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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: What's got a functional sedative? My host of this podcast,

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Speaker 2: This is Behind the Bastards, the podcast hosted by someone

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Speaker 2: with PTSD who has not been sleeping well for the

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Speaker 2: last like six months and finally got on a good sedative.

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Speaker 2: I went out like a fucking zombie last night, and

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Speaker 2: I woke up actually feeling like I slept. So I'm

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Speaker 2: unstoppable today, I'm unconquerable. I've built up at eleven ten am,

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Speaker 2: which is the earliest I've gotten up in months, feeling great.

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Speaker 2: Everybody really feeling good. I can't mix these with alcohol,

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Speaker 2: which is a bummer, unlike Benzo's, which my doctor says

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Speaker 2: are safe to mix with alcohol. No, don't do that.

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Speaker 2: It'll kill you. Killed everybody in the seventies. That's why

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Speaker 2: there's none of those people left.

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Speaker 1: I'm really glad that you've gotten some sleep, mostly because

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Speaker 1: that makes my life a lot easier, but also good

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of not speaking of doing drugs in the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 2: but speaking of being as cool as the nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 2: Our guest this week, Princess Weeks. Princess, you are a YouTuber,

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Speaker 2: a comedian, and you are here today. How are you feeling.

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Speaker 3: I wish I had slept as well as you. Now

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Speaker 3: I know what I need. I'm so high. I'm so high.

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Speaker 3: I am a history nerd. I love this podcast. I

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Speaker 3: want to know who my bastard is so badly.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, we're going to get into it. I

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Speaker 2: do want to ask you one question first about the past,

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Speaker 2: because you know it's been going around this year. I

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Speaker 2: think it was this year that this started the whole, Like,

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Speaker 2: how often do you, as a man think about the

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Speaker 2: Roman Empire? And for most, at least for me and

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Speaker 2: all of my social serve, my male social circle, it's

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Speaker 2: a daily thing. But what I think is a more

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Speaker 2: universal experience, at least among the people that I know

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Speaker 2: and care for, male and female, is how often do

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Speaker 2: you think about getting access to those good height of

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Speaker 2: the seventies kuayludes, Because that's what I don't stop thinking

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Speaker 2: about every day. For me, it's thinking about louds hourly, hourly, hourly, hourly. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's good, Yeah, speaking of quailudes. That was the drug

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Speaker 2: of the fashionable set in the height of Hollywood. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, like grime and shit in the seventies, degeneracy,

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Speaker 2: financial industry, degeneracy. And when I think about degeneracy, when

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Speaker 2: I think about fashion, one thing that comes to mind

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Speaker 2: is the suit, right, the suit and tie the uniform

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Speaker 2: of the finance industry, the uniform of business, of class,

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Speaker 2: of wealth and power in the Western world. And today,

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Speaker 2: this week, we're going to talk about where the suit

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Speaker 2: and tie came from. And we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: where the concept of a celebrity came from. Because the

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Speaker 2: modern suit and tie, our conception of a celebrity, the

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Speaker 2: fashion influencer, everything that's going to become, like the way

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Speaker 2: influencing works on Instagram and TikTok, all of it was

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Speaker 2: created in the seventeen hundreds by one man and his

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Speaker 2: name was bau Brummel. And that's what we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about this week. Princess, have you heard of bo I?

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Speaker 4: Hate him already? I've never heard of bo I was

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Speaker 4: really writing.

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Speaker 3: My brain, But every time we said suit and tyke,

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Speaker 3: I thinking about Justin Timberlake, so like it.

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Speaker 4: Was gonna be either way. We were gonna get him.

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Speaker 1: We all we all have Justin on the brain.

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Speaker 4: This is interesting.

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Speaker 2: I kind of wonder how you're gonna if you're gonna

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Speaker 2: wind up actually hating this guy. But well, we'll move

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Speaker 2: to that after the cold open, because we're done with

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Speaker 2: the cold open.

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Speaker 4: We're going up.

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Speaker 2: We're ready to hit the fucking ground running.

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Speaker 4: We're back.

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Speaker 3: I am so excited. You had me at seventeen hundreds.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And what's weird to me is how of the

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Speaker 2: stuff that, like a lot of times, you can if

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Speaker 2: you we're like, yeah, this is the origin of this

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Speaker 2: very modern thing, and you can be like, well, I

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Speaker 2: can see how it built from there. When it comes

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Speaker 2: to him, everything he's doing as a fashion influencer is

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Speaker 2: exactly the way it works today for people using social media.

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Speaker 2: But he's doing it person to person in very like

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Speaker 2: intriguing ways. He like knows this is the guy who

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Speaker 2: learns how to make shit spread virally, but he's doing

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Speaker 2: it all analog and it's really interesting the way that

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Speaker 2: he like makes this work. But I'm also here's the thing,

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Speaker 2: the admission I'm going to make to you as we

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Speaker 2: come back, is I don't know that he's actually a bastard.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people are convinced that he was. This

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Speaker 2: is gonna be an interesting one for us. I guess

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Speaker 2: I should just get into it. Are you ready for

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Speaker 2: me to start the script? Princess, I'm sorry, so you

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Speaker 2: look great. I am not what you would paul a

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Speaker 2: fashionable man. I am wearing like a discount Chud hoodie

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Speaker 2: that I got from the hunting store.

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Speaker 4: Chut hoodie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's head stuff. Yeah, yeah, everybody loves a good Chud.

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Speaker 1: One of my one of my favorite things about when

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Speaker 1: like Robert and I fly in for like a business

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Speaker 1: meeting or go meet with own for a business meeting,

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Speaker 1: is like, I'll come and I am business Barbie, and

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Speaker 1: then there's Robert in his chut hoodie and it just works.

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Speaker 4: It just really works.

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Speaker 2: He's kind of yeah, I look like someone like I'm

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Speaker 2: confident enough to say this about myself. I look like

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Speaker 2: I'm not. But I look like someone who might pull

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Speaker 2: a gun on you in the parking lot for taking

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Speaker 2: the space for my f two fifty, which I park

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Speaker 2: in four spaces, right Like, that's it. That's the hi

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Speaker 2: I give off. I'm very polite with my parking, but

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Speaker 2: I don't dress well. I did used to, which I

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Speaker 2: think is surprising because I haven't in a long time.

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Speaker 2: Kind of the change for me was back in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: I had a near death experience and I was wearing

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable pants and a belt, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: if I'm going to die, and I am some day

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to die, I'm going to die wearing

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Speaker 2: like sweatpants, like some nice thin Merino blend or something right,

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Speaker 2: And that's all I've worn ever since. So I might

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Speaker 2: be better primed than most people to accept at the

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Speaker 2: inventor of the suit and tie, Bo Brummel could be

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Speaker 2: a bastard. But before we, you know, go further, I

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Speaker 2: need to clear that, like, first off, Bo did not

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Speaker 2: invent He's not a tailor. He doesn't actually like make

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Speaker 2: any of this stuff, So he didn't actually he didn't

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Speaker 2: literally invent the suit and tie, like a bunch of

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Speaker 2: different guys over a long period of time invented the

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Speaker 2: suit and tie iterating, But he is the one who

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Speaker 2: first combined a series of fashion trends in the way

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Speaker 2: that guaranteed the suit and tie would be the result,

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Speaker 2: you know, a couple of generations down the line, right,

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Speaker 2: and he is most It seems like broadly agreed by

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Speaker 2: fashion historians that it's fair to credit him as being

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Speaker 2: the father or at least the spiritual father of the

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Speaker 2: modern Western suit, right, even though he did not literally

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Speaker 2: make it. We'll walk through that whole process, and I

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Speaker 2: think that'll make it more understandable later. So I was

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Speaker 2: excited when I started doing my research on him because

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Speaker 2: I refused to wear a tie. I did just get

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Speaker 2: fitted for a suit for the first time in like

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Speaker 2: a decade, because in my dad's funeral, I looked like

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Speaker 2: shit and my brother looked reasonably nice in a suit,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, actually, kind of feel bad that

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Speaker 2: I look like shit, you know, like my dad wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have cared, like he knows, he knew the kind of

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Speaker 2: trash person that I was. But I'm I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: dress up a little bit more now. That said, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm not inherently sympathetic to a fashion influencer. And I

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Speaker 2: found a couple of articles and I started doing this.

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Speaker 2: That's why I started reading about him that made him

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Speaker 2: sound like a sinister figure. And the first of them

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Speaker 2: was a piece in Esquire that describes him as a boring,

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Speaker 2: uptight villain by Alexandra Rowland, and she makes the case

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Speaker 2: that he killed the era of like elaborate, creative, colorful

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Speaker 2: men's fashion and is kind of responsible for the fact

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Speaker 2: that men men today. That's her argument that men today

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Speaker 2: are scared to express themselves through clothing right lest they

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Speaker 2: feel effeminate. And I'm going to read a quote from

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Speaker 2: her article bo Brummel, who was the beginning of two

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Speaker 2: hundred years of death for men's fashion, and the reason

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Speaker 2: that many straight, white, heterosexual men today feel self conscious

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Speaker 2: about wearing color or textures, or patterns or anything else

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Speaker 2: that makes them stand out from the sea of dull

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Speaker 2: blues and grays. Sure, there have always been flares of counterculture,

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Speaker 2: almost all of which werelied on style appropriated for marginalized communities.

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Speaker 2: But the prevailing baseline, if appropriate and presentable men's wear,

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Speaker 2: the things worn by senators, CEOs and lawyers, has not

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Speaker 2: significantly changed in centuries now. And I think what she's

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Speaker 2: it comes to her overall analysis of like fashion. I

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Speaker 2: don't think that's wrong. I mean, it's obviously like it's

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Speaker 2: a paragraph that's simplifying it a bit, but I think

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Speaker 2: there's an argument to be made there.

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Speaker 3: I think it's interesting because like every year during the

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Speaker 3: met Gala, that's always the conversation is, like the women,

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Speaker 3: whether or not they're on theme or not.

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Speaker 4: That's a whole different conversation. But the women were white.

