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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to stuff Mom never told you. Now today we

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Speaker 1: have an update for you on something that we unpacked

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Speaker 1: a few months ago, and that is abortion in Ireland.

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Speaker 1: The Eighth Amendment, which effectively banned abortion in the Republic

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Speaker 1: of Ireland, has been formally repealed. Who in official Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Irish President Michael D. Higgins signed the Abortion ref Friendum

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Speaker 1: Bill into law on Tuesday. With the repeal of the

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Speaker 1: Eighth the Irish government's recommendation is that women will be

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Speaker 1: able to access a termination within the first twelve weeks

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Speaker 1: of their pregnancy. This is really a milestone for Ireland.

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Speaker 1: And I remember watching the election results sort of on

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Speaker 1: pins and needles. This has really been a long, hard,

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Speaker 1: bad for folks in Ireland, and I remember, you know,

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Speaker 1: hearing from a lot of the Semanti community who had

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Speaker 1: got home to vote to make their voices heard. So

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Speaker 1: I'm really thrilled that this is finally something that has happened,

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Speaker 1: and I hope that you'll enjoy this episode that really

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Speaker 1: chronicles how we got here, So please enjoy. Hey, this

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Speaker 1: is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're listening to

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Speaker 1: stuff Mom never told you. Now today we actually have

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Speaker 1: some good news. Yeah, good news. Hey you. I feel

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Speaker 1: like on the show so often we're talking about complete bummers. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is true. Um, this episode will have some bummers,

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Speaker 1: but it's not a complete bummer and has a bit

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Speaker 1: of a happy ending, which is that Ireland last month

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Speaker 1: voted to end the country's ban on abortion. Yes, that

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Speaker 1: is very good news and it is a very long

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Speaker 1: time coming. And today we just wanted to talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the history of Ireland's abortion laws and

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Speaker 1: how we got to where we are today. Yes, because

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Speaker 1: terminating at pregnancy has been a crime in Ireland since

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one. That the debate really got started in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, when abortion laws and attitudes were changing

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Speaker 1: in many places. Exactly, the UK legalized abortion up to

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Speaker 1: twenty eight weeks in nineteen sixty seven, and here in

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Speaker 1: the United States, the Supreme Court essentially legalized abortion in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three with Brow v. Wade. So basically, conservative

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Speaker 1: politicians and the Catholic Church were pretty alarmed by this

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Speaker 1: trend and they wanted to preempt any attempt to loosen

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Speaker 1: the Irish band on abortion, so they launched an active

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Speaker 1: campaign to introduce a constitutional amendment, which ended with a

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Speaker 1: referendum in nineteen eighty three. Sixty seven percent of Irish

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Speaker 1: voters voted for the Eighth Amendment, which basically banned abortion right.

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Speaker 1: The Eighth Amendment says the State acknowledges the right to

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Speaker 1: life of the unborn and with due regard to the

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Speaker 1: equal right to the life of the mother, garan tease

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Speaker 1: in its laws to respect and as far as practicable

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Speaker 1: by its laws, to defend and vindicate that right. This

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Speaker 1: law basically meant that you couldn't get an abortion in Ireland,

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Speaker 1: even in cases of vapor incest, and in some cases

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Speaker 1: even if it meant that you would die. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was fairly strict. One of the big flashpoints on the

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Speaker 1: issue in Ireland happened in with the case of x

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Speaker 1: X was an anonymous fourteen year old girl who, after

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Speaker 1: being raped, became pregnant. Her family planned to have her

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Speaker 1: travels with the UK to get an abortion, only to

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Speaker 1: find out that doing so was against the law. Ireland's

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Speaker 1: Attorney General blocked her traveling abroad through an injunction. Basically,

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Speaker 1: this girl was super depressed, he became suicidal and her

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Speaker 1: case really kind of became a flashpoint. It went to

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, which lifted the injunction and ruled that

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Speaker 1: abortions could take place if there was a real risk

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Speaker 1: to the life of the mother, including from suicide. But

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Speaker 1: since then, several attempts to remove suicide as grounds for abortion,

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Speaker 1: including a referendum into that and to have failed, but

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Speaker 1: that Supreme Court's ruling did not make it into legislation

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Speaker 1: for another twenty years. Wow. The this case led to

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Speaker 1: some changes. The government had a referendum on three questions,

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Speaker 1: whether suicide should be removed as grounds for abortion, whether

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Speaker 1: Irish people had a right to travel for abortion care,

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Speaker 1: and whether information about abortion should be available in Ireland.

