1
00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:05,040
Speaker 1: This is Marlon Bishop co CEO at Futuro Media and

2
00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 1: back in the day, one of the producers of the

3
00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,560
Speaker 1: immigration story we have for you next. Last week on

4
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,840
Speaker 1: Latino USA, we brought you an important story about an

5
00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,239
Speaker 1: unprecedented crisis in Sasabe, a remote town on the Arizona

6
00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,239
Speaker 1: border with Mexico, where two wings of the Sina Loa

7
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: cartel battle over a crossing point to smuggle migrants into

8
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 1: the US. The violence has turned the small community into

9
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 1: a ghost town. This and the fact that through June

10
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,360
Speaker 1: ten people have died in iced attention in fiscal year

11
00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. That's double the number of deaths reported

12
00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,520
Speaker 1: in all of fiscal year twenty twenty three, and triple

13
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,600
Speaker 1: the amount reported in all of fiscal year twenty twenty two.

14
00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,919
Speaker 1: So within that context, we felt that it was important

15
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: to bring to you again the strange death of Jose

16
00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 1: de Jssus. It is a two part special that originally

17
00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:00,200
Speaker 1: aired in twenty sixteen about the conditions, especially involving mental health,

18
00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,880
Speaker 1: inside the immigration detention system. The story would go on

19
00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,639
Speaker 1: to earn Latino USA the Robert F. Kennedy Journalism Award.

20
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,080
Speaker 1: Here is part one of the strange death of Jose

21
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 1: de Jessus.

22
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,240
Speaker 2: Before we start, dear listener, a quick warning. This episode

23
00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 2: describes suicide in graphic language. On May thirteenth, twenty fifteen,

24
00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,600
Speaker 2: Jose DeJesus de Nissagun had a birthday party. It was small,

25
00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,440
Speaker 2: just his parents and some family and friends. They celebrated

26
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 2: on the back patio of their modest home on an

27
00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,399
Speaker 2: isolated stretch of coast in Central Mexico. Jose Dejsus was

28
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 2: turning thirty one years old. They were celebrating a birthday,

29
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,920
Speaker 2: but they were also saying goodbye. The day after the party,

30
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 2: Jose would take a plane and a bus to the

31
00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,240
Speaker 2: Mexican border and then attempt to cross the desert into

32
00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,680
Speaker 2: the United States. His goal was to reunite with his

33
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,680
Speaker 2: three young children, who lived in Las Vegas with their mother.

34
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 2: Jose missed them terribly and for years he had dreamed

35
00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,519
Speaker 2: of being near them again. But just seven days after

36
00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 2: his party, Jose was dead in a US immigration detention center.

37
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 2: It was a suicide, a suicide by asphyxiation, to be

38
00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:27,160
Speaker 2: more precise. During the autopsy, the medical examiner found lodged

39
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:36,680
Speaker 2: deep in Jose's throat a bunched up orange sock. Jose

40
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,919
Speaker 2: had been in the Elloyd Detention Center in Arizona for

41
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,640
Speaker 2: just three days. He didn't have a history of mental illness,

42
00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,040
Speaker 2: according to his family, and he was coming to the

43
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 2: US with a purpose to be with his kids.

44
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,040
Speaker 1: So what happened?

45
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,680
Speaker 2: Romedia and PRX It's Latino USA. I'm Marieno Rossac Today,

46
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,960
Speaker 2: Episode one of a two part special investigation. We look

47
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,720
Speaker 2: into one man's death and what it tells us about

48
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 2: the unseen world of immigrant detention in the United States.

49
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 2: Over the course of almost a year, from twenty fifteen

50
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 2: through twenty sixteen, producers Marlon Bishop, Fernando Charvari and I

51
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,400
Speaker 2: reported on the circumstances around Jose de Jsus's unusual death,

52
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,360
Speaker 2: and you'll be hearing the three of us narrating this story.

53
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,960
Speaker 2: We took trips all over the country and in Mexico,

54
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,320
Speaker 2: conducted dozens of interviews, and poured through government documents in

55
00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:53,120
Speaker 2: an attempt to understand just what happened to Jose Dejsus.

56
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 2: It was quite a different time in our country. President

57
00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,640
Speaker 2: Obama was still in the White House and there was

58
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:04,440
Speaker 2: far less national media attention on immigration and the detention system.

59
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,160
Speaker 2: But what we uncovered about how detention works and why

60
00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 2: migrants are dying in detention is more relevant now than ever.

61
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,599
Speaker 2: So we're going to bring back our two part radio

62
00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,760
Speaker 2: documentary aired in twenty sixteen. It's the story of the

63
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,960
Speaker 2: life and death of one immigrant detainee, and we're asking

64
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 2: the questions, why did Jose Dejsues die in custody of

65
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 2: the United States in such a strange way and what

66
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:40,200
Speaker 2: does his death tell us about conditions inside immigration detention facilities.

67
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 2: We first heard about this story in twenty fifteen while

68
00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,200
Speaker 2: Marlon and I were on a reporting trip in Phoenix, Arizona.

69
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,919
Speaker 3: Head west on West Elm Street toward North Nineteenth Avenue,

70
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,480
Speaker 3: then turn right onto a North nineteenth Avenue.

71
00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,320
Speaker 1: It was the height of summer.

72
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,440
Speaker 2: Is what is the temper you're reading right now on.

73
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,960
Speaker 1: It says one oh five on the car. If we're

74
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,280
Speaker 1: to believe it, that's pretty high.

75
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 2: We've been in touch with an immigrant advocacy group called

76
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,880
Speaker 2: PINE and they invited us to their office.

77
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,080
Speaker 1: They invited us because something weird was going on and

78
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:18,039
Speaker 1: it had to do with Jose.

79
00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,800
Speaker 4: We started getting letters from the Eloid Detention Center, anonymous letters.

80
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,360
Speaker 4: People are obviously scared.

81
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,160
Speaker 2: This is Francisca Barcas. She's the organizing director at Bwinde.

82
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,640
Speaker 4: It literally happened right after his death. Right after his

83
00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,440
Speaker 4: death was on May twentieth, and probably early June is

84
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,719
Speaker 4: when we started getting letters and then we were like, okay,

85
00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,400
Speaker 4: something's gonna like something's happening.

86
00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:45,719
Speaker 1: Puente is one of the main groups in the area

87
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 1: that helps immigrants and detention get legal representation so people

88
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,000
Speaker 1: on the inside not to contact them when something comes up.

