WEBVTT - Poison Pills 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:05.160 What you have described here. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:12.360 Sounds like a recipe for disaster, a situation where we 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:19.079 have an individual being placed in charge of multiple people's lives. 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:25.440 Doctor Kristen Damse O'Connor is a neuropsychologist at Mount Sinai 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.480 Hospital in New York. She's an expert on the effects 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:31.600 of brain injury on military veterans. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:37.559 I've never met or evaluated this individual, but from what 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:42.280 I've been told, it sounds like there was alcohol, sleeping pills, 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:47.720 and days and days of sleep deprivation. You're mixing up 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:49.120 quite a cocktail here. 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:54.360 Doctor Miguel Escalone, a colleague of Damse O'Connor, agrees with 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.600 her assessment. Neither doctor has examined staff Sergeant Robert Bales, 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.520 but they've both seen the devastating effects of TBI and 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:03.000 their patients time again. 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:05.560 I think it's common sense to say, if you take 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:09.920 someone who attends towards a violence, might have PTSD, all 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.800 these kinds of things, and you give them something that 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:16.240 could make them even more violent, could be a catastrophic situation. 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:21.560 Previously on the war with. 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.200 It now looking back, and I think I had a 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:25.240 few concussions. 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.840 Bob told me that he had been blown up nine times. 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:32.680 A traumatic brain injury can happen when there is an 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:38.040 external force that results in an alteration and mental status. 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:40.880 I call it an invisible disability. Your brain is not 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:42.360 built to take that kind of punishment. 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.479 You can't explain this irrational activity looking at it from 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:47.840 normal eyes. 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.320 Bales is like running around with a chicken with a 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:51.000 fucking headcover. 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.880 I reguard that night, I'll see some flashing lights to 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:55.960 the north. You have to go out and try to 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:56.880 stop that threat. 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.720 I'm Mike McGinnis. This is the war with it The 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:12.639 Robert Bayles story. Robert Bayles's legal defense did not utilize 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.760 the staff sergeant's history of traumatic brain injury to fight 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.200 for his innocence in perpetrating the Canaharm massacre, even though 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.160 many expected them to do so, such as legal analyst 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:24.880 Jeff Tubin speaking here to CNN. 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:31.040 The subjective is to establish that Bails is a very 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:35.760 damaged man psychologically. He is someone who is not fully 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.360 responsible for his own actions. And given that the defense 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.400 appears to have something to work with the fact that 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:45.160 he had had a serious head injury, that may be 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:50.240 what gets this case to a resolution that involves something 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:51.160 other than execution. 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:55.600 Ultimately, defense Attorney John Henry Brown was able to negotiate 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.200 a plea deal without playing the mental health card, which 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.560 would have implicated that the Army was culpable for sending 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:03.959 Bails back into the field. 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:08.560 It became apparent that Bobby was the product of the 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.239 government and that he was just a classic soldier that 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.720 had been forgotten in Very little assistance was given to 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.840 him when he had his injuries. But we had to 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.560 make a decision that no, we better just you know, 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.200 don tell the whole truth of what happened, because the 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:32.240 Army will get pissed and he'll get the death penalty. 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.080 There's another reason why an argument built around Robert Bales's 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.040 brain may not have held up at court. Most people 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.120 can agree that the staff sergeant was not his right 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.560 mind on the night of March eleventh, twenty twelve. But 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.040 whether the military industrial complex is responsible for his heightened state, 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:49.040 that's a fur debate. 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.680 We were drinking some booze, a twenty one ounce Pepsi 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.600 bottle full of whiskey, and you know, three guys over 0:03:58.000 --> 0:03:59.760 two and a half hours. You know, we worked it 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.640 out like seven drinks per guy. This is ten o'clock. 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:08.160 Maybe you know, we watch a man on fire. I 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.640 get up, I try to go to bed, I go in, 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:12.880 I take some sleeping pills. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.040 The army might have been negligent in handling his tvis, 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:23.440 but getting intoxicated on this kinetic deployment was Bales's own 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:29.279 decision and against the rules. Private James Alexander recalls that 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:33.760 sleeping pills weren't even available to the other soldiers. At 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:34.799 VSP Bellingby. 