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Speaker 1: You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with

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Speaker 1: Montclair in.

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Speaker 2: The last few days, telling friends my next podcast guest

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Speaker 2: was going to be Anthony Scaramucci. Everybody had a reaction,

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Speaker 2: a big one. How amazing, Ruthie, How did that happen? Ruthie?

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Speaker 2: Lucky you, lucky us to listen to the two of you.

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Speaker 2: When will it come out? In my career, I've been

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Speaker 2: a chef and an author and now a podcaster. In

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Speaker 2: his career, Antony has been a President's communication director in

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Speaker 2: the White House, a financial genius founding Sky Capital, and

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Speaker 2: the host of the Rest Is Politics US podcast. We

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Speaker 2: both had our ups and downs. His may have been

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Speaker 2: higher ups and maybe downer downs. But we're not here

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Speaker 2: to compete. We're here to talk about food, party politics,

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Speaker 2: food and party parties, food and family, food and memories.

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Speaker 2: Up to date, spent about ten minutes with Antony, but

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Speaker 2: it doesn't feel that way for me. The night we

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Speaker 2: met in the River Cafe was an immediate connection. I

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Speaker 2: agree with my friends. How lucky am I to have

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Speaker 2: him here today? How lucky am I to share stories?

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Speaker 2: How lucky am I to kind of feel he's my friend?

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Speaker 3: Well? I mean, the feeling is it's very very sweet introduction.

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Speaker 3: I didn't prepare an introduction, but I just want you

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Speaker 3: to know that I'm a super fan of yours. And

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Speaker 3: the night that I had here was very memorable one

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Speaker 3: for me because I came with Jason Fox, who's a

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Speaker 3: legend here for the SAS show. I did the American

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Speaker 3: version called Special Forces, and so he dunked me in

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Speaker 3: a car and he trapped me in the car and

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Speaker 3: pushed me out of a helicopter, set me on fire.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know what the hell I was

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Speaker 3: doing in that show.

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Speaker 2: But he took you to the River caf That part

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Speaker 2: of the risk.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, no, The River Cave was the dessert after

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Speaker 3: brutalizing me in the desert. We were out on the

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Speaker 3: Wadi Rum desert. The show's ten days at age fifty eight,

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Speaker 3: I made it through six of them, so I was

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Speaker 3: proud of myself. But it was hard.

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Speaker 2: What did you eat? Do you remember?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Terribly terribly.

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Speaker 2: I lost.

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Speaker 3: I lost probably we'll go by killer. I lost ten pounds.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, ye, yeah, I bought probably six kilos.

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Speaker 3: I mean it was a shit on a shingle corned

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Speaker 3: beef and on toast boiled eggs. It was terrible of

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Speaker 3: franks and beans. They were giving you sort of sas

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Speaker 3: food rations for the day, unlimited amount of water, but

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Speaker 3: the food was terrible.

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Speaker 2: What do you think you took away with you?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's a great question. I think when you

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Speaker 3: go through something like that and it's a minor thing,

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Speaker 3: you get a lot more empathy for people that are

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Speaker 3: actually out in that desert for eighteen months, or they're

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Speaker 3: out there serving the country, whether it's the UK or

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Speaker 3: the US, and they're making a sacrifice to keep people safe.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you get a lot more empathy. The other

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Speaker 3: thing is, I think your life's happiness comes from your

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Speaker 3: expectation management.

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Speaker 2: And tell me about expectation managed.

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Speaker 3: Well, if you're sleeping on a cot in one hundred

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Speaker 3: and five degree weather in a canvas tent, and you've

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Speaker 3: got a little pillow this big and a little tiny uh,

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Speaker 3: and you're freezing at night because the temperature goes to

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Speaker 3: one oh five to forty eight. These are Fahrenheys, of course,

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Speaker 3: and you start freezing. You're like, you know, you learn

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Speaker 3: to appreciate what you have. You learn to appreciate the

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Speaker 3: comforts that you have. I do you know, I'm a

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Speaker 3: big believer that life is about expectations. Lower expectations, higher positivity,

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Speaker 3: higher outcomes.

