WEBVTT - The Middle Class: Canary in the Gold Mine? 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.680 Welcome to Stuff You should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.600 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.919 Chuck and Jerry's here to us sitting in for a 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.480 good old fashioned stuff you should know episode. 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:23.680 That's right, not one of those new fangled ones. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:26.440 No, no, not one of the new ones that are 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:30.880 just like you know, all hair gel and yeah, you know, style, 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:31.800 no substance. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.040 It still has that new podcast episode smell. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.839 Yes for sure. Speaking of new Smell, how do you 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:40.760 feel being fifty five? Birthday boy? 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.279 New smell? You know, it's great. I think I have 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.599 actual privileges now that come with it. 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:52.160 That age, like cheap coffee at McDonald's that kind of stuff. 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:54.760 Yeah, I don't know about McDonald's, but like I think 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:57.920 I think I can play golf for a little cheaper now, 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:02.360 like literally as this your rate, which is that's hysterical. 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:07.000 Yeah, well I think you can get an AARP membership 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:07.400 now too. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:09.959 Oh yeah, I mean you're probably already getting that stuff 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:11.400 in the mail, right. They start early. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.200 H No, I'm not even fifty yet. They won't let me. 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:16.959 I keep applying and they keep denying. 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:18.920 Okay, maybe fifty. I mean they start sending in that 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:19.959 stuff years ahead. 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:22.759 Yeah, we used to have when you had to get 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.240 it for work or something like that. But they found out, 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:27.800 you know, what our age is, and they got really mad. 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.640 They said, we've been spending sending things to spring chickens. 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:34.800 But yeah, well, let me know how the golf thing goes, 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.720 and if you get cheap coffee at McDonald's, and what 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.679 being a senior is like, Chuck, because you know, I 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.120 think for me and Jerry and everybody, we just want 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:44.320 to wish you a happy birthday. 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:45.199 I appreciate that. 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.000 People went bonkers on Instagram. 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:49.000 Oh yeah, was that you? 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:51.400 Yeah, of course. 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.960 I figured, you know what my uncle, My uncle wished 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:54.800 you a happy birthday? 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.040 Did he on that post? I didn't see that. 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.200 Yeah, it's pretty funny. Then THO was a confusing series 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.080 of texts where he was finally like, is it your birthday? 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.000 It was like those a few days ago. 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:11.440 Sure, he said, who is this? Yeah exactly, he said, McGovern, 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:18.840 not mcguffin, no McGovern. Okay, all right, let's start talking, 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:23.640 because we're talking about the middle class in America at least, 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.000 although this definitely extends to other countries like the UK, 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:32.560 some of the Nordic countries, Australia, there's not an obsession 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:37.880 but a real like obsession with the middle class, how 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:42.640 it's doing, how mobile it is, upwardly, downwardly, and there's 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.840 it's essentially the middle class is like the thumbnail metric 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:50.720 for the health, the real, true health of a society 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:51.880 and economy. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.280 Would you agree, Yeah, I mean I think so. And 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.480 I think that used to be a real like it's 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:01.440 always been a talking point in the United States, but 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:03.720 I think it used to be a real, genuine talking point, 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:08.240 whereas now I think it's like, you know, are all 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.040 the rich people doing great? Okay, all right, now let's 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.080 talk publicly a little bit about the middle class, I 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:14.280 guess right. 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.400 But not everybody's fallen for that. There's like this whole 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.000 idea that the middle class and the health of the 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.560 middle class was a canary in the coal mine. Yeah, 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.160 and not only is the canary dead, it caught fire 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.200 at some point as far as a lot of people 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.239 are concerned about the United States middle class at least 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.800 because there's this idea that it's dead. But then if 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.080 you read up a little further on it, you come 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.400 across other people who are like, no, no, dude, look 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.760 at these statistics, like the middle class is actually doing great, 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.720 way better than they used to be doing, and other 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.960 people are like that just doesn't quite add up. So 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.840 when you get into it, it's really tough to define 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.640 the middle class. And you can monkey around with who's 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.600 middle class or who's not and come up with all 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.120 sorts of different profiles. But I think it just matters 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.600 what people who would probably self identify as the middle 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.800 class feel about the economy and about their prospects in life. 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:14.320 Yeah, for sure. Like what is that the vibe session? Yeah? 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.760 What was her name, Kyla Scanlon. She's a kind of 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:21.839 a gen Z financial explanatory journalist. Yeah. 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.520 Yeah, so that's the idea of like sort of like 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.320 not falling for being gas lit by everything you're being 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.200 told about how great it's going. And there's something called 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.279 a vibe session. Am I saying that? 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:33.560 Right? 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:34.240 Yeah? 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:34.960 Vibe session? 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.279 It just sounds weird because a vibe session sounds like, 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:39.279 you know, something I do late on Friday nights. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.080 Right, This is with a C instead of an S. 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:46.760 Yeah exactly, and it's much less ire. Yeah, oh man, 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:51.640 But yeah, the idea of you know, various politicians, you know, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:56.800 whenever anyone's running for something talking about typically reelection, talking 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.560 about how great everything really is, whereas everyone is like, yeah, 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.000 but why doesn't it feel that way. That's a vibe 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:05.760 session instead of like a true recession. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.680 Yeah, and she was pointing out like that actually can 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.119 become self fulfilling. Yeah, sure, because if enough people start 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.960 feeling like, no, things aren't going so good, they start 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.200 not spending money, and that actually can trigger a recession 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.920 just from the fact that people feel that way, no 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.760 matter what the metrics say. So, yeah, we'll talk about 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.320 all that, but let's talk about the history of the 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.520 middle class because it hasn't always been around. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.400 Yeah, it's interesting if you look at, you know, the 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.720 history of the middle class in the West. It generally 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.480 you can point to late medieval Europe as you know, 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:41.720 when things started to get cooking a little bit as 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:43.640 far as the middle class goes, and you know, we'll 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.159 walk you all the way through you know, modern times. 