WEBVTT - Are You My Mother?: How Animal Imprinting Works 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.120 Welcome to you stuff you should know from house stuff 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:12.720 Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.480 Josh Clark. There's Charles Woody, Took Bryant. Get your imprinting 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:21.919 all over me? Stop? Is that? What is that what 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.040 I'm doing? Yeah, you're rubbing your feathers all over me 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.040 a feather duster that I'm tickling you with, bokeing me 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:32.120 with your beak. I'm not your parents, you know that's right? 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:36.280 Thank God. What a weird intro that was. Yeah, that 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:40.760 was a scene. That's called animal imprinting. I'm sure we've 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.239 talked about this before, but is it a scene or 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.440 end scene? Really? Joe ran dazzo to weigh in on 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.000 this one, but now we don't it's and scene. Um 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.720 sure comment. I'm positive we have talked about this, and 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.160 I know we have, but I don't remember the outcome. Well, 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:57.240 it was me saying it's a scene for sure, and 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.960 you're going, sure, that's why we're talking about it again. Okay, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:06.640 it's antsen. So animal imprinting, it's a thing. It is. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:12.080 It's uh in the strictest definition, it is only for birds. Yeah, 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.559 and specific type of birds called precocial birds. Yeah, they're 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.360 very precocial exactly. That means that they hatch out the 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.880 egg and look around and start waddling, and they're like, oh, look, 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.000 this is water. I think I have this weird and 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.039 they urge to get in there and swim, and oh, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.840 here's a little bit of duck food. I think I'll 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.039 eat some of that because I have a drive to 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.880 do that. But what is that wonderful smell? Oh? I 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:43.319 think this might be the duck that gave birth to 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.640 me or laid me as an egg, and now I'm 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:48.920 going to imprint myself on you. It's either that or 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.720 it's a grown human man. Yeah, it can't be anything, 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:57.280 especially with ducks, but especially specifically. Precocial birds have a 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:03.320 process where they form an attachment to a parent, and 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.600 it's been shown over time that that parent doesn't necessarily 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.880 have to be a biological parent. It can not even 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.120 be in the same species. It doesn't even have to 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.799 be a living thing. No, it can be a toy train, yes, 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.519 it can be, or a pair of gum boot yeah. Um. 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:20.799 And humans have known for a very long time about 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:24.240 this process. It just wasn't until like the nineteen hundreds 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:26.880 that we started to get a um a real grip 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.919 on it. But like apparently in UH, there's a Roman 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:37.240 treatise around I guess, like the thirties, in the real thirties, 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.720 I mean like thirty c E. Not no, like thirty 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.600 not the swing in thirties, UM, and it's it basically 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:45.880 says like, if you want to train some wild ducks, 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.640 go get yourself some duck eggs, put them under a 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.919 hen that you have domesticated, and that handle raised those 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:56.480 ducks is their own and they'll be unwild in UH. 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.200 In rural China, back in the day, rice farmers would 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.400 imprint new ducks with a stick so they could then 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:07.119 use that stick to guide them out to their rice 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.720 population where they would eat snails right the rice population. 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.600 So they literally following this stick around like it's their parents. 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.600 So they would lead them to UH to help to 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:19.960 work for them basically, And the whole thing is is 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.960 the stick was what they were introduced to at a 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.880 very specific time in their life, usually within a couple 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:31.240 of hours, and they said, stick, you're my mom. I'm 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.560 gonna follow you everywhere. When you're not around, we're gonna 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.880 freak out. It's so weird. Yeah, it's and and ducks 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.720 are a really great um. They're like a classic example 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:45.240 of imprinting because they're very emotional creatures um, And they 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:49.080 form very strong attachments, and they're very social creatures. So 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:53.680 either they're all those things because they form very strong 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:57.680 imprinted bonds, or they form very strong imprinted bonds because 0:03:57.680 --> 0:03:59.720 of all those things. Yeah, well, I think it's a 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.920 natural selection at work. So that's the that's the at 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.200 the