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.960 We had a medshd where you had fentanyl and all 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.640 kinds of shit that was in there, and the person 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.960 that was in charge of it was our medics, right, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.719 and so Bales's sergeant, he's in charge of the medics, 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:53.640 so he could get whatever the hell he wanted. He 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.480 talks about not being able to sleep, so he got 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:56.119 sleep nets. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:57.360 It's like damn. 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:59.400 Okay, Like, you know, I wish that was an option, 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.440 because not all could sleep, but we didn't all have 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.440 the ability just to like go to the candy store 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:04.559 and take whatever the hell we wanted. 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.159 Alexander's comments are in line with those of Bob's wife, 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:14.880 Carrie Vails that Bob relied on substances more than he should. 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:16.960 He was a drinker. 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.880 He went to Ohio State, right, he partied a lot. 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.880 I think that's how alcohol came into his life. And 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.000 then I think he liked to party it up with 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:30.160 his guys as well. I think that maybe after his 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.599 second deployment and third deployment, there were times when he 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:37.120 would just kind of zone out and drink to I 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:37.800 think forget. 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.880 Honestly, you know, I'd go out on a back porch 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.400 when we lived in Lake Tabs and you know, I 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.120 just said, and I mean that's kind of an alcoholism 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.440 thing too. You know, I'd sit there in a back 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.760 porch and you know, just drink, you know, I mean, 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:52.160 I didn't want to be around anybody. 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:54.440 I think he was in pain. 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.479 And those times when he would go off by himself 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.440 and have a few drinks and smoke his cigars. I 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.440 think there were times when you would drink to obviously 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:03.640 make the pain go away. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.800 Doctor's Damse O'Connor and Escaloone shed light on how TBI 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:16.159 and addiction can often go hand in hand, compounding the 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:17.720 symptoms of each affliction. 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:19.760 Alcohol use. 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:26.120 Substance use is often more common among soldiers who have 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:31.360 sustained a traumatic brain injury. Substances like alcohol can be 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:32.839 a coping mechanism. 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:34.400 It's a way of self medicating. 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.359 It's a way of turning off all of the enormous 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.520 stressors that a person can be exposed to. 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:43.160 In a combat zone. 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.600 You're much more likely to get addicted and to not 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.279 be able to stop yourself because you've lost that inhibition. 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.880 If you've lost the ability to tell yourself no, you're 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:52.640 going to get hooked. 0:06:55.240 --> 0:07:00.240 So we're in country in Afghanistan. It's either Christmas or 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:06.320 New Year's. They start shooting off flares like celebrate right. 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.080 They were shooting red and green up into the air, 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:16.640 and all of the infantry NCOs are drinking or are drunk. 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:18.840 We didn't know what they were up to. We just 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:20.400 assumed they were doing the right thing like we were. 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:25.080 James Alexander sent us the following video from that Christmas night, 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.360 which he took on his cell phone. But soldiers are 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.400 firing flares into the sky like fireworks. For a group 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.440 that was tasked with living alongside Afghan farming villages, they 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:36.240 aren't being subtle. 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:38.400 Bobber I even. 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:44.440 Met at Hey, you're good, big Pepper, did not shoot here, 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:45.520 whapon you're a fag. 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.440 That was Bales, who used the word I won't repeat here. 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:57.120 Apparently getting drunk was normalized. That fell them by so 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.480 much so that Private Gavin Jones doesn't recall the infantrydership 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.600 or NCOs doing much to mask their in sobriety. 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:06.360 You know, they'd come over just to check in with 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.120 us and have like really hard to heart talks, and 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.640 you know it's something that a drug person does, you know, 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:13.080 like an I love you bros. 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:13.600 Situation. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.040 They'd be coming over from their huts and be like, hey, guys, 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.160 just want to make sure that everything's doing okay. A 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:19.800 few of those and you could tell that there was. 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:21.120 They were getting wild over there. 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.760 Alexander and Jones were privates lowest on the total poll. 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:28.640 They didn't have the standing to tell their NCOs to 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:33.200 stop drinking. Green Beret Captain Danny Fields was the person 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.240 who was responsible for making sure nothing got out of hand. 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.680 I don't think I'm sharing any secrets here to say 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.560 that Green Berets will have some kind of alcohol on 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:41.960 their base. 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:43.040 Now. 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.200 It was also god of big boy rules. You play 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:46.959 by the rules. 