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Speaker 3: He's extravagant outfits, like really live lavishly, but it feels

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Speaker 3: like post Halloween middle grade. It just becomes like your

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Speaker 3: batman's your black suit, Like, yeah, the batman outfit is

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Speaker 3: the suit and tie of Halloween men's wear. So I'm

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Speaker 3: so intrigued about, like why he decided to be so boring, Like, and.

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Speaker 2: I think this is where I disagree with Alexandra, and

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Speaker 2: I think she's she's being unfair because I think she

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Speaker 2: wanted to find an easy way to think to blame

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Speaker 2: for what is a much more complicated problem, which is

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Speaker 2: men feeling like they'll be considered gay if they express themselves.

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Speaker 2: Because bo was not boring. And I don't actually think

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Speaker 2: it's fair to say that he made fashion boring. I

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Speaker 2: think it's fair to say that because of some of

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Speaker 2: the trends he started, other people made fashion boring. But

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Speaker 2: he was a disruptor of fashion in a way that

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Speaker 2: I think was Actually he deserves credit for being creative

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Speaker 2: in he was an artist in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: And I think that the reason Roland comes down on

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Speaker 2: him so hard and The reason a lot of like

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Speaker 2: pop history writers do is that you're always looking when

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Speaker 2: you do kind of pop internet history, looking for traffic.

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Speaker 2: You're searching for like algorithmic glory.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: You want be able to make a quick case that

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Speaker 2: seems to explain something frustrating about the world. And everyone

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Speaker 2: can get angry at a guy, and sometimes it's easy

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Speaker 2: to do that. Sometimes there's good ways to do that, right.

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Speaker 2: We do that a decent bit around here. But also

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Speaker 2: I think when you do that, you can run into

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Speaker 2: the trap of over extending a few facts about someone

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Speaker 2: and ultimately losing the person's humanity and kind of exaggerating

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Speaker 2: and missing where a lot of the harm actually came from.

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to come down on Alexandra Well. I've

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Speaker 2: done this myself. There's plenty of criticism, you know, for

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Speaker 2: my body of work, but this whole subject is personal

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Speaker 2: to me because I'm not just a guy who dresses

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Speaker 2: like shit because it's comfortable. I'm also a guy. I've

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Speaker 2: dealt with an eating disorder. I've spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: my adult life insecure about my appearance. It took me

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Speaker 2: years to like figure out who I was, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's the case for a lot of men, right,

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Speaker 2: We're no different from anybody else in that regard. And

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Speaker 2: I think that like the way Hollywood, I actually really

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Speaker 2: appreciated Channing Tatum's talked a good amount about like the how,

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Speaker 2: you know, being as gorgeous as he is, but like

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Speaker 2: how many weird body image issues he got because if

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Speaker 2: you were a leading man, you are basically your job

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Speaker 2: is to be professionally a disordered eater, like you're supposed

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Speaker 2: to have mons too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's

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Speaker 2: good that they do say that, right, Like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you can argue there's they contributed to the harm, but

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Speaker 2: I think it's more like in the same way that

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Speaker 2: we all drive cars, right, because we've got to, you know.

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Speaker 2: I think it's it's useful when people come out and

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Speaker 2: acknowledge this stuff. And I think that's kind of how

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Speaker 2: I came in looking at bo right, And I think

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Speaker 2: what I saw in him when I did a deeper

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Speaker 2: dive and read some of the more the actual like

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Speaker 2: not pop history, but like like like professional, rigorous academic

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Speaker 2: history about him, is I saw a man who was

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Speaker 2: not just dealing with his own insecurity, but who was

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Speaker 2: living inside of a vis one of the most viciously

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Speaker 2: evil social systems that ever existed, which is the upper

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Speaker 2: crust of the aristocracy in the early British Empire. It's

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Speaker 2: one of the most hideous and cruel cultures that ever existed.

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Speaker 2: And I think he was a decent man who was

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Speaker 2: desperate to find a way to survive and protect himself,

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Speaker 2: and he kind of did the best that he could.

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Speaker 2: And that's where I come down on bo Actually, I

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Speaker 2: think there's still some a lot of harmful aspects of

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Speaker 2: his legacy, but I think it's a much more interesting

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Speaker 2: story than just like he hated fashion and he made

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Speaker 2: men afraid to dress. Well, right, we'll see how you

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Speaker 2: think when we get through this. Ultimately. I do want

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Speaker 2: to note I think a lot of the conclusions from

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Speaker 2: Alexander's article are still valid. Brommel did inaugurate a sea

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Speaker 2: change in male fashion that is dominant today, and this

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Speaker 2: has had toxic knock on effects. He's also the first

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Speaker 2: modern celebrity. He is a man who his life was

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Speaker 2: very similar to modern professional fashion influencers today in ways

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Speaker 2: that are like so direct it's kind of boggling. But

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I would call him a bastard

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Speaker 2: that said, by talking about his life, we're going to

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Speaker 2: go into the deep sickness at the heart of the

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Speaker 2: British Empire and its culture. So either way, we are

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Speaker 2: going to get behind some bastards. You know, I promise

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Speaker 2: you will fit.

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Speaker 1: The name a seventeen eighteenth centuries British Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was like, this is the regency, this.

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Speaker 4: Is ever were Y. Yeah, baby, let's go if.

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Speaker 2: You want the most. The biggest touchstone culturally for this

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Speaker 2: era is Jane Austen. Jane Austen is a contemporary of Bow.

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Speaker 2: She's born I think two and a half years before him,

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Speaker 2: but they live in London basically during the same time,

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Speaker 2: and she never references him directly. I read a very

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Speaker 2: detailed article by some scholars with the Jane Austen fan club,

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Speaker 2: who I trust to know their shit, who argue like,

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Speaker 2: she didn't reference him directly, but most of the male

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Speaker 2: characters in her novels were either based on him or

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Speaker 2: reactions to him. Not entirely, right, but like, like mister

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Speaker 2: Darcy has a lot of Bow in him, right, So

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Speaker 2: that's an argument that people make.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a Jane Austin scholar, but these Jane Austen.

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Speaker 2: Scholars make that argument. So, George Brian Rubble was born

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Speaker 2: on June seventh, seventeen seventy eight in Downing Street, London.

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Speaker 2: The house he was born and partly raised in was

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Speaker 2: essentially a palace yea Downing Street. So that's like the

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Speaker 2: heart of government.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, say I know that address.

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Speaker 2: He is raised there. I mean they are basically it's

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Speaker 2: a palace for government employees at the highest level of

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Speaker 2: British government. That's where he's raised and he spends most

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Speaker 2: of his childhood. Right, this is where the people who

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Speaker 2: are running the empire live well for very little while

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Speaker 2: they make the empire go. His father is a guy

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Speaker 2: named Billy Billy Brummel, and he is private Secretary to

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Speaker 2: Lord North, the first Lord of the Treasury. So that's

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Speaker 2: a big gig, right, This is the guy who is

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Speaker 2: running the purse for the entire British empire, Lord North,

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Speaker 2: Lord North. Yes, he's a powerful man.

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Speaker 4: Billy is notable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, George's dad, and George is going to become bo.

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Speaker 2: Billy is notable because he's one of a small elite

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Speaker 2: cadre of men who old hide positions in the British state,

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Speaker 2: but are not members of the aristocracy. They are commoners. Right,

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Speaker 2: technically they are commoners, but they are not common You know,

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Speaker 2: their families had been in living memory. They are not

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Speaker 2: of the nobility, but they are extremely wealthy and very privileged,

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Speaker 2: right Billy's.

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Speaker 4: Dad like, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly. You might even look at them as

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Speaker 2: like the cheneye to be honest. So these are the

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Speaker 2: people who they have a lot of money and a

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Speaker 2: lot of power. You know, their dads generally made a

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Speaker 2: lot of money and a lot of power. And then

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Speaker 2: before that the family lineage was a little more common.

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Speaker 2: Billy's dad bose grandpa had made the family fortune because

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Speaker 2: he owned a boarding house. And on paper that makes

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Speaker 2: him sound like he owned a motel. The reality is

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Speaker 2: that he was a pimp, right because of where this

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Speaker 2: is and this is this is reading between the lines,

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Speaker 2: but historians seemed to broadly agree given where the boarding

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Speaker 2: house was located, he made his money providing beds and

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Speaker 2: employing women who stepped out with the men who ran

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Speaker 2: the country. So this is not a tawdry boarding house.

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Speaker 2: This is a guy who and this is not like

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Speaker 2: some street pimp. This is a guy who provides escorts

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Speaker 2: to the most powerful men in the mp too, kings

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Speaker 2: literally to the.

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Speaker 4: King, official mistresses and all those kinds of things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Billy's dad is going to die with

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Speaker 2: an estate worth the modern equivalent of something like fifteen

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Speaker 2: million dollars. Right, So he is not He's not just

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Speaker 2: like running a motel six. You know. This is a

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Speaker 2: man who is doing he's doing some pimping, right, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's quick. It is not easy, no, but you could

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Speaker 2: argue it's necessary someone. He also had a private apartment

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Speaker 2: in Hampton Court, which is a former royal palace. Right,

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Speaker 2: So it's one of those places where it's a fashion,

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Speaker 2: it's you don't. I don't think you pay to live there.

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Speaker 2: I think if you are important and well liked enough,

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Speaker 2: you basically get an invite from the aristocracy, like you

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Speaker 2: can have a subsidized apartment at Hampton Court. Right. So

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Speaker 2: again not a not just a guy running a boarding house, right,

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Speaker 2: this is a man who is powerful. His son, Billy

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Speaker 2: Bo's dad started out as a and a valet. If

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Speaker 2: you're technically common by blood, you a lot of times

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Speaker 2: you're going to work as a valet. That is, you

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Speaker 2: could call it a working class gig, but it's basically

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Speaker 2: this kind of this class of people who do a

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Speaker 2: lot of the administration of the empire, but who aren't

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Speaker 2: nobility themselves. They start out as basically body servants for

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Speaker 2: the aristocracy, and they're part of that job is making connections,

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Speaker 2: becoming liked and trusted, and then eventually as the young

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Speaker 2: man that when you're both nineteen twenty twenty one, you're

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Speaker 2: squiring about to parties, you're holding his hair back as

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Speaker 2: he pukes. When he takes his positions in the empire,

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Speaker 2: he'll give you positions below him, right, because he knows

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Speaker 2: he can trust you. You know, that is how a

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Speaker 2: lot of the actual like business of the empire gets done.