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Speaker 2: I think it's also interesting me, but you brought up

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Speaker 2: was about empathy, because there's all thinking about empathy so

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Speaker 2: much right now, especially since someone whose name I don't

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Speaker 2: actually like to mention on the podcast, which is Elon Musk,

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Speaker 2: said that liberals had too much empathy. I saw someone

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Speaker 2: wrote something in response to that and said, you know,

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Speaker 2: empathy is he said, he wrote, I used to try

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Speaker 2: and think what was evil? How do you define evil?

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Speaker 2: And then he said, thinking about it, I think evil

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Speaker 2: is when you have no empathy. And it turned out

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Speaker 2: that it was signed by someone who was it Nuremberg,

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Speaker 2: you know, judge at Neuremberg. And it made me think

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Speaker 2: about how empathy. If we don't have empathy, what do

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Speaker 2: we have. I think it's so well, crucially.

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Speaker 3: I think that's it, you know, I mean, ultimately the again,

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Speaker 3: I guess I'm sharing a lot of my personal follows.

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Speaker 3: I'll share it with you. I get the most joy

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Speaker 3: out of helping other people. I think that's an axiom

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Speaker 3: for most people. I tell people, you know, I have

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Speaker 3: an older brother that has an experienced drug addiction in

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Speaker 3: his life. He's going in and out of rehab. He

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Speaker 3: is figured out a way to stay sober by helping

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Speaker 3: other people. He's a sponsor. He's a phone call away

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Speaker 3: from someone that's depressed or in need of something, or

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Speaker 3: trying to help somebody stay off of whatever the drug

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Speaker 3: is that they're addicted to. And I think when you're

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Speaker 3: helping people, you're at your best. And if you're helping people,

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Speaker 3: your empathetic tours whatever their struggle is, you know. And

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Speaker 3: so to me, I think empathy is the whole thing

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Speaker 3: empathy is. But a lot of these norses is frankly,

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Speaker 3: they don't have a lot of empathy. There are people

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Speaker 3: political leaders and whatnot that they objectify people and they're

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Speaker 3: just in their field of vision. Do either do a

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Speaker 3: transaction that's favorable or unfavorable, and then they're immediately discarded

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Speaker 3: like it's it's almost like a video game for a

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Speaker 3: lot of these people, unfortunately.

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Speaker 2: And the other one that you talk about is resilience.

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Speaker 2: So we have empathy, but we also have resilience. And

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Speaker 2: I've been through quite a lot in the last ten

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Speaker 2: years as all as of Heath, and I thought, actually,

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Speaker 2: if you can teach your children resilience, I think that's

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Speaker 2: a great gift to have in life. That you you

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Speaker 2: have to be able to cave in as well, you have.

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Speaker 3: To be able to Is it teachable?

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Speaker 2: That's a good question.

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Speaker 3: With my children. My observation, I guess, is that they're

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Speaker 3: observing you. I can say things to them, but it's

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Speaker 3: not going to really matter. It's your actions that are

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Speaker 3: going to be things that happened. So when I got

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Speaker 3: fired from the White House, which was a brutal time

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Speaker 3: for me, Ruthie, if you're ever having a bad day

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Speaker 3: and you're listening to this podcast, I want you to

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Speaker 3: imagine my day on the thirty first of July twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: I got I asked fire from the White House, blown

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Speaker 3: into Pennsylvania Avenue, skinned alive by the media, rolled in margarite, assault,

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Speaker 3: and I was on the Santa Monica promenade. Don't know

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Speaker 3: if you've ever been out there at that open door

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Speaker 3: promenade on third and fourth Street. And my son at

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Speaker 3: that time, he's thirty three now, but he was twenty five.

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Speaker 3: Then he put his arm around me and he said, Dad,

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Speaker 3: are you going to be okay. It was the first

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Speaker 3: time in my life where my son was parenting me

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Speaker 3: as opposed to be parenting him, and I didn't really

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Speaker 3: remember the feeling if I was going to be okay

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Speaker 3: or not, but I remember what I said to him.

