1 00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:17,365 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Hey, man, what's up. Hey, how's it going. 2 00:00:17,885 --> 00:00:22,325 Speaker 1: It's going okay. A guy just called me and said 3 00:00:22,325 --> 00:00:26,005 Speaker 1: we're in a fight against God and Satan and demonic entities, 4 00:00:26,045 --> 00:00:31,565 Speaker 1: and it was just insane, insane. After a long week 5 00:00:31,605 --> 00:00:34,805 Speaker 1: of writing an investigation, I'm very ready to get home, 6 00:00:35,325 --> 00:00:37,965 Speaker 1: and as per usual in the Ozarks, I have no 7 00:00:38,085 --> 00:00:41,405 Speaker 1: cell reception. But this time, when I get back into range, 8 00:00:41,845 --> 00:00:45,245 Speaker 1: my phone has one hundred miscalls and text messages. One 9 00:00:45,285 --> 00:00:48,365 Speaker 1: of them is Chris's sister. So here's what happened. I 10 00:00:48,405 --> 00:00:51,405 Speaker 1: hear that Chris has been arrested. It turns out that 11 00:00:51,445 --> 00:00:54,885 Speaker 1: he was arrested for making terroristic threats and for burglary. 12 00:00:54,885 --> 00:00:57,165 Speaker 1: That's what I hear. Even though I don't think Chris 13 00:00:57,205 --> 00:00:59,725 Speaker 1: had anything to do with the murder of Rebecca, he 14 00:00:59,845 --> 00:01:02,685 Speaker 1: is not doing himself any favors by visiting her ex 15 00:01:02,725 --> 00:01:06,725 Speaker 1: boyfriend's house. Chris's kids are getting tech, according to the sisters, 16 00:01:06,765 --> 00:01:10,405 Speaker 1: saying that you know your dad's a killer, and it's 17 00:01:11,045 --> 00:01:23,925 Speaker 1: just awful. This is an awful situation. In September of 18 00:01:23,965 --> 00:01:27,125 Speaker 1: two thousand and four, twenty two year old Rebecca Gould 19 00:01:27,325 --> 00:01:30,885 Speaker 1: was brutally murdered in a remote area of the Arkansas Ozarks. 20 00:01:31,685 --> 00:01:36,245 Speaker 1: Fourteen years later, her killer is still out there. I've 21 00:01:36,245 --> 00:01:39,365 Speaker 1: come back to Mountain View with one mission to get 22 00:01:39,525 --> 00:01:52,165 Speaker 1: justice for Rebecca. I'm Catherine Townsend and this is Helen Gone. 23 00:01:54,885 --> 00:01:57,925 Speaker 1: The story we heard from the police is that Chris 24 00:01:57,965 --> 00:02:00,285 Speaker 1: went over to Justin's house and he told him if 25 00:02:00,325 --> 00:02:03,205 Speaker 1: he talks, he'll kill him. That's not what happened. Chris 26 00:02:03,205 --> 00:02:05,325 Speaker 1: and his friend happened to be over Justin's house because 27 00:02:05,325 --> 00:02:08,445 Speaker 1: of was had a friendship with Justin's wife or whatever, 28 00:02:08,965 --> 00:02:12,485 Speaker 1: and they were over there to see her. And you know, 29 00:02:12,565 --> 00:02:15,045 Speaker 1: then Justin came home and I'm sure because of the connection. 30 00:02:15,085 --> 00:02:17,565 Speaker 1: I'm sure there were words exchanged about the case because 31 00:02:17,605 --> 00:02:19,925 Speaker 1: they haven't seen each other in a long time. But 32 00:02:20,485 --> 00:02:22,605 Speaker 1: that wasn't the cause of him going over there at all. 33 00:02:23,325 --> 00:02:26,325 Speaker 1: Tommy went over there, not Chris. We don't know what 34 00:02:26,365 --> 00:02:28,885 Speaker 1: went down behind closed doors. It all sounds very fishy 35 00:02:28,965 --> 00:02:31,325 Speaker 1: that that Chris is the only one with charges against him, 36 00:02:31,325 --> 00:02:34,485 Speaker 1: and he gets charged with burglary, not because he took anything, 37 00:02:34,525 --> 00:02:36,845 Speaker 1: but because if you're at someone's house without permission, you 38 00:02:36,845 --> 00:02:40,285 Speaker 1: can get charged with burglary. I think it's very fishy 39 00:02:40,325 --> 00:02:42,685 Speaker 1: also that A headline came out in the paper saying 40 00:02:43,485 --> 00:02:46,085 Speaker 1: suspect in two thousand and four murder as if you know, 41 00:02:46,565 --> 00:02:47,965 Speaker 1: it just looks like they're trying to throw it on 42 00:02:48,045 --> 00:02:50,525 Speaker 1: Chris once again. It feels like that. It really does 43 00:02:51,525 --> 00:02:55,005 Speaker 1: extremely guilty right now? Is there overall where Chris did 44 00:02:55,085 --> 00:03:01,285 Speaker 1: do it? No? No, I mean I do and he 45 00:03:01,365 --> 00:03:05,085 Speaker 1: doesn't help himself. Wait, so when did this actually happen? 46 00:03:05,565 --> 00:03:09,445 Speaker 1: I don't know. The article got posted yesterday, but from 47 00:03:09,485 --> 00:03:10,965 Speaker 1: what I from what I hear, it was a few 48 00:03:11,045 --> 00:03:13,005 Speaker 1: days ago. I'm trying to I'm getting the affiday but 49 00:03:13,085 --> 00:03:14,845 Speaker 1: now and figuring out when it happened and getting all 50 00:03:14,845 --> 00:03:18,525 Speaker 1: the details. Well, I mean, where the case right now? 51 00:03:18,845 --> 00:03:25,885 Speaker 1: That's it. Dennis told Chris's sister that all the evidence 52 00:03:25,885 --> 00:03:28,565 Speaker 1: in the case points to Chris and that he wants 53 00:03:28,605 --> 00:03:31,725 Speaker 1: to get this case slid before he's retired. And he said, 54 00:03:31,725 --> 00:03:36,525 Speaker 1: all the evidence points to Chris. Your family's trash and yeah, 55 00:03:36,605 --> 00:03:39,765 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's what's on. You said that to her. 56 00:03:40,645 --> 00:03:46,965 Speaker 1: I believe her. So that's what's going on. But they 57 00:03:46,965 --> 00:03:48,725 Speaker 1: don't blame us. The good the good news from that 58 00:03:48,885 --> 00:03:51,325 Speaker 1: is even Chris and his sister don't blame they know, 59 00:03:51,725 --> 00:03:55,605 Speaker 1: like they're calling us and trying to help, so get 60 00:03:55,605 --> 00:03:57,405 Speaker 1: this right. The sister's trying to bail him out, and 61 00:03:57,405 --> 00:03:59,845 Speaker 1: she's like, Chris keeps saying, and this is so Chris, 62 00:04:00,565 --> 00:04:02,565 Speaker 1: my word is my bond. I don't need a lawyer. 63 00:04:02,645 --> 00:04:04,165 Speaker 1: I've got my word. And I'm like, you know, you 64 00:04:04,245 --> 00:04:06,045 Speaker 1: might not want to get him lawyer, and she said, 65 00:04:06,925 --> 00:04:08,525 Speaker 1: I'm trying to get him a lawyer. We don't have 66 00:04:08,565 --> 00:04:11,005 Speaker 1: any money, Chris. This is like the fifth job. Chris 67 00:04:11,085 --> 00:04:13,005 Speaker 1: is lost because these guys keep arresting him. You know, 68 00:04:13,405 --> 00:04:16,245 Speaker 1: she said, Now he's not blameless in this. Chris does 69 00:04:16,285 --> 00:04:18,725 Speaker 1: some really dumb stuff. You know, he's getting himself in trouble. 70 00:04:19,005 --> 00:04:21,525 Speaker 1: Now that Chris is in jail, it is even more 71 00:04:21,645 --> 00:04:25,765 Speaker 1: vital that we find Rebecca's killer. I reached out to 72 00:04:25,845 --> 00:04:29,245 Speaker 1: Casey at the beginning of my investigation and he hasn't 73 00:04:29,285 --> 00:04:31,965 Speaker 1: gotten back to me yet, even though he's the one 74 00:04:32,045 --> 00:04:34,885 Speaker 1: person who's been officially ruled out as a suspect by 75 00:04:34,885 --> 00:04:37,645 Speaker 1: the police. Now I want to find out if his 76 00:04:37,725 --> 00:04:40,365 Speaker 1: AWLIBI is as air tight as they claim it is. 77 00:04:40,845 --> 00:04:43,125 Speaker 1: I still have hope. I mean, maybe I'm wrong and 78 00:04:43,525 --> 00:04:45,805 Speaker 1: maybe and look if he doesn't. If he doesn't get 79 00:04:45,845 --> 00:04:47,685 Speaker 1: back to us ever, maybe it will come to knock 80 00:04:47,725 --> 00:04:49,725 Speaker 1: it on his door. But like, I still have some 81 00:04:49,925 --> 00:04:51,645 Speaker 1: hope that he might get in touch with us. Everyone 82 00:04:51,685 --> 00:04:53,085 Speaker 1: said how much he loved her and what a good 83 00:04:53,085 --> 00:04:57,245 Speaker 1: guy was. There's that topics Did you see that topics 84 00:04:57,285 --> 00:04:59,205 Speaker 1: port about him, and it says, sorry, I met this 85 00:04:59,245 --> 00:05:03,205 Speaker 1: guy named Casey something and he used to sing in 86 00:05:03,245 --> 00:05:06,485 Speaker 1: a band. Anyone know who I'm talking about? Yeah, And 87 00:05:06,565 --> 00:05:10,925 Speaker 1: then and then everybody says, well, this one says, fairly 88 00:05:11,005 --> 00:05:16,925 Speaker 1: decent guy. I think he works at Melbourne Sonic. He's 89 00:05:16,965 --> 00:05:21,045 Speaker 1: really sweet. He's been done wrong by the past. Yeah, 90 00:05:21,085 --> 00:05:25,005 Speaker 1: it's definitely haunted him. It's definitely hot. It seems to 91 00:05:25,045 --> 00:05:26,925 Speaker 1: have really haunted him, and now he seems to be 92 00:05:26,925 --> 00:05:29,365 Speaker 1: happy and settled and everything. But it's really it's also 93 00:05:29,405 --> 00:05:31,045 Speaker 1: really crazy because you think about it and you're like, 94 00:05:31,085 --> 00:05:32,925 Speaker 1: she should have all those things. She should have a 95 00:05:33,005 --> 00:05:35,565 Speaker 1: husband and a baby, and you know, she should have 96 00:05:35,565 --> 00:05:38,125 Speaker 1: the opportunity to be an aunt to her sister's kids 97 00:05:38,245 --> 00:05:40,365 Speaker 1: and you know, all those things, and like she doesn't 98 00:05:40,365 --> 00:05:42,165 Speaker 1: have any of those things now. But then eventually it's 99 00:05:42,165 --> 00:05:43,685 Speaker 1: gonna be like, look, dude, like you say, you love 100 00:05:43,685 --> 00:05:45,725 Speaker 1: this girl. You know, she was so important to you, 101 00:05:45,765 --> 00:05:49,805 Speaker 1: and like she got murdered brutally, you know something. And 102 00:05:49,845 --> 00:05:53,285 Speaker 1: if he has nothing to hide, he should be willing 103 00:05:53,325 --> 00:05:56,645 Speaker 1: to talk about it because that was his friend and 104 00:05:56,685 --> 00:05:58,965 Speaker 1: he loved her and you know, and he should want 105 00:05:58,965 --> 00:06:02,845 Speaker 1: to find who did this. Not only that, but I 106 00:06:02,885 --> 00:06:07,765 Speaker 1: mean his house was destroyed. I kissed if somebody murdered 107 00:06:07,805 --> 00:06:12,725 Speaker 1: somebody in my house. So we go back to the 108 00:06:12,765 --> 00:06:16,365 Speaker 1: timeline and what we know of September twentieth, two thousand 109 00:06:16,365 --> 00:06:19,605 Speaker 1: and four. Casey told police that after Rebecca dropped him 110 00:06:19,645 --> 00:06:21,765 Speaker 1: off at work in the morning, he was at work 111 00:06:21,805 --> 00:06:24,245 Speaker 1: all day until his shift ended. Then he went to 112 00:06:24,285 --> 00:06:26,885 Speaker 1: the movies and stayed out with his friends that whole night. 