89
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,559
Speaker 5: And for a little context, the people inside detention range

90
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,479
Speaker 5: from those who were caught crossing the border recently to

91
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 5: people who have been living in the US for decades

92
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,200
Speaker 5: and maybe their immigration status came up during a traffic

93
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,919
Speaker 5: stop or a workplace. Right the people that are in

94
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,480
Speaker 5: detention are either waiting to be deported or they're waiting

95
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,480
Speaker 5: for a court date to find out if they can

96
00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:13,280
Speaker 5: stay one.

97
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,719
Speaker 1: They gets letters from the tainees all the time, but

98
00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,040
Speaker 1: they had never received so many letters before. Dozens. They

99
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,960
Speaker 1: were filled with accounts of Jose's death.

100
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:22,160
Speaker 2: Do you have the letters here?

101
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:23,799
Speaker 4: Let me look at my desk quickly.

102
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 1: That's a lot of letters.

103
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,000
Speaker 2: So this is May twenty six.

104
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 6: Here, Hosa Sagon got thrown into a cell and a

105
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,000
Speaker 6: building Bravo six hundred like an animal. They ripped his

106
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 6: clothes off, did not give him a mattress until around

107
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,680
Speaker 6: ten pm. All he was asking was a phone call

108
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:49,000
Speaker 6: to his family or lawyer, which never happened. He was ignored,

109
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:54,279
Speaker 6: like if he wasn't even there. He was so stressed

110
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,719
Speaker 6: and desperate at that point.

111
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,599
Speaker 2: So he continued saying he was so streed and desperate

112
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,839
Speaker 2: at that point that it pushed him to commit suicide.

113
00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,280
Speaker 2: I believe Jose Sai Wound's death could have been prevented,

114
00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,840
Speaker 2: just like other previous deaths that Alloyd Detention Center has had.

115
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,920
Speaker 2: In other letters, several detainees wrote that they heard screaming

116
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,880
Speaker 2: coming from hose cell and believed he was beaten up

117
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,360
Speaker 2: by guards. One wrote that Jose was tasered in pepper sprayed,

118
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,200
Speaker 2: but all of them suggested that he was mistreated in detention.

119
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 1: It's hard to know for sure which, if any, of

120
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,160
Speaker 1: the accounts were first hand and which were rumors to

121
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 1: kind that fly through the detention center when big things happen,

122
00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,280
Speaker 1: but it was clear that detainees at Eloy were upset

123
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 1: and freaked out because nobody at the detention center was

124
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:41,640
Speaker 1: telling them what was going on.

125
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,760
Speaker 2: Then a week later, some detainees said they went on

126
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,080
Speaker 2: a hunger strike to protest the conditions inside Eloy and

127
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,800
Speaker 2: to protest Jose's death.

128
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,200
Speaker 1: All of it was a sign that people inside the

129
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 1: detention center wanted to be heard.

130
00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 4: These letters get opened before we get them, and so

131
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 4: that's how we know there's a serious case here to investigate.

132
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 4: If people are both putting themselves out there and putting

133
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,360
Speaker 4: their bodies on the line through a hunger strike, so

134
00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,560
Speaker 4: I want there to be a real investigation.

135
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,560
Speaker 5: People outside the detention center were also talking about the

136
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 5: unusual way that Jose had died. One Democratic Congressman from

137
00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,520
Speaker 5: Tucson even called for the US Department of Justice to

138
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 5: investigate his death while activists protested.

139
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 1: Recent detainees deaths.

140
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,200
Speaker 5: The men started the hunger strike this morning.

141
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,080
Speaker 1: Then protesters say they were kept outside in the heat

142
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:35,080
Speaker 1: by doors.

143
00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,840
Speaker 5: As retaliation, But at the time ICE officials weren't saying much.

144
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,080
Speaker 2: ICE stands for Immigration and Customs Enforcement. It's the government

145
00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,160
Speaker 2: agency that is charged with detaining and deporting immigrants. And

146
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,160
Speaker 2: remember that acronym because it's going to come up a

147
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 2: lot during this episode.

148
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,120
Speaker 5: All they had said was that a man died inside

149
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,320
Speaker 5: the Eloid Detention Center because of unknown causes. Then weeks later,

150
00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,320
Speaker 5: ICE released another statement saying that a medical examiner ruled

151
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 5: Jose's death a suicide.

152
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,199
Speaker 1: Hither for an interview with doctor Tess. A month and

153
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,400
Speaker 1: a half after Hose's death, I visited doctor Gregory Hess.

154
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,640
Speaker 1: He's the medical examiner from Pema County, Arizona, who performed

155
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,800
Speaker 1: the autopsy and reviewed Hosse's file from when he was detained.

156
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 7: He was having what they were describing as delusional thoughts,

157
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,800
Speaker 7: so he was trying to bang his head against the wall,

158
00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,319
Speaker 7: saying people were going to kill him. I'm just kind

159
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,679
Speaker 7: of bizarre behavior. And he was seen by a psychologist

160
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 7: at that facility who put him on a constant suicide

161
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,200
Speaker 7: watch for about a day.

162
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,199
Speaker 2: This was just the second day Josse was in the

163
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 2: detention center. He was locked up in a room alone

164
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,559
Speaker 2: with a guard watching him at all times. On the

165
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 2: third day, the day he died, he was no longer

166
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 2: on suicide watch and was under far less supervision.

167
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 5: Doctor Hes, by the way, works for the county. He's

168
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,160
Speaker 5: not connected to ICE or to the private company that

169
00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,760
Speaker 5: runs the Eloid Detention Center.

170
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,160
Speaker 1: Doctor Hess found a few things during the autopsy. He

171
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,800
Speaker 1: discovered what the autopsy report called, quote blunt force injuries

172
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,160
Speaker 1: to the head. He says he doesn't know when those injuries.

173
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 7: Occurred, whether it was during his episode of bizarre behavior,

174
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,160
Speaker 7: whether or not he was being restrained by corrections officials,

175
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,640
Speaker 7: whether or not he received that somehow crossing the border

176
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:19,360
Speaker 7: in the first place.

177
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,199
Speaker 5: But he says it wasn't serious, essentially a bruise or

178
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 5: a bump.

179
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:23,040
Speaker 2: On the head.

180
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,800
Speaker 7: It doesn't have anything to do with his death.

181
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,960
Speaker 5: It's worth noting that doctor Hes also read in Jose's

182
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,520
Speaker 5: file that he was quote restrained by guards, which could

183
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,960
Speaker 5: mean anything from being handcuffed to a more intense physical encounter.

184
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,840
Speaker 2: Doctor has also found a white plastic candle about four

185
00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:44,840
Speaker 2: inches long inside Hosse's stomach. It appeared to be part

186
00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:45,800
Speaker 2: of a toothbrush.