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:50.880 But as cities became a thing, you know, all of 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.280 a sudden, you needed a middle class to sort of 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:59.640 administer what the aristocracy was asking for in a lot 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.880 of cases. Is so you know, there was this distinct 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.799 group kind of created that wasn't aristocracy, and it wasn't 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.520 the peasant class. And I think one word, and I 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.840 believe they've eve been done a short stuff on the bourgeois, Yeah, 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:14.400 didn't we? 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.039 Yeah, and what it means to be bourgeoisie. That's right, 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.080 there's another word for him burgers too, and apparently both words. 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:24.760 I don't I don't remember this, but I'm sure we 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.400 talked about it in the bourgeois short stuff. That that's 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:33.320 the name of the cities, the fortified cities where they worked, 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.560 right or where they emerged from. Yeah, and the burger 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:41.119 is that's why the burger Meister is called that in 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:47.880 either Rudolph or Frosty or some rankin bass something like 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.600 the scary BG exactly. Yeah, Burgermeister means mayor so he's 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.839 like the head of the city essentially. Anyway, those were 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:59.560 the merchants, the bankers, professionals that emerged to kind of 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:03.160 fill that space between the peasants and the aristocracy. And 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.320 you could call them the first middle. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.840 Class, yeah, sort of. But they grew in size and 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.720 wealth and power, so they were kind of like, Hey, 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.960 we tricked everybody. We're not really the middle class. We're 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.720 I mean maybe upper middle class. Certainly obviously not aristocracy 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.560 because they weren't born into that. But as people got wealthier, 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:25.600 there was kind of a true middle class that came 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.000 after that, where you needed people to do things like 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:34.080 bookkeeping and you know, kind of handled the business of 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.600 the people that previously had said that they were the 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:38.960 middle class, even though no one was using those terms, 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:39.920 you know, we should point. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.000 Out, right, no, nothing like that. There was also a 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.280 lot of changes where before it was wealth and power, 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.800 right because that's what nobility kind of based itself on. 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.240 So the earliest middle class kind of based itself on 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:57.640 those same markers. But thanks to the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.600 other markers kind of came along. The whole idea of thrift, 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:07.960 of saving your money, of not being just frivolous with 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.960 your money, that became a really big middle class social marker, 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:17.960 certain tastes, certain ways you would dress. And then of 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.680 course wealth, wealth has always been a marker for the 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.240 middle class, especially the upper middle class. But these were 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:30.200 all like, all these things seemed so normal to us 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.920 and so ingrained that it seems alien almost to kind 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.600 of tease this stuff out and identify it historically. 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.080 Yeah, for sure. And this was you know, in Europe 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.840 at the time when the United States was born. Olivia, 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.360 by the way, did a great job with this article. 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.640 I thought, uh, greed, she is a heck of a writer. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.319 So the United States was, you know, as she points out, 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:58.120 kind of a sort of a bourgeois not a I 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.400 wanted to say, project or a test an experiment, maybe 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.400 the American experiment. Yeah, because there were people like Thomas 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.720 Jefferson who were very much believed like, hey, we're going 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.200 to build this new country on and not on the 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:16.080 backs of but like the middle class, these people that 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.640 owned farms and could provide for their family and that 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:22.440 own some land, like this is the American experiment, that 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:24.959 like the goal that we're striving toward. 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:30.000 Yeah, and those yamen farmers were typically not slave holding. 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.760 So his idea was to basically become a nation of 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.800 self sufficient farmers growing food for their families and themselves 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.440 and then selling some in the market. And that just 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.000 is not how it went, because the wealthy landowners who 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:51.080 had actually had slaves became essentially the power, the elite, 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:56.319 the people actually pulling the levers, and eventually they except 0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:00.720 in the Antebellum South. They kind of replaced that wealthy 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:05.560 land owning and agriculture with industry as the Industrial Revolution 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.120 started in Europe and then spread to the US, and 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:14.040 then we had a real disparity in power and wealth growing. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.000 Yeah, for sure, because if you're owning a factory or 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.120 owning a railroad or a share of a railroad, that 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:25.360 is a very distinct upper class. It may not be aristocracy, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.520 but aristocracy became less and less important as time went on. 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.320 Flashed forward to like the middle of the nineteenth century, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.720 and you had people like Karl Marx, and we should 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.479 say Carl Marx was trying to sell something which was Marxism, 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:43.920 but he would come along and say like, hey, they're 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:50.880 really two classes. There's the working class and then everybody 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:52.959 else that's exploiting the working class. 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.240 Yeah, and the exploiters or the oppressors and the oppressed. 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.920 I think he also put it, they owned the capital. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.200 They were the capitalists. They were the ones who could 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.080 open a factory and employ you and you depended on 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:10.280 them for money, but they were exploiting your labor. Yes, 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:14.000 And in this sense where there's an owning class and 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:18.680 a working class, there's really no room for a middle class. Eventually, though, 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:22.720 a middle class still emerged because those capitalists aren't going to, 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:24.960 like you said, do their own books. They're not going 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.559 to go teach the next generation of workers to come 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.160 work in their factory. So like there was a need 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:34.800 for people to train the working classes to better serve 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:40.280 the capitalist elite. And that's where the middle class really 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.320 started to emerge in the United States in particular, but 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.840 also in the UK, Australia, some of the other places 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.480 in the West. That's where that the middle classes we 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.880 understand it now, really developed. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.400 Yeah, for sure, and it was there during the time 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.160 of Marx, but that wasn't good for Marxism to point 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:59.839 that out. So yeah, it was very much easier for 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.040 him to say, like you're being exploited or you're the exploiter. 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:05.880 It was a little black and white, yeah, for sure. 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:12.160 So in the nineteenth century, the middle class values system 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.320 started to kind of take shape, which is, you know, 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.520 sort of this the value system that ideally is still 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.160 around today, which is the idea that you know, if 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:25.000 you work hard, you save up, you can be a success. 