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Speaker 1: And now Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

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Speaker 1: What's off? Everybody? Welcome to Move the six d J.

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Speaker 1: Bucky back with you, Buck. How you doing man, Man,

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Speaker 1: I'm good. How's everything your way? Oh it's good man,

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Speaker 1: I've had fun yesterday, right, we got the Move the

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Speaker 1: Six television show on the air. So that was cool,

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Speaker 1: and I know we got a lot of good feedback

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Speaker 1: from everybody, So thanks for for the nice words there.

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Speaker 1: If you missed it, we have it coming up again.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna rerun it here on Friday, eight pm Eastern Um,

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Speaker 1: also on Saturday at twelve am, four am, and eight am.

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Speaker 1: So if you don't like to sleep, um, you can.

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Speaker 1: You can get your Move the Sticks fixed right there.

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Speaker 1: Just pretend you went out all night long, right, nobody

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Speaker 1: can really go out, but just have one of those

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Speaker 1: nights where you just stayed home. Pretend you were out

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Speaker 1: having a really good time, and then get yourself at

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Speaker 1: cheeseburger and pony up to sticks at four am. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Um no, but it was really it was really cool

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Speaker 1: bringing that to light. Um. A lot of people behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes really worked toward to make that happen. And

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Speaker 1: after watching it, bag Man really really excited because I

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Speaker 1: really felt like watching it was just another version of

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Speaker 1: our podcast. Yeah, it was fun man, and uh coming

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Speaker 1: out of it, you know, it just sparked all these

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Speaker 1: different ideas in my head too about other things we

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Speaker 1: can do that it will be fun and engaging and

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Speaker 1: uh and hopefully make this a show that just gets

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Speaker 1: better and better as we go along here. But again,

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Speaker 1: really cool when you think back. September of was the

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Speaker 1: first move the Sticks podcast Buck and that was with

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Speaker 1: Howie Roseman, who was on the first episode was talking

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Speaker 1: about Chip Kelly uh and the innovation there at the

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Speaker 1: Philadelphi Eagles also touched upon the H J. J. Watt

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Speaker 1: contract extension. So that gives you a little reference there

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Speaker 1: of how long we've been doing this podcast so uh

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Speaker 1: to kind of work away at something. I mean, most people,

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Speaker 1: when you try and study something and do your best

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Speaker 1: to master a subject, after six years, you you become

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Speaker 1: a doctor or a lawyer. And somehow we just condemned

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Speaker 1: to giving us a TV show. I know, um no,

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Speaker 1: but it's been It's been really fun because as much

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Speaker 1: um as we've it into it, I feel like we

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Speaker 1: continue to learn and with the guests with our steady

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Speaker 1: dialogue and conversation on air and off air. UM, I

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Speaker 1: feel like I continue to learn so much about team building,

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Speaker 1: to scouting, business, evaluating players, and all the other stuff

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Speaker 1: that comes along with it. Well, one one part of

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Speaker 1: that episode UH that aired was a little snippets of

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Speaker 1: some of the interview we did with urban Meyer earlier

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Speaker 1: in the week. We put a little bit of that

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Speaker 1: interview on the previous podcast with him talking about Michael

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Speaker 1: Jordan and that documentary and and what he learned from that.

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Speaker 1: But it's a long interview, and so today on the

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Speaker 1: podcast what We're Gonna do, We're gonna run that interview

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Speaker 1: in its entirety. I think you're really gonna enjoy that

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Speaker 1: urban Meyer talking about some of the great players he's coached,

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Speaker 1: as well as you know, how to kind of foster

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Speaker 1: that winning environment that he's always had on every team

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Speaker 1: he's been around. So I think you guys are really

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Speaker 1: going to enjoy this chat, and we'll we'll follow up

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Speaker 1: on the back side of it. But here's our conversation

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Speaker 1: we had earlier this week with the former Ohio state

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Speaker 1: coach and three time national champ Urban Meyer. One of

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Speaker 1: the things we love to talk about on the Movie

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Speaker 1: Sticks podcast is leadership and team building, and one of

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Speaker 1: our favorite guest guests to have that conversation is with

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Speaker 1: us again today. Three time national champion coach Urban Meyer

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Speaker 1: joins the show. Coach, how are you doing today? I'm

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Speaker 1: doing great and uh, really good to be with you

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Speaker 1: guys again. I really enjoyed last time we're together. Wow,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun to catch up with you.

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Speaker 1: I know this is a different time we're we're living

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Speaker 1: in right now. I want to get to the football

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Speaker 1: thing in just a moment. But I'm just curious if

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Speaker 1: you've been keeping up with this documentary on Michael Jordan.

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Speaker 1: As someone with the reputation as competitive as you are,

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Speaker 1: I'd love to get your feedback on what you've seen

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Speaker 1: from Michael and what you've learned through this documentary. Well,

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Speaker 1: my whole family is measumerized by it, and I think

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Speaker 1: it gets better each week. Uh. I actually just spoke

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Speaker 1: to a college football team. I got another one coming up,

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Speaker 1: and I opened up with that clip and the clip

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Speaker 1: about I'm paraphrase in Michael Jordan's where it was basically

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Speaker 1: the scene was that he rubbed players the wrong way,

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Speaker 1: which I think that's great, uh leaders. I have seen

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Speaker 1: many leaders. Great leaders failed because they're worried about I

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Speaker 1: hate to say it and it sounded harsh, but you're

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Speaker 1: worried about feelings and you know, at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, if you're a leader, you have a job

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Speaker 1: to do, and that's elevate those around you. And Michael

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Speaker 1: Jordan's that's one of the greatest when he said, uh,

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Speaker 1: winning you have to pay a pride. There's a price

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Speaker 1: to winning, and there's a price to leadership. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the greatest from the arguably that one of the

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Speaker 1: greatest players in any sport of all time. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the greatest pieces I've ever seen, and I've already

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Speaker 1: used it. I'm a handful of times. I get chills

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Speaker 1: as I speak about it right now. I mean that

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Speaker 1: that's what they really well done documentary. But I hope

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Speaker 1: people really listen with intent because you can get so

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Speaker 1: much from this interview. I mean, he's awesome. Hey, coach.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I've heard you talk about

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Speaker 1: when it comes to looking uh for players recruits, you

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Speaker 1: said the competitiveness is the number one trade and looking

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Speaker 1: at that, Michael Jordan's documentary. Does that kind of tie

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Speaker 1: everything that you believe in when it comes to can

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Speaker 1: for excellent players. It does. And we have criteria that's

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Speaker 1: set and the number one common denominator of every great athlete,

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Speaker 1: every great coach, every great person in corporate America, every

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Speaker 1: great military leader, is the competitive spirit. It's called elite

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Speaker 1: competitive spirit, you know. And unfortunately, you look up the

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Speaker 1: word competitor in the English in the dictionary and it

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Speaker 1: says a person who takes part in an athletic event.