187
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,840
Speaker 7: In my opinion, he probably consumed that toothbrush prior to

188
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 7: the sock, with the thought that if I consume this

189
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 7: it will it may kill me.

190
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,240
Speaker 1: Last, and most importantly, he found the sock, a bright orange,

191
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 1: knee high thick prison sock.

192
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,320
Speaker 7: The sock was bunched up, but essentially it was molded

193
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:09,760
Speaker 7: into the esophagus, so imagine he had to work to

194
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,000
Speaker 7: make that happen a little bit. So essentially that sock

195
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,240
Speaker 7: was was distending and impacted within the esophagus. The most

196
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 7: of the sock was including the entrance to the trichea,

197
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,800
Speaker 7: so basically what that is is choking.

198
00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,080
Speaker 1: The autopsy found there were no drugs in Hose's system,

199
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,440
Speaker 1: nor any other medical problems that could have led to

200
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,360
Speaker 1: his death, and so after looking at the evidence, doctor

201
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,400
Speaker 1: Hess certified Jose's death a suicide by asphyxiation with a sock.

202
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,280
Speaker 2: And for many people we spoke to in the immigrant

203
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 2: advocacy community and detainees at ELOI, the sock was suspicious

204
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,520
Speaker 2: a part of the story that didn't add up to

205
00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,760
Speaker 2: them because it's hard to imagine that anybody could die

206
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:52,200
Speaker 2: that way.

207
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,959
Speaker 1: Doctor Hess has never seen a case like this before,

208
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,559
Speaker 1: but he cautioned against thinking it's impossible.

209
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:03,480
Speaker 7: It's difficult to look at people that commit suicide after

210
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,840
Speaker 7: the fact and then rationalize actions. Why would they not

211
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 7: hang themselves and stead, you know, I have no idea.

212
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 7: Oftentimes suicides are people that aren't thinking clearly because they

213
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,199
Speaker 7: have depression, they have psychiatric illness. They may be on substances.

214
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 7: I have no idea what this individual's past medical history was,

215
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,679
Speaker 7: but I'm sure being apprehended and thrown into a facility

216
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,800
Speaker 7: can be stressing, and maybe that's the way he reacted.

217
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,840
Speaker 1: Is there any medical possibility that this man was murdered. No,

218
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,680
Speaker 1: So what we know so far is that the medical

219
00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,000
Speaker 1: evidence shows that Hose the Hissus died by suicide after

220
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,319
Speaker 1: choking on a knisak. But we still had other questions.

221
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,120
Speaker 2: How could this happen just three days after entering the

222
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,280
Speaker 2: eloid Detention Center and who Jose the Hissus. To answer

223
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,600
Speaker 2: that question, we had to meet the Denis Sagoon family.

224
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 2: Stay with us Notes, Welcome back to this special edition

225
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,840
Speaker 2: of Latino USA. I'm Marie no Josa with producers Fernando

226
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,400
Speaker 2: Charari and Marlon Bishop.

227
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,160
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm recording. Where are we?

228
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,760
Speaker 2: We are in a cab now. We just landed in

229
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,640
Speaker 2: Las Vegas and we're on our way to meet the

230
00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,319
Speaker 2: family of Jose de Jesus Sagoon that has agreed to

231
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,040
Speaker 2: speak with us. And for me, honestly, it's a very

232
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,480
Speaker 2: it's a it's an uncomfortable feeling. I am it's going

233
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:46,199
Speaker 2: to be really hard.

234
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:47,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too.

235
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I would hate to think, like if my son,

236
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 2: if something happened to my son in a foreign country,

237
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,320
Speaker 2: that then I'd have to come back and try to

238
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,720
Speaker 2: piece it together. About a month and a half after

239
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,480
Speaker 2: the death of Osse the Hissus, we visited Las Vegas,

240
00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,440
Speaker 2: where his brother and sister live. His parents, who live

241
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,680
Speaker 2: in Mexico, had flown up to Vegas to spend some

242
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,560
Speaker 2: time with the family after the tragedy.

243
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,120
Speaker 1: Our taxi pulls into a brand new looking suburban subdivision

244
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,200
Speaker 1: and we get out at a handsome ranch house. You ready.

245
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,480
Speaker 2: Jose's brother Gabriel opens the door and invites us in.

246
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 2: The family is seated at the kitchen table eating takeout.

247
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,400
Speaker 2: We're greeted by Jose's father, Silberio, a man with sad

248
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 2: eyes and a big silver mustache.

249
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,760
Speaker 1: He says the pain they're feeling is deep, and over

250
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,880
Speaker 1: the course of several hours, the family shares Jose's story.

251
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,080
Speaker 2: Silberio and his wife Elisa, manage a small hotel on

252
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,760
Speaker 2: the coast of Mexico, and their kids grew up on

253
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,280
Speaker 2: the grounds. Jose was the second oldest. His nickname in

254
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 2: the family was Pecoso because of his freckles.

255
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,400
Speaker 8: He was the kind of brother that he used to

256
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,080
Speaker 8: protect us from everything or anything.

257
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,720
Speaker 5: Gabriel is five years younger than Jose, and he looked

258
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:11,600
Speaker 5: up to his big brother.

259
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 8: He was kind, he have a good heart, and he

260
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 8: was brave on his life.

261
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 1: When Jose de Hesus turned nineteen, like many young men

262
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,080
Speaker 1: from his little town, he decided to try his luck

263
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,840
Speaker 1: in the US. He came without papers and found work

264
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 1: as a plumber here in Las Vegas.

265
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,480
Speaker 8: He wish he can be born in this country. He

266
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 8: always used to say that I want to be American.

267
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 8: I don't know why I am not born in Mexico.

268
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 2: Josse met a woman here and they had three kids.

269
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,800
Speaker 2: But seven years after Jose arrived in the States, his father,

270
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 2: sid Video, became very sick with a heart condition. They

271
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 2: weren't sure if he would live much longer, and Jose

272
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,880
Speaker 2: returned to Mexico so they could spend some time together.

273
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,000
Speaker 5: His girlfriend and kids came with him to Mexico. There

274
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,120
Speaker 5: they got married, but the relationship soured quickly, so his

275
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,920
Speaker 5: wife and kids went back to Vegas. They had legal

276
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,920
Speaker 5: status in the US, but Jose.

277
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 8: Did it my brother was stuck in Mexico, always trying

278
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 8: to come back.

279
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 1: To fly for his kids.

280
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 8: You know.

281
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 1: For five years, Jose lived with his parents in Mexico,

282
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 1: doing odd jobs to help his dad and dreaming of

283
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,800
Speaker 1: reuniting with his kids. By that point, his brother and

284
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,120
Speaker 1: sister had moved to the US. He missed them a

285
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:24,240
Speaker 1: lot too. The siblings stayed in touch on Facebook sharing photos.