heart of this whole thing is you know, is 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.680 it nature versus nurture? And imprinting is a really great 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.920 natural experiment to investigate the whole thing. And what it 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.600 seems like we found is that it's both that apparently, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:21.520 especially specifically precocial ducks are hardwired to go seek out 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.960 and form an attachment, but depending on what they encounter 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:29.279 at the time e g. Their environment, also known as nurture. UM, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.800 they can form that attachment with a stick or a 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:38.560 toy train or a Nazi. It's very cute actually when 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.080 you think about it, you know, they're just like, love 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.960 me whatever, hand puppet. What was that Dr. Seuss book? 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.719 I think it was Love Me hand Puppet? I think 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.560 it was Are you My Mother? Like Horton makes an 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.880 appearance in it. It's like some animals walking around like 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.440 are you my mother? Yeah, it is pretty said, but 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.679 it's it's basically a doctor who's book about imprinting. Oh cool, 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.760 well you mentioned Nazis, so to me, that's my que 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:12.560 Two segue into the life of Conrad with A. K. Lawrence, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.799 who was Austrian born at the turn of the century 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:22.120 in h three and um. He was big into animals 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:27.200 and he studied regular medicine and then decided this is great. 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.360 Humans are fun, but I'm really into studying animals and 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:34.240 their behaviors. That was his bag, so he became a zoologist. 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:36.400 He did. He got a PhD in nineteen thirty three 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:42.839 and started work alongside Oscar Heinroff, who was a fellow 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.680 scientist with what it was the Austrian or German. I'm 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.200 not sure, he's probably one of the two. Well, so 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.360 Lawrence is working, he's already established himself as a scientist 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.839 when the Nazis come marching into town and one of 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:57.479 the things, yeah, one of the things he had to 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.160 answer four years later when he won the nobe L 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:04.960 Prize for his imprinting work was his um zeal And 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:09.760 enthusiasm basically with which he welcomed the conquering Nazis yea, 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:16.320 and took his ideas about domestication and applied them to 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:22.400 the lens of Nazi theory. Yeah. Race, like Conrad Lawrence 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.719 was a racist in the purest and violist form of 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:31.000 the word. Yes, it's there's no escaping that. No. And 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.320 he uh, he flat out denied even being a party 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.039 member until it was proven, and then he was like, oh, 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.880 I was forgot about that membership, and he very much 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:44.200 tried to to wiggle his way out of that years later, 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:49.039 um by saying, you know, I think what how it 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.000 ends up is he's not the only academic that was 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.680 on the wrong side of history, and he came out 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.080 years later, so like, oh yeah, but I sort of 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.000 got swept up. I didn't really mean it in this way. 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.680 And science has kind of divided. Some people forgave him 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.719 and others did not. Yeah, and it's um, I think 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.880 science as a whole has forgiven him largely, like science 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.320 of the capitals. But there are plenty of scientists out 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.840 there who are like the guy was a Nazi and 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:18.760 he used his theories to help the Nazi regime, Like 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.760 He was a Nazi psychologist in Austria who um was 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:31.080 paid to examine um German Polish uh people, Yes, and 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:35.000 and basically determined that like the the um mating of 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:39.120 a German person and a Polish person produces undesirable offspring. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.360 Well you throw that out into the Nazi void and 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.240 see what they do with that info. Yeah, they're not 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.560 gonna be mating with Polish people. So this guy is 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:51.040 is he was a an evolutionary theorist of a very 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:55.080 brilliant magnitude great zoologist, but also Nazi and a lot 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.680 of people calling a question like the work that he 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.840 produced um, but again, as a whole, science seems to 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.400 have forgiven him for the most part. Yeah, that's a 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.560 that's a great sort of a c o A. It's 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:11.160 more like the more you know type of thing you 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.480 got to make the star exactly. So uh that aside, 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:18.880 Let's get back to his work with Oscar Heinroth Um 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.000 they were contemporaries