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Speaker 1: The Irish voted to keep suicide as a legitimate reason

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Speaker 1: that abortion be permitted, and voted for the right to

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Speaker 1: travel and information. Two referendums in November of n made

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Speaker 1: it legal to travel abroad to seek abortions. Six or

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Speaker 1: two four percent of voters voted for this, and to

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Speaker 1: share information about foreign abortion services within Ireland. Nine women

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Speaker 1: and girls leave Ireland every day to get abortion services. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, on the one hand, it's good that people

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Speaker 1: had the ability to go, you know, to the UK

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Speaker 1: to get an abortion that they needed it. But that's

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Speaker 1: not accessible and it's expensive and not everybody can make

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Speaker 1: that journey. And so if the only way that you

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Speaker 1: have to get an abortion in Ireland is to spend

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Speaker 1: a lot of money to go to a different place

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Speaker 1: to get it, it's not really accessible. And if your

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Speaker 1: life depends on getting an abortion, that really could be

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Speaker 1: a death sentence. Absolutely. More than one seventy thousand women

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Speaker 1: and girls have traveled to another country for an abortion

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Speaker 1: since nineteen and the vast majority went to Britain, while

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Speaker 1: a smaller number went to the Netherlands. Getting the boat

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Speaker 1: is expensive and laborious and yeah, inaccessible. The Irish have

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Speaker 1: all kinds of euphemisms really in the country to get

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Speaker 1: an abortion, like getting the boat or simply traveling, but

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Speaker 1: it definitely hits lower income people harder. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: a very expensive, yeah, And I think it's important to

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Speaker 1: point out that we're not just talking about Ireland. Here

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Speaker 1: in the United States, there are places where you have

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Speaker 1: to make a very expensive and very laborious journey to

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Speaker 1: get an abortion, and a pregnant person who lives in

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Speaker 1: rapid city South Dakota, for instance, would have to drive

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Speaker 1: three hundred and eighteen miles to reach Billings, Montana to

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Speaker 1: get an abortion. That was that's the nearest facility that

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Speaker 1: provides abortion services. And so we were talking about it

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Speaker 1: in regards to Ireland, but here in the United States

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Speaker 1: there are places where it is also very inaccessible, and

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Speaker 1: it is also a very expensive journey, particularly for those

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Speaker 1: who don't have access or are low income or otherwise marginalized. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and we also have some of you may have seen

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Speaker 1: in the news because it's kind of been making the

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Speaker 1: news a lot lately, that we have hospitals that are

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Speaker 1: run by Catholicism, like Catholic hospitals, but they're not outwardly

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Speaker 1: there's sort of no signage to saying that. And and

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Speaker 1: a lot of times if you're an emergency situation, and

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Speaker 1: here we're talking particularly about if you're pregnant and you're

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Speaker 1: taken in an ambulance of the nearest hospital, you might

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Speaker 1: not know and then you get there and they will

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Speaker 1: not allow you have an abortion if you're like having

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Speaker 1: a miscarriage or any thing like that. And it's it's

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Speaker 1: led to I think some serious health problems and I

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Speaker 1: believe death as well. Yeah, according to rewire. New reporting

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Speaker 1: that just came out literally an hour ago. About one

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Speaker 1: in six women in the United States name a Catholic

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Speaker 1: facility as their go to hospital for reproductive healthcare, but

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Speaker 1: more than a third of these women are unaware that

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Speaker 1: their hospital is Catholic, according to a survey reviewing an

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Speaker 1: information gap about Catholic hospitals. And so you're right. So

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Speaker 1: I want to make sure it's clear that we all

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Speaker 1: have a long way to go on this issue, and

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Speaker 1: that Ireland, the United States, this is stuff that's happening

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Speaker 1: that we're all sort of dealing with. We have to

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Speaker 1: get better because people's lives are on the line. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: In British Vogue, Irish journalist Lynn i'nwright imagined what could

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Speaker 1: have happened to her if her unwanted pregnancy had happened

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Speaker 1: back home in Ireland instead of in London. She writes,

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Speaker 1: perhaps I would have been one of them, making the

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Speaker 1: same surreptitious arrangements, booking days off work, telling the necessary

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Speaker 1: FIBs to employers and family, boarding a cheap Ryan Air

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Speaker 1: flight at six am as if going on holiday, and

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Speaker 1: the hundreds of pounds necessary to pay a private clinic

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Speaker 1: in Liverpool or London later my abortion fund not stretching

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Speaker 1: to a hotel room I would bleed and sweat, and