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Speaker 3: I said, yeah, going to be okay. Watch what I

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Speaker 3: do with this. And I think it's very important for

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Speaker 3: kids to see their parents get through things, whatever they

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Speaker 3: may be, because then in their mind they have space

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Speaker 3: for their own failures. They have space for whatever they

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Speaker 3: come up short on in their lives where they can say, Okay,

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Speaker 3: well that's happened to my mom or happen to my dad,

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Speaker 3: and they were able to get through it. I can do.

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Speaker 3: I find a lot of my very wealthy friends. They

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Speaker 3: sanitize their life, Ruthie. They have a life that goes

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Speaker 3: up into the right. It's a perfect story. They made

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Speaker 3: no bad decisions. I can't tell you the number of

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Speaker 3: billionaire memoirs that I've read where I'm a gas that

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Speaker 3: the perfection of all their choices, and then you look

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Speaker 3: at their kids, and their kids are always eclipsed by

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Speaker 3: all that, and it creates great insecurity. I just think

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Speaker 3: it's super important for your children to see your fallibility,

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Speaker 3: your mistakes, but also your grind, your ability to get

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Speaker 3: up and get going after your.

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Speaker 2: Mistakes, the resilience that you have now. I bet your

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Speaker 2: son said to you, how are you going to cope

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Speaker 2: what you described as one of the worst imaginable situations

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Speaker 2: of being fired? What was that? Tell me what that

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Speaker 2: was like?

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Speaker 3: First of all. First of all, I deserve to be fired.

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Speaker 3: We can talk about that too. Is you have to

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Speaker 3: be accountable. I should have never taken that job. I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is a joke inside the family. I mean, my

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Speaker 3: wife hates trust.

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Speaker 2: That's what the job was.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So I was the White House communications director for

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Speaker 3: eleven days. My I mean, my wife hates Donald Trump,

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Speaker 3: like almost as much as Milania hates him. So I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's like way up here. And so I mean, and

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Speaker 3: she told me not to do it. And this is

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Speaker 3: a real cautionary tale. I did it for ego related reasons.

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Speaker 3: I had grown up in a blue collar family. I

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Speaker 3: went to Tufton Harvard Law School. I had started to

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Speaker 3: successful businesses, sold one in my late thirties, and so

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Speaker 3: I had some financial independence. And now I had a

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Speaker 3: chance to work for the American President. And the funny

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Speaker 3: thing about this is just a side of my bad

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Speaker 3: judgment or my immaturity. My mentor, who I totally respect,

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Speaker 3: was about ten years older than me, was given a

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Speaker 3: big job in the administration, and in December he called

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Speaker 3: me to say he wasn't taking it, and I said what,

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Speaker 3: And he said, no, I'm not going to take it.

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Speaker 3: I spent enough time with Trump to know that we're

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Speaker 3: like oil and water and it's going to end badly

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Speaker 3: for me if I take the job. And my ego's

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Speaker 3: in the right place and I'm not going to take

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Speaker 3: the job. But that wasn't me, Ruthie. I took the

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Speaker 3: job because my ego and my pride were driving me

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Speaker 3: to the notion that I was going to work in

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Speaker 3: the White House and help solve some problems and work

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Speaker 3: on policy and help people. I mean, it was a

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Speaker 3: little bit of idealism in there, but what there really

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Speaker 3: was was a lot of ego centers. It was filling

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Speaker 3: the self narrative of me, and it was quite detrimental.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Deirdre and I almost got divorced. I missed

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Speaker 3: the birth of my fifth child I was in It

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Speaker 3: still pains me to talk about it, but I'll share

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Speaker 3: it here. James was born on July twenty fourth, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: It was a Monday. I was with President Trump at

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Speaker 3: the Boy Scouts event in West Virginia. Deersa and I

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Speaker 3: were fighting. She was due on August eighth or ninth,

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Speaker 3: and she was delivering prematurely, a couple of weeks early.