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Speaker 2: Billy does well enough to make himself indispensable to a

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Speaker 2: number of powerful men, including Lord North, his son George

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Speaker 2: the future. Bo is baptized on July second in the

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Speaker 2: parish church for the House of Commons. Right, so again

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Speaker 2: he's a com but not common. He grows up. His

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Speaker 2: child playmates are royal, right, they're members of the aristocracy.

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Speaker 2: They're you know, princes and princesses and the like. Most

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Speaker 2: of the adult influences around young George are women because

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Speaker 2: his dad's working all the time, so he is largely

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Speaker 2: raised by his mom and his aunts. And as a result,

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Speaker 2: he's got to be really good with women. And I

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Speaker 2: don't mean like, oh, he's a lethario. I mean that

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Speaker 2: like he genuinely enjoys their company and is a good friend.

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Speaker 2: And most of what we know.

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Speaker 4: About him respects women a little bit.

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Speaker 2: He a lot, Like most of what we know about

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Speaker 2: him is like a lot of the women were who

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Speaker 2: were his friends or his mistresses wrote about him, and

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Speaker 2: they all tended to be like, yeah, it.

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Speaker 4: Was fucking rad.

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Speaker 2: Like he didn't suck, he would listen to what you

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Speaker 2: had to say, he didn't hit you. He was like

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Speaker 2: a nice guy.

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Speaker 1: Like I keep reminding myself that we're talking seventeen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, Great Britain. Yeah, because I'm waiting for the bastardy.

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Speaker 2: There will be there's a lot of bastardy in the

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Speaker 2: social class. But like, again, one of the things you

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Speaker 2: have to respect about this guy is we have a

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Speaker 2: lot of women who wrote about him, and none of

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Speaker 2: them were like and this is the time he was

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Speaker 2: like an abusive prick to me, you know, and you

386
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Speaker 2: really have to be pretty cool to not have stories

387
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Speaker 2: like that about you in the seventeen hundreds as a

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Speaker 2: man of means.

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Speaker 4: Right Exactly.

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Speaker 3: It's like when they're like, yeah, Hunter Biden, he does crack,

391
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Speaker 3: but he's very nice while he does it.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it is if you've known people who

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Speaker 2: use a lot of crack or cocaine, it's really hard

394
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Speaker 2: to do that every twenty minutes and have someone be

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Speaker 2: like I felt safe with him.

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Speaker 4: He just seemed like such a nice, chill process of

397
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Speaker 4: like calming.

398
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Speaker 2: Interesting, he did eleven thousand dollars worth of crack a day,

399
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Speaker 2: but I felt like really calm around him. This is

400
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:54,400
Speaker 2: centering presence. Yeah, most of the adult influences for again,

401
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,679
Speaker 2: for young George are women. His aunts noted later that

402
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 2: he was a massive baby with a massive appetite. That

403
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 2: is the number one thing to say about him as

404
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 2: a baby. It's like he was fucking huge. One of

405
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,479
Speaker 2: the stories we get about him is he was They

406
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 2: had tarts one day, and he was so into eating

407
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 2: a tart that when he got full and he couldn't

408
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 2: eat anymore, he started screaming because he wanted to eat

409
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:22,400
Speaker 2: more tart. Classic fable. Yeah, yeah, same homie, my cat.

410
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Speaker 3: She's like, she's like, I know you just fed me,

411
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Speaker 3: but like I can use another round, Like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I feel I feel I feel that. So

413
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 2: in seventeen eighty, Lord North and the party of men

414
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 2: that George's dad had made his bed with were firmly

415
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 2: on the downswing of their careers. Because you know, seventeen

416
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 2: eighty what do we all know happened a couple of

417
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Speaker 2: years earlier. The Great Britain loses freedom North America.

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Speaker 3: Right, freedom, freedom, Yeah, freedom, freedom, the best parts.

419
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Speaker 2: All the good parts. My god, you know, the Virginia,

420
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Speaker 2: New York, probably other states. Delaware, Delaware, Oh my god,

421
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 2: can you imagine losing Delaware and all of the great

422
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 2: I feel like sheets. They've got sheets is in Delaware.

423
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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong about who has sheets.

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Speaker 4: They got a bank there. I think they've got the oldest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

426
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Speaker 2: A crushing blow to Lord North and the cadre of

427
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Speaker 2: men who were running the empire. Right, And so George's

428
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 2: dad and his friends, they're not going to be out

429
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,239
Speaker 2: of power immediately, but this is going to kind of

430
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Speaker 2: their past and a deer of their power because they

431
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 2: are he is like one of the guys who helps

432
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Speaker 2: lose the United States, and you're going to take a

433
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 2: hit for that. Yeah, And it's you know, that's not

434
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: the only thing that happens. They also are the men

435
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 2: who like win a big war against France. So that

436
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 2: part's good. But Lord North makes some other mistakes. His

437
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 2: biggest is that he doesn't really hate Catholics as much

438
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 2: as most men in the UK do. And that's that's

439
00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 2: going to hurt him. Mistake right now, not being just

440
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 2: enough against the Irish. Yeah. So the fact that he

441
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: just doesn't hate Irish people quite enough culminates in June

442
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 2: of seventeen eighty in an angry mob attacking the Brummel

443
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 2: home in London. George is not directly exposed to any violence,

444
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 2: but he would have heard the shouting, he would have

445
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 2: seen the fear in his family's faces, and he would

446
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 2: have heard volleys of gunfire from Royal troops who had

447
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: to put down the rioters by shooting into crowds. It's

448
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: pretty ugly. So his family, they spend most of their

449
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 2: time out in the country after this, a lot of it. Right,

450
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 2: This is not an uncommon thing for people with means

451
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 2: and wealth to do during this period. We're and they're

452
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: lead up to the French Revolution, right, so things are

453
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 2: not going to get a lot calmer in the near future.

454
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 2: They also officially get given rooms at the Hampton Court

455
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 2: Palace then, which is something of an upgrade from Downing Street.

456
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: And during this period, George is going to have his

457
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 2: first brush with fame because he and his brother are

458
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 2: painted by a famous artist named Joshua Reynolds. And this

459
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 2: is Bow and his brother as like four year olds.

460
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 4: Oh that's these kids.

461
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, literally a very very yeah. They look

462
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: you would say, if you don't know much about like

463
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: classic art, you would say, well, they look like little girls.

464
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 2: And they get little girls because little boys wore dresses

465
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 2: back then, right, It's elegant, it's cute. Dresses are very

466
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,239
Speaker 2: convenient to put on a little kid, so I get it.

467
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 2: You can find I think photos of FDR in addresses

468
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 2: a baby. So this this practice lasts a while. We

469
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 2: just don't yeah, there for no good reason.

470
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 3: I remember we went to when I was in college.

471
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 3: We went to FDR's house in Poughkeepsie and his mother

472
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 3: had like clipped out his baby curls and like kept

473
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 3: them forever to like I guess harass eleanor with them. Yeah,

474
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 3: it would be off. She wasn't such a raging bitch,

475
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 3: but like definitely they're like all these little picture of

476
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 3: little baby FDRs, little curls.

477
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was a gorgeous baby. You can just

478
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: that baby's gonna well, he's gonna do some problematic things,

479
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 2: but overall one of the better presents.

480
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 4: Yeah he's.

481
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gonna commit some crimes against humanity. He's going

482
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: to stop some crimes against humanity, like net like down

483
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 2: to crimes against humanity, which is not bad for a president,

484
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 2: not great for a president either. I don't know, I

485
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: don't know whatever who cares. So while the painting's being made,

486
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: a famous poet, Mary Robinson, lover of the Prince of Wales,

487
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: is inspired to write a poem about Bo, who she

488
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: describes as an infant cherub that's also famous. So he

489
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: is like kind of a child star in his era,

490
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: although he's largely not aware of it. Like he winds

491
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 2: up in a lot of very famous art just because

492
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 2: he's a really cute kid and he's around all of

493
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 2: these artists who hang around the people running the country.

494
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 2: That was enlightening to me reading that was enlightening to

495
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: me because it made a lot of the more pop

496
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: history articles on his background read differently. I want to

497
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: give you an idea of how he's normally written about

498
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: in some of these kind of less nuanced takes. He's

499
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: a quote from a nat Geo article by Ignatio Peiro

500
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 2: Bo Brummel was not an aristocrat. He was a commoner

501
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 2: admitted to the royal circle. That's technically literally true, but

502
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: it makes it sound like he snuck his way in

503
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: as opposed to well, no, there's a class of people

504
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 2: who are common but are part of the upper class,

505
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 2: and his family was very, very solidly among that group

506
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 2: of people. The Esquire article tries to portray his family

507
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: as like economically anxious and social climbers, describing them as

508
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 2: middle class Londoners with loftier aspirations who were desperate to

509
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 2: climb that next rung on the social ladder. And that's

510
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 2: not really right because they were at the top. They

511
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: were as high as you could go in the social ladder.

512
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: Bo's dad is the body man for like the Lord

513
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: of the Treasury. There's really not a hired place for

514
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: them to have gone. Anyway, The Brumo family are not

515
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 2: royalty though, and as you can see, though, he was

516
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 2: like he's not common as a child. In seventeen eighty six,

517
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 2: his father decided to leave governance behind. He had done

518
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 2: very well for himself in Downing Street, and now that

519
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 2: he was like in his fifties, he decided to spend

520
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: his remaining years investing his wealth into property and entering

521
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: a sort of working retirement. So he buys a country

522
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: home for his family. It's a mansion. It's made in

523
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 2: the style of older homes that had never really existed,

524
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: but like this was people's idea of what older manners

525
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 2: have been. Yeah, and it's it was built in Greece.