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:29.360 In the United States, you know, they agreed that people 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.520 should vote more and more like have access to voting. 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.720 And of course that started with like, hey, maybe men 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.320 that aren't land owners should be able to vote, and 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.880 then that kind of spread throughout the years to you know, 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.280 people of different races, and then women finally. But the 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:51.440 idea that expanding voting rights and expanding education was always 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.480 sort of a middle class value, and then early on 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.360 it was you know, the role of women in society 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.760 has definitely changed as far as the middle class value goes, 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.280 but early on it was, hey, women are very important 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.280 to keep the home, but really be the moral center 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:10.640 of the world. Of the home, you. 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:14.319 Know, yeah, of the family, which was of utmost importance, 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.880 the nuclear family, which became really important in the Victorian 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.760 era and really informed the middle class values too, right, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.000 and all of those seem like so we take them 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.600 for granted so much as values typically aside from you know, 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:30.719 forcing women to work in the home whether they like 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.120 it or not, that just goes to show you how 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:37.800 effective the middle class was at spreading its basically imposing 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:39.800 its values on everybody else in the West. 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.400 Yeah, for sure. Should we take an early break here, Well, 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.280 it's not too early, actually, I think, so, Yeah, all right, 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.600 we'll take a break. I think that's a good setup. 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.600 Middle classes forming. Everyone's getting excited, and we'll fast forward 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:55.000 to the twentieth century right after. 0:13:54.840 --> 0:14:01.760 This definitely about our childhood et r. 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:20.400 Y Skur, all. 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.120 Right, I promised talk to the twentieth century in the 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:27.200 middle class, and that's where we are, uh specifically, you know, 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.680 this is when the middle class in the US really 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.640 really emerged as like a massive thing, like the largest 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.120 portion of a like set of people in the US 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.840 became middle class in the in the twentieth century, and 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.320 really after the war. It was powered by the New Deal. 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.280 Of course, after World War Two, the United States was 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.160 in a unique position as as victor, but also victor 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.640 who didn't have the war fought on their you know, 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.880 mainland soil, right, so we didn't have to do all 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.000 this rebuilding after the war. So we were in a 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:04.040 position to really he hit the throttle on economic stimulus, 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.120 which was brought about via the New Deal. 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.440 Yeah, and World War two. Just the sheer amount of 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.200 money thrown into the economy from the government for World 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.200 War two helped as well, right, And we had all 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.920 those technologies that we developed that gave us things like 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.400 pop tarts and stuff immediately after the war and completely 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.320 improved the quality of life for people in the United States, 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:29.479 especially the middle class. Right, so you have government policy 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.680 like the New Deal, like the National Labor Relations Act 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.360 that are favoring workers, this working class that is becoming 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.960 the middle class. And then one of the other, really 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:46.040 really really big aspects of what built the middle class 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:50.400 and the United States and elsewhere were unions. Union membership, 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:54.600 because if you can bargain collectively, you can't be exploited 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:58.000 nearly as easily, and that means that life is a 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.080 lot more fair for you, the worker, because you're allowed 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.160 to get together and say no, you can't do that 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:05.720 to any of us. If you do that to one 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:06.960 of us, you do it to all of us, and 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:07.600 we'll all leave. 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.880 Yes, I mean we did. We did a great episode 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.760 on unions years ago, So I advise you to go 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:15.360 listen to that now if you want to learn more 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.400 about those But no, no, no, everyone else. I mean 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.360 you can if you want. Okay, a little refresher, But 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.040 union membership really bloomed in the nineteen thirties and forties. 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.360 I think at the beginning of the twentieth century, it 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.360 was in the low teens union membership and then it 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.960 really really rose from there, and so did wages. Between 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:39.720 nineteen forty and nineteen sixty, if you were a non farmer, 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.920 your median weekly income rose. And these by the way, 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.200 everything we're doing is in twenty twenty five dollars, just 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:50.000 to make it easier to understand, but your median weekly 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.200 income for a non farmer went from five hundred and 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:57.000 fifty dollars to over one thousand dollars, almost eleven hundred bucks. 0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.720 And that was across all you know, a lot of 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.920 edgecation levels, you know, different racial groups, different industries. That 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.840 was sort of a broad change. So, you know, it 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:11.080 was an interesting time in that, you know, pay for 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.200 people and what is now like a solid middle class, 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.440 it was really rising. They were taxing the rich and 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:22.399 constraining corporate power such that some people called this this 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.480 time the Great Compression, where the wealth levels were sort 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:29.200 of smashed together on a graph instead of expanded vastly 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.240 like we are now. We're gonna have some shocking numbers 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:32.520 for you later in this episode. 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.080 Yeah, So that era between nineteen forty and I think 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.360 a lot of people essentially put it at the mid 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.200 seventies is when they say the party really started to end. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.840 Was just as economic boom golden age for the United 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:51.120 States and the middle class. And there was another big 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:56.040 factor too, which was home ownership. We did I remember 0:17:56.040 --> 0:18:00.680 in our racial discrimination or housing discrimination episode that we did, 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.120 we pointed out that owning a home has long been 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.439 really important, especially for the middle class, because that is 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.080 how you generate wealth. For most people, your home just 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.520 appreciates some value over the years, and then you can 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.119 also use that home to transfer that wealth to your kids. 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.119 So it's also a form of generational wealth transfer for 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.240 the middle class. So it's really big deal to own 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.760 your own home. And that was another big thing that 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.560 happened after World War Two. Home ownership went up quite 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:29.800 a bit. 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.040 Yeah previous and this is going way back, but between 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.520 eighteen ninety and nineteen thirty, home ownership was under fifty 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:40.040 percent of the United States. And eventually, you know, thanks 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:44.399 to the suspect mortgages that they were handing out like 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.920 candy in two thousand and four, that peaked at I 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.000 think it was close to seventy percent, like sixty nine 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:50.800 or something. 