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.640 If you're drinking, I don't want to know about it, 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:51.480 but you're also doing it responsibly. 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.319 To be clear. Fields in his group were Special Forces 0:08:55.760 --> 0:09:01.920 or SF as elite high priority soldiers. Military regulations are 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:03.840 usually more relaxed for them. 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.760 I made it very clear with the team that the 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.040 only people that would be drinking would be the SF guys. 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.960 Now what they did after I said that, You know, 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:14.760 I have no idea. 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:16.880 Yeah, I think some of that has probably come to light. 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.400 Alcohol seemed to be available to almost anyone who wanted 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:24.520 it at VSP bellumby Captain Field's outlines how some soldiers 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.320 managed to transport it to Afghanistan. 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:28.800 If people want something, they're going to find a way 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.800 to get it. A pretty common way to get alcohol 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:33.040 on a base. 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.400 Is that people will mail it. 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:39.840 They're not going to maybe mail a bottle of Jack Daniels, Like, 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.000 here's what I've heard is a bottle of like mouthwash, 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.120 and that's vodka. And in that maybe you even put 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.280 some some blue or green food coloring in there to 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.320 make it look more like mouthwash, and that gets shipped 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.680 and goes overseas and shows up in somebody's care package. 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.319 John Henry Brown seems to think the liquor came from 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:04.000 the Special Forces, after all, Bellaby was their base. Furthermore, 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.960 Baiales's lawyer surmises that alcohol wasn't the only illicit substance 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:09.840 used and distributed by the SF. 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:14.000 It just seemed fundamentally unfair to me someone who was 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.960 provided alcohol and drugs by the Special Forces should be 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.800 treated the way he was being treated. You know, they 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.600 had what they called the drug store and the SF campground, 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.240 which was any drug you wanted was in this box, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:33.239 and Bobby would use them, and he was given steroids 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:34.000 by the SF. 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:40.120 So it started taking the steroids probably early February. 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:41.320 They were pretty amazing. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.679 The joint pain goes away, like it's an amazing thing 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.480 to not feel joint pain. You know, it's an amazing thing 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.000 to feel better. You know, you're out there doing patrols. 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:50.240 You know, I'm an old man. 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.400 I'm thirty eight years old at the time. You know 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.400 you're carrying, you know, one hundred pounds sometimes. 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:55.720 On your back. 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:57.640 You know, you're doing what you can to keep up, 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.280 and so I'm not going to apologize for that. 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:05.160 According to Bales, about a month before committing the Canahar massacre, 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:10.120 he started taking stenoza law, a synthetic steroid derived from testosterone, 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.440 just like in pro sports. An authorized use of steroids 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:18.280 is not allowed in the armed forces, according to the privates, 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:19.840 that didn't stop Bales. 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.360 I remember like multiple times he mentioned like doing some 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.440 steroids and if we ever needed something that like he's 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.360 he's got our backs. But it wasn't necessarily put like 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.240 straight to us, like hey you want steroids, but like, hey, 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:33.480 you know, if you ever need anything, you know, I 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:34.400 got you squared away. 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.520 We would work out and he'd just come in and 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:43.000 start trying to wrap three fifteen and it's like all right, dude, 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.040 like let's see how this goes. And he'd be able 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.559 to get like half a rep and like you could 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:54.959 physically see him ballooning as he was taking the steroids. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.800 Similar to alcohol. Prohibition of steroids is a rule that's 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:03.480 often ignored by deploy soldiers, as Panchway podcast host Curtis 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:05.280 Grace explains. 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.520 I know a lot of people that did it. Steroids 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.720 isn't one of the things that's tested for on a 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.120 normal drug test. You have to test specifically for steroids. 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.120 So unless they have reason to believe that their guys 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:17.440 are doing steroids, they don't test for it. 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.560 Do SF guys use steroids? Yeah, I mean I think 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:26.160 that's fairly common. I don't think that's a big secret. 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:31.080 Were there people using it on our VSP, probably yeah, 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.880 but again not I wouldn't say widespread or really well known. 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:36.120 It's not like it was advertised. 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.680 If it was being used, whether that resulted in, you know, 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:43.520 poor leadership or just some poor decisions, I don't know. 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.400 The potential side effects of steroids like stenols a law 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:59.880 are well documented, hormonal and balances, headaches, difficulty sleeping. Most notably, 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:05.320 numerous studies have found links between steroids and aggression. Some 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:06.920 call it roid rage. 