Speaker 1: He's a Sage Lake Crackers.
Speaker 2: Crazy shit. Here, we will see you, Toms the Gunner.
Speaker 2: Welcome to hang out. Welcome to the Just Baseball Show.
Speaker 2: It is Tuesday, February fifteenth, and I'm joined with arm
Speaker 2: Leyton and Ethan Bodowski. We have a couple of things
Speaker 2: to go over before we play general manager with the
Speaker 2: Miami Marlins, and I have two perfect people to deal with.
Speaker 2: Arm comes from Lockdown Marlins, He's always been a Marlins
Speaker 2: Miami and of course Ethan Bodowski writes for Just Baseball
Speaker 2: dot Com covering the Marlins. What's up boys? Post Super Bowl?
Speaker 2: I am not feeling great. I just came back from Vegas.
Speaker 2: As you could probably hear it in my voice, but
Speaker 2: my rams won the freaking Super Bowl. How you guys
Speaker 2: doing there? You go, Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3: I'm better and worse than you, right, Like, we're about
Speaker 3: to talk about the team that we grew up watching
Speaker 3: that has not won a World Series since our brains
Speaker 3: really can remember anything, which is you know, two thousand
Speaker 3: Like my memory starts a two thousand and five and on.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you just got a Super Bowl.
Speaker 3: Our football team that we grew up being a fan
Speaker 3: of is also in shambles. It's bad across the board
Speaker 3: except for basketball. So I was gonna ask you, have
Speaker 3: you ever seen two Marlins fans in the same place.
Speaker 2: It's very rare. It's very rare because I mean, like, generally,
Speaker 2: how many Marlins fans are there? But Ethan, how are you? Brother?
Speaker 2: It's doing good. It's Valentine's Day. We're recording on Valentine's
Speaker 2: Day to post tomorrow. Ethan's got a Valentine's dinner after
Speaker 2: Jack McMullen is not here. He's talking, you know, with
Speaker 2: his beautiful girlfriend, while arm and I, you know, we're
Speaker 2: talking Marlins. And that's that's our beautiful co hosts reading
Speaker 2: up for dinner.
Speaker 4: Afterwards, you two going taking out to each other out
Speaker 4: to a romantic dinner. No, I had to make sure
Speaker 4: to get the pod in and then Valentine's Day come
Speaker 4: after the pod. We all know how the priority sly,
Speaker 4: But no, I thought the game was really good last night.
Speaker 4: I really haven't been able to stop thinking about Aaron
Speaker 4: Donald making that final play sealing the deal, just how
Speaker 4: poetic the whole thing was. The Rams are really lovable champion.
Speaker 4: It's the first year in a while i've actually enjoyed
Speaker 4: a Super Bowl because Brady wasn't in it and I
Speaker 4: could just kind of sit back and relax and enjoy.
Speaker 4: But I'm itching now that football is over. I'm really
Speaker 4: itching for some baseball. I'm really This morning, I like
Speaker 4: thought about baseball and I was like, wow, I need
Speaker 4: any kind of fixing I can get. So I was
Speaker 4: really happy when he sent me a text today to
Speaker 4: come on and talk some talk some balls.
Speaker 2: So wish we could have the classic. It's baseball season
Speaker 2: as soon as the Super Bowl ends. But of course
Speaker 2: we are still in a lockout. But we I feel
Speaker 2: like just baseball, we kind of pretend it's not happening,
Speaker 2: and we just still go through our predictions because we
Speaker 2: don't care. We know a season's going to happen. What
Speaker 2: is you guys feeling right now when it comes to
Speaker 2: the lockout? Do you are them? Do you think that
Speaker 2: we're going to start April first? Opening Day? Like if
Speaker 2: I gave you a line over under one hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty one and a half games played this year, are
Speaker 2: you taking the over or the under over?
Speaker 3: I'm still like I'm the optimist here, and I think
Speaker 3: you know people people might laugh sometimes without optimistic I've
Speaker 3: been about it, but even like with the move Saturday,
Speaker 3: I think each side is incrementally starting to get closer
Speaker 3: to where they need to be, and it's just a
Speaker 3: matter of timing. I think we're going to see spring
Speaker 3: training delayed, but I don't think the season will be impacted.
Speaker 3: Like they're going to get to where they need to go,
Speaker 3: and it's the closer we get to it, the more
Speaker 3: we'll see both sides give. I think we'll see the
Speaker 3: players give the most we've seen so far on the
Speaker 3: next you know, return off or from them.
Speaker 2: Ethan, what do you think over under one sixty one
Speaker 2: and a half?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I a few weeks ago, like, I
Speaker 4: was talking to a buddy of mine and I said,
Speaker 4: you know, I think that the worst case scenario was
Speaker 4: that they play one hundred and fifty games. And maybe
Speaker 4: I'm a bit skeptical, but I'm starting to think that
Speaker 4: might be best case scenario at this point. I understand
Speaker 4: that all they would really have to do is kind
Speaker 4: of cut spring training down, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: How happy the league is going to be about that.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think spring training can be cut down anyway,
Speaker 4: but I don't know I really like there's that you know,
Speaker 4: these talks are moving really slowly, and I feel like
Speaker 4: eventually maybe they'll hit a point where things kind of
Speaker 4: speed up. But I definitely think we're in for at
Speaker 4: least a spring training delay. I mean, you know that
Speaker 4: that seems to be where we're headed. I mean, pitchers
Speaker 4: and catchers were supposed to report this week, I think,
Speaker 4: and you know, here we are obviously, so I you know,
Speaker 4: I wish that I felt better about it, because I
Speaker 4: would love to be down in Jupiter, you know, hanging
Speaker 4: out with with my reporter friends and with Jezishem and
Speaker 4: the guys. But unfortunately, you know, I'm not sure when
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be able to head down there because you know,
Speaker 4: they're they're the owners are taking their sweet time, that's
Speaker 4: for sure, and they are the ones that are you know,
Speaker 4: it's them doing it and they're taking their sweet old time.
Speaker 4: So I'm pretty fed up. But we're gonna play baseball,
Speaker 4: you know. I mean some people are like, we're not
Speaker 4: gonna have a season at all. We'll play baseball, and
Speaker 4: we'll play baseball before before the All Star break for sure.
Speaker 4: Like you know, if anything, I think it'll kind of
Speaker 4: leak into April, but I think that's the worst case.
Speaker 2: I would take the over one sixty one and a half.
Speaker 2: I do think that we're gonna play all one sixty two.
Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, with the COVID shortened season,
Speaker 2: the amount of money that was lost, they're just gonna
Speaker 2: lose out on so much money and just fan engagement
Speaker 2: because we actually don't play all one sixty two, it's
Speaker 2: gonna be horrific for the league, really bad, look, really badly.
Speaker 2: And I'm also wondering if this might because you know,
Speaker 2: you guys know there have been talks for years and
Speaker 2: years and years about shortening the season, maybe to one
Speaker 2: hundred and forty four games, possibly one hundred and fifty games.
Speaker 2: I'm curious to arm, do you think that if we,
Speaker 2: let's say we do only play one hundred and fifty games,
Speaker 2: do you think it could possibly set some sort of
Speaker 2: president moving forward that says, hey, maybe the season should
Speaker 2: be shortened a little bit.
Speaker 3: You know, It's funny we saw we saw MLB use
Speaker 3: the COVID situation to cut the draft down because that
Speaker 3: was something MLB always wanted and it was an opportunity
Speaker 3: to cut it to five and now we're back to
Speaker 3: twenty and we haven't really bumped up from twenty. So
Speaker 3: I could see in a situation where if the season
Speaker 3: was cut short that it could open the floodgates a
Speaker 3: little bit. And I think that's another reason why the
Speaker 3: players are gonna have a little bit more urgency here
Speaker 3: to just get to one sixty two, because I still
Speaker 3: think they prefer, you know, the one sixty two. As
Speaker 3: crazy as that sounds, it's more money for them, So
Speaker 3: I think we'll have it happen. But yeah, if we
Speaker 3: see the season cut down, I think there's there's a
Speaker 3: scenario where you know, they'll say, hey, why don't this
Speaker 3: worked out?
Speaker 2: Fine?
Speaker 3: Like why do't why don't we try this and just
Speaker 3: expand the playoffs instead, which you know, I think definitely
Speaker 3: favors the owners with how much money the postseason brings in.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So, Ethan, what do you think, what do you
Speaker 2: think about that? Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean I think that fans, you know, kind of
Speaker 4: drive obviously, they're the drivers of interested in the game, right,
Speaker 4: And if fans are fed up with one sixty two
Speaker 4: and they go down to one fifty, maybe like a
Speaker 4: one forty five number or something like that, and all
Speaker 4: of a sudden, the fans all get really excited about
Speaker 4: it and feel like it's a little better. But at
Speaker 4: the same time, you know, that's in the grand scheme
Speaker 4: of things. It's only you know, if you go down
Speaker 4: to one fifty, it's only like a week and a
Speaker 4: half of baseball.
Speaker 1: Like, that's not that much of a difference to the season,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: So I think fans are just going to kind of
Speaker 4: be like, we can do with the extra week and
Speaker 4: a half of baseball.
Speaker 2: It's not a big deal.
Speaker 4: But I'm an advocate for why would you want the
Speaker 4: season to end? You know, people always explain about games
Speaker 4: being long? Why do you want games to be long?
Speaker 4: Who cares if the super Bowl runs four hours? Why
Speaker 4: do you want the super Bowl to be over?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: So, yeah, I just feel like that one sixty two number,
Speaker 4: that's how it is, and it's a good you know, it's.
Speaker 2: You don't have to watch them all long.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't have to know, no one, no one's
Speaker 3: making you watch them by it right, exactly?
Speaker 1: But oh we watch them all though.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but exactly, we don't have to what would do yeah,
Speaker 3: watch take mondays off?
Speaker 2: Take Mondays off? Whatever. But let's gentlemen, we have two
Speaker 2: of the best Miami minds that I could find. So
Speaker 2: let's play general manager with the Miami Marlins. And first
Speaker 2: I want to give you guys the sixty second rundown
Speaker 2: of the twenty twenty one season and then we'll break
Speaker 2: straight into it. So the Miami Marlins open up the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one season with a seventy four and a
Speaker 2: half win projection. They just came off a playoff berth
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, which was the first time they made
Speaker 2: the playoffs since they won the championship in two thousand
Speaker 2: and three, but they underperformed in twenty twenty one. They
Speaker 2: finished fourth place in the NLE East with a sixty
Speaker 2: seven and ninety five record. The offense was the big
Speaker 2: issue here. The team finished with the second fewest runs
Speaker 2: scored and tied for twenty sixth in WRC plus. Although
Speaker 2: the team offense wasn't very strong, we did see encouraging
Speaker 2: performances from rookie Jazz Chisolm and Hayesu's Sanchez, but the
Speaker 2: pitching is what is starting to get people really excited.
Speaker 2: They finished eleventh in THERA and eighth and FIP as
Speaker 2: a staff behind young studs like Sandy Alkintara and NL
Speaker 2: rookie the year runner up Trevor Rodgers. Pablo Lopez has
Speaker 2: also really established himself as a very strong three even
Speaker 2: though he just threw over one hundred innings. The Marlins
Speaker 2: bullpen was strong as well. They finished seventh in the
Speaker 2: ERA and sixth and fifth behind the performances of Dylan Floro,
Speaker 2: Richard Bleier, and Anthony Bender. It's a steep climb to
Speaker 2: the playoffs, especially in a division that as the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one World Series champion Braves and the Mets adding
Speaker 2: Max Scherzer. But with a few big moves, we could
Speaker 2: see the Martlins enter the conversation in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: So before we get into a lot of the moves
Speaker 2: that we think the Marlins should make after the lockout
Speaker 2: is finished, let's go through a lot of the moves
Speaker 2: that they've done so so far. Maybe give it a grade,
Speaker 2: talk about it kind of briefly, and then we'll get
Speaker 2: into some roster construction and we'll play the role of
Speaker 2: Kim Nang so arm, What is your favorite move that
Speaker 2: the Marlins have made this offseason so far?
