1 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're 2 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: listening to Software Radio Special Operations, military news and straight 3 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: talk with the guys and the community. Hello again, everyone, 4 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Software Radio, Software Radio on Time, on Target. 5 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: I'm your host today, Steve blast Uri. We have a 6 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: very special guest joining us. He's already online with us 7 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: right now. We have Mike Hayes, former commander of Sale 8 00:00:55,280 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: Team two. Mike has had a tremendously experienced Unlike most 9 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: of the other special operators you'll uh meet or talk to, um, 10 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: Mike's done it all. I mean he was boots on 11 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: the ground as a Navy seal. He's you know, uh, 12 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: He's done his time in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. 13 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: He's been held a gun point, threatened with execution in 14 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: South America, I mean, jumped out of a building getting 15 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: ready to explode. He's done so many different things. And 16 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: he's also run White House situation room meetings and helped 17 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: us uh negotiate a treaty. I mean, he's done it all. 18 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 1: He's just recently written a book called Never Enough, and 19 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: it was a fascinating read because there's so many different 20 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: stories in there that I think will resonate with all 21 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: of our listeners. But before we get into all that, 22 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: we want to welcome Mike to the podcast. Mike, thank 23 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: you for taking the time this morning with us. We 24 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: really appreciate you, uh joining us here on softwarep Idea. Steve, 25 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: thank you for having me, and thank you for this 26 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: incredible mission that that you and soft rep Radio support. 27 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: This is the most special community that are our nation has. 28 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: We have lots of really incredible people in the soft 29 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: community and nothing is nearer and dearer to my heart 30 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: and the opportunity to spend time together today is is 31 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: really exciting. Yeah, you know, and it's funny because reading 32 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: your book and I went back through it again and 33 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: I was scribbling notes all over the place. My desk 34 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: is full of little scribbled notes on so many of 35 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 1: the things that you write about. It goes straight across 36 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: the soft community. It doesn't matter whether you're Army Ranger, 37 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: Army green Beret, and Navy Seal, Air Force Power Rescue guys. 38 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: I think you know the things that you write about 39 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: and the things that were important to you and into 40 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: the sale community definitely resonate with everyone. I mean, I 41 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: don't think there's anything in there that's strictly Oh, this 42 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: is just a seal type thing. This is all of 43 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: our special guys. I think, you know, it's kind of 44 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: you know, all of those things that you write about 45 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: I think is important to all the communities. Well, no, 46 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: thank you, I Steve, I wrote never enough, because you know, 47 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: and everything that I've seen and done, whether you're a military, government, 48 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: three companies in the private sector, I just kept coming 49 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: across the same kinds of principles that can help everyone, 50 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, people, organizations in the country to be better. 51 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: The goals, you know, lifting up individuals and helping those 52 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: individuals to lift up others, the organizations and the people 53 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: in their lives and and just help all of us 54 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: come together and make a better country. This same exact 55 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: mission that the soft community lives and breathes. So the 56 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: big thing that, like you said, is is no matter 57 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: your role or your place in life, your skills and 58 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: your talents, you know, I just think everybody can make 59 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: such a difference. I'll tell you, you you know, my STEAL 60 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: training class start just like like most started with a 61 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty guys and nineteen graduated. And the truth 62 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: is like when you finished STEAL training. When you're twenty 63 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: one or nineteen or whatever you are, you feel really 64 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: like the extremely special, and you are. But the thing is, 65 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: we're no more special than many many people across the 66 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: soft in the greater d D community. And I think 67 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: the faster that we learned that that really it's one 68 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: team in one community. The faster our trajectory to success. Absolutely. 69 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: And you know, it's funny because again, reading some of 70 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: your stories, you know, I can draw some parallels when 71 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: you talk about being miserable and and then one of 72 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: the guys in your class just burst out laughing, and 73 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: it resonated through the entire you know, budget class that 74 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: you were in. I remember much of the same thing. 75 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: What we used to call the sawdust pit and used 76 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: to fill water. The same thing happened in our class. 77 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: They were trying to make us miserable, and one guy 78 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: starts laughing uncontrollably, and the next thing, you know, we're 79 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: all laughing, and uh, you know, it's just it's it's 80 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: some of those things that you know you re you 81 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: forgot about. But then as I'm reading the book, I 82 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: was like, oh man, that strikes a nerve. I remember 83 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: doing that same thing myself. So well that was Yeah. Sorry, sorry, Steve, 84 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: you keep going. Sorry, No, I'm good, Go ahead. I 85 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: was just gonna say, it is all about laughter, right. 86 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: Our job is so darned serious that that the most 87 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,559 Speaker 1: fun podcast would probably be getting a bunch of people 88 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: on here and talking about the best practical jokes that 89 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: they've ever played. That would be massively entertaining. Uh you know, 90 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: you do? You do talk about? The two people that 91 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: I wrote about actually in my book are two classmates 92 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: from buds in different situations that that made us laugh. 93 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: You know. One of them was my first roommate in 94 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: the Seal Teams, Commander Joe Price, a fabulous human being 95 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: who commanded the seal team behind me and then took 96 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: his own life overseas, you know, actually in the bed 97 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: that I slept in the previous ten months over in 98 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: Aryan Cout, Afghanistan. Terribly tragic and difficult story. It's a 99 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: still a story that many people on here know about 100 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: from both both personally and situationally. With we we all 101 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: know people who struggle and and then the other side 102 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: of that coin. One of the other people who made 103 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: us laugh uncontrollably was my swim buddy from Seal Training. 104 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: Chris Cassidy, who later became an astronaut as a is 105 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: a superhuman being and a super friend and and just wonderful, 106 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: both wonderful individuals. Yeah, and that's uh, that's what makes 107 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: the classes go. I mean, we had, you know, dating 108 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: myself back when I went through SF training. We had 109 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: a guy when we were doing our land navigation training, 110 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: which is a big part of SF and it it's 111 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: where a lot of guys fall by the wayside. So 112 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: we're out there, it's really hot, and this guy puts 113 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: a poncho over his head, gots two eye holes out, 114 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: and runs button naked through the woods before we get 115 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: ready to start, and he's calling himself Captain Camouflage that 116 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: he's going to guide everyone to their point. And our 117 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: whole class just racked up laughing. We're literally rolling on 118 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: the ground. Our instructors were just like, you know, usually there, 119 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, no nonsense. You know, it's the same thing 120 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: as bud Strain. They're they're you know, they're they're cracking 121 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: on you the whole time. And these guys just couldn't 122 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: keep a straight face. They're like that guy ain't wired right, 123 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: But you know, you need that kind of guy and 124 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: that you know in your class, and I think it 125 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: took a lot of the stress away from people because 126 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: he did that. And then you know, we got ready, 127 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: we went out and we had a lot of guys 128 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: passed the first time, which doesn't usually happen in SEP training. 