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.240 Yeah, for sure, and then I think it dropped down 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.439 to something like sixty five and is basically plateaued since there. 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:02.720 But this is the point that that you could own 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.720 a house, you could own a car. Yeah, you could 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.159 have a family of you know, a husband and wife 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:12.320 and two kids and live in the suburbs, and the 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.520 kids would go to a nice school. And this was obviously, 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.520 this is the most idealized version what we're talking about. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:20.960 There's a lot of disparity. There was a lot of 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.320 people who are still very poor in the United States too, 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.080 But overall, if we're just focusing on the middle class, 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.160 you could do all of these things and have a nice, 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:33.160 comfortable middle class life, a pension after you retired, on 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:37.640 one salary, one income, because again, one of the main 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.320 values of the middle class at this time was that 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.000 the mother stayed home, raised the kids, and made the 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:48.280 house the center of the nuclear family, respite from the 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:52.000 rest of the world. One salary could do all of that. 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.760 Yeah, and it was you know, people weren't as far 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:59.240 apart as they were financially speaking, like you may live 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:02.159 in the same neighborhood or maybe the neighborhood next to 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.280 your boss. You know, blue collar workers and white collar 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.040 workers were were way more you know, just kind of 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.800 squashed together, like your children probably went to school. If 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:14.879 you were like a line worker at an auto plant, 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.159 you know, you may not have as nice of a 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.200 car or as big of a house as your manager 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.439 or your boss, but you know, it was in the 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.320 It was in the same world. And you know, I 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.560 still remember that stuff growing up in the eighties, like 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.800 the watch any John Hughes movie, and like all the 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.879 kids at the same school. They were like, you know, 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.040 the rich kids and then the kids that lived in 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:41.560 that neighborhood, right, but it wasn't extreme wealth and poverty. 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.320 No. And the fact is they were all going to 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.680 the same school exactly. There was like a leveling from that. 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:50.520 So yeah, that was a really big deal. And this 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:54.000 is this is going on through about to the mid 0:20:54.160 --> 0:21:00.880 seventies when things started to decline for the middle class. Right. Yeah, 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.000 there's there was the end of the post war boom. 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.480 I mean, that's really tough to keep up in the 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:07.920 form that it was in for very long. Yeah, and 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.879 it's kind of astounding it stayed up that long. Part 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.119 of it was that the US was in that unique position, 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.760 like you said, it didn't have to rebuild after World 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.320 War Two like Europe and Japan did well. After a 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:23.240 few decades, Europe and Japan were able to rebuild and 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:25.600 they started to catch up to the United States, which 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:27.800 meant that they were taking more share of the United 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:31.000 States pie with say like exports and manufacturing and stuff. 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:35.879 That was one factor too. There was also the oil crisis. Yeah, 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.240 I think that that made a bigger dent than I 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:44.720 ever realized that that was like a history changing event, 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:50.000 the OPEC oil crisis, and then also political conflicts that 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:57.680 ultimately laid the bedwork for today's culture wars, civil rights movement, feminism, environmentalism, 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:03.520 LGBTQ plus US rights. All of these things were marginalized groups. 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:06.439 Previously marginalized groups came forward and said, no, there's no 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.520 reason we should be treated like second class citizens. That 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.679 created a tension in the United States. A lot of 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.040 corporations came in and figured out how to exploit this 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:20.240 for their own ends, and that eventually started to divide 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:25.399 people to where there was this sense of competition is 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:30.680 the bedrock of American capitalism, and American capitalism is the 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.040 bedrock of the middle class. It's part of the middle class. 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:36.560 It's a new middle class value. It's where we got 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:37.640 yuppies in the eighties. 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:42.679 Yeah, for sure. The industrialization also happened. In nineteen seventy 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:46.879 if one in out of every four non farming jobs 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:50.000 in the US was in manufacturing, and by twenty seventeen 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.840 it was one and eleven. So other countries, you know, 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:57.240 as globalization and trade increased, other countries started making stuff 0:22:57.280 --> 0:22:59.720 super cheap. Like this isn't a big surprise to anyone 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:04.400 to this. Imports from China started coming in, Imports from 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.359 other you know, Southeast Asian countries started coming in. Stuff 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:11.480 was a lot cheaper to buy, and you know, they 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:14.439 started automating a lot of stuff. It was, you know, 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:16.960 kind of the first automation boom was happening in the 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:20.480 nineteen seventies where factories didn't need as many people on 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.720 the line to do stuff that these new machines were doing. 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:29.280 So that coupled with deunionization, really, you know kind of 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:31.240 dropping off, was a huge factor. 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:36.080 Yeah, and it really definitely declined that it's below ten 0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:40.399 percent for the entire workforce in the United States. A 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:44.160 huge chunk of that is just from government jobs like teaching, 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:47.600 they tend to have a very strong union. But overall, 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:50.679 it went from like thirty five thirty six percent to 0:23:50.760 --> 0:23:53.600 ten percent. And one of the reasons that that happened 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.720 is because the government basically withdrew its support for unions. 0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:01.840 Not only did it stop passing legis enforcing legislation that 0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:06.040 supported unions, it actually started issuing legislation that harmed and 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:08.719 crippled unions and essentially removed their power. 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:12.320 Yeah, for sure. And then the last reason, you know, 0:24:12.359 --> 0:24:16.439 we can't talk about the middle class and wealth disparity 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:20.880 without talking about Ronald Reagan. You know, he's the one 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:24.399 that kicked it off. And subsequent administrations definitely didn't do 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:28.480 the middle class any favors. But those Reagan era policies 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:33.760 that trickle down economics, cutting taxes for corporations, undermining labor unions, 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:39.399 cutting taxes on the top earners individually really transformed the 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:43.240 look of our nation heavily, heavily in favor of the 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.159 rich and you know, the top ten percent, especially the 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:49.080 top one percent. And like I said, other you know, 0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:52.440 Democrats and Republicans since then have failed the United States 0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:57.520 and their policies. I know, after the economic crash and 0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:00.080 the real estate crash in two thousand and eight, there 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:02.399 were a lot of people, especially now in hindsight that 0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:04.960 look back and say, you know what, we really had 0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:08.080 an opportunity there, and the Obama administration failed us. When 0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:11.760 we bailed out those banks with not very many strings attached. 