526
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 4: We're like, this is the fitties.

527
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly, No one ever lived this way, right,

528
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: And the guy who builds it, it's kind of like

529
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: a mc mansion in some ways. It's built by It's

530
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 2: like a super fancy house built by this aristocrat who

531
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 2: bankrupts himself building it. And then Billy's able to get

532
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: it for cheap because he's just much smarter than a

533
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: lot of these guys. Right. Here's how Ian Kelly, Bo's

534
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: biographer describes the process of readying the home for habitation.

535
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: Donnington Grove still bears the marks of the Brummeles social ambitions.

536
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: Like all fashion conscious Georgian landowners, they wanted to create

537
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 2: an arcadia without visible signs of the economy that supported

538
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: their luxury. They had a paper mill demolished, it spoiled

539
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 2: the view, and replaced with the medieval style of fish

540
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 2: and pavilion. See this is like Jefferson's doing a lot

541
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: of similar stuff. We're like, you don't want anyone to

542
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: see the servants, right, you don't want to see You

543
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: just want it to look like it's magical clean.

544
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you want to die like minimally, like like

545
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 3: oh yeah, just the black people just appear in the

546
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: house and then they just vanished.

547
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: Right right, right. So we're gonna talk more about Bo's

548
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: childhood and his attendance at a little school called Eaton.

549
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 2: But first off, before we do that, why don't you

550
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: eat in some of these ads? We're back so as

551
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 2: a boy, as like a you know, young kid, pre adolescent.

552
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: George's idol George is the future Bo. His idol is

553
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: his older neighbor who's a semi famous guy, Tom Sheridan.

554
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 2: Tom is going to become like he's he's a celebrity

555
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: his day. He's a soldier, he writes plays. He's like

556
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 2: a professional adulterer. He's one of these men who, like

557
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: part of his legacy is how good he is at

558
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: cheating on his different wives and mistresses. Right, classic kind

559
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 2: of guy, And like most of those guys, he dies

560
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: young of tuberculosis, right, And that's how.

561
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: You know it was big, you know, like it's like, yeah,

562
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 3: he was prolific.

563
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not really like a famous romantic like male

564
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: influencer if you don't die of TV. That's the that's

565
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 2: like the capstone, you know. That's like winning an oscar

566
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: in this era. Right, If Leonardo DiCaprio had been a

567
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: Regency era like dandy, he would have been looking to

568
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: die of fucking tuberculosis by forty as opposed to doing

569
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: that Bear movie where he won the oscar.

570
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 3: Right, It's like you got to be out by thirty six,

571
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 3: le Byron, because then it's like what.

572
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 4: Are we what are we been doing here?

573
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not going to get better right after thirty six.

574
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: You're pretty much washed in this period at time anyway.

575
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, Tom Sheridan, the main thing that George is

576
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: going to take from him is that Tom is a wit,

577
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: and that's what George is going to grow up wanting

578
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: to be. So I should digress here. One thing the

579
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: story of Bo Brumble makes clear is that Twitter didn't

580
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: invent anything new. It just gave us a way to

581
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: do it online.

582
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 3: Right.

583
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: People have always appreciated sharing funny bits like little lines

584
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: by strangers, and people have always gotten famous. People have

585
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: always in part gotten famous from dropping good one liners.

586
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 2: Most of Regency era British culture that comes down to

587
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: us is, at least a huge amount of it is

588
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: in the form of one liners and quips from people

589
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: like Tom and Bo, who are more famous for like

590
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 2: Tom writes plays and stuff, but he's mostly famous for

591
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: like these little put downs and jokes, these epigrams, than

592
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: any play or novel. Right. Tom is said to have

593
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: originated this bit when his father demanded he'd take a wife.

594
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: He responded, yes, sir, but who's And then his dad

595
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: is like, little motherfucker, I'm not joking around. If you

596
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: don't Mary, I'm gonna cut you off with only a

597
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: penny to your name. And Tom's response was, can I

598
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: have the penny now?

599
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 3: Then?

600
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: Right, He's that kind of a wit right, Yeah, these

601
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: are these are the bits.

602
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 4: No wonder you was sleeping with people's wives exact, of course, he.

603
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: Is right, And this is there's no difference between this

604
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: and dunking on dudes on Twitter, right, Like it is

605
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 2: the same thing, right. The ancient rome they're doing this too,

606
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: a lot of like Roman graffiti is like dunks. It's

607
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: little and in fact, the these British guys, all of

608
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 2: them in school, are studying the way Romans and Greeks

609
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: used to dunk on each other in order to like

610
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: and that's like the core of a lot of like

611
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 2: the culture of humor in this time.

612
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 3: We should teach that course before people get like podcaster mics, like,

613
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 3: it should be a required course before you get.

614
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, take a class.

615
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, take take a Yeah, take a good class in

616
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: dunking people back then. You have to understand being a

617
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: poster isn't new. We've always had posters. The ancient Romans

618
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: were some of the best posters who ever lived. They

619
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: would understand the Internet in the second you know. Now,

620
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: the ancient Greeks, Yeah, they were posters too. A lot

621
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: of posters. Most people in history were posters. That's the

622
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: great lesson of Humankind.

623
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 3: I think the Greeks would have had like a substack.

624
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh my god.

625
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 3: Aristotle would have loved Aristotle would have loved substacks like Jesus.

626
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Aristotle was, Yeah, he would. He would have had

627
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 2: like he would have been one of those things too

628
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: where you would have gotten like ten pages in and

629
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 2: then they would it would have had like the to

630
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: read the rest of the you got to subscribe to

631
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: Aristotle substack. Yeah, right, and no one would have so

632
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: we just would have had like a bunch of half articles,

633
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: which is kind of what we have with Aristotle now.

634
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: So these little bits, stories about people giving these little

635
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: bits about these japes made at parties would spread person

636
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: to person through letters, through like human gossip, and through

637
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: newspapers and magazines which reported on a lot of like

638
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 2: the social gossip between the big figures of the day.

639
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: Novels were another major place where this kind of culture spread.

640
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: Jane Austen is a big part of this, right, So

641
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: Bo grows up idolizing Tom Sheridan, and specifically idolizing the

642
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: fact that he earns a lot of respect because he's

643
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: funny and kind of a dick. He's going to learn

644
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 2: from Tom that like, that's sort of how you make

645
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: a place in yourself in societies. You learn how to

646
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: put people down in a way that's so funny, they

647
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: don't really get angry at you. You know, that's the

648
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: kind of the key to social success in his culture.

649
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: In seventeen eighty six, his dad sends him away to Eton,

650
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 2: the most famous and prestigious boarding school on the island.

651
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 2: This is the school of the Prince and you know,

652
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: the future king, the Prince of Wales now attends. And

653
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: it's not Eton Is. It's still around today, and it

654
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: is a school today at this point in time. It's

655
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: not a school in the way modern people mean when

656
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: they talk about a school. You don't go to Eton

657
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: to learn a trade or a vocation. You don't go

658
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: there because like, well, I'd like to be an English major,

659
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: or I would like to be, you know, be an

660
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: engine or whatever. You go there. You do go there

661
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: to prepare for your job. But as I talked about, earlier,

662
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: jobs for people in this social class at the top

663
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: of the ladder in the British Empire are given out

664
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: by aristocrats to like the people they trust the most.

665
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 2: And so the way that you prepare to start your

666
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: future career and do get a job. Is not learning

667
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: how to do things. It's learning how to be good company. Right.

668
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 2: It's learning how to fit in at the parties. Right,

669
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 2: that will eventually secure you a gig. So Eternians they

670
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: learn Greek, they read the classics, they study philosophy. But

671
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: the purpose of most of this is so that they

672
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: can like share references. And you should think about this

673
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: not as today if somebody's dropping references to like Homer

674
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: or Virgil and like conversation like, oh, you want people

675
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: to know you're smart. Right in this era, it's more

676
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 2: like how if you're hanging out with like a bunch

677
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: of thirty something comedians, everybody's like quoting old bits from

678
00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: the Simpsons, right, it helps you fit Yeah, Yeah.

679
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: Why Charles was so many Yeah because King Charles didn't

680
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: go there, right, and he was real mad about it

681
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: and definitely sent his sons there. But yeah, that makes

682
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: a lot of sense.

683
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: I think we lose a lot when we see these

684
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: classical educations learning Latin, learning Greek and all this stuff

685
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 2: as like well, because they were much smarter than us

686
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,439
Speaker 2: as opposed to like this was kind of the meme

687
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,959
Speaker 2: culture of the day, being able to throw a good

688
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 2: Plato quote in when somebody said something or make a

689
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: good reference to him. That was how people. That was

690
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: how like you communicated.

691
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, it's like footboy finishing school. But like, yeah,

692
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 3: because they did it.

693
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: In Latin, it seems fancier to us, but it's not

694
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: really any different from the way like the Internet of

695
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 2: cultures us all to communicate now. Right. In its early days,

696
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: back in the fifteen hundreds, education at Eton had been

697
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: largely religious, but as Britain had sucked in the world's wealth,

698
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: more and more of the focus had turned towards cultivating

699
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 2: a social class who would wield obscure knowledge to separate

700
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 2: themselves from commoners and gain a common identity right that

701
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: was kind of existed in exclusion to the rest of

702
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 2: the country and the rest of the world. The people

703
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: who did not have that education would almost speak a

704
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 2: different language. At the end of the eighteenth century, the

705
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: specific style of speaking that was taught in Eton was

706
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: based on classic Greek and Roman epigrammatists. An epigram is

707
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: an it's a bit, right, That's what we would call

708
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 2: a bit. It's a couple of good lines, usually satiric

709
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 2: that often played the role of like a rap battle. Right,

710
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: this is how a lot of like old time Greek

711
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 2: and Roman thinkers would like talk shit on each other

712
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: in epigrams.

713
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: Right.