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Speaker 1: I cannot disagree with that more. That's not a competitor,

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Speaker 1: that's a participant, which is fine, and that's where people

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Speaker 1: understand that's the majority of people that walk the planet

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Speaker 1: are participants. However, when you start talking about the Michael

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Speaker 1: Jordan's or the High State Buckeyes, New England Patriots, Alabama

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Speaker 1: Cripts and time, you know, we're talking about ordinary, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about elite coach. When you when you look at

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Speaker 1: those teams, and we'll get the football here in just

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Speaker 1: a second, but I'm kind of fascinated by how the

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Speaker 1: personnel changed on those teams, but the personality, I guess

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Speaker 1: uh stayed the same. I think that speaks to kind

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Speaker 1: of their core values there. But how do you know,

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Speaker 1: it's one thing to get to the mountaintop, as you've done,

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Speaker 1: but to stay there as that team did, as the

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Speaker 1: teams that you were a part of did. What was

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Speaker 1: the key to maintaining that level of success. See if

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I agree that I did a

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Speaker 1: great job at that, I think we I look at

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Speaker 1: what we've done now that I've had time. As we

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Speaker 1: were builders, you know, we took four programs that within

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Speaker 1: the first year immediate turnaround and you know, just getting

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Speaker 1: a buy in from the people. But as Lou Holts

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Speaker 1: used to see, it takes passing energy and focus to

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Speaker 1: climb the mountain. Once you're at the top of the

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Speaker 1: mountain is nothing but exhaustion. I mean, it's all arrows

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Speaker 1: are pointed at you. And I think, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think Coach Belichick is probably the best of all time

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Speaker 1: maintaining elite program I think Nick Sabit you know, I've

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Speaker 1: told him that and I just watched, you know, every year.

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Speaker 1: He's one of the best I've ever seen as far

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Speaker 1: as not just building but maintaining a uh elite culture.

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Speaker 1: To say that that was one of my straights. I

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Speaker 1: think we did to a degree. You know, it'll have state.

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Speaker 1: I think we averaged twelve ones a year but only

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Speaker 1: won one national title. And uh so I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's very difficult to maintain and keep

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Speaker 1: that elite. Joe Madden, I real quick. Joe Madden when

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Speaker 1: they won the World Series in two thousand and sixteen.

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Speaker 1: He's a friend of mine. We're sitting in his office

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Speaker 1: and he were talking about how hard it is to repeat.

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Speaker 1: And I could share three times at least twice, we

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Speaker 1: have the number one team in America coming back, and

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Speaker 1: he said, everybody changes. It's so hard to repeat. A

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, when you go through all the sports,

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Speaker 1: the major sports, the opportunity or the people that repeat,

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Speaker 1: it's a miniscule number. Very few ever repeat because everybody,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's just the way humans are. We change,

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Speaker 1: you know. And thinking about that, so then it speaks

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Speaker 1: to uh, somewhere along the line, you have to deal

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Speaker 1: with adversity, And so you talk about being a program builder.

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Speaker 1: What have you learned about help teams overcome adversity so

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Speaker 1: they can get to the mountain top. Well, I've been

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Speaker 1: talking about this lately and it's there's a huge difference

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Speaker 1: between motivation and inspiration. Motivation is something that's a and

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Speaker 1: this is just me speaking. There might be some disagreements

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Speaker 1: out there. Motivation is a tool in the toolbox. It's

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Speaker 1: something that's very powerful yet non sustainable. And the qualities

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Speaker 1: of motivation are love, fear, and hate. And as a coach,

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Speaker 1: for example, fourth down and one against the rival and overtime,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna use them all. I'm looking for just a

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Speaker 1: short burst uh immediate uh uh ounce of energy that

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Speaker 1: can get us through this. And I'm gonna use everything.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get them to love me. I might get

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Speaker 1: them to hate me, I might threaten our scholarship by

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Speaker 1: the fear. Yet it's those are all nonsense. You know,

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Speaker 1: love or fear and hate are non sustainable. However, motivation

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Speaker 1: or inspiration is all about sustainability. It's transformational. And the

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Speaker 1: two qualities of inspiration or love and ownership. And so

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Speaker 1: you talk about how do you overcome adversity. In my mind,

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Speaker 1: there's only one way. You better own it, and you

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Speaker 1: better love each other or you're gonna fail, and and

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Speaker 1: all the other things. You know, I just got done

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Speaker 1: talk of the team you know, a team comes out

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Speaker 1: in a new black helmet and boys they're excited about

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Speaker 1: the new uniforms, or they're you know, throwback uniforms, or

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Speaker 1: the crowd gets behind them and they're playing off. That's

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Speaker 1: a motivated team that's not sustainable, that's at some point

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Speaker 1: that's going to fail. Uh. The inspired team, the team

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Speaker 1: that owns it and they love each other. Those are

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Speaker 1: the ones you don't want to play because you're in

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Speaker 1: for it a for a four quarter battle. Coach, you

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Speaker 1: talk about inspirational. I'd get a chance to see a

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Speaker 1: little bit of the special on Alex Smith and all

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Speaker 1: that he's been working through and over trying to overcome

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Speaker 1: and just a gruesome injury. Obviously, your time together, you

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Speaker 1: know him well, you know what makes him tick. Um,

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Speaker 1: just your thoughts on what he's been through and just

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Speaker 1: your belief in him that he's going to come on

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Speaker 1: the other side of this thing. Yeah. I I am

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Speaker 1: almost embarrassed to say. As much as I love Alex

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Speaker 1: and as close as we are, I didn't know the

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Speaker 1: extent And he's a private person. His wife is incredible. Um,