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you asked me favorite and not least favorite,
Speaker 3: because there are two.
Speaker 2: There's two.
Speaker 3: There's there's a great move, there's a bad move, and
Speaker 3: there's a move in the middle.
Speaker 2: So thank you for the great one.
Speaker 3: I'll go with you, Jacob Stallings, that that move is
Speaker 3: just it was so good for the Marlins. And we
Speaker 3: had talked about, you know, Wilson Contreras or you know,
Speaker 3: a bunch of other really more offensive minded catchers, and yeah,
Speaker 3: I could definitely get behind the offensive boost and maximizing
Speaker 3: the production anyway possible. But what I'm really excited about
Speaker 3: with Stallings is he's the best defensive catcher in baseball
Speaker 3: right now, and you know, he's unbelievable framer didn't have
Speaker 3: a single pass ball. I mean the kind of confidence
Speaker 3: that that's going to give guys like Jesus Wizardo. And
Speaker 3: then also the advantage that it gives a Sandy al
Speaker 3: Contra when you're still more strikes from him at the
Speaker 3: bottom of the zone with those sinkers stealing strikes for
Speaker 3: Trevor Rodgers. And remember this is not just bringing in Stallings,
Speaker 3: it's taking what is the biggest dumpster fire of a
Speaker 3: catcher situation and bringing in Jacob Stallings, Right, so you're
Speaker 3: taking the worst defensive catcher in baseball, arguably in Jorgel Farro,
Speaker 3: and bringing in Stallings. Then you're taking a situation where
Speaker 3: you look at Stallings ninety five WRC plus, people would
Speaker 3: be like, oh, that's five percent below average, but catching
Speaker 3: position in baseball was eighty nine WRC plus, so he's
Speaker 3: actually about five percent above average. And then compounding that,
Speaker 3: the Marlins got a sixty three WRC plus from their
Speaker 3: catching position last year, so think about that, they get
Speaker 3: a thirty two percent bump essentially your thirty plus percent
Speaker 3: bump to their catching position in offensive just production.
Speaker 2: That's massive.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is going to be a boost that
Speaker 3: really transcends whatever you're going to see in the advanced
Speaker 3: statistics and anything like that, because it's from where they
Speaker 3: were to where they are. I think it's just going
Speaker 3: to be such a big difference. And they didn't give
Speaker 3: up that much.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I love Kyle Nicholas. I'm a big Colin Nicholas fan.
Speaker 3: Just had him on the call up. He's a great prospect.
Speaker 3: But the Marlins have a million pitchers. Zach Thompson's a
Speaker 3: good back end you know, big league starter, I think,
Speaker 3: but again, they don't need him, and Connor Scott is
Speaker 3: probably a fourth outfielder.
Speaker 4: So I was I was great. I was very happy
Speaker 4: with that move. First of all, I like your restraint
Speaker 4: on talking about Connor Scott, because I know you and
Speaker 4: I have talked about him a lot. But I like
Speaker 4: your restraint there. No, I you know, I'm gonna go
Speaker 4: before I get to what I think was my best move.
Speaker 4: I'll talk about Stallings for a second, which is I
Speaker 4: was one of those people advocate. I was the biggest
Speaker 4: advocate for sing Conturres because my philosophy on baseball is
Speaker 4: score as many runs as possible. Who gives a shit
Speaker 4: about defense sometimes, But at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: Stallings will be the best defensive catcher. And like Arham said,
Speaker 4: you know, going from watching Sandy Leone and Jorgel Farrow
Speaker 4: and whoever else they were thrown out there at the
Speaker 4: plate to watching Jacob Stallings will still be a massive improvement.
Speaker 4: Even if he's not the greatest offensive catcher that we've
Speaker 4: ever seen. Ninety five way to runs great A plus
Speaker 4: is more than enough for what he's going to provide defensively.
Speaker 1: So I kind of was sour on the move at first.
Speaker 4: Because I really thought they should move for Contraras.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, it is a
Speaker 2: really good move for them.
Speaker 4: But for me, it's not an addition that they made
Speaker 4: that's the best move of the off season.
Speaker 1: It was locking up Sandy al Contra.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: This guy is a certified ace. I mean, he what
Speaker 4: he did last year. He put himself as you know,
Speaker 4: everybody's sexy pick is a dark horse to win Cy Young.
Speaker 4: Win the Cy Young next year. This guy's a force
Speaker 4: on the hill. You know, went out there. He told
Speaker 4: us before the season. You know, I was in those
Speaker 4: spring training press conferences and he talked about two hundred innings,
Speaker 4: two hundred innings. I want to throw two hundred innings,
Speaker 4: and he left no doubt about it.
Speaker 1: You know, he was going seven eight nine strong.
Speaker 4: There were games he lost a game where he lost
Speaker 4: a complete game because it was nothing, nothing, and he
Speaker 4: let up a run with two outs in the eighth inning.
Speaker 4: He threw a two thirds and loss. So yeah, that
Speaker 4: was the kind of season it was for the Marlins
Speaker 4: this year. But he was just stunning. And I really
Speaker 4: think as much as they went in on avasjol Garcia,
Speaker 4: they went in on Stallings, they went in on Wendel.
Speaker 4: They're probably going to do more business after the break,
Speaker 4: you know, after the lockout. I think the biggest thing
Speaker 4: that says that, okay, like we're actually trying to win here,
Speaker 4: for me at least, was locking up Sandy and saying
Speaker 4: that this is this is going to be our guy
Speaker 4: for five seven, you know how, or many years of
Speaker 4: control they have him for now, and we're going to
Speaker 4: build our team around him. Because they've made it clear
Speaker 4: they're going to build a team around pitching. And I
Speaker 4: think it's a good strategy because they've shown that they're
Speaker 4: just going to keep replenishing. You know, like, yes, trading
Speaker 4: Kyle Nicholas for a lot of organizations that would be
Speaker 4: a loss, but they're just gonna keep drafting.
Speaker 1: They're going to keep signing.
Speaker 4: I fase they're going to keep and and they they've
Speaker 4: shown they can do it. Nobody should doubt their ability
Speaker 4: to develop pitching because they're going to do it well.
Speaker 4: So their organization be based on pitching. This is one
Speaker 4: of the brightest young starters in the National League. I
Speaker 4: think that was a huge vote of conf you know,
Speaker 4: the fans should feel very confident about what they did
Speaker 4: in terms of this was a big move to say
Speaker 4: we actually are trying to win here. They have to
Speaker 4: make a lot of other moves before they win. A
Speaker 4: lot of the fan base back over. I know that
Speaker 4: for sure, and you know, all reports are that they're
Speaker 4: still going to be busy following the lockout. But I
Speaker 4: thought that was a really big first step. And after
Speaker 4: that it was followed by trading for Stallings, signing Garcia,
Speaker 4: trading for Wendel, which I thought were three good additions.
Speaker 1: They could have made better ones, but I think they
Speaker 1: will in the future.
Speaker 4: So I think it kind of kicked off their off
Speaker 4: season and I think that was the thing that was
Speaker 4: at the top of their priority list, and then offense
Speaker 4: comes next, and so I think that.
Speaker 1: Was the best move they made so far.
Speaker 2: And I love Sandy. I mean you you guys have
Speaker 2: heard me blush about them. He was one of the
Speaker 2: four pitchers last year to throw over to her one
Speaker 2: hundred innings. I mean, his fastballs electric, He's just got moxie.
Speaker 2: And I say it about guys specifically because when I
Speaker 2: see it, I see it, and he's one of those guys.
Speaker 2: We talked about it briefly. But another great move that
Speaker 2: the Marlins made, non tendering Lewis Brinson and trading Orgil Farrow, that.
Speaker 4: Was moving on. That was I couldn't believe they pulled
Speaker 4: that off. And the way they pulled that off is
Speaker 4: because I don't know if they planted Curvelli and the
Speaker 4: Padres organization so that they could tell get him to
Speaker 4: convince whatever. I don't know how they pulled it off
Speaker 4: even for I think it was like a player to
Speaker 4: be named later, but.
Speaker 2: I don't care what his name is. It was a
Speaker 2: good trade and again moving right exactly really good enough. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Theres got a really good left fielder and shot and.
Speaker 4: Moorhel who knows, who knows what he what kind of
Speaker 4: potential he is, But I mean, yeah, just moving on
Speaker 4: from those guys was enough. And and just even getting
Speaker 4: competency at the plate at the catcher position and should
Speaker 4: provide a big boost to the offense because that eight spot,
Speaker 4: I mean, it was ugly this year. It was ugly,
Speaker 4: and it made a lot of their games. They were
Speaker 4: not a very watchable product this year. It was really
Speaker 4: hard to watch them at times when Sandy wasn't pitching,
Speaker 4: or when Trevor wasn't pitching, it was really hard to watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there are some positives, and we just went
Speaker 2: over some positives. But again, there are some negatives in arum.
Speaker 2: There has been one specific deal that you really really
Speaker 2: don't like, like not even a little bit. What is
Speaker 2: that move?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm I'm like probably a little bit too
Speaker 3: much of a complainer on the avy Garcia deal, just
Speaker 3: because four years fifty three million like to most to you, Peter,
Speaker 3: like you'd probably be like, Okay, that's fine whatever.
Speaker 2: Like it's the Yankees, I wouldn't care.
Speaker 3: You don't care about four fifty three, but four fifty
Speaker 3: three for the Marlins wild too.
Speaker 2: It's a long time. It's a long time.
Speaker 3: And avy Garcia has never produced back to back seasons
Speaker 3: of a WRC plus above one hundred. He's only had
Speaker 3: two seasons with an OPS over eight hundred. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of concerning metrics. The one thing that I will
Speaker 3: say that is encouraging is that he didn't benefit from
Speaker 3: Milwaukee as much as people would think. Like you look
Speaker 3: at the numbers and you like conventional thinking would be, oh,
Speaker 3: we got the boost from what used to be Miller
Speaker 3: Park and now is an American family field. In fact, though
Speaker 3: if you look at the splits, they're consistent. If you
Speaker 3: look at Baseball Savants expected home runs, twenty six of
Speaker 3: his twenty nine homers would have been gone at Marlins Park.
Speaker 3: That is encouraging. So maybe the Marlins really feel like
Speaker 3: he figured something out. The exit vgos were the higher,
Speaker 3: the highest they've ever been. There's a lot of good
Speaker 3: things there to point towards him maybe being closer to
Speaker 3: what he was last year. I just think four years
Speaker 3: fifty three, with what's still out there in the market,
Speaker 3: how much more money would have Nick Casiano spent. And
Speaker 3: I'm not the most excited in the world about the
Speaker 3: idea of Nick casianas, but he's more proven, I think
Speaker 3: than Garcia and the Miami guy. Yeah, and he's he's
Speaker 3: a South Florida guy like how And remember that the
Speaker 3: Marlins were a team that in twenty nineteen when Avi
Speaker 3: Garcia signed for two years twenty million, I believe they
Speaker 3: were priced out. They preferred to go seventeen and a
Speaker 3: half million to Corey Dickerson, and all the reports were
Speaker 3: the Marlins dock Garcia was a bit too steep So
Speaker 3: how was he a bit too steep there? I know
Speaker 3: he had a huge season which kind of changed things,
Speaker 3: but did he really double more than double his value,
Speaker 3: almost triple his value from the last time you saw
Speaker 3: him in twenty nineteen. Like to me, it reeks of
Speaker 3: a little bit of desperation, And I agree the Marlins
Speaker 3: are desperate, but I don't know if this move made
Speaker 3: sense pre lockout.
Speaker 2: They could have waited. Post lockout.
Speaker 3: Garcia probably still would have been there, and Cassianos Confordo,
Speaker 3: like you got a lot of dudes out there, Schwarber
Speaker 3: that I.
Speaker 2: Think are all in that ballpark.