286
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,680
Speaker 2: These are great photographs. So this is a photograph of

287
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 2: Josejess who's doing a headstand on the with the ocean

288
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 2: right next to him, and his little boy doing a

289
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 2: headstand right next to him as well. In the photos

290
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,160
Speaker 2: we see a man with short, dark brown hair, light skin,

291
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,120
Speaker 2: and green eyes. Often Jose wears are closely trimmed beard

292
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 2: and a chain around his neck with a cross on it.

293
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 2: His siblings describe him as a jokester and something of

294
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 2: a ham.

295
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 1: In the years he was living back in Mexico, Jose

296
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,480
Speaker 1: tried to cross the border to get back into the

297
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 1: States twice. Both times he was caught and deported. Then,

298
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,760
Speaker 1: in May twenty fifteen, the day after his thirty first birthday,

299
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 1: he decided to try again.

300
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 7: Jodo lotengo bim presente kiss thing.

301
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,240
Speaker 2: The first step was to take a plane to get

302
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,200
Speaker 2: close to the border. Sin Verio gave Jose a lift

303
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 2: to the airport. It was the last time he saw

304
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,440
Speaker 2: his son, and he remembers it very clearly.

305
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 7: Laimbezol.

306
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,159
Speaker 2: He told Jose to go with God and with the Virgin,

307
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,400
Speaker 2: and gave him a kiss on the forehead in Medico.

308
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 7: Papa de jojo loo lo kiero moch.

309
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 2: I love you very much, dad, Jose told him, and

310
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,960
Speaker 2: then with a hug and a kiss off he went.

311
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,359
Speaker 5: Josef Lutuelosillo in the north of Mexico. His family paid

312
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 5: for the services of a coyote, as smugglers who guide

313
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,040
Speaker 5: immigrants across the border are known, and the smuggler took

314
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,639
Speaker 5: him to a safe house in Awaprieta, just across the

315
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 5: border from Arizona. There they'd wait for the right moment

316
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,920
Speaker 5: to walk through the desert into the US.

317
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,159
Speaker 1: And just to zoom out for a second. Crossing the

318
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,439
Speaker 1: border is a really, really dangerous thing to do. The

319
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 1: coyote's job is to get their people across, but there

320
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,680
Speaker 1: are all kinds of things that can happen. There's the

321
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,719
Speaker 1: natural dangers of dehydration and getting lost in the desert.

322
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 1: And then there's the human dangers cartels and gang members

323
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,359
Speaker 1: who seek to rip off migrants, corrupt cops and border towns,

324
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,480
Speaker 1: bad coyotes who double cross the people they're ferrying across.

325
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,199
Speaker 1: For female migrants, sexual assaults are really common. Sometimes everything

326
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,840
Speaker 1: works out fine, other times it doesn't.

327
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,640
Speaker 5: And in Jose's case, something goes very wrong at the border,

328
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 5: and this is where things start to get confusing to

329
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:40,879
Speaker 5: piece together.

330
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 1: The day after he leaves home Friday night, around midnight, Rosario,

331
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 1: that's Jose's sister in Las Vegas, she gets a call

332
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:48,000
Speaker 1: from her brother.

333
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,199
Speaker 9: Jaius this dormis Aye one.

334
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,639
Speaker 5: Pa Bossett tells her they're about to cross the border

335
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 5: earlier than expected. She says, great, call me when you

336
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 5: get to Phoenix and we'll come pick you up.

337
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,719
Speaker 1: Then over the phone, she hears an argument between two

338
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 1: people yelling as to those persona.

339
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 5: Somebody mentions a commandante a commander, but she can't really

340
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 5: hear what they're saying.

341
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 1: The call drops. Five minutes later, Jose calls her back

342
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 1: and now he's running and saying the smuggler wanted to

343
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 1: kill him, and he sounds really panicked. She's never heard

344
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 1: him sound so scared in her life. While they're on

345
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,440
Speaker 1: the phone, he flags down a car and offers the

346
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 1: driver money to take him to the official border checkpoint. There.

347
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 1: While he's still on the phone with his sister, he

348
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 1: runs up to US border patrol and hands himself in,

349
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 1: saying he needs protection.

350
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 2: So you felt like he was going to be safe

351
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,880
Speaker 2: because he was in American agent's hands.

352
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 1: That was my first thing.

353
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 8: He was in good hands. Looks after that, we can

354
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 8: get a lawyer, do something, take him to co or

355
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:01,639
Speaker 8: whatever we can do for him.

356
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 5: In the morning, their mom in Mexico gets a call

357
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 5: from the smuggler with a different story. He tells her

358
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,679
Speaker 5: that Jose disappeared. He said he was going out to

359
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 5: the store to get some juice and never came back.

360
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 1: Whatever happened, Jose ends up in US custody near the border.

361
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,639
Speaker 1: We know that much. Then two days later, on Monday morning,

362
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 1: Rosario gets another call from her brother. He tells her

363
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 1: he's been taken to the Elloyd Detention Center a few

364
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 1: hours north in Arizona.

365
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 2: When he calls you, what did he sound like, blas,

366
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 2: she says, he sounded excited to be in the US,

367
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 2: but was anxious to get out of detention. She tells

368
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 2: him be patient. We're going to find a lawyer and

369
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 2: we're going to get you out.

370
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 1: Over the next two days, Gabrielle and Rosadio call the

371
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 1: detention center several times, hoping to check up on their brother,

372
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: but they're never able to speak with him. They're told

373
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,879
Speaker 1: that they have to first put money on an account

374
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,640
Speaker 1: for him, then wait a while, and then Jose can

375
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 1: call them.

376
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 5: What they're not told is that he was acting bizarre,

377
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 5: or that he was seen by a psychiatrist, or that

378
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 5: he was put on suicide watch.

379
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: According to the accounts of other detainees, Jose at this

380
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 1: point is desperate to talk to his family. At the

381
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: same time, all his family wants to do is to

382
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 1: talk to him, but it doesn't happen.

383
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: The last time his siblings try to call is on Wednesday.

384
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 2: The same afternoon, Jose dies.

385
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 8: Right after five and I call the a detention center

386
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 8: asking for my brother, and the guy goes like, oh,

387
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 8: hold on, you can't talk to him right now. You

388
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 8: got a comeback tomorrow between seventy three. The next morning,

389
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 8: chi Herakal from the Mexican consul, saying that they found

390
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 8: my brother dead in he's ill.

391
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 5: In shock, Gabrielle and Rosadio drives straight from Las Vegas

392
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 5: to Tucson, where Jose's body is being held. They retrieve

393
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 5: it and hold awake in a local funeral home.