0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:14.399 We had some leverage there to sort of get some 0:25:14.520 --> 0:25:17.199 changes in place that could have helped, you know, shift 0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:19.359 the look of the financial outlook of our country, and 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:20.040 we didn't do it. 0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:24.320 No, And what they would have been doing is undoing 0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:27.600 damage that was done during the Clinton administration where they 0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:32.879 repealed the Glass Stegal Act that kept banks from dabbling investments. 0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:35.360 You were either a bank or an investment company, which 0:25:35.400 --> 0:25:38.800 one and after that you don't have to choose, And 0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:43.440 that's ultimately what helped lead us to that massive financial crisis, 0:25:43.520 --> 0:25:44.720 the Great Recession. 0:25:45.000 --> 0:25:45.200 Yeah. 0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:48.639 So yeah, it's really easy and fun to pick on 0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:51.600 Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher for kicking all this off, 0:25:51.640 --> 0:25:54.760 but they were not the only neoliberal presidents to come 0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:56.000 along after the eighties. 0:25:56.240 --> 0:25:59.600 No, for sure, if you're talking about the middle class today, 0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:02.560 you really have to start with like how do you 0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:04.920 define the middle class? And Libya did a really great 0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:07.040 job in this section. I think like there are a 0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:10.080 lot of different ways that people and pundits like to 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:14.240 talk about what the middle class even is. Some social 0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:19.760 scientists it's just a super straightforward income based definitions, which 0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:22.600 is good in one sense because you can adjust that 0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:26.879 depending on where you are in the world, Like a 0:26:26.920 --> 0:26:29.520 middle class income in New York City isn't going to 0:26:29.520 --> 0:26:32.360 be the same thing as in a rural area, so 0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:35.840 they can you can adjust things economically based on just 0:26:35.880 --> 0:26:39.080 a strict income based definition, which is kind of cool. 0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:43.040 Also, that means that the middle class doesn't move out 0:26:43.040 --> 0:26:45.399 of reach of certain people too. Like if you just 0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:47.919 have the median income and say that's the middle class, 0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:51.040 As the median income grows, the middle class goes up 0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:54.480 and some people stay behind. This is like here's the 0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:57.040 middle class section, and you can get into it and 0:26:57.119 --> 0:26:58.840 out of it, or drop out of it and go 0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:02.760 above it. But it's going to stay in the same place, 0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:05.480 and it's just going to it's going to change depending 0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:09.080 on how wages rise. Yeah, it seems like a pretty 0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:12.480 good it's a good idea to me. The most widely 0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:16.960 used one comes from the Pew Research Center, and they 0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:19.560 it's an income based approach that they use, but they 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:23.840 basically say that if your household income is two thirds 0:27:24.119 --> 0:27:27.960 of the median household income or up to double the 0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:32.480 median household income. You are middle class, right, and I 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:35.359 think in twenty twenty four that meant that your household 0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:39.320 is very important too. That your household made between fifty 0:27:39.359 --> 0:27:42.760 five thousand, eight hundred and twenty dollars to one hundred 0:27:42.800 --> 0:27:46.600 and sixty seven thousand, four hundred and sixty dollars any 0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:49.680 anywhere in there, you were middle class income wise. 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:53.680 Yeah, and this is all obviously like pretext money. 0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:59.040 Right, yeah, oh yeah, I would think so. Yeah. 0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:02.439 So under that definition, the middle class made up sixty 0:28:02.480 --> 0:28:05.199 one percent of households in nineteen seventy one, compared to 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:11.240 just fifty one percent in twenty twenty three. But at 0:28:11.240 --> 0:28:14.920 the same time, the upper income category went from eleven 0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:19.280 percent to nineteen percent and the lower percentage rose from 0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:22.639 twenty seven percent to thirty percent. So what you're seeing 0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:26.560 is like the wealth gap like happening in real time, basically. 0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:32.040 Yes, But that also suggests that eight percent of people 0:28:32.240 --> 0:28:35.040 in the middle class moved up from the core middle 0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:39.480 class to the upper income category. So that's what that's 0:28:39.520 --> 0:28:41.840 an interpretation that a lot of people who are like, no, 0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:44.360 the middle class is fine, suggest. 0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:46.000 Right, then three percent moved down. 0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:51.120 Right, Yeah, so that's yeah. Income is like, if you're 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:53.840 an economist, this is what you're looking at. If you're 0:28:54.040 --> 0:28:59.480 say anthropologists or sociologists, you might say, well, who considers 0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:02.360 themselves middle class? Maybe we should look at those people 0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:05.560 and then kind of study them like that, like ask 0:29:05.680 --> 0:29:08.360 people are you middle class or not? Are you working class? 0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:12.320 You consider yourself upper class? And they usually either divide 0:29:12.360 --> 0:29:15.440 it into those three lower class, middle class, upper class, 0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:20.200 or else they divide it into quintiles lower class, working class, 0:29:20.240 --> 0:29:23.800 which they would also call lower middle class, core, middle class, 0:29:24.160 --> 0:29:27.840 upper middle class, and then gob smackingly rich. 0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:31.760 And one percent saying buzz office, none of your business. 0:29:31.800 --> 0:29:32.760 Quit ask any questions. 0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:34.720 They have them arrested. 0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:37.720 So twenty twenty four was the last Gallop poll that 0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:40.400 we have where someone said, like, hey, what do you 0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:43.959 consider yourself? And in the United States, thirty nine percent 0:29:44.080 --> 0:29:48.680 of citizens considered themselves middle class. Another fifteen percent said 0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:52.040 there were upper middle class, which brings that grand total 0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:55.640 to fifty four. Thirty one percent identified as working class, 0:29:56.000 --> 0:29:59.440 twelve percent is lower class, just two percent of upper class, 0:30:00.560 --> 0:30:05.120 which means a lot of those upper middle class people 0:30:05.160 --> 0:30:08.000 were lying liars and that they're really part of the 0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:09.040 upper class. 0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:12.640 Yeah, for sure, But I think also it's not I'm 0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:15.240 sure some people were like I don't want to say, 0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:16.520 like I feel upper class. 0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:18.680 And self identification, so it makes sense. 0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:20.680 Sure, But at the same time, also I think that 0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:24.040 has to do with the idea that maybe based on income, 0:30:24.320 --> 0:30:26.920 it's almost like that vibe session thing like, yeah, your 0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:28.840 income would put you in the middle class, but you 0:30:29.240 --> 0:30:32.160 don't feel wealthy. You feel like you could be ruined 0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:35.640 by a healthcare crisis at any time. So I think, 0:30:36.160 --> 0:30:39.640 especially with self identification, that gives you a sense of 0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:43.360 the actual health of the economy as far as like 0:30:43.440 --> 0:30:45.240 consumer confidence is concerned. 0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:48.960 Yeah, and there's you know, laziness factors in. You could 0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:51.040 be in the upper middle class but also still have 0:30:51.160 --> 0:30:56.600 a car tire sitting in your sideyard for sure, with 0:30:57.200 --> 0:31:00.880 like typical markers of you know, different glasses. 0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:03.800 For sure, tires in your side Jock, I gotta get 0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:04.800 mine moved. 0:31:05.360 --> 0:31:09.000 Emily got onto me for years about the car battery 0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:12.440 that I had that I just it's like, got to 0:31:12.520 --> 0:31:14.880 get rid of a car battery. I know you can, Oh, 0:31:14.920 --> 0:31:17.560 you take it to like one of the auto stores, 0:31:17.600 --> 0:31:20.040 I know, but none of those feel right. 