Speaker 3: Casiano's probably closer to seventy five to eighty, but still,
Speaker 3: I mean, I think they're all still in that realm.
Speaker 2: And it was a little bit of a force.
Speaker 3: But no matter, what makes the offense better, And that's
Speaker 3: the thing I'm trying to, you know, keep my eyes on, right,
Speaker 3: is the offense is better, But it really depends on
Speaker 3: what they do next.
Speaker 2: And I think another oh no, sorry, I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: say another move that they made, and I want you
Speaker 2: again to touch on the Avasil Garcia signing, But another
Speaker 2: move they made four more offense was acquiring Joey Wendell
Speaker 2: from the Tampa Bay Rays in exchange for outfield prospect
Speaker 2: Cameron Meisner, and you know, on at least Marlin's Twitter
Speaker 2: where I was just tracking it, it seemed like an
Speaker 2: okay move to me. But we've also talked about Cameron
Speaker 2: Meiser as a guy who has a lot of upside
Speaker 2: and it feels like, you know, if he goes over
Speaker 2: to Tampa, they might turn him into Willie Mays or
Speaker 2: something like that. But yeah, that's so give me your
Speaker 2: thoughts on the Avasil Garcia and then of course the
Speaker 2: Joey Wendele I position.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll start with Aviseo because I just don't want
Speaker 4: to forget what I was thinking about, which is that
Speaker 4: Aram mentioned it. Yes, it's a little bit of desperation,
Speaker 4: but the Marlins are desperate, and selfishly, as a person
Speaker 4: who watches a lot of you know, covers the team,
Speaker 4: I want to see more offense and I can't watch
Speaker 4: that same kind of offense last year, And so personally,
Speaker 4: you know, I think that if they're going to overpay
Speaker 4: a little bit for offense, it's not the worst thing
Speaker 4: in the world because they need it so desperately. You know,
Speaker 4: and and I think that it also kind of signals
Speaker 4: to the fans, hey, we're willing to spend a little
Speaker 4: bit more than we might have to if this is
Speaker 4: gonna make the offense better. So I think it was
Speaker 4: a fairly good move. I think they could have gone better,
Speaker 4: Like I was. I'm a big Castianos advocate. Who knows
Speaker 4: if they still go out and get Castianos when the
Speaker 4: lockout is over. But on the Wendel deal, yeah, you
Speaker 4: know a lot of people like really freaked out about
Speaker 4: trading Meisner and trading Meisner to Tampa and specific specifically,
Speaker 4: you can't be afraid of trading guys to the race,
Speaker 4: Like you just can't, Like it's so stupid, Like the
Speaker 4: Rays win every trade until they don't, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, Like they didn't win the Jake cron and
Speaker 4: Work trade. They trade great Jake crone Worth. He's a
Speaker 4: great player. So they're they're they're gonna trade good players.
Speaker 4: They're gonna acquire players that you might not think are
Speaker 4: very good and turn them into good players. But they
Speaker 4: also might not. And you can't afraid of trading with
Speaker 4: an organization if it's going to make your team better.
Speaker 4: And Wendell makes the team better.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: You know, Meisner look had a really good finish to
Speaker 4: last season. I'm pretty high on him, but a lot
Speaker 4: of question marks. There a lot of question marks, and
Speaker 4: they have outfield talent ahead of him. They're going to
Speaker 4: sign outfield talent. It looks like that's where they really
Speaker 4: look to be upgrading. And the thing that Wendell does
Speaker 4: is in the same way that Stallings Bumps Leone and
Speaker 4: whoever else was hidden in catcher position. But yeah, I
Speaker 4: just think Wendell makes their lineup a lot deeper and
Speaker 4: adds that depth that you're looking for. You know, it's
Speaker 4: going to be a huge boost to them to have
Speaker 4: him filling up, filling in when Jazz has some bumps
Speaker 4: and bruises, when Rojas has some bumps and bruises, which
Speaker 4: happened a few times this year. You know, Rojas played
Speaker 4: through an injured finger for a lot of the year
Speaker 4: because you know, he's he's the man, and he knew
Speaker 4: that if he would out not out there, what was
Speaker 4: behind him basically, and so you know, having Wendell fill in,
Speaker 4: I just think it it was a nice I was
Speaker 4: it was unexpected totally. I didn't expect them. I was
Speaker 4: hoping that they would add in field depth. I thought
Speaker 4: that a guy like Josh Harrison would be a really
Speaker 4: nice signing for them.
Speaker 2: But this is basically like signing Josh Harrison.
Speaker 4: You know, maybe Harrison's a little bit better offensively, But
Speaker 4: I like this pick up a lot for them because
Speaker 4: it just they need depth, Like they need that.
Speaker 2: Bottom of the roster to really improve.
Speaker 4: It got gave them nothing last year, Like the bottom
Speaker 4: of the roster. That gave them anything was Brian day
Speaker 4: La Cruz because he became the starting center fielder after
Speaker 4: the deadline. That was all they really got, like from
Speaker 4: a position you know, below off the bench or anything.
Speaker 2: So I think that.
Speaker 4: Really, if you know this is this is a good move.
Speaker 4: He was so versatile with the Rays. He's gonna be
Speaker 4: very versatile off the bench for them. And it's just
Speaker 4: making the team better and doing things to make the
Speaker 4: team better and having to pay a price, right, like Meisner,
Speaker 4: that's a pretty high price all things considered, but they're
Speaker 4: again they're willing to pay that price. That should encourage
Speaker 4: Marlins fans because I'm done with prospect hugging. I'm done
Speaker 4: with it. I know, we love our prospects on the show.
Speaker 4: I've been doing it for too long and it's time
Speaker 4: to start making some moves.
Speaker 1: And I like them being aggressive here.
Speaker 2: And I feel like that sentiment is pretty shared across
Speaker 2: Marlins fans. Arm do you think the price for Wende
Speaker 2: was too high or no?
Speaker 3: I think it's a really good question because I think
Speaker 3: these two things can be mutually exclusive, which was it's
Speaker 3: weird that they decided to trade a bat right, Like,
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I would way rather
Speaker 3: trade any arm aside from the premiere arms. So if
Speaker 3: we're talking like middling, but I think it was Meisner
Speaker 3: or like a Dax Fulton, right, And at that point,
Speaker 3: Dax Fulton's nineteen lefty really dynamic, has more upside. You're
Speaker 3: probably going to opt keep Fulton even though you have
Speaker 3: more arms. Judging by the way the Rays are they
Speaker 3: love athletic outfielders. I'm guessing that for them it was like,
Speaker 3: if you're not going to trade us one of your
Speaker 3: main guys, we want Meisner and there's not much else
Speaker 3: we want. And I'm assuming they probably asked about Berdick
Speaker 3: and Burdick was a no go. So the Marlins didn't
Speaker 3: have that much wiggle room outside of there. And if
Speaker 3: they're like, you want to upgrade your infield, you want
Speaker 3: to get a guy that is as impactful as Wendel, like,
Speaker 3: you got to give something up, and we don't really
Speaker 3: want any of your middle of the pack arms. We
Speaker 3: don't really want any of those guys. So I'm assuming
Speaker 3: that's kind of how it went down. And unfortunately sometimes
Speaker 3: you got to give to get. And that's why I'm
Speaker 3: okay if you're upgrading the big league roster. To me,
Speaker 3: there's no price that's too ridiculous, unless obviously it's the
Speaker 3: craziest lopside to trade.
Speaker 2: Ever.
Speaker 3: I would have preferred to go with an arm, but
Speaker 3: I can understand how things shake out. You have to go,
Speaker 3: you know, with a bat there, and Meisner is extremely volatile,
Speaker 3: wide range of outcomes, and you know, we could see
Speaker 3: anything happening. But as Ethan said, to get the boost
Speaker 3: there I think is huge. One of the thing that
Speaker 3: I think is really interesting though, is I don't think
Speaker 3: the Marlins part with Cameron Meisner unless the plan is
Speaker 3: for Joey Wendall to get four hundred and fifty plus
Speaker 3: play appearances. And I really do wonder what this means
Speaker 3: for Brian Anderson's long term future. I do have a
Speaker 3: question as to whether this means. It doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 3: next year could be the year after that. I'm just
Speaker 3: saying I think that there is some questions there. Kim
Speaker 3: Ang has been very noncommittal about Brian Anderson. We know
Speaker 3: that his camp has not been thrilled about that. That's
Speaker 3: been reported by Craig Mission, the Miami Herold and Barry Jackson. Like,
Speaker 3: I don't think anything's bad with their relationship, but I
Speaker 3: don't think things are rosy and clear, and I don't
Speaker 3: think I think they've discussed an extension, right, So I
Speaker 3: would venture to say that I don't think Wendell is
Speaker 3: for sure not going to start there. Like I think
Speaker 3: you could get a lot of run at third base,
Speaker 3: and I think we could see him rotating all over,
Speaker 3: but I wouldn't be surprised. So I think it's going
Speaker 3: to be a really interesting thing. But one other thought
Speaker 3: on Wendell real quick, guys, because I think you're going
Speaker 3: to find this really interesting, and this is in the
Speaker 3: piece that I'm put that would be out by the
Speaker 3: time you're listening to this on Just Baseball dot Com.
Speaker 3: About what to look for for them. Mar On on
Speaker 3: the other side of the lockout, You guys, remember what
Speaker 3: happened with Willia Domas post trade about just how bad
Speaker 3: he was at trop and how he blew up and
Speaker 3: how he just started raking, which again is kind of
Speaker 3: a trade where the Rays didn't really come out winners.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Joey Wendell last year at Tropic Cannafield two fifteen, two
Speaker 3: seventy three, three point fifteen two home runs a sixty
Speaker 3: nine WRC plus. Joey Wendell on the Road three eleven,
Speaker 3: three sixty one five nineteen nine home runs a one
Speaker 3: thirty eight WRC plus. We know that some players are
Speaker 3: really impacted by Tropic Cannafield.
Speaker 2: I mean Willia Domas was trying.
Speaker 3: To to play with with uh, like weird lenses that
Speaker 3: would like change the light for him.
Speaker 2: Joey Wendle can be even remotely close to that road.
Speaker 3: Joey Wendell like, that's that's a guy that needs to
Speaker 3: be playing a lot, like four days a week.
Speaker 2: I love that. The Only problem is in Miami at least.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a it's a grave yard. It's just
Speaker 2: such an enormous park. So it's not like he's going
Speaker 2: from Tampa Bay to Milwaukee where it's incredibly easy to hit.
Speaker 2: He's going into another really tough pitchers park. So before
Speaker 2: excuse me, you can just hear it in my voice.
Speaker 2: I'm still invasive mode. I'm yeah. So if I'm just
Speaker 2: saying stupid shit, it's because I've averaged three hours of
Speaker 2: sleep for the last four nights. So bear with me here.
Speaker 2: Need a little bit of a cough, But I'm back
Speaker 2: and we're talking baseball again. Before we get in and
Speaker 2: start playing Kim Nang's role as the general manager and
Speaker 2: start making some additions to this team, I want to
Speaker 2: check the pulse of Kim Nang's checkbook because the Marlins
Speaker 2: have came out and said that they want to spend.
Speaker 2: But it doesn't make a lot of sense for us
Speaker 2: to be like, oh, yeah, the Marlins will give Carlos
Speaker 2: kra three hundred million dollars because you know they could
Speaker 2: need an upgrade short But they did extend Miguel Rojas
Speaker 2: two years ten million, so that's probably gonna be the
Speaker 2: starting short stop in twenty twenty two. But give me
Speaker 2: some kind of arm, give me some expectations for this
Speaker 2: offseason after the lockout, Like, how much money do you
Speaker 2: think Kim NaN's gonna spend?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, that's the other thing is it seems like
Speaker 3: they've got another Avey Garcia type deal in them, which
Speaker 3: is fascinating to me because I'd almost rather go big
Speaker 3: on one deal and then trade for another. Seems like
Speaker 3: they're kicking the tires on a Schwarber, they're kicking the
Speaker 3: tires on a Castianos, but are prepared to be priced
Speaker 3: out of those deals. So that kind of tells me
Speaker 3: they're looking forty to fifty million range. I'm more of
Speaker 3: the belief of making an impact trade for a bat
Speaker 3: and then maybe just spending a little extra on the bullpen.