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Speaker 3: And there's a sixty mile no fly zone around Air

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Speaker 3: Force One. So an Air Force One comes into an area,

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Speaker 3: they have fighter planes, but they also have you know,

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Speaker 3: you can't go over Air Force One. You can't fly

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Speaker 3: over that airspace. And so it was an impossibility to

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Speaker 3: get back to New York. So I missed the birth

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Speaker 3: of my son. So you have to imagine this week.

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Speaker 3: I'm working for President Trump. It is not going well

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Speaker 3: because there's a lot of internescent fighting in the White House.

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Speaker 3: Trump is doing things that a lot of us are

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Speaker 3: looking at same ways. I don't want to be involved

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Speaker 3: with that. Fighting with him, and I get fired, almost divorced.

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Speaker 3: Missed the birth of my son. So again, if you're

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Speaker 3: having a bad weekend, he was having a bad week,

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Speaker 3: give me a call. I can tell you about a

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Speaker 3: really bad week. But we should take it back to food.

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Speaker 3: But I'm just saying, do.

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Speaker 2: You know I agree? I know? Okay, tell me who

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Speaker 2: eats better the Democrats for the Republicans.

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Speaker 3: I had one meal with Trump in the White House,

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Speaker 3: in the Blue Room. It was on a Wednesday. And

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Speaker 3: you know how I know it was a Wednesday. Was

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Speaker 3: only there for one Wednesday, we kid, so I know

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Speaker 3: it was a Wednesday. So I had beef Wellington. The

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Speaker 3: son of a bitch is going to lift the five

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Speaker 3: hundred years old He eats well done meat with ketchup. Okay,

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Speaker 3: but the chef in the White House was making a

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Speaker 3: beef Wellington and he loved it. I think he had it.

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Speaker 3: You know, I had like two out of five weekday nights,

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Speaker 3: and so I had beef Wellington with him in a salad.

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Speaker 2: What else did you mean with him?

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Speaker 3: You know he likes hav Me had Hamburger's on the campaign.

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Speaker 3: Remember I did nine months of campaigning with Trump, so

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Speaker 3: it was a tremendous amount of fast food. Did you

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Speaker 3: ever hear Jimmy Johns the fast food place? So Jimmy

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Speaker 3: Johns is like a Midwestern sandwich shop. It's like all

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Speaker 3: cold cuts. I mean, it's unbelievable that his orderies are

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Speaker 3: still flowing. I mean, this guy eats McDonald's french fries,

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Speaker 3: quarter pounders with cheese, Jimmy John's cold cuts.

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Speaker 2: Do they seem to enjoy it? Does he say they're

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Speaker 2: savoring it? Or is it just getting the food down?

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Speaker 3: No? No, no, he is a fast food maniac. By the way,

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Speaker 3: I mean, he'll come off. He would come off the

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Speaker 3: plane where a campaign, he'd be like asking the cops

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Speaker 3: where the burger king was and he'd like, what do

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Speaker 3: you want from burgering? I'm like, I don't want anything.

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Speaker 2: Was campaigning with the Democrats.

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Speaker 3: Like, well, here's the problem with the Democrats.

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Speaker 2: He's a good cook.

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Speaker 3: By the way, she's she's she's a great cook. She's

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Speaker 3: an incredibly nice person. She's a very smart person. But

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Speaker 3: they did her a disservice because you can't you have

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Speaker 3: whatever you think of Trump. At the time that she

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Speaker 3: was running against him, he was arguably the most famous

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Speaker 3: person in the world, or one of the most famous

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Speaker 3: people in the world, and she had one hundred and

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Speaker 3: seven days to get to know the Americans and the

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Speaker 3: Americans to get to know her. But also she was

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Speaker 3: working with Joe Biden's team. She's not her own team.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't like her office is based in Delaware, it

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Speaker 3: wasn't based in northern California. So this was a tremendous disadvantage.

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Speaker 2: Did you travel with her?