0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:24.560 They know they take the core out and yeah it's 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:25.760 they recycle them for real. 0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:28.400 Yeah, because you've watched them do all that right from 0:31:28.440 --> 0:31:29.360 beginning to help. 0:31:29.680 --> 0:31:32.720 I help on weekends as just as pro bono. 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:35.360 That's my point is, I don't I don't trust any 0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:36.480 of it. None of it feels right. 0:31:37.240 --> 0:31:38.920 All right, I'm with you. Well, you want to know 0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:41.720 something that really opened my eyes and changed my life, Chuck, 0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:47.400 I realized recently that that whole like grocery store recycle 0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:51.440 bag recycling thing is a total scam. Like publics and 0:31:51.480 --> 0:31:53.720 all them who have those those things out that said 0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:56.400 put your plastic bags in your we recycle them. They don't. 0:31:56.880 --> 0:31:59.640 They don't. They throw them away. And I can't tell 0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:02.920 you how how much time I've spent, like taking labels 0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:06.000 off of plastic wrap, shaking out plastic crap to make 0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:09.200 it clean, like taking it all bundled together, taking it 0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:11.000 to publics and putting it in the bend. And then 0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:13.000 the idea they just take it and throw it away 0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:16.080 and use this as just like a pr thing. Oh 0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:18.200 my god, I'm so sick of stuff like that. 0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:22.360 Man agreed two quick things on that. You can't count 0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:26.200 on your large grocery store chain to do that. You 0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:27.840 got to go to like the Charm. You got to 0:32:27.840 --> 0:32:30.000 go what we have here in Atlanta and Athens, the 0:32:30.800 --> 0:32:33.640 Center for Hard to recycle Materials, because they really do 0:32:33.720 --> 0:32:36.800 the work. It's just a big pain. And number two, 0:32:38.040 --> 0:32:40.320 just as a quick aside, I went to Belize on 0:32:40.760 --> 0:32:44.280 winter break recently, had a great time, but the grocery 0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:47.960 store in there was a grocery store in Placentia named Publics. 0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:55.600 Publics same exact font and coloring as Publics. 0:32:56.280 --> 0:32:58.840 It's like Ricky Rouse and moneld Muck thought it was very, 0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:02.640 very funny. It's funny. They're like, we spell it different. 0:33:02.680 --> 0:33:06.320 What all right? So we're getting off track. The one 0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:09.000 of the last ways, I guess, second to the last 0:33:09.000 --> 0:33:12.719 ways to look at it is through education levels, because 0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:15.120 a lot of times when you hear you know, pundits 0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:17.600 on the news talking about the middle class, they'll say 0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:19.920 things like, you know, people with a four year college degree, 0:33:20.360 --> 0:33:23.200 that's only about forty percent of the population in the US, 0:33:23.640 --> 0:33:25.800 and it's really misleading. So I wish they'd just kind 0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:29.720 of throw this one out with the Public's grocery bags 0:33:29.760 --> 0:33:34.000 because you know, you could have a four year degree 0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:38.200 and be a college professor that also has to have 0:33:38.240 --> 0:33:40.920 a second job to make ends meet. Or you could 0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:43.440 also not have a college degree and on a multimillion 0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:46.960 dollar you know, sort of blue collar business. So I say, 0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:47.920 just get rid of that one. 0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:51.280 A multimillion dollar battery recycling. 0:33:50.840 --> 0:33:53.120 Business, yeah, because that's where all the money is. 0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:58.680 So yeah. So values also, I agree education levels, just 0:33:58.720 --> 0:34:02.280 get rid of that, especially with college not really leading 0:34:02.320 --> 0:34:05.000 to many as many opportunities today as it used to 0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:07.520 and all of the incredible debt associated with it, that 0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:11.000 should not be a measurement for the middle class. Values 0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:13.319 is another one too, And this one I was kind 0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:15.719 of like, what why, Yeah, and I realized you can't 0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:20.879 measure social groups strictly on things like income. That self 0:34:20.960 --> 0:34:24.799 identification thing has a lot to do with values. One 0:34:24.880 --> 0:34:28.799 we talked about is a nuclear family, which has been 0:34:29.280 --> 0:34:33.080 altered dramatically since the middle of the last century. When 0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:35.319 I would say, I would argue in the United States 0:34:35.360 --> 0:34:38.320 at least the nuclear family was like at its peak 0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:42.080 of importance. It's definitely declined. People kind of make family 0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:47.560 wherever they can find it. And that doesn't mean that 0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:50.239 like all of the values are gone that there was 0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:56.120 a twenty ten Vice President Joe Biden middle Class task 0:34:56.160 --> 0:34:59.399 Force had no idea that existed, but it essentially went 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:01.759 through and said what are your values and they came 0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:05.279 up with pretty basic stuff that that I think most 0:35:05.320 --> 0:35:08.400 middle class people would agree with. Economic stability and security. 0:35:08.800 --> 0:35:11.080 You want a car for each of your kids as 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:13.880 they get to driving age. You want to take a 0:35:13.920 --> 0:35:16.239 family vacation once a year. You want to send those 0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:18.560 kids to college. You want to own your home, like 0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:22.520 really basic stuff. And the idea that all of that 0:35:22.680 --> 0:35:26.480 is up for grabs in this country right now is 0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:27.320 really alarming. 0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:33.360 Yeah, for sure. Should we take another break? Yes, all right, 0:35:33.400 --> 0:35:35.960 we're going to take a break and we'll talk about 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:38.279 what's gone wrong with the middle class and where we 0:35:38.360 --> 0:35:39.400 might be headed right after this. 0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:45.799 Definitely large holds of each o. 0:35:47.880 --> 0:35:48.400 Y s k. 0:35:54.320 --> 0:36:06.439 Is okay, Chuck. So, I think we've kind of said 0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:08.080 a couple of times that there's a lot of different 0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:10.520 ways you can look at things to say the middle 0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:12.640 class is doing great. I know the middle classes hauloed 0:36:12.640 --> 0:36:15.440 out in debt. One of the things that you can 0:36:15.480 --> 0:36:18.160 really kind of point to is like, how much are 0:36:18.200 --> 0:36:22.719 you getting paid. Right, that's a pretty easy one. So 0:36:22.800 --> 0:36:27.040 you can look at average hourly wages for non supervisory employees. 0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:30.319 So that's everybody who's not a manager or like a 0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:35.400 C suite executive, right, just the regular rank and file employees. 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:39.279 There was a peak of pay in nineteen seventy three 0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:42.440 of thirty dollars. This is twenty twenty five dollars, right. 0:36:42.880 --> 0:36:46.040 Yeah, always or always on this episode. 0:36:46.760 --> 0:36:51.040 Right in fall of twenty twenty five, we were at 0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:55.480 thirty one dollars and fifty cents. So we managed to 0:36:55.640 --> 0:37:02.080 gain an extra dollar fifty in average hourly wages in 0:37:02.560 --> 0:37:06.560 fifty years. Yeah, and you might think like, oh, okay, 0:37:06.640 --> 0:37:09.520 well really, let's think about inflation and everything. I did. 0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:13.560 Get this if you went back to nineteen seventy three, right, 0:37:15.440 --> 0:37:20.280 one dollar today buys fourteen percent of what it bought 0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:23.240 in nineteen seventy three. Yeah, so that means that today 0:37:24.800 --> 0:37:28.080 it does. So you can you could buy, using the 0:37:28.120 --> 0:37:33.680 same hourly wage today fourteen percent of your groceries if 0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:36.719 you went from nineteen seventy three to today. So we 0:37:36.800 --> 0:37:40.360 are definitely worse off because things have gotten more expensive, 0:37:40.600 --> 0:37:44.360 but wages have stagnated. If anyone ever tells you that 0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:48.640 wages have not stagnated, they are lying or they're dumb 0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:51.719 or both, and just tell them so. Yeah, I've been 0:37:51.719 --> 0:37:53.840 trying really hard not to get worked up, man, and 0:37:53.840 --> 0:37:56.160 I'm trying to keep it together. Rre we go, everybody, 0:37:56.239 --> 0:37:57.240 I'm keeping it together. 0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:02.120 The idea of the middle class, though, around the nineteen sixties, 0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:06.160 was about wasn't just about getting to a spot and 0:38:06.239 --> 0:38:09.319 hitting it. It was about everybody continuing to grow and the 0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:13.000 overall economy of the United States continuing to grow. And 0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:17.239 that has happened, but compensation hasn't happened along with it. 0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:21.200 From nineteen seventy nine to twenty twenty five, productivity in 0:38:21.200 --> 0:38:26.040 the United States rose eighty seven percent, but that hourly 0:38:26.080 --> 0:38:31.000 compensation rose by thirty three percent for non supervisory workers. 