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Speaker 1: a cheap hostel many many miles from home. And I

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Speaker 1: think she really captures what this situation looked like for

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Speaker 1: so many Irish women. And those are the lucky ones,

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Speaker 1: the ones who could afford to make that journey. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's already a difficult situation to be in, and

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Speaker 1: then to be in the hotel, probably by yourself after

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Speaker 1: in pain. Miserable just expounds on how difficult it already is.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't need to be that miserable. It shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: that miserable. If there are things we can do to improve,

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Speaker 1: it should If you listen to the episode of the

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Speaker 1: Unladylike podcast, their first episode is about paying for abortions

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Speaker 1: and one of the women they talked to in the episode,

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Speaker 1: she basically had like the nicest abortion you know ever

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Speaker 1: was in a private facility and you know, there was

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Speaker 1: no protesters outside. It was a very you know, she

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Speaker 1: went into a pretty nondescript office. And for every smooth

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Speaker 1: abortion out there that goes well, and you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just go to a place and you have an appointment

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Speaker 1: and it's fine, it's done, you pay for it done.

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Speaker 1: There are people out there who have the worst experience

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Speaker 1: where it's you know, they have to scramble to find

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Speaker 1: money and they you know, it's a medical procedure and

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Speaker 1: it should be a smooth experience for everyone. Everyone deserves

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Speaker 1: to have their medical carapy something that is smooth, because

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Speaker 1: if you need medical services, are already probably stressed out enough.

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Speaker 1: And just like any other medical service, if it's within

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Speaker 1: our power to make it smooth for the people who

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Speaker 1: are undergoing it, we should be. It should be smooth

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Speaker 1: for everybody absolutely, Like I remember listening to that on

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Speaker 1: a lady like episode of thinking, like anybody who has

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Speaker 1: to get an abortion, I want them to have an

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Speaker 1: experience like that where it's not terrible. Yeah. And going

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Speaker 1: back to the Catholic Church, they have a lot to

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Speaker 1: do with this this situation in Ireland from Rewire, the

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church has been deeply intertwined with the Irish state

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Speaker 1: from its founding when in separating the English colonial control,

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Speaker 1: Ireland sought a national identity that was different, celebrating the

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Speaker 1: Catholicism that had been marginalized under British rule. Today, though

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Speaker 1: its influence has diminished, it controls primary schools and hospitals

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Speaker 1: across the country, and though it has played a smaller

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Speaker 1: role in the repeal campaign, Healy wrote, behind the scenes,

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Speaker 1: the Church are backing the know in a major way.

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Speaker 1: But the church's reputation was damaged by revelations around the

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Speaker 1: Magdalene Laundries, state funded church run institutions where girls were

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Speaker 1: locked away and put to unpaid labor for a range

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Speaker 1: of sins that often include sexual behavior and unwed pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: That reputation was further hurt by the discovery in twenty

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Speaker 1: seventeen of a mass grave of children at the Mother

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Speaker 1: and Baby Home at Tuam, where unwed mothers had given birth. Yikes,

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Speaker 1: that's horrifying. But I think it also really goes to

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Speaker 1: underscore how tight of a hold the Catholic Church has

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Speaker 1: on Ireland culturally, politically all of that. Those sentiments run

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Speaker 1: so deep that is really seems to dictate how folks

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Speaker 1: feel about this issue for a very long time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this about brings us to another flashpoint in this debate.

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Speaker 1: But first we're gonna take a quick break for word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Uh m hm, and we're back. Thank

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Speaker 1: you sponsor. So in two thousand and twelve we come

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Speaker 1: to another kind of touched on a big event in

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Speaker 1: this debate, and that is with m Savitza Pravine hal

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Speaker 1: A Peta Ar Savita was a dentist who was born

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Speaker 1: in India and she moved to Ireland in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight and she settled in Galaway with her husband Pravine.

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Speaker 1: On October one, two thousand and twelve, she went to

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Speaker 1: University Hospital, Galway after complaining of back pain and eventually

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Speaker 1: suffered a miscarriage at seventeen weeks. Her miscarriage went on

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Speaker 1: for days, but saying they were bound by Irish abortion law,

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Speaker 1: hospital staff would not provide any medical aide to speed.