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Speaker 3: So I went to I went to Philadelphia with her

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Speaker 3: for the debate. The first of all, let me let

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Speaker 3: everybody on at Thirty of Them series, I'm a lifelong Republican.

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Speaker 3: The Republicans have so much envy for the Democrats. Gonna

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Speaker 3: tell you why. Okay, people are gonna hate me for this,

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Speaker 3: but they that Democrats have the celebrities that Democrats have,

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Speaker 3: the artists, the Democrats have the cool people in the culture. Okay,

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Speaker 3: the Democrats have more fun. Their parties are better, the

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Speaker 3: entertainment is better, the food is better. The Democrats have

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Speaker 3: the culture, which is why Trump is pissed off of

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Speaker 3: them all to which is why he you know, decapitated

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Speaker 3: the Kennedy Center, right because you know, the Democrats look

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Speaker 3: at him, or the artists look at him like a

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Speaker 3: knuckle dragging ogre, and so you know he's gonna, I guess,

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Speaker 3: bruise them by taking over the Kennedy Center. And like

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Speaker 3: you know, he knocked out board members of the Kennedy

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Speaker 3: Center were giving tens of millions of dollars of donations

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Speaker 3: to the arts and to the performing arts in the country.

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Speaker 3: And so he's not going to replace that money. He's

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Speaker 3: not going to give anybody his money. That's not how

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Speaker 3: he operates. So and by the way, you know, we're

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Speaker 3: in the United Kingdom. You're not allowed to compare Trump

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Speaker 3: to these fascists. So I'll try not to do that.

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Speaker 3: But Mussolini did dead took over the arts. What happened

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Speaker 3: to Mussolini in the end? People turned on him, right,

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Speaker 3: So I mean, you do enough crazy stuff over time

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Speaker 3: that people will turn on you and.

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Speaker 2: The message you're giving us all because.

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Speaker 3: I think it's you. I mean you're doing people are

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Speaker 3: doing very crazy things in the United States right now.

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Speaker 3: Listen to the Boss, Listen to Bruce Springsteen. They'll tell

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Speaker 3: you what I.

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Speaker 2: Was really proud of him, because I think there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of thought going on, is how do we oppose

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Speaker 2: what is the opposition right now? You know, how do

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Speaker 2: we express our frustration or disdain or anger for what

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Speaker 2: our country is representing?

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Speaker 1: Right now?

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Speaker 3: So how would you let me? So let me say

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Speaker 3: something I think it's important. This is original programming for

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Speaker 3: me because I haven't really shared this with anybody. Think

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Speaker 3: about my life experience. I was with Trump, and I

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Speaker 3: was with Trump seeing something, and then it was manifesting

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Speaker 3: and overlaying what I saw on President Trump. And so

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Speaker 3: what did I see? I saw a group of people

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Speaker 3: in our country, the United States, who were feeling economically

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Speaker 3: left out this twenty sixteen. In my neighborhood, I would

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Speaker 3: describe the neighbor I grew up in as economically asper.

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Speaker 3: My father didn't make a lot of money, but he

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Speaker 3: certainly thought its kids would go on to make some

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Speaker 3: money and live the American dream. It was upward mobility,

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Speaker 3: I would say. When I was campaigning with President Trump

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Speaker 3: and I was by accident with him because I was

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Speaker 3: with Jeff Bush Jet Bush lost, he asked me to

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Speaker 3: go work for him, and so I accepted. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I made a lot of mistakes, but perhaps that was

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Speaker 3: the first one. But what I saw is very relevant

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Speaker 3: for twenty twenty five because I'm sure it's happening here

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Speaker 3: in the United Kingdom. There is a feeling of lower

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Speaker 3: and middle income people that they're not getting ahead for

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Speaker 3: their children. Forget about themselves for a minute, my dad

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Speaker 3: economically aspirational. Today, same person, they're feeling economically desperational. They

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Speaker 3: don't have the same living standards that they once had

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Speaker 3: in blue collar America. And by the way, when I

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Speaker 3: was with the president President Trump in twenty sixteen, I