394
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: Seeing her brother lying in the coffin, Rosadio was overcome,

395
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 2: She says. She leaned over the casket and spoke to him.

396
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: What did they do to you?

397
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 7: She said, already?

398
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 2: Why didn't you defend yourself? How come you didn't wait

399
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 2: for me? No, miss Pinasta, forgive me brother for having

400
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 2: failed you.

401
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 10: Look at you in.

402
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 11: Mano.

403
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,679
Speaker 1: After hearing the story from the family, we didn't know

404
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: what to think. On one hand, his behavior at the

405
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 1: border sounds erradic. You know, he's running, he's panicked, he's

406
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: yelling on the phone to his sister that the coyote

407
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: wants to kill him. And remember, according to the documents

408
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: reviewed by the medical Examiner, he was acting strangely in

409
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: the tension a few days later. So it's possible that

410
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: Jose de Jsus was having some kind of paranoid episode

411
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: at the border. But on the other hand, it's totally plausible,

412
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 1: given the realities of crossing the border, that somebody actually

413
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 1: was trying to kill him, So maybe he was acting

414
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: rationally and US authorities thought he was crazy when he

415
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: was really just scared.

416
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 5: As for the events after he was in US custody,

417
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 5: the family has even less information. They just don't know

418
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 5: much about what went on inside the Eloid Detention Center

419
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 5: on the days leading up to his death.

420
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: We need the truth.

421
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 8: We need to see their recording tapes.

422
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 2: That's what we want, the recording tapes. Skavil is talking

423
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 2: about surveillance footage. He knows the medical examiner watched is

424
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 2: video that could have major clues as to what happened

425
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 2: to Jose. But getting those tapes won't be so easy.

426
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: Technically, anybody can ask a government agency for things like

427
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: documents or videos, and the government is supposed to try

428
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: and fill those requests, and that's because of transparency laws.

429
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 1: One of those laws is called the Freedom of Information

430
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: Act or FOYA for sure.

431
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 5: So in this case, we wrote up a few foyas.

432
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 5: We asked Eyes for all documents relating to Hose's case,

433
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 5: video of is last day and attention, a list of

434
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 5: staff working at Eloy at the time, and some other stuff.

435
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 5: And then we waited.

436
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 2: Because usually these public record requests take a long time to.

437
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 5: Fill, and sometimes the government ends up either denying these

438
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 5: requests or severely redacting what they give you, leaving reporters

439
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 5: and families with unanswered questions.

440
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: And the lack of transparency is especially a problem for

441
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 1: facilities that are run by private companies. You've probably heard

442
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,239
Speaker 1: of the private prison industry. For decades, the government has

443
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: been contracting out correctional services, that is the work of

444
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: imprisoning people for criminal violations, to private companies, companies that

445
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: staff and build and operate prisons. That's also true for

446
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: immigrant attention, and they're the same companies doing both.

447
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 5: So immigrant attention is like prison in a lot of ways.

448
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 5: When you arrive, your strip search, fingerprinted, given a uniform,

449
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 5: and taken to a cell. But unlike prisons, the people

450
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 5: inside are held because of immigration violations, which are not

451
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 5: criminal charges. They haven't been found guilty in a cour

452
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 5: room or been given a sentence. Here's Grace meng, a

453
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 5: senior researcher at Human Rights Watch.

454
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 12: Because it's not like a criminal justice system in some ways,

455
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 12: it can be more traumatic, is indefinite, there's no sentence.

456
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 12: People have told me, if I knew when I was

457
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 12: getting out, that would be one thing, but I don't

458
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 12: know when I'm going to get out.

459
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 5: For some detention last a couple of weeks, for others

460
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 5: it's months or even years.

461
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 12: I'm at a mat a couple of weeks ago who

462
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 12: spent nine years and four months in immigration intension fighting

463
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 12: his case, and the psychological toll is enormous.

464
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 5: And what makes this more challenging is having to navigate

465
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 5: this whole process without a lawyer.

466
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 13: Unlike in the criminal context, an individual who's in our

467
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 13: custody is not entitled to free legal services.

468
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: That's Liz City Opata. She's a high ranking official within

469
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 2: Ice cityopa Ata says that people who are in ice

470
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: custody have to either hire someone to represent them, find

471
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 2: a pro bono lawyer, or try to represent themselves.

472
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 13: These are civil immigration proceedings, not criminal proceedings, and therefore

473
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 13: no constitutional right to council.

474
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: So immigrant detainees don't have many of the same rights

475
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: as prisoners in the criminal system. That's maybe why so

476
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: many of them end up staying in detention longer than

477
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: they should.

478
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: And at the time we originally produced this report, I

479
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 2: says over three hundred thousand people went through the detention

480
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 2: system yearly.

481
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 13: It's a difficult thing to manage alone, and we depend

482
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 13: on vendors who can provide the services that we need

483
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 13: to accommodate all of those varying needs from the global

484
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 13: population which we hold in our custody.

485
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 9: Our destination, the best full service adult correction system.

486
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 5: Our vision is our motiva.

487
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: This is sound from a promotional video for one of

488
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 2: those vendors, CCA, the Corrections Corporation of America, which runs

489
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 2: the Elloyd Detention Center.

490
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 5: CCA, which has since changed its name to core Civic,

491
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 5: is one of the largest private prison corporations running detention

492
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 5: centers for ICE. The government spends somewhere between seventy and

493
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 5: one hundred and twenty dollars a night for every detaining

494
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 5: day hold. I think of.

495
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: Seventeen thousand employees.

496
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 3: We combined the accountability of government with the efficiency of business.

497
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 10: People in the detention centers. Shul have knew that ELOI

498
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 10: was the worst of the worst.

499
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: This is Victoria Lopez. She's a lawyer for the ACOU

500
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,719
Speaker 2: in Phoenix and works a lot with immigrants and detention

501
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: At ELOI.

502
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 10: Constant complaints about medical care, mental health care being placed

503
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 10: in segregation without knowing why or knowing when you'd get out.

504
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 5: We should mention that we requested an interview with CCA,

505
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 5: but we're denied that. Instead, CCA officials said that they

506
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 5: would respond to some questions in writing, so we sent

507
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 5: questions but got no response.

508
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: Despite its reputation, Eloy has passed all of ICE's compliance

509
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: tests that are supposed to make sure everything is going

510
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: well and that the detention center is meeting basic standards.

511
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 5: Yet Eloy is also the detention center that has had

512
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 5: the most.

513
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 10: Deaths in the middle of the desert in Arizona. It's

514
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 10: one of these places where you're just driving in the

515
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 10: desert and all of a sudden you see this massive

516
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 10: prison in the middle of the desert landscape.