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Speaker 1: At the end of her pregnancy, a midwife manager told

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Speaker 1: her she couldn't terminate her pregnancy quote because Ireland it's

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Speaker 1: a Catholic country. Yeah, And according to the coroner, the

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Speaker 1: words quote went around the world and I would agree

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Speaker 1: with that. Yeah. This sort of became a galvanizing moment,

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Speaker 1: particularly that comment that the midwife manager made that Ireland

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Speaker 1: is a Catholic country. It's interesting they've identified the woman

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Speaker 1: who said that, and she admits saying and she feels

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Speaker 1: bad about saying it, But I don't think that she

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Speaker 1: knew that her comments would become this flashpoint for getting

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Speaker 1: it would ultimately spark this kind of massive change. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would bet she was quite surprised that it took off.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure to her it was probably like just fat

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Speaker 1: kind of Yeah, that's what she says. They interviewed her

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Speaker 1: and she said that she was just trying to explain,

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Speaker 1: you know, the why of this abortion law. And she

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Speaker 1: she's right that that was that was the case. But

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Speaker 1: using that as a basically as the explanation for why

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Speaker 1: someone is going to die is just so deeply, deeply,

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Speaker 1: deeply upsetting. Another thing to note about sevida situation is

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Speaker 1: that doctors told her that her miscarriage was inevitable and

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Speaker 1: she was still denied an abortion. There was no saving

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Speaker 1: this pregnancy, she was going to lose that pregnancy irregardless,

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Speaker 1: and they still let her die. Yeah, which I find,

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Speaker 1: I mean hard for me to think of a way

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Speaker 1: to defend that, and especially like, well, we're just a

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Speaker 1: Catholic country, like I suppose that goes to show how

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Speaker 1: acceptable we find or at least in some religions, were

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Speaker 1: able to justify the death of the woman rather than

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Speaker 1: provide them this service that has been deemed immoral. Right.

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Speaker 1: And she died a painful, agonizing long and probably emotionally,

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Speaker 1: I mean she she died at really really unimaginably cruel

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Speaker 1: death on all fronts, emotionally, mentally, physically, on all fronts.

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Speaker 1: Her death was unimaginably cruel. Yeah. A report by the

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Speaker 1: Health Service Executive found later that there had been quote

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Speaker 1: an over emphasis by hospital staff on the welfare of

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Speaker 1: Mrs Hall, a pan of ours unviable fetus, and under

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Speaker 1: emphasis on her deteriorating health and they could it sound

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Speaker 1: like they could have saved her. Yeah, And if you know,

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Speaker 1: if the miscarriage is inevitable, what are you doing right, Like, like,

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Speaker 1: who are you helping no one? You're killing someone. You're

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Speaker 1: killing someone, yeah, and you're making them die a agonizing death.

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Speaker 1: Like it just just so awful, It just just so awful.

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Speaker 1: As awful as this was, her death became a symbol,

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Speaker 1: sparking protests and vigils all across Ireland. Campaigners began urging

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Speaker 1: that folks remember Sevita and calling for chain as to

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Speaker 1: ireland strict abortion laws. Here's Ruth Coppinger, an Irish Solidarity

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Speaker 1: People before Profit politicians, speaking at a rally to remember

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Speaker 1: Cevida friends. We're here today in huge numbers to show

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Speaker 1: usinate said our solidarity with the family on the friends

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Speaker 1: of Sevisa and we want to send a message to

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Speaker 1: her family if you have huge support here in Ireland,

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Speaker 1: absolutely massive support, and that pretty much brings us to

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Speaker 1: where we're at today. You know, her tragic death was

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Speaker 1: really this flashpoint for enough outrage and anger and justified

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Speaker 1: rage to coalesce to get someplace on this issue. I

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Speaker 1: think so many women saw this story and thought that

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Speaker 1: could be me, that could be my kid. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to live in an Ireland where that happens for

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Speaker 1: no reason. Yeah, and so people came together and they

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Speaker 1: made a change, and we're gonna talk more about that,

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Speaker 1: but first we're gonna take one more quick break for

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor m HM, and we're back,

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Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. Yeah. So, last month, Ireland held a

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Speaker 1: vote to repeal the Eighth Amendment. Thousands of Irish immigrants

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Speaker 1: flew from all over the world back to Ireland to vote,

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Speaker 1: including a few smentthy listeners. That's right. Shout out to

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Speaker 1: Instagram user j O Grady who told me that she

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Speaker 1: came all the way from Boston to Ireland to vote yes,

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Speaker 1: so you go. Good for you. And this is the

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Speaker 1: stuff that like warms my organizer heart. People getting together

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Speaker 1: and saying, hey, all of y'all young people who left

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Speaker 1: Ireland for other places, we need you to if you

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Speaker 1: can do it, come back vote. Help be the force

