1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: The male loneliness epidemic. 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's me. 3 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: I'm so lonely. I just. 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 2: Nobody to talk too. Unfortunately. I want to be wanted, 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: I want to be loved, I want to be appreciated. 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: I want to have nobody to talk to. 7 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 3: Yay, I don't know nobody to come for me. Gay. 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: Why are men so lonely? 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: You don't need to have one hundred people at your 10 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: birthday party. You need three people that you can go 11 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: to when you're in your hardest moments. 12 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 2: Fifteen percent of US men reported having no close friends. 13 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: One of my friends said that one of her biggest 14 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: eggs is seeing a man cry. 15 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: Being vulnerable has been a long term difficulty. 16 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: These days, women seem to want a man who is 17 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: emotionally available, but not emotional. 18 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: Sometimes I just don't feel seen. 19 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: Sometimes you do have to go outside of what you've 20 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: been used to. If you are trying something new with yourself. 21 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: As a man, If you're listening to this right now 22 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 2: and you're feeling lonely, I want you to know. 23 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome back to this week's episode of On 24 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: Purpose with Jay Chetti and Radiy Dvlkia. We have created 25 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: these moments of conversation so that we can share a 26 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: lot of the things that we discuss in our car 27 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: journeys when we're traveling places when we have space and 28 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: time to actually think about what's happening in the world, 29 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: the conversations we're having with friends, and sharing all the 30 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: things that people are finding a little bit difficult, and 31 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: just you know, having open ended, curious conversations based on it. 32 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, we wanted to find a space where we could 33 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: share conversations we're having and whether you're watching this on 34 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: your own, or whether you're watching this with your partner, 35 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: or whether you're watching this with a friend, we just 36 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: wanted to engage in conversations that we think people are having. 37 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 2: They may not know who to go to and where 38 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 2: to turn to, and so we hope that this provides 39 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: a space and an open forum to have those in. 40 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: Today's topic is why are men so lonely? And this 41 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: is based on something that researchers are calling a friendship 42 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 2: recession among men. So, just to set it up, fifteen 43 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: percent of US men reported having no close friends fifteen 44 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 2: percent in twenty twenty one, which is up from three 45 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: percent in nineteen ninety. Only thirteen percent of men have 46 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: ten plus close friends, which is down from thirty three 47 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: percent in nineteen ninety and one in four US men 48 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 2: under thirty five report feeling lonely. One in four men 49 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: under thirty five report feeling lonely, with US men ranking 50 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 2: lonelier than peers in the most developed countries, and loneliness 51 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 2: was declared a national epidemic by US Surgeon General Vivicmorti 52 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three. 53 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: That is honestly really sad though. But who also knew 54 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: that Akon was so right with the songs he was 55 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: singing in the day. What here's a song lonely? 56 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 2: I don't think people going to even remember that you're. 57 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: No. 58 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: But you know justin bieber As a song called lonely 59 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 2: does he Yeah, that's one of my favorite No so good. 60 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: But all that to say that men aren't really speaking 61 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: about it, but we're just not listening, That's what That's 62 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: what That's really what it is. People are somehow talking 63 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: about it, but we're not listening. It's so interesting because 64 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: with men, I noticed that men often travel in groups. 65 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: Like recently, I've been laughing with my cousins because we 66 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: go to the gym and there's these packs of men 67 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: that come in. You know, girls will be alone, they'll 68 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: be doing their own thing, but there are two, three, 69 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: sometimes a pack of six men who are hyping each 70 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: other up in the gym working out. Like I noticed 71 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: that a lot, and but I noticed it so much 72 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: more in sports. And so when I was thinking about it, 73 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: I realized that so many men connect through activities. Women 74 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: connect through We'll go get our nails done together. That's 75 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: a space talk. You can't do much else but talk. 76 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: You go get a coffee. What do you do You 77 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: talk and have a coffee. And I think a lot 78 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: of the way that women spend time together creates space 79 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: for emotional conversations, creates space and time to have that, 80 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: whereas a lot of the time when men meet, they 81 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: go to the pub to watch a game, they'll they'll 82 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: play in activity. It doesn't leave room or space to 83 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: have a conversation except for before like oh did you 84 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: watch that game? And then after it's like, oh, yeah, 85 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go watch the other game. And so I think, 86 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: is that what men's sound like? Yeah, that's what they 87 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: sound I'm just gonna have a point. But I think 88 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: that the way that they spend time together kind of 89 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: reflects what you're talking about. 90 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that. Yeah, I never thought about it like that. 91 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: You can get your nails done more together. 