and heind Roth he was actually the 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.720 first dude, even though he didn't call it imprinting at 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.280 the time. He's the German word, Uh progun is that 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.760 how you say it? Yeah, like an a of the 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:39.120 newmout sort of you that's good, that's sounded Swedish chef. Though, yeah, 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.199 I'll probably get taken a task. But from my memory 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:46.000 of German and college, that's right on the money. So uh, 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.160 Like I said, he didn't call it imprinting at the time, 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.080 but he did study the gray lag geese and found 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.800 out that right out of the egg that they um 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.000 can attach to humans. And it was a big you know, 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.640 although they did in Rome and ancient China, Germans probably 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.520 thought they made it that up discovered it first. UM. 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.800 And another thing that Lawrence is criticized for, aside from 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.360 the Nazi affiliation, was that he was um. He very 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.280 readily made an anthrop what's called an anthropic shift, where 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:21.480 he took his findings about animals and was very eager 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.160 to extrapolate them onto humans as well, which some people 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.520 are like, whoa budd you haven't you haven't shown that 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.000 connection yet? You can't. That hadn't always work, No, but 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:35.080 there there has we'll see, like come to there's a 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.800 there's an understanding that yeah, there's something similar in humans 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.600 and other mammals too, as we'll talk about. Uh. So, 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.120 there was one experiment early on where he took some 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.840 goose eggs and separated them out into the control and 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:54.000 the experimental experimental group, and of course the experimental he 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.000 raised separate from the mother completely. All this sounds gonna 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:00.480 mean too, by the way. Yeah, so all imprinting experience 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:04.480 experiments are about as immoral as they get. Yeah, it's 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.240 like ripping the baby right out of the egg or 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.080 womb away from its mother, right and in saying like 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.079 to see what happens right like here, this gum boot 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.240 is your mother. Try growing up normal and socialized with 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.640 a gum boot for a mom. No, agreed, You know, 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:27.160 almost across the board, these animals, these are immoral, unethical experiments, agreed. 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.520 So the experimental geese only met with him, uh, not 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.520 the goose mom at all. And then eventually, to test 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.280 this out, what he did was he put them, uh, 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.480 he put the groups together, marked them, put him under 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.360 a box, and then basically sort of like the old 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.960 experience like Brady Bunch thing, to see who calls the dog, 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.280 which when the dog will come to He had someone 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:50.960 lift the box. He's on one side of the room, 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:53.080 the gooses on the other, and the ones who he 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.360 had raised came straight to him. Yeah, which all bet 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:58.800 when they lifted that box. It was adorable. A bunch 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.040 of confused duckling sticking around like what was that? Right? 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:09.199 You're my mommy Nazi man, right, the bearded nazis my mom. Uh. 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:14.080 So he finally named it filial filial imprinting. I think 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.840 filial filial imprinting. Yeah, And it's basically exactly what it 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:22.559 sounds like. It's that if you if you imprint, if 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:27.720 you introduced something or yourself to precocial bird at a 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.480 certain stage of development, it will say you're my parents. Yeah. 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:33.960 And he initially called that the critical period, right, is 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.960 the amount of time you had to do that? Yeah? 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:41.440 So he um his studies weren't quite as um like 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.400 well designed his later studies, but he basically said, like 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:49.199 he assumed, probably first ten minutes maybe an hour after 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:53.040 hatching is this critical period. And then he also took 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.120 it a step farther by saying it's irreversible. So once 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.080 once this duckling thinks the gum boot as its mom, 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.800 it's always going to be stuck with that duck until 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.680 you eat it. So Lawrence like really put a lot 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:12.760 out there, and he really moved evolutionary biology ahead to 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:17.679 a degree. Ethology is the field that he helped found. Um. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.359 But we'll talk about some follow up studies that supported 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:45.559 and overturned some of his findings. Right after this, so 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:51.559 chuck Um, Lawrence comes up with filial imprinting right then 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.360 later studies in like the fifties and sixties, especially by 0:12:55.400 --> 0:13:00.199 a guy named Eckhard Hess and Ao Ramsey who a 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:06.680 lab in Maryland specifically dedicated to studying animal imprinting, and 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:11.000 they had really great control conditions and they they really 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:17.120 refined Lawrence's findings. Yeah, and they studied Mallard ducklings again 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.840 with the ducks and um, they found that the most 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.960 sensitive period was thirteen to sixteen hours after hatching, which 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:31.400 was higher more hours than I think Lorenz had found. Correct. Yeah, 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.559 he he headed down to it like three or four hours, 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.560 right tops. Yeah, and this was I guess the ducklings 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:39.520 likes to have a little time to swim around and 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.360 get some food, maybe take a rest, and then they'll 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.000 start getting down to imprinting. Yeah, and he Um, I 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.720 thought this was super interesting. They also found that the 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:52.240 ducklings that had to go like jump through more hurdles 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:56.920 and go through more to find the parent formed a 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.320 stronger attachment. Just kind of makes sense, like you worked 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.200 harder for it. All right. I guess it's like that 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.400 Morrissey song. The more you ignore me, the closer I get. Man, 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.280 he's the best, the best, ye also the worst as 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:13.319 far as like canceling shows and like, I mean, dude, 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.720 cannot like I don't ever completed a full tour. There's 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:22.280 no way. It's like every Morrisey tour. Eventually, if you're 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:23.800 on the end of that tour, you might as well 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:28.360 not even have tickets because you're not gonna be seeing Morrisey. Alright, 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:34.600 that's my little soapbox about morris Finish your tour. That's right, 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.120 you mean I had that happened to us. You had 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:41.840 Morrisey tickets and see, ah was it recently? It was 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.240 in the last like two years. He should call every 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:51.720 tour like the Morrissey potential to potential tour or first 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:56.200 half tour. Uh So back to the ducklings. They also 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.880 found that, um, they would imprint onto little paper machee 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.720 that they made, which is very sweet colored balls, uh 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.600 colored more than the white ones, which is interesting. I 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.360 guess I don't know. They must react to color more. 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.200 Even though the vision wasn't really a part. I thought 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.440 it was just sound. It depends smell and touch. So 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.560 there's a um. There's a PBS Nature special called um 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.800 My Life as a Turkey, and it's about a researcher 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:29.240 who is studying animal imprinting and specifically with turkeys. Turkeys 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:34.720 have astounding vision, yeah, just amazing vision. Like they can spot, like, um, 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:39.040 a screw head from a football field away. That's small. 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.600 How do you know did they say screw head? Right? Well, yeah, 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:44.960 they're known for going and rooting out screw heads at 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.800 far long distances. They just stop point like a pig 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.800 within the truffles, right exactly, That's what turkeys are used for. Um. 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.160 But so turkey has very great vision, so I could 0:15:55.200 --> 0:16:01.360 see color being an environmental cue. Smell, movement, touch. Yeah, 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:05.000 it's a big one al right. So another thing they 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.720 tried that did not work, which I thought was interesting 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.960 is going back even before they hatched and using auditory 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.800 cues in the egg and they found that didn't make 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.200 any difference. But it's a good thing to test. The 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:21.400 guy on the Nature thing though, found the opposite. Really yeah, 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.240 he um, he would talk turkey to the eggs. Oh 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:27.320 I thought he talked turkey once they were born. No, 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.120 he's while they were eggs. He talked turkey to get 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.560 them used to it, right, Yeah, and then that's pretty 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:37.520 good turkey. And then um, after that, uh, when they 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:41.120 were when they were hatched, they he talked turkey again 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.360 to them and apparently they came right over. But smells 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.920 also a big one too. The inside of the egg 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.200 probably smells a lot like the mom. Yeah, you know 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.200 that makes sense. So all these environmental cues add up 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:59.280 to what the what this little hatchling is basically mindlessly 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:03.320 following because again, all of this imprinting stuff has found 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.560 that animals at least are hardwired to go seek out 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.200 and form these these attachments. Yes, and they also found 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.760 that there that critical period was even longer when they 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.480 kept them isolated from birth. So they kept them completely 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.720 socially isolated, they would have up to twenty hours to imprint. 