0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:33.600 Right. And there's two ways you can interpret that. If 0:38:33.640 --> 0:38:37.000 you're like, well, unions are gone, you could say if 0:38:37.040 --> 0:38:39.360 you're an owner, well you get rid of the union's 0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:43.120 productivity increases. Unions make lazy workers. Another way to put 0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:46.000 it is that without the unions, you can exploit workers 0:38:46.000 --> 0:38:48.040 more easily and get them to work harder because they're 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:52.480 afraid of losing their job. Right, Yeah, regardless of how 0:38:52.480 --> 0:38:56.480 you look at it, like, there's no way to interpret 0:38:56.480 --> 0:39:00.440 it differently. If your wages have increased thirty three but 0:39:00.520 --> 0:39:04.360 productivities increased eighty seven percent, that means that that extra 0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:07.360 wealth that was generated had to go somewhere, and it 0:39:07.440 --> 0:39:11.000 didn't go to the workers. It went to the wealthiest people. 0:39:11.640 --> 0:39:14.480 And there are just like, if you want to just 0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:18.800 look at eye popping numbers, just look up income inequality 0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:24.040 in the twenty first century, because it has gotten completely 0:39:24.120 --> 0:39:26.840 out of control compared to how it used to be. 0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:28.640 And I mean how it used to be. Like I'm 0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:29.560 talking the eighties. 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:32.880 As Sam Jackson would say, hang on your butts. What 0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:33.959 do you say, Jurassic Park? 0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:34.959 Hang on your butts? 0:39:35.040 --> 0:39:36.120 Yep, hang on your butt. 0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:38.200 You need a cigarette sticking out of your mouth? 0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:41.320 Oh, I've got it, pal, all right, So these numbers 0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:44.240 are going to be slightly depressing and slightly eye popping. 0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:49.640 Annual wages of the bottom ninety percent of Americans rose 0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:54.040 by twenty nine percent from seventy nine to twenty twenty one. 0:39:54.760 --> 0:39:57.400 For the top one percent during over that same time period, 0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:03.919 they rose two hundred and six and the Forbes four 0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:06.520 hundred lists it's a list that we put out in 0:40:06.640 --> 0:40:11.080 or Forbes magazine puts out about the four hundred wealthiest Americans. 0:40:11.600 --> 0:40:14.319 They should probably just stop doing this altogether. 0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:16.839 I know it ruins society. 0:40:17.239 --> 0:40:20.440 But you mentioned the nineteen eighties, nineteen eighty two that 0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:23.640 it was the initial Forbes four hundred. It had thirteen 0:40:23.719 --> 0:40:29.319 billionaires on it. Now everybody on the Forbes list is 0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:33.759 a billionaire, and there's another five hundred billionaires that don't 0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:34.560 get on the list. 0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:35.440 Wow. 0:40:35.520 --> 0:40:38.040 So in nineteen eighty two there were thirteen billionaires. There 0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:41.160 are more than nine hundred billionaires in the United States 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:43.920 right now who have a collective worth of six point 0:40:43.960 --> 0:40:46.920 six trillion dollars. I'm sorry, that's just the Forbes four 0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:49.839 hundred have six point six trillion. Forget the other five 0:40:49.920 --> 0:40:51.080 hundred billionaires. 0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:54.640 Okay. So another thing that that Forbes list pointed out 0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:57.400 is that the total wealth in all of the United 0:40:57.440 --> 0:41:01.640 States is one hundred and forty trillion dollars. The bottom 0:41:01.880 --> 0:41:05.319 fifty percent owns four trillion of that. That means the 0:41:05.360 --> 0:41:08.160 top fifty percent owns one hundred and thirty six trillion 0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:12.439 compared to four trillion. Ah Man, there was one other 0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:15.800 statistic I found too, between nineteen seventy five and twenty 0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:19.719 twenty four, there was a wealth transfer upward to the 0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:25.799 top percent that totaled fifty trillion dollars. So, however you 0:41:25.840 --> 0:41:27.799 want to put it, however you want to look at it, 0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:32.640 the middle class and the lower class have been held 0:41:32.680 --> 0:41:36.399 back while the wealth that they have been producing has 0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:40.279 moved upward. And a big problem with that is when 0:41:40.320 --> 0:41:42.920 you have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, 0:41:43.520 --> 0:41:46.320 they're making the decisions about what happens with that money, 0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:49.600 rather than hundreds of millions of people all making individual 0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:53.680 decisions and collectively making decisions that are like market signals 0:41:53.680 --> 0:41:55.600 that tell people, I'm going to go make this, I'm 0:41:55.600 --> 0:41:57.120 going to stop making this, I'm going to make this 0:41:57.160 --> 0:41:59.480 price that all these people are upset because they don't 0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:01.919 have good healthcare, we better do something about that. None 0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:05.040 of that matters because they don't have money, so they 0:42:05.080 --> 0:42:07.560 don't have power, and they're afraid of losing their jobs. 0:42:07.560 --> 0:42:09.760 So you can do basically whatever you want to them. 0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:10.720 That's what happened. 0:42:11.040 --> 0:42:14.239 Yeah, And you know, politically speaking, the wealth and the 0:42:14.280 --> 0:42:19.000 powers is who controls everything. They obviously via campaign donations 0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:21.880 is the most clear cut way, but all kinds of 0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:27.000 interventions to basically let the top one or two percent 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:30.560 make the decisions for the majority. There's a social scientist 0:42:30.640 --> 0:42:33.080 and this isn't us railing on stuff. This is just 0:42:33.200 --> 0:42:35.919 how it is. Like, if you're saying this isn't the case, 0:42:35.960 --> 0:42:39.720 then you're lying. Like you said, there's a social scientist 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:42.960 named Richard Reeves who said that the top twenty percent 0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:46.880 of earners are basically have been completely successful in pushing 0:42:47.800 --> 0:42:52.160 zoning regulations and tax policies that benefit them all at 0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:55.440 the expense of the middle class. They gain the systems 0:42:55.480 --> 0:42:57.840 to pass that you know, wealth down to their children 0:42:58.239 --> 0:43:01.120 or to get their kids into the better It's just 0:43:02.120 --> 0:43:04.280 the way things have gone in the United States. 0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:07.160 Yeah, and the problem, one of the big problems is 0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:09.480 people are going to be all over our iTunes reviews 0:43:09.520 --> 0:43:11.759 being like, these guys are liberal idiots. You don't know 0:43:11.760 --> 0:43:15.200 what they're talking about. It's not liberal and conservative, and 0:43:15.239 --> 0:43:19.520 it's not Republican and democrat. This is strictly a class issue, 0:43:20.120 --> 0:43:23.400 and the idea that you are defending a class beyond 0:43:23.480 --> 0:43:27.680 yours that is exploiting your own class, including you. That's 0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:31.440 a problem because it's presented as a political thing, and 0:43:31.480 --> 0:43:34.520 we're so tribal when it comes to political affiliations that 0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:38.760 you will defend against your own self interest. 0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:40.360 Yeah, because it's. 0:43:40.200 --> 0:43:42.720 Being presented to you as a political issue, and it's. 0:43:42.600 --> 0:43:46.320 Not happens every voting season. That happens. 0:43:46.400 --> 0:43:50.239 Yeah, And it's true. And I'm not picking just on 0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:54.279 conservatives or Republicans like Democrats do it too, like tr 0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:59.080 tribal and toxic and unhealthy. And if, oh man, if 0:43:59.080 --> 0:44:01.120 we could ever come to get there and break down 0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:04.319 those lines, oh my gosh, people are so ripped up 0:44:04.440 --> 0:44:08.000 right now that it would just be magnificent, the sweeping 0:44:08.080 --> 0:44:13.960 changes that would happen. A new renaissance, Yes, renaissance too, 0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:17.200 the sequel to h Yeah. 0:44:17.360 --> 0:44:19.960 Here's the thing. You know, Goods have gotten cheaper though, 0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:23.440 if you want to look at again, comparing in today's dollars, 0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:26.319 groceries are generally cheaper than they were in the mid 0:44:26.320 --> 0:44:28.600 seventies because the mid seventies, as we said, was pretty bad. 0:44:29.600 --> 0:44:33.480 Things like you know, clothing and furniture, electronics, all that 0:44:33.520 --> 0:44:36.399 stuff is way cheaper than it used to be. If 0:44:36.400 --> 0:44:38.760 you look at you know, back when you bought a VCR, 0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:40.040 when those first came out, and they were like a 0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:43.279 thousand dollars, you know, stuff like that is all like 0:44:43.320 --> 0:44:45.880 the bottom has fallen out on those kind of prices. 0:44:45.920 --> 0:44:49.040 But that hasn't happened in the housing market, which is 0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:50.839 a big deal for the middle class. Like you said 0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:54.040 in Act one, that median sales price of a house 0:44:55.040 --> 0:44:57.560 and again in today's dollars, it was three hundred thousand 0:44:57.560 --> 0:45:00.120 dollars in nineteen seventy nine. It's more than four four 0:45:00.200 --> 0:45:03.680 hundred thousand dollars today. And I think we said it 0:45:03.719 --> 0:45:05.880 was sixty nine point two percent at its peak of 0:45:05.880 --> 0:45:10.200 home ownership in two thousand and four. As of I 0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:15.080 think twenty twenty two. You know, what's happened is that 0:45:15.360 --> 0:45:18.399 you know, I think you said if it was about 0:45:18.440 --> 0:45:20.800 sixty five percent, so it's not that big of a difference, 0:45:20.840 --> 0:45:23.960 but it's that age of buying your first house has 0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:28.399 just gotten older and older and older. In twenty twenty two, 0:45:28.440 --> 0:45:31.160 only sixty two percent of forty year olds own their home, 0:45:31.600 --> 0:45:35.960 whereas the Boomer generation sixty nine percent of forty year 0:45:35.960 --> 0:45:40.680 olds owned. And the same can be said for rent 0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:44.080 and childcare, in college and healthcare. It's just all these 0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:47.319 things are outpacing earnings. 