92 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: Okay, you're right that I have to make a concerted 93 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: effort to find time to talk to my friends before 94 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 2: or after we play pickleball or paddle or whatever it may be. 95 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: So you're spot on the way I like to spend 96 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: time with my friends is we play sports together where 97 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 2: outdoors to other we're watching a game together. So I 98 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: have to make an added effort as a man who 99 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: does not feel lonely, I have to make an added 100 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: effort to spend time with my friends. Now I get 101 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: this question a lot because we also both moved and 102 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: so I live in LA. Now we live in LA 103 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: and we were born and raised in London. So all 104 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: my best friends are my friends that know me the 105 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: best know me. Three sixty all live in London, and 106 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 2: one of them just moved to Dubai. And so when 107 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: I tell people that I speak to my best mate 108 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 2: who was my best man at my wedding, three times 109 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: a week, most people are absolutely shocked. Yeah, they're like, 110 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 2: how Now I have to give credit because he also 111 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: picks up. He also makes time. He also makes a 112 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,119 Speaker 2: massive effort. But the reality is that at one point 113 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: I realized that if we were not talking to to 114 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: three times a week, I would feel lonely. Because he 115 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: is my closest friend, he does know me the best, 116 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: he has known me for the last twenty years. Yeah, 117 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: and so for me, that setup has what's allowed me 118 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 2: to not feel lonely because my life is busy. Also, 119 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 2: I think when you get married, naturally on the weeknights, 120 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: I want to spend time with you. Yeah, but we're 121 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: investing in our relationship, and my friends are in relationships 122 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 2: are also investing in their relationship. So if I'm now 123 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: only seeing mates once a week, maybe once every two weeks, 124 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 2: maybe once every month, how are we going to keep 125 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 2: that relationship up? How am I not going to feel 126 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: lonely because I don't have the time to be vulnerable. 127 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: If I'm only seeing you once a month, I may 128 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: not be confident or comfortable enough to open my heart 129 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: be vulnerable. And I think for men in general, being 130 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: vulnerable has been a long term difficulty. 131 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: I think about a lot of the men that I've 132 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: seen and who've had that kind of surface level connection, 133 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: not surface level, but not a place of conversation with 134 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: their friends where they can really speak about their heart. 135 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: I'm actually feeling really like down today, like you would 136 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: not not normally hear a man say that to their friend. 137 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: How can someone who's used to doing these activities with 138 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: their friends, who's used to connecting to them based on 139 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: having a drink or going out and playing sport, how 140 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: do you make that transition? Because I saw this trend 141 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: on TikTok and it was these guys calling, well, you know, 142 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: the good night trend, but then it also turned into 143 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: the one way you call in sake, I'm just calling 144 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: to say good night to you. And then also there 145 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,239 Speaker 1: was a trend saying, oh do you think I should 146 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: get therapy? A guy calling and asking their friends you 147 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: think I should get therapy? And it was really interesting 148 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: because you could tell the guys who don't have that 149 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: connection with their friends and be like, oh, why are 150 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: you being such a loser? Why do you go get 151 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: wow like or say do or saying you know, making 152 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: fun of it versus even believing that it could be true. 153 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: And so how would a guy who's so used to 154 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: having twenty years of this friendship where it's based on 155 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: jokes and laughter and not really talking about what's going on. 156 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: Make that switch, because that can be quite uncomfortable for 157 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people, I imagine. 158 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: I mean that you've raised such a good point and 159 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: I never saw that trend. But that's actually really sad 160 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: for me that even in this day and age, when 161 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: a man has plucked up the courage to say something 162 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: like that, that it's met with that kind of reaction. 163 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: Because you'd hope that there are athletes today who've talked 164 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 2: about their mental health. 165 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: Understand that's okay to that be okay. 166 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: It's time to talk, it's time to change. 167 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 3: You know, you got so much responsibility as athlete to 168 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 3: your team. You know, youve got to play at a 169 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 3: certain level, your teammates counting on. You, got the pressure 170 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 3: for the media. But it's going through something when everybody 171 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 3: you know, things that you can't see, you can't touch. 172 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 2: It is time for sport to accept its responsibility with 173 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 2: this issue. There are athletes and sports and actors and 174 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: musicians male who've spoken about the challenges with their mental 175 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: health on all their platforms. I feel like we're living 176 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 2: at a time with some of the toughest, strongest men 177 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: on the planet talk about these things, and so I 178 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: think we've got to shift the narrative that when you 179 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: say something vulnerable that you're weak, or that in some 180 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: way you're a loser, or in some way that you're 181 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,359 Speaker 2: not strong. But I think as we have these athletes 182 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 2: and superstars talking about their pain, I think there's also 183 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: been a trend online which is of the alpha male, 184 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 2: which is this idea of if you're a high value man, 185 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: you don't talk about your feelings. You just have discipline 186 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: and you break through it. And I always find this 187 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 2: really really interesting because I consider myself to be quite alpha, 188 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 2: and I consider myself to be quite emotionally engaged, and 189 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: so I've always tried to do both, and I don't 190 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: see them as a paradox. I see both as strength. 