129 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: So you know, you need that. I think people don't 130 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: realize that aren't in the military community. That's sometimes humor 131 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: is a huge weapon on your side. Well it's I 132 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: couldn't agree more. And you know, that wonderful human Joe 133 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: Price had this infectious laughter and I'll never forget in 134 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: steel training, he and I were both pull up challenged, 135 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, buds, just like every challenging you know, course 136 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: Q course, ranger school, etcetera. While I haven't been through those, 137 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: I certainly know there's a lot of suffering and misery 138 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: and all of the foundational training classes. But I remember 139 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: on a Saturday job and I went to do pull 140 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: ups just to try to get better at them. I'm 141 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: six and definitely far from God's gift to the pull 142 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: up bar, but I remember being on pull up like 143 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: number one and a half or two and struggling already 144 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: and just looking across at job, and he was already 145 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: laughing at me because I was so bad, and it 146 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,239 Speaker 1: was just like, how how can you ever really worry 147 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: about not being able to do that many pull ups 148 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: when you just have somebody laughing that infectiously. Yeah, Yeah, 149 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: it's it's funny because again, you know, reading that about 150 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: the pull ups if I after my military career, I 151 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: was working as a security guy on a on a 152 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: Hollywood film and uh, you know there was some British 153 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: row Marine commandos who were working for you know, bodyguard 154 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,599 Speaker 1: for some of the stars and and and s a 155 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: S type guys, and we were all talking one day 156 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: at lunch and the star of the film that dame, 157 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: and we were talking to him and we were all 158 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: talking about all the pull ups we have to do 159 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: because the bridge was the same as we are. So 160 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: Matt was like, how many pull ups you guys have 161 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: to do? So we had a pull up bar behind 162 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: his trailer on the set and he was up there 163 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: and he was actually in really good shape. He was 164 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: knocking him out and then one of the bridge that 165 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, you're making some really nice faces there, Matt. 166 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: You ever think about branching out into porn? And that's 167 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: when he almost broke his jaw jaw at the bar, 168 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, and again reading the book, but that's what 169 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, immediately came to mind. So well, anyway, it 170 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: looks like a metaphor for for larger, for life beyond training, 171 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: and in just life more broadly, right, it's whether it's 172 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: the pull up bar, the obstacle course, or or the misery, 173 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: it's just how do you learn how to stretch yourself 174 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 1: beyond your limits and then most importantly, not just make 175 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: your limits, uh, you know aren't more capable, but but 176 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: to learn how to live at that, at that edge 177 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: and that in that uncomfortable zone if you will, and 178 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: and be able to remain calm and logical and still 179 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: influence and inspire and make solid decision making. And and 180 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: so I just think that, you know, I joke around 181 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: the L and seal stands for lazy, um, you know 182 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: do we We we find by definition sometimes the easiest 183 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: way to go do things, not because we're our DNA 184 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: is cutting corners, but because our DNA is thinking about 185 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: how do we preserve energy for the next thing that 186 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: we're gonna need to go do. And I think that 187 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: there are so many lessons that that really end up 188 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: carrying over to all of all of life. Yeah. Absolutely, 189 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: And that was you know, that segues perfect into into 190 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: the book itself, because you know, part of what special 191 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: Operations does and you talked about it in the Navy 192 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: Seals it takes guys farther than they ever thought they 193 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: could go, and you talk about that in the book, 194 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: and I thought that was a very important piece of 195 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: it because it I think that carries into the civilian world. 196 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't realize their true potential because 197 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: they used to operating in a comfortable environment. And and 198 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: the way you worded this in the book I thought 199 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: was very important. Can you fill our listeners in a 200 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: little bit about that and and taking you know, candidates wherever, 201 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: being in the seals or you know, in the civilian world, 202 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: and taking them past that comfort zone. Yeah. Absolutely. I 203 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: think it is, like I was saying a little bit 204 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: a couple of minutes ago, is really the foundational metaphor 205 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: for life. It's um It's how you how you stay 206 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: grounded and and able to influence other people when you 207 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: get uncomfortable. And we do that obviously in training situations 208 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: as best we can, so that you know, everybody who's 209 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: many of your listeners have been through you know, ranger school, 210 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: Q course, etcetera, etcetera, and and and and and all 211 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: of us, I guarantee have experienced harder situations in real 212 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: life than we did in training. But a lot of 213 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: that confidence comes from being stretched earlier in life and 214 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: in knowing that you're going to see different situations. It's 215 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of like in planning. You know a lot 216 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: of us they say, oh, well, you know, we never 217 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: the never end up surviving. You know, a good plan 218 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: never survives first contact with the enemy. But you know, 219 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: in the soft community, we're already a step ahead of 220 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: that because we're already planning for the plan to change. 221 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: You know, in the civilian world, I hear a lot 222 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: of you know, banks and technology organizations, etcetera, say, well, 223 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: we have a playbook for that. You know, when when 224 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,239 Speaker 1: X happens, we know that we're gonna go do why 225 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: in One of the concepts that I think is really 226 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: important is agility, Steve. It's it's understanding that you can't 227 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: go right a hundred or a thousand playbooks for all 228 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: the situations that are gonna come at us. And so 229 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: what's important is just have that one meta playbook, which 230 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: is really just a playbook on how to create the 231 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: playbook that you need in the moment. That's what the 232 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: OFF community really knows how to do. It's work backward. First, 233 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: defying an outcome you want to achieve, right, and then 234 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: you think about that's that's kind of like vision where 235 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: you're going. And then you get into the strategy. We've 236 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: got ten or a hundred different ways that we could 237 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: go achieve the aforementioned outcome. How do you identify the 238 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: all of the risk associated with those different paths to 239 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: achieve that outcome and then pick the most risk adjusted 240 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: paths so that you don't take unnecessary risk and put 241 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: our our people in situations that they don't have to 242 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: be in order to achieve the outcome. And then you 243 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: go execute. But then Steve, to me, the most important 244 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: thing is how do you reassess that vision, that strategy, 245 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 1: and that execution constantly. One more sentence on this. When 246 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: I was growing up, I came into the seals in 247 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, long before nine eleven, you know there, Yeah, 248 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: there were some older warrant officers and master chiefs and 249 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: experienced folks that had lessons from the past, but there 250 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: wasn't that much combat experience relative to what there was 251 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: increasingly post nine eleven in the Seals. When I came in, 252 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: it was very much you get the mission done at 253 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: all costs. But then, you know, pretty early on in 254 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: the war, the entire soft community figured out that sometimes 255 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: the right thing to do is to take that new information, 256 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: work it back into the system, and say, hey, you 257 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: know what tonight at given this new information, we actually 258 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: don't need to go hit this target. We can back 259 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: off and wait for another time and up and demonstrate patients. 