714
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: It's also how ancient Greek and Roman graffiti took, Like,

715
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: that's the form it took. One surviving epigram from POMPEII

716
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: reads and this is like, this is graffiti on a

717
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 2: wall in POMPEII. I'm astonished Wall that you haven't collapsed

718
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: into ruins, since you're holding up the weary verse of

719
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 2: so many poets, right, Like, I'm surprised that you haven't

720
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 2: collapsed into the weight of everybody trying to seem smart

721
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 2: by like throwing out a good one liner. You know, some.

722
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: Tailor swift ash shit right there, Yeah.

723
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, right exactly, department ass wall.

724
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is kind of like that somebody bitching about everybody, yeah,

725
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 2: trying to put on airs seems smarter than they are.

726
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: So it's here that George Brumble is educated in the

727
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 2: art of observing the world and then boiling his thoughts

728
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: into a single razor sharp line. He develops a reputation

729
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 2: for cutting mockery and also for being the funniest kid

730
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: in school. Right, he is like the guy, he's the

731
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 2: cut up, he's the he's a charming joker. Now, and

732
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: that's your Another major focus of eating culture are the uniforms.

733
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 2: Boys are expected to own a dozen shirts and cravats,

734
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 2: plus numerous pairs of pants, waistcoats, breeches, hats, and stockings

735
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 2: for different occasions. And knowing what to wear and win

736
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: is part of what is big part of what you're

737
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: learning there, because that's part of what separates you from

738
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 2: the masses who have whatever set of clothes they have, right,

739
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 2: and maybe a Sunday set of clothes and generally look

740
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: like shit. Right, Yeah, you have the wealth to have

741
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: clothing and care about how you look. Forcing boys who

742
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 2: are generally twelve or thirteen, that's when you start at

743
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 2: Eaton to fit into this social class is not a

744
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 2: peaceful process. You don't just do it by teaching them

745
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: Greek and making them dress up. You do it by

746
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 2: beating the shit out of them. Right. That is a

747
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: major part of a culturating young men here. And I'm

748
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: going to quote in from an article by Austin Jensen

749
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: for reaches of discipline, a boy would be flogged Eaton

750
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 2: specifically used to be renowned for its use of corporal punishment,

751
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 2: generally known as beating. Friday was set aside as flogging

752
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: Day until nineteen sixty four. Offending boys could be summoned

753
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 2: to the head master or lower master as appropriate to

754
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 2: receive a birching on the bear posterior in a semi

755
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: public ceremony held in the library. So like every you

756
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 2: all go to get the shit beat out of you

757
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: and watch, like everybody's gotta watch is your bare askets

758
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 2: paddled in front of the school.

759
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 4: And they wonder why these are not well to people?

760
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, why all of them grow up? I mean,

761
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's part of why guys like Bo's grandpa

762
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 2: are able to make a good living as a pimp,

763
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 2: right because there's probably a lot of money for early

764
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: dominatrixes in this culture, right.

765
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 3: Right, Because you've got to develop a complex where it's

766
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 3: like everything about you is like latched onto like this

767
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 3: weird social like sado masochist thing. But you got to

768
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 3: be smart while you did it by like doing a

769
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 3: whiff after like yeah your ass beat.

770
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta be able to make a good's there's

771
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: a great movie called If That's set. It's actually the

772
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 2: first Malcolm McDowell movie, like it's his first starring role.

773
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: But it's set in the mid century twentieth century at

774
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 2: one of these boarding schools, and there's still about this

775
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: brutal into the late twentieth century. But like, one of

776
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,919
Speaker 2: the things that covers is the way in which it's

777
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 2: almost ritualized and sexualized, this physical violence that all of

778
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: the boys have to endure, and it's a pretty vicious system.

779
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: You know, the prefects where the older boys do a

780
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 2: lot of the actual beatings. It was called a tunding,

781
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 2: which was beating a disobedient student across the back of

782
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 2: his waistcoat with a ground ash the width of a finger,

783
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 2: so it's like a finger with ash stick. Ash is

784
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 2: very hard wood, and the art of it is to

785
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 2: catch the edge of a shoulder blade to hit someone

786
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: in the back and catch them or like hit them

787
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 2: over the shoulder and catch them in the back and

788
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: hit the same spot every time, right, And your kind

789
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: of the goal is to cut their vest their waistcoat

790
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: into strips by whipping them over time, because then they

791
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: have to pay to replace it too. Not only are

792
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: you driving up welts on their back, but they have

793
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: to replace their clothes.

794
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 4: God, the British are not a well people. I hate

795
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 4: that they colonize my all of my groups.

796
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, you're whipping each other's clothes off, and

797
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 3: then you also had time to enslave so many people

798
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 3: like pick a Han get.

799
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 4: Go to therapy.

800
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 2: Anytime you read about like that's probably why they did it.

801
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 4: They were like it, this is.

802
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 2: Our our therapy is doing a couple of genocides, right, like, yeah,

803
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: that's how we're going to starve thirty million people in

804
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 2: Bengal and that's that's really is good for the soul.

805
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 2: It is interesting every time you read about like, oh,

806
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: the British encounter this barbarous pat practice in Kenya, or

807
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: this this horrible practice in India, and like every culture

808
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: has things that they do and have done that are

809
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: not certainly we don't consider to be moral in a

810
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 2: modern sense that we're really ugly. But they act as

811
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 2: if like you guys are whipping each other bloody and

812
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: you've ritualized it, and like some chunk of the boys

813
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: are always sexually molesting each other, because like that is

814
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 2: partly how the system is built is to like enable

815
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 2: these like systems of sexual abuse because you have younger

816
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 2: boys are paired. It's called the fag fag master system.

817
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 2: That is where the slur comes from. And a fag

818
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: is a younger boy who is paired with an older

819
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: boy and he's basically that boy servant and the older

820
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: boy can in addition to whip him basically is supposed

821
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: to control him. And it's not always sexual, but a

822
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: lot of these relationships are sexual, and they're deeply abusive.

823
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 2: And this is like part of the culture of going

824
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 2: to a private school is you are probably going to

825
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: get molested. That's a very especially in this period of

826
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 2: very high odds, right, Like these are barbarous.

827
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 3: Especially when they're like right, especially when they're like fetishizing

828
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 3: the Greeks that were like very much oh in that

829
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: mentality of you you you rear a young boy for

830
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 3: that same kind of like molestation, but also like you're

831
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: supposed to be giving them access to your mind and

832
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to elevate them through that whole process.

833
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so it's you're going part of what you're

834
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 2: doing is you're mixing in the head the things that

835
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: the kid's gonna grow up to be proud of my education,

836
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: my professional competence, And you're also chaining that to the

837
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 2: abuse that they endure at the hands of adults, which

838
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: is I mean, it profoundly damages the Greeks, it profoundly

839
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: damages the Brits. You know, we are still dealing with

840
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: some of the consequences of this to this day. One

841
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 2: thing that is interesting about this system is that in

842
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 2: this school I said, at Eton, the Prince of Wales

843
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 2: goes here. Most of the high aristocracy go to Eton.

844
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 2: They are not immune to being punished. They're not immune

845
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 2: to being punished by people who are lower than them

846
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 2: on the social hierarchy. They get. The Prince of Wales

847
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 2: and the Duke of York, who go to the school

848
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 2: a little before George does, are noted by their sisters

849
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: having been flogged like dogs for misbehavior. So there's also

850
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 2: an element of like trauma bonding for the entire upper

851
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 2: class in that they have this common experience that's very important.

852
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: Now George, he he goes through this system, he is

853
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: noted as being very well liked. He is not somebody

854
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 2: who ever, is noted as having flogged anyone else and

855
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 2: he seems to have almost entirely escaped being physically abused

856
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 2: himself in a way that is so unique. It was

857
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: remarked upon by his peers at the time like somehow

858
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 2: he always got out of it and nobody else did, right,

859
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 2: And part of how he got out of the bullshit

860
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 2: is like everyone really liked him. We have numerous reports

861
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: in his classmates of like he was the cool kid

862
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: in school. He was the kid you wanted to be,

863
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: and nobody, even like the upper classmen, the school teachers

864
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: just didn't seem to want to fuck with him much

865
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 2: because he was so funny. He was so like you

866
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 2: wanted him to like you and think you were cool.

867
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 4: Right, do we have.

868
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: Any information like like what books was he reading? Like

869
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: where is he getting his coolness from? Like why is

870
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: he so fucking cool he's reading at Riz?

871
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of just natural, Riz. You know, he

872
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 2: paid attention to Tom growing up. He pays attention to

873
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: like how you craft a joke. He does really well

874
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 2: in school, so he's good on his Greek and his

875
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 2: lad and he's good at his history. He's not the best.

876
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 2: He avoids doing too well because he doesn't want to,

877
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 2: like then people to like you if you do too well.

878
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 2: But he's like good enough to be noted as a

879
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: good student, not so good that people are like fuck

880
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: with him for it, right, he has this. He's one

881
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 2: of these people who seems to be born with an

882
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 2: innate sense of social navigation. He always knows how to

883
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: be most maximally appealing in any situation without crossing any

884
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: kind of lines that like make you tiring to people. Yeah,

885
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: it's riz, you know, he's just yeah, he's got yeah.

886
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 4: He's got it.

887
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 3: Everything you said about him reminds me of what people

888
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 3: said about Truman Capoti, about how like even when he

889
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 3: was very like toxic, but he was so funny, so charming,

890
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 3: new stuff about everybody that he always would have, for

891
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 3: the most part, a circle of people around him because

892
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 3: he was just so ingrat it even kind reminds me

893
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 3: of Shakespeare, with the idea of like this person who's

894
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 3: like not of the right class to some people, but

895
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 3: still like very charismatic, knows enough stuff that like it

896
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 3: doesn't matter enough.

897
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: Yeah it doesn't matter, And he seems to be he

898
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 2: seems to be so confident and he seems to know

899
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: what he wants so well that you kind of line

900
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,879
Speaker 2: up behind him, because most people, even if you're at

901
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 2: the top of the class, even if you're the fucking

902
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: Prince of Wales, inside you're a ball of insecurity. And

903
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 2: I actually think Bo was as well. I think everyone is,

904
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 2: but he seemed to have a sense of direction for

905
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: himself that kind of makes everyone feel like you want

906
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 2: to just follow. You want him to like you, because

907
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: then you feel like maybe you know where you're going to.