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.480 You know about the time that bails be the shit 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.439 out of that jingle truck driver, right, that. 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:17.199 Was definitely like another steroid moment for sure, void rage 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:18.160 or whatever. 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:20.720 The privates are referring to. An incident from the middle 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:25.000 of February twenty twelve. Bales had started his steroid regimen 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.840 a week or two prior when a truck arrived at 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.360 VSP Bellumby to make a regularly scheduled delivery. 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.120 So we are getting resupplied by Afghan truck drivers. Halfcan 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.600 truck driver. We're there unloading a bunch of food. 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:38.840 When you're in an. 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.840 Area like this, everybody does every job, all hands on 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:42.760 that kind of thing. 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.840 I'm down the chain of the truck. The driver of 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:47.920 the truck is the first one touching everything. So he's 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.040 moving stuff down the saine. And as he's doing so, 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.920 he's moving quicker than bails can grab the stuff. 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.960 And I'm the last guy on the truck and we're 0:13:58.000 --> 0:13:58.720 having fun with it. 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:00.840 We're throwing boxes to each other. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:01.400 Right. 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:05.960 So the first time the guy he throws they're twenty 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.319 four ounds soup cans and there's twelve in a bundle, 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.920 smacks me right across a jaw. And I mean, first 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:12.760 time it was funny. 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.679 Dales kind of like yells at him, like, don't hit 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.920 me again. Right, But the guy doesn't speak English. He 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.640 has no idea what you're doing. And so the driver, 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.520 you know, goes back immediately to start unloading his truck, 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:26.000 Like what's the big deal, bro, Like keep. 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.160 It moving, you know, I'm seeing stars, you know. But 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:28.800 I understood. 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.520 He is in a hurry because he doesn't want to 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.280 be the Afghanis truck driver stuck in Belling by Afghanistan. 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.600 When lights go out, when it gets dark outside, he's 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:37.320 gotta die. 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:39.800 He just delivered goods to Americans? Are you kidding? 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.800 So we're we're unloading again, and he does it again, 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:46.160 smacks me right in ahead. 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:48.240 Well, I turn around and. 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.600 He's just laughing his ass off, you know, He's just 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.520 in the truck, just laughing, and I'm like, nah. 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.440 Dales turns around and starts punching the dude in the 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:01.400 face and wrestling with him inside it this truck, and 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.800 I'm just like, what the hell is going on? 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.200 You know, he's a typical after anyways, probably one hundred pounds, 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.840 you know. So he goes straight down and so once 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.760 he went down, you know, the knees started hitting and 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:17.640 I put his lip through his tooth and then, you know, 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.760 I kind of like caught myself when I stopped, and 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:20.840 I was like, okay, that's enough. 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:25.440 But I eventually got pulled out of the truck, calmed down, 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.000 and the truck driver's bleeding, you know, and he's yelling 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:29.560 and whatever. 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:31.800 I felt bad about it. So we got him cleaned 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.160 up and I offered the guy sixty bucks. 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.000 His first like words are like, oh man, like, what 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:37.720 are they gonna do to me? 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:39.480 You think I'm gonna be okay? Like, don't say anything 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:41.120 to the guys. What are we gonna tell them? He's 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:42.880 talking about the guys, He's talking about the SF crew. 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.200 I don't know if that truck driver needs some kind 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.120 of complaint. I think it might have just been just 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:48.160 brushed under the rug. 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:57.320 Many years later, Soldier X believes that in hindsight, it's 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.560 hard not to see this altercation with the truck driver 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:00.840 as a warning sign. 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.520 When I saw that happen, I thought it was stupid. 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.359 Pe Durvale thought was stupid. Two I thoughably got reprimanded 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.560 by the SF commander wherever they pulled him aside, like 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.320 you know, what the hell, dude, I hold on with 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.640 that juble truck in st pretty pretty hard, because I 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:19.760 do feel like maybe the I past shows stup in 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.840 and pulled my trade command. You know, this is the 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:23.760 first straw and the lead you down a bunch of 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:24.680 straws being broken. 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:30.200 When Robert Bales left the VSP on March eleventh, twenty twelve, 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.840 his brain had lost the ability to reach equilibrium. That's 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:40.000 almost indisputable, but isolating the specific factors that contributed to 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.720 his mental state is not so simple. As doctor Kristen 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:45.080 Dams O'Connor, at. 