WEBVTT - EU Electrification Push Lacks Pull: Analyst Reaction

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<v Speaker 1>This is Kamala Shelling and you're listening to Switched on

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<v Speaker 1>the Bloomberg ENNYF podcast. The European Union is planning to

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<v Speaker 1>get to net zero by twenty fifty. Legally speaking, that

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<v Speaker 1>target is binding, but achieving it is more easily said

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<v Speaker 1>than done. Not only will the block need to switch

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<v Speaker 1>over to clean sources of electricity, but it'll need people

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<v Speaker 1>to use that electricity to power their cars, heat their

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<v Speaker 1>homes and run their factories, and the electricity needs to

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<v Speaker 1>be affordable. To this end, the EU has released a

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<v Speaker 1>new policy package in two parts, an electrification action plan

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<v Speaker 1>and a proposal to future proof electricity bills. They're looking

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<v Speaker 1>at a forty six percent electrification rate block wide by

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<v Speaker 1>twenty forty. So what will it take to reach that

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<v Speaker 1>target and is it even doable?

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<v Speaker 2>Today?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm joined by Victoria Cumming, bloombergennif's head of Policy to

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<v Speaker 1>discuss your analyst reaction. EU electrification goal unreachable without more support.

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<v Speaker 1>BNF clients can find this and other relevant research by

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<v Speaker 1>heading to BNF Policy, go on the Bloomberg terminal, or

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<v Speaker 1>at BNF dot com if you'd like to learn more

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<v Speaker 1>about how BNF connects the dots of the Energy Transition.

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<v Speaker 1>Visit us at about dot bn EF dot com and

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<v Speaker 1>if you'd like to speak with a member of our

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<v Speaker 1>team about becoming a client, email us at sales do

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<v Speaker 1>bn EF. But for now, let's hear from Vicky. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>back to switch down, VICKI, it's so great to have

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<v Speaker 1>you here.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to get into all the details of this

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<v Speaker 1>new EU target in a moment, but before we get there,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to start by asking what exactly does the

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<v Speaker 1>electrification mean in a conversation like this.

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<v Speaker 2>So electrification here means switching from largely fossil fuels to

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<v Speaker 2>electricity for and use sectors, so transport, building, heat, industry,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is going to be a key pathway to

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<v Speaker 2>reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It's kind of the two slides

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<v Speaker 2>of the same coin with renewables. So we need to

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<v Speaker 2>kind of switch to a largely clean power system, but

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<v Speaker 2>we also need to switch everybody else from fossil fuels

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<v Speaker 2>to electricity.

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<v Speaker 1>And so why does the EU care about electrification right now?

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<v Speaker 1>At this point in time?

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<v Speaker 2>So it's made a fair amount of progress the EU,

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<v Speaker 2>although it varies by member states in terms of kind

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<v Speaker 2>of promoting a clean power system. Now it wants to

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<v Speaker 2>get on track to actually pushing for electrification because there

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<v Speaker 2>have been various sectors and countries that are kind of

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<v Speaker 2>lagged behind in that. And kind of overarching all of

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<v Speaker 2>this is the EUS net zero target for twenty fifty so,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a legislated target, and the EU has kind

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<v Speaker 2>of positioned itself as this global climate leader, so it

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<v Speaker 2>really would kind of to maintain its branding in that respect.

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<v Speaker 2>It nearly needs to kind of get a move on

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of boosting electrification.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, So the EU is trying to be a

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<v Speaker 1>global leader in the energy transition. They've published this big target.

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<v Speaker 1>What exactly does the target say?

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<v Speaker 2>So the package that was released on seventeenth of July

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of electrification, the main components were Electrification, an

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<v Speaker 2>action plan and a proposal to what was called future

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<v Speaker 2>proof electricity bills. So, if you give me a second,

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<v Speaker 2>just to be a policy geek for a second. So

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<v Speaker 2>that action plan is a document that's published by the

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<v Speaker 2>European Commission. It has no legislative weight in itself. It's

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<v Speaker 2>somewhat of a calendar of what the Commission plans to

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<v Speaker 2>do and could include some future legislation, the actual future

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<v Speaker 2>proof that electricity bills proposal is an actual proposal that

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<v Speaker 2>will now go to the Council of the European Union,

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<v Speaker 2>which is the Member States, and then the European Parliament

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<v Speaker 2>to be actually adopted in practice.

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<v Speaker 1>So you said initially that the twenty fifty target is

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<v Speaker 1>a quote legislated target, whereas this new one is simply

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<v Speaker 1>an action plan. So when's the difference between those two things?