260 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: And and that's the maturity that I think really came 261 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: through a lot of the post nine eleven combat era. Yeah, 262 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: and uh, you know again, the book is fulfilled with 263 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, examples of this, and and I encourage all 264 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: of our listeners to check it out. It's called Never Enough. 265 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: And also you have an audio book as part of 266 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: this as well, right I do. I recorded it myself too. 267 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: It wasn't one of the big questions like do you 268 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: want a professional to go read read this for you 269 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: or do you want to do it yourself? And you know, 270 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: tell you a friend of mine, Jason Redman, has a 271 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: couple of books out Jason. Jay Redmond was in uh 272 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: in a task unit with me in Iraq when when 273 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: he was a guy who was shot on mission in 274 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: two thousand seven in Karma, Iraq and multi shot multiple times. 275 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: Wonderful too, wonderful books and Overcome and the Trident, And 276 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: you know, I sat. I was on one of my 277 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: high falutin business trips. I was going from New York 278 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: to Zurich. You know, sitting in first class. The stewardess 279 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: comes by, and you know, the big decision is champagne 280 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: or orange juice, And you know, I had my headphones 281 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: on and I heard Jay start recounting his story, which 282 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: of course I know intimately I've heard it a million times, 283 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: but sitting like having a little bit of time passed 284 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: between now and then, I just sat in first class 285 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: with tears streaming down my face and inexplicably like and 286 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: I just was. It was just so powerful to hear 287 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: his voice re telling that story and what was going 288 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: through his mind and when he was when he got shot, 289 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: and and what was happening with his teammate, and and 290 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: I thought to myself about the bonds that we had 291 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: and what it is that makes somebody move forward in 292 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: a gunfight. I wrote two silver stars for that that operation, 293 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: and both individuals received them. And there was a lot 294 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: of of difficulty and a lot of heroism on that 295 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: particular night, just like there were many many different nights 296 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: and anyways, the point I was trying to make is 297 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: that the power of reading and listening to your own 298 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: words and work I thought was incredible with j and 299 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: that's what inspired me actually to read my own book. 300 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: How difficult was that to to record the audio book? 301 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I know myself, I would have to do 302 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,359 Speaker 1: it a hundred times before I got it right. Um, 303 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: But how difficult was that? I mean, I know it's 304 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: your own words, but to you know, to read the 305 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: book without any you know, alibis, I guess it would 306 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: be well, yeah, first of all, don't give me too 307 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: much credit because there was a lot of rewinding, so 308 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: there are plenty of alibis. The uh, you know, it's 309 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: it's funny. I I have a place on a late 310 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: up in New Hampshire. I went up where it was 311 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,719 Speaker 1: totally quiet. And then the funny is the first thing 312 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: is figuring out how do you set up all this 313 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: home equipment in order to get it to work. I've 314 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: got one of those e foils by lift you know, 315 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: it's you get it's an electric surfboard basically great fun. 316 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: But it was the only thing I had that that 317 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: I could actually balance the microphone on. So if you 318 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: would have seen a picture of the home setup that 319 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: I had recording the thing, you would think I was 320 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: a complete junior varsity at best. And um, you know, 321 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: but but when it actually came to the recording, look 322 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: at two things. Number one is it was harder in 323 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: the beginning because you get in the flow. It's kind 324 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: of like when you haven't been diving or jumping or 325 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: shooting for for a little bit of a bit, and 326 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: you you know, you just get back at that trade 327 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: or that that trade that you know, look the first 328 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: few minutes or something, or the first two hours or 329 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: whatever it is, you're kind of getting back into the 330 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: swing of things. It took me probably a good hour 331 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: or two to really get into the flow. And um, 332 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: and then I'll be honest, I what I struggled with 333 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: with the book was how open to be? You know, 334 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: I didn't write a I never I'm not a person 335 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: that seeks any sort of limelight. I really really uh 336 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: really enjoy seeing others be successful. And so I really 337 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: struggled with whether with how to how to reconcile a 338 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: being passionate about sharing things that I've learned and then 339 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: be kind of not seeking a limelight and and those 340 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: are really irreconcilable. You have to prioritize one or the 341 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: over the other. And it took me a while to 342 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: finally say, you know, I'm gonna share what I've learned. 343 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: So I also decided that I would open up about 344 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: a few different things in the book, different stories or 345 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: different thoughts, whether it was you know, some you know, 346 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: waking up way too many or more early on a 347 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: few on mornings where I'm thinking about, you know, dozens 348 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: of friends that I've buried or or or things that 349 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: I could have done that maybe could have saved different 350 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: people from from from from that fate, or or just 351 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: more that I could be doing and um, and so anyways, 352 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: I just really I really ultimately hit a few spots 353 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: in the book where it was a little bit hard 354 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: to read as well, and because I wrote the words, 355 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: but when you actually read them out loud, it's it's um, 356 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: it's both fun and difficult. Absolutely and you know it's 357 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: it's amazing. Um again, you know, hats off to you 358 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: because writing a book is not an easy thing and 359 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: uh and then doing it audio recording. And by the way, 360 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: your publisher did send me that picture with your surfboard, 361 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: so I did see that because I was like, is 362 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: that a surfboard? Because he said make sure you ask 363 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: Mike about you know, his recording of this. Oh that's 364 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: that funny. I didn't. I didn't know that was part 365 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: of the prep material. Yeah, because he sent me a 366 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: picture of that, and I was like, that's the same 367 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: thing you just said. I mean, I was like, what 368 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: in the hell is that? Is that a surfboard? He 369 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: has his uh microphone on. But now now we know, 370 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: so that's uh, that's amazing. But yeah, when you talk, 371 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: when you talk in your book about leadership, and I 372 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: think that's like, this is the I think the most 373 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: interesting part of it. One of the quotes you had 374 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: about from George Washington was one that I had never 375 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: seen before. And I'm an avid reader of history, and 376 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: when you talk about leadership and it comes with discipline 377 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: and and the George Washington quote, I'm going to read 378 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: it here because I have never heard this one, and 379 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: I think it goes right to the corruxi of everything. 380 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: Discipline is the soul of an army. It makes small 381 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: numbers formidable, It procures success to the weak and esteem 382 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: to all. And I think that hits it right on 383 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: the head, because you know, when when you're talking about 384 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: special operations, people we're dealing with small numbers are guys, 385 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: and I don't know if I listeners are. I'm sure 386 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: most of them are, but some of them may not 387 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: be aware that when our guys go into combat and 388 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: today world, they're almost always out numbered. And you know, 389 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: the two things that separate us from our adversaries is 390 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: we have the discipline and leadership that allows our guys 391 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: to be successful. So, you know, getting into the leadership 392 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: part of it, I thought it was a really uh 393 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: best part of the book as far as I was concerned. 