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Speaker 1: that pushes the needle on this issue. Yeah. And they

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Speaker 1: shared their journeys using the hashtag home to Vote, and

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Speaker 1: if you scrolled that hashtag, there were so many brilliant

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Speaker 1: stories of people traveling from far and wide about why

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Speaker 1: they were doing it. Some people said things like oh,

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Speaker 1: I didn't want this could be me. Some people expressed

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Speaker 1: interest in moving back to Ireland one day, but they

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Speaker 1: didn't want to live in Ireland where basic healthcare was

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Speaker 1: just this inaccessible, and really it was. It was quite

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Speaker 1: a beautiful sort of touching thing. Here's the London Irish

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Speaker 1: Abortion Rights campaign video urging young Irish people to come

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Speaker 1: home to vote. If you're an Irish citizen and I've

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Speaker 1: lived in Ireland in the past eighteen months, wherever you

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Speaker 1: are in the world right now, you may be eligible

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Speaker 1: to vote. Three years ago, young Irish people traveled from

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Speaker 1: all over the planet to make Ireland a more equal place.

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Speaker 1: We need you again. On the twenty May. We're getting

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Speaker 1: a once in a generation chance to make Ireland a safer,

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Speaker 1: fair place for women. Let's do it together. Come home

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Speaker 1: to vote yes to repeal the Eighth Amendment. Together Together,

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Speaker 1: Together together, Kayla, together together. Wonderful. Yeah, and it is.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the organizer in me, applods Eat and

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Speaker 1: every one of those those Irish folks who came back

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Speaker 1: to vote, because you know that's no easy feet, you know,

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Speaker 1: flying from Boston, l A, wherever to Ireland to vote,

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Speaker 1: Like not everybody can do that, but I think it again,

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Speaker 1: it goes to underscore this idea that if you have

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Speaker 1: the ability, you have the money, you can get the

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Speaker 1: time off whatever to make that trip you It's important.

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Speaker 1: And I remember seeing someone sign when I was looking

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Speaker 1: through the hashtag. The sign said, I'm making this journey

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Speaker 1: so the women who can't don't have to, So they

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Speaker 1: don't want to get on that boat and they don't

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Speaker 1: want to scrape together that money or stay in that

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Speaker 1: hostels like I can, I can make this journey so

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Speaker 1: that other women don't have to. Yeah, and um some

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Speaker 1: of the women are um assuming women. Some of the

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Speaker 1: people returned home. They or flights paid for by generous

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Speaker 1: strangers in the Abroad for Yes Facebook group with over

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Speaker 1: three thousand, eight hundred members willing to sponsor flights, which

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Speaker 1: is also very lovely. It is lovely, you know in

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Speaker 1: that expression, feminism isn't something you are, it's something that

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Speaker 1: you do. That's That's what this is to me in

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Speaker 1: a kind of way. It's putting your money where your

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Speaker 1: mouth is and doing that thing. Whether it's paying for

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Speaker 1: somebody else's flight because you can't vote in Ireland, or

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Speaker 1: it's it's righting together the money and taking the time

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Speaker 1: off work and going home to Ireland to vote. I

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Speaker 1: think it's just it's just really powerful. It's really something.

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Speaker 1: Sevida's parents made a video before the vote urging Irish

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Speaker 1: voters to vote yes and remember his daughter, and after

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Speaker 1: the vote he thanked the people of Ireland for really

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Speaker 1: coming out in droves and supporting the tragic loss of

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Speaker 1: his daughter, and I'm keeping that in mind at the polls.

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Speaker 1: He said he was quote very happy at the result

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Speaker 1: of Ireland's referendum. We've got justice for Sevita and what

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Speaker 1: happened to her will not happen to any other family.

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Speaker 1: Right now, I have no words to express my gratitude

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Speaker 1: to the people of Ireland at this historic moment. In

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Speaker 1: many Irish people similarly went home to vote to pass

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Speaker 1: marriage equality, and you know, while pushes like home to

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Speaker 1: vote and urging folks to come home and make their

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Speaker 1: voices heard if they can are obviously awesome. Connor O'Neil,

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Speaker 1: the co founder of We're Coming Back, a campaign for

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Speaker 1: emigrant voting rights, points out at The Irish Times that

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Speaker 1: Irish citizens shouldn't actually have to do this. They shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to go all the way back to Ireland just

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Speaker 1: to make their voice heard. He writes, citizens shouldn't need

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Speaker 1: to do this. It's expensive, exclusionary, and for every incredible

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Speaker 1: home to voter, someone couldn't travel. Most countries recognize this,