113 00:06:27,765 --> 00:06:30,125 Speaker 1: But some people in town have heard a different story. 114 00:06:30,765 --> 00:06:34,685 Speaker 1: Remember Alicia, she was the plumber's daughter. Her husband was 115 00:06:34,685 --> 00:06:37,005 Speaker 1: the one who owned the sonic where both Casey and 116 00:06:37,045 --> 00:06:40,165 Speaker 1: Rebecca worked. She were saying, like at his place, I 117 00:06:40,165 --> 00:06:44,205 Speaker 1: thank when she would come up from school, but not 118 00:06:44,605 --> 00:06:46,765 Speaker 1: you know, she wasn't It wasn't been a full time 119 00:06:46,885 --> 00:06:50,125 Speaker 1: thing that she was there all the time. But I 120 00:06:50,165 --> 00:06:52,685 Speaker 1: mean they were together quite a bit. They always worked together. 121 00:06:53,205 --> 00:06:58,285 Speaker 1: I know on that particular day. It was weird day 122 00:06:58,405 --> 00:07:00,645 Speaker 1: that she had brought him to work and dropped him 123 00:07:00,645 --> 00:07:03,725 Speaker 1: off that day. I don't know why. I think maybe 124 00:07:03,765 --> 00:07:05,925 Speaker 1: because she was up on school, she was at working. 125 00:07:06,045 --> 00:07:08,485 Speaker 1: I'm not sure she wasn't off on break or something, 126 00:07:09,685 --> 00:07:12,565 Speaker 1: but she had dropped him off for at sonics that morning. 127 00:07:12,925 --> 00:07:15,045 Speaker 1: That was the last fan that he saw her. The 128 00:07:15,165 --> 00:07:18,645 Speaker 1: very fact. They said that he had went, that he 129 00:07:18,765 --> 00:07:21,285 Speaker 1: lest work, and I guess Rebecca wasn't supposed to be there. 130 00:07:21,285 --> 00:07:23,645 Speaker 1: She was supposed to be leaving to go back to Fayetteville. 131 00:07:24,245 --> 00:07:28,125 Speaker 1: And so he left work with a friend and they 132 00:07:28,205 --> 00:07:31,485 Speaker 1: actually went out to the movies and you know, hung 133 00:07:31,525 --> 00:07:34,365 Speaker 1: out that night, and he said he didn't return home, 134 00:07:34,445 --> 00:07:38,365 Speaker 1: you know, till really late and into the next morning. 135 00:07:38,445 --> 00:07:40,845 Speaker 1: I think they said he was there for the whole 136 00:07:40,965 --> 00:07:44,885 Speaker 1: entire shift that day, and that he left work with 137 00:07:45,205 --> 00:07:48,845 Speaker 1: that friend of his, and that they were supposed to 138 00:07:48,845 --> 00:07:54,245 Speaker 1: go out to a movie. Or what she's saying matches 139 00:07:54,245 --> 00:07:56,645 Speaker 1: the story that was reported in the papers and what 140 00:07:56,725 --> 00:07:59,445 Speaker 1: I've heard from others. Casey was at work all day 141 00:07:59,525 --> 00:08:01,725 Speaker 1: and out with his friends all night. He was really 142 00:08:01,765 --> 00:08:05,125 Speaker 1: shook up. He seemed like it after you know, they 143 00:08:05,645 --> 00:08:07,925 Speaker 1: don't want to Reaca about what I found odd was 144 00:08:10,805 --> 00:08:12,925 Speaker 1: he said that he went back to the house and 145 00:08:14,005 --> 00:08:16,285 Speaker 1: that he couldn't tell anything that happened there, but that 146 00:08:16,445 --> 00:08:20,325 Speaker 1: her stuff was still there and her belongings. And I 147 00:08:20,405 --> 00:08:24,085 Speaker 1: just think that's not accurate, because you know, they said 148 00:08:24,125 --> 00:08:27,845 Speaker 1: that you could physically tell something happened, and how could 149 00:08:27,885 --> 00:08:30,525 Speaker 1: you go into your own home and not notice that 150 00:08:30,685 --> 00:08:34,125 Speaker 1: something happened there, or to how to say that you 151 00:08:34,205 --> 00:08:38,325 Speaker 1: don't noticed that something happened. I just I don't understand that. 152 00:08:38,925 --> 00:08:41,445 Speaker 1: Do you think that your ex husband could help us 153 00:08:41,525 --> 00:08:46,845 Speaker 1: with the records of who was working at Sonic that day? Yeah? Probably? 154 00:08:47,165 --> 00:08:50,325 Speaker 1: All right? So Licia unloads some new information I haven't 155 00:08:50,325 --> 00:08:53,525 Speaker 1: heard before. She said that Casey may have stopped at 156 00:08:53,525 --> 00:08:55,725 Speaker 1: home at some point before he went there with the 157 00:08:55,725 --> 00:09:08,525 Speaker 1: police on Tuesday. Your call has been forwarded to an 158 00:09:08,565 --> 00:09:15,725 Speaker 1: automated voice messaging system. He's not available at the Tell him. 159 00:09:15,725 --> 00:09:18,445 Speaker 1: Please record your message. When you've finished recording, you may 160 00:09:18,485 --> 00:09:21,685 Speaker 1: hang up form Alicia's husband, Joey isn't calling us back. 161 00:09:22,325 --> 00:09:25,845 Speaker 1: Sometimes people don't want to get involved because they're hiding something. 162 00:09:26,605 --> 00:09:29,845 Speaker 1: Other times, especially in this case, it can be because 163 00:09:29,885 --> 00:09:35,845 Speaker 1: they are scared. George has proven to be a valuable 164 00:09:35,885 --> 00:09:38,325 Speaker 1: member of our team. He's the only one who was 165 00:09:38,325 --> 00:09:41,125 Speaker 1: there at the time reporting on the murder and is 166 00:09:41,165 --> 00:09:44,645 Speaker 1: emotionally and physically removed enough to give me some real answers. 167 00:09:45,285 --> 00:09:48,805 Speaker 1: What do you think about Casey? Now? I don't know. 168 00:09:49,325 --> 00:09:53,605 Speaker 1: He talked to me several times, initially after her body 169 00:09:53,645 --> 00:10:00,085 Speaker 1: was found, and then I contacted his wife, his now wife, 170 00:10:00,765 --> 00:10:03,405 Speaker 1: probably in twenty sixteen. I called her at work and 171 00:10:03,445 --> 00:10:04,885 Speaker 1: she's like, oh, because I wanted to talk to him, 172 00:10:04,885 --> 00:10:06,165 Speaker 1: you know, because I want to to kind of update 173 00:10:06,205 --> 00:10:08,645 Speaker 1: the case, and I wanted to get dive into some 174 00:10:08,645 --> 00:10:11,885 Speaker 1: more details because, like you said, it's been you know, 175 00:10:12,085 --> 00:10:14,485 Speaker 1: at that time, it had been twelve years. I mean, 176 00:10:14,845 --> 00:10:16,565 Speaker 1: you're getting to the point where it doesn't matter if 177 00:10:16,605 --> 00:10:19,165 Speaker 1: you're still interviewing people. This is a cold case, and 178 00:10:19,885 --> 00:10:23,525 Speaker 1: you never know when one little thing will break in 179 00:10:23,565 --> 00:10:27,605 Speaker 1: a case. One story runs, one rumor starts, and then 180 00:10:27,645 --> 00:10:31,685 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, everything changes. So I just wanted 181 00:10:31,725 --> 00:10:33,605 Speaker 1: to talk to him, and so I called her, and 182 00:10:33,645 --> 00:10:37,205 Speaker 1: she was really nice, very nice, very friendly, gave me 183 00:10:38,165 --> 00:10:41,085 Speaker 1: her phone number and his phone number, and I tried 184 00:10:41,125 --> 00:10:44,285 Speaker 1: to contact him and he would not talk to me. Well, 185 00:10:44,365 --> 00:10:46,525 Speaker 1: then I try to contact her, and she wouldn't contact 186 00:10:46,525 --> 00:10:49,205 Speaker 1: me back, and she had told me. She goes, oh, 187 00:10:49,245 --> 00:10:52,245 Speaker 1: he'd love to talk to you. But then so then 188 00:10:52,405 --> 00:10:55,685 Speaker 1: I finally contacted her at work again and I said, hey, 189 00:10:55,805 --> 00:10:57,685 Speaker 1: I've been trying to get ahold of you in casey 190 00:10:57,725 --> 00:10:59,525 Speaker 1: and I haven't get hold of you. Guys, she goes, oh, 191 00:10:59,525 --> 00:11:00,765 Speaker 1: he doesn't want to talk about it. He doesn't think 192 00:11:00,805 --> 00:11:02,405 Speaker 1: it'll do him any good to talk to you. And 193 00:11:02,725 --> 00:11:04,925 Speaker 1: I said, well, that may be true. I mean, I'm 194 00:11:04,965 --> 00:11:07,405 Speaker 1: just a journal but I would like to talk to him. 195 00:11:07,565 --> 00:11:10,005 Speaker 1: You know, the story is, you know, she went and 196 00:11:10,085 --> 00:11:12,925 Speaker 1: dropped him off at work, and then she went to 197 00:11:12,445 --> 00:11:15,445 Speaker 1: the Possum Trot convenience store, got a couple of things, 198 00:11:15,485 --> 00:11:17,405 Speaker 1: and then left went back to his house, and then 199 00:11:17,765 --> 00:11:20,685 Speaker 1: somewhere sometime during the morning she died. Well, then he 200 00:11:20,725 --> 00:11:23,005 Speaker 1: got off work and then he went to it stayed 201 00:11:23,005 --> 00:11:24,365 Speaker 1: at night at a friend's house, and then went straight 202 00:11:24,405 --> 00:11:26,325 Speaker 1: to work the next day. So he never returned to 203 00:11:26,405 --> 00:11:28,605 Speaker 1: his house to see the full new clothes and all 204 00:11:28,605 --> 00:11:31,005 Speaker 1: this other stuff. Well, then I heard a separate story 205 00:11:31,005 --> 00:11:33,285 Speaker 1: that he did go home the next morning to get 206 00:11:33,285 --> 00:11:36,765 Speaker 1: some fresh clothes for work, and so I just you know, 207 00:11:36,845 --> 00:11:39,685 Speaker 1: that's a kind of a big detail. It's a big detail. 