0:45:47.040 --> 0:45:49.680 Plus also that sixty two and sixty nine percent is 0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:53.160 a little misleading because there are way more boomers than 0:45:53.200 --> 0:45:57.680 there are Gen x who are forty now, So that 0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:00.400 so sixty nine percent of boomers is a new manically 0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:04.560 a much bigger group than sixty two percent of gen. 0:46:04.560 --> 0:46:09.040 Xers, right, which also means that that's a greater number 0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:12.240 of houses that are now locked up right being passed 0:46:12.280 --> 0:46:14.480 on to their kids. And you know, not saying that 0:46:14.560 --> 0:46:16.760 you shouldn't own a house and pass along your kids, 0:46:17.320 --> 0:46:19.399 but that as far as the housing market goes, that's 0:46:19.440 --> 0:46:20.959 just a lot, right. 0:46:21.960 --> 0:46:24.360 So Chuck, what do you what are we going to 0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:26.920 do about this? What are some things we can do? 0:46:28.200 --> 0:46:33.080 Oh? Man, let's solve it right now on the spot. Well, 0:46:33.160 --> 0:46:36.040 I mean, I don't know, man, It's not like this 0:46:36.120 --> 0:46:38.000 all over the world. If you look in Europe that 0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:41.400 there is a middle class there, but it's not quite 0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:43.279 the same. They aren't maybe don't have the kind of 0:46:43.320 --> 0:46:46.319 wealth that upper middle class does here, but they have 0:46:46.880 --> 0:46:49.680 the income and quality isn't as great generally, they have 0:46:49.760 --> 0:46:55.640 stronger social welfare programs, like the danger of falling into 0:46:56.160 --> 0:47:00.080 a desperate life straits isn't as great over there. I 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:02.360 saw I think on Instagram recently. It was an interview 0:47:02.400 --> 0:47:05.359 with a guy that was a had a good job. 0:47:05.560 --> 0:47:05.640 You know. 0:47:05.719 --> 0:47:07.319 It was one of those stories where the guy was 0:47:07.360 --> 0:47:10.880 on the streets and he had a degree in chemistry 0:47:10.880 --> 0:47:13.120 and he had a good job, and you know, I 0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:15.120 read the comments because I was curious if people were 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:19.320 going to be like bashing this dude or what. And hearteningly, 0:47:19.360 --> 0:47:21.520 a lot of the people were like, Hey, I worked 0:47:21.560 --> 0:47:25.239 in shelters for the un House for years and we 0:47:25.280 --> 0:47:28.319 saw all kinds of people come through here. We saw 0:47:28.400 --> 0:47:32.799 doctors and attorneys and people you know that just you know, 0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:38.279 sometimes you're a bad circumstance or two away from that 0:47:38.360 --> 0:47:41.080 kind of situation, and it's just not like that in 0:47:41.120 --> 0:47:42.560 Europe generally speaking. 0:47:43.080 --> 0:47:45.560 I remember during the two thousand and eight recession of 0:47:45.600 --> 0:47:48.920 reading some statistic that something like at the time like 0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:52.799 forty percent or something like that of Americans were one 0:47:52.840 --> 0:47:56.880 paycheck away from being homeless. Like that's how little savings 0:47:56.880 --> 0:47:59.680 and cushion that most Americans had. 0:47:59.800 --> 0:48:05.799 Yeah, or having to make you know, healthcare decisions like 0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:09.399 that aren't good for your life because you can't afford it, 0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:13.080 because it will bankrupt your family. You're having to put 0:48:13.080 --> 0:48:15.240 yourself and your family in peril physically. 0:48:15.680 --> 0:48:18.920 Right, That's part of that why the European middle class 0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:23.120 is much more secure because most of them have universal 0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:23.560 health care. 0:48:23.600 --> 0:48:27.200 Yeah, they're not bankrupted by a diagnosis. 0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:30.800 Right, But even on more day to day pedestrian stuff. 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:34.520 So the lower income you are, the more inflation affects you. 0:48:35.200 --> 0:48:37.919 Where Like if your higher income and you go gas 0:48:38.000 --> 0:48:41.040 up your car and you're like, wow, gas went up 0:48:41.080 --> 0:48:43.759 twenty cents today, that sucks, and you just don't think 0:48:43.800 --> 0:48:47.160 about it from that point on. If your lower income, 0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:49.920 you might roll up to the gas station and be like, oh, 0:48:50.280 --> 0:48:52.600 I can't afford to drive my car to work today 0:48:52.600 --> 0:48:55.680 because gas went up twenty cents a gallon. So that's 0:48:55.680 --> 0:48:57.799 another issue with the whole thing too. It makes it 0:48:57.880 --> 0:49:03.880 tougher to get a head when you can't afford the 0:49:04.000 --> 0:49:07.879 basic necessities because they're growing out of your reach day 0:49:07.880 --> 0:49:08.399 by day. 0:49:09.080 --> 0:49:11.440 Yeah. I mean when I was a snot nosed, no 0:49:11.560 --> 0:49:15.640 at all college kid working at Golden Pantry in Athens, Georgia, 0:49:16.400 --> 0:49:19.040 I used to and you know, I was working at 0:49:19.040 --> 0:49:20.879 Golden Pantry, so it's not like I was making any 0:49:20.960 --> 0:49:23.160 kind of money, but for a college kid, it was like, hey, 0:49:23.200 --> 0:49:26.000 that's great. I had everything I needed making that seven 0:49:26.040 --> 0:49:29.880 dollars an hour or whatever, because my parents were generally 0:49:29.880 --> 0:49:32.960 paying for my education and it's like easy street. I 0:49:32.960 --> 0:49:36.799 would I would wonder why someone would come in and 0:49:36.840 --> 0:49:41.120 buy like seven dollars worth of gas. I aloud be like, 0:49:41.160 --> 0:49:43.280 what a weird number? Why are you putting seven dollars 0:49:43.320 --> 0:49:46.080 worth of gas? Because it didn't occur to me that's 0:49:46.120 --> 0:49:48.480 all that they could afford. It's like, why don't you 0:49:48.480 --> 0:49:50.320 just fill your car up? And it's like because it 0:49:50.320 --> 0:49:53.919 couldn't afford to dummy? Right, I was a dummy, that's right. 0:49:54.800 --> 0:49:56.799 Yeah, No, I know exactly what to mean. I've been 0:49:56.840 --> 0:49:57.680 on both sides of that. 0:49:58.440 --> 0:50:01.120 Yeah, I mean, you know the night abitab a college kid, 0:50:01.200 --> 0:50:02.160 So in a way. 0:50:03.080 --> 0:50:05.560 Was that the golden pantry at Alps? 0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:09.800 Uh No, I worked on the college station road. 0:50:09.920 --> 0:50:15.400 Okay side, gotcha. So we didn't figure out how to Yeah, 0:50:15.480 --> 0:50:17.080 I had the same kind of job, and it is 0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:20.799 a very weird job. So we didn't figure out how 0:50:20.840 --> 0:50:26.120 to fix anything. Chuck, you got any ideas, I think 0:50:26.160 --> 0:50:29.120 that you could learn a lot from Europe expanding social 0:50:29.200 --> 0:50:32.080 safety nets. We could stop making that a political thing 0:50:32.120 --> 0:50:34.480 and be like, no, actually, this can help everybody. I 0:50:34.560 --> 0:50:38.200 saw that in New Mexico has started free childcare for all, 0:50:38.719 --> 0:50:41.120 doesn't matter what your income level is, doesn't matter, Like 0:50:41.160 --> 0:50:44.560 you can put your kid into childcare for free, and 0:50:44.600 --> 0:50:47.640 that's a huge expense that save for the average person. 0:50:48.200 --> 0:50:48.439 Yeah. 0:50:48.680 --> 0:50:50.520 I think New York is trying to do that, like 0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:54.560 Mom Donnie is trying to to institute that in New 0:50:54.640 --> 0:50:57.880 York City too, So that could be a huge trend. 0:50:58.400 --> 0:51:02.640 Just free childcare, Universe childcare could make a huge difference 0:51:02.640 --> 0:51:03.640 in people's income. 0:51:04.440 --> 0:51:07.040 Yeah, and all of that is because people want to 0:51:07.040 --> 0:51:10.400 go out and work their job to make money for 0:51:10.520 --> 0:51:10.839 the man. 0:51:11.560 --> 0:51:15.040 Yep, yeah, well put man, you got anything else? 0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:16.279 Got nothing else? 0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:20.319 Okay, I don't either, which means it's time for listener man. 0:51:23.040 --> 0:51:25.319 It is a quick correction. We heard from people from 0:51:25.360 --> 0:51:30.279 Tennessee because we stole their college. Hey guys, longtime listener here. 0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:33.640 Your show has fueled many runs and chores over the years. 0:51:33.840 --> 0:51:37.440 Quick Nashville nitpick from a proud local. In the Flexner 0:51:37.480 --> 0:51:41.200 Report episode, you mentioned Maharry being right here in Georgia. 0:51:41.800 --> 0:51:45.560 Nashville would like to gently reclaim that, guys, Mahary medical 0:51:45.560 --> 0:51:47.960 College has been proudly in Nashville since eighteen seventy six, 0:51:48.000 --> 0:51:50.960 and we're pretty attached to it. Totally understand how geography 0:51:50.960 --> 0:51:54.440 gets slippery mid podcasts, but just wanted to defend a 0:51:54.480 --> 0:51:59.640 hometown institution and that is from Bridget Chevron or Shavaine. 0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:01.520 And we heard from a lot of people, Bridget, So 0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:03.399 I don't know how we screwed that up, but we did. 0:52:04.040 --> 0:52:06.239 Yeah, we got it screwed up royally. I even went 0:52:06.280 --> 0:52:09.040 back and was like, surely there's a Mahary College in 0:52:09.080 --> 0:52:12.400 Georgia too. Nope, Nope, it's just the one in Tennessee. 0:52:12.920 --> 0:52:15.160 So sorry everyone in Tennessee who took offense to that, 0:52:15.200 --> 0:52:16.600 because we did hear from a lot of you. 0:52:16.719 --> 0:52:18.640 For sure, that's right, But we're neighbors and we like 0:52:18.680 --> 0:52:19.719 to think that we're all the same. 0:52:20.160 --> 0:52:24.400 Yeah, for sure, we all shared your medical college. Yeah, 0:52:24.400 --> 0:52:27.600 in the Tri state area. If you want to be 0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:30.680 like Bridget and send us a really nice email correcting us, 0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:33.120 we love that kind of thing. You can send it 0:52:33.160 --> 0:52:38.160 off to Stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 0:52:38.320 --> 0:52:41.200 Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 0:52:41.280 --> 0:52:45.480 more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:47.400 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.