191 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 2: So I'm disciplined, I enjoy working out, I enjoy competition, 192 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: I love all those things. Yeah you're nodding because you're like, yeah, 193 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 2: I'm extremely competitive. And at the same time, I think 194 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 2: talking about my feelings is really important, emotional vulnerability is 195 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: really important, and and being able to make space for 196 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: my friends and share is really important. So I think 197 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: a part of it is, first of all, accepting within 198 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 2: yourself that it's okay, right. I think even before you 199 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: start looking for people to share it with, do you 200 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: still think it's a weakness. Because if you think it's 201 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: a weakness, then when you share it and someone rejects it, 202 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: you're just going to go and climb into your shell 203 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: even more. But if you think it's a strength and 204 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 2: you believe it's value and you believe it's something you need, 205 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: I actually this is the hardest advice to give, but 206 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 2: it's true. You can have your friends that you play 207 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 2: football with and have bands with and have jokes with, 208 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 2: and if they're not the ones that you can share 209 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: this with, you may have to find a separate group 210 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 2: of friends where you can talk about these things. And 211 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you abandon your old friends. It doesn't 212 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: mean your old friends are bad. It doesn't mean you 213 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: have to leave them. It just means that you may 214 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: have to start creating a community of new men that 215 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: you can have this community with. Yeah, because if you're 216 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: being met with your loser dude, you don't need therapy. 217 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 2: You just need, you know, to get a pint down 218 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 2: the pope. Like, if you're being met with that, then 219 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 2: that's not an easy wall to break down. 220 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: Oh it's not. 221 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 2: And first you should try with your friends. You should 222 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: try with the friends you have, but if you don't, 223 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 2: you are going to have to start constructing a new group. 224 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: I've been seeing these really cool I don't know why 225 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: I'm getting these ads, but these really cool ads that 226 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: not ads. But you know, when there are retreats and 227 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: stuff happening, and there are so many men's retreats that happen. 228 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: Oh ah, yes, and I think, and you know, I 229 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 1: remember recommending this to a friend whose partner was struggling, 230 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: and I was saying, why don't you go on? Why 231 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: don't you meet completely new people who are going somewhere 232 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: for the same reason. If someone's going to a men's retreat, 233 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: that means that they are lacking male friends, they are 234 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: wanting to speak to people who are wanting to open 235 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: their heart, connect heal things from their past, whatever it is. 236 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: But sometimes you do have to go outside of what 237 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: you've been used to if you are trying something new 238 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: with yourself. And I think the other part that I 239 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: was gonna mention that I remembered seeing online was you know, 240 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: they are all these really funny I find them really funny. 241 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I can see how for 242 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: a man who's trying to be more emotional it can 243 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: make you shut down. It's you know, when you have 244 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: to now treat your man like a princess and essentially 245 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: saying that men are being too emotional these days. And 246 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: I think these days women seem to want a man 247 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: who is emotionally available but not emotional. So they want 248 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: someone who's emotionally available, like oh, I need him to 249 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: understand me, and I want him to get where I'm 250 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: coming from, and I want him to be attuned to me. 251 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: But then I don't want him to cry, like I 252 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: don't want I don't want him to do or when 253 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about X, one of my friends said that 254 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: one of her biggest X is seeing a man cry 255 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: or like be emotional. Wow, And I was like, oh wow, 256 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: Like okay, it's so interesting. But I do think whether 257 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: a woman says it or not, there's quite a few 258 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,719 Speaker 1: people who feel that way, where a man crying is 259 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: still seen as being a weeks But I still want 260 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: you to be emotionally available to me. And so I 261 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: think for men seeing stuff like that online, we think 262 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: it's people think it's just funny but I think that 263 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: can be really difficult because it stops you then from 264 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: also being okay with the idea that I should be 265 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: able to cry, be unhappy, show that I'm feeling upset, depressed, 266 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: whatever it is. And so I think a lot of 267 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: what we see online can really play a role in 268 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: how we feel. 269 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 2: And that's what makes it hard for men because they 270 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 2: then think, now, whether that's Sometimes it's so interesting as 271 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 2: well because social media perception is also not reality totally, 272 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: but then we start believing that is, and then men go, God, 273 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 2: I can't share that emotion around her because she's going 274 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: to think I'm weak. But then I'm carrying this load 275 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: and I don't know what to do with. 276 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: It, which then changes me as a partner, as a 277 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: person to connect to other people. 