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<v Speaker 2>That is a great question. So in kind of legislative terms,

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<v Speaker 2>for one of the better word, the twenty to fifty

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<v Speaker 2>net zero target is actually kind of legally binding. There's

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<v Speaker 2>always a bit of a question mark with the e

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<v Speaker 2>when it has these legally binding targets on itself what

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<v Speaker 2>happens if it doesn't achieve those targets. But in the

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<v Speaker 2>case of this electrification target that's in this action plan,

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<v Speaker 2>this is what the European Commission has termed an indicative target.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the Commission essentially saying this is what we

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<v Speaker 2>would be planning on proposing, and then we interpret it

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<v Speaker 2>as the Commission testing the waters to see what the

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<v Speaker 2>reaction is before it then does an impact assessment at

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<v Speaker 2>the end of the year. Where it's a kind of

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<v Speaker 2>an in depth study of the commission looks to see

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<v Speaker 2>what would actually be the effects of implementing such a

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<v Speaker 2>target and achieving it in theory, and then they will

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<v Speaker 2>go to the formal proposal, which would then need to

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<v Speaker 2>be adopted. So we are a long way away before

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<v Speaker 2>the EU actually has a binding electrication target.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so this remains very embryonic. Then, so this is

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<v Speaker 1>a plan for a proposal that would then turn into

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<v Speaker 1>an actual plan exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And in terms of what the actual this so called

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<v Speaker 2>indicative target it is, it's for forty six percent electrification

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<v Speaker 2>by twenty forty, So that means by twenty forty forty

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<v Speaker 2>six percent of final energy consumption needs to come from electricity.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that's feasible?

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<v Speaker 2>No, not based on not based on current policy and

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<v Speaker 2>current trends. As listeners may know, Bloomberg NIF does an

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<v Speaker 2>annual New Energy Outlook in which we have two long

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<v Speaker 2>term scenarios for energy system are kind of economics driven

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<v Speaker 2>based case is called the economic transition scenario, and that

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<v Speaker 2>estimates that the EU, Norway and Switzerland reach about twenty

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<v Speaker 2>eight percent by twenty forty. So that's a long way

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<v Speaker 2>away from this forty six percent.

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<v Speaker 1>What about our net zero scenario? How far does that

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<v Speaker 1>get us?

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<v Speaker 2>So our net zero scenarios are kind of credible, but

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<v Speaker 2>maximum effort Note that maximum effort and pathway to net zero,

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<v Speaker 2>and in that the EU, Norway and Switzerland reach only

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<v Speaker 2>thirty nine percent, so still far away from this forty

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<v Speaker 2>six percent indicative target.

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<v Speaker 1>It wow, So maximum effort gets us we think thirty

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<v Speaker 1>nine percent electrification of final energy consumption, and the EU

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<v Speaker 1>is now targeting forty six that's closer than the economic

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<v Speaker 1>transition scenario. But the other thing about the net zero scenario,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, is that it's really really expensive. So if

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<v Speaker 1>I recall correctly, I think the endzs the net zero

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<v Speaker 1>scenario requires about one point two trillion dollars each year

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<v Speaker 1>of energy a transition investment between today and twenty fifty

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<v Speaker 1>to be on track for that. And last year the EU,

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<v Speaker 1>Switzerland and Norway put about four hundred and seventy seven billions,

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<v Speaker 1>So that's less than half one point two trillion toward

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<v Speaker 1>the energy transition. So whether or not it's technically feasible,

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<v Speaker 1>is it financially feasible?

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<v Speaker 2>No? Not, based on current policy support and trends. So

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<v Speaker 2>the issue that we have is that this action plan

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<v Speaker 2>and also other policy support that's been implemented by Member

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<v Speaker 2>states and by the EU, does not put it on

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<v Speaker 2>track to anywhere near the scale up of electrication that

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<v Speaker 2>their Commission is anticipating. In terms of the plan itself

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<v Speaker 2>that was published last month, it's largely relies on these

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<v Speaker 2>kind of voluntary measures implemented by the EU but also

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<v Speaker 2>by Member states, kind of future legislative reviews and very

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<v Speaker 2>modest regulatory changes. It introduces very little meaningful concrete support,

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<v Speaker 2>So by that we mean things like here's some actual

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<v Speaker 2>money to do stuff, or here are some rules you

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<v Speaker 2>need to follow that actually promote electrification. So, based on

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<v Speaker 2>this action plan and current policy support, the other thing

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<v Speaker 2>is to flag is that if the EU is planning

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<v Speaker 2>to put all of this kind of onus on the

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<v Speaker 2>member states, Member states in recent years plus the EU

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<v Speaker 2>have also rolled back a fair amount of support for

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<v Speaker 2>electric vehicles and heat pumps, which we key to promoting

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<v Speaker 2>their deployment to actually achieve this electrication target. So we're

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<v Speaker 2>really not in a position to achieve this target at all.