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Speaker 1: his mom and dad are very close with him. Actually

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Speaker 1: went back and forth with him after that, I had

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Speaker 1: no idea. Came down to the doctors saying we're in

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Speaker 1: life saving mode than lake saving mode. I never I

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Speaker 1: heard it was bad and we texted, I called him,

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Speaker 1: but he's a very private guy. But that's a testimony

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Speaker 1: to first his mom and dad are educators and they're

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Speaker 1: great family. But one of the key things that all

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Speaker 1: let's stick out of me for the rest of my

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Speaker 1: life with Alex is that last part of that show

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Speaker 1: where they showed him running around with his family and

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Speaker 1: he talked to with Elizabeth, his wife, and he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're blessed beyond even as he's fighting for

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Speaker 1: his life. So that's Alex Smith. He's one of the

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Speaker 1: toughest human beings I've been around, the most competitive human

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Speaker 1: being I ever been around. Him and Tebow and JT. Barrett,

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Speaker 1: those guys are up there. But he also got a

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Speaker 1: heart of gold and he's he's you know, strong in

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Speaker 1: his faith, and he he's a he has a sense

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Speaker 1: of purpose. That's what Alex is all about. You know, Coach,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned some great quarterbacks there, Alex and j. T.

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Speaker 1: Burried and Tim Tebow, and you talked about those trades, competitiveness,

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Speaker 1: and toughness, And I think sometimes when we look at quarterbacks,

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Speaker 1: we don't place enough value on toughness. When you're evaluating quarterbacks,

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Speaker 1: how can you determine if they have the right toughness,

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Speaker 1: the right stuff inside to be the leader of the

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Speaker 1: team and really a winner. Well, that's a great I

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Speaker 1: agree with. How do how do so many people make mistakes?

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Speaker 1: Me included and in the NFL when you have all

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Speaker 1: that time and resources, how do you Well, he gets

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Speaker 1: enamored by how the guy throws the ball well. I

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Speaker 1: got news that's a lot of people throw the ball well.

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Speaker 1: What throwing the ball well is not make is does

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Speaker 1: not make Tom Brady Tom Brady, Drew Brees. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: reason he the way is is not because he throws

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Speaker 1: the ball well and the rivers guy. Uh, he actually

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Speaker 1: does it throw it's an awkward throwing motion. But he's

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Speaker 1: a tough, tough guy, and he's a leader and he's

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Speaker 1: a competitor. So uh, the older I got we made

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Speaker 1: very few mistakes on quarterbacks and as because we had

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Speaker 1: set criteria that I would not we would not take

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Speaker 1: you if you didn't fit our criteria. And how do

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Speaker 1: you evaluate toughness? I love the guy like Joe Burrow.

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Speaker 1: I know he had all his success after he left us,

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Speaker 1: but he was unrecruited. But we took him because of basketball.

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Speaker 1: He was a maniac, competitor, toughest nails, under recruited and

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Speaker 1: we say let's take him. J T. Barrott is the

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Speaker 1: most glorified, uh, most accomplished quarterback in the Big Ten. Why. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's a little underside. He doesn't have the greatest of arm,

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Speaker 1: but he's tough and he's competitor, and toughness is not

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Speaker 1: that hard to identify if you really do your homework coach,

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Speaker 1: and you talk about the toughness at that position. Is

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Speaker 1: also just the time, commitment and the the energy it

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Speaker 1: takes to be successful at that position. When we you know,

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Speaker 1: you give a quarterback and assignment need to watch this tape,

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Speaker 1: that tape, do this work, they do it. How do

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Speaker 1: you go about figuring out what they're doing aside from

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Speaker 1: the things they're asked to do with such a time

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Speaker 1: consuming position. Yeah, it's rather obvious. You know, there's an

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Speaker 1: n c A rule that says you can only spend

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Speaker 1: twenty hours per week with your players, and every year

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Speaker 1: I would remind them constantly. If you're spending twenty hours

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Speaker 1: a week, especially at quarterback, you're gonna be a very

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Speaker 1: bad player at this level. You will not survive. You know,

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Speaker 1: I know the n c A mandates you can only

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Speaker 1: spend twenty hours, and that's with coaches. You need to

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Speaker 1: at least double that. You know that means film work

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Speaker 1: on your own or or I guess I just actually

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Speaker 1: share this with my daughter. Uh Kobe Bryant quote that

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Speaker 1: if your habits don't reflect your dreams and goals and

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Speaker 1: then change your habits. That's too easy. I always say

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Speaker 1: change your dreams and goals because you're never gonna make it.

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Speaker 1: I want to be an All Big ten quarterback. I

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Speaker 1: want to be a first round draft pick. And I

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Speaker 1: think just honest, transparent conversation with them saying you have

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Speaker 1: no chance with the current habits you have. If you

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Speaker 1: are worried about spending twenty hours a week at a

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Speaker 1: major college being a quarterback, I can help you. You're

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Speaker 1: probably very bad at your skill. You know you're not

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Speaker 1: a good quarterback because you're not willing to spend that

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Speaker 1: inorder amount of time to be great at a very

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Speaker 1: difficult position. Coach, there's a lot of criticism that comes

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Speaker 1: with quarterbacks, and one of your quarterbacks, Dwayne Haskins, is

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Speaker 1: undergoing some criticism. What is it about Dwayne Haskins that

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Speaker 1: you believe that would eventually let him get on the

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Speaker 1: other side and be very successful at the next level.

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Speaker 1: I hate to be so simplistic on this, but you

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Speaker 1: better surround them with some really good players, you know.

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Speaker 1: It's the NFL is amazing to me is that the

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Speaker 1: minute of team they draft a quarterback, they put them

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Speaker 1: on a very bad team or there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of culture issues, which I you know, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to start throwing stones because you know, but I do know.

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Speaker 1: I talked to my guys. I talked to a lot

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Speaker 1: of these players, and you know, so it's a quarterback's fault.

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Speaker 1: Now that they their coach got fired after what week

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Speaker 1: three or four? They were in completely disarray, and it's

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Speaker 1: a quarterback's fault. Now, you know, I wish college was

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Speaker 1: that easy. For some reason. It's not the quarterback's fault.