278 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 2: And you would hope you taught me this and I 279 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: loved it when you said it to me years ago. 280 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 2: Which was this idea that and that's why your podcast 281 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: is called a really Good Cry. Was this idea that 282 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 2: crying and laughing are actually just the same, that there 283 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 2: are expressions of an emotion, and when you think something 284 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 2: is when you think something's really funny, you don't have 285 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: to think about laughing like you don't go, oh, that's 286 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: really funny. I'm now going to laugh. You just laugh 287 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 2: because it's funny. You don't have to think about crying 288 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: crying something that happens, when something affects you in your 289 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 2: gut or your heart or your emotion, you just cry. 290 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 2: You don't go on, now I'm going to cry. 291 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: You also don't stop laughter. But people stop tears. 292 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, people say stop crying, stop crying. You never 293 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: say someone stop laughing, stop laughing. Is it would be 294 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 2: a weird thing to say. Yeah, And we say, oh no, no, 295 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: don't cry about that. Don't cry about that. It's okay. 296 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 2: And it's like you wouldn't say don't laugh about that, 297 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: you know, unless you said offensive. This was earlier this year, 298 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: but Kendrick Lamar did a cover for Harpers Bizarre, and 299 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: in that piece he talked about. 300 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: They not like us, they not like us. I'm a 301 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: wrong person. 302 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: That is the right person. Good, all right? So he said, 303 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: j always going to be really impressed by that. He said, 304 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: my tears is all on the internet. So Lamar says, 305 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: in reference to a viral moment where he cried on camera, 306 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: and he goes, and now I look back, and I 307 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: love that moment. I love that that happened because it 308 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: showed me in real time expressing myself and seeing all 309 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: the work that I put forth actually come to life 310 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 2: in that moment. 311 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 3: Wow. 312 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 2: Right, And that's Kendrick Lamar, like, who's you know? One 313 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 2: like I don't know how many Grammys this year and 314 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: performed at the super Bowl And he's saying that, and 315 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: he goes on to say, my pops, he was tough. 316 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 2: He never showed a weakness, and I learned to experience that. 317 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 2: But for what I do, there is certainly no growth 318 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 2: without vulnerability. If I understood the power of vulnerability earlier, 319 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: I could have had more depth and more reach to 320 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: the guys that was around me. 321 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: I don't know whether I'm more shocked at that or 322 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: the fact that you were at Drake concert last week 323 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: and I owe quote Kendrick. 324 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: Lamar, why are you trying to start beef? 325 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm just saying, why are you starting beef? 326 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: And honestly, Kendrick, those are some bars. 327 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 2: Right, It's just it's I'm sharing that because I hope 328 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: it's empowering for men, because you see, you know, a 329 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: conversation Kendrick is like, yeah, rapper, He's having this rap 330 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 2: battle he's got at the super Bowl, you know, all 331 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 2: this stuff, and it's like, but this is what he's 332 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 2: saying about himself and his life. And he's talking about 333 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: how his dad was tough, his dad never showed any 334 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: weakness and he learned that. But he's actually saying, I 335 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: wish I learned the power of vulnerability earlier. And so 336 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 2: I'm like, that's coming from you know. 337 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: It's really difficult for people who you know, just thinking 338 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: about him as a rapper, but it's I guess if 339 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: someone who's a rapper and in that scene and in 340 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: that environment can do something like that, it gives hope 341 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: to people who may be in an environment like we 342 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: were talking about before that find it difficult to break 343 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: out of that same cycle of spending time with people. 344 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: But I do think that the community is the key 345 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: fact to feeling like you can open up, and I 346 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: think building community is one of the hardest things that 347 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: people find. And that's why I think loneliness, especially in men, 348 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: if they're not if they're not in a partnership, that 349 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: also forces them to come together with couples and meet 350 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: other men it's like where do people meet other people? 351 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what I think. But I think the 352 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 2: other challenges for men is that I think women like 353 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 2: to gather in groups, but sometimes men have better conversations 354 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: one to one. I was at dinner last night with 355 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: a guy that someone that I became friends with early on. 356 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: We're part of a meditation group that I was teaching. 357 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: I bumped into randomly at a grocery store once. We 358 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 2: spent three hours that evening together. 359 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 3: Oh wow. 360 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, we both have crazy travel schedules. We don't see 361 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: each other often, but we happen to be in London. 362 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 2: He's leaving today and we made time to go to 363 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 2: dinner together and I'm not we had We both had 364 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 2: the best time. It's so nice and we've probably spent 365 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 2: three hours talking. It was full on, open conversation, like 366 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 2: we dove in deep in thirty minutes and we both 367 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 2: walked away going we need to do that more. And 368 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 2: I feel like that, like when I'm with a man 369 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: one on one and we're at the same frequency, I 370 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: can lock in. Actually, when I'm in group environments, I 371 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 2: really struggle because you're trying to create a cohesive environment, 372 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 2: but there may be two guys over there who just 373 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 2: want to talk about the football. Yeah, there may be 374 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 2: another two guys over there who just want to talk 375 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: about whatever they you know, whatever's happening at work or 376 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: whatever it is. And then there's a couple of you 377 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 2: that actually want to go deeper, but you can't because 378 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: you can't direct what eight people are doing. 