517
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: Ten a few months after Jose's death, Marlon and I

518
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: paid a visit to the Eloy Detention Center to get

519
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: a sense of what it's like to be detained there.

520
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: The actual town of Eloi is about an hour outside

521
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: of Phoenix, and basically it's a tiny company town for CCA.

522
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: There are three CIA prisons in Eloi in addition to

523
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: the detention center, including one that holds almost all of

524
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: the male prisoners from Hawaii. Yeah, if you're a man

525
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: convicted of a crime in Hawaii, you might get put

526
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: on a plane and flow into this little town in Arizona.

527
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: We arrive at the Eloy Immigrant Detention Center, enter through

528
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: a large chain link gate, and walk into a building

529
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: where visitors are received.

530
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: After Jose's death, reporters were asking to come in and

531
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: see what was going on, including us, and so Ice

532
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: arranged for us to take part in a press tour.

533
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: A very tightly controlled press tour.

534
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: Yes, the rules were strict. No talking with the tainies,

535
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: no photos of anyone above the waist, and no recording

536
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: or quoting the comments of any government or CCA employee.

537
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: Over the course of several hours, they lead us through

538
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: the space is typical of what you'd imagine in a

539
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: high security prison.

540
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: Drab, gray cement buildings two stories high and fencing and

541
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 2: razor wire everywhere, literally everywhere.

542
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: They took us to the so called tanks where detainees live,

543
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: cement floor, the wreck.

544
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: Yard, a couple of basketball nets.

545
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 1: The chow hal mush, the commissaria.

546
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: There's salt and pepper, McCormick hot taco seasoning.

547
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: And what was really eerie about being there was looking

548
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: at people's feet because everyone was wearing identical thick orange socks,

549
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: the same type Jose choked on.

550
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: And what was more striking was something that happened in

551
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: the parking lot. We met a woman named Susie Morale.

552
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: She was there to pick up her elderly grandmother who

553
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 2: was inside the detention c age.

554
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 11: Old my grandma, and she's diabetic, slightly going blindness. Why

555
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 11: they decided to let her go because they thought that

556
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 11: someone with in that high end age they shouldn't. She

557
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 11: shouldn't be here. It's just overwhelming. It's a place you

558
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 11: don't want to see your grandma in because you think

559
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 11: the worst. You think that she's behind bars when she's

560
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 11: never committed anything.

561
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that was most striking about being

562
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: in Eloy. For all intents and purposes, it's this intimidating prison.

563
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: Yet looking around, I was really aware that the people

564
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: I was seeing weren't violent criminals. I mean, yes, some

565
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: do have criminal records, there's no doubt about that, but

566
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: a lot of them don't. And so I couldn't help

567
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: but think about Jose, who didn't have a criminal record,

568
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: showed up at the border asking for help and ended

569
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: up here.

570
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: After the tour, we were allowed to interview two detainees briefly.

571
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: They didn't witness Josse his death, so we didn't learn

572
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: much from them. But before we left, we passed them

573
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: a piece of paper with our phone numbers on it,

574
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: and we asked them, if you hear of anyone that

575
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: has any information about Jose, let us know.

576
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: So the tour ends, we go back home to New York.

577
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: Months go by, and then one day I get this

578
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: text message. It was kind of a reporter's dream.

579
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 5: It just said in Spanish, my name is Juan Castillo Peris.

580
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 5: I witnessed the death of Jose de Jesu's de Nis Sagon.

581
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 5: Please call me so.

582
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: Right away, Fernanda and I called him. Hello.

583
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, we meet the man who

584
00:31:46,560 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 2: sent us that mysterious text message. Stay with uses, Welcome

585
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: back to this special edition of Latino USA. I'm Marieojosa

586
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: with producers Marlon Bishop and Fernando Chavari.

587
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 5: When we left off, we had just gotten a text

588
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 5: message from an unknown number. It was a man named

589
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 5: Juan Castillo Peris, saying he had witnessed the death of

590
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 5: Jose de Jesus.

591
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: So right away Fernanda and I call him hello. Castillo

592
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: One tells us he was in the medical unit recovering

593
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: from a broken leg in a room directly across from Jose.

594
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: He since has been deported back to Mexico. He says

595
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: he used to work as a police detective in Central

596
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: Mexico back in the day, and he kind of talks

597
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: like a no nonsense detective from an old movie.

598
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 5: Kwan tells us that he was probably the last person

599
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 5: to ever speak with Jose. He says a few hours

600
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 5: before his death, Jose was escorted out of his locked

601
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 5: room and taken to the shower. That's when the two

602
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 5: of them briefly talked. Juan told Jose to cheer up

603
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 5: because he had heard Jose make comments about wanting to die,

604
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 5: so Juan told him to be careful with those thoughts,

605
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 5: that he was young and that life was worth living,

606
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 5: and he says.

607
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: Jose responded with a sort of don't worry, Everything's cool.

608
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: Juan says he was there when the guards noticed Jose

609
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: was inside his cell and not responding.

610
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 5: He remembers hearing a guard call out Jose's name and

611
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 5: bang on his door during one of the checkups, and

612
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 5: after a few minutes, that guard called for help on

613
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 5: the radio. That's when Juan and the other detainees were

614
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 5: asked to go back in their cells.

615
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: Juan thinks that Jose should not have been taken off

616
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: suicide watch, and.

617
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 5: If Jose had been monitored twenty four to seven, he says,

618
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 5: maybe he wouldn't have killed himself. And Juan tells us

619
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 5: something else that we hadn't heard yet, that the guards

620
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 5: responded too slowly, that they could have saved Jose.

621
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so, so far in our reporting, we have a

622
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: witness that says Jose could have been saved if the

623
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: medical response was faster. We have detaining letters that claim

624
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: that Jose was heard screaming and suggests that maybe he

625
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: was mistreated inside the detention center. And we have the

626
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: phone calls Jose made to his sister in the desert

627
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: that paint a picture, an incomplete one, but a picture

628
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: of what happened at the border.

629
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 5: But a question that still looms for us is what

630
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 5: was going on for him throughout all of this. If

631
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 5: Jose had no history of mental illness, as his family

632
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 5: has told us, how did he suddenly become suicidal? So

633
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 5: we decided to take a trip to Jose's hometown in Mexico,

634
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 5: where he was just seven days before he died. We

635
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 5: went in search of clues and we ended up finding one.

636
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 11: Welcome to Manzanillo's Airport for your information Local time.