208 00:11:40,365 --> 00:11:42,245 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to know. And you know, he 209 00:11:42,285 --> 00:11:44,445 Speaker 1: obviously didn't want to talk about it, and to this 210 00:11:44,605 --> 00:11:47,125 Speaker 1: day I have not spoke to him about it. I 211 00:11:47,205 --> 00:11:50,325 Speaker 1: tried to, but he just doesn't want to talk. Turns 212 00:11:50,365 --> 00:11:53,525 Speaker 1: out he's heard the same thing we heard that at 213 00:11:53,565 --> 00:11:57,325 Speaker 1: some point before the police arrived on Tuesday, Casey went 214 00:11:57,365 --> 00:12:00,005 Speaker 1: home to change shirts. Even if her car was just 215 00:12:00,045 --> 00:12:02,005 Speaker 1: still there, he still wouldn't have left, you know, to 216 00:12:02,005 --> 00:12:03,365 Speaker 1: go to a friend's house, do you know what I mean. 217 00:12:03,405 --> 00:12:06,725 Speaker 1: It never made sense to me that he there. Yeah, 218 00:12:07,205 --> 00:12:10,005 Speaker 1: everything was there. I mean, even if you wanted to assume, 219 00:12:10,605 --> 00:12:13,045 Speaker 1: let's say her car was there. Let's say he comes 220 00:12:13,085 --> 00:12:15,565 Speaker 1: home the next morning, sees her car there. Maybe another 221 00:12:15,605 --> 00:12:17,765 Speaker 1: friend came and picked her up, went and stayed the night, 222 00:12:17,885 --> 00:12:20,325 Speaker 1: you know, with another friend. Something happened to you know, 223 00:12:20,445 --> 00:12:21,965 Speaker 1: she was supposed to pick her sister up. Maybe the 224 00:12:22,045 --> 00:12:26,085 Speaker 1: arrangement changed. She wouldn't have left her purse. In his defense, 225 00:12:27,765 --> 00:12:30,245 Speaker 1: to this degree, we don't know for certain that he 226 00:12:30,365 --> 00:12:33,845 Speaker 1: returned to the house. That it's it's just again a rumor. 227 00:12:34,085 --> 00:12:35,965 Speaker 1: When you talk to Casey, what did he seem like 228 00:12:36,005 --> 00:12:40,485 Speaker 1: when you seem really emotional upset. He seemed really distant, 229 00:12:40,965 --> 00:12:44,805 Speaker 1: like you could tell that there was a shock factor 230 00:12:44,885 --> 00:12:48,605 Speaker 1: with him. And I was actually at the Sheriff's department 231 00:12:48,605 --> 00:12:50,605 Speaker 1: when they brought him in for questioning one time, and 232 00:12:50,645 --> 00:12:54,205 Speaker 1: the family was there, and I mean there was fire 233 00:12:54,325 --> 00:12:56,765 Speaker 1: in a lot of those people's eyes. And actually one 234 00:12:56,805 --> 00:12:59,765 Speaker 1: of Rebecca's ex boyfriends, Justin, he was there and he 235 00:12:59,845 --> 00:13:02,645 Speaker 1: started like just tears started coming down his face and 236 00:13:02,645 --> 00:13:05,685 Speaker 1: he was really angry. It looked like just watching the 237 00:13:05,725 --> 00:13:09,205 Speaker 1: police lead him into the Sheriff's department. Considering that we 238 00:13:09,365 --> 00:13:12,165 Speaker 1: now know Rebecca and Justin saw each other just a 239 00:13:12,205 --> 00:13:16,165 Speaker 1: week before her death, I can't imagine the tension inside 240 00:13:16,165 --> 00:13:18,565 Speaker 1: that police station. So when I talked to him, he 241 00:13:18,565 --> 00:13:21,085 Speaker 1: seemed shocked. I talked to him maybe twice after that, 242 00:13:22,365 --> 00:13:27,845 Speaker 1: and he just very quiet, very soft spoken. You know 243 00:13:28,045 --> 00:13:33,845 Speaker 1: he you know, I suspect he probably knows some things, 244 00:13:34,085 --> 00:13:36,805 Speaker 1: but you know, I can't He won't talk to me, 245 00:13:36,845 --> 00:13:39,485 Speaker 1: so I can't prove it. So I might be scared. 246 00:13:39,965 --> 00:13:43,005 Speaker 1: He may be scared. That's that's a very viable possibility. 247 00:13:43,885 --> 00:13:46,925 Speaker 1: Being like a CUB reporter at the time, I made 248 00:13:46,965 --> 00:13:49,645 Speaker 1: some mistakes because he did talk to me after the fact, 249 00:13:50,245 --> 00:13:53,325 Speaker 1: and I could have found these details out immediately. All 250 00:13:53,365 --> 00:13:54,805 Speaker 1: I had to do was ask the questions and guess 251 00:13:54,805 --> 00:13:57,965 Speaker 1: what didn't ask questions, And so now I have to 252 00:13:58,005 --> 00:14:01,125 Speaker 1: spin my wheels fourteen years later to try to find 253 00:14:01,125 --> 00:14:03,965 Speaker 1: the answers. Now, I think that Casey at one time 254 00:14:04,045 --> 00:14:06,525 Speaker 1: may have been named as a suspect quote unquote, but 255 00:14:06,565 --> 00:14:10,005 Speaker 1: they cleared him pretty quickly. Now, Casey did tell me 256 00:14:10,725 --> 00:14:13,605 Speaker 1: that they did interview interrogate him hard. I mean he 257 00:14:13,685 --> 00:14:17,005 Speaker 1: literally said that they just came at him, I mean, 258 00:14:17,045 --> 00:14:19,485 Speaker 1: and they were very combative, telling him he knew it, 259 00:14:19,565 --> 00:14:21,365 Speaker 1: he knew they knew he had something to do with that. 260 00:14:21,485 --> 00:14:24,885 Speaker 1: He knew something. So but anyway, it would be nice 261 00:14:24,925 --> 00:14:31,685 Speaker 1: if you know they should have some suspects. We'll be 262 00:14:31,765 --> 00:14:41,285 Speaker 1: right back until we can find someone else who knew Casey. 263 00:14:41,805 --> 00:14:45,365 Speaker 1: Danielle will have to help us understand Casey and Rebecca's relationship, 264 00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:48,445 Speaker 1: which seems more and more complicated the more we learn. 265 00:14:50,245 --> 00:14:55,485 Speaker 1: They I think went out for over a year. I mean, 266 00:14:55,525 --> 00:15:01,845 Speaker 1: he was obsessed with her. He wrote music about her, poems, 267 00:15:03,205 --> 00:15:05,245 Speaker 1: you know. Every now and then he would freak out. 268 00:15:05,965 --> 00:15:11,925 Speaker 1: He was very He's kind of controlling. And on our 269 00:15:11,965 --> 00:15:17,205 Speaker 1: way back to Mountain View in the car, Rebecca had 270 00:15:17,245 --> 00:15:23,365 Speaker 1: said we had she had mentioned Casey and she was like, Hey, 271 00:15:23,605 --> 00:15:29,485 Speaker 1: he wants to be my boyfriend, and you know she 272 00:15:29,485 --> 00:15:33,165 Speaker 1: didn't want that. So that was really strange that she 273 00:15:33,205 --> 00:15:39,445 Speaker 1: had said that after all the years and just not 274 00:15:41,605 --> 00:15:47,645 Speaker 1: getting anywhere. I don't know, Yeah, what do you think? Yeah? 275 00:15:47,685 --> 00:15:49,765 Speaker 1: And you were saying his dad wouldn't let you search 276 00:15:49,805 --> 00:15:52,565 Speaker 1: the land or he wouldn't like we were allowed to 277 00:15:52,725 --> 00:15:57,085 Speaker 1: search the land? No, which seems really weird. That's where 278 00:15:57,125 --> 00:16:00,085 Speaker 1: it happened. Yeah, and they're really good. But he's supposedly 279 00:16:00,125 --> 00:16:03,165 Speaker 1: really good friends with her and loved her, so right, 280 00:16:03,245 --> 00:16:06,725 Speaker 1: why wouldn't you let you search? Right? We've heard that 281 00:16:06,845 --> 00:16:10,245 Speaker 1: Casey's dad supposedly did not allow the land surrounding the 282 00:16:10,245 --> 00:16:13,725 Speaker 1: crime scene to be searched. Was there no search warrant? 