379 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: It throws off the frequency. 380 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, whereas I feel like women will all talk about 381 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: one subject together, whereas I think a lot of men 382 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 2: I know personally that I feel building one to one 383 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: friendships is the space where I get to do that. 384 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: And it was interesting because this was talking about emotional 385 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 2: conditioning and how girls and boys start out on the 386 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 2: same trajectory of prioritizing friendships, but boys feel pressure to 387 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 2: give up their same sex friendships because it feels girly. 388 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: Oh So that idea of like hanging out together and 389 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 2: us talking about our feelings boys are conditioned to feel 390 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 2: that that's a girly thing to do what you. 391 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: Felt with that guy is called the bromance. 392 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 2: One thing I learned as well was I needed I 393 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: needed friends in my industry because they also have a 394 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 2: shorthand for how I feel and That's how he felt too. 395 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 2: It's like having friends that are in a similar industry. 396 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: You already have something in common, you already have an understanding. 397 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: But you know, I think women feel that way too. 398 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: I've been speaking about a friend that I've made recently 399 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: who feels I feel like I've known for so long. 400 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: But when you feel that connection to a friend, when 401 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: you feel understood by them, when you feel like you 402 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: can share a lot of yourself that you can't normally 403 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: with other people, it really is. I think friendships are 404 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: so close to the feelings of romantic relationships. And I 405 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: don't mean that in a weird way, but it really is. 406 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: It sparks the same excitement and because you feel understood. 407 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: And I remember you saying this, I think on my 408 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: podcast where you said not everyone is supposed to understand you, 409 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: and love is understanding and love is also so special 410 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: that you don't feel it with so many people. So, yes, 411 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: you feel in a romantic partnership, but how beautiful if 412 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: you can actually feel it with friendships too. And I 413 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: think women are feeling lonely as well. I think finding community, Yeah, 414 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: I think finding community for women is so difficult because 415 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: in women you also have this aspect of unfortunately, where 416 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: gossip is a big part of connection, and I think 417 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: that makes a lot of women feel insecure in friendships 418 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: because gossip ends up being a big part of it. 419 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 2: Now you feel like if you say something to someone, 420 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: they're going to tell someone else in the group, and 421 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 2: that trust being broken makes it uncomfortable to actually vulnerable. 422 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I think that's a big part 423 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: of female friendship unfortunately, especially what I grew up with. 424 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: And I think this one to one connection what you said, 425 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: is very important because even for women, finding that one 426 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: to one connection where you feel you can confide in 427 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: this person. I think for women a big thing is 428 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: trust that can I trust what I'm telling this girl, 429 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: She's not judging me, She's not going to share it 430 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: with anybody else. I think that something that's quite rare. 431 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting hearing about it from that perspective. 432 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: I've found the one to one thing to be the 433 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: solver for this. I've recommended it so many of my 434 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 2: male friends, and I've said, guys, we always hang out 435 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: in big groups. 436 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 1: I used to be a pack person. Yeah, No, I 437 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: mean I've always loved hanging out in big groups. And 438 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: I've recently started spending individual time with someone that I 439 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: really want to spend individual time with, and it makes 440 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: such a difference. 441 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's I think it's also like, 442 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,239 Speaker 2: you have to find people who want to do this, 443 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 2: So not every person I go out to dinner with, 444 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: like yesterday is somewhere where I walk away going, oh, 445 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 2: we could do this anytime, because maybe the conversation stays 446 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 2: surface level, so there is a bit of frequency matching. 447 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: You have to assess the situation. 448 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I don't think, and I also don't think 449 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 2: every friend of yours to be a real friend has 450 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 2: to have a deep conversation with. There are friends that 451 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 2: I'm happy to call up and be like, did you 452 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: see what Manchester United just did? Like I want to 453 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 2: have that relationship with them, and I would love if 454 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: that can also go to how are you feeling today? 455 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 2: But not every relationship has to do that, And so 456 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 2: sometimes I also feel we put too much pressure on 457 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 2: everyone in our life to be everything. 458 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: What do you think of some good questions? And then 459 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: people could ask themselves, like men, what are some good 460 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: questions that men could ask themselves to understand am I 461 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: feeling like? Am I feeling like I don't have a 462 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: good connection with people, but then also questions that they 463 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: can maybe open up this idea of vulnerability with their 464 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: friends with that doesn't feel too scary or too intense. 465 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 2: We all want to feel better, to have more energy 466 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,959 Speaker 2: and more focus throughout the day. 