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Speaker 1: but Ireland remains one of the few democracies with no

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Speaker 1: facility for overseas voting, a legacy of our high rates

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Speaker 1: of emigration and the failure of successive governments to put

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Speaker 1: an effective system in place. Our rules are some of

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Speaker 1: the most restrictive in the world. No postal facility exists,

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Speaker 1: and under the Electoral Acts, returning to vote beyond a

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Speaker 1: meager eighteen months abroad is a crime punishable up to

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Speaker 1: two years imprisonment. Many voters vote have known this on

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Speaker 1: a three year working visa. Surely the ballots waiting at

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Speaker 1: home don't come with criminal charges. Given the landslide result,

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Speaker 1: even the wildest estimates of how many returned couldn't have

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Speaker 1: impacted the outcome. But the absurd contradiction remains. We cheer

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Speaker 1: these voters home, but our laws treat them as criminals. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it should not be that difficult as a citizen to

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Speaker 1: vote in your countries and things impacting your country in

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Speaker 1: a country that you have citizenship in. But nonetheless yea,

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Speaker 1: the campaign was successful. Free wire News quotes one longtime campaigner,

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Speaker 1: zy Kankazi. One of the things in this campaign is

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Speaker 1: that women have talked about that. Women have kept that

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Speaker 1: silent for years and have talked to their friends and

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Speaker 1: family about that and about why the law needs to change.

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Speaker 1: This whole silent underground campaign that is going on with

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Speaker 1: women who are talking about their personal experiences under the

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Speaker 1: law and not just of abortion, because the Eighth Amendment

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Speaker 1: also affects the care of women in every pregnancy. Absolutely correct.

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Speaker 1: Something I love about Izzy kamakazees comments here is that

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Speaker 1: they really help us understand that the Eighth Amendment was

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Speaker 1: obviously about access to abortion, but also even if you

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Speaker 1: are someone who is carrying a pregnancy to term, you

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Speaker 1: are so impacted by this legislation. It's not just for

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Speaker 1: people who are seeking abortions or to terminate a pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: Take for instance, the case of Mother B. In Mother

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Speaker 1: B wanted to give worth vaginally, but she was shocked

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Speaker 1: when the Health Service Executive or the h s E,

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Speaker 1: applied to the High Court to force her to have

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Speaker 1: a cesarean section against her will to vindicate the right

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Speaker 1: to life of her unborn child. They sought permission to

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Speaker 1: keep Mother B from leaving the hospital and to enlist

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Speaker 1: police to arrest her if she did. The fetus was

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Speaker 1: given its own attorney. There was a court injunction and

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Speaker 1: ultimately the court allowed her to give worth vaginally. But

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Speaker 1: this just goes to show this legislation is obviously about abortion,

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Speaker 1: but anybody who wants the reproductive rights respected, whether it

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Speaker 1: is the right to carry your pregnancy to term the

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Speaker 1: way that you want, or the right to not do so.

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Speaker 1: Anybody along that spectrum has a steak in this conversation. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and ultimately the yes vote did win violence side of

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Speaker 1: sixty six point four percent of voters voting to repeal

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Speaker 1: the amendments. So it looks like a lot of women

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Speaker 1: or I keep the saving women, but this is an

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Speaker 1: issue that impacts everybody. Yeah, and I mean women aren't

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Speaker 1: the only folks who get pregnant. We need to say that,

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Speaker 1: you know, anybody with a uterus, anybody with a steak

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Speaker 1: and health care and reproductive rights, they understood what you

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Speaker 1: were saying, Bridget that it is not just a portion.

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Speaker 1: This impacts so much, so much more. And I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: very very happy that it was the eighth was repealed.

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Speaker 1: I am too. So you might be asking what happens now, Well,

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Speaker 1: in the short term, nothing, nothing will change immediately, According

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Speaker 1: to Wendy Lyon, a lawyer and pro choice organizer based

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Speaker 1: in Ireland, because the anti choice law is still on

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Speaker 1: the books, we're pretty much guaranteed that there's gonna be

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Speaker 1: some attempt to challenge it. They've done this with pretty

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Speaker 1: much every referendum that has advocated a liberal agenda. As

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Speaker 1: she says, they failed every time, but they will try

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Speaker 1: it again. And Dublin City Councilor Ellis Ryan points out

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Speaker 1: that another important aspect of this conversation going forward is

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Speaker 1: how abortion access will be handled in Ireland. It is

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Speaker 1: not enough for it to be legal, It also has

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Speaker 1: to be accessible and really the only way that you

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Speaker 1: can do that is through a public health service. That

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Speaker 1: is going to be the next battle for socialist campaigners

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Speaker 1: pro choice campaigners is how can we ensure that this

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Speaker 1: is not yet another service that is outsourced to a

431
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: private company that doesn't have women's best interests at heart.