908
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 2: He's that kind of a person, right, He's a natural leader.

909
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: I also think of Tom Cruise when I see this,

910
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: not that Tom doesn't have his weird side, but like

911
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 2: if you notice how people will point this out. You

912
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: can look at like long shots of Tom when he's

913
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 2: like they're not actively filming, but like he's on set

914
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: and you'll see him like walking and he's like one

915
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: hundred yards back from the camera, but his face he

916
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 2: always instinctively is always turned in such a way that

917
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 2: it's ideally framed in the camera. He just has he

918
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 2: always knows in his brain how he's being looked at

919
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 2: and how to present himself in this part of what

920
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 2: makes him Tom Cruise, Bo's got that right. It's almost

921
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: a supernatural sense for that sort of thing. And you

922
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: know what else is supernatural the quality of our sponsors.

923
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 2: You'll see. God, we're back and we're talking about Bo.

924
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: So I've talked about you know, the system that he's

925
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 2: in where you've got he. You know, all the younger

926
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 2: kids in Eton are the job title. They have his fags,

927
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 2: and then you have your older boy who's your master,

928
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 2: who is supposed to run you. We have a quote

929
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: from the guy who is that for Bo, and this

930
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 2: is what he said about Bo. While they were in

931
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 2: school together, no one at the school was so full

932
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 2: of animation, fun and wit. He was a general favorite.

933
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,240
Speaker 2: Our dame, his tutor, and my tutor and doctor goodall

934
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: all petted him. You asked me whether he was pugnacious.

935
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 2: I do not remember that he ever fought or quarreled

936
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 2: with anyone. Indeed, it was impossible for anyone to be

937
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 2: more good natured than he was. And again, like everyone

938
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 2: fights at this school, everybody gets into scraps except for Bo.

939
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 2: Nobody even wants to fight him. He's just that kind

940
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 2: of naturally charming. And that's what I see in that

941
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 2: is that like this is a defense mechanism. He is

942
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 2: someone who knows and we get from the women who

943
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: know him at the time. He doesn't like a lot

944
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: of aspects of how brutal this system is, like nobody

945
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: really does. And he knows that the way to protect

946
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 2: himself is by being defensively likable. Right. So yeah, now

947
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: Eton is not a placid place. Boys are given a

948
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 2: lot more freedom than we give adolescence today. Of the

949
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: other things you learn at Eaton is how to drink,

950
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 2: which you start learning as a young man in the

951
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: British aristocracy at thirteen or fourteen. So these boys outside

952
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 2: of school, there's a town nearby that has a couple

953
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 2: of bars that cater specifically to eat and boys. And

954
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: part of what you're learning is how to drink like

955
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: a man, right, Like you are getting wasted as a

956
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 2: little kid, because that you need to be able to

957
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 2: drink like a son of a bitch in order to

958
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 2: in order to exist in high society.

959
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 3: Right, How can you die of a liver problem if

960
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 3: you don't start drinking, right.

961
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you don't really get a handle

962
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: on this soon, you might live past forty and we

963
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: don't want that. Nobody wants to live you. You've got

964
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 2: to get some tuberculosis, guys, you.

965
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 4: Know, come on right, amateur hour, Yeah right.

966
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 2: Like what if you wind up not being sauced your

967
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 2: entire adult life, that would be a real loss. So

968
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 2: these kids are rich little shits. They wind up in

969
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: fights with local boys a lot because they can't even

970
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 2: communicate with these boys. They are raised speaking effectively different languages,

971
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 2: and often literally different languages, because they communicate a lot

972
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 2: in Latin among each other, right in French and Greek.

973
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: This passage from a biography on Beau Brummel by Ian

974
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 2: Kelly describes one instance of young bo confronting the violence

975
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 2: that resulted from this situation, this kind of discrepancy between

976
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 2: the local common kids and the eton boys. A boatman

977
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: who had found himself in some altercation with the schoolboys

978
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 2: was on the point of being thrown over the bridge

979
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 2: into the low waters of the Thames by a mob

980
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 2: of over one hundred Etonians. Buck Brummel, perhaps fourteen at

981
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 2: the time, caught the attention and laughter of the Etonian

982
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 2: and cad hooligans alike by shouting, my dear fellows, don't

983
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 2: send him into the river. That man is obviously in

984
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 2: a state of perspiration, and it almost amounts to a

985
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 2: certainty that he will catch cold. Brummell was rewarded with guffaws,

986
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 2: perhaps some amusement in the face of such paradoxical whimsy,

987
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: typical of his later style, and the Boatman was released.

988
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 2: So he comes upon a crowd his his schoolboys. They

989
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 2: run around in big groups because they will get picked

990
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: on by the locals otherwise. They start a fight with

991
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 2: this random work king class guy, and they're about to

992
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 2: throw him into the fucking river. And Bo comes up

993
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 2: and he makes fun of the guy. He's like, look

994
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 2: at how sweaty he is, Like you don't want it,

995
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: Like he's already wet enough, you don't even to throw

996
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 2: him into the river. But he makes fun of this

997
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 2: guy to disarm the situation and stop him from being

998
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 2: further abused, which I think speaks to an aspect of

999
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 2: his character that's actually like complex and positive. Yeah, cool guy.

1000
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: So it was learning this that made me think Bo

1001
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 2: was a more complicated figure than the first articles I

1002
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 2: read made him out to be. To quote again from

1003
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 2: that x that Esquire article attacking him, he made an

1004
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 2: habitual performance of rye cruelty, lifting himself up by putting

1005
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 2: other people down, and a lot of people even to

1006
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: this day think that kind of thing is funny. And

1007
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: I think the difference is, I think what Alexander's doing there,

1008
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 2: She's looking at a lot of Internet put down culture,

1009
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 2: which is deeply cruel and is focused around singling people out,

1010
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 2: often making uncharitable conclusions or often uncharitable interpretations of their

1011
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 2: words to to get in a quick dunk for social

1012
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 2: media engagement. That's a huge most of social media today,

1013
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 2: and it's really ugly. It's very abusive. It's part of

1014
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 2: why harassment is such a problem online. And I kind

1015
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: of see a lot of what Bose doing is kind

1016
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 2: of the opposite and part of how you can get

1017
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 2: that some of these are put downs. He says mean

1018
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: things to people, they usually still like him, and the

1019
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: mean things are often to diffuse tense social situations with humor,

1020
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 2: right by taking the piss out of people as opposed

1021
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 2: to trying to like. I think he does bet he

1022
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 2: can be a dick to It's not the only thing

1023
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 2: he does. But we get examples of him that come

1024
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 2: down to us from three hundred years ago of him

1025
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 2: stopping fights bye bye by this kind of thing, by

1026
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 2: like you know, making a good joke at the right time.

1027
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to use my history minor cap on

1028
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 3: and say, like, he probably I don't know, I don't

1029
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 3: know who this guy is, but I'm guessing he probably

1030
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 3: pissed off somebody that was high enough that they were

1031
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,240
Speaker 3: able to sort of like reframe a narrative.

1032
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 4: Because right now he sounds great.

1033
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 3: I would love a blunt rotation with him that sounds

1034
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 3: like I think he'd be really cool. But I definitely

1035
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 3: think that like there's gonna be a mixture of a

1036
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 3: class issue because people keep talking about him in these

1037
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 3: articles that you're referencing as if he's like a Kardashian almost,

1038
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 3: as if like, yeah, where does he think he's coming

1039
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 3: from with his fat ass, you know, like trying to

1040
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 3: take up space in our society. So I can't to

1041
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 3: see who he pisses off because I know I know

1042
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 3: it's coming.

1043
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 2: We are building to that, because that is his fall.

1044
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: His fall is he like he talks shit about the

1045
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 2: wrong guy and that does like destroy his entire life eventually, right,

1046
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 2: and I'll do it, and the guy he talks about

1047
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 2: deserves it. You know, it's not fair on his part

1048
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 2: that he gets fucked for that. But yeah, I think

1049
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 2: you have to look at his put downs, the fact

1050
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 2: that this is the primary way that he communicates with

1051
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 2: the world. But within the context of this is how

1052
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 2: his social class communicates with each other. Having a sharp

1053
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 2: tongue is the key to popularity and the key of

1054
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 2: protecting yourself. And it's a lot that his old master

1055
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 2: describes him as like nobody wanted to fight with this guy,

1056
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 2: which means all of the jokes he's making, none of

1057
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 2: them like culminate and someone demanding an honor duel with him, right,

1058
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 2: Like they don't. They're good natured, exactly exactly. So yeah,

1059
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 2: I think that's what we see with bo Is. He

1060
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 2: he enters, he's entering, and he's aware that he's entering

1061
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 2: a culture dominated by the cruel, wealthy fail sons of

1062
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 2: his era, who are on the lookout for any signs

1063
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 2: of difference that they can attack and the people around them.

1064
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 2: And he makes himself their idol in the most popular

1065
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 2: boy at the school, as a method of self defense,

1066
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 2: because that's the only way to get by in this world, right,

1067
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 2: And I kind of see him in that as a

1068
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 2: little bit of a rebel right, and it's from a

1069
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: desire to rebel at Eton that the foundations of what

1070
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 2: would become the modern suit are going to present themselves

1071
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 2: to bow for the first time. Every year, Eaton Boys

1072
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 2: engaged in a festival called Montam. Montam is a mix

1073
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 2: of like how we see Halloween today and like a

1074
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 2: child riot, like it was a controlled riot of rich kids,

1075
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 2: kind of mixed with Halloween all of the Eton boys

1076
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: of course, yeah right, yeah.

1077
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 4: Of course, a fun, little rich boy riot.