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I think men that are lonely is 488 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 2: do you have So if a man wants to know 489 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 2: whether he's lonely or not, do you have three friends 490 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: that you could call at three am and share something 491 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: that you're struggling with? 492 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: Even one friend? 493 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 2: Even one friend? Yeah, that that's something I would look at. 494 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 2: And then I would also ask, for a man, do 495 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 2: you have one friend that you could call to share 496 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 2: your biggest win with? Because sometimes that can be harder. Yes, 497 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: because sharing your pain is hard, But sharing your success 498 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 2: is harder because it can come across as bravado, arrogance, yes, etcetera. 499 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 2: And so you may feel you have to play your 500 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 2: success down. And so I think that's what I would 501 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,959 Speaker 2: look at. So that helps you figure out whether you're 502 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: lonely or not. And then it's like, do you feel 503 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 2: you have someone in your life who doesn't judge you 504 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 2: and gives you the space to be all of yourself? 505 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 2: And that's what you said. Women need that too. We 506 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: all want a space in our life where we feel 507 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: seen and not judged. Yes, actually you say this, This 508 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: is really interesting. This guy came up to me. He 509 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 2: worked at the restaurant that I went to last night, 510 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: and he came up to me afterwards when I was leaving, 511 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 2: and he said, hey, I listen to the podcast. Really 512 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 2: love what you're doing. Me and my wife love what 513 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 2: you and your wife are doing. And he said, but 514 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 2: sometimes I just don't feel seen. 515 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 3: Oh. 516 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: Interesting, And he said, sometimes I feel only successful people 517 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 2: feel seen, and I'm still trying to become successful and 518 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: I'm not there yet. And I said to him, I said, actually, 519 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 2: success for people also don't feel seen because they feel 520 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 2: seen through a particular lens, Whereas the most seen I 521 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: feel is when I'm with my wife or with a 522 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 2: deep old friend that I know, and they see all 523 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 2: of me. And I was like, you're going to feel 524 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: more seen if you spend time with people deeply and 525 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 2: individually than you are. If you have a global brand. 526 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: If you have lots of eyes on you, you have. 527 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 2: Lots of eyes. 528 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: You're seen. 529 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you feel seen. It's like you have views, 530 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: but you don't feel seen. And because people are ultimately 531 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: catching you for thirty seconds and making a judgment on you. Yes, 532 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 2: and so anyway, I know I got off on a tangent, 533 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 2: but no. 534 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: But that's really that's such a good point. I think. 535 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: You know, even when you're younger, you think you need 536 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 1: more friends and you have to have multiple people that 537 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: you can do different things with. But as you get older, 538 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: you realize that it's not necessarily about having how many 539 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: people you can invite to your birthday. I was planning 540 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: my birthday recently, and I think I have like eight 541 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: friends who I can call here maybe and I don't 542 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: even know what all of them are going to end 543 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: up coming. And at that time, it maybe realize how 544 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: how thankful I am for just those eight friends. It 545 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,239 Speaker 1: wasn't oh, I've got twenty family members coming and like 546 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 1: eight friends coming. It was, oh, wow, I've got eight 547 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: friends that are here that I want to spend time with. 548 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: And then I was trying to collect other people and 549 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: add people to it. That I was like, do I 550 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: really need these people here? Or am I trying to 551 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: collect numbers to feel like I've got more friends unnecessarily? 552 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: And so I think the views versus being seen is 553 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: a really important part of when you're thinking about friendships, 554 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: because you don't need to have one hundred people at 555 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: your birthday party. You need three people that you can 556 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: go to when you're in your hardest moments, when you 557 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: feel like you've done something that you need to talk 558 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: about that you're judging yourself about, that you feel that 559 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: person's not going to judge you for, And that's so 560 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: much more important than having the thirty friends at your 561 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: birthday party. 562 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 2: I'm so glad you made my tangent relevant. Yeah, it's 563 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: really good. That's really good. But no, that's exactly it. 564 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 2: Like I think, I think a lot of men feel 565 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 2: lonely because we're always in crowds. That's the idea that 566 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 2: you're always in groups, And so that the same idea 567 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 2: that you're saying is that we've always been taught that 568 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 2: more friends means more happiness. Yes, and less friends can 569 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 2: actually equal more happiness if there's more intimacy more depth 570 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 2: to that relationship. Loneliness is linked to depression, anxiety, dementia, diabetes, stroke, 571 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 2: and heart disease, and loneliness can be as harmful as 572 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 2: smoking fifteen cigarettes per day. 573 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, when I worked at the hospital, I would do 574 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: these clinics for elderly and it would be to do 575 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: with them not eating. And it was so interesting the 576 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: underweight people that used to come in in the elderly 577 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: clinics would be like eighty percent men and only twenty 578 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: percent women. Because they talk about how especially for men, 579 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: they're eating habits, the way that they connect to people. 