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:34.400 And this caused researcher name, oh boy, uh well, dav Slukan, 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.679 great name. He said, it's actually not a critical period. 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.680 Let's call it a sensitive period, right semantics if you 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.120 ask me. Yeah, but it makes a pretty good point. 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.600 It's basically saying like, this thing is not Yes, it 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:52.320 appears to be hardwired, but it's also malleable in the 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.280 face of nurture, in the face of the environment. It 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:59.400 can be postponed, it can be m altered. Uh, it's 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.960 not sure versus nurture. It's nature and nurture in conjunction 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:07.520 with one another. And so all of this filial imprinting 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.159 that Lawrence first identified and really started systematically studying, and 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.880 that was later carried on in birds um also led 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:21.360 to the discovery that birds also um imprint sexually as 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:26.800 well as fill, and depending on what they attached to 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:32.000 filially they will um. Their sexual attachments or sexual preferences 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:36.040 will also be altered later on in life. So, in 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.840 other words, a bird that is raised by a human 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.199 will eventually try and mate with humans, even in the 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:48.480 presence of other birds of that species. Crazy. Yes, And 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:54.639 the reason why they think is because um, the bird 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:58.760 is basically identifying with what it's taking as its own species. Right, 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.240 So it will say a, well, my parent is a human, 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:06.080 ergo I must be a human, and therefore I want 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.879 to get with a human. It's a very confused bird, right, 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.359 But there's something that they've also found that refines this 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.560 whole thing even further, and that is that sexual imprinting 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.720 is basically blocked. They're sexually blind, is what they call it, 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:25.159 to the person that raised them. So while they might 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:27.240 be attracted to humans, they're not going to be attracted 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:31.000 their human parent. And there's actually something which, um, we 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:35.000 should do an incest episode. I should, Um, that sounds 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.120 like it's you just pulled that out of thin air, 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.159 but it's remarkably similar. Yeah, there's something that's been noted 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.080 in humans called the Westmark effect, which we'll have to 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.680 do an incest episode. But super interesting, especially coming from like, um, 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:54.119 it's like a clinical standpoint of viewpoint. Yeah sure, and 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.760 not just like let's do a show on incests gross 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.480 the end, you know, look at it sociologically. That sounds 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:05.080 like a stuff. Uh. Back to the birds. Another interesting 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.720 finding here when they were when they studied the sexual imprinting. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.800 Initially it was with jackdaws, which are sort of like crows, 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.680 and they found that there were different types of imprinting 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.760 occurring as they mature. So, in other words, one of 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:23.560 those jackdaws eight with humans flew with crows, but made 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:28.280 it with Jackdaws. Right, So that suggests that they were partying. Dude, 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:32.119 there are these um so well rounded jackdaws. But it 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:37.280 suggests that there are the the different sensitive periods rather 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.840 than just one right, fourteen to sixteen hours after hatch 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:46.960 hats right? Right? Um and it you maybe you have 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.080 a filial imprinting like pretty early on. That's the first one, 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:57.800 and then sexual imprinting comes after that. Who knows? Who knows? Um, Well, 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:01.640 we'll talk more about Remember I said Lawrence was accused 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.160 of making the anthropics shift a little too soon. Sure, well, 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.760 he was vindicated to a large extent. Because a lot 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.080 of this does apply to mammals as well. We'll talk 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:37.360 about that right after this. Before we talk about mammals. 