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Speaker 1: It's a coach's fault. You know. But that to me,

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Speaker 1: it's about culture and leadership. You want Dwayne to be

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Speaker 1: a great UH player. Strano, what's some really good Toronto

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Speaker 1: with a really elite culture. Uh. Why is the New

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Speaker 1: England Patriots? They there's teams in the NFL that have

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Speaker 1: far greater players than what they have to because they

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Speaker 1: draft every year ahead of them. So on paper, there's

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Speaker 1: teams have been draft ahead of the New England Patriots

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Speaker 1: for fifteen years, yet they can't beat them. What's so

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Speaker 1: they're bad players? Now there's something else there. It's called

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Speaker 1: an elite culture, elite Uh, leadership. They don't have that.

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Speaker 1: There's something wrong with the organization. And so Dwayne's gonna

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Speaker 1: be You want Dwayne to be great, put a lot

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Speaker 1: of greatness around them. That that's the one common denominator

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Speaker 1: of all great quarterbacks. They have great players around them,

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Speaker 1: no doubt, Coach, you want one of the other positions

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Speaker 1: that we can go through a list of just about

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Speaker 1: every position where Ohio State is been Let me let

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Speaker 1: me interrupt you, guys, real fast ahead. Let me interrupt you.

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Speaker 1: Why why is that that hard to figure out? You know? Why? Why?

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Speaker 1: Why is it? Why? I'm just curious that you guys

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Speaker 1: are obviously great at what you do? Why so, Duyne?

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Speaker 1: So it's the quarterback's fault, you know? Never mind the

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Speaker 1: fact that their coach got fired. The places a mess.

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Speaker 1: There's this going on, this going on, this going on.

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Speaker 1: You know a lot of stuff that I heard from

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes, because once again I have several players there.

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Speaker 1: You know it's Dwayne's fault or you know some other

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Speaker 1: great quarterback that went on. I'm more. You know Joe Burrow.

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Speaker 1: He's at the Cincinnati Bengals now and they were two

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Speaker 1: and fourteen last year. I'm a Bengals fan from there.

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Speaker 1: But you wont to how Joe Burrow is gonna become

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Speaker 1: great Sronto. With a great culture, with a great leadership

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Speaker 1: and some great players, you'll be great. If not, he won't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we've talked about coach, not just the culture, but

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Speaker 1: when you kind of look at the young quarterbacks in

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Speaker 1: the league and look at a guy like Jared Goff

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Speaker 1: who was kind of given up for dead um. And

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Speaker 1: then we've talked about the three piece. So you have

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Speaker 1: the culture aspect of it, that's one side of it,

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Speaker 1: but then the three piece with play callers, protection, playmakers,

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Speaker 1: Like if you don't check all three of those boxes,

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Speaker 1: especially with a young quarterback man, you're not giving him

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Speaker 1: a chance at all. And it's not a mystery when

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Speaker 1: you see these guys take the leap. If you look

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Speaker 1: at guys, if you look at Lamar Jackson and what

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Speaker 1: he's been able to accomplish, and look at Patrick Mahomes,

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Speaker 1: look at the culture. But then look at the protection

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Speaker 1: they have, the play callers they have, and the playmakers

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Speaker 1: that they have. It's not it's not a secret formula.

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Speaker 1: I love that I agree with. And look at Alex Smith.

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Speaker 1: Alex Smith, I was told he was a bust in

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Speaker 1: the NFL because he was with a really bad team

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Speaker 1: that was really struggling as an organization. I remember looking

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Speaker 1: it up. They were like in the bottom five and

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Speaker 1: defense bottom five and offense. They were terrible, turnovers, terrible everything.

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Speaker 1: And Alex Smith's a bust. And then he goes with

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Speaker 1: a guy like Andy Reid and he excels. You know,

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Speaker 1: so I just I would love I think you guys.

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Speaker 1: You know, I just now that I'm actually on television

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Speaker 1: now and I try to get that message across to

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Speaker 1: so many people. Quit blaming the dark player. You know.

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Speaker 1: Also now he's a bad player. The guy through fifty

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Speaker 1: touchdown passes at a house staying a very competitive conference

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Speaker 1: and uh, he can. You know, obviously he's a great player.

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Speaker 1: It's what's around me, you know, coach and going about

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Speaker 1: the thinking about the NFL. Uh, we always build teams

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Speaker 1: with quarterbacks and pass rushers. And you've been surrounded but

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Speaker 1: some great pass rushers throughout your time. What are the

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Speaker 1: court traits that you look for when you're evaluating the position, Oh,

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Speaker 1: pass rusher, We've had, you know, going all the way

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Speaker 1: back to John Simon to Jail and Holmes, Sam Hubbard,

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Speaker 1: Tayklon Lewis, Bosa Bosa and then Chase Young and you

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Speaker 1: just first thing you always look for is just the gift.

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Speaker 1: You know, you gotta run, you know, you've gotta be tall, angular.

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Speaker 1: Those are the ideal guys. I know there's been others,

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Speaker 1: but that's what we look for. And then as all

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Speaker 1: other positions, is the competitive freak his pass rushing on

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Speaker 1: the body. That's one of the hardest things, for the

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Speaker 1: most fatiguing things a human being can do. And you

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Speaker 1: see a lot of great pass rushers get very average

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Speaker 1: during the course of the drive because of fatigue. You

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Speaker 1: see great pass rushers get very average during the course

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Speaker 1: of a game because of fatigue. So we look for

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Speaker 1: obviously the god gift skills. You know, you want a

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Speaker 1: guy that can turn power to speed and speed to power.

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Speaker 1: That means if he's bull rushing and the guy sets

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Speaker 1: on him, he could turn out to speed. Move right now,

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Speaker 1: if you guys sits back on him, he could be

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Speaker 1: speedboat and then also be a bull rusher. So speed

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Speaker 1: to power, power to speed number one, size length and

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Speaker 1: then most importantly a competitive animal. A guy Nick Bosa.

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Speaker 1: You know he is very gifted. But you want to

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Speaker 1: know what makes Nick Bosa nick Bosa? He you have

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Speaker 1: to shoot him to stop him. He's a guy that

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Speaker 1: will not stop. Of all the three Joey, Nick and Chase,

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Speaker 1: you know I loved all three of them and the

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Speaker 1: other guys, Nick Boss, you know you have to really

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Speaker 1: shoot that guy to stop him. That's what makes him great. Coach.