1078
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The kids need their little their little riot,

1079
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,760
Speaker 2: you know, we gotta let them beat up the commoners,

1080
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 2: which is a lot of what happens during Montum. The

1081
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: boys will elect captains, and the captains and the kids,

1082
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: the upper classmen who get elected to positions. Almost it's

1083
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 2: like a homecoming thing. They dress in these insanely elaborate,

1084
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,720
Speaker 2: expensive uniforms, and the younger boys dress in these quasi

1085
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 2: military uniforms, and they they form up in gangs on

1086
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 2: like the bridges, and they will rob common people trying

1087
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 2: to cross the road basically, and it's yeah, hoodlams. It's

1088
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 2: kind of it's ritualized, so like they're not like they

1089
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 2: usually are not taking your actual stuff. You know what

1090
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 2: Montum you want to have like some treats and stuff

1091
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: for the boys who are like going to be pretending

1092
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 2: to be brigands, Like, right, give them some beer. You know.

1093
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 3: That's how they're getting the trigger treat It's like it's

1094
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 3: like we'll fight you or give us your.

1095
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 2: Food, right, And usually it's like a friendly Yeah, the

1096
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 2: kids are out tonight, they're doing their Montum thing, We'll

1097
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 2: give them some treats. Sometimes people fuck up, or the

1098
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: kids are drunk and so they start shit, or sometimes

1099
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 2: the locals are drunk and they start so things can

1100
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: get very violent. Sometimes Montum turns into something that is

1101
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 2: like a really ugly riot, but it is supposed to

1102
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 2: be this like ritualized sort of blowing off of steam thing.

1103
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: And like every other aspect of eating, Montum has a

1104
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 2: rigorously enforced class system. So the higher up you get,

1105
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 2: the more insane your costume, which fits in, you know,

1106
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 2: the costumes that montum fit in with the fancy dress

1107
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 2: of the day, which emphasizes men are wearing these powdered

1108
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 2: wigs that we're all familiar with from like Revolutionary War

1109
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 2: era media, right, and they wear these incredible multipiece outfits

1110
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 2: that would be considered like a bit much at the

1111
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 2: met Gala today, and you give a little more detail

1112
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 2: about this. I want to quote from an article I

1113
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 2: found published by the Jane Austin Society, written by Jeffrey

1114
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 2: Nigro and William Phillips. By seventeen seventy five, Yeah, this

1115
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: is good. We got a fun picture coming up for you.

1116
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 2: By seventeen seventy five, it was still acceptable for men

1117
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 2: to wear silk, satin, or velvet in bright or pastel colors,

1118
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 2: with lace, cravats and cuffs, powdered hair, and perfume. The

1119
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 2: most extreme fashion victims of the moment were the Macaronis.

1120
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 2: These Foppish men supposedly derived their fame from the Macaroni Club,

1121
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 2: an organization of fashionable young Englishman who had returned from

1122
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 2: the Grand Tour with a love for continental fashions, culture,

1123
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 2: and cuisine. The Macaroni style was an extreme form of appearance,

1124
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 2: exaggerated in costumes, cosmetics, and hair styles. And these people,

1125
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to show you. Sovie's going to pull up

1126
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 2: a picture to look at how this is a This

1127
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 2: is a macaroni, like a man dressed in this style,

1128
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 2: and it's like.

1129
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 3: Oh my god, he has the dune worm on his

1130
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 3: fucking headdog, what's you talking about?

1131
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1132
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 2: He's got like Marge Simpson hair. I would describe the

1133
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 2: look on his face is like what if there was

1134
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 2: a pedophile for pedophiles, Like it is a creepy smile.

1135
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 2: He's got like a joker smile. It's exacerbated by his

1136
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 2: insane makeup.

1137
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god, they should be thanking this man like

1138
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 3: it looks like he's his hair sounds about to ejaculate,

1139
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 3: Like I really, it's gaping at me.

1140
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 4: It's really, it's very so gross. I love it, but

1141
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 4: I'm glad it's gone.

1142
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm glad it died out. I'm glad it

1143
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 2: existed when we can look at this picture now and

1144
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 2: you can see how elaborate and heavy that dress is, right,

1145
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 2: and this is not that hair piece is not a

1146
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: normal day to day where for someone that is masquerade

1147
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 2: where that I just showed you, but it shows you,

1148
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 2: like the during festivals, how outrageous the costumes were, and

1149
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 2: the normal social costumes are less insane, but there's still

1150
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 2: really elaborate. There's a lot of gold and gilding and

1151
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 2: silver on them, a lot of jewelry, a lot of makeup,

1152
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 2: a lot of powder, and the hair pieces people wore

1153
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 2: at the time are not light or comfortable. Outfits like this,

1154
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 2: which are in outfits that are more elaborate than this,

1155
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 2: are common among upper classmen during montam but one group

1156
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 2: of boys who make up the majority of the Mountum crowd,

1157
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 2: the younger boys, are pullmen, and they wear a simpler

1158
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 2: outfit because they're kind of the grunts the soldiers of

1159
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 2: the older boys who are wearing these elaborate outfits, and

1160
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 2: they wear dark blue jackets with two rows of buttons

1161
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 2: and pale, tight writing breeches. George comes to prefer this

1162
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 2: outfit as a matter of daily wear as opposed to

1163
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 2: the more elaborate, fancy dress of the time, and when

1164
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 2: he goes gets out of Eton, he continues to dress

1165
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 2: like a pullman, like this is like a costume, but

1166
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 2: it's one that he really digs and he just starts

1167
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 2: wearing it every day. And it's important to note this outfit,

1168
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 2: what he is wearing, the pullman's outfit that becomes he

1169
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 2: is going to eventually kind of streamline this into the

1170
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: precursor of the modern suit. This is a quasi Milliet

1171
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 2: Tarry outfit. It is made in part and imitation of

1172
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 2: some of the military outfits of the day. It's also

1173
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 2: ath leisure, right, most popular dress clothing is very restrictive,

1174
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 2: but because of the weight and the materials used to

1175
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 2: make it. The outfits George favored take after the jackets

1176
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 2: and stuff to and the waistcoats take after military uniforms.

1177
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 2: So you have to be able to move into some extent.

1178
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 2: And the breeches are writing pants. They're not quite modern trousers,

1179
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: but you're meant to be able to move in them. Right.

1180
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 3: So well, you're telling me is that not only was

1181
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 3: he the precursor of the suit and tie, he was

1182
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 3: a precursor of wearing leggings as pants.

1183
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, these are literally legs. These are so tight.

1184
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 2: One of the jokes will let you day make is

1185
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 2: that once breeches start being like common and the more

1186
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 2: common fashionble pants, one of the jokes men where women

1187
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 2: will make is that, like, oh, these are great. You

1188
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,479
Speaker 2: can always tell what your man is thinking, right because

1189
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 2: you can you can see his dick through the fucking

1190
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,479
Speaker 2: it's so tight, right, Like, because these are skin tight pants,

1191
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 2: you're almost poured into them. As a man. These are

1192
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 2: yoga pants. Yeah, and older people will attack this outfit

1193
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 2: for the same reason that they attack yoga pants. Where

1194
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 2: was like, it's obscene. The kids are dressing this way.

1195
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 2: He's tight, braches failthy.

1196
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're just cutting off the circulation.

1197
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 4: They're going to end the bloodline.

1198
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 2: Right, right, right, So influenced by the central role of

1199
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 2: fashion that Eton, by the time George Brummel left the school,

1200
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 2: he had developed a reputation for fastidiousness.

1201
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: Right.

1202
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 2: He is noted to be almost obsessively like focused on

1203
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 2: his personal hygiene and the fit of his clothes. He's

1204
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 2: already spending a significant time every day getting ready to dress.

1205
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 2: He's always focused on how he looks. And he might

1206
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 2: have had what we would describe as like dysmorphia or

1207
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 2: even you know, some sort of It's impossible to know,

1208
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna read you a quote from Ian Kelly's biography.

1209
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 2: It may speak partly of an uncomfortable relationship with his body.

1210
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 2: This may be attributed to his position in the male

1211
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 2: gaze at Eton, a supremely homosexual environment, and may also

1212
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 2: be related to growing up in a highly sexualized society

1213
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 2: that it was at the same time, violently and empathetic

1214
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 2: to the direct outlet of adolescent male energy. Right, everyone

1215
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 2: is a lot. There's a lot of these boys are

1216
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 2: fucking each other. Right. There's not a small amount of

1217
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 2: older men, particularly at the school, who are also abusing boys.

1218
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 2: And everyone's dressing, it's very common. A lot of these

1219
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 2: dresses are especially like the outfits that he prefers. These

1220
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 2: tight leggings are extremely revealing. And he's always conscious of

1221
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 2: how he looks because he's always conscious that he's being sexualized, right,

1222
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 2: and that influences him a lot. And the evidence that

1223
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 2: he suggests that we have, I think suggests that the

1224
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 2: fact that he adopts this outfit for himself and he's

1225
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 2: going to make everyone else adopt it as a result

1226
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:50,959
Speaker 2: of how much they want to be like him, because

1227
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 2: he is the cool guy. Everyone wants to be like. Bo.

1228
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 2: I see this suit he starts to create as a

1229
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 2: suit of armor, right, to protect himself from his fellow men. Right,

1230
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 2: And he's so good at this that they come to

1231
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 2: admire him. He is rare, if not singular, in this

1232
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 2: period for being a man of his social class who

1233
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 2: had a lot of close female friends and one of

1234
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 2: the first is Julius Storer. This is his first love.

1235
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 2: He describes it as he follows falls violently in love

1236
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 2: with her when he's like fourteen or fifteen, but he

1237
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 2: ultimately loses out to the guy who wins her. You know,

1238
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 2: in the parlance at the time is they are both

1239
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 2: for Julius fourteen or fifteen. Bo is fourteen or fifteen.

1240
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 2: The guy who uh you know she winds up going

1241
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 2: with is thirty years from colonel. Yeah, yeah, age, Yeah,

1242
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 2: he is a He is a colonel in the army.

1243
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 4: Colonel and yeah, sorry, I was like.