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.320 Tests, you are looking at the sum total of a 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:55.520 person's lifetime set of brain injuries, systemic health conditions, many 0:16:55.600 --> 0:17:01.280 of which have implications for brain pathology, and we are 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:09.280 trying to disentangle the unique contributions of distinct circumstances to 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:10.160 the brain. 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.320 The military's prosecutor of the Bails case, Jane Moores, is 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.960 convinced that alcohol and steroids alone can't be used as 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.120 a reasonable excuse for the murder of sixteen civilians. 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.480 So there were allegations proven that there was alcohol on 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.879 the base that there was some steroid use. This was 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:36.359 not important from my point of view as the criminal prosecutor. Steroids, alcohol, 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.520 and benadryl is what he was taking. There was no 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.720 evidence to suggest that that combination together, or any of 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.359 those things by themselves affected his ability to know what 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.520 he was doing and to do what he did, zero question. 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:50.800 In my mind. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.760 Robert Byales actually agrees with Morse on this point. 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.560 Yes, I believe that the steroids may have had in effect. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.719 Yes I believe that, you know, the sleeping pills had 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.720 an effect. Yes, I believe not sleeping for you know 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:08.320 a period of time had an effect. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.359 But at the end of the day, it's a mitigating factor, 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.520 but it's not. It doesn't absolve me of what I did. 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.960 The question remains, how do you get beyond mitigating factor? 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:26.679 How do you get time solution? 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.080 Okay, yeah, make sure that you and I are really 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.600 on the same page, and that is we need legal 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:35.600 hooks that they could hanger head. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.720 A of course, yesday. 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:39.600 I mean, we scoured the record. 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.199 Now we've got mathacline that changed the whole thing. 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:43.720 We're back in the game. 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:44.160 We're back. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:45.200 We can go for all of it. 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:45.760 Right. 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:48.920 That moral aspect of it is what I believe in 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.080 my heart is going to change the opinion of not 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:53.800 only a panel, but of the rest of the world. 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.600 And so if we do that, then I believe people say, well, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.280 he may not have had authority to leave that PSP, 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.800 but the reason that he did that anyway was because 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:06.679 of this methloquan. 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:12.560 We spent a lot of time on elements of this 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.399 case that might explain Robert Bales's motivations and mindset in 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:20.879 carrying out the candaharm massacred, potential connections between the victims 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:27.080 and the Taliban, traumatic brain injury in PTSD, alcohol, sleeping pills, 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:31.600 and steroids. The problem is none of these elements would 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.280 exonerate Bails in a court of law. Perhaps that's one 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.840 reason why many lawyers would have hesitated to take him 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.359 as a client in the year since his conviction, but 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:42.800 not Attorney John Mayer. 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.160 When the case was presented to me, eleven firms passed 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.240 on it. Most firms said, there's nothing we can do. 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.280 You just got to go to your time, man, whereas 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.520 I was of the mindset to say, well, what can 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.600 we do? And candidly, we don't get paid as handsomely 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:03.639 as the market would probably dictate. But you do it 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.720 for love, you do it for fulfillment. You do it 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.000 because you're soldier. You're an officer. You're not gonna let 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:10.320 you guys. 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.760 Don Maer knows the military's legal system about as well 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.640 as anybody. During his twenty years of service, he spent 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:22.520 time as a judge advocate for the Army, working criminal cases. Essentially, 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.040 his role was similar to that of Lieutenant Colonel J. 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:26.480 Morse and the Bails trial. 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:30.679 I'm a former prosecutor. We were taught as judge advocates, 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.720 and you're obligated to find the truth before you bring 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.679 these cases. It's an American soldier sitting over there. 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:38.920 It's our guys. 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.920 We're a team. Only when you are convinced that we 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.239 can prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt and it's 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:51.680 the best interest of the army and the soldier, only 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:52.879 then do we bring cases. 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:56.840 Nowadays, mar sits on the opposite side of the room 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:01.520 during courts martial defending alleged American war criminals. He's handled 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:03.199 a bail's appeal since twenty fifteen. 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:05.679 In that time, he's. 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:09.120 Uncovered a novel, unexplored angle to this heavily screwed nice case. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.880 It's a defense we're never provided with meflquin. How can 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.040