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<v Speaker 1>So, because you're talking about policy support and financial support

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<v Speaker 1>for consumers as well as industries. Something you've been talking

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<v Speaker 1>about really the start of the Iron War is policy

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<v Speaker 1>makers in the EU and elsewhere are now being pushed

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<v Speaker 1>very hard to make sure they lower energy prices for consumers,

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<v Speaker 1>for rate payers, and you're trying to tell them but

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<v Speaker 1>while you're doing this, don't undermine your climate targets. Now

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<v Speaker 1>is not the time to roll back our climate ambitions.

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<v Speaker 1>But what's interesting to me about what you're saying is

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<v Speaker 1>it sounds like this particular climate target will only work

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<v Speaker 1>if electricity isn't too expensive. So has the EU released

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<v Speaker 1>any practical plans for tackling that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, absolutely, it's a question of electricity not being too expensive.

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<v Speaker 2>But crucially it's relationship with fossil fuels, because if you

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<v Speaker 2>have really cheap gas available to consumers and much more

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<v Speaker 2>expensive electricity, it's going to be hard to persuade them

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<v Speaker 2>to actually switch, for example, from a gas boiler to

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<v Speaker 2>a heat pump. There are other barriers, but that's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a key one for consumers. So the EU has

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<v Speaker 2>been working for i'd say quite some time on how

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<v Speaker 2>to rebalance these electricity versus gas prices for consumers. So

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<v Speaker 2>alongside this electrification action plan, it published this future Proof

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<v Speaker 2>Electricity Bill proposal. Now, what's interesting about that and allow

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<v Speaker 2>me to become a policy GEC once again. The EU

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<v Speaker 2>has somewhat limited scope as to what it can do

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<v Speaker 2>with regard to taxation because it's largely within the remit

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<v Speaker 2>of member states, and the Commission has been pushing for

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<v Speaker 2>some years now to completely revise the Energy Taxation Directive

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<v Speaker 2>so that, as it sounds, is a policy, legislative policy

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<v Speaker 2>that actually affects the prices that consumers pay for electricity

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<v Speaker 2>and gas. But because changing that directive requires agreement all

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seven member states, and that is very difficult, especially

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<v Speaker 2>when member states have are centifized to kind of not

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<v Speaker 2>make those changes because they think that it's within their

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<v Speaker 2>remit to do so. So those kind of efforts have

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<v Speaker 2>fallen by the wayside, and instead they've released this proposal.

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<v Speaker 2>Its main component with regard to electricity bills is to

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<v Speaker 2>look at excise duties to ensure that member states don't

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<v Speaker 2>impose higher excise duties on electricity as they do on gas.

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<v Speaker 1>What is an XYZ duty?

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<v Speaker 2>This is a good question. So excise duties are essentially

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<v Speaker 2>a production weighted tax. It's one of the levees that

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<v Speaker 2>we pay for consuming electricity and gas, and it is

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<v Speaker 2>one very small component of our retail electricity prices, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's why we don't think that even if this proposal

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<v Speaker 2>is actually adopted, it will have a big impact on

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<v Speaker 2>electricity bills. So the kind of biggest components of the

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<v Speaker 2>prices that we as consumers pay are wholesale costs. So

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<v Speaker 2>the costs of actually procuring energy from the wholesale market,

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<v Speaker 2>network costs, so that's paying for kind of the grid infrastructure,

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<v Speaker 2>and then these policy costs and taxes. Now, the issue

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<v Speaker 2>that we have is that while our market outlooks suspect

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<v Speaker 2>that wholesale prices in many European markets will decline over time,

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<v Speaker 2>the big question what we have is what happens to

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<v Speaker 2>network charges. Because the energy is transition and in general

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to require enormous future investment in the grid

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<v Speaker 2>and who pays for that. In the EU, it requires

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<v Speaker 2>that a large chunk of that is paid by consumers.