Speaker 3: I'm not normally a big proponent of spending on the bullpen,
Speaker 3: but if you go trade for a bat, maybe you
Speaker 3: go give Kenley Jansen two years thirty five million dollars.
Speaker 3: That's that's palatable if you don't really spend elsewhere. And
Speaker 3: I mean, Jansen's numbers were insane last year. We'll get
Speaker 3: to the bullpen, but I think you're in a weird
Speaker 3: middling range right now, and it would only really make
Speaker 3: sense if they were ponying up for Marte unless it's
Speaker 3: Schwarber or maybe Castianos. I don't really see a reason
Speaker 3: for them to stretch themselves out because I think they're
Speaker 3: going to be really in that forty to sixty million range.
Speaker 3: I don't see them going any further than that.
Speaker 2: You know, I had a lot of people that advocated.
Speaker 4: I saw a lot of people advocating for signing a
Speaker 4: guy like Seeger Correa, you know, one of the bigger
Speaker 4: names on the market that was never in play, that
Speaker 4: never should have really been in play.
Speaker 2: Like I don't think that.
Speaker 4: The Texas Rangers are gonna suddenly be like a great
Speaker 4: team because they threw a bunch of money at Seeger
Speaker 4: and Simon, you know what I mean. Like, I don't
Speaker 4: necessarily think the Tigers are going to be a great
Speaker 4: team because they're suddenly they have Hobby or Bayaz, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean. Like they're basically the Tiger I
Speaker 4: think they they sign who Rodriguez, thank you? Like, I
Speaker 4: don't think that they're any better. They're basically the Tigers
Speaker 4: from last year with Hobby Bayaz and Eduardo Rodriguez.
Speaker 2: Right, So, I don't you know, if if.
Speaker 4: The Marlins spend all their money in one place, they're
Speaker 4: basically the Marlins from last year with Seeger or with
Speaker 4: Carreer or with whoever, right, But they do have, like
Speaker 4: Arham mentioned, trade pieces, and so I think that they
Speaker 4: you know, I think they're gonna make one more big
Speaker 4: free agent signing and and I guess we'll get, I'll
Speaker 4: get I'll save for later who I think it's gonna be.
Speaker 4: And and but they could make another trade. They totally could.
Speaker 4: I mean when I when I yeah, I think they
Speaker 4: will too. When I came into the off season, you know,
Speaker 4: my ideal off season for them was I think it
Speaker 4: was like trade for uh contrarast signed Casiano's trade for
Speaker 4: or like trade for Reynolds. I think they can get
Speaker 4: too impact outfielders via trade or via free agency they
Speaker 4: already got. I think, you know, Sao might not be
Speaker 4: the biggest name, but I think he's gonna be an
Speaker 4: impact outfielder for them, and then they can still do
Speaker 4: it through trade or free agency. And I think this
Speaker 4: goes to Arm's point that he just made a little
Speaker 4: while ago. I've been making this point all day with
Speaker 4: the Rams, and this is a bit of a weird comparison,
Speaker 4: but I think it holds steady. There's no price that
Speaker 4: you shouldn't pay for upgrading quarterback right The Rams just
Speaker 4: showed that up with upgrading Matt Stafford. There's no price
Speaker 4: that the Marlins right now should not pay to significantly
Speaker 4: upgrade their offense. And whether that's be a trade going
Speaker 4: and getting a guy like Brian Reynolds catel Marte, you know,
Speaker 4: unless you're like literally auctioning off your future and trading
Speaker 4: like Uri and Max and Salas and Watson all in
Speaker 4: one deal, then there is no price this team should
Speaker 4: not pay to really upgrade this offense. Because I do
Speaker 4: think that with this pitching staff, they're that close to
Speaker 4: being a playoff contender. Maybe not necessarily a World Series contender,
Speaker 4: because they'll have to make a bunch of refinements down
Speaker 4: the roster, but if they just add a little bit
Speaker 4: more offense, they're knocking on the playoff door for sure.
Speaker 4: And it's only going to take one or two more
Speaker 4: acquisitions after the deadline to get them there.
Speaker 2: And I was going to ask you guys, all right,
Speaker 2: so where are the positions of need? Where should we attack?
Speaker 2: And it's fairly obvious we're attacking this offense. They don't
Speaker 2: need to add a starting pitcher. They've got like nine
Speaker 2: of them. To your point, I think they do need
Speaker 2: to add to the bullpen, but I don't think you
Speaker 2: need to go really crazy. I mean, dude, you just
Speaker 2: go through. I know in high leverage situations. You guys
Speaker 2: were actually texting me that. And that's that's why I'm
Speaker 2: having guys like you on because you look at the
Speaker 2: bullpen seventh in Eri, sixth and fifth, but in high
Speaker 2: leverage situations they actually weren't that great. So I agree,
Speaker 2: add to the bullpen, but I don't think they have
Speaker 2: to go crazy. But we need to say this, Peter, Yeah,
Speaker 2: go ahead. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm not a huge believer in like the kurree H
Speaker 4: steal that just he got just God or the Hendrix
Speaker 4: Steel or whatever, like all these big money bullpen deals.
Speaker 4: But I was watching, you know, I was covering that
Speaker 4: Giant's Dodgers series for us, right and I'm watching them
Speaker 4: them pitch, and when it gets to the end of
Speaker 4: the game and you face trying in and Canable and Jansen,
Speaker 4: you have no fucking chance, Okay, And it's it's a
Speaker 4: different games. It was a different game from the game
Speaker 4: the Marlins were playing. Because they everybody out there in
Speaker 4: the playoffs was sending in guys that were throwing high
Speaker 4: heat with big breaking stuff, and I really liked doing
Speaker 4: Floroh a lot.
Speaker 2: I don't you know.
Speaker 4: He was pretty good for them in high leverage situations
Speaker 4: this year. He finished the year as the closer because
Speaker 4: they moved on from a lot of guys and he
Speaker 4: was pretty good.
Speaker 1: But they could not find a solid closing option all
Speaker 1: year long. It was a huge issue for them.
Speaker 4: And I just think that if you can get a
Speaker 4: guy that has some power stuff like a Jansen, you know,
Speaker 4: somebody that's going to come in to the back end
Speaker 4: and throw big time heat and a big breaking ball
Speaker 4: up there, again, I would I would pay for it.
Speaker 2: I think Jansen would be a great option for them.
Speaker 4: But also they have a lot of guys in house
Speaker 4: that I think they could move to the pen.
Speaker 2: Now I'm not ready to.
Speaker 4: Move like a Meyer or anybody like that to the pen,
Speaker 4: but I think there's a couple guys that we'll talk
Speaker 4: about when we get to the bullpen that they can
Speaker 4: move that can really make them better at the back
Speaker 4: end of the bullpen because they do have power stuff
Speaker 4: in the system.
Speaker 2: So Ethan. I have a question for you because I
Speaker 2: mentioned on the last podcast it might have been last
Speaker 2: week where and it wasn't an indictment on Max Meyer.
Speaker 2: It was more thinking that with the surplux of seven
Speaker 2: eight arms all really solid guys, even with six do Sanchez.
Speaker 2: I know he's still dealing with injuries, but he's at
Speaker 2: least going to get another shot in that rotation, and
Speaker 2: you should do you think it's palatable if Max Meyer
Speaker 2: were to come up, because he's got two pitches that
Speaker 2: are MLB ready already, like the fastball slaughter combination, filthy,
Speaker 2: would it make sense to put him in a Michael
Speaker 2: Kopek type role just to start really just get the
Speaker 2: wheels turning on Max Meyer, see really what you got,
Speaker 2: and then you could kind of, you know, play it
Speaker 2: by Let's say he never really develops a third pitch,
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying that that could happen, but it
Speaker 2: could happen. Maybe the change up doesn't actually form into anything,
Speaker 2: and then he's maybe your closer, maybe Michael Kumbec. But
Speaker 2: then let's say he does develop that change up and
Speaker 2: then you can move him into the starting rotation. Does
Speaker 2: that make sense to put him in a copec type bullpenroll,
Speaker 2: not a seventh inning.
Speaker 4: Guy, absolutely, and they haven't been inclined to do that necessarily.
Speaker 4: They really want their guys to come up as starters,
Speaker 4: like they've tried with Jordan Holloway for so long, and
Speaker 4: Jordan Holloway is he's not that good, but he he's
Speaker 4: got power stuff, you know, and I think they should
Speaker 4: try and move him, like, you know, he's one of
Speaker 4: the guys that they could easily flex back there.
Speaker 2: But if they're in.
Speaker 4: Playoff contention, like you know, come come July September or
Speaker 4: August September. You know, if they're in playoff contention, or
Speaker 4: even if they get into get in and and Meyer's
Speaker 4: sitting there and you've got three or four guys locking
Speaker 4: down the rotation spots, you know, like if Eddie steps up,
Speaker 4: if six still comes back and you know finds form,
Speaker 4: which I know Arham is very very not sure about,
Speaker 4: but you know, if they lock in, like you know,
Speaker 4: they've got the three as long as Pablo stays health,
Speaker 4: as long as they stay healthy, they've got the three.
Speaker 4: If they find a fourth guy for the playoffs, then
Speaker 4: now you're looking at Meyer could make a huge impact.
Speaker 4: By coming up into the bullpen, and there's no room
Speaker 4: for him in their rotation. Right, So I absolutely think,
Speaker 4: like I've thought about this before, he's I know they're
Speaker 4: gonna try and make him a starter long term, and
Speaker 4: I think he can be a starter long term. But absolutely,
Speaker 4: if they're in playoff contention and they need a boost
Speaker 4: to the bullpen, there is no reason not to just
Speaker 4: give it a shot.
Speaker 2: If he has a.
Speaker 4: Good year in TRIPLELA this year, bring him up, put
Speaker 4: him into the pen. Now you've got a you know,
Speaker 4: pretty big fastball and a wipeout slider, you know, maybe
Speaker 4: the best pitching all of Minor league baseball coming up.
Speaker 4: And I think that could be a very good Yeah,
Speaker 4: I think that could be a very good option for them.
Speaker 2: All Right, gentlemen, let's upgrade the offense. Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Is Brian Reynolds available. Arm I know it's basically impossible
Speaker 2: because the pirates have come on and said you're gonna
Speaker 2: have to give up everything. But from talking with you both,
Speaker 2: you're both willing to kind of give up everything. You know,
Speaker 2: let's finally trade the farm. We have this young starting
Speaker 2: rotation that's just budding and starting pitching wins championships, and
Speaker 2: if you can add an impact bat like Brian Reynolds,
Speaker 2: maybe an overpay would be worth it. So arm Brian Reynolds,
Speaker 2: what would a trade package look like if if you
Speaker 2: think they would even do it, because we can also
Speaker 2: talk to Tell Marte too, because he actually is palatable
Speaker 2: in a trade.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Marte is someone I think who's attainable.
Speaker 2: Obviously. Reynolds.
Speaker 3: The fact that the Pirates like replied back with Julio Rodriguez,
Speaker 3: and I think it's a little bit of posturing. I
Speaker 3: also think it's it shows that they're listening to somewhat
Speaker 3: of a degree. The Marlins are gonna have to blow
Speaker 3: them out of the water with an offer. But I
Speaker 3: think it's clear after the Jacob Stallings deal that the
Speaker 3: Marlins have ongoing, you know, conversations with the Pirates, and
Speaker 3: the Marlins are a team that likes to trade with
Speaker 3: like the same teams always, so I could I could
Speaker 3: really envision.
Speaker 2: Pirates more than anything, and the Marlins have sixty of them,
Speaker 2: so I mean, it does make sense out of any team,
Speaker 2: if not the Mariners, it's the Marlins.