580 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: If they're not having that interaction, and if their partners 581 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: passed away or whatever, they lose the world to do 582 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: much else in their life. And so it was really 583 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: interesting seeing how eighty percent of those people that were 584 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: coming in and our older state were people who were lonely, 585 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: spent most of the time in their home. And even 586 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: when it came to dementia, it says being in a 587 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: community or feeling a sense of purpose in your life, 588 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: whether it is within a community or whether it is 589 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: with your partner, completely changes the trajectory of your The 590 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: progression of dementia and your longevity and the feeling of 591 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: being wanted and needed in this world is so important 592 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: to help keep your mental state alive, And so for 593 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: men especially, I think there's a I've seen so many 594 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,959 Speaker 1: older women who are able to get back up faster 595 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: once their partners died, but I think naturally for a man, 596 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: from what I've seen, it ends up being a lot 597 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: more difficult. So I think that's another reason why having 598 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: friends is so important. Don't think about it for now, 599 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: you have to think about it for your future of 600 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: when you are in a situation where maybe you have 601 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: to be alone or away from your partner. Do I 602 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: have people that I'm going to be able to turn 603 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: to in those moments, because that's what community is supposed 604 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: to be there for. 605 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And and the research shows that men are happier 606 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 2: when they're married, but women are unhappier when they're married. Really, 607 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 2: or at least I think your study says that men 608 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 2: live longer when they're married and women don't live as 609 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: long when they're married, because I've seen them and carry 610 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 2: on more stress. Yeah, and men are actually helped by 611 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:10,719 Speaker 2: the marriage. 612 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: You notice that when people lose their partners at a 613 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: young age or in an old age. Men struggle so 614 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: much more than women do. Women are just used to 615 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: going through the pain. They also are use to most 616 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: of the systems and the things that they have to 617 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: do in the house, like they're able to adapt faster, 618 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: whereas they think for men that's really difficult. 619 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, this one was really interesting and it's kind of 620 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 2: based on what you're saying. 621 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 3: There's this. 622 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 2: Jeffrey Hall, a professor of communication studies at the University 623 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: of Kansas who studies friendships. He previously found it can 624 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 2: take two hundred hours to make a close friend two 625 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: hundred and he talks about how men rely on their 626 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 2: wives to develop the social calendar, so they think they'll 627 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 2: do it and I don't have to do it, and 628 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 2: he says that there's a challenge in their skill set. 629 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 2: So it's the idea that women plan the social calendar 630 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 2: and men just tag along to whatever the women plan, 631 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 2: and so they don't ever think about, well, I need 632 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 2: to find the mayor, I need to do this, I 633 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 2: need to do that. My wife's kind of planned the weekend, 634 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: or just do whatever she says, and so he doesn't 635 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 2: really spend that much time. 636 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: So good at planning your social calendar. Yeah, but you've 637 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: really had to work at it. 638 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've just think you've really. 639 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: Had to make a point of saying, two days a week, 640 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:22,959 Speaker 1: I'm going to meet friends. I'm going to catch up 641 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: with this you've got. I feel like you've got a 642 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: good system in place of these are the friends I 643 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: need to catch up with once a month, I'm going 644 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: to do this with this person. Once a week, I'm 645 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: going to meet this person. And it's good You've you've 646 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: really learned how to create that cycle and system to 647 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: make sure that you do connects. 648 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I like it important to think about 649 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 2: their life, like, think about everything mathematically, and everything becomes simpler. 650 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 2: Right if you make it about you know, how you're feeling, 651 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 2: how you're feeling on that day, it will just it will, 652 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 2: you know. There's so many times like yesterday, before the dinner, 653 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 2: I was so close to canceling because I was a 654 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 2: bit tired. Yeah, so glad I didn't. And that's where 655 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 2: systems help. And so it's like who do you want 656 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 2: to see once a week, who do you want to 657 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: see once a month, who do you want to see 658 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 2: once a quarter, and who do you want to see 659 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 2: once a year. If you have a list of the 660 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 2: people in those buckets, Yeah, it becomes really really simple. 