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Speaker 1: I remember being down there on the field before the

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Speaker 1: Cotton Bowl against SC and I don't know that I've

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Speaker 1: seen a player, singular player dominate a football game even

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Speaker 1: when he wasn't even when the production wasn't there. There

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Speaker 1: was so much disruption, there was so much attention going

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Speaker 1: to him. Uh, it makes life easier for everybody else

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Speaker 1: that's playing around you. When you look at the corners

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Speaker 1: you put out coach. We we've talked about this a

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Speaker 1: bunch on our podcast, but just kind of the main

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Speaker 1: the main schools that have been producing corners. When you

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Speaker 1: look at Ohio State, Uh, you look at l s U,

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Speaker 1: you look at Alabama, and not only you getting great

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Speaker 1: coaches at those programs with you guys, but also we

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Speaker 1: believe there's something to the fact that you're playing against

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Speaker 1: NFL wide receivers every single day and practice, so these

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Speaker 1: guys are more prepared when they get to the next level.

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Speaker 1: I just love to get your philosophy on what you

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Speaker 1: look for in corners and and how much you believe

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Speaker 1: that iron sharpens iron has helped those guys at those schools. Well,

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Speaker 1: the same quality as we talked about before. Number one

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Speaker 1: is competitor, toughness, UH, leadership, intelligence and UH adaptability. But

426
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,879
Speaker 1: with a corner, UH, you're looking for a guy that

427
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 1: can play man coverage. Let's not fool ourselves that I've

428
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 1: never had an NFL scout or head coach come and say, hey,

429
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: we're looking for the best zone coverage corner we could find.

430
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: And I remember Bob Stoopsone told me this when he

431
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 1: was at Kansas State. He said, this is well before

432
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: a lot of people are playing man coverage. And I

433
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: was an assistant coach and I just talked to him.

434
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 1: They were ninety nine per said man. And he said,

435
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 1: you know, we recruit demand. Kids want to play man.

436
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 1: That's why we get these great corners. And the kids

437
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 1: get off the bus playing man. They go to sleep

438
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 1: playing man coverage. And that was our I know we've

439
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 1: changed a little bit because you have to. You know,

440
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: that hurt us at times a little bit near the

441
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: end because we played so much man coverage, the crossing routes, etcetera.

442
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,360
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, you know, like

443
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 1: I said, that every corner we've had, I think six

444
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 1: or seven first rounder is the reason why, because they

445
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: can play man coverage and that at the end of

446
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 1: the day, can you go not one guy, maybe that's

447
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 1: a new Hey, I'm looking for a good cover three corner.

448
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: Never heard that before in my life. I want to see,

449
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: can a guy play man demand on the number two

450
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 1: or number one receiver? That's every question. So we took

451
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: that to heart and we trained our guys every day

452
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: to play man coverage. Coach, I'm looking at my notes here,

453
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,119
Speaker 1: and I have competitiveness over and over, competitive animal, competitive freak,

454
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: all of those things. But then it comes down to

455
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 1: getting gas to play hard. What has been the one

456
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 1: thing that's enabled you to motivate or inspire your teams

457
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: to play harder than the other team, because that's really

458
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: the biggest determined in fact and who wins games. You know,

459
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 1: back in what was the two thousand and one I

460
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 1: got hired actually December two thousand and two thousand, I

461
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: got hired at Bowling Green, and I got hired from

462
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: Notre Dame and Notre Dame Will worked for Lou Holtz

463
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: and Bob Davy, and I remember lou Holtz was like

464
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: an encyclopedia and he would talk to me about the

465
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: plan to win, and you know, what's the culture look like,

466
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 1: and a little bit of trial and error. But my

467
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,880
Speaker 1: dream was always to have a team that was fearless.

468
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: You know, I've heard coaches say that don't make mistakes. Well,

469
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: I got news, you're gonna make a bunch of mistakes

470
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: during the course of the game. I got something better.

471
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: How about this effort. Effort overcomes mistake a percent of

472
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: the time. And you if you don't believe that, then

473
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,479
Speaker 1: then that's fine. I believe that. I believe at the end,

474
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: in my thirty three years of coaching, I've never been

475
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 1: on a team that if they played harder than their opponent,

476
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,239
Speaker 1: they didn't win. I really believe that, and I did

477
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: a good job again that across our players. The hell

478
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: with making a mistake, man, you're going to make a

479
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: bunch of them. You want to know what overcomes a mistake.

480
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: You're going like your hair is on fire. We just

481
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: call it four to six A to B. Four to

482
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: six seconds is length with the play. There's always a

483
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: point A and a finished point b uh during a game,

484
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: and wherever you start to make sure between A and

485
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 1: B you're going a million miles an hour. So we

486
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 1: believed effort overcome mistakes. I wanted fearlessness. I wanted you know,

487
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: there's times where people criticize us because we have penalties,

488
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: and I would often tell me, I, don't you know,

489
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: silly penalties of course, but that doesn't mean you're lack

490
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: of discipline. Because you have a penalty, that means you're

491
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: Football is a violent, hard game where you're playing very hard.

492
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: You're playing so fast that you're fearless, you're gonna have

493
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: a penalty. I had no problem with that, and so

494
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: it's just, you know, that's just a culture that I've

495
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: always believed. Coach, last question from me, and you've been

496
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 1: so generous with your time. We do appreciate it. Um,

497
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: there's unprecedented obstacles right now for coaches and for programs

498
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: at the college level in the NFL level. But with

499
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: those obstacles also there's some opportunities there if you put

500
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: your head coaching hat on at the NFL level or

501
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: the college level. What opportunities do you see that exist

502
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: right now in this unique time that we're living in. Well, adversity,

503
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 1: when adversity strikes, which we are at adversity, when you

504
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: lose a Nick Bosa. We lost Nick Bosa one year,

505
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: he didn't play the whole season, and we still want

506
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: thirteen and one that went to the Rose Bowl. When

507
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 1: when adversity strikes, that's when leadership and culture get exposed.

508
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: And in corporate America, at the end of this virus,

509
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: whenever this is you're going to see companies that are bankrupted.