394 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: And and and then again it carries forward and you 395 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: talked about leaders learn authority by giving it away, And 396 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: could you explain that to our listeners a little bit. 397 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: I'd love to Steve before I do, if I could 398 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: just make one more point on the why I wrote 399 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: the book just to bring to work for the for 400 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: the for the group. Look, I would never profit. I 401 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: just couldn't profit on something that that I was bringing 402 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: to the world based on my my own past in 403 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: the Seals. And so one of the things I also 404 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: did was started a five oh one c three nonprofit 405 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: organization that very quietly and confidentially pays off mortgages for 406 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: gold Stars Soft families. And so I'm in the process 407 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: of of paying off of my fifth, our fifth mortgage 408 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: with both help for me and help from a few 409 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: really generous friends, just trying to quietly make positive impact 410 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: in the world. You know, the name of the organization 411 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: is the eleven and sixty two Foundation, which, as people know, 412 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: is the date that Kennedy started both the Seals and 413 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: the Green Berets. And the the only thing you'll find 414 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: if you do some really deep Google searching is very 415 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: deep in one corner of the I r SS website, 416 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: you'll see our our attack, our official paperwork. But the 417 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: reason that I did that was because all the all 418 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: my profits from this book are going to that five 419 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: oh one c three And that's why for me, writing 420 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: this book is a mission. This isn't just like get 421 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: get them, get the book out there, get the lessons 422 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 1: out there. It's I'm trying to create really one of 423 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: those win win win type of situations, and that's why 424 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: I'm really passionate about trying to get this out there, 425 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: raise awareness, and get the support for the not just 426 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: the book, but for the community rit large. Um. So 427 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: thanks for letting me work that in. UM, I'll give 428 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: you a second if you have any questions or anything 429 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: on that, and then I'll come back to your leadership question. Yeah. So, 430 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: if any of our listeners would like to or readers 431 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: from software would like to, uh donate to this foundation, 432 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: is there a website they can go on? You know, Steve, 433 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: there's not. I don't have a website. I don't take 434 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: pictures after we do nice things for people and put 435 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: it up on a website. I just quietly help. So 436 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: I think that if somebody did want to help, the 437 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: best thing to do would be proliferate the book, help 438 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: get the book out there, help get the word out there. 439 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: But if somebody really is passionate about about helping, then 440 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: you can hit me up on LinkedIn and send me 441 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: a message. Absolutely so, and I encourage all of our 442 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: listeners to do that. Well. Thank you. Now back to 443 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: the Washington quote and leadership, I also think that that's 444 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: very true and moving. Look, discipline is what this community 445 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: is all about, right, It's it starts from you know, 446 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: setting your alarm clock in the morning and make and 447 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: getting out of bed before you normally would have if 448 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: you didn't set that alarm. How do you lean into 449 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: things that are are not your first choice to go 450 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: do and put others before self. That's what That's what 451 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: this community is all about. And so the word discipline 452 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 1: can mean so many things because on its face you 453 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,479 Speaker 1: could think, oh, well, somebody did something wrong and they 454 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: get disciplined. Well, yeah, true. However, Comma, I really think 455 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: of that quote with Washington is the very holistic and 456 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: broadest interpretation of the world the word discipline and what 457 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: does that mean? And then you know, yeah, the soft community, 458 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: sure we're outnumbered sometimes, but but I also like to 459 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: say that our job is to never fight fair. How 460 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: do we make sure that in the mission planning process 461 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: we are stacking the deck in our favor? Of course, 462 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: most of us worked. We we do better at night, 463 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: We do better with lasers and technology and all of 464 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: these different things that we have not just to mitigate risk, 465 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: but to make us overwhelm the situation so that we 466 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: can make great decisions and again not have to expose 467 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: our people to the unnecessary risk and find that that 468 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: easiest best path to to drive, to drive towards the outcome. 469 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: And and you know when you talk about leadership and 470 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: now now you're carrying it into the civilian world, as 471 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: you said, you're you know, involved with different companies. You know, 472 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: what's the benefit I know civilians will ask, you know, 473 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: what's the benefit of corporation? Can glean from the lessons learned? 474 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 1: You know that you know from your service or anyone's 475 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: service in that band great question. The most important thing 476 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: for military service is to understand how to abstract out 477 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: what you're actually doing. You know, when we finish these 478 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: operations that seem like they could have been the front 479 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: page of a newspaper, we don't spend all any time 480 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: talking about what went well. As this community is very 481 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: well we talked about, we spend our time on what 482 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: didn't go well because that's where the highest return on 483 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: the investment of our time is. And so within that 484 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: which is also discipline, right, because you can spend you know, 485 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: your time talking about what didn't go well and at 486 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: the same time be really really awesome. And so how 487 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 1: do you keep people from conflating how we do overall 488 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: with with the time that we're talking about potential improvement. 489 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: So I think that what's important is to abstract out. 490 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: What I like to say is how we think. I 491 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: like to help people think. Leaders who teach people how 492 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: to think, not what to think. And so when we're 493 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: coming off that operation, in that debrief or hot wash 494 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, whatever we call it, you know, 495 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: we could have a conversation that sounds like, hey, dummy, 496 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: you came out of the building and you turn left, 497 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: you know, and and then you should have turned right. Well, 498 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: that that's not that helpful of a conversation. What you 499 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: really want to do is say, hey, when you came 500 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: out of the building and you turn left, what is 501 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: it that you were seeing? What is it that you 502 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,959 Speaker 1: were thinking that made you turn left? Because you know 503 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 1: that that's set up in that whether it's some remote 504 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: village or in training or wherever, no two operations are 505 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: going to be identical. So what we need to do 506 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: is help people understand the principles around why they turned left. 507 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: In other words, the how they think and and so 508 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: then what you can do if you have that conversation 509 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: at the level of the deeper why, now that's going 510 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: to be replicable to the next operation, and the operation 511 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: after that, and the operation after that, and to the 512 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: all of the people in the room, because then everybody. 