283 00:16:13,965 --> 00:16:16,205 Speaker 1: And how much land are we talking here? Yeah? I 284 00:16:16,205 --> 00:16:18,125 Speaker 1: feel like we got a lot to do. So I 285 00:16:18,205 --> 00:16:20,325 Speaker 1: need the address for the Isra County assessor because I 286 00:16:20,325 --> 00:16:26,085 Speaker 1: have no is There county assessor. Let's see. So we 287 00:16:26,165 --> 00:16:28,685 Speaker 1: drive to Melbourne to get the tax records to find 288 00:16:28,725 --> 00:16:31,885 Speaker 1: out we're trying to find out I'll not need to 289 00:16:31,885 --> 00:16:33,805 Speaker 1: go to the park's office. But if we're trying to 290 00:16:33,805 --> 00:16:37,965 Speaker 1: find out who owns a piece of land, okay, well 291 00:16:38,365 --> 00:16:41,005 Speaker 1: that's the thing. They have the address I have, I 292 00:16:41,045 --> 00:16:45,085 Speaker 1: have it on that and there have been two different 293 00:16:45,085 --> 00:16:47,725 Speaker 1: addresses for it. So can you do it by cordinate me? 294 00:16:48,125 --> 00:16:51,405 Speaker 1: You know, I'm sorry. Okay. So it would be like 295 00:16:51,565 --> 00:16:55,845 Speaker 1: this area right here, does it have a house on it? Yes, 296 00:16:56,365 --> 00:17:00,445 Speaker 1: so there should be an right So where from this 297 00:17:01,285 --> 00:17:04,285 Speaker 1: is the property that you're looking for. It's sort of 298 00:17:04,325 --> 00:17:08,925 Speaker 1: behind it, so the house is behind it. The house 299 00:17:09,085 --> 00:17:11,965 Speaker 1: is spread by the road, and then it's like there's 300 00:17:11,965 --> 00:17:15,165 Speaker 1: some land behind it. Okay, so it's just the raw 301 00:17:15,245 --> 00:17:19,725 Speaker 1: land that you're asking. Yes, it's who owns it. That's 302 00:17:19,725 --> 00:17:22,645 Speaker 1: who owns that's who owns the mobile too. How far 303 00:17:22,685 --> 00:17:24,765 Speaker 1: does his property? How far does that property line go? 304 00:17:25,605 --> 00:17:28,765 Speaker 1: He's got kind a bit of property there. Wow, it's 305 00:17:28,805 --> 00:17:32,885 Speaker 1: a lot. Okay, thank you very much. Back at the car, 306 00:17:33,125 --> 00:17:35,925 Speaker 1: we unroll the map from the assessor. So this is 307 00:17:35,965 --> 00:17:39,645 Speaker 1: the house. That's the trailer house, right, so look where's 308 00:17:39,645 --> 00:17:43,125 Speaker 1: where's Highway nine? Anyway, just for my own interest, I'm 309 00:17:43,125 --> 00:17:45,405 Speaker 1: like glad we saw that because he has a big 310 00:17:45,445 --> 00:17:48,645 Speaker 1: ass piece of land back there. I'm just curious to 311 00:17:48,645 --> 00:17:50,365 Speaker 1: see if there was a quicker way for Casey to 312 00:17:50,405 --> 00:17:53,965 Speaker 1: cut through, or anyone else to cut through. It's only 313 00:17:54,045 --> 00:17:56,685 Speaker 1: about four and a half miles in that cut through, 314 00:17:56,725 --> 00:17:59,805 Speaker 1: and it's a really well paved road. I found another 315 00:17:59,885 --> 00:18:02,565 Speaker 1: back road. There's a dirt road that starts out right 316 00:18:02,565 --> 00:18:05,165 Speaker 1: next to Sonic in Melbourne and comes out on Highway 317 00:18:05,165 --> 00:18:09,445 Speaker 1: fifty just under a mile from Casey's house. I drive 318 00:18:09,565 --> 00:18:13,125 Speaker 1: slowly down the dirt road, passed several farms and over 319 00:18:13,165 --> 00:18:16,125 Speaker 1: a rickety wooden bridge. It's about four and a half 320 00:18:16,165 --> 00:18:19,405 Speaker 1: miles from the Sonic to Casey's house, about ten minutes, 321 00:18:19,805 --> 00:18:22,245 Speaker 1: and I didn't pass one single car on the road. 322 00:18:22,685 --> 00:18:25,405 Speaker 1: I kind of can't let go the fact that Casey 323 00:18:25,445 --> 00:18:28,885 Speaker 1: could have left work that day, and again, since we're 324 00:18:28,885 --> 00:18:31,045 Speaker 1: trying to rule him out as a suspect, I just 325 00:18:31,045 --> 00:18:33,565 Speaker 1: want to explore every possibility for how he could have 326 00:18:33,605 --> 00:18:37,245 Speaker 1: gone between those two locations. One of the questions we've 327 00:18:37,285 --> 00:18:40,205 Speaker 1: been trying to answer was whether Rebecca's body was taken 328 00:18:40,205 --> 00:18:43,325 Speaker 1: straight to the dump site or kept somewhere else and moved. 329 00:18:44,165 --> 00:18:47,525 Speaker 1: So we take another look at the autopsy, reading through 330 00:18:47,565 --> 00:18:50,805 Speaker 1: the gory details of the kinds of insects that consumed 331 00:18:50,845 --> 00:18:55,245 Speaker 1: Rebecca's body makes me feel in a strange way like 332 00:18:55,285 --> 00:18:58,325 Speaker 1: I'm invading her privacy. But it's one of the only 333 00:18:58,405 --> 00:19:00,965 Speaker 1: pieces of solid physical evidence that we have access to 334 00:19:01,045 --> 00:19:03,765 Speaker 1: in this case. So we owe it to Rebecca to 335 00:19:03,845 --> 00:19:07,925 Speaker 1: leave no stone unturned, even if the details are stomach turning. 336 00:19:10,205 --> 00:19:14,805 Speaker 1: This is doctor Eric Merritt. He's a forensic entomologist. Most 337 00:19:14,845 --> 00:19:17,405 Speaker 1: of the time, and I'd say ninety nine percent of time. 338 00:19:17,845 --> 00:19:20,245 Speaker 1: It's a group called the blowflies, and these are the 339 00:19:20,285 --> 00:19:24,245 Speaker 1: green and blue bottleflies that hang around your garbage can 340 00:19:24,405 --> 00:19:28,285 Speaker 1: and if there's rotting meat, these are the first flies 341 00:19:28,485 --> 00:19:33,165 Speaker 1: to come to a body, whether it be a deer, rabbit, 342 00:19:33,285 --> 00:19:36,325 Speaker 1: or anything that dies. If you put it out, say 343 00:19:36,365 --> 00:19:39,885 Speaker 1: in the backyard, the first thing that come to him 344 00:19:39,885 --> 00:19:45,925 Speaker 1: within minutes will be blowflies. So what happens is as 345 00:19:45,925 --> 00:19:52,565 Speaker 1: soon as a person dies, they give off odors, okay, 346 00:19:52,605 --> 00:19:56,725 Speaker 1: and generally they come into the ears, no eyes, nose, 347 00:19:56,765 --> 00:20:00,085 Speaker 1: and mouth. That's their first area they come to and 348 00:20:00,165 --> 00:20:03,925 Speaker 1: lay their eggs. So within ten to fifteen minutes after 349 00:20:04,005 --> 00:20:06,765 Speaker 1: someone dies and they'll come in and they'll lay their eggs. 350 00:20:07,445 --> 00:20:12,125 Speaker 1: Within twelve to twenty four hours of dead bodies, and 351 00:20:13,085 --> 00:20:16,485 Speaker 1: once they lay their eggs in these maggots what we 352 00:20:16,565 --> 00:20:22,045 Speaker 1: call the eggs hatch into maggots or larvaew we call them. 353 00:20:22,085 --> 00:20:26,125 Speaker 1: And these things hatch from the eggs after twenty four 354 00:20:26,165 --> 00:20:30,005 Speaker 1: to forty eight hours, and they go through a number 355 00:20:30,045 --> 00:20:34,085 Speaker 1: of what we call stages or in stars, in stars 356 00:20:34,165 --> 00:20:38,725 Speaker 1: the scientific term. But they hatch, they molt, and they'll 357 00:20:38,765 --> 00:20:41,005 Speaker 1: be a bigger larvae, and then they'll mold and they'll 358 00:20:41,045 --> 00:20:44,725 Speaker 1: be a bigger larva. And so they grow at a 359 00:20:44,765 --> 00:20:49,805 Speaker 1: constant rate based on temperature. It was Arkansas, Indian summer. 360 00:20:49,925 --> 00:20:53,005 Speaker 1: During the week Rebecca's body was in the woods, the 361 00:20:53,045 --> 00:20:56,565 Speaker 1: temperature climbed a highs around eighty five degrees. So what 362 00:20:56,605 --> 00:20:59,925 Speaker 1: we do is when a person found like this body 363 00:20:59,965 --> 00:21:03,845 Speaker 1: I read your report where she had maggots won sixteenth 364 00:21:03,925 --> 00:21:07,685 Speaker 1: to one half inch. So the one half inch would 365 00:21:07,725 --> 00:21:12,245 Speaker 1: indicate that there's probably some late stage larvae that are 366 00:21:12,365 --> 00:21:16,685 Speaker 1: ready to migrate away from the body and go into 367 00:21:16,725 --> 00:21:19,845 Speaker 1: the soil and turn into what we call the resting 368 00:21:19,925 --> 00:21:24,445 Speaker 1: stage or the pupa, and then eventually they'll come out 369 00:21:24,445 --> 00:21:27,445 Speaker 1: as an adult. These are probably third instars. It goes 370 00:21:27,485 --> 00:21:31,645 Speaker 1: through three in stars, first, second, and third, and there's 371 00:21:31,685 --> 00:21:34,525 Speaker 1: certain characteristics of the larva that we can look at 372 00:21:34,965 --> 00:21:39,245 Speaker 1: and determine what stage they're in. When I saw that 373 00:21:39,325 --> 00:21:46,685 Speaker 1: half inch, that's about fourteen called the fourteen millimeters, and 374 00:21:46,725 --> 00:21:51,045 Speaker 1: that's about a third stage larvae. So it's based on 375 00:21:51,165 --> 00:21:54,485 Speaker 1: the normal development of a fly that I'm used to 376 00:21:55,245 --> 00:21:58,245 Speaker 1: that would be about a week old. Doctor Merritt explains 377 00:21:58,245 --> 00:22:01,845 Speaker 1: that while it's not an exact science, forensic entomology can 378 00:22:01,885 --> 00:22:04,205 Speaker 1: be one of the best ways to determine time of death. 