Speaker 3: I'd give them everything, dude, Like, I don't really care
Speaker 3: like I like, and I feel like Marlins fans might
Speaker 3: be upset about that, but but really, at this point,
Speaker 3: you're playing to to win in the next few years.
Speaker 3: The Marlins rotation is set up to where it's going
Speaker 3: to be sustainable.
Speaker 2: For a long time.
Speaker 3: So what are we what are we hoarding pitching prospects
Speaker 3: for here when Brian Reynolds could be one of the
Speaker 3: best fielders in baseball very soon, Like he's on his
Speaker 3: way to being that. He's controllable. He allows you you
Speaker 3: go trade for Reynolds. You still got capital financially now
Speaker 3: to maybe go get a chance and to go make
Speaker 3: other moves. You have financial flexibility moving forward, Like it's
Speaker 3: beyond just what you give up prospect wise. I see
Speaker 3: people wanting to hold on to Max Meyer and things
Speaker 3: like that. But Max Meyer is really good. He dominated
Speaker 3: through double A with two dominant not even two dominant.
Speaker 3: One dominant pitch, which is a spider as fastball actually
Speaker 3: got hit pretty well. I like the things we saw
Speaker 3: at the end of the year, But like, there's a
Speaker 3: legitimate question of where's the third pitch. Let's see if
Speaker 3: it develops, if there's any if on a prospect, you
Speaker 3: should be okay with trading him for an Impact All Star,
Speaker 3: Brian Reynolds's Impact All Star. I would trade Meyer and
Speaker 3: Watson in two seconds. In two seconds, and I think
Speaker 3: it would take another piece from there, and Marlins fans like,
Speaker 3: you can let me know I'm crazy. You can tweet
Speaker 3: Amy later like that's fine. But the way I look
Speaker 3: at it is Khalil Watson right, like he's going to
Speaker 3: be up there in what three years, four years, probably
Speaker 3: closer to three and a half. And you're hoping that
Speaker 3: he sticks it short stop, which is more likely that
Speaker 3: he doesn't than he does. You're hoping that the bat
Speaker 3: will continue to develop, which I think it should. You're
Speaker 3: hoping that he can overcome some of the you know,
Speaker 3: makeup and character concerns that have really clouded his draft
Speaker 3: value in draft stock that had him swept to sixteenth
Speaker 3: in the draft. Like you're hoping for a lot of
Speaker 3: things there from Meyer, You're hoping that the change up develops.
Speaker 3: You're hoping for a few other things with other prospects.
Speaker 3: I could play that same game with Brian Reynolds. You're
Speaker 3: hoping for nothing. You're hoping that he doesn't have a
Speaker 3: catastrophic injury knock on wood that derails his career because
Speaker 3: he's already shown you what he can do and he
Speaker 3: gets better every single year.
Speaker 2: Like that's the psychology.
Speaker 3: That's a place you need to get to as a fan,
Speaker 3: I think to try to be able to digest these trades.
Speaker 3: I mean, the Marlins fans are traumatized a little bit
Speaker 3: because the way the trades have gone the other way.
Speaker 3: But like Yelich, yeah yeah, but like think about it
Speaker 3: that way, think about it that way, right, Like we
Speaker 3: were excited to see the halls coming in, the halls
Speaker 3: that were coming in for some of those impact players,
Speaker 3: and those halls went to shit, Like you have to
Speaker 3: be okay with it. Sometimes at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: you're trading volatility for a blue chip stock, I'm trading
Speaker 3: you a bunch of penny stocks, higher end penny stocks.
Speaker 3: Maybe sometimes because some of these guys are really good.
Speaker 3: But if you're able to hold onto Uri Perez and
Speaker 3: you're able to hold on to some of your other guys,
Speaker 3: like this system is still loaded with dude, you trade
Speaker 3: Max Meyer away. You have a young rotation that's guys
Speaker 3: that are just graduated from being prospects. You have still
Speaker 3: Dax Fulton, you have youry Perez, you have Zach mccambley, like,
Speaker 3: you still have tons of arms, still more arms than
Speaker 3: most minor league systems.
Speaker 2: I'm okay with it.
Speaker 5: And you also have a top six pick, right they
Speaker 5: pick six in this upcoming draft, like they're gonna replenish.
Speaker 5: I would make any offer possible that the Pirates are
Speaker 5: willing to hear, and that would transcend into some other targets.
Speaker 2: Too, Ethan's that's my thing. Go ahead, So I have
Speaker 2: an offer. I have an offer, so I want to
Speaker 2: throw it at you to kind of get the ball
Speaker 2: rolling again. So I came up with something for Brian Reynolds.
Speaker 2: I'm trading away Khalil Watson. I'm trading away Max Meyer,
Speaker 2: I'm trading away Edward Cabrera, and I'm all so giving
Speaker 2: them Jake Eaeder. Okay, So is that too much?
Speaker 4: I wouldn't I wouldn't touch. I'm not touching the major
Speaker 4: league rotation right now. Personally, I'm not because if you
Speaker 4: also deplenished the minor leagues, like you're you're diplenishing the
Speaker 4: minor leagues, Like if you're trading Meyer for me, at
Speaker 4: least you're doing it because you know you've got it
Speaker 4: locked down in the major leagues, right, But they should
Speaker 4: consider it. I mean, they should really think about it.
Speaker 4: And it's for this reason we just talked about it.
Speaker 4: There should be no price. They really should be no price.
Speaker 4: They aren't willing to pay for a significant upgraded offense.
Speaker 4: And one fun fact here is that I think Barry Jackson,
Speaker 4: it was either Barrier.
Speaker 2: Craig Mischer reported this is.
Speaker 4: That they could have had Brian Reynolds a long time
Speaker 4: ago because there was a deal in place with the
Speaker 4: Giants for John Carlo Stanton that got vetoed because stant
Speaker 4: had a no trade clause that involved Brian Renat. So
Speaker 4: the Marlins have been after Brian Reynolds for a long time.
Speaker 4: And this is I mean, this is the guy. Like
Speaker 4: I think they need an everyday centerfielder. They need a
Speaker 4: locked down a guy that's gonna lock it down. This
Speaker 4: is the guy. He plays good defense out there, and
Speaker 4: he's a great hitter. He is one of the more
Speaker 4: underrated hitters in the league. I think this offseason, after
Speaker 4: such a great year, he's finally getting all that attention
Speaker 4: from around the league.
Speaker 1: He is one of the great hitters in the league
Speaker 1: and he makes them instantly better. Like, if there's one
Speaker 1: guy that they can trade for this offseason, I think
Speaker 1: that can make them a playoff contender. I himself, it's
Speaker 1: Brian Reynolds.
Speaker 4: With the other moves that they've made so far, Casianos,
Speaker 4: they need some bullpen help, you know this, They need
Speaker 4: some whatever. If they trade for Brian Reynolds, I think
Speaker 4: they are on the door right there, because I think
Speaker 4: he would bring that much of an impact to the team.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, no, sorry, go ahead, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 4: My thing is, I do think they're gonna get priced
Speaker 4: out because the Pirates asking price is insane.
Speaker 2: But I'll say this, if I'm.
Speaker 4: The Marlin and they call with Meyer and Khalil Watson
Speaker 4: and a couple other guys down the line, I'll probably
Speaker 4: say yes. It would be hard, but I'd probably say yes.
Speaker 4: And I'm gonna say I'll have a take here that
Speaker 4: you guys can put on the make a little Instagram
Speaker 4: picture for love that I'm trading Khalil Watson before I'm
Speaker 4: trading Jose Salas. If I'm the Marlins, I am really
Speaker 4: really high on Jose Sawas because I've seen like what
Speaker 4: he did in the Complex League this year. That's what
Speaker 4: like the best hitters in minor league baseball due to
Speaker 4: the Complex League. He absolutely tore it to shreds and
Speaker 4: he had a pretty nice start. Once he got to
Speaker 4: Jupiter in low A, he put up some pretty good
Speaker 4: numbers all things considered.
Speaker 2: He's like eighteen or nineteen years old.
Speaker 4: I people get laugh at me all they want. I'm
Speaker 4: really high on Sawas they need a guy. They don't
Speaker 4: really have a third basement in the system. They have
Speaker 4: some more athletic guys up the middle, and they have
Speaker 4: Jazz and Mickey Roe for few years up the middle there.
Speaker 4: I really think that they should keep focus on keeping
Speaker 4: Solace over keeping Watson, because I'm really high on that guy.
Speaker 4: But again, if you know, if you're telling me trade both,
Speaker 4: maybe I'm saying no. But if you're taking one of
Speaker 4: the two of them and Meyer or Eater, I would probably,
Speaker 4: you know, I would probably send it in because they
Speaker 4: have to they have to make if they can get
Speaker 4: that guy, they got to do it.
Speaker 2: So arm you you cringed at that offer. It was
Speaker 2: a fat one. It was a one. It was a
Speaker 2: fat one. That package gets you almost every player, any
Speaker 2: player in baseball. That's right, and that that just goes
Speaker 2: to show like what I think Brian Reynolds is, like
Speaker 2: he's one of the best outfielders in baseball. Like he's
Speaker 2: an impact bat immediately. And when I'm looking at those
Speaker 2: individual players, the ranked very highly. But Khalil Watson fell
Speaker 2: in the draft. Remember he was a top five guy
Speaker 2: who fell to the middle of the first round because
Speaker 2: there was reasons why Edward Cabrera in his first stint
Speaker 2: and big leagues were not giving up on him. He's
Speaker 2: got too much of a luod stuff. But he had
Speaker 2: a five point eight one e er. That was just
Speaker 2: the reality of it. You said it yourself about Max Meyer.
Speaker 2: He has one pitch right now, I would say the fastball,
Speaker 2: you know, it was still pretty good. But I mean
Speaker 2: you said to yourself one guy and then Jake Eater,
Speaker 2: who has shown that he can he can pitch pretty well,
Speaker 2: good solid lefty. But I don't think like when you
Speaker 2: go through them all individually and you'd be getting Brian Reynolds,
Speaker 2: is it that crazy to trade those four? It is?
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely all right, go off. Then Jake Eater was
Speaker 3: one of the best pitchers in Double A this past year.
Speaker 3: Before going down with Tommy John. I mean one seven seven,
Speaker 3: l right, he was the best South pot of the
Speaker 3: whole draft. If you redrafted it, he'd probably go top ten.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: I just Edward like, yeah, he struggled. He walked nineteen
Speaker 3: guys in like twenty seven innings. That's something to watch
Speaker 3: for sure. I think the Watson stuff's valid. I think
Speaker 3: if you go Meyer wattson, would you go Meyer Watson
Speaker 3: eater Ethan? Would you do that for uh? Meyer Watson
Speaker 3: and Eater for Reynolds? Yeah, Marlins fans are freaking out
Speaker 3: right now, they would be freaking I mean I would
Speaker 3: talk myself into it eventually, because again I'm sick and
Speaker 3: tired of prospect hugging.
Speaker 4: But you know, when you hear it, it's like holy fuck,
Speaker 4: Like but like three top prospects, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Would the pirates say yes, Yeah, that's the thing. Like
Speaker 2: they're asking for Rodriguez and we're talking about an overpay here.
Speaker 2: I mean, are we gonna do the dealer? Were not? They? They?
Speaker 4: You know, they they they have to take it, Like
Speaker 4: if they don't take it, they're done. They have to
Speaker 4: because you're getting too probably frontline starters. Uh, you know,
Speaker 4: two potential frontline starters and a guy with in Watson
Speaker 4: who has huge upside.
Speaker 2: Even know if those three get the deal done though.
Speaker 4: But I don't even know either, because they're being really
Speaker 4: stubborn about this. They have every right to be really stubborn. Right,
Speaker 4: He's got really good four or five years of control.