510
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: You're gonna see organizations that fall apart and stop because

511
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: they have you know, bad they're selling default equipment or whatever.

512
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: It's because they had a tough culture and tough leadership

513
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: that didn't survive it. You're gonna see college football. Some

514
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: teams are going to blossom from this. Some teams will

515
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: come out stronger than they've ever been. Other teams will fold.

516
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 1: And it's not because of talent. It's because of culture

517
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: and leader. What is your culture of your organization and

518
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: how strong is your leadership? And I got just something

519
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: to add about that. If you can't tell me your culture,

520
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: then you don't have one. And I challenge coaches all

521
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: the time before I speak to the team or their staff,

522
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: or even in corporate America, if I've given a speech,

523
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: I'll say, well, tell me what your culture is, and

524
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 1: I can tell if it's crickets or they start getting nervous.

525
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: I often help him and say, you don't have one

526
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: because if your employees or that, you know, if your

527
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: players can't tell us what's expected, you have no culture.

528
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: You know it's you can say it's important, but you

529
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: don't have one. Coach that's been fantastic. Man, I can't

530
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: thank you enough for your time. I know you're busy,

531
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: but it's all as always is so great to catch

532
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: up with you. I hope you and your family are

533
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: safe and we'll see you soon. So the second one,

534
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: when I saw you guys coming up on the calendar,

535
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: I was really excited. I think you guys are awesome.

536
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: I love your stuff all right, Black Well, it was fun. Man.

537
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: We've got a chance to visit with Coach a couple

538
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: of times there. Do appreciate the nice things he said

539
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: about us. I think that, um, he enjoys talking about

540
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: this stuff. It's not just kind of the who do

541
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: they play, who's gonna win? Who do you like? It's

542
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: more about that conversation that we have on the podcast,

543
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: which is how do you properly build a team and

544
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: what to look for? Yeah, so it's so cool to

545
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: hear him talk about it. He's been so successful. He

546
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: is really the turnaround specialists. And when I listened to him, man,

547
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to imagine that he's never going

548
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: to coach again because he has so much to offer

549
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: in that world. And I know he's kind of turned

550
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: and directed his pursuits to kind of teaching corporate people

551
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: in other teams how to kind of building and create

552
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: an established cultures. But man, he is so inspirational and

553
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: he's so together when it comes to establishing and identifying

554
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: what culture is and what it needs to be. I

555
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: just can't imagine him just kind of I don't see

556
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: wasting his talents, but keeping those talents to himself. So

557
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: here here's the question I have for you. And we

558
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: have never talked about this before, but in terms of

559
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: multiple ways to get to the finish line, I think

560
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: of urban Meyer and I would put him in that

561
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's classification of intensity, right, But I think on

562
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: the other side of it, and you look at Dabbo

563
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: Sweeney and you look at Pete Carroll, which is more energy,

564
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: I would say, so you have intensity on one side

565
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: and energy on the other. Now, obviously the intense guys

566
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: have some energy and the energy guys have some intensity.

567
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: But I would say if you they majored, you would say,

568
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, Urban Meyer, Michael Jordan major in intensity, Dabbo

569
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: and Pete major and energy. U. I just like to

570
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 1: get your take on that, buck. How how there's two

571
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: different a little bit different ways of going about trying

572
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: to get the same thing. Yeah, I think when you

573
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: talk about Irban Meyer and Michael Jordan's uh majoring in intensity.

574
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: I think intensity is draining, and I think what happens

575
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: is not necessarily that it is fear based, but it's

576
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: more I would say it's more negative than positive. And

577
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 1: I think that negative energy harping on it, grinding on

578
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: your teammates, grinding on your coaches and everyone around the program.

579
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: I think that wears you down. And I think because

580
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: of that, I don't think it's a coincidence that Michael

581
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: Jordan and Urban both have had to step away after

582
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: notable accomplishments, whereas with Pete Carroll and Debbo Swiney, because

583
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: it appears to be more energy, more inspirational, more encouraging.

584
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: I think they feed off of their successes and seeing

585
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: if they can do it all over again and so um.

586
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: Because of that, I think there's a level of stain sustainability. UM.

587
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: I think they're able to kind of endure some of

588
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: those moments because maybe they viewed the glass as half

589
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: full as opposed to half empty, and that allows them

590
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: to continue to do it year after year after year.

591
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: And I think something that Urban talked about, he said, look,

592
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 1: we were great at building it and turning it around.

593
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: Not necessarily as great as sustaining it. He said he

594
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily have that formula that recipe. Um, it might

595
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: be just the way that he is built in terms

596
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: of his intensity makes it just hard to sustain it

597
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: over a long period of time. Yeah. I think you know,

598
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: you put coach Saban probably on that urban Myer side

599
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: and right with how they go by, uh doing their business.

600
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: I would say the thing that connects him, though with

601
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit different approach, is that it enables

602
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: you to get the best out of everyone else around you,

603
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: you know, And so we talked about I would say

604
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: that phrase match you gotta match my intensity, right, but

605
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: you also hear you gotta match my energy. You hear

606
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: that same phrase you used with two different words. And

607
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: I think that's the secret sauce there is that when

608
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: you have somebody with that incredible energy or that incredible intensity,

609
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: and you get everybody else that's around you to try

610
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: and match that level, that's the secret sauce. Yeah. And

611
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: I think the other thing is really really apparent uh

612
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: with coach Meyer. Um, he is a very clear understanding

613
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: of who he is, what he wants from his program,

614
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: how he wants his program to look, how the people

615
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: involved in the program have to be wired. And I

616
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: think that is something that's very very common with all

617
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: the coaches that we've talked to about team building, the

618
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: ones who have been in it for a long time,

619
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: who have sustained a high level of success, they hate

620
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: They have a very clear picture for how the program

621
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: should be and they don't deviate from what that vision is. Yeah,

622
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: and I almost was thinking about it. If you look

623
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: at it philosophically. Again, it's fascinating to me just these

624
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: two different mindsets. I would think if you were playing

625
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: for Dabbo Sweeney, right, you cannot wait for practice to start.

626
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: If you're planning for urban Meyer, almost wonder if you

627
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: can't wait for practice to end. Does that make sense? Yeah,

628
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: but I mean you're both going to be successful. It's both.