379 00:22:04,525 --> 00:22:08,325 Speaker 1: I've heard, for example, someone talking about this case. They said, oh, well, 380 00:22:08,605 --> 00:22:10,525 Speaker 1: based on the maggots, they can get the time of 381 00:22:10,525 --> 00:22:13,085 Speaker 1: death down to like thirty minutes, And I didn't. I 382 00:22:13,205 --> 00:22:15,685 Speaker 1: from everything I know, that's not true. If you can 383 00:22:15,725 --> 00:22:18,885 Speaker 1: get the depth down to win a thirty minutes based 384 00:22:18,885 --> 00:22:22,125 Speaker 1: on magots, then you should be a suspect. But if 385 00:22:22,205 --> 00:22:26,165 Speaker 1: you can get better than anybody else generally by the 386 00:22:26,205 --> 00:22:30,885 Speaker 1: medical examiner or by the detectives and stuff like that, 387 00:22:31,285 --> 00:22:34,085 Speaker 1: and even the anthropologists, you can do better than they can. 388 00:22:34,845 --> 00:22:38,725 Speaker 1: So if you have a magets and you collect them, 389 00:22:38,765 --> 00:22:41,725 Speaker 1: and you know, we can identify them, and we can 390 00:22:41,765 --> 00:22:44,965 Speaker 1: do pretty darn close to when that person probably died, 391 00:22:45,005 --> 00:22:48,325 Speaker 1: but not thirty minutes or anything like that. Based on 392 00:22:48,365 --> 00:22:51,445 Speaker 1: my drive through the back roads, I estimate that someone 393 00:22:51,445 --> 00:22:54,285 Speaker 1: could have killed Rebecca and disposed of her body in 394 00:22:54,405 --> 00:22:57,525 Speaker 1: under an hour. All of the evidence points to the 395 00:22:57,525 --> 00:22:59,565 Speaker 1: fact that she was in the woods for a week 396 00:22:59,965 --> 00:23:02,285 Speaker 1: and that her body was put there within a few 397 00:23:02,325 --> 00:23:08,645 Speaker 1: hours after her death, not kept somewhere else. We'll be 398 00:23:08,765 --> 00:23:22,805 Speaker 1: right back. During our investigation, we've learned a lot about Jennifer, Chris, JB, 399 00:23:23,365 --> 00:23:27,085 Speaker 1: and Justin, but more than anyone else in this case, 400 00:23:27,605 --> 00:23:32,805 Speaker 1: Casey is an enigma. By all accounts, he was distraught 401 00:23:32,845 --> 00:23:36,845 Speaker 1: after Rebecca's death. He's the polar opposite of Justin, JB. 402 00:23:36,965 --> 00:23:40,845 Speaker 1: And Chris, who come across as tough. Casey is the 403 00:23:40,885 --> 00:23:45,005 Speaker 1: acoustic guitarist, strumming, sensitive musician who wrote poems to his girlfriend. 404 00:23:45,845 --> 00:23:48,925 Speaker 1: For several years after Rebecca's death, he traveled around the 405 00:23:48,925 --> 00:23:53,085 Speaker 1: country working various jobs. A few years ago he'd moved 406 00:23:53,125 --> 00:23:57,685 Speaker 1: back to Melbourne. His new wife is attractive, young and blonde, 407 00:23:58,325 --> 00:24:02,845 Speaker 1: just like Rebecca. She worked at Sonic too. They got married, 408 00:24:03,205 --> 00:24:07,125 Speaker 1: They had children. At least on the surf, Casey seemed 409 00:24:07,125 --> 00:24:10,285 Speaker 1: to find love and live happily ever after, the happy 410 00:24:10,445 --> 00:24:14,365 Speaker 1: ending that Rebecca never got. But what I can understand 411 00:24:14,525 --> 00:24:17,445 Speaker 1: is when everyone else in town was searching for the 412 00:24:17,485 --> 00:24:20,765 Speaker 1: girl he was madly in love with, Casey seemed to 413 00:24:20,765 --> 00:24:23,485 Speaker 1: be m I a. Casey is the only person we've 414 00:24:23,485 --> 00:24:25,885 Speaker 1: looked at so far who didn't help with the search. 415 00:24:27,085 --> 00:24:29,645 Speaker 1: I tracked down Casey's friend Patrick at the store where 416 00:24:29,645 --> 00:24:33,525 Speaker 1: he works. He's friendly and welcoming. When I tell him 417 00:24:33,525 --> 00:24:36,365 Speaker 1: I'm there to talk about Casey and Rebecca's murder, he 418 00:24:36,445 --> 00:24:38,845 Speaker 1: takes me into the back office. Casey's one of my 419 00:24:38,885 --> 00:24:43,365 Speaker 1: best friends. Yes, yeah, Casey. After the whole or dealer 420 00:24:43,365 --> 00:24:44,965 Speaker 1: and everything, of course, you know, he was still standing 421 00:24:45,005 --> 00:24:49,325 Speaker 1: out there at the trailer, which he hated. I ended 422 00:24:49,365 --> 00:24:51,805 Speaker 1: up talking to him and we let him move, actually 423 00:24:51,805 --> 00:24:53,205 Speaker 1: move in with me and my wife, and he stayed 424 00:24:53,205 --> 00:24:55,885 Speaker 1: with us for I don't know how long long time. 425 00:24:55,965 --> 00:24:58,005 Speaker 1: I mean, I still remember that entire day. I was 426 00:24:58,045 --> 00:25:01,365 Speaker 1: actually in town getting We had one of our lug 427 00:25:01,445 --> 00:25:03,485 Speaker 1: nut bolts on our tire break off. We had to 428 00:25:03,525 --> 00:25:06,885 Speaker 1: get it fixed, heard about it and everything. But I 429 00:25:06,885 --> 00:25:11,485 Speaker 1: remember right after that all happened and everything else I 430 00:25:11,605 --> 00:25:14,005 Speaker 1: heard about it. I remember Casey and them, saying that 431 00:25:14,485 --> 00:25:17,165 Speaker 1: he had nothing out with laring to them because we 432 00:25:17,165 --> 00:25:18,845 Speaker 1: were going We used to have a huge group of 433 00:25:18,885 --> 00:25:21,125 Speaker 1: saw people Every Wednesday, we'd go out to Larens and 434 00:25:21,165 --> 00:25:23,525 Speaker 1: have this Halo night where we would bring TVs and 435 00:25:23,605 --> 00:25:28,125 Speaker 1: xboxes to play. After I heard about everything else, of 436 00:25:28,125 --> 00:25:31,725 Speaker 1: course Casey was distraught, and while he was I guess 437 00:25:31,725 --> 00:25:33,845 Speaker 1: being interviewed and everything else, I went around town to 438 00:25:34,005 --> 00:25:36,005 Speaker 1: the different gas stations and stuff, asking and saying, hey, 439 00:25:36,045 --> 00:25:38,405 Speaker 1: do you have any cameras pointing towards the road, trying 440 00:25:38,405 --> 00:25:43,525 Speaker 1: to verify his story everything, And I guess the Possum 441 00:25:43,565 --> 00:25:46,045 Speaker 1: trot or he used to be paulsing Trot has some 442 00:25:46,205 --> 00:25:48,485 Speaker 1: cameras out there and which we informed the police about. 443 00:25:48,565 --> 00:25:50,965 Speaker 1: And then I guess that's one of the cameras they 444 00:25:50,965 --> 00:25:53,165 Speaker 1: found when you guys when he went to Larenz. Do 445 00:25:53,165 --> 00:25:55,085 Speaker 1: you know what he was doing that night that I 446 00:25:55,125 --> 00:26:02,765 Speaker 1: don't that I don't so back then, which I don't 447 00:26:02,805 --> 00:26:05,485 Speaker 1: know if it's changed now as far as fight with Larying, 448 00:26:05,525 --> 00:26:07,485 Speaker 1: then we've all they've all had whole house slipped forward. 449 00:26:08,125 --> 00:26:10,005 Speaker 1: But back then, you know, they were big into marijuana. 450 00:26:10,045 --> 00:26:12,445 Speaker 1: Stuff like that smoked marijuana and that was their big things. 451 00:26:12,485 --> 00:26:14,525 Speaker 1: So I imagine if they got together, that's probably what 452 00:26:14,525 --> 00:26:17,485 Speaker 1: they were doing that night, which I guess they probably were, 453 00:26:17,525 --> 00:26:19,805 Speaker 1: because I guess whenever Casey did the light detector and 454 00:26:19,805 --> 00:26:21,645 Speaker 1: tests stuff like that, I guess there were some issues. 455 00:26:22,405 --> 00:26:25,165 Speaker 1: If you smoke marijuana so far before you take one, 456 00:26:25,205 --> 00:26:27,525 Speaker 1: they say you can mess up the tests or something. 457 00:26:28,445 --> 00:26:31,765 Speaker 1: I called a polygraph examiner and asked if marijuana can 458 00:26:31,805 --> 00:26:35,165 Speaker 1: make you fail a light detector test. He said, without 459 00:26:35,165 --> 00:26:38,725 Speaker 1: a doubt, marijuana cannot make you pass or fail. What 460 00:26:38,805 --> 00:26:41,965 Speaker 1: was their relationship like his and Becca's far as a 461 00:26:42,045 --> 00:26:45,205 Speaker 1: no good? I mean, I do know they had some 462 00:26:45,325 --> 00:26:47,325 Speaker 1: issues as far as, like, you know, staying together, because 463 00:26:47,325 --> 00:26:49,725 Speaker 1: I guess there were some other guys that it was 464 00:26:49,725 --> 00:26:52,205 Speaker 1: in a relationship before Casey and you know, so there 465 00:26:52,205 --> 00:26:54,365 Speaker 1: would be breaks up, breakups and stuff like that to 466 00:26:54,365 --> 00:26:56,605 Speaker 1: where she would go back with one of them. But 467 00:26:57,565 --> 00:26:58,925 Speaker 1: far as I know, there at the end they were 468 00:26:58,925 --> 00:27:01,445 Speaker 1: doing great. He was pretty distraught about it. I mean, 469 00:27:01,445 --> 00:27:03,005 Speaker 1: like I said, for a long time and when we 470 00:27:03,045 --> 00:27:05,005 Speaker 1: lived with us, he was he was scared to even 471 00:27:05,005 --> 00:27:06,885 Speaker 1: be at the house by himself, you know, because he 472 00:27:06,885 --> 00:27:11,845 Speaker 1: didn't know what or who happened to her. Of course, 473 00:27:12,165 --> 00:27:14,685 Speaker 1: you know, of course we all had our suspicions about 474 00:27:14,805 --> 00:27:16,965 Speaker 1: some certain individuals out of the mountain view and everything. 475 00:27:18,845 --> 00:27:20,565 Speaker 1: But like I said, he didn't of course, you know 476 00:27:20,805 --> 00:27:22,125 Speaker 1: what if they come after me, you know what if 477 00:27:22,125 --> 00:27:23,965 Speaker 1: they have any things like that. So he was always 478 00:27:24,005 --> 00:27:26,245 Speaker 1: bearing not I remember first couple of nights and stuff. 