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:39.720 Those this quote that I'm meant to read before the 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:41.760 last break, he talked about the guy who talked turkey, 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:48.200 Joe Hutto, and he has quote he said, um, when 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:52.439 the when the first pulse emerged, he made his turkey sound, 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:55.720 and as Joe recounts, the pulse turned his head, its 0:21:55.760 --> 0:22:00.080 eyes met Joe's and quote, something very unambiguous happened in 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:05.719 that moment. Quote true love and the cute. It is cute, 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:09.280 but a little creepy. You know, he's like, you know, 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.359 we met, our eyes met, and it was and it 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.639 was unambiguous. Yeah, so anyway, sorry about it. I just 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:19.520 had to throw that in there. Nice Joe hutto turkey lover. Yeah, 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:23.360 go watch my life as a turkey pbs. Uh, let's 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:27.119 say turkey lover and jest he was a scientist. Oh yeah, 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:30.040 he's not a creep. No, creeps don't use boards like 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:36.439 unambiguous to describe connection. They say get in my van. Right. Alright, 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:42.480 So mammals UM, this is not exactly, strictly speaking imprinting, 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:44.879 but they've sort of expanded over the years of definition 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.000 to include, you know, like what happens if you rip 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:50.840 a monkey away from its mom, which has been done 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:53.480 yes by a guy named Harry Harlow in the fifties 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:58.400 and sixties, the more despicable scientists involved in animal testing. 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:03.240 As a matter of fact, Harlowe's tests with UM filial 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:07.840 imprinting among mammals and monkeys in particular UM led to 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.679 the animal rights movement. It definitely gave its steam and 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:16.240 a lot of public support after UM articles and news 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.639 stories were released about Harlow and when he was vilified, 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:24.600 he did not buckle under public opinion. He is very 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:29.000 famously quoted as who could ever love a monkey? Um? 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.320 Everybody but you. That's what he said in response to 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:35.200 being criticized, who could ever love a monkey? Like, what's 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:38.960 your problem? Idiots? It's a monkey? Yeah, that's yeah. I 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:43.760 don't get that. They shouldn't be in charge of running 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:46.840 tests about filial imprinting with monkeys. They can just sit 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:49.840 there on the sidelines and hate animals. Yeah, watch TV 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:55.280 or something. Yeah, I agreed. Um, watch what was the 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:59.840 broader movie about monkey desk Project X? Yeah that one, 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:02.879 just watch that on a loop. But the working title 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:10.120 was monkey see Monkey do Oh. You're probably right? Um, 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.600 all right, So back to mammals, right. Um. They did 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:16.240 some studies in the ninete nineties a researcher named Keith 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:19.399 Kendrick where they and this one doesn't seem like too 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:22.520 much of a stretch, they switched sheep and goats at birth, 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:27.119 and um, they were allowed contact social contact with their 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:30.920 own species, but they were raised by their adoptive parents, 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:34.320 like the baby sheep was raised by the goat, but 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:37.560 they were still allowed to commingle with other sheep. And 0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:40.080 it still worked. It turned out that they preferred to 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:44.720 mate with the species of the adopted parent adopted mother. 0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:50.359 But they also found very um remarkably or notably, that 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:54.920 it's reversible as well. Yes, they wanted to see how 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:57.280 it would hold upright, So once a year they would 0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:01.560 bring them all back together, be like, mingo, have some 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:05.240 there's some cheese plate over there. They play a little music. 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:08.920 This is after right after they had removed them from 0:25:09.040 --> 0:25:12.399 the opposite species, put them back with their own species, 0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:15.760 and once a year they said, hey, remember those goats 0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:17.639 that you like so much? Oh, it was like that 0:25:17.760 --> 0:25:20.240 up okay. So, and what they found was that among 0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:23.320 females we could say females because we're talking about a 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:29.160 different species um the females showed a preference. They reverted 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:34.679 to their intra species preference. So like they showed like 0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:38.080 a sexual preference for their own species after about one 0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:42.960 to three years after being returned. Yes, right, yes, but males, 0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:46.960 even after three years of being um ming commingled again, 0:25:47.560 --> 0:25:50.800 they still showed a preference for the species that they 0:25:50.800 --> 0:25:53.480 did imprinted on. Yeah, they like the goats are still like, 0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:56.720 oh man, I remember those sheep. And the sheep said 0:25:56.760 --> 0:26:01.239 the same thing about the goats exactly where we can 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:09.040 go party sheep. Oh. I thought that was really interesting though, 0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:13.560 how I mean, there's no explanation, I guess, but how 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:16.240