661 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 2: So I'm with you every day whenever we're in the 662 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 2: same country, we're together every day, which is awesome. And 663 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: then but then there's friends. I'm like, okay, I'm going 664 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 2: to see you once or twice a week. I'm going 665 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 2: to see you, and that allows me to simplify my 666 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 2: life and now it's not random. And then I don't 667 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: go three months and go, why haven't I seen that person? Ye, 668 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 2: them like I love seeing them, and it's like, well, no, 669 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 2: just have it in the system. And now I don't 670 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 2: have to feel that way. And so I'm just allowing 671 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 2: myself to be more effective with friendships. And people think 672 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 2: that that might be business like or transactional. Actually that's 673 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 2: what love and respect actually is, where it's like, I 674 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 2: respect you enough, you're in the calendar, I want to 675 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 2: see you every month, and it allows us to deepen 676 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 2: our friendship and then at the end of the year, 677 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 2: we get to think about all the amazing memories we make. 678 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 679 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: I think what we all have to realize is that 680 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 2: friendship is a learned skill and it's not something you're 681 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: born with. And so we almost assume that people should 682 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 2: know how to be a good friend. We assume people 683 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 2: should know how to be a good partner, We assume 684 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 2: someone should know how to be a good parent, And 685 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 2: the reality is all of those skills are learned. And 686 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 2: so for me as a man, if you're listening to 687 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: this right now and you're feeling lonely, I want you 688 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 2: to know that there are other men out there that 689 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 2: feel lonely, which means that you actually have the opportunity 690 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 2: to become community for each other. And that truly starts 691 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 2: with you having the courage to share something vulnerably openly, 692 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 2: honestly and seeing who matches that frequency. And it's as 693 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 2: simple as that is. Not everyone's going to match your frequency. 694 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 2: Someone might joke with you, someone might laugh at you, 695 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 2: someone might just play it off. That's okay, because chances 696 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 2: are'm five to ten years time, they may come back 697 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: to you and say, I'm sorry I did that. I'm 698 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 2: going through something right now, but for now they aren't 699 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: that person. That doesn't mean they're bad, it doesn't mean 700 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 2: you reject them. Just go find the people that you 701 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,479 Speaker 2: want to connect with. How have you seen men in 702 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: your life apart from me struggle or do well in friendships? 703 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 2: What has worked for them and what has not work 704 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 2: for them? 705 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: I think sometimes well, especially in our community, men have 706 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: a lot of family members that they can like socialize with. 707 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: But I have noticed as time goes on, you know, 708 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: I think about my dad and I remember he used 709 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: to have like a huge social life when he was younger, 710 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,479 Speaker 1: and then as he's gotten old and older, that Paul 711 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,240 Speaker 1: has definitely gotten smaller and smaller. But he I randomly 712 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: walk into his office or I'll randomly walk into the 713 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 1: room and he's having a conversation with his best friend, 714 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: my uncle, who he's known since he was at university, 715 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: and they're talking about things, whether it's through their physical 716 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 1: health or they're you know, here and there. But they'll 717 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: still have these once a month catch up conversations. He 718 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: doesn't really see them. They don't go out necessarily, they 719 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: don't go out and have a meal together. But he 720 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: has these two or three people who I know he 721 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: is speaking to. There's like Andreas, there's my uncle, there's 722 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: one other person. I know that he has these people 723 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: that will checking in on him and that he's checking 724 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: in on And so I think friendships also change as 725 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: time goes on. They don't have to look the same way. 726 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: You don't have to be going out. I don't mind 727 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: keep saying the pub. Why don't keep thinking about that's 728 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: a thing. You don't have to keep going out to 729 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: the pub to meet your friends. But you know that 730 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: those people are still available to you. And so I 731 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,479 Speaker 1: think what you were saying is can you make that call? 732 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 1: I know my dad seems like I always wonder, oh, 733 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: it's my dad got friends and he's going out and about, 734 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 1: But actually he's got those people he can call. And 735 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: I think that's something that's built over time university and 736 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: he's in his seventi he's like seventy now, and he's 737 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: kept that connection from that point. He knows every time 738 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: I struggle with anything or he thinks he needs something, 739 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: he calls them and he knows that they've got the 740 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: advice or they've got the ability to help him. And 741 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,479 Speaker 1: I think that has been again, it's a learned skill. 742 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: It's been built, learnt and built over since he was 743 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: twenty years old till seventy. And that takes work. That 744 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: takes the phone calls every week, the checking in every month, 745 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: showing up when something's happened in their life, and so 746 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: I think it takes a lot more effort than just 747 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: this book a tennis court. 748 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thanks for listening. Everyone, drop in the comments, 749 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 2: how you've been creating great friendships, what you're struggling with. 750 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 2: You'll even connect with people in the comment section, which 751 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 2: we'd love to see, and make sure you tag me 752 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok me and Radi on what's resonated 753 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 2: with you, what you're trying, and the great friendships that 754 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 2: come from this. So thank you for listening. Hey everyone, 755 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 2: if you love that conversation, go and check out my 756 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 2: episode with the world's leading therapist Lurie Gottlieb, where she 757 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 2: answers the biggest questions that people ask in therapy when 758 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 2: it comes to love, relationships, heartbreak, and dating. If you're 759 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,919 Speaker 2: trying to figure out that space right now, you won't 760 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 2: want to miss this conversation. 761 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 1: If it's a romantic relationship, hold hands. It's really hard 762 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: to argue. 763 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 2: It actually calms your nervous systems. Just hold hands as 764 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 2: you're having the conversation. 765 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 1: It's so lovely.