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<v Speaker 2>So another part of this proposal is to for member

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<v Speaker 2>states to promote demand side flexibility.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is fascinating because in a way it sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like the energy transition and efforts to electrify have caught

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<v Speaker 1>us in a feedback loop where we need more electricity

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<v Speaker 1>to meet the new demand that is being encouraged by

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<v Speaker 1>bills like this, which means that we need a more

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<v Speaker 1>robust grid because we've written a lot about how the

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<v Speaker 1>grid just can't handle all this new electricity that's coming

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<v Speaker 1>on to it. The way we pay for making the

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<v Speaker 1>grid more robust is we raise the network charge part

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<v Speaker 1>of consumer electricity bills. So even if the wholesale rate

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<v Speaker 1>for electricity is coming down, bills are getting more expensive

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<v Speaker 1>because since everybody wants electricity now, we need to build

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<v Speaker 1>out the grid.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that right, Yes, exactly, So, as part of this proposal,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the overall aims is to promote better grid utilization,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's using the existing gried better to reduce the

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<v Speaker 2>idea is future the need for future investment. However, most

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<v Speaker 2>of the components within the actual proposal we don't expect

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<v Speaker 2>to have a significant impact. The potential impact largely depends

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<v Speaker 2>on the regulatory frameworks that are in place in member

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<v Speaker 2>states with regard to that or grid operators. So in

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<v Speaker 2>some cases, for example, and historically it's been the case

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<v Speaker 2>that grid operators are incentivized to undertake more capital expenditure

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.600
<v Speaker 2>than operating expenditure, but actually encouraging these what they call

0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.120
<v Speaker 2>non wires alternatives, essentially not building a whole lot of staff.

0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.440
<v Speaker 2>They're not necessarily incentivized to do that through regulatory frameworks,

0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.120
<v Speaker 2>So there's going to be more work required at member

0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:52.320
<v Speaker 2>state level to actually kind of promote this better grid utilization.

0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm so glad you brought up the member state level

0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:56.600
<v Speaker 1>because you can probably tell from my accent, I'm from

0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.600
<v Speaker 1>a country that has a federal system with a big

0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.880
<v Speaker 1>overarching federal law and then US member state flaws that

0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.440
<v Speaker 1>function differently. The EU is kind of the same but

0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.360
<v Speaker 1>also quite different. So can you talk about how this

0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.360
<v Speaker 1>EU level plan then has to triggle down into the

0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.240
<v Speaker 1>member states, how they potentially implement it, and then as

0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.200
<v Speaker 1>part of that, what would it take to actually deliver

0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:19.400
<v Speaker 1>on these ambitions.

0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.000
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, as you say, the EU system is kind

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.160
<v Speaker 2>of similar but kind of different to the US. There

0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:30.080
<v Speaker 2>are my understanding, similar to the US, there are certain

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.160
<v Speaker 2>policy topics that are governed at EU level and government

0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.880
<v Speaker 2>it's governed at member state level. In terms of this

0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.760
<v Speaker 2>actual action plan, most of the measures within it are

0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.800
<v Speaker 2>voluntary and are up to the member states to implement

0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.520
<v Speaker 2>or not. There are some components referenced in it, and

0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:51.040
<v Speaker 2>this proposal about electricity bills that would be legislated at

0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:55.000
<v Speaker 2>EU level. Now, interestingly, this one is a regulation and

0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.959
<v Speaker 2>an EU regulation. Once it's approved at EU level, it

0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.960
<v Speaker 2>automatically applies a national level. If it's a directive, which

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.199
<v Speaker 2>a fair number of for example, the Renewable Energy Directive

0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.600
<v Speaker 2>energy Efficiency Directive. So there are quite a few of

0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.560
<v Speaker 2>these types of policies that relate to energy and climate.

0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.800
<v Speaker 2>In that case, they're adopted at EU level, but then

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 2>they need to be what's called transposed, so that means

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.520
<v Speaker 2>implemented into national law. And the interesting thing about that

0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.720
<v Speaker 2>is that's where we get some wiggle room for member

0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.240
<v Speaker 2>states to interpret those policies as they seem fit and

0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.640
<v Speaker 2>we get some of these cross member state differences. When

0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:35.640
<v Speaker 2>it comes to actually funding, there are some pots of

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 2>EU level funding, but in large part the kind of

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:42.480
<v Speaker 2>financial incentives that will be required to promote heat electric

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.000
<v Speaker 2>vehicle deployment as well as industrial electrication, a lot of

0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.920
<v Speaker 2>that funding will need to come from member state governments.