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Speaker 3: priced my dad's wages and I told him that those

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Speaker 3: ways are now down twenty six and a half percent

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Speaker 3: in real terms, that would put my family not in

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Speaker 3: a small house, but renting somewhere, possibly on an EBT

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Speaker 3: or governmental assistance card. And so there's a real dilemma

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Speaker 3: going on in the country now. He unfortunately has taken

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Speaker 3: advantage of it for his own personal purposes, and those

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Speaker 3: people are galvanized to him because they don't feel there

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Speaker 3: are other alternatives. There haven't heard anything from the establishment

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Speaker 3: politicians in thirty years. You know, those people's grandparents voted

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Speaker 3: for Linda Johnson, they voted for Jack Kennedy. Maybe the

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Speaker 3: great grandparents voted for FDR, but the Democrats left them.

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Speaker 3: The Republicans were never with them. And so Trump's populous

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Speaker 3: message has galvanized a lot of people. And of course

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Speaker 3: you've had the Democrats make a lot of missteps in

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Speaker 3: terms of the way they handle the last election. But

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Speaker 3: there's it would be remiss of me not to bring

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Speaker 3: up the dilemma, why are fifty percent of the United

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Speaker 3: States voting with him? There were forty of us that

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Speaker 3: worked for him, that begged people not to vote for him.

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Speaker 2: I would say the disaffection and the you know, the separation,

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Speaker 2: the feeling of being abandoned for the class of America

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Speaker 2: who felt that the society they were promised, the expectations

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Speaker 2: they thought they would have, were played to by a

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Speaker 2: populist who did it through racism, through status division, through divisions.

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Speaker 2: So if they wanted that ianization, would they go for

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Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton? That said, I understand what

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Speaker 2: you're talking about, but we'll do it through what you said,

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Speaker 2: through empathy. We'll care about the people who don't have

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Speaker 2: health care, or care about the people who are waiting

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Speaker 2: at the border to have a new life. Instead of

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Speaker 2: saying these people do not deserve this, we were angry

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Speaker 2: at these people. And that's what that's what's what I

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Speaker 2: think was manipulated by is that. It's a long conversation,

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Speaker 2: but I think there were two ways to go. There's

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Speaker 2: the and you worked for com you worked for the Democrats,

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Speaker 2: and I know there's so many problems, but I work.

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Speaker 3: I worked for her. I helped her on the debate prep.

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Speaker 3: I spent hours with her team uh in her debate preparator.

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Speaker 3: Iways just say this, Bernie was too far to the

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Speaker 3: left for the US left. The country is a primarily

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Speaker 3: centrist country in some ways center right. Hillary Clinton would

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Speaker 3: have been a very good president, but she unfortunately doesn't

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Speaker 3: have the personality for our time. You know, maybe she

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Speaker 3: could have if she campaigned in a different era. This

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Speaker 3: is a hiring decision that's based on popularity. Now, you

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Speaker 3: know it's not a hiring decision that's based on qualifications.

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Speaker 3: Having a popularity contest versus sitting around in a boardroom

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Speaker 3: trying to make a decision.

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Speaker 2: Did you think she would win?

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Speaker 3: I got that wrong. I thought she was gonna win.

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Speaker 3: Alistair Campbell and I Rory Stewart actually bet money on it.

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Speaker 3: I traveled in enough areas of the Swings days to

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Speaker 3: see her momentum and her rallies were building, and I

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Speaker 3: thought she was gonna win. I was very surprised by

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Speaker 3: the results. But remember he won by like one and

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Speaker 3: a half points. He only won by three hundred thousand votes.

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Speaker 3: You know, but the Democrats did something, and if Democrats

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Speaker 3: are listening, it'd be really mad at me. But I

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Speaker 3: did Gavin Newsom's podcast that I told him this, how

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Speaker 3: do you let Elon Musk and Bobby Kennedy out of

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Speaker 3: your party? As an example, Lennon Johnson would have never

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Speaker 3: done that. Okay, Joe Biden And it turns out it

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Speaker 3: was probably Joe Biden's staff, now that we're learning about

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden. But he gets disinvited from the Electric Vehicle summit.