513 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: When when people spend their mental energy on thinking about 514 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: the how instead of the what, that's where you make 515 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: the greatest progress. So those those types of of abstractions 516 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: are what also part of me would also carry over 517 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: into the civilian world. Like I'm no longer making decisions 518 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: on on whether to clear a five pound jd M 519 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: to be dropped. I'm making decisions around you know, do 520 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: we do a large deal at what price? Or do 521 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: we hire this person? You know, what's our strategy, how 522 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: are we going to organize, what are we gonna spend 523 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: our time on? But these are all the exact same 524 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: decisions in the private sector, just that take a little 525 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: bit different former fashion, but fundamentally it's all the same. 526 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: It's like I said, and that when I opened up 527 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: on why I wrote the book, it's because across the 528 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: military and the government and the private sector, there is 529 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: way way way more in common than there is different yeah. 530 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: And you know, when you're talking about leadership, I think 531 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people have misconceptions about the civilian world. 532 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: But it still starts and ends with the people that 533 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: you surround yourself with, isn't it. Absolutely? And also recognizing 534 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: that we're all a little bit different because we all 535 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: have different skills and abilities and interests, and that's that's 536 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: what makes us great. The last thing that we want 537 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: is a group of exact same uh, you know, attributes 538 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: in a room. We want to be able to draw 539 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: on the people who have different skills and and uh inabilities. 540 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: So with that, that's what that's what ultimately makes us stronger. 541 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: And so with that, you think about decision making, and 542 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: you know, you want to surround yourself with people who 543 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: can see in your blind spots and have a culture 544 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: that where people feel comfortable raising up and saying, hey, boss, 545 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: you know, I think you're missing something, and then you 546 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: can have that conversation and say, oh, you know what, 547 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: I either am or I'm not, but let's talk about that. 548 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: And and that's and that's how you make sure that 549 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: you're Like when you're trading markets, if you're about to 550 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: put a million or a hundred million or a billion 551 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: dollar trade on then you know, what do you do? 552 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: You want to make sure that you're not missing something. Absolutely, 553 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: that's no different than you know, the standing up in 554 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: in terran cout Afghanistan when a twenty one year old 555 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: seal says, he says to his troop commander, hey, boss, 556 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, I think we're there's a better way to 557 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: do this. Absolutely, you want that information. So how do 558 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,239 Speaker 1: you surface those signals that have to be considered so 559 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: that you don't make a bad decision? Yeah, and that 560 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: that's one of the you know, I think one of 561 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: the interesting things that about special ops across the board 562 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: is that, you know, there's a lot more open dialogue, 563 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: I think than the rest of the military because even 564 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: though some like you said, a guy on his first mission, uh, 565 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: you know, he might not have the experience that you know, 566 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: his his his leaders might have, but he still has 567 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,239 Speaker 1: the intelligence to be able to say, hey, you know, 568 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: I just saw something that maybe we should take a 569 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: look at. And guys will listen to that. And I 570 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: think that's, um, that's one of the tenants of special ops. 571 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: I think, you know, people come first, and I think 572 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: one of the hardest things is getting people in the 573 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: civilian world, I should say, because I've I've had experience 574 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: in that since I've been out. Is how to get 575 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: people to buy in and how to get people to follow. 576 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: And I think that's part of what your book talks about. 577 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: It does and and so staying with that theme, it's 578 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: thinking about the intersection of a couple of things. When 579 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: I hire people. What I like to talk about our 580 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:20,239 Speaker 1: three circles. It's what gives you energy, It's what are 581 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: you good at? And what does the business need? The 582 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: only acceptable solution is the solution that threads the middle 583 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: of all three of those circles. If we're if you 584 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: go get a job something that you're good at but 585 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: doesn't give you energy, and it is what the business needs, 586 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: it's it's gonna it's not gonna work over the long run. 587 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: And so part of it is helping tease out what 588 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: gives people the passion, the energy on how they're gonna 589 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: gonna contribute to the world. You know, I've I've helped 590 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: a lot of transitioning people from from government from d 591 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: O D. And a common theme that I hear is, hey, 592 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: I just want to be in a special organization that 593 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: continues to have mission and meaning you know, like absolutely, 594 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: and at the same time that's not good enough of 595 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: a statement to transact on. It's it's it's true and insufficient. 596 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: And so the thing is, how do you help people 597 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: tease out what they're looking for? And I think there 598 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: are really, at the essence, really just three types of 599 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: roles in the private sector. There's you know, say an investor, 600 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: people who you take money from from other sources and 601 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: invest it to make other money. There's advisors, you know, 602 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: people who who who teach and tell people how to 603 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: do a job better. And then there's operators. And I 604 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: don't mean operator in the classic soft operator definition. I 605 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: mean operator as in you're going to operate a part 606 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: of a business or a part of a business and 607 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: kind of a line function, if you will, not a 608 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: staff function. And so you know, if you and then 609 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: from their understanding, how to map into what you like 610 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: Like for example, a CEO in an organization is like 611 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: the three you know, a Chief strategy officer is like 612 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: the five, A c I O is like the six 613 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: you know, And so how do you connect like and 614 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: I could go on and on, but how do you 615 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: figure out what you want to be in a civilian 616 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: organization is um It takes experience to understand them mapping. 617 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: And that's where it's it's no fault of anybody who's 618 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: spent twenty year, thirty or or less years in service. 619 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: We don't get we don't get the reps in the 620 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: gym in order to say, well, gosh, how do I map? 621 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: And that's where there are some really great uh five 622 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: and one C three's and in organizations that will help 623 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: people map what the what their abilities and interests are 624 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: into the needs of a business. But I think from 625 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: the receiving end, it's also on people like me to 626 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: help other key business leaders and people in in an 627 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: organization too, to be able to connect the gods and 628 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: not just look at somebody as uh some sort of 629 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: a you know, a jumper or a diver or a shooter, 630 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: but like to say, how do you how do you 631 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: look at the fundamental skills and abilities that people have. 632 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: And that's a big part of you know, uh what 633 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: what our soft community, you know, their concerns are is 634 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: that transition, you know, how they transition once they get out, 635 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: you know, because it's a big change and we've all 636 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: gone through it and after you've been in the military 637 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: for a long time. There's that I know everyone has 638 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 1: that because there's that unknown how am I going to 639 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: fit in the civilian community? And I think, uh, you 640 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: know what you talk about in the book helps that. 641 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: I think a great deal. Well, can I share something 642 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: that's not in the book, Steve, I think this is 643 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: for Look, a lot of the audience is not transitioning 644 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: today or this year the but this is something to 645 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: think about for whenever someone is transitioning. It's a matter 646 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 1: of identifying the buckets of of interests that one has. 647 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: And so on your long runs or for some people's 648 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 1: slow walks, that's a joke. The you think about what's 649 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: important to you, it's that at the end of the day, 650 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: there will probably met ten to fifteen things that are 651 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,720 Speaker 1: important to all of us. It's some combination of compensation, geography, 652 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: quality of life, size of an organization, the sector that 653 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: an organization is in, the type of role I don't know, 654 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: making these opportunity for education. And if we listed out 655 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: maybe three year seven more things, we'd capture mostly everything. 