637
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: Jose's parents, Siberio and Elisa live on a property they've

638
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: managed for thirty years on a remote beach on Mexico's

639
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: west coast near Manzanillo. It's like a small motel with

640
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: a pool in the middle and the Pacific Ocean as

641
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: a backdropora Jose's parents take us to his bedroom. There

642
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 2: is an elliptical in the corner, a bed against the wall,

643
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: and a dresser, and everything is just as it was

644
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: the day Jose left.

645
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 5: The only thing that's changed is now there's an altar

646
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 5: for Jose, where Silverio and Elsa come to pray, sometimes

647
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 5: with the help of a plastic electronic grocery.

648
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: Josse's eleven year old nephew, Pepito, also lives here, and

649
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: he says he used to spend a lot of time

650
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: with his uncle playing video games in this room.

651
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: He thought of Jose as an older brother.

652
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 2: He says his uncle was a little shy and would

653
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: spend a lot of time in his room, keeping to himself.

654
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 5: And actually Pepito is the only one in the family

655
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 5: who says Jose wasn't this happy outgoing personally. Everyone else

656
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 5: told us he was. Pepito says he was sad sometimes

657
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 5: and that the only thing that seemed to cheer him

658
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 5: up was talking to his kids on facetimes Lue. We

659
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 5: follow the Nisagun family on a twenty minute drive to

660
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 5: a tiny cemetery with only a couple dozen other gravestones.

661
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 5: The sun is about to set, and shortly after we

662
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 5: get there there's a large group of vultures circling over us.

663
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 5: The family built a raised grave for Jose out of

664
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 5: cement and tile, the kind you see in rural Mexico.

665
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 5: They decorated it with a large cross held up by

666
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 5: wooden posts, but all of that was destroyed by the

667
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 5: most recent hurricane.

668
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 2: Standing over his grave, they refused to believe Jose could

669
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: have killed himself, both because the thought of their son

670
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: doing that is unbearable, and also because they're devout Catholics.

671
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 5: Skins of.

672
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 11: And Nadan.

673
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 2: The biggest sin one can commit is suicide, Silverio says,

674
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: and there's no way my son could have done that.

675
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: No no, no.

676
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 8: Dress.

677
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 1: Before we leave, we ask if there's anyone else outside

678
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 1: of the family that we can talk to who knew Jose,

679
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 1: a doctor or maybe a priest, and.

680
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 5: They give us a phone number for their family doctor.

681
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 5: So we call him and he says he actually treated

682
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 5: Jose just months before he died, and that he's willing

683
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 5: to talk to us about why Jose came to see him.

684
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 14: So doctor Juan Manuel Aragon Morales her La Medicina.

685
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 5: Doctor Juan Manuel Aragon Morales has been treating people in

686
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 5: this small town for forty one years, and in March

687
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 5: of twenty fifteen, he remembers getting a call from Jose's parents.

688
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 9: Porce Andava Muitriste no.

689
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 5: De Primum, Silverio and Elisa brought Jose to doctor Aragon.

690
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 5: They told him that they noticed Jose was sad, he

691
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 5: didn't want to do anything and seemed depressed.

692
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 9: Percivo modo.

693
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 5: The doctor asked Jose a few questions. He asked Jose

694
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 5: if he had trouble sleeping, and he said yes. He

695
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 5: asked if he had ever thought of ending his life,

696
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 5: and Jose told the doctor he.

697
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 14: Had Cynthia and La Vida and the Sulta.

698
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 2: According to doctor Aragon, Jose did not seem to be

699
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 2: suffering from clinical depression. Instead, he had what the doctor

700
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: called moderate situational depression. That's the sort of temporary depression

701
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: that you might feel when somebody dies or after the

702
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: end of a relationship. In this case, Jose was missing

703
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 2: his kids terribly.

704
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 9: Hey, look as usio.

705
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: The doctor told Jose to taken over the counter antidepressant

706
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: every night before going to bed.

707
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 9: Said Yama Mirtasapina.

708
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: About twenty days later, the doctor saw Jose again. By

709
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: then he looked much better. He was more active in

710
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: the media, seemed to be working. A month after that,

711
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: he saw him again and there was even more improvement.

712
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 5: Doctor Adragon says that yes, Jose was emotionally more fragile

713
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 5: than someone who hadn't suffered from depression, but he did

714
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 5: not believe at the time that Jose was suicidal. He

715
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 5: told Jose to continue taking the antidepressants and wait to

716
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 5: get his papers sorted out before trying to cross the

717
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 5: US Mexico border to see his kids.

718
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: That would be the last time they saw each other.

719
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 5: We just left the doctor's office and we walked down

720
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 5: to a little restaurant.

721
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 2: So I have to say that the first words out

722
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:54,479
Speaker 2: of his mouth meybe caro fores they just I went cold.

723
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 2: His parents brought him here because he was.

724
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: Depressed, after telling us a hundred times that he was

725
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: never depressed.

726
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 5: Part of what I'm thinking, and especially having grown up

727
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 5: in Mexico, where any kind of mental illness, any kind

728
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 5: of depression, it's not something that families talk about in Mexico.

729
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 5: There is a lot of shame that comes with admitting

730
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 5: to having any kind of problem like this. Yes, I'm

731
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 5: shocked because the parents kept saying over and over that

732
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 5: he didn't have any problems, But in some ways I'm

733
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 5: not surprised.

734
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: Yet they gave us the doctor's contact, knowing that the

735
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: doctor knew something. Maybe it's that they wanted us to know,

736
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: but they couldn't say the words themselves, almost because it's

737
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: so painful.

738
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 5: It's our last day in Mexico, and when we get

739
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,919
Speaker 5: back to our hotel, I check my email and there's

740
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 5: something from ICE. It says final response to Foyer request.

741
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: This seems unusual because it's been only a month since

742
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: we sent our request on Jose's case, and these things

743
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: usually take a long time.

744
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 5: We're hoping these are the documents we're requested, or maybe

745
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 5: even the surveillance footage that we asked for. It's neither.

746
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 5: It's just a letter, Dear miss Ichavadi.

747
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 15: This is the final response to your Freedom of Information

748
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 15: Act request to your seersonnel, doctors, nurses, et cetera, who

749
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 15: were on duty on May twenty as twentytions for records

750
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 15: responsive to your request produced one Excel spreadsheet will be

751
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 15: withheld in its entirety pursuant you have the right to appeal.

752
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 15: Isis withholding determination and that is all we got, which

753
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 15: means we have been formally denied access to any video

754
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 15: that ever existed from the day of the death of

755
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 15: Jose the Jesus the Niece shallum.

756
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: So we leave Mexico knowing more about who Jose was.

757
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: We know that he had felt depressed and that he

758
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: was taking antidepressants at the direction of his doctor.