0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 2>So one of the barriers that we have is a

0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.680
<v Speaker 2>as I mentioned, a fair few of them kind of

0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.160
<v Speaker 2>undertaking these policy rollbacks in the last eighteen months. We've

0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.160
<v Speaker 2>also seen in certain members states a shift to the

0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.880
<v Speaker 2>political rights which those parties tend to be less supportive

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.320
<v Speaker 2>of the energy transition. And there are various other major

0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:12.680
<v Speaker 2>member states that face severe fiscal issues, so they actually

0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.960
<v Speaker 2>just have limited budget to spend on all this financial

0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.920
<v Speaker 2>support and really in the growth. The package that was

0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:25.120
<v Speaker 2>released on July seventeenth focuses on operating costs, so essentially,

0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:27.760
<v Speaker 2>how much does it cost for consumers to fuel for

0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 2>want of better work, their electric vehicle heat pump. And

0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 2>the challenge with that is that, especially for heat pumps

0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.680
<v Speaker 2>and electric vehicles, that's just one of the cost components

0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.520
<v Speaker 2>and it is much less than capital expend the KAPEX costs,

0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 2>and the package does very little to actually incentivize kind

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 2>of reductions in capital costs, and that is the real

0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 2>challenge that we face. It could have more of an

0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.520
<v Speaker 2>impact if Member states actually do stuff on terms of

0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 2>industrial actification because for many industries and the kind of

0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:00.000
<v Speaker 2>fuel costs are a much larger component of the TOE

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 2>tool costs. But we really need to promote this deployment

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.120
<v Speaker 2>of heat pumps and electric vehicles, and the July seventeenth

0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.840
<v Speaker 2>package just very limited to progress in that respect.

0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.640
<v Speaker 1>I feel like what we're talking about here is an

0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.400
<v Speaker 1>energy transition hydro where we solve one problem, we cut

0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.880
<v Speaker 1>off one head, and three new heads appear. Right. So,

0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.400
<v Speaker 1>like we've put out this plan for a proposal for

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:24.200
<v Speaker 1>maybe a plan really ambitious targets, but to actually get

0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.240
<v Speaker 1>that up and running, we're going to need to convince

0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.200
<v Speaker 1>people to adopt the technologies. We're going to have to

0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 1>fund it, and some of the members says, are having

0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.840
<v Speaker 1>fiscal issues. We have politics that we have to battle,

0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:35.880
<v Speaker 1>and then we also simply have to battle the EU

0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.040
<v Speaker 1>legislative process, which is really really complicated. So win this

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.680
<v Speaker 1>now four headed hydra in the place of our one

0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.640
<v Speaker 1>headed target that we started the conversation with. As a

0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.520
<v Speaker 1>final question, what's next on the agenda and what should

0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.040
<v Speaker 1>our listeners be watching for the EU to do next?

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.800
<v Speaker 2>So what's coming up? Well, the European Commission does like

0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.760
<v Speaker 2>to release a big legislative package just before Christmas, and

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.160
<v Speaker 2>we have one coming up in December when there's going

0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:07.840
<v Speaker 2>to be policies released around renewable energy energy efficiency the

0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:12.440
<v Speaker 2>framework for actually achieving its relatively new twenty forty emissions targets,

0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.680
<v Speaker 2>and various member states have said that they are reluctant

0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.840
<v Speaker 2>to commit to an electrification target or indeed the reforms

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.720
<v Speaker 2>to the emissions trading system that were also released on

0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:25.800
<v Speaker 2>July seventeen, until they see some of these kind of

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.159
<v Speaker 2>newer policies about renewables, and so I think for kind

0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 2>of industries perspective, they would really like to see a

0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:36.959
<v Speaker 2>more kind of cohesive approach across the energy transition sectors

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.879
<v Speaker 2>taking account kind of emissions, because it's hard to commit

0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.720
<v Speaker 2>to one thing without knowing that permutations of all the

0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:44.760
<v Speaker 2>other things. And there are a bunch of other kind

0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.160
<v Speaker 2>of more sector specific policies that are due out by

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.040
<v Speaker 2>year end. So the Commission has a lot of work

0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:50.320
<v Speaker 2>to do.

0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Fantastic, So all eyes on December at this point, VICKI,

0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:55.879
<v Speaker 1>it is always such a pleasure to speak with you.

0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for.

0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.199
<v Speaker 2>Coming on, no problem, thank you for having me.

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.359
<v Speaker 1>Today's episode of Switched On was produced by Cam Gray

0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.280
<v Speaker 1>with production assistance from Kamala Shelling. Bloomberg NIF is a

0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.439
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0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.199
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0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:25.000
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0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.919
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0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.720
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