656 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: I'd encourage people to write down, what is what are 657 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: those those things in front of in front of you? 658 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: That that seem most important to you, and then how 659 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: do you translate that into a little bit of a 660 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: you know, three to seven sentence elevator pitch on on 661 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: what you're looking for. What I've seen happen way too 662 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: often is that people who are getting out here have 663 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: a bottoms up approach to figuring out what they want 664 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: to do. Said differently, it's hey, I know a person 665 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: who has an organization that needs to hire somebody, and 666 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: so that sounds interesting to me. Well like, okay, maybe 667 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: maybe that's the best thing. But I would highly highly 668 00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: recommend a simultaneous top down approach that that I previously 669 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: described about thinking about what are the key attributes that 670 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: you're looking for. You know, you're it's just like buying 671 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: or renting a house. We're never going to get the 672 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: perfect house, but at least we know what we're looking for, 673 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: and then there will be a couple of things, you know, 674 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,399 Speaker 1: long school district or or a bedroom too small or 675 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,439 Speaker 1: has a pool or doesn't have a pool, or whatever 676 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: it is. We're not going to get the perfect house. 677 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: And that's gonna be the same way with a job. 678 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: But if you do the thinking ahead of time about 679 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: what you want in the abstract. Now you've got your 680 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: map for what you're looking for, and then as opportunities arise, 681 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: you can take the opportunity in front of you and 682 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: dif that take the difference from what's in front of 683 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: you to your map, and then think about, uh, is 684 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: it something that you want to take off the shelf 685 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: and put in your shopping carton and go and go 686 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,399 Speaker 1: home with you know, And maybe it's a yes, maybe 687 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: it's a no. But that's the really important thing is 688 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: to think ahead about how the fit is and it 689 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: and it. It takes a little bit of that reflective 690 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: thinking about what really gives you the energy? What are 691 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 1: you really good at? What are those types of things? 692 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: A great points. I'm gonna switch gears a little bit. Um. 693 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, you know, as a you know, 694 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,280 Speaker 1: young young man joining the Navy for the very first time, 695 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: did you ever, in your wildest dreams foresee yourself, you know, 696 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: U negotiating a treaty from the White House, Steve. There's 697 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: most of my life that I never would have predicted 698 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 1: an age eighteen or twenty one. You know, I never 699 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: I never aspired to, uh, to really even serve in 700 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: combat frankly, I I what for me? The Seals were 701 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,399 Speaker 1: just the hardest choice in front of me, I will say. 702 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: As a freshman at holy Cross College in you know, 703 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: I went to memorial service for a guy named John Connors, 704 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: who was a Lieutenant j G. Seal killed in Panama, 705 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: who was a holy Cross r OTC alum. And I 706 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: got to see the specialness of a community come together 707 00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: and celebrate John's life. I didn't I never personally met John. 708 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: He was four, I guess four or five, five years 709 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: older than I was. But uh, you know, that made 710 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: a real big mark on me. And the other thing 711 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: that made a mark on me was my grandfather who 712 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: was at Pearl Harbor on December seven forty one, and 713 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: he was he was actually like like a good Irish Catholic, 714 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: was hungover on Sunday morning, seven seven. Junior officers in 715 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: some bungalow with him, and he heard the first wave 716 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: and said, hey, let's we gotta get in this jeep 717 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: and get into get into workfellows. Nobody would go with him. 718 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 1: He jumped into a jeep commandeered and he said the 719 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 1: scariest thing of Pearl Harbor was actually driving by the 720 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: marine gate guard at like forty miles an hour without stopping. 721 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 1: He got onto his ship and was manning his battle 722 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: station for the third wave. And you know, he was 723 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 1: on the USS Maryland which was partially sunk, and then 724 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: went to eight to flight school, became a a an aviator, 725 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: a bomber, flew bombers out of the Allusians at age 726 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: like twenty five, I think it was his his commanding 727 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: officer was shot down and he was running a forty 728 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: plane squadron as a as a commanding officer at age 729 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: in the war. And and so he had a lot 730 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: of great lessons and and uh, one of them was 731 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: the statement that said, Mike, don't die for your country, 732 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: go on living for it. And that stays with me 733 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,439 Speaker 1: a lot. And and the Holy Cross, there's a real 734 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: Jesuit education that focuses on the theme of people for others, 735 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: and it's all about mission. And so whether it's you know, 736 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: my grandfather or Holy Cross or other other things in 737 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: my life, I just feel like the need to serve 738 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: is really there. And so the Steal community was that 739 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 1: for me. And then you know, I was I, like 740 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: many people wrestled along the way with do I stay 741 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: in or do I get out. I never said I'll 742 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: do twenty years in the military. I just kind of 743 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: every two or three years evaluated the path in front 744 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: of me, and I I just kept turning right. I 745 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,959 Speaker 1: never turned left, you know. And so and then post 746 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: nine eleven, it was kind of like, if not me 747 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: than whom you know. At that point, I had eight 748 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 1: or nine years of SERVI us in and I felt 749 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: called to to stay in the service, just like all 750 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: of us do. I'm no different than anybody else. Everybody 751 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 1: on everybody who served has has raised their hand and 752 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: said I'm ready to take risk for the nation. And 753 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: that's the bond that that that that the people like 754 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: your your audience understands absolutely. And you know when you 755 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: talk about that and that you know the the the 756 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: ability and and not just the ability, but the desire 757 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: to give back. You know. One of the interesting little 758 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: snippets in your book was when you talked about going 759 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: to UM the Kennedy School at Harvard, and you know, 760 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 1: you went to the recruiters and said, hey, I'm here, 761 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: and you started working out with some U r OTC 762 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: midshipman and one of them ends up being a congressman 763 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: from Texas. And I thought that was a fascinating part 764 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: of the book, even just in a small part, but 765 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: fill our what's in on that because I thought that 766 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: was incredible. Yeah, you know, Steve, it's it's just what 767 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: everybody knows already. Busy people always mentor it's it's a 768 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: life can be hard for a lot of us. But 769 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 1: you know, when life is hard, a great answer is 770 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: to go help somebody who's in greater need than we are. 771 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: And um. And so that theme is something that the 772 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: soft community really understands, is how to help and um 773 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: and so anyways, yeah, I had a free ride. I 774 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,320 Speaker 1: had no reason. I had no need to wear military, 775 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: anything military or do anything military. For two years, like 776 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: you said, went to the commanding officers of the r 777 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 1: OTC units on each side of the Charles River that's 778 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: Boston University. And um and and uh m, I t Harvard, 779 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: I said, and and and just I'll be at the 780 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 1: base of the footbridge every Friday morning at six am. 781 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: Who whoever wants to join me can And it's of 782 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: course started with fifty kids, and then as it got cold, 783 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: they're a little more mis miserable. And as as the 784 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: discipline needed from President you know, Washington was arose. The 785 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 1: group winnowed down, but there was a solid fifteen that 786 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: showed up for my whole two years. And you know, 787 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: in the beginning it was great because I just crushed 788 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: all these eighteen nine year old kids. But you know 789 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 1: it was really even greater was after, like I don't know, 790 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,840 Speaker 1: a month or two, they were beating. There was somebody 791 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,359 Speaker 1: beating me at every single thing. And on the one hand, 792 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: it really sucked right just to be you know, I'm 793 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: the real seal. I'm an O four at that point, 794 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: and and and I'm supposed to be in front of everything. 