759
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 5: But we don't know when he stopped taking the antidepressants.

760
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 5: What we do know is that, according to the autopsy,

761
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 5: they were not in his system at the time he died.

762
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: So this question comes up. If he was already emotionally unstable,

763
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: how did being detained affect his mental state.

764
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 5: We leave Mexico still searching for some documentation of what

765
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 5: happened to Jose inside the detention center, answers that perhaps

766
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 5: could be in the reports and video that we were denied.

767
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 2: So we come back to New York City feeling like

768
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 2: we're never going to get what we need.

769
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: Then a week later, for none of that, gets a call.

770
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 5: It literally said on the caller id city of Eloi

771
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 5: all in caps. So I pick up the phone and

772
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 5: it's a woman that works for the local police department.

773
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 5: Now let's pause for a second. Remember how earlier in

774
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 5: the episode we talked about how we requested all this

775
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 5: information and documents from ICE. That wasn't the only place

776
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 5: where we went searching. And here's why. On the de

777
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 5: Jose died, the detention center had to call nine one one,

778
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 5: and in doing so, the local police department in paramedics

779
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 5: had to show up, leaving a paper trail of what happened. So,

780
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 5: a few weeks back, we had requested all the documents

781
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 5: regarding that incident from the small Eloy police department, and

782
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 5: that's what this call was about. They had the documents

783
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 5: ready to send via email, and it is forty eight

784
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 5: pages completely unredacted.

785
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: And honestly, this was really unexpected. All of a sudden,

786
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: we had a much better picture of what happened the

787
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:20,919
Speaker 1: day Jose died.

788
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,720
Speaker 5: The police department documents include first person narratives from guards

789
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 5: and medical staff who were there when Jose was found unresponsive.

790
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 5: Nobody said that when they walked in they saw a

791
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 5: sock in his mouth. They say, in fact, that he

792
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 5: was having problems breathing.

793
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: Said for he said, nobody reached into his mouth and

794
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: tried to help him.

795
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 5: Right because nobody saw a sock. According to these reports,

796
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 5: we also learned that Jose was still alive when the

797
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 5: guards entered his cell. They walked into his cell with

798
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:55,240
Speaker 5: a protective shield and handcuffed him before Jose received medical attention.

799
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: Even if that is procedure, to me, I mean that

800
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: tells me also some thing about the culture of a

801
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: detention center. I mean that is that is looking at

802
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: people as criminal threats.

803
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 2: The documents reveal that on his first day at ELOI,

804
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 2: Jose was with the general population and at some point

805
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 2: guards say he was saying things like they're after me,

806
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: They're gonna kill me, the exact same things he had

807
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 2: said to his sister on the phone when he was

808
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 2: at the border.

809
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: On the second day, there's an order from the psychiatrist

810
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: to put him on suicide watch, and that means he's

811
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: locked up by himself in a special cell, modified so

812
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: that there's nothing he can hurt himself with. The order

813
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: says he's not to have utensils, no betting, and only

814
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: a mattress on the floor. They take away his clothes

815
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: and issue him a smock that can't be torn to

816
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: create a news for example.

817
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 5: And there's another order from the same doctor a day

818
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 5: later on the third day. This one removes Jose from

819
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 5: suicide watch and puts him on a fifteen minute watch.

820
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 5: He's still locked up by himself and not with the

821
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 5: general population, but they give him back his normal uniform,

822
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 5: including his socks, and they have a guard check on

823
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 5: him every fifteen minutes.

824
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: Through the documents, we find out that at the five

825
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 2: point thirty check that evening, a guard found Jose lying

826
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: on his stomach, not moving in his cell. Less than

827
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: an hour later, he was pronounced dead.

828
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 5: Another thing we find is that there was a female

829
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 5: guard who took a video. It's some video that lasts

830
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 5: two minutes and fifty three seconds, and it is a

831
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 5: video of basically the CPR that was being done on

832
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 5: him and the last moments of hose De Jesus's life

833
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 5: inside the cell.

834
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: And the police department records say that a copy of

835
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: that video was taken to their evidence room along with

836
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: copies of the surveillance video.

837
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 5: I requested that this morning and we could get it.

838
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 2: We didn't know if getting copies of those videos would

839
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 2: actually be possible. The local police department in the city

840
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 2: of Eloy could deny our request.

841
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 5: Fast forward three weeks and we get a manila envelope

842
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 5: in the mail with a CD So I've just ripped

843
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 5: through this envelope and we're going to see what is

844
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 5: in the CDC.

845
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 1: Is going to be intense to watch.

846
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: I mean, this is it a handheld video taken by

847
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 2: a guard at the exact moment guards and medical staff

848
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 2: enter jose cell after they realize something is wrong. Oh

849
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 2: my god. All right, so the first thing we see

850
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 2: is actually just a stop frame of some feet like

851
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 2: looking like they're running.

852
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 5: How long the video is? How long is it?

853
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 7: Oh my god?

854
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 5: This is going to be intense people.

855
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 8: Okay, you.

856
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 9: Next time.

857
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 2: What happens in that video, how did the guards react?

858
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 2: We hear more about what ICE officials have to say

859
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 2: about the detention system, and a year after the death

860
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 2: of Hosse de Hissus, a report is released with details

861
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 2: about what happens to him from the moment he arrives

862
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 2: on the US border. The report helps answer some of

863
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: the most pressing questions about the strange death of Hosse Dejsus.

864
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 2: That's next time on Latino USA. This episode was produced

865
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 2: by Fernanda Charari and Marlon Bishop. It was mixed by

866
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: Cornelius mcmoilof original music for this episode was composed by

867
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 2: Noam Hassenfeld. This investigation was reported with assistance from The

868
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: Marshall Project, a nonprofit news organization covering criminal justice special

869
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: thanks to the Denise Savun family. The Latino USA team

870
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 2: includes Victoria Estradra, Renaldo Leanos Junior, Andrea Lopez Ruzslo, Dori

871
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 2: mar Marquez, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Nor Saudi, and Nancy Trujillo.

872
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 2: Panillei Ramidez is our co executive producer. Our director of

873
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: engineering is Stephanie Lebau. Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso.

874
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. Our theme music was

875
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,240
Speaker 2: composed by Zane Ruinos. I'm your host and executive producer

876
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 2: Mariao Josa. Join us again for our next episode, and

877
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 2: in the meantime, I'll see you on all of our

878
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: social media jaquerdre de bayas.

879
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 3: My Latino USA is made possible in part by the

880
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 3: Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of

881
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 3: social change worldwide. The John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur

882
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 3: Foundation funding for Latino USA is coverage of a culture

883
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 3: Sure of Health is made possible in part by a

884
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 3: grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.