432
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: And I think that really is so true that it's

433
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: not enough for this to just be legal, it has

434
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: to also be accessible, right otherwise what's the point? Yeah, exactly,

435
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: And going back to the US for a second. Abortion

436
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: access here remains under attack and campaigners are looking to

437
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: Ireland as a beacon of light. In Rhode Island, campaigners

438
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: are pushing for the Reprojective Healthcare Act the r h

439
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: A and pointing to Ireland's recent landslide vote to legalize

440
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: abortion care as an example to follow. So this is

441
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: having an impact outside of Ireland as well. That's always

442
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 1: kind of a kind of comforting reminder. Yeah, we're this

443
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: is global, We're all in this together. This is this

444
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: is a global fight. In Rhode Island right now, if

445
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade were overturned, which I know that to

446
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: some of you that might sound unthinkable, but anti choice

447
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: politicians are waging attacks on it every day in so

448
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: many different ways. If it were overturned in Rhode Island,

449
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 1: abortion will be illegal unless the Reproductive Healthcare Act, which

450
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 1: right now is stuck on committee, was passed. The pro

451
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: choice legislation would codify Roe v. Wade protections into state law.

452
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: And I think why Rhode Island is looking to Ireland,

453
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: it's because Rhode Island is the most heavily Catholic state

454
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: in the United States, and so a lot of similarly

455
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: to Ireland might think, oh, our state is just so

456
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: culturally and politically gripped by the Catholic Church that this

457
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: thing will never pass. But Ireland shows us that that's

458
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: not necessarily true. Right. I did not know that about

459
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: Rhode Islands. Hillary Levy Friedman, president of the Rhode Island

460
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: chapter of the National Organization for Women, said the student

461
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: is looking towards Ireland as a model that heavily Catholic

462
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: cultures can still move the needle on reproductive rights. Quote.

463
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: One of the biggest issues raised in opposition to the

464
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: Reproductive Health Care Act in Rhode Island is that this

465
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: is the most Catholic state in America. That said, Ireland,

466
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: a nation founded on the basis of Catholicism, has just

467
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: made abortion legal, so clearly it can be done. It

468
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: can be done. It was done. Yes, y'all did it.

469
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: And again it makes me so sad that it took

470
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: a tragedy of someone dying and needless and needless and painful,

471
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: unacceptable death to get where we are. But I'm just

472
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: so happy that voters in Ireland remembered Cevita. Yes and

473
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: um virget and I were in the studio when they

474
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: that news. We got the news about it. We were

475
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: very excited. I was checking checking my phone every five minutes.

476
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: I had a feeling it was going to pay. I

477
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: had a feeling it was going to pass by a landslide.

478
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: I did not express those feelings. I learned from a

479
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: certain election that you probably don't want to get to

480
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: ahead of yourself about verbalizing your thoughts on how an

481
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: election is going to go. But I was pretty confident

482
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: it was going to be a landslide. I didn't want

483
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: to say anything, but it was very confident. Yes, and

484
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: we are happy that that turned out to be the case.

485
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: So that's that's what we have to say. Uh, please

486
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: Irish anyone, any Irish listeners out there, We'd love to

487
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: hear from you, and not just because we love your accents, no,

488
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: because we would be imagining the accent in our heads.

489
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 1: Since generally there is no audio component of mail or

490
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: social media, you can do an attachment. Yes, sink big Annie.

491
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm still stuck in my ways of text and behind

492
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: the times and the times. But speaking of this brings

493
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: us to listener mail. Our first letter letter is from Renee. Hey, ladies,

494
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: I love your show and recently listened to the Action

495
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: Figures episode followed by the gender reveal episode, and I

496
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 1: thought I would write in I'm thirty two and identify

497
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: myself proudly as a nerd. I think that has made

498
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: me seek out the clothes I are my daughter Jimma

499
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: want no matter the department label. But it's very frustrating

500
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: that not only do girls not always get the cool,

501
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: nerdy things we love, but the sizes are so different

502
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: in each department. I recently went through her clothes and everything,

503
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: and a five T from the girl's department was too small,

504
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: both short and tight, but her stuff from the boy

505
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: section still had room to grow. I also have issues

506
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: about how a lot of kids clothing lines set shualized

507
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: girls from birth with tighter, shorter clothes, even bikinis for infants.