795 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: But you know, there's always always one or two that 796 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,240 Speaker 1: would that would um, that would that would win at everything. 797 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: I didn't win a thing. And I love that. I 798 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,319 Speaker 1: hated it and I loved it at the same time. 799 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: And so there were out of that group, I recommended 800 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: three of the people to go to Seal training. They 801 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: all they all were chosen, and sure I remember one 802 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: day very vividly sitting down with all three of them 803 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: in my kitchen in Cambridge, mass And and after a 804 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: really hard workout, saying, gentlemen, here's what it means to 805 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,319 Speaker 1: be a seal and here's what it means to serve here. 806 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: And it's all about others, and it's about you know, positive, 807 00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: positive influence in people's lives. It's about doing the hard thing. 808 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,239 Speaker 1: It's about making decisions that are sometimes unpopular. It's about 809 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:04,799 Speaker 1: you know, I can go on and on, but yeah, 810 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,759 Speaker 1: like you said, one of those three people was Dan 811 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 1: Crunchaw who has become a senator a congressman in in Texas. 812 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: He's a wonderfully driven human being. Dan and I have 813 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: shared a connection through the years and and I'm incredibly 814 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: proud of him. He also went to the Kennedy School 815 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: and and then, like many people had, I think he'd 816 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: be comfortable talking about this kind of wrestled with. Well, 817 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: he does in his book Fortitude and Know another phenomenal book. 818 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: If you haven't read Fortitude by Dan Crunchawy's highly recommended. 819 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 1: But anyways, he you know, what are we gonna what 820 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 1: am I gonna do? Which way am I gonna go? 821 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: And through his hat in the ring and then off 822 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,800 Speaker 1: has his his political career has taken off. That's uh, yeah, 823 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: that was amazing. It's like I said, some of the 824 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: snippets in your book when when you talk about some 825 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: of the interactions and that you had with different guys, 826 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: and it would really strike you on a personal level, 827 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: but because you know, you can tell that you made 828 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: an impression, a lasting impression on some of the people 829 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,479 Speaker 1: and and some of the stories are heartbreaking. You talked 830 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: about the one he was actually a Green Beret, his 831 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: name was Anthony, and you know, you had some interactions 832 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,279 Speaker 1: with him, and he later ended up being killed, and 833 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: I thought that was really powerful. And then you talked 834 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: on another level about being intrusive to the point of 835 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: getting to know your people. And you talked about one 836 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:36,839 Speaker 1: of your Navy seals going through I believe it was 837 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: free fall training, but at the same time, he had 838 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: a family issue that needed to get dealt with, and 839 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 1: you talked him into it and basically convinced him he 840 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 1: was doing the right thing by bowing out because it 841 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: was the right thing to do. You said in the book, 842 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: I think you'll thank me later for that. And those 843 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 1: are the kind of things that I think are our 844 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: listeners are reader would love to check out. I don't 845 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: know if you wanted to talk a little bit about, uh, 846 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: those two situations, well you I'm glad to and you 847 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,319 Speaker 1: talked about we talked about the audio book earlier. This 848 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: is also the kind of thing that you can just 849 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 1: pop on your earphones and and it's probably eight or 850 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,879 Speaker 1: nine hours of listening and incredibly easy to digest. So 851 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: whether it's the book or the audio book, both of 852 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,399 Speaker 1: those will be easily digestible. On the last point, first, Steve, 853 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,360 Speaker 1: I just want to hammer one thing home, which is, 854 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,360 Speaker 1: look there, I don't take any credit for anything in life. 855 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: All I do is I sometimes play a little bit 856 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: of a part in unlocking other people's potential, right, And 857 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: and that's like the same thing with Dan Crenshaw. Like, 858 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,239 Speaker 1: Dan's a really special person. He's a metaphor, he's an 859 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,839 Speaker 1: example of there are are hundreds of people like him 860 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: that I've I've helped it along the way. Dan Crenshaw 861 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: is a special person, irrespective of Mike Hays's involvement in 862 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 1: his life. And so so the thing is, as we 863 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,280 Speaker 1: how do we help people when we need nothing in return? 864 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,360 Speaker 1: That's the real question, And that's really what services is 865 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: doing something for people when there's nothing then when when 866 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: when we don't have a transaction in mind, it's just 867 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,399 Speaker 1: the underlying right thing to do. And that's how I've 868 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 1: aspired to live my life. I've done it well many times, 869 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: and I've fallen short many times. But through it all, 870 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:19,359 Speaker 1: I've learned. Um on your your point about the various stories, Look, 871 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 1: some of those are really tough, Like I. I. Yeah, 872 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,480 Speaker 1: I've made decisions that ultimately, uh, you know, could could 873 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,200 Speaker 1: have been made, could have done something differently that yielded 874 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: a different outcome. And I'll leave the story that you 875 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: just said about Anthony, who's by the way, it is 876 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,760 Speaker 1: a different name and I changed the name of the person. 877 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, that person was in two or three I 878 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,360 Speaker 1: e d strikes and and ultimately it was my decision 879 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: whether he go home or or stay in the stay 880 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: in the fight. And and I won't steal the stories punchline, 881 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:57,200 Speaker 1: but ultimately I yielded to uh, to Anthony's strong, strong 882 00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,760 Speaker 1: desires do I and and he was he it up again. 883 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,280 Speaker 1: It's it's worth the read. Just from this one little story. 884 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 1: We ended up being a hero, but also also was 885 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,839 Speaker 1: killed in action and m and that's a tough thing 886 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 1: for me. Sometimes it's uh, do I wish I did 887 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,080 Speaker 1: something differently? Look, I would given the information that I 888 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: had at the time I would make the same decision, 889 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,799 Speaker 1: do I wish the outcome was different? Absolutely, and um 890 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,279 Speaker 1: and and again that's just I've had many of these 891 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,520 Speaker 1: types of decisions and situations through life, and so I 892 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,280 Speaker 1: think the most important thing is when I talk about 893 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 1: never enough as the title of this book, it's look, 894 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 1: it's important to also understand that we are simultaneously enough 895 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 1: and the the title is intentionally provocative because it we 896 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: really always can be more excellent and more have more 897 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 1: meaning and more impact and more purpose, etcetera. At the 898 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 1: same time, we can't beat ourselves up over things that 899 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,879 Speaker 1: we can't control. And uh, you know that that's part 900 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,680 Speaker 1: of part of life, and and the way we we 901 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 1: do that here from here forward, like you said, is, 902 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 1: in my view, it is being intrusive in people's lives. 