Speaker 4: He's really good, he's young, he's everything you can ask for,
Speaker 4: you know, like that's why that's why the Marlins, that's
Speaker 4: why the Marlins should be after him as much as
Speaker 4: they can.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, you know, look, if they you guys,
Speaker 2: they're gonna freak. They're gonna freak.
Speaker 4: But again, this is what I'll say, Peter, is we
Speaker 4: talked about how they're m talked about how they're just
Speaker 4: gonna replenish. Right, that's just what they're gonna keep doing.
Speaker 4: They're just gonna find another Meyer eater whoever they trade
Speaker 4: exactly shown the ability.
Speaker 2: To do it.
Speaker 4: And you know, it might sound ridiculous that they're just
Speaker 4: gonna magically find another Max Meyer. No, they they turned
Speaker 4: up freaking Zach Thompson had a good year.
Speaker 2: Last year, the top forty prospects in baseball. URI's a stud.
Speaker 4: They have a lot they're gonna keep They're just gonna
Speaker 4: keep loan up. Dude, They're not gonna stop. They're getting cash.
Speaker 4: They're gonna do it in the draft. They're gonna do
Speaker 4: it however they want to do it. They're gonna develop
Speaker 4: pitching no matter what they do.
Speaker 2: Exactly. So I agree about it.
Speaker 3: I agree, But that doesn't mean like just just go
Speaker 3: nuts like I won the lotteries.
Speaker 2: Pay a million dollars for a sandwich.
Speaker 4: But if you take out Cabrera, Pete, if you take
Speaker 4: out Cabrera, I would probably do it because I'm not
Speaker 4: touching the If I'm trading away the two top pitchers,
Speaker 4: I'm not. You can't get me to touch the major
Speaker 4: league rotation because those are the guys that are supposed
Speaker 4: to come in for them.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Mean, I think that's totally fair. But I think
Speaker 2: you're maybe lower on Edward Cabrera than Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 2: I think that's where I was coming from for me,
Speaker 2: and because you have nine of them, like I think
Speaker 2: he's a Arto could be great, like the Eliet'ser Hernandez.
Speaker 2: There's so many guys who I thought, Okay, if if
Speaker 2: Edward came up and six though, is still coming. If
Speaker 2: Edward came up and he was electric, then I'm like,
Speaker 2: all right, well no, but he was like kind of horrible,
Speaker 2: like straight up not good. I'm not saying that it's
Speaker 2: indicative of his future success, but like he just wasn't good.
Speaker 4: Can I tell you what it reminded me of. It
Speaker 4: reminded me of when Sandy first came up on it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he got three rocked an he had all that, he
Speaker 4: had this big time stuff, and he got knocked around.
Speaker 1: He wasn't really locating like he did in the minors.
Speaker 2: You know, he was.
Speaker 4: Demoted people out, But there were some there were some
Speaker 4: good signs, Like there was one game where he struk
Speaker 4: a a bunch of guys out. There were still some good,
Speaker 4: some flashes. And you saw that with Sandy when he
Speaker 4: was young. I mean Sandy even his first year in Miami,
Speaker 4: he wasn't striking anybody out really And and you're right
Speaker 4: on the first year he was in the Marlins system,
Speaker 4: he went up from New Orleans, they sent him back
Speaker 4: down at the end of the year. Then the next
Speaker 4: year he finally stuck for the whole year.
Speaker 2: He was then he was current Sandy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but he he just kind of like hung around
Speaker 4: and then something clicked. I think with Cabrera it might
Speaker 4: be that same kind of thing. I'm I'm really high
Speaker 4: on that guy. You know, he's got it, He's got.
Speaker 2: Here's here's my final offer. Here's my final offer.
Speaker 3: Max Meyer, you know, Max Meyer, Khalil and Eliezer send.
Speaker 4: It in in a heartbeat.
Speaker 2: But the thing is, what would you rather have Jake
Speaker 2: Eater or Elia s or Hernandez? Because I don't know
Speaker 2: if they would take Yeah, I don't think they So
Speaker 2: you're even lowering the trade now or I'm like.
Speaker 4: If you're the Marlins, if you're the Marlins, I'm looking
Speaker 4: for ways to move Eliezer immediately.
Speaker 2: I was begging for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was begging for that on the Lockdown Marlins podcast,
Speaker 3: Like it was a long time ago. I was trying
Speaker 3: to before last season. I was trying to trade him.
Speaker 3: But where else could you go? Like you could go
Speaker 3: get katl and and that's a lesser of the.
Speaker 2: Package gets it. Let's talk about coateel Marte then, because
Speaker 2: you know it's gonna it's gonna take the entire farm
Speaker 2: and maybe we're not totally comfortable with that. But if
Speaker 2: the Marlins could actually have a great offseason. Let's say
Speaker 2: they trade for Katel Marte, you signed Nick Costianos, and
Speaker 2: you signed Kenley Jansen. We're talking about the Miami Marlins
Speaker 2: right because the Phillies need to add and they haven't,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, their roster looks, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of grim right now. We think the Mets will be better,
Speaker 2: but sometimes the Mets will be the Mets. The Braves
Speaker 2: if they don't sign Freddy Freeman. I mean, they're still
Speaker 2: going to be really good, but you know, there's there's
Speaker 2: some issues there. I mean, I still think the Braves
Speaker 2: are the prohibitive favorite in this division. I still love
Speaker 2: the Brave Saucer. I still think they're going to sign
Speaker 2: Freddy Freeman. But the reality of the fact is if
Speaker 2: they don't, that's they're losing their best player besides ronal
Speaker 2: ccunu Junr. So what would a trade for Kudel Marte
Speaker 2: look like? Arm and go ahead, Armor arm mates when
Speaker 2: I asked, because.
Speaker 3: Yeah, god, I really It's funny because I've always been
Speaker 3: more open to trading Meyer than I think the average
Speaker 3: Marlins fan is too. And I've let got to give
Speaker 3: to get, gotta give to get I would I would
Speaker 3: deal Meyer in a situation here for Marte. I think
Speaker 3: you know, I would feel pretty confident that you can
Speaker 3: extend Marte too should he come and he comes with control,
Speaker 3: but you could probably extend beyond that. I think you
Speaker 3: could give up something similar to the package, but not
Speaker 3: quite as much. I think you could hold on to
Speaker 3: Watson if you're giving up a Meyer, I think you
Speaker 3: only have to give up one front front, front end guy.
Speaker 3: But you could do like a Meyer, a Hernandez and
Speaker 3: an Eater, or like a Meer Hernandez and somebody else.
Speaker 3: And I think he gets it done because he doesn't
Speaker 3: have as much control. He's a little bit of a
Speaker 3: guy that's been banged up through the years. I think
Speaker 3: that impacts his value with Tad. He doesn't quite have
Speaker 3: that prowess defensively in center field, which does concern me
Speaker 3: a little bit. But as I laid out in the
Speaker 3: article two that you can check out, is that I
Speaker 3: think the Onements have made it clear that they don't
Speaker 3: really care about the outfield defense and they're gonna do
Speaker 3: whatever it takes to upgrade the offense, which I'm okay
Speaker 3: with you upgraded defensively with Joey Wendel in the fold.
Speaker 3: You upgraded at catcher, you still have Rojasage short Jastism
Speaker 3: is only going to be better at second base. The
Speaker 3: defense is maybe a little bit of a liability, but
Speaker 3: I'm cool with it if you're upgrading offensively. So maybe
Speaker 3: that is splitting time in center field between Marte and
Speaker 3: Garcia and just just kind of doing a little bit
Speaker 3: of an outfield rotation out there. But I don't know
Speaker 3: if I would give up for Marte because of the
Speaker 3: control compared to some other guys. I probably wouldn't give
Speaker 3: up much more than like a Meyer and and Eliezer
Speaker 3: and then one other of those Eater types or Fulton types.
Speaker 2: Does this get it done? Max Meyer? And six Dos
Speaker 2: Sanchez for for Cantel Marte. Does that get it done?
Speaker 4: You're getting dangerous here, man, Marlins fins are going to
Speaker 4: be after You're good.
Speaker 2: Send it all to me. I'm trying to win now, Miami.
Speaker 2: Do not come from Max Meyer. No, listen, dude, I'll
Speaker 2: tell you this.
Speaker 4: I love Cantel Marte like he's one of my favorite
Speaker 4: players across the league. And I said it earlier. Score
Speaker 4: a bunch of runs. Who gives a shit about defense, right,
Speaker 4: throw him in center field. He's done it. He's been serviceable.
Speaker 4: I mean he's not great, but fuck it, do it.
Speaker 4: You need to.
Speaker 1: Score runs and and and and.
Speaker 4: Pr Your starters are going to be striking everybody out anyway, right,
Speaker 4: So who can so around balls?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: And ground balls. And he got pretty good infield defense too,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. So I just think go
Speaker 4: especially with Sandy. I mean, Sandy, you know, the balls
Speaker 4: on the ground the whole game. But I just think
Speaker 4: that this is like I personally think that if they
Speaker 4: go for a trade in center field, they're gonna get
Speaker 4: priced out on Reynolds and they're gonna go for Marte.
Speaker 4: I think that's kind of what's gonna happen. And I
Speaker 4: would love to see k Tell Marte in a Marlins uniform.
Speaker 4: I think he would provide a huge impact for them.
Speaker 4: I mean, his numbers are so freaking good man. You
Speaker 4: look at his numbers, like, you know that he had
Speaker 4: one hundred and forty nine way to runs grade plus
Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: That was the year.
Speaker 4: He was an also a three twenty nine down year
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty, but still had ninety four rad to
Speaker 4: runs graded plus throw twenty twenty out the window anyway,
Speaker 4: and he had one hundred and thirty nine way to
Speaker 4: run straight. Plus he only played ninety games last year
Speaker 4: and he had a nine to nine ops. The dude
Speaker 4: just hits, and I think he would fit really well
Speaker 4: in you into that locker room, into that lineup, and
Speaker 4: just bring him play with some flair and Miami would
Speaker 4: fall in love with this guy. And they messed up
Speaker 4: with They got it wrong with one Marte right, Like
Speaker 4: they should have paid that guy if they made the
Speaker 4: offer they made him in free agency at the trade deadline,
Speaker 4: he's still in a Marlin uniform like.
Speaker 2: He should be. They got it wrong with one Marte.
Speaker 4: If they have to, if they don't go for Reynolds,
Speaker 4: they should not get it wrong with this Marte. I
Speaker 4: really think that this should be a strong option for them,
Speaker 4: and they should really really look into trading for Kiteo Marte.
Speaker 3: I totally agree, and I've warmed up to him more
Speaker 3: the more I realized that the Marlins. Well, once I
Speaker 3: heard the Marlins are kicking the tires on Avy Garcia
Speaker 3: and centerfield, I was like.
Speaker 2: Okay, screw it.
Speaker 3: Just just throw Catel out there right like, Okay, if
Speaker 3: we don't care that much about defense, throw Garcia or
Speaker 3: throw Marte out there. And what I will say too
Speaker 3: is I just think you know that there's more of
Speaker 3: an importance on like a fourth outfielder defensively, Brian, you know,
Speaker 3: Brian Delacruez something like that, to be to make strides
Speaker 3: out there defensively.
Speaker 2: The d Backs don't need Marte.
Speaker 3: He's not going to play the outfield for them because
Speaker 3: they've got Alec Thomas coming up centerfielder. They got Corby
Speaker 3: and Carroll coming up centerfielder, so both those guys are
Speaker 3: gonna play really good outfield. So Marte would be moving
Speaker 3: to second. If you're a team that's still far from
Speaker 3: contending and could cash in and get impact impacts prospects
Speaker 3: for your second basement, why the hell wouldn't you trade him.
Speaker 3: The Marlins again, have that history of trading with the Dbacks.
Speaker 3: They've done it on multiple occasions. I mean, this makes
Speaker 3: the most sense. You don't have to make the trades
Speaker 3: that we presented that would make Marlins fans vomit. For
Speaker 3: Brian Reynolds, you might be able to even pull off
Speaker 3: a deal without Jake or without Max Meyer. If you
Speaker 3: give up more pieces, right, Like, you could go DA's Fulton,
Speaker 3: Jake Eater and a few other guys, and the d
Speaker 3: Backs may prefer a package of five solid prospects or
Speaker 3: four really solid prospects, and the Marlins might be able
Speaker 3: to pull that off.