508
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: Not only is that disgusting, but not every child is

509
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: built alike. So the sorts you think are okay length

510
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: on your fin athletic toddler make my thicker built big

511
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: booty one look not great to put it nicely from birth,

512
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: I've just hearned space science and several fandoms of clothing.

513
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,719
Speaker 1: If I saw something I liked, we bought it. If

514
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: she wanted a Star Wars shirt like Daddy, I found

515
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: her one Jim and will be four on Saturday, and

516
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: she has been telling us for over a years she

517
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: wants to be an astronaut when she goes up. I

518
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: see a definite connection and the clothes that she wears

519
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: in her attitude towards what are typically labeled boy She

520
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: also loves fluffy cats and pink, but will argue the

521
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: fact she knows more about why the sun shines with you.

522
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: Raising a girl is so much fun, But we make

523
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: a decided effort in her home to literally encourage her

524
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: to be whatever she wants, not just what society thinks

525
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: she should be. I'm continuing to foster her dreams with toys.

526
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: For a birthday this year, she'll be getting the new

527
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: American Girl Doll Luciana, who also wants to be an

528
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: astronaut when she grows up. I knew that toys mattered,

529
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: but your show finally reinforced that for me. I've attached

530
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: pictures of the past four years of her outfits below

531
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: because I'm totally biased. She's adorable. She was a rock

532
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: star astronaut for Halloween, so I thought the bowie makeup

533
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: was appropriate. Cute. Happy birthday, Gemma, so cute. I know

534
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: a rock star astronauts going to argue with you about

535
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: the sunshine, ng this is my time. I want to

536
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: make this kid. It sounds like she sounds like a

537
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: rad kid. She do. I mean, she sounds really cool

538
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm happy that she has such an awesome mom.

539
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: Yeah yea. Our next email is from Quentin. Quentin writes,

540
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: I just wanted to reach out to you both. Following

541
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: the Female Action Figures podcast. I especially identified with the

542
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: missed potential due to marketing across the gender boundary. But

543
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: from the other direction, My family and I are major

544
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: Disney fans, and my personal favorite character is tinker Bell.

545
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: Tinker Bell is awesome by the way. Disney launched the

546
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: Disney Fairies line back into two thousand five with toys, apparel,

547
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: and movies. In this franchise, tinker Bell solved her problems

548
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: through tinkering, which basically means building and engineering. I saw

549
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: her as an early stem role model for young kids,

550
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 1: and especially young girls. As an engineer, I fell in

551
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: love with the character. In the two thousand nine direct

552
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: to home film tinker Bell and the Lost Treasure, she

553
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: built a hot air balloon from a found item and

554
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: even had her own adventuring outfit. They've since phased out

555
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: this line, which I think is a missed opportunity. Every

556
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: visit to the Disney Store or Disney Parks, I'm always

557
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: on the lookout for tinker Bell merchandise. A few years back,

558
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: I did come across a great dark blue hoodie with

559
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: a nice Tinkerball design on the back, and I wore

560
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: the heck out of it, but I've never found anything

561
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: like it. Since everything is strongly marketed at girls and women,

562
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: I guess in their minds, guys can't be fans of

563
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: a character or a Disney princess. As you discussed in

564
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: the podcast, they really seem to be missing an opportunity

565
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: if they just included a few more gender neutral options

566
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: for their characters. This applies not only to making action

567
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: figures for girls, but opening up some of their other

568
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: great characters for guys as well. Quentin, I cannot agree more.

569
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: I really want to see this hoodie. I want to

570
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: see all the tinker Bell items that you've amasked and

571
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: I didn't. It didn't even occur to me that tinker

572
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: Bell was this like mini engineer, fairy tinkering. No, it

573
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: didn't to me either, and I'm so glad to know that.

574
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: But absolutely, like, I'm all for It's okay if you wanna,

575
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: you can play whatever with whatever toys you want. We

576
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: don't have to say there for ex gender or ex gender.

577
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm all about all about toys for everybody

578
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: here here. Yeah, So thank you to both of them

579
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: for writing. Thanks as always to our producers, Dylan Fagan

580
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: and Kathleen Willian. If you would like to write toys,

581
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: you can. Our email is mom Stuff at how Stuff

582
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: works dot com, and you can find is on social

583
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 1: Can't you bridget You Sure can, or on Twitter at

584
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcast and on Instagram at Stuff Mom Never

585
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: told You