903 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 1: It's it's feeling comfortable asking the hard questions. You know. 904 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,960 Speaker 1: It's it's not popular to say, hey, have you ever 905 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: thought about harm to self? You know the number of 906 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,839 Speaker 1: times I've asked that question since going through a few 907 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,759 Speaker 1: things that that I've seen, I'm really it's always uncomfortable, 908 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,919 Speaker 1: but I always I always ask, and you know, I've 909 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,799 Speaker 1: I've been really shocked at a couple of people who 910 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,359 Speaker 1: I never thought have ever had any of those thoughts. 911 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: Who have. And it's a real eye opener. And I 912 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 1: think it's on this community to help each other. When 913 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: we talked about the Washington quote, just to keep going 914 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,240 Speaker 1: back to that, Look, we're small numbers, right, It's it's 915 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 1: and especially as we transition out, the circle of of 916 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,840 Speaker 1: people that we are around who really understand this community 917 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,839 Speaker 1: gets smaller and smaller through time. And of course it's 918 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:49,680 Speaker 1: large when we're on active duty because we all have 919 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,800 Speaker 1: people around, but it depends on who we let into 920 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,719 Speaker 1: our own heads, in our own hearts, and and and 921 00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,720 Speaker 1: that number might in many cases is way too small. 922 00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,400 Speaker 1: And then there's ways to fix that. Number one is 923 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 1: for all of us to open up our what we're 924 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,480 Speaker 1: thinking to others. But number two is is to also 925 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,560 Speaker 1: try to help others to open up and ask them 926 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 1: the questions and and and get get in their heads 927 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,080 Speaker 1: and say what are you thinking? And then under the 928 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 1: most importantly understanding what are the outlets for help? And 929 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,919 Speaker 1: how do you go get professionals to solve problems that 930 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 1: they are more suited to solve than we are. It's 931 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: a really important issue. For the soft community. Yeah, and 932 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,880 Speaker 1: that's you know, uh, we all follow that. I guess 933 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,399 Speaker 1: that mantra never enough. And I often wonder if if 934 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:42,880 Speaker 1: sometimes we put too much pressure on ourselves because you know, 935 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:44,799 Speaker 1: as you say in the book, I mean when you 936 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 1: stop learning, you stop being a Navy seal. And I 937 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,640 Speaker 1: think that carries all of our different services and units. 938 00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,840 Speaker 1: But sometimes I think we're too hard on ourselves and 939 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,600 Speaker 1: that never enough at it who I think a lot 940 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 1: of us take it too far, and that's where I 941 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 1: think sometimes can create problems. Steve. It's the difference between 942 00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:13,640 Speaker 1: understanding healthy pressure and unhealthy pressure. Healthy pressure is great 943 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: for us, unhealthy pressure not. And so you know we 944 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,640 Speaker 1: earlier you ask questions about the fundamental training, whether it's 945 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:25,160 Speaker 1: buds or ranger school, que course, etcetera. The the goal 946 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: is always to put healthy pressure on the students because 947 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,840 Speaker 1: and and to know the difference. Our goal is to 948 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:35,120 Speaker 1: help people grow. Unhealthy people unhealthy pressure people don't grow, 949 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,560 Speaker 1: They degrade and um. And the question is understand and 950 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,520 Speaker 1: we all have different slopes of what of what kind 951 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,000 Speaker 1: of pressure we can can handle. And that's not the 952 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,560 Speaker 1: same every day or every year of our lives and 953 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,719 Speaker 1: so it's just making sure that we also understand as individuals, 954 00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,640 Speaker 1: how do we understand our slope for what we're able 955 00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,239 Speaker 1: to handle on any given day or week or year, 956 00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,759 Speaker 1: and getting that right. I absolutely don't advocate for excessive 957 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,440 Speaker 1: and unhealthy pressure, absolutely, and I think that's a good 958 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: spot for us to finish up. Um. Is there anything 959 00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 1: else that you'd like to share with our listeners today 960 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:18,160 Speaker 1: about your book or anything else that's important to you 961 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,520 Speaker 1: at this time? Well, Steve, I would just like to 962 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,759 Speaker 1: close saying thank you to this community. It's an incredible 963 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,560 Speaker 1: special community, and you know there are some people in 964 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,440 Speaker 1: here who this listener group who also have never served. 965 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,120 Speaker 1: But at the same time, everybody serves. And so the 966 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,399 Speaker 1: main message I have is while military service is held 967 00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,160 Speaker 1: up as thank you for your service, the truth is 968 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,239 Speaker 1: we all can find different ways to serve and it 969 00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,440 Speaker 1: takes different forms and shapes in our communities and our civil, 970 00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,440 Speaker 1: civil and civic groups that we participate in, etcetera, etcetera. Look, 971 00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,480 Speaker 1: when we're in the military, we often don't have time 972 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 1: for anything other than our primary duty. But you know, 973 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,200 Speaker 1: there are also times through life where we do have 974 00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 1: extra capacity, and so I just want to say thank 975 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 1: you to everybody, recognizing that service to others is what 976 00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,319 Speaker 1: makes this nation great, in our community is great. And 977 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,320 Speaker 1: then the last thing I would say is I really 978 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,880 Speaker 1: deeply do appreciate support for the book never enough. It's 979 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,200 Speaker 1: it's like I said, it's more than a book, it's 980 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 1: a mission. I'm really certain that people will enjoy the book. 981 00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: Uh it's um. I'm tempted to get to to do 982 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,960 Speaker 1: some blanket money back guarantee or something that might get 983 00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,560 Speaker 1: over luned by, but but look, I really do guarantee 984 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,560 Speaker 1: that it will be people will find it a good read. 985 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:32,080 Speaker 1: But most importantly, again most importantly supporting the awesome cause 986 00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,839 Speaker 1: of soft communities, veterans and service to the nation. Well, 987 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: thank you very much for all of that and for 988 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,799 Speaker 1: your service. I encourage all of our listeners and our 989 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,160 Speaker 1: readers out there for software to check it out. And 990 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: uh yeah, by the audio book, I think that's be 991 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,160 Speaker 1: a great way if you're going on a road trip 992 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,799 Speaker 1: to you know, listen to that while you're while you're 993 00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,839 Speaker 1: traveling down the road. But before we go, I would 994 00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:03,839 Speaker 1: just wanted to share this one public service announcement from 995 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,680 Speaker 1: softwarep community. If you want to get soft Reap on 996 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,920 Speaker 1: your phone, download our free mobile app and get easy 997 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:15,280 Speaker 1: access to our articles, podcast in gear reviews, all perfectly 998 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,759 Speaker 1: formated to your device. Please subscribe to softwarep dot com 999 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,920 Speaker 1: to get access to our library of e books and 1000 00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,399 Speaker 1: our exclusive team reforms and content available on all your 1001 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,080 Speaker 1: Apple and Android devices. And once again, we want to 1002 00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,719 Speaker 1: thank Mike for joining us today. I mean, this was 1003 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,839 Speaker 1: a lot of fun for me and I'm sure uh 1004 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,120 Speaker 1: it was interesting to all of our listeners out there. Mike, 1005 00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,839 Speaker 1: thank you again for taking the time and sharing your 1006 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,200 Speaker 1: insight with us. Steve, thanks to you to soft rep 1007 00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,680 Speaker 1: in the entire soft community. Appreciate it and make it 1008 00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:52,600 Speaker 1: a great day, all right, And with that will We'll 1009 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:56,960 Speaker 1: be back with another podcast coming up real soon, and 1010 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,160 Speaker 1: we encourage our leaders to keep reading the articles on 1011 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,080 Speaker 1: what's going on in the community. There's always something going 1012 00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,080 Speaker 1: on in the world and we try to keep up 1013 00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,240 Speaker 1: with all of it. So for myself, Steve al Jerie, 1014 00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,880 Speaker 1: our guest today, UM Mike Hayes is the commander of 1015 00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 1: former Commander of Seal Team Too. We want to thank 1016 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,719 Speaker 1: you all for listening. We'll be back with another episode 1017 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:35,000 Speaker 1: real shoot. 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