Speaker 2: I know they prefer not to trade any of their
Speaker 2: main main prospects. So if you can pull.
Speaker 3: Off a deal where you're trading from you know, a
Speaker 3: package around Dax, Fulton, Jake Eater and then some other
Speaker 3: impact prospects, I think you.
Speaker 2: Can pull that off. And the d Backs need arms.
Speaker 2: They need arms. They need to stockpile them.
Speaker 3: They've not done well with arms in recent history, and
Speaker 3: I think that makes the most sense. He's not that expensive,
Speaker 3: and the Marlins can can then go make some other moves.
Speaker 3: That guy at the top of your lineup just changes everything.
Speaker 3: He changes everything.
Speaker 4: So talking about trade partner, you know, the d Backs
Speaker 4: have to be happy with how their last deal with
Speaker 4: the Marlins went down in terms of acquiring a starter
Speaker 4: from them, right, Like, everybody's really high on Zach Gallon.
Speaker 2: He's gonna be really solid.
Speaker 4: And you know what we talked about how they traded
Speaker 4: Meisner earlier, right and I think they did that because
Speaker 4: they're going to upgrade at the major league level in
Speaker 4: the outfield. So maybe there's a couple of guys they're
Speaker 4: willing to cut from that outfield, you know, totem Pole.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're willing to move on from.
Speaker 4: A Verdict or a Bladet, and they throw one of
Speaker 4: those guys, and DBACS think that they can really get
Speaker 4: them right in their organization. And if you do that again,
Speaker 4: now you're adding another piece of value, of big value.
Speaker 1: You might not have to give up Max Meyer.
Speaker 4: You might be able to move a Fulton and a
Speaker 4: bled Dat and somebody on down the line.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I think that this could they could make this deal
Speaker 4: for a lot cheaper than they could make Brian Reynolds.
Speaker 4: And I'm not sure how big the drop off an
Speaker 4: impact is going to be, except that Reynolds is younger,
Speaker 4: and I think he has he has more more control. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so I think, are you willing how you know how
Speaker 4: much value? How much do you value that control to
Speaker 4: the point that if Reynolds costs too much, you just
Speaker 4: drop down. You give up probably a lot less to
Speaker 4: get Marte who is on the offensive side of the ball.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure the offensive impact is going to be much,
Speaker 4: if any different.
Speaker 2: Dude, it's absolute pesst missiles. So on my case in
Speaker 2: the GM of the Arizona Imbas and Armine Ethan, I
Speaker 2: call you guys up and now I'm you guys are
Speaker 2: a collective mind of Kim Nang, and I say I
Speaker 2: will give you can tell Marte and I want Max
Speaker 2: Meyer and six O Sanchez. Max Meyer has one pitch
Speaker 2: right now, six oh Sanchez has been dealing with injury
Speaker 2: after injury and he's still what is he? Is he
Speaker 2: throwing from one hundred and twenty feet yet?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: So, and that's all I want. I want those two pittures.
Speaker 2: Is that so? Acdine for an impact bat like? Could
Speaker 2: tell Marte that shouldn't make Marlins fan so mad? Don't
Speaker 2: you want offense? Don't you want an electric Tell Marte
Speaker 2: who I'm hearing stories from guys who have hit in
Speaker 2: the cages with him that he goes in shirtless without
Speaker 2: warming up and it's one hundred and ten mile an hour,
Speaker 2: rockets the other way without even trying, Like, don't you
Speaker 2: want that? For two guys? That Max Like? They're not
Speaker 2: just these ultimate pictures that you just have Maximarron six oh,
Speaker 2: and that's like, oh, that's just Trevor Rodgers and Sandy's
Speaker 2: sitting there right now. It might not be. That could
Speaker 2: actually be, you know, Max Meyer might be a bullpen
Speaker 2: guy and maybe six oh never develops, And that's an
Speaker 2: absolute steal. So that's why I would do I would
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 4: And and I'm I'm personally like, I'm still holding out
Speaker 4: a ton of hope for six so because I saw
Speaker 4: him pitch in person. I saw him pitch, you know,
Speaker 4: during the pandemic. I was locked into all of his starts.
Speaker 2: Have you seen him?
Speaker 3: Have you seen him work out in person? Doesn't concerned
Speaker 3: you seen him train in person? No, I haven't exercise.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've seen him Instagram in person.
Speaker 4: I've seen him Instagram miss uh uh Bobo Bobo. I
Speaker 4: love mister Bobo. But you know, I'm I still like,
Speaker 4: I'm holding out that hope on six oh because I
Speaker 4: saw how electric that stuff is. But if you're telling me,
Speaker 4: I can get ka tell Marte and it's gonna cast
Speaker 4: six though, and Meyer, and I know that I've still
Speaker 4: got Eddie Cabrera, Jake Eder, Urie Perez.
Speaker 2: Zach mccambley.
Speaker 4: And for Jax Fulton and more behind them, because there's
Speaker 4: guys that we haven't even mentioned in this system that
Speaker 4: deal on a nightly basis in places like Jupiter and
Speaker 4: Belloy and Jacksonville. There are guys that are dealing that
Speaker 4: we don't even talk about, and then they're gonna draft
Speaker 4: and they're gonna sign a free agency like they are
Speaker 4: going to just I keep saying it, but they are
Speaker 4: just going to keep replenishing these arms, and at that point,
Speaker 4: trading a Sixcesscantis, trading a Max Meyer, they'll find one
Speaker 4: of those again.
Speaker 2: George Soriano.
Speaker 4: My goal Hereriano is a guy we don't talk about,
Speaker 4: Like there are plenty of guys down there that are
Speaker 4: absolutely saucing minor league hitting.
Speaker 2: And my goal here is not to just destroy this
Speaker 2: Marlins farm system. I'm trading away some guys that I personally.
Speaker 2: It's not that I don't believe in Maximyr. I do
Speaker 2: believe in Max Meyer, and I feel like he's that
Speaker 2: blue chip prospect that you would trade it for something.
Speaker 2: But in those other trades, like I'm looking to kind
Speaker 2: of trade from the biggest area of strength, like maybe
Speaker 2: in Major League Baseball when we're talking about the major
Speaker 2: league roster and the minor league roster. When it comes
Speaker 2: to pitching, there are a few organizations that have what
Speaker 2: Miami has, so use that to then upgrade on the offense.
Speaker 2: So let's let's let's review as we as we wrap
Speaker 2: up here. So we we traded forktel Marte because Brian
Speaker 2: Reynolds over there in Pittsburgh, which is a little bit
Speaker 2: too expensive. We signed ken Lee Jansen to a two
Speaker 2: or a three year deal. I think that's palatable. He's
Speaker 2: one of the best. You know, he was one of
Speaker 2: the best closers in baseball. If you don't walk him
Speaker 2: into like a four year, fifty four million, you get
Speaker 2: him at two or three years, I'm good with that.
Speaker 2: Who's arm Who's the one free agent that they also
Speaker 2: need to get to be back in playoff contention? Like
Speaker 2: outside who we mentioned? Yeah, no, well, I mean we
Speaker 2: mentioned Nick Costiano's. Like, who's the one guy that's available
Speaker 2: on the free agency market that you think we need
Speaker 2: to add to Miami Like.
Speaker 3: I think conventionally fans might think it's nuts, but but
Speaker 3: to me, ken Lee Anson is that guy. Like Kenley
Speaker 3: Jansen is that guy. Because they the Marlins bullpen, Like
Speaker 3: you mentioned, Peter is good on a macro scale. Right
Speaker 3: six seventh inning, they've got good guys. They went out
Speaker 3: and got Lewis Head too from the Rays, who I like, like, they've.
Speaker 2: Got really good middle inning guys.
Speaker 3: If you look at Jordan Hallway, by the way, another
Speaker 3: guy that actually thinks is gonna be good out of
Speaker 3: their bullpen. Not a good starter at all, but was
Speaker 3: really good out of the bullpen. I think he had
Speaker 3: a point seventy five era in relief and then a
Speaker 3: fifteen era out of the bullpen. So you have the
Speaker 3: nuts and bolts, you might only need one experience fed
Speaker 3: at the back end and Jansen's velo up two miles
Speaker 3: an hour across the border. You look at a Savant page,
Speaker 3: it looks like almost Juan Soto Asque in terms of
Speaker 3: all how high up he is in every department.
Speaker 2: Like he's back. Two year deal. You're good.
Speaker 3: You have the experience, you have a winner, you have
Speaker 3: a guy that's been around for a while. I think
Speaker 3: people are quick to be like no, no, no, not ken
Speaker 3: Lee after what happened a few years ago. He got
Speaker 3: his himself back here and again it's not a five
Speaker 3: year deal. You need the vet, you need the guy
Speaker 3: that can anchor the back end of the bullpen. And
Speaker 3: he makes the most sense to me with it, with
Speaker 3: the closer prowess to help take this team and get
Speaker 3: some winning culture, some experience and vets. There might not
Speaker 3: be the most impact of impact moves, but I think
Speaker 3: it will kind of transcend the stat lines and transcend
Speaker 3: the box score in the war.
Speaker 2: If you will, ethan, who's the number one free agent
Speaker 2: on your wish list? Uh?
Speaker 4: If if they don't make the trades, uh, I'm signing.
Speaker 4: Let's say, let's say and then we also signed Kenley Jansen.
Speaker 4: Who's the next who do we need to just put
Speaker 4: the little cherry on top. I'm looking at some of
Speaker 4: these relievers like to Para to Para.
Speaker 1: I like Attavino with that slider.
Speaker 4: I know like he kind of struggled last year, you know,
Speaker 4: even like there are some good bullpen arms. I would
Speaker 4: really attack this bullpen. I'm sorry, I'm I have like
Speaker 4: Baseball has they They've been dead to me for a
Speaker 4: long time. So I'm like trying to catch up on
Speaker 4: who is available on the bullpen market. But I mean, yeah,
Speaker 4: like Jansen would be the guy personally, Yeah, I think
Speaker 4: that's just another you know who's nobody's talking about that's
Speaker 4: out there is freaking Joe Kelly, who's pumping one two?
Speaker 4: You know, like there are there's power stuff out there
Speaker 4: to be had. I like Archie Bradley still even you
Speaker 4: know brad hann as a reclamation project. You can probably
Speaker 4: get him pretty cheap after he signed for big money
Speaker 4: last year and had a bad year.
Speaker 1: Andrew Miller, can he find that fastball again?
Speaker 4: Like there are a lot of that slider again, There's
Speaker 4: a lot of good like big names. I'm really actually
Speaker 4: pretty impressed with this. So I think a lot of
Speaker 4: big names on the bullpen market right now that I
Speaker 4: think the Marlin should go out and get. But you know,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't even be opposed, Like if they still trade
Speaker 4: for one of these centerfielders.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think, I guess you.
Speaker 4: Really want you do want Hazy Sanchez to play every day,
Speaker 4: So I guess maybe you don't want like you don't want.
Speaker 1: Sorry, is it is that getting picked up? It's not
Speaker 1: right now?
Speaker 4: You're good, okay, So maybe you don't want, you know,
Speaker 4: to sign another outfielder and then run like with either
Speaker 4: Reynolds or could tell or whoever it is or you know,
Speaker 4: and then a Saul and then like Schwarber, let's say,
Speaker 4: because you want Haze Sanchez to play every day. But
Speaker 4: I really think that, like if they have to settle,
Speaker 4: if they can't get anything done in the trade market
Speaker 4: and they have to settle for Swarber, I don't really
Speaker 4: think that's settling necessarily.
Speaker 2: I think really good option for them.
Speaker 4: And the Dhers didn't play this year, thank you totally
Speaker 4: forgot about that. But I think they really want to
Speaker 4: run with Garrett Cooper.