629
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: It's proven on both sides. It works. But I think

630
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: you used the word like exhausting, like, man, that would

631
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: be kind of exhausting. Yeah, I think it would. It

632
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: would be exhausting. However, I would give him credit because

633
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: I think the level of success that Ohio State has

634
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: had after he left is really a testament to the

635
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: way that he built the program. And maybe Ryan Day

636
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: is a little different. He's been able to take those

637
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: positive things in the program and add to it and

638
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: haven't talked run day and haven't been around him a

639
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: little bit like Man, he also has a very clear

640
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: picture for how uh that program should be built and

641
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: sustained and operate. And the machine that is the Ohio

642
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: State University football program is magnificent. And in the conversations

643
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: when he talks about the positions the past rushers, the cornerbacks,

644
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: the success that they've had with quarterbacks, Um, they just

645
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: have it Man, And we could talk about the recruiting,

646
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: but I would say it's the development. They developed five

647
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: star players and they really really max them out into

648
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: three or four years that they're there. Yeah. I love

649
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: the conversation too on the cornerbacks. You know when he

650
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: talked about the fact that we we tell kids you

651
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: come here, you're gonna play man. We're gonna play you

652
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: a man coverage, and that to me is what makes

653
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: the transition so much smoother for a lot of these

654
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: Ohio State corners than for some of these other programs.

655
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: But if you look at primarily the premier teams, there's

656
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: only so many corners that come out every year out

657
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: of high school that are physically gifted enough where you

658
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: can leave them alone, let them play man coverage, you know.

659
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: So there's a finite number of those guys and they

660
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: end up going to the same schools l s U, Alabama,

661
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: Ohio State eight, so they go there knowing they can

662
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: play man coverage. You know. The one that I would say,

663
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: UH is interesting is if you look at kind of

664
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: programs around the country Utah, Utah has been able to

665
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: find those type of guys. But I think they've done

666
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: a really good job of kind of taking those raw

667
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: kids and developing them and putting them in a situation

668
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: where they can play so much. Man. It's interesting that

669
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: you brought it up with Utah because we've seen in

670
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: the last couple of years they've had a number of

671
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: guys that have gone on to the National Football League,

672
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: and the number of corners and dbs that they've had

673
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: UH in the past fow years, including this year, is

674
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: really remarkable. But you're right about Utah and a development plan. UM.

675
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: I think you have to really understand where you are

676
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: you're stationed in life as a program and know where

677
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: you kind of have to fish. Um, whether you if

678
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: you're Ohio State. You can fish in a find a

679
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: pond and know that you can get all the blue

680
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: chip players. But if you're Utah, you have to kind

681
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: of fish in the ocean, find some of those uh

682
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: mentos that are out there and see if you can

683
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: develop them. And they've done a really good job of

684
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: developing those players. But there is something to playing man

685
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: to man coverage at the collegiate level and having guys

686
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: who can teach you, because when you can teach you successfully,

687
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: those are the players they go on to the National

688
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: Football League can have a lot of success. Yeah, I

689
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: want to kind of put a bowl on that with

690
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: with urban Meyer, Buck and and the other world, I

691
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: would say is that if you're trying to find the

692
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: different ways of doing things, the things that they have

693
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: in common, I mean, he just you you mentioned it

694
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: during the interview competitive competitive, competitive, Like that word comes

695
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: up with urban Meyer over and over and over again,

696
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: and you want to try and do both, right, You

697
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: want to try and recruit competitive kids, but then you

698
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: want to create a competitive environment for them where that

699
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: can even continue to grow and build upon what they

700
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: already had kind of intrinsically there. So to me that

701
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: if you look at the peak Carrol's of Dabo Sweeney's,

702
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: the Urban Meyers, and Nick Sabans. I think the competitiveness

703
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: is something that pulls them all together. You know. DJ

704
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: is so is interesting because I go and I look

705
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: at the book, the diary that I've kept with all

706
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: the coaches, interviews, and the things that they've shared, UM.

707
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: The common denominator, UH, competitiveness, And they all speak about toughness.

708
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: They all those words are intertwined in every conversation. We

709
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: want guys that are competitive, they love winning, that to

710
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: do everything that it takes to win. They want to

711
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: know where they stand each and every day. They don't

712
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: mind having to earn their spots, and they have to

713
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 1: have a level of toughness, not only physical but mental toughness.

714
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: Are they disciplined enough to endure all the things that

715
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: we ask them to do? Do they have the resiliency

716
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: to bounce back from difficult moments? Are they wired the

717
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: right way? And that I mean that is why I

718
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: like when we look at college football, they're six or

719
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: seven programs that are always in the conversation, UH, the

720
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: Tier one programs and everybody else is a notch below.

721
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: But competitiveness and toughness are the common denominators between all

722
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: of those elite programs. One of the things I was thinking,

723
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: it would be great if you're you know, for back

724
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: in It, right, and you're interviewing these kids, you know,

725
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: whether they bring them into the facility at the combine. Now,

726
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 1: who knows in the future could be over zoom right. Um,

727
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: if I if I'm gonna talk to an edge rusher

728
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: from from Clemson. Okay, so I've got addresser coming to

729
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: this next class, he's coming out in the draft. I'm

730
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: gonna call buddy at Clemson and I'm gonna get their

731
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: weekly schedule for for a defensive player. So what they have,

732
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: you know, with weights, what they have with their meetings,

733
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: what they have with practice. And I'm gonna say, I'm

734
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: gonna say, Okay, I want you to walk me through

735
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: your weekly routine. And he's gonna go, Okay, we have

736
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: a meeting, and I'm going WHOA hold up, No, No,

737
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: I got the I got the paper right here like

738
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: this is. I got all your meetings. I know what

739
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: the team asked you to do. I want to know

740
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: what you're doing above and beyond what you've been asked

741
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: to do by your coaching staff and walk me through

742
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: that on a weekly basis. And I think that can

743
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: help you figure out how some of these guys are

744
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: wired and if they are, you know, kind of that

745
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: all in can't get enough type of player that you

746
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 1: want to bring into your building. Yeah, I think two

747
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 1: piggyback on that. Coach Meyer says something about quarterbacks and

748
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: he said, looking, in college football, there's a twenty hour rule.