479 00:27:26,285 --> 00:27:28,165 Speaker 1: For the first couple of weeks that he actually stayed 480 00:27:28,165 --> 00:27:30,485 Speaker 1: with us, he wouldn't go in the trailer. If we 481 00:27:30,485 --> 00:27:32,405 Speaker 1: were gone, like a convas with something, we'd come back. 482 00:27:32,605 --> 00:27:35,445 Speaker 1: I would go into the trailer, check everything, make sure 483 00:27:36,045 --> 00:27:38,205 Speaker 1: you know, no one's hiding out of there. What happened 484 00:27:38,205 --> 00:27:40,725 Speaker 1: to the trailer? Ever? Is it still there that he 485 00:27:40,765 --> 00:27:43,325 Speaker 1: lives in it now? Back in he didn't live there 486 00:27:43,325 --> 00:27:45,205 Speaker 1: for like I said, a couple of years. At least 487 00:27:45,285 --> 00:27:48,125 Speaker 1: his dad still live there. Then I guess his grandpa 488 00:27:49,005 --> 00:27:51,005 Speaker 1: ended up going into like some top of nursing home 489 00:27:51,085 --> 00:27:53,325 Speaker 1: or something. So his dad moved out of the trailer, 490 00:27:53,405 --> 00:27:57,085 Speaker 1: moved in with moved into his panpa's the place. Just 491 00:27:57,085 --> 00:27:59,965 Speaker 1: to clarify, Casey is living in the house that his 492 00:28:00,005 --> 00:28:02,645 Speaker 1: girlfriend was murdered in. Well, then, Casey I believed that 493 00:28:02,725 --> 00:28:05,845 Speaker 1: the times actually there's a cabin on the same property 494 00:28:05,925 --> 00:28:08,525 Speaker 1: is down all he was standing living down there for 495 00:28:08,525 --> 00:28:11,045 Speaker 1: a little while and he ended up being his wife 496 00:28:11,085 --> 00:28:16,085 Speaker 1: that he's with now, Hannah. And then after they started 497 00:28:16,085 --> 00:28:17,725 Speaker 1: getting married and they found out theory and I have 498 00:28:17,765 --> 00:28:20,325 Speaker 1: a kid, they moved into the trailer last living ever since. 499 00:28:20,645 --> 00:28:22,645 Speaker 1: What sort of Casey theory or your theory about who 500 00:28:22,645 --> 00:28:26,325 Speaker 1: did it? So? I'm not real good with names. I 501 00:28:26,325 --> 00:28:30,405 Speaker 1: don't remember names. It's hard hard to remember them. But 502 00:28:30,485 --> 00:28:35,605 Speaker 1: of course there was one of my old bosses, what 503 00:28:35,725 --> 00:28:42,125 Speaker 1: was her name, female, Jennifer, Yes, yes, Jennifer. And there 504 00:28:42,165 --> 00:28:44,405 Speaker 1: was one other, but I didn't know that individual. I 505 00:28:44,445 --> 00:28:46,965 Speaker 1: guess it was from what I understand was her dealer 506 00:28:47,005 --> 00:28:50,125 Speaker 1: at the time. Sounds like Patrick is just regurgitating all 507 00:28:50,125 --> 00:28:54,085 Speaker 1: the rumors. So what is Casey's theory? You know? I 508 00:28:54,125 --> 00:28:56,165 Speaker 1: think about it, especially whenever I see stuff on Facebook 509 00:28:56,165 --> 00:28:59,205 Speaker 1: about it and stuff like that. I remember about a 510 00:28:59,285 --> 00:29:01,605 Speaker 1: year ago, year and a half, two years ago. I 511 00:29:01,685 --> 00:29:03,205 Speaker 1: don't seem like I was that long. I saw the 512 00:29:03,245 --> 00:29:06,205 Speaker 1: thing pop up on Facebook where they talk about how 513 00:29:06,205 --> 00:29:08,205 Speaker 1: they had a lot more leads about they heard some 514 00:29:08,925 --> 00:29:11,125 Speaker 1: college students and stuff over and it was our college 515 00:29:11,285 --> 00:29:14,805 Speaker 1: talking and stuff talking about them committing the crowd and everything. 516 00:29:15,445 --> 00:29:17,085 Speaker 1: So I was hoping. I think, okay, well great, you 517 00:29:17,085 --> 00:29:19,605 Speaker 1: know it's finally going to again too. I was really 518 00:29:19,725 --> 00:29:22,365 Speaker 1: you know, but and then just got off nothing. Yeah, 519 00:29:22,565 --> 00:29:24,725 Speaker 1: i'd heard, and everyone's related and everybody. It's just a 520 00:29:24,805 --> 00:29:30,325 Speaker 1: tough it's difficult to untangle. I've never once thought Casey right, 521 00:29:30,445 --> 00:29:33,085 Speaker 1: never once, just because I've been friends with him so long. 522 00:29:34,605 --> 00:29:39,685 Speaker 1: But almost seemed like the person had been at the 523 00:29:39,685 --> 00:29:42,085 Speaker 1: house before, because I knew where everything was at cleaning supplies, 524 00:29:42,205 --> 00:29:44,445 Speaker 1: you know, things like that using the watcher. It just 525 00:29:44,445 --> 00:29:46,525 Speaker 1: seems odd to me that someone feel comfortable enough to 526 00:29:46,525 --> 00:29:49,045 Speaker 1: stay there at the house end that much time. Thank 527 00:29:49,085 --> 00:29:51,485 Speaker 1: you very much. It was one number, and yeah, I 528 00:29:51,485 --> 00:29:54,525 Speaker 1: feel think of anything. Family, I'm glad to go to 529 00:29:54,565 --> 00:29:57,205 Speaker 1: somebody's actually looking at it. Yeah, I'm on I'll connect 530 00:29:57,285 --> 00:29:59,045 Speaker 1: on Facebook. I'm on Facebook too, and we do like 531 00:29:59,125 --> 00:30:08,565 Speaker 1: updates and stuff. But sure, Yeah, I met Casey when 532 00:30:08,605 --> 00:30:12,205 Speaker 1: he was with Rebecca. I think we're at Tiffany's graduation 533 00:30:12,285 --> 00:30:18,245 Speaker 1: in Fabelle and all my kids were there and Casey 534 00:30:18,405 --> 00:30:22,245 Speaker 1: came with Rebecca, and so I met him there. Other 535 00:30:22,245 --> 00:30:26,005 Speaker 1: than that, I don't think I had met him before. 536 00:30:26,325 --> 00:30:29,365 Speaker 1: I don't remember because it was just you know, yeah, 537 00:30:29,445 --> 00:30:32,325 Speaker 1: it was I was involved with Tiffany, and but there 538 00:30:32,325 --> 00:30:35,405 Speaker 1: were photographs and I just don't I don't remember having 539 00:30:35,405 --> 00:30:40,325 Speaker 1: an impression of them. Rebecca's father didn't know Casey very well. 540 00:30:40,885 --> 00:30:43,965 Speaker 1: They only met once. I mean, did you see him 541 00:30:43,965 --> 00:30:48,645 Speaker 1: at all that week? No, not that I recall. But 542 00:30:48,925 --> 00:30:51,205 Speaker 1: you have to remember that I didn't know some of 543 00:30:51,205 --> 00:30:56,085 Speaker 1: these people. I would be introduced to some people and 544 00:30:56,245 --> 00:30:59,605 Speaker 1: then I could place them, but there was there were 545 00:31:00,285 --> 00:31:02,405 Speaker 1: there were so many people out there that were helping 546 00:31:03,565 --> 00:31:06,805 Speaker 1: that I was introduced to. And of course we were 547 00:31:07,365 --> 00:31:09,925 Speaker 1: you know, you're just you have tunnel vision. You're just 548 00:31:10,005 --> 00:31:12,125 Speaker 1: not looking at Hey, this person over here could be 549 00:31:12,125 --> 00:31:17,085 Speaker 1: the killer. I'm pretty sure that Justin was there, and 550 00:31:17,725 --> 00:31:20,885 Speaker 1: I think Justin was there with his new girlfriend who 551 00:31:20,965 --> 00:31:25,805 Speaker 1: was pregnant, and I believe I got introduced to her. 552 00:31:28,845 --> 00:31:33,165 Speaker 1: And aside from that, we just went off looking and searching. 553 00:31:33,205 --> 00:31:38,325 Speaker 1: So nothing, nothing made any sense. But then then everything's gray. 554 00:31:38,885 --> 00:31:41,365 Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I know, Casey got back 555 00:31:41,365 --> 00:31:47,725 Speaker 1: in the trailer and the things were unlocked. It was 556 00:31:47,845 --> 00:31:50,965 Speaker 1: left in a state where somebody could come in and out. 557 00:31:52,125 --> 00:31:55,525 Speaker 1: But if these other state police guys came, they would 558 00:31:55,525 --> 00:32:00,045 Speaker 1: have known enough to to, you know, kind of set 559 00:32:00,125 --> 00:32:02,805 Speaker 1: up a perimeter around it or something where people couldn't 560 00:32:03,005 --> 00:32:04,965 Speaker 1: be there. But and why they didn't, I don't know. 561 00:32:05,925 --> 00:32:08,285 Speaker 1: It could be that it was because the jurisdiction is 562 00:32:08,285 --> 00:32:11,965 Speaker 1: set up initially that it's the sheriff's department, and that 563 00:32:12,045 --> 00:32:14,685 Speaker 1: at some point it gets turned over to the state 564 00:32:14,725 --> 00:32:19,765 Speaker 1: Police at the request of the sheriff's department, And how 565 00:32:19,845 --> 00:32:23,045 Speaker 1: much time went by until that happened could have been days. 566 00:32:23,845 --> 00:32:27,245 Speaker 1: According to multiple sources, Casey walked in and out of 567 00:32:27,245 --> 00:32:31,245 Speaker 1: the crime scene. Former Izard County Sheriff Joe Martz talked 568 00:32:31,245 --> 00:32:34,285 Speaker 1: to Ak Barnes in twenty sixteen about the crime scene. 569 00:32:34,605 --> 00:32:36,965 Speaker 1: He was open about the fact that the local sheriff's 570 00:32:36,965 --> 00:32:41,485 Speaker 1: office was overwhelmed. He said that investigators spent thirteen hours 571 00:32:41,525 --> 00:32:44,565 Speaker 1: inside the house bagging evidence, so many that he had 572 00:32:44,565 --> 00:32:47,125 Speaker 1: to go to Miller's grocery store to get more paper 573 00:32:47,165 --> 00:32:49,405 Speaker 1: bags and boxes to send to the state crime lab. 574 00:32:50,285 --> 00:32:52,605 Speaker 1: He said that they took hundreds of items from the 575 00:32:52,645 --> 00:32:55,605 Speaker 1: trailer and turned the case over to the Arkansas State Police. 576 00:32:56,525 --> 00:32:59,165 Speaker 1: Larry has also heard the rumors that Casey went home 577 00:32:59,205 --> 00:33:01,765 Speaker 1: at some point before returning to the crime scene on 578 00:33:01,845 --> 00:33:05,485 Speaker 1: Tuesday with the police. I wonder where this rumor originated. 579 00:33:06,405 --> 00:33:09,205 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure Danielle told me her mom called the police. 