Speaker 2: I love Coop.
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna say it on Twitter because he follows
Speaker 4: me on Twitter, so I'm not gonna say that. I
Speaker 4: have huge concerns about him staying healthy, and I'll believe
Speaker 4: it when I see it. But I'll believe it when
Speaker 4: I see it with Garret Cooper that he's gonna say
Speaker 4: healthy even at the DH position. That guy just finds
Speaker 4: ways to get hurt. I mean, he hurt himself running
Speaker 4: the basis last year, you know, and he was out
Speaker 4: for the season.
Speaker 2: That's how it hurt himself.
Speaker 4: He ran into a guy, right, So I'm not sold
Speaker 4: that that's gonna be one hundred and sixty two games
Speaker 4: of Garrett Cooper. But they do have Lewin Diaz that
Speaker 4: can DH. They do have Aguilar that can DH. They're
Speaker 4: going to mix those guys around at first base this
Speaker 4: Like you asked me, how does the overall look earlier, Peter,
Speaker 4: I think it looks pretty good for the Marlins. If
Speaker 4: they make a big they have to make another big
Speaker 4: move on offense for sure, and then they do need
Speaker 4: to get better at the bull at the back end.
Speaker 1: And I think, like I said, I would love to
Speaker 1: see them move Jordan.
Speaker 2: Holloway to the pen.
Speaker 4: He was really good when he was in the pen
Speaker 4: last year and he's got big power stuff. He's got
Speaker 4: a big fastball and a nice breaking ball that he
Speaker 4: can mix with it. I would put him in the pen,
Speaker 4: and I would move a couple other guys to back
Speaker 4: back there to get some value out of the back
Speaker 4: end of the bullpen. Put some power stuff back there,
Speaker 4: because they can't keep running out there with Bass and
Speaker 4: his ninety three mile an hour fastball or whatever he's
Speaker 4: throwing up there. They need gas at the back end
Speaker 4: because everybody else has it, and everybody they're playing a
Speaker 4: different game than everybody else. In the bullpen when they're
Speaker 4: throwing guys that don't have power stuff out there. So
Speaker 4: I bender is a good option. He struggled in closing.
Speaker 4: I really like Zach Popp. I think with another year
Speaker 4: of his experience under his belt, he was a real
Speaker 4: guy they traded for in the Rule five draft.
Speaker 2: I loved him. He showed a lot of good signs
Speaker 2: last year.
Speaker 4: With another year, I think he can develop into a
Speaker 4: pretty solid bullpen arm. He had some good stretches. They
Speaker 4: had a lot of guys that had good stretches. They
Speaker 4: didn't have a lot of guys that had good years.
Speaker 4: Flora was probably the only guy could and Blier was
Speaker 4: really great that you could say had good years. So
Speaker 4: they need guys that are going to have be good
Speaker 4: and consistent out of the pen. So I think signing
Speaker 4: Keilly and Jansen would be a tremendous option for them.
Speaker 2: So another and before we wrap up this, the last
Speaker 2: thing I wanted to just throw at you guys, another
Speaker 2: free agency signing that I thought, you know, would make
Speaker 2: a lot of sense for Miami's signing Jock Peterson. You know,
Speaker 2: you can put him in the outfield, you can put
Speaker 2: him at the age and he's just got some thump
Speaker 2: and he's got some charisma Miami. I just feel like
Speaker 2: he could be a really good player for the Miami Marlins.
Speaker 2: So if we're looking at this team, what we did.
Speaker 2: We traded for Katl Marte, We signed Kenlee Jansen. Maybe
Speaker 2: we signed another reliever as well, maybe a Ryan Tapara,
Speaker 2: depends on how much that would cost. And I think
Speaker 2: that the Marlin should sign Jock Peterson and we call
Speaker 2: it a day. I think that's a pretty successful team arum.
Speaker 2: With that team, how we feel it, I'd be really
Speaker 2: happy with that. I'd be really happy with that.
Speaker 3: I mean, this would be a team that, like, whatever
Speaker 3: happens happens. They're flirting with eighty plus wins, and they're
Speaker 3: fun to watch. That's the most important thing, right, Like
Speaker 3: there's hope and there's a reason to watch. And I
Speaker 3: can't emphasize enough, like trading prospects away can make the
Speaker 3: team at the big league level more fun to watch,
Speaker 3: which will give them, you know, hopefully a better turnout,
Speaker 3: better TV ratings, more money, better just better overall vibe
Speaker 3: through the through the entire organization.
Speaker 2: You got to give to get And I want to
Speaker 2: close out with just let.
Speaker 3: Me give you the twenty nineteen top ten right handed
Speaker 3: pitchers in minor league baseball. Number one was four of
Speaker 3: St Whitley. Number two was Casey Mais. Number three was
Speaker 3: Michael Kopick. Number four was Mitch Keller. Number five Dylan Sees,
Speaker 3: Mike Soroka, six, Tos Sanchez, Brent Honeywell, Kyle Wright, Hunter Green. Right,
Speaker 3: some guys that still have some upside, some good pitchers,
Speaker 3: a little bit of everything. Right, These are the top ten.
Speaker 3: These are the top top ten. And for the most part,
Speaker 3: you would go back and trade any of those guys
Speaker 3: for some of the guys we were talking about, right,
Speaker 3: I mean you would. That's kind of my point here
Speaker 3: is even if for the guys that end up working out,
Speaker 3: like if Mayer ends up being a copiic. No one's
Speaker 3: calling him a bus but I trade that in two
Speaker 3: seconds for the guys we talked about, It's not a
Speaker 3: slide of Meyer. It's more so just play the percentages.
Speaker 3: If you're playing the percentages, which the Marlins need to do,
Speaker 3: this is the time that you finally have the ability
Speaker 3: to cash in. Instead of being the team that's selling,
Speaker 3: get to be the team that is buying in the
Speaker 3: buyers almost always win. In the prospect world, it's the
Speaker 3: percentages you got to play. And I'm sorry Marlins fans
Speaker 3: sometimes it hurts a little bit, but I promise there'll
Speaker 3: be a new Darling prospect that you'll hold on to.
Speaker 2: Heck, that's already Uri Perez. Let's focus on him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And see that's why I was like when these trades
Speaker 2: were asking and I'm like, but are they like you're
Speaker 2: they might be, just it's hard to you know, contextualize
Speaker 2: in your own hand. You're like, Wow, that's just like
Speaker 2: a lot of potential, really strong arms. But I'll say
Speaker 2: it again, you're trading from the one of the biggest
Speaker 2: strengths in all of Major League Baseball, from the top
Speaker 2: of the major leagues in Sandy al Katar all the
Speaker 2: way down to rookie ball. It's it's some of the
Speaker 2: best pitching that we have in our sport. But we
Speaker 2: just played general manager of the Miami Marlins, and I
Speaker 2: think we did a really good job. So go check
Speaker 2: out Big Hall Talk Ethan's podcast. There it is. I Well,
Speaker 2: I hope I forgot to do it. Peter.
Speaker 4: I just want to say I just want to say
Speaker 4: one more thing to just kind of of course we wrap.
Speaker 4: I feel I think the Marlins are at like a
Speaker 4: B minus B right now with how they've done this offseason.
Speaker 4: Like I think the Sandy thing was huge, Starlings was big.
Speaker 4: Garcia's a pretty good move, Wendell's pretty good move. They
Speaker 4: can make this an A plus off season if they
Speaker 4: go out and get a guy like Reynolds, like Marte,
Speaker 4: even like Schwarberg Casianos. Right, they can really really fucking
Speaker 4: hit a home run this off season if they go
Speaker 4: make one more big time move and then some other.
Speaker 2: Littler moves, Like I would like to see.
Speaker 4: Them get another depth infielder so that they don't have
Speaker 4: to play Isan Diez or Devin Morero or Joe Bannock
Speaker 4: because they still might have to Their bench looks strong though, Diez,
Speaker 4: Cooper Aguilar figure it out on one day. Brian de Lacruz,
Speaker 4: I'm really high on Wendel. If they can get I
Speaker 4: would like to see them pick up one more bat
Speaker 4: like depth bat. I think Harrison's still out there. There's
Speaker 4: no way they reunite with VR. I highly highly doubt that,
Speaker 4: but I would love to see them do it.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I'm good. Yeah, I know you're good.
Speaker 4: He is a he makes some bone headed plays, but
Speaker 4: I really think that there is another out infield bat
Speaker 4: to be had. I would love still love to see them,
Speaker 4: even though they traded Wendell, I would love to see
Speaker 4: them signed Josh Harrison. Still, they have to get better
Speaker 4: from top to bottom. They can't just focus on the top.
Speaker 4: They have to focus on the bottom of the roster
Speaker 4: as well because it was so bad down there. That
Speaker 4: was a seller, and they really have to focus on
Speaker 4: getting better top to bottom, improving the whole thing. They're close, man,
Speaker 4: They're really really close. They need one or two more
Speaker 4: big impact moves. And I'm not saying they are World
Speaker 4: Series contender, but they're certainly in the playoff mix and
Speaker 4: they just need they just need to be fun next year.
Speaker 4: If they're gonna build a tour, you know this is
Speaker 4: gonna be like this next wave is gonna be like
Speaker 4: a two or three year plan with Garcia to get
Speaker 4: up to World Series level.
Speaker 2: Right, So they've had the beginning of the rebuild.
Speaker 4: Now they're kind of in this middle and they're trying
Speaker 4: to get out of this purgatory that they're kind of
Speaker 4: stuck in right. If they play some fun baseball this year,
Speaker 4: like ARM said, they flirt with eighty games, eighty five wins,
Speaker 4: whatever it is, that will be huge for them as
Speaker 4: an organization to build some back up, some goodwill with
Speaker 4: the fan base, which is a huge thing they still
Speaker 4: need to do. It's year four or five or whatever
Speaker 4: it is of this rebuild. They still have to build
Speaker 4: a lot of goodwill with this fan base because it
Speaker 4: was torn down by the last regime. So they can
Speaker 4: have a huge offseason this year and it can be
Speaker 4: a really big home run if they make a couple
Speaker 4: moves that we've talked about today.
Speaker 2: Well we just did seventy minutes on the Marlins. But
Speaker 2: if you're itching for more, go check out arms article
Speaker 2: on just baseball dot com. And if you think that
Speaker 2: I traded away all of your prospects and you want
Speaker 2: to hurt me, you want to send me some messages,
Speaker 2: you're say, what an idiot? My Twitter is at Peter
Speaker 2: Apple twenty three. I will bet you all to death.
Speaker 2: What I'm trying to do is just make this big
Speaker 2: league roster better. Because I see the pitching, I see
Speaker 2: the potential. What you guys are saying there is areas
Speaker 2: of improvement they did. I know is a COVID short
Speaker 2: and twenty twenty, but they didn't make the playoffs. This
Speaker 2: team has some sparks, Josh Chisholm is going to be better.
Speaker 2: I'm expecting another breakout from Hayes su Sanchez like there
Speaker 2: are there are areas that I see or I'm very excited.
Speaker 2: But if they don't do the trades, and if they
Speaker 2: aren't willing to get rid of any of these arms,
Speaker 2: then we'll just be stuck in a ever long purgatory.
Speaker 4: So this seventy this is like, yeah, sorry, this is
Speaker 4: like a seventy five win team right now. They need
Speaker 4: to be an eighty win eighty five win team come
Speaker 4: April first or whatever whenever opening game.
Speaker 2: Maybe I thought this was a great conversation. Go check
Speaker 2: out Ethan and arm out on Twitter. Anything else before
Speaker 2: we uh, before we leave here, folks.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me first appearance on the JB Show.
Speaker 2: Thankks so much. Ethan, we had a great time. Arm
Speaker 2: Thanks again, got your brain moving on some trades. I
Speaker 2: know it's tough, but hey, we're trying to make this
Speaker 2: team of World Series contender. But with that said, thank you, everybody,