749
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: But if you're playing quarterback in college football and you're

750
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: only devoting twenty hours, there's no way that you're going

751
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: to be successful. He was like, at a minimum is

752
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: forty and he said, really, it's beyond that. And DJ

753
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: what you talk about in terms of walking walk me

754
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 1: through your routine. I'm gonna tell you a quick story.

755
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: When I was in Green Bay, I just converted from

756
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: wide receiver to defensive back. The defensive back coach name

757
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 1: was Bob Bella sente uh Fritz Shermer, who has Pat

758
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: Shermer's uncle, was the defensive coordinator. And so I'm a

759
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: developmental player in each and every week. Bob Lacente. After

760
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 1: the meeting, he would say, I need you to write

761
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: up your personal game plan for the week. So basically

762
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: what you're asking walked me through. He basically wanted me

763
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: to walk him through how I would play if I

764
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: got an opportunity, so to go through each and every

765
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: coverage and tell them, Hey, this is quarters and quarters

766
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: versus this player, I would play press versus this other player.

767
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna back off and play bill. But what

768
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: he wanted to challenge me to do is really think

769
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: about the game beyond what we do in the meetings

770
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: and be able to articulate it. Because, as you and

771
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: I know, when we're else and we're evaluating guys, there

772
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: are a lot of guys that think they know how

773
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: to do it. But can you tell me how you

774
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: go about the process where I can understand how you

775
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: plan and get ready. That's next level stuff, and those

776
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: next level competitors are the ones that eventually start and

777
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: play at a high level in the league, no doubt.

778
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: I think again, I think you you get better, You

779
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: get better as you get older of figuring out how

780
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: to get to the right answers right then, as so

781
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: much of it is just asking the right questions. We

782
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: can all watch the tape. We can see if a

783
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: guy can run, if he can jump, he can find

784
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: the ball all that stuff, But you look at the misses.

785
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: Nine times out of ten the misses have something to

786
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: do with the makeup and and I think getting the

787
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 1: right questions to get you to the right answers um

788
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: is huge. And I think that's something just scrimmaging this

789
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: stuff with you on this show that we've been doing

790
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: for the last six years, UM, it helps you kind

791
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: of get to those right questions. And I think it's

792
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: something that, uh, you know. That's why I think we

793
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: get a lot of feedback from guys around the league

794
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: that listen to this because we don't come into it

795
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: knowing what we're gonna get out of the answer. We

796
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: just know we're gonna scrimmage this out and sometimes this

797
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: kind of stuff just comes out. Yeah, it's fascinated, But

798
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: I think as you've talked about it, you talked about

799
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: it multiple times in interviewing Coach Meyer. But I think

800
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: this kind of goes for us iron Sharper's iron. And

801
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: so I think what you have to have in any venture,

802
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 1: you have to have people around you that you trust

803
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: that you can have open and honest dialogue that challenge

804
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: you. You You don't want to surround yourself with all yes people,

805
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: and I think with Coach Meyer and building the team,

806
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: I don't want a couple of a level guys and

807
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: in all sees that can't challenge those guys. I want

808
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: every player to know that the people that we bring

809
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: in the next recruiting class, that guy can also take

810
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: your job. And so each and every week you have

811
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: to compete, and if you don't compete, we have no

812
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: problems playing the next guy. That story that he talked

813
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: about with Curtis Grant and a Kwan Ray Kwan Millan

814
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: and Howard, Curtis Grant was kind of a dog great

815
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: Kwan at Millon was the top linebacker coming out, but

816
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,479
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Curtis Grant up the Annie while

817
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: also helping him. That's the kind of relationships that you

818
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: want on championship teams. Yes we're competing, but I'm also

819
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: up and you be at your best. That is ultimately

820
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: a championship standard, no doubt. Well it was fun, man.

821
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation. If you want

822
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: to see the video of the conversation, it'll be up

823
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: on the NFL's YouTube channel, so you can find that

824
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: in its entirety, and while you're there, do yourself a

825
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: favor and check out the high school video that we have. Now,

826
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: this is a question we've asked to so many college

827
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: coaches over the last year when we've had a chance

828
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: to visit with him. Who is the best high school

829
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: football player you have ever seen? And when we've asked

830
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: that question, we've got some fascinating answers. Some guys you'll

831
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: know from the football world. Some other ones are well named,

832
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: well known players from other sports that were phenomenal high

833
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: school football players. And not only is it the stories,

834
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: we've got the high school videos. So we've got the

835
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: highlights of these players, including I'll just give you one

836
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: spoiler there. You want to see Alan Iverson's highlights as

837
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: a high school football player, trust me, you will not

838
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 1: be disappointed. But that video is on the YouTube channel

839
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: as well. Look, it's a fascinating thing. I love that stuff.

840
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: The high school thing has been something that we've worked

841
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: on for a long time. But the names and the highlights,

842
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: you just find yourself mesmeriz looking at the highlights over

843
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: and over again. Uh, the players that make it to

844
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: our league and do great things. Man, they were doing

845
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: great leagues at the lower level. Uh, they just they

846
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: just replicated what they've already done. Yeah, it's fun. It's

847
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: actually led me to some fun ideas to have other

848
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: things we can do with that high school video. We

849
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: all won't spoil it, but it's be on the lookout

850
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: for that. We might be uh introducing some of that

851
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: into the TV show next week. So again, thank you

852
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: guys so much for for hanging with us here. Thanks

853
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: for supporting the TV show. Um again, if you have

854
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: questions or comments, you can hit us up on Apple Podcast.

855
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 1: Just go to the review section, leave us a little

856
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: note there and a review and we'll do our best

857
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: to get those answered. Well, we'll do a Q and

858
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: a episode here pretty soon. We'll just knock out all

859
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: the questions that we've missed on there and uh and

860
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: kind of get those answered for you. So again, check

861
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: out those videos on the YouTube channel also NFL dot

862
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: com slash mts video. You can find the high school

863
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: videos as well as all other stuff there as well.

864
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: So do want to thank you nobille Vin our Junah

865
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: for the work that they've done. Mark. Um, we've got

866
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: Matt Tanton who's helped us with the TV show David

867
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: Singer with the guests. I mean, it's a big team

868
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: of people here that help us get this thing out

869
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: to you. So I hope you guys have enjoyed it

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00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time. Right here on, move

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00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: the sticks.