580 00:33:09,525 --> 00:33:11,565 Speaker 1: Have to look back at everything to make sure. But 581 00:33:11,925 --> 00:33:14,685 Speaker 1: also there was a note that her mom had gotten 582 00:33:14,725 --> 00:33:17,045 Speaker 1: a call from Casey that was alarming about the stuff 583 00:33:17,085 --> 00:33:19,925 Speaker 1: being in the house, but she wasn't. Her stuff was there, 584 00:33:19,965 --> 00:33:22,125 Speaker 1: but she wasn't, So I guess I'm just wondering, was 585 00:33:22,205 --> 00:33:23,805 Speaker 1: that while the police were there or could that have 586 00:33:23,805 --> 00:33:25,565 Speaker 1: been If that was before the police got there, then 587 00:33:25,565 --> 00:33:27,605 Speaker 1: that means that he went home before the police got there, 588 00:33:27,645 --> 00:33:30,325 Speaker 1: and that would conflict with the story he told the 589 00:33:30,325 --> 00:33:33,205 Speaker 1: police where heard the two stories that he that he 590 00:33:33,285 --> 00:33:37,125 Speaker 1: went home and actually went into the trailer before anybody 591 00:33:37,245 --> 00:33:41,965 Speaker 1: knew anything. And I don't know, if you can't talk 592 00:33:42,005 --> 00:33:46,605 Speaker 1: to him, you can't pin it down now, he told 593 00:33:45,965 --> 00:33:52,205 Speaker 1: he called either Danielle or her mother, and he also 594 00:33:52,285 --> 00:33:55,165 Speaker 1: just said, aple of people, it's on it. Yeah. So 595 00:33:55,205 --> 00:33:57,445 Speaker 1: that's what we're working on out because as soon as 596 00:33:57,485 --> 00:34:00,765 Speaker 1: we can get someone saying, as soon as we have 597 00:34:00,805 --> 00:34:02,485 Speaker 1: someone nailing down saying that he said that, I mean 598 00:34:02,485 --> 00:34:06,005 Speaker 1: that totally the reason in my opinion, he was written 599 00:34:06,005 --> 00:34:09,885 Speaker 1: off as his suspects early is because of the altby. 600 00:34:10,005 --> 00:34:11,845 Speaker 1: He supposedly had this alby and he was gone the 601 00:34:11,885 --> 00:34:14,005 Speaker 1: whole night and multiple witnesses and all this. So if 602 00:34:14,045 --> 00:34:16,485 Speaker 1: we can show that he there's a hole in that, 603 00:34:16,565 --> 00:34:19,605 Speaker 1: then I mean there's something weird about his story no 604 00:34:19,605 --> 00:34:25,845 Speaker 1: matter what. So yeah, and even the various descriptions of 605 00:34:25,885 --> 00:34:30,165 Speaker 1: what the trailer was like, I have something in writing 606 00:34:30,285 --> 00:34:32,845 Speaker 1: that one of the loustters that came in later said 607 00:34:32,885 --> 00:34:38,765 Speaker 1: the thing was just what was his expression? Not disheveled, 608 00:34:38,805 --> 00:34:43,565 Speaker 1: it was can't think of the term, but it was 609 00:34:43,805 --> 00:34:47,405 Speaker 1: a mess. And then you have others that said that said, well, 610 00:34:47,645 --> 00:34:52,885 Speaker 1: I didn't notice anything, So I can't believe the case 611 00:34:52,885 --> 00:34:57,605 Speaker 1: He would have could have gone there and have Rebecca's 612 00:34:57,605 --> 00:35:02,445 Speaker 1: car there perse there obviously some other things were there 613 00:35:02,485 --> 00:35:06,845 Speaker 1: that we know now, and he didn't that something was wrong, 614 00:35:08,405 --> 00:35:10,165 Speaker 1: and then all the other things that you know about 615 00:35:11,205 --> 00:35:17,285 Speaker 1: just doesn't make any sense. Casey shut down, and Casey 616 00:35:17,365 --> 00:35:22,845 Speaker 1: to me still has to be one of the primary suspects. 617 00:35:23,405 --> 00:35:25,525 Speaker 1: And the fact that he won't come forward and spend 618 00:35:25,565 --> 00:35:29,845 Speaker 1: time really talking to people and going through things and 619 00:35:31,125 --> 00:35:34,085 Speaker 1: showing his innocence and answering questions, a lot of the 620 00:35:34,125 --> 00:35:36,565 Speaker 1: answers that I've seen in written form, answers that I've 621 00:35:36,565 --> 00:35:40,485 Speaker 1: seen in and just responses he's given other people conflict. 622 00:35:40,845 --> 00:35:44,365 Speaker 1: According to Larry, the events after Rebecca went missing or 623 00:35:44,365 --> 00:35:49,285 Speaker 1: a blur. Remember George Jared described him taping up Rebecca's 624 00:35:49,325 --> 00:35:52,885 Speaker 1: missing poster over road signs on the Highway. It's obvious 625 00:35:52,885 --> 00:35:56,525 Speaker 1: that he was devastated by Rebecca's death. Both Patrick and 626 00:35:56,645 --> 00:36:00,605 Speaker 1: George mentioned the fact that Casey was distraught after Rebecca's murder. 627 00:36:01,325 --> 00:36:04,525 Speaker 1: And we know that trauma can make people behave irrationally. 628 00:36:05,565 --> 00:36:10,165 Speaker 1: We now know that justin, Jennifer, Chris and JB were 629 00:36:10,205 --> 00:36:14,365 Speaker 1: all around, all of them searched for Rebecca, all of 630 00:36:14,405 --> 00:36:20,645 Speaker 1: them except Casey. Now it's just becoming a glowing red flag. 631 00:36:20,805 --> 00:36:24,205 Speaker 1: Every single person. Chris and these guys have so much 632 00:36:24,245 --> 00:36:26,045 Speaker 1: to lose if they say the wrong thing. And they're 633 00:36:26,125 --> 00:36:29,925 Speaker 1: still cooperating, right, all these guys. The one that's not 634 00:36:30,165 --> 00:36:33,085 Speaker 1: is Casey. We did get to one of Casey's friends, 635 00:36:33,485 --> 00:36:36,405 Speaker 1: but I really think it's the Sonic people who hold 636 00:36:36,445 --> 00:36:39,485 Speaker 1: the key to if or when or how Casey may 637 00:36:39,525 --> 00:36:41,965 Speaker 1: have gone home on Monday. Nobody seems to know shit 638 00:36:42,005 --> 00:36:43,845 Speaker 1: about Casey, who's in this friend group. By the way, 639 00:36:43,845 --> 00:36:45,885 Speaker 1: they didn't even really know Rebecca was Datingum. And he's like, 640 00:36:45,885 --> 00:36:47,525 Speaker 1: I didn't know that guy. I think I met him once. 641 00:36:48,525 --> 00:36:52,325 Speaker 1: And Chris is like, you know, I didn't know where 642 00:36:52,325 --> 00:36:53,845 Speaker 1: that cat. I didn't even know where that place was. 643 00:36:53,885 --> 00:36:56,045 Speaker 1: I'd never been there, told the police I'd never been there. 644 00:36:56,085 --> 00:36:57,725 Speaker 1: And that's like a bold statement. He's like, take my 645 00:36:57,805 --> 00:37:00,925 Speaker 1: DNA because I've never been there. None of these people 646 00:37:00,965 --> 00:37:03,085 Speaker 1: went to that cabin. Not only that, but they just 647 00:37:03,085 --> 00:37:06,285 Speaker 1: don't look like people that would mesh at all. Because 648 00:37:06,365 --> 00:37:08,245 Speaker 1: we were kind of talking about it, Casey's like, he's 649 00:37:08,245 --> 00:37:10,925 Speaker 1: in a band, he's kind of he was a little 650 00:37:10,965 --> 00:37:14,845 Speaker 1: bit more. He was a hipstery hipstory dude. You know, 651 00:37:14,965 --> 00:37:17,485 Speaker 1: like smoke Pot went to Larren's house of smoke pot, 652 00:37:17,685 --> 00:37:20,245 Speaker 1: like playing a band, Like you said, yeah, pot was 653 00:37:20,285 --> 00:37:23,085 Speaker 1: the drug of choice rather than meth, and like you 654 00:37:23,085 --> 00:37:27,725 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Yeah, yeah, surely, yeah, Casey, definitely. Yeah. 655 00:37:27,725 --> 00:37:29,205 Speaker 1: They just didn't mix. They just didn't. They were in 656 00:37:29,205 --> 00:37:32,085 Speaker 1: different cities, different groups of people. This whole rumor that 657 00:37:32,085 --> 00:37:34,165 Speaker 1: they were all partying at that house just never happened. 658 00:37:34,165 --> 00:37:37,485 Speaker 1: That never happened. As far as I know, Casey's not 659 00:37:37,525 --> 00:37:42,605 Speaker 1: even real, right, Yeah, he could just be a fake 660 00:37:42,645 --> 00:37:48,125 Speaker 1: Facebook account, you know, like you're right, there's there's literally 661 00:37:48,125 --> 00:37:50,925 Speaker 1: it's like a ghost hound. Then all of a sudden, 662 00:37:51,445 --> 00:37:56,485 Speaker 1: our ghost appears. Casey sends me a Facebook message. He 663 00:37:56,605 --> 00:37:58,805 Speaker 1: tells me he doesn't want to talk and that he 664 00:37:58,845 --> 00:38:02,405 Speaker 1: has a family he needs to protect. He declines to 665 00:38:02,405 --> 00:38:04,765 Speaker 1: speak with me and makes it clear that the only 666 00:38:04,805 --> 00:38:08,045 Speaker 1: people he will with moving forward are the police. It 667 00:38:08,085 --> 00:38:10,845 Speaker 1: looks like if we're going to find out more about Casey, 668 00:38:11,005 --> 00:38:14,045 Speaker 1: it's not going to be from him. Oh yeah, no, listen, 669 00:38:14,245 --> 00:38:18,405 Speaker 1: it would because we've heard obviously, like we've heard some 670 00:38:18,445 --> 00:38:21,765 Speaker 1: of these names. I'm sure in some rumors. But if 671 00:38:22,285 --> 00:38:26,085 Speaker 1: the person who actually heard people talking about it is yeah, 672 00:38:26,125 --> 00:38:35,405 Speaker 1: that's really valuable. And I mean, no, listen, I really 673 00:38:35,445 --> 00:38:37,805 Speaker 1: really appreciate. I mean I wonder, I mean, did did 674 00:38:37,845 --> 00:38:43,525 Speaker 1: Casey have any theories about who did it? Over the years? Yeah, 675 00:38:43,525 --> 00:38:46,085 Speaker 1: because that's been that has actually been one of the 676 00:38:46,085 --> 00:38:48,365 Speaker 1: things that struck us about it, that the you know, 677 00:38:48,445 --> 00:38:50,485 Speaker 1: that place is so remote, you know what I mean, 678 00:38:50,525 --> 00:38:53,365 Speaker 1: It's like, who would know who'd