1244
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1245
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 2: He is seen as being very handsome of his day,

1246
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 2: although bo will repeatedly note as an adult that he's stank,

1247
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 2: he smelled terrible. Bo is obsessed with his hygi. Bo

1248
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 2: is the at least in this period. Eventually he's going

1249
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 2: to make this this again. People will all follow him

1250
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 2: in this. But he is like the first man of

1251
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 2: his social class to make daily hot baths a part

1252
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 2: of his life, right, kon.

1253
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 4: Honestly, I'm like, we love it, both like to see it.

1254
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 2: He's unique because like he doesn't wear perfume. He refuses

1255
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 2: to because he's like, you only wear perfume if you're

1256
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 2: fucking gross, right like, because because that's why people wear

1257
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: perfume in this period of time. I'm not going to

1258
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 2: just take a fucking bath and ed you're clothes washed

1259
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 2: every day, you know. And I think some of that

1260
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: is a reaction to this colonel who he thinks is

1261
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: nasty and who also who also wins. Again, we are

1262
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 2: talking about a pedophilic relationship. But the way he looks

1263
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 2: at it in the time is this is another man

1264
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 2: who is one, you know, who's beaten him in this contest. Right.

1265
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that because I think that's a good

1266
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 2: way to look at it, but that's how it's looked

1267
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 2: at at the time, and you have to you have

1268
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 2: to know that, right you know. Again, this is a

1269
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 2: thirty year old and a fourteen year old or something.

1270
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 2: Julia and George are both teenagers. The colonel is a creepy.

1271
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 2: He is also married, so this is not his Thirty

1272
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 2: year olds can court fifteen year olds in this period

1273
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 2: and there be a degree of legitimacy to it. This

1274
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 2: is not that kind of case. He is married, He

1275
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 2: is not supposed to be doing this his wife. To

1276
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 2: make this fucking colonel Cotton his wife has postpartum depression,

1277
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 2: and after she has like, I forget I think it's

1278
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 2: that first or second kid. She's like, I'm never going

1279
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 2: to sleep in the same bed with you again because

1280
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 2: I don't want any more kids. This is awful, and

1281
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 2: so he's like, well, I guess I'm going to go

1282
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 2: fuck a child.

1283
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 3: Cool, there you go. I mean, rational decision. It's like,

1284
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 3: what do you want to want me to leave you?

1285
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 3: Would you either not get blown? I don't understand the question.

1286
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fine, I will ruin the life of a

1287
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 2: teenage girl, which he does, so he has extramarital sex

1288
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 2: with a child. This devastates young George, and it's much

1289
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 2: much worse for Julia because she gets pregnant. Now at

1290
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 2: that time, she is in high society woman. She is

1291
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 2: a member of the aristocracy, and being having sex out

1292
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 2: of wedlock with a married man, it means you're worthless

1293
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 2: now you can't get married, and that's all your your

1294
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 2: future social capitals, your ability to get married. She is

1295
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 2: going to become an un person because of this right,

1296
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 2: lacking better options. Thus, she hides her pregnancy in the

1297
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 2: outlandish outfits of the upper class, which it gives you

1298
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 2: an idea of how ridiculous the dresses during this period.

1299
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 2: No one right, right. She is able to hide that

1300
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 2: she's pregnant until her water breaks during an audience with

1301
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 2: the Queen, which is the worst.

1302
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 3: For baby baby dude, what the fuck that is an hop?

1303
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, So, like her water breaks at like a party

1304
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 5: and it's the queen and all of the Queen's friends

1305
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 5: and this her whole family is almost wiped out as

1306
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 5: like influential members of society.

1307
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 2: Because of the shame from this, her brother challenges Colonel

1308
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: Cotton to a duel. Colonel Cotton, by the way, is fine.

1309
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 2: This is not the end of his social life. Of course,

1310
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 2: she gets thrown out of her home, and since she's married,

1311
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 2: she can't go to Colonel Cotton's home, so she winds

1312
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 2: up sneaking into an empty room at the palace because

1313
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 2: there are a lot of empty rooms and she has

1314
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 2: to deliver her own baby at age fifteen.

1315
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 3: She loves no fucking I hate everything now that's kill Cotton.

1316
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 2: George stops talking to her for a while, not because

1317
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 2: of this, because like she breaks up with him, right,

1318
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:38,439
Speaker 2: and he's broken hearted, But we know at the time

1319
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 2: he writes about because he's aware of what happens to her,

1320
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:44,919
Speaker 2: and he thinks it's awful. He's like upset about how

1321
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 2: cool this is, Like this fucking thirty year old molests

1322
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 2: her and now she's an un person that's like like

1323
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 2: fuck my culture, right, Like he's very much angry about this.

1324
01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 2: She is going to have four more kids with the

1325
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 2: colonel because basically she winds up living in sin with

1326
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 2: him in a country house. Thankfully, she is rich, She's

1327
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 2: a lot luckier than most women in this situation, and

1328
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:08,439
Speaker 2: that she does have family money, so she doesn't wind

1329
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 2: up desperate. She will eventually become one of the most

1330
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 2: famous courtisans of her era. She becomes a famous and

1331
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 2: successful high end sex worker for the aristocracy and actually

1332
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:21,920
Speaker 2: kind of earns her way to a degree, back into

1333
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 2: high society because if you are a high end courtisan,

1334
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 2: there are certain high society gatherings that you're allowed in,

1335
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 2: and she does eventually. It's part she's a very powerful

1336
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 2: woman in that way. And it's from her memoirs that

1337
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 2: we know some of what we know about George, because

1338
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 2: as adults they become friends and lovers again, and we

1339
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 2: don't know the full details of their relationship. It speaks

1340
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 2: well to bo that like, he does not care that

1341
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 2: she has a love child, which is how he describes it.

1342
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 2: That's the parlance at the times with this soldier. He

1343
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 2: doesn't care that she's disgraced. He thinks the society is wrong.

1344
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 2: And he actually one of the beautiful hints that we

1345
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 2: get about, like what the kind of decency of his

1346
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 2: heart is that he writes a poem for her child,

1347
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 2: for this baby, because he views what happens to this

1348
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 2: baby and his mom as an evil. Right, and again

1349
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 2: he does describe this as a love child. We think

1350
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 2: that's gross. That's how people talked about this at the time, right,

1351
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 2: And here is here is the poem he writes for

1352
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 2: her child, unhappy child of indiscretion, poor slumberer on a breast,

1353
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:26,759
Speaker 2: forlorn pledge in reproof of past transgression. Dear, though unwelcome

1354
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 2: to be born, unless the injurious world upbraid thee for

1355
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:33,840
Speaker 2: mine or for thy mother's ill, a nameless father still

1356
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 2: shall aid thee, a hand unseen protect thee. Still. Meanwhile,

1357
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,759
Speaker 2: in these sequestered valleys, still thou shalt rest in calm,

1358
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:45,759
Speaker 2: content for innocence, may smile at malice and thou oh,

1359
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 2: thou art innocent, and this is because he helps her out,

1360
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 2: he helps protect her and her kids. As an adult,

1361
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 2: he's like, that's a decent man, aware of the evil

1362
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 2: of his time. And that's actually a pretty good poem too.

1363
01:08:58,920 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 2: He's a good writer.

1364
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a good man, Savannah. You know, like that's

1365
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:05,679
Speaker 3: all very solid for him.

1366
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, solid dude for the seventeen eighties, I know.

1367
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Hunter Biden of his time, true.

1368
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 2: Excellent, strong hunter vibes. The George Brummel who writes this

1369
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 2: would be at age sixteen, is going to make his

1370
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,600
Speaker 2: first decision as an independent adult, which is going to

1371
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 2: be to purchase a commission as an officer in the army,

1372
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:33,799
Speaker 2: specifically in the very regiment where the Colonel Cotton disgraced

1373
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 2: Colonel Cotton had once held his command. Right, He's going

1374
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:38,639
Speaker 2: to choose to not just join the army again. He's

1375
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 2: obsessed with smelling good. This smells bad. He joins the

1376
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 2: same regiment that this guy had once helped to run,

1377
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 2: and it was at this regiment that he's going to

1378
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 2: meet the man who's going to make him into a star.

1379
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 2: The future King and current Prince of Wales, and we're

1380
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 2: going to talk about all that in part two. Princess,

1381
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 2: how are you feeling about h BO so far? Hero

1382
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 2: or a villain?

1383
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm really ruined for the guy. I like rich.

1384
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 3: I feel like he got cut out there by rich

1385
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 3: white people, which who has it? So I really I'm

1386
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 3: waiting for something bad to happen, so I can see

1387
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 3: why they hate him, But I'm.

1388
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 4: Rooted for the guy.

1389
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:22,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there'll be there's a couple of la He's

1390
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 2: not a perfect man, but so far I see a

1391
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 2: guy who's just tried to do his best in a

1392
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 2: really fucking dog shit society, and who amongst us doesn't

1393
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:33,679
Speaker 2: feel like that? Sometimes?

1394
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 4: So true?

1395
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:36,559
Speaker 3: And also I like the I like the Regency era

1396
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:38,839
Speaker 3: men attire. I like those tight ass breaches.

1397
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 2: So oh yeah, yeah, yeah, our yoga pants entrepreneur. Yeah

1398
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 2: all right, Well, I'm going to go put on some

1399
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 2: yoga pants. I'm actually going to put on much looser pants,

1400
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 2: and we'll be back and well, for you and I

1401
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 2: will be like seven minutes, but for the audience it'll

1402
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 2: be like a day or so.

1403
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 1: Princess, do you have anything you want to plug at

1404
01:10:58,960 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: the end here?

1405
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 3: M h yeah, I just My YouTube channel is Princess Weeks.

1406
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:06,599
Speaker 4: I have fun videos out.

1407
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 3: By the time this comes out, I should have some

1408
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 3: new fun stuff and I'm really excited to learn more

1409
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 3: about bo Uh yeah that's me.

1410
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Check out Princess and uh well, I'm not

1411
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 2: going to tell you to go buy a suit because

1412
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 2: you know who can't afford to do that. A lot

1413
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 2: of people. Uh but I don't know.

1414
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,879
Speaker 4: Get some yoga, get some yoga pants. Thanks.

1415
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1416
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1417
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 1: zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1418
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.