be able to know 679 00:38:53,445 --> 00:38:56,245 Speaker 1: that it was there? That's been kind of a from 680 00:38:56,325 --> 00:39:01,925 Speaker 1: the beginning, you know. All right, thank you so much. 681 00:39:03,765 --> 00:39:10,565 Speaker 1: All right, thanks bye. Okay, that was extremely interesting. This 682 00:39:10,645 --> 00:39:16,405 Speaker 1: is Casey's best friend. Interesting for reasons other than you know, 683 00:39:16,445 --> 00:39:18,005 Speaker 1: it's not like, oh he thinks he did it. No, 684 00:39:18,125 --> 00:39:21,245 Speaker 1: it's this is his best friend. He basically lived in 685 00:39:21,285 --> 00:39:24,845 Speaker 1: that house at the time, lived in that trailer. You know, 686 00:39:24,925 --> 00:39:28,445 Speaker 1: he was there all the time. I was very I 687 00:39:28,485 --> 00:39:30,525 Speaker 1: wanted to ask him way more questions, but he was 688 00:39:30,605 --> 00:39:32,765 Speaker 1: kind of like kind of had to go. And anyway, 689 00:39:33,445 --> 00:39:36,605 Speaker 1: he basically he works around town. He is a coworker 690 00:39:36,725 --> 00:39:41,205 Speaker 1: who he said, this guy said he heard the other 691 00:39:41,325 --> 00:39:44,005 Speaker 1: day about the case getting reopened, so that's obviously through 692 00:39:44,005 --> 00:39:47,005 Speaker 1: our stuff, and he was talking about it with the 693 00:39:47,005 --> 00:39:49,365 Speaker 1: co worker, and the co worker sort of said that 694 00:39:49,405 --> 00:39:51,325 Speaker 1: he heard it a party, that it was a group 695 00:39:51,365 --> 00:39:54,125 Speaker 1: of people who did it, and was given details and things. 696 00:39:54,765 --> 00:39:58,565 Speaker 1: But interestingly, he was out of town for like three 697 00:39:58,645 --> 00:40:02,165 Speaker 1: days during the murder. He was working on a tugboat, 698 00:40:02,165 --> 00:40:06,045 Speaker 1: I think, he said. But when he got back he 699 00:40:06,085 --> 00:40:10,205 Speaker 1: said Casey was staying with his sister. And he also 700 00:40:10,325 --> 00:40:14,965 Speaker 1: said that Casey cried in his arms about it, and 701 00:40:15,045 --> 00:40:19,445 Speaker 1: you know, it was just all upset, right, But he said, 702 00:40:20,565 --> 00:40:22,725 Speaker 1: you know, really it really got to me. That cabin 703 00:40:22,845 --> 00:40:25,125 Speaker 1: so remote, nobody knows where the hell that place is. 704 00:40:25,205 --> 00:40:27,165 Speaker 1: You know. He was literally saying that, and he goes, 705 00:40:27,325 --> 00:40:30,405 Speaker 1: I straight out asked him, did you do it? He said, 706 00:40:30,445 --> 00:40:32,085 Speaker 1: friend of friend, did you do it? And then he 707 00:40:32,125 --> 00:40:33,805 Speaker 1: kind of went off and he goes, of course he 708 00:40:33,925 --> 00:40:35,525 Speaker 1: was at work, so blah blah. He just kind of 709 00:40:35,565 --> 00:40:38,005 Speaker 1: went off. But I'm thinking, like, like you can feel 710 00:40:38,005 --> 00:40:40,965 Speaker 1: the wheels turning. He said, they were still really close, 711 00:40:41,085 --> 00:40:45,445 Speaker 1: but like because Casey had a girlfriend, see, and everyone 712 00:40:45,485 --> 00:40:49,725 Speaker 1: in Casey's life refers to Rebecca as the girlfriend, but 713 00:40:49,805 --> 00:40:52,285 Speaker 1: everyone in Rebecca's life refers to Casey's just like some 714 00:40:52,445 --> 00:40:55,645 Speaker 1: random guy who's like around and he's like, well no, 715 00:40:55,805 --> 00:41:00,005 Speaker 1: He's like he it was just really painful, and I'm sorry. 716 00:41:00,245 --> 00:41:03,965 Speaker 1: If your girlfriend got fucking murdered in your house, You're 717 00:41:04,005 --> 00:41:06,085 Speaker 1: gonna solve it. You're gonna We're gonna be like us 718 00:41:06,165 --> 00:41:08,765 Speaker 1: times one hundred on steroids. You're gonna be like, I'm 719 00:41:08,805 --> 00:41:10,765 Speaker 1: gonna solve this. I'm gonna find out who did this 720 00:41:11,445 --> 00:41:13,325 Speaker 1: in my house, who came into my house and killed 721 00:41:13,365 --> 00:41:15,685 Speaker 1: my girlfriend. You're not gonna be fired up. I mean, 722 00:41:15,725 --> 00:41:17,965 Speaker 1: I get you go through Peter Greek. But after a while, 723 00:41:19,285 --> 00:41:24,485 Speaker 1: you notice everyone else we've spoken to Chris JB. Everyone 724 00:41:25,085 --> 00:41:28,285 Speaker 1: has theories or at least an idea of what even 725 00:41:28,285 --> 00:41:30,685 Speaker 1: if if they don't know. They sit there and say, 726 00:41:31,045 --> 00:41:33,285 Speaker 1: you know, I've thought about it for countless hours. It's 727 00:41:33,325 --> 00:41:40,325 Speaker 1: haunted me. And yet this is Casey's best friend saying, well, no, 728 00:41:40,445 --> 00:41:41,765 Speaker 1: I kind of wait for him to bring it up. No, 729 00:41:41,805 --> 00:41:43,605 Speaker 1: he didn't really have any theory. You're gonna tell me. 730 00:41:43,685 --> 00:41:45,765 Speaker 1: I mean, if it were me and it was my boyfriend, 731 00:41:45,805 --> 00:41:47,445 Speaker 1: I would have a murder board in my house, and 732 00:41:47,485 --> 00:41:49,005 Speaker 1: I would probably like I'd be like the guy in 733 00:41:49,045 --> 00:41:51,805 Speaker 1: the Vanishing, you know who, like took a hotel room 734 00:41:51,845 --> 00:41:54,525 Speaker 1: and put red strings everywhere. I do think that there 735 00:41:54,525 --> 00:41:58,285 Speaker 1: are people who feature in this tale who may have 736 00:41:58,485 --> 00:42:00,765 Speaker 1: at one point bragged about it or may have known 737 00:42:00,805 --> 00:42:02,765 Speaker 1: people because just because they were either because they're trying 738 00:42:02,765 --> 00:42:05,325 Speaker 1: to look hard and tough. I could even see Jennifer, 739 00:42:05,685 --> 00:42:07,885 Speaker 1: even though even if she had nothing to do with it, 740 00:42:08,005 --> 00:42:09,885 Speaker 1: She's got this hard bitch image, do you know what 741 00:42:09,925 --> 00:42:13,285 Speaker 1: I mean? So I can see her plan. I don't 742 00:42:13,325 --> 00:42:15,565 Speaker 1: see a downside to kind of I see why, I 743 00:42:15,605 --> 00:42:17,565 Speaker 1: see why that would happen. I'm not saying it did, 744 00:42:17,645 --> 00:42:21,085 Speaker 1: but I'm just saying when he told me, he asked 745 00:42:21,125 --> 00:42:22,965 Speaker 1: his friend and then he on his own brought up 746 00:42:23,045 --> 00:42:26,125 Speaker 1: the remoteness of that location. Of course he was at work. 747 00:42:26,245 --> 00:42:27,725 Speaker 1: Is not really what you want to hear. You want 748 00:42:27,765 --> 00:42:29,325 Speaker 1: to hear. There's no way im for could have done that. 749 00:42:30,205 --> 00:42:32,405 Speaker 1: You know, he doesn't have it and he never would 750 00:42:32,405 --> 00:42:37,125 Speaker 1: have hurt anybody, not while he was at work. Oh Catherine, 751 00:42:37,805 --> 00:42:39,765 Speaker 1: here's the other thing that really bothers me about this 752 00:42:39,765 --> 00:42:43,165 Speaker 1: whole investigation has since to start. In part of your 753 00:42:43,245 --> 00:42:46,165 Speaker 1: victimology profile, you're supposed to interview the people closest to 754 00:42:46,165 --> 00:42:48,645 Speaker 1: the victim. And I don't know if the police talk 755 00:42:48,725 --> 00:42:51,285 Speaker 1: to Danielle or and by the way, she's a trauma victim, 756 00:42:51,365 --> 00:42:52,845 Speaker 1: so like at the time it should have been done 757 00:42:52,885 --> 00:42:55,525 Speaker 1: in a way like a very sensitive you know, you 758 00:42:55,605 --> 00:42:59,405 Speaker 1: gotta be really careful with trauma victims, and you know 759 00:42:59,445 --> 00:43:01,845 Speaker 1: this is the person that your best Okay, And I'm 760 00:43:01,885 --> 00:43:06,045 Speaker 1: just not sure that they ever. Don't think they ever 761 00:43:06,125 --> 00:43:08,325 Speaker 1: got anything about the temper or you know, any of 762 00:43:08,325 --> 00:43:13,325 Speaker 1: these things about Casey. I just I don't even know 763 00:43:13,325 --> 00:43:14,725 Speaker 1: if they ever I don't know if they questioned her, 764 00:43:15,005 --> 00:43:38,285 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm Katherine Townsend and this is Helen Gone. 765 00:43:40,485 --> 00:43:43,645 Speaker 1: Helen Gone is a joint production between How Stuff Works 766 00:43:43,845 --> 00:43:46,965 Speaker 1: in School of Humans. It is written and recorded by me, 767 00:43:47,405 --> 00:43:51,125 Speaker 1: Catherine Townsend. Taylor Church is our producer and story editor. 768 00:43:51,725 --> 00:43:56,045 Speaker 1: Audio editing and designed by Jonathan Sleeve, mix engineer Glenn 769 00:43:56,085 --> 00:44:01,525 Speaker 1: Mattulo audio mixing and love by Tunewelders. Executive producers Brandon 770 00:44:01,525 --> 00:44:04,805 Speaker 1: Barr and Else Crowley for School of Humans and Connell 771 00:44:04,845 --> 00:44:08,765 Speaker 1: Byrne and Bryant for How Stuff Works. Our field producer 772 00:44:08,965 --> 00:44:14,245 Speaker 1: is James Morrison. Our researcher is Sandy Klosterman. Themon original 773 00:44:14,285 --> 00:44:17,925 Speaker 1: score by Ben Solee available wherever you get your music. 774 00:44:20,685 --> 00:44:25,365 Speaker 1: To dig into the investigation, please visit helengonepodcast dot com 775 00:44:25,485 --> 00:44:41,525 Speaker 1: or follow us on social media. School of Humans