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Speaker 3: What are you guys doing? Lindon Johnson had one of

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Speaker 3: the best lines ever. Let's get all the elephants into

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Speaker 3: tent this way. If they have to take a piss,

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Speaker 3: they piss out of the tent. Don't let an elephant

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Speaker 3: outside of the tent that could potentially piss into the tent.

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Speaker 3: Elon and Bobby Kennedy really helped Donald Trump more than

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Speaker 3: people realize.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Imagine a state bottled olive oil chosen and bottled

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Speaker 3: So I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood. My

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Speaker 3: mother ever went to college. So I grew up in

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Speaker 3: Port Washington, which is on Long Island. Some very wealthy

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Speaker 3: areas there, but like in places like Greenwich or Port Washington,

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Speaker 3: Great Neck, there are also blue collar areas. I mean

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Speaker 3: there's places where you got to put the landscapers and

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Speaker 3: the sheet rock people and the plumbers. And so my

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Speaker 3: dad was a union guy. He was a crane operator

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Speaker 3: in the town. So he's spent forty one years as

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Speaker 3: a construction worker. Smoker, drinker, super hard guy, not gonna

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Speaker 3: bes anybody. So he was very tough on us as kids. Three.

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Speaker 3: I have an older brother and a younger sister. My

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Speaker 3: mother was a cosmetologist. Okay, so when I go on

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Speaker 3: TV I have my makeup, she will call me and

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Speaker 3: tell me I've got the wrong color. Your Mac number

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Speaker 3: five is my you know, cosmetology like cosmetics, and so

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Speaker 3: we rarely saw her on Saturdays because she was with

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Speaker 3: bridal parties on Saturdays making them up. And she worked

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Speaker 3: at a local nail salon and sold cosmetics and did

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Speaker 3: makeup artists basically. But those are my parents' jobs, super

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Speaker 3: hard working, very tight, lots of tight financial situation, a

432
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 3: lot of middle class upbringing. I would never dishonor my

433
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 3: parents by telling you I grew up poor. I did

434
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 3: not grow poor. We had a great middle class upbringing,

435
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 3: but a small house, you know, and we had you know,

436
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 3: I mean had a little hallway kitchen with a sixpansive

437
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 3: beautiful kitchen here we had my mother had this little

438
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 3: hallway kitchen, and then off the kitchen there was a

439
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 3: little vestibule that had a round table that really could

440
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: fit six, but we always had eight to ten people

441
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 3: shoved into.

442
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 2: The table, friends and family.

443
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 3: Family, and I have a big the neighbor I grew

444
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 3: up in. I have about twelve cousins that grew up

445
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 3: alongside of my brother and sister. So so my grandmother

446
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 3: was alive. She was a huge cook, took everything.

447
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: She the first generation to come from its.

448
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 3: First generation got to the US in nineteen twenty three.

449
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 3: My other grandparents got to the US a little earlier

450
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 3: than that, but she was eighteen and nineteen twenty three

451
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 3: she married my grandfather. Obviously he was from the same

452
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 3: town as her. It was an arranged marriage, and so

453
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 3: he went to Italy, back to the town he was from,

454
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 3: and him and his mom and dad selected my grandmother

455
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 3: and they did some kind of agreement, and believe it

456
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 3: or not, there was a dowry and all kinds of stuff,

457
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 3: and she moved to New York had three children.

458
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 2: Her coming from a town in Italy into a country

459
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 2: you didn't know what the.

460
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 3: Man you didn't couldn't couldn't, couldn't speak the English, read

461
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: ill progress. So you grew up in upstate New York.

462
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 3: You remember, do you remember what town in the Gascock?

463
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: And before that, I was from Monticello. I was born

464
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 2: in Monticello.

465
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 3: Probably know those towns well because I have a house

466
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 3: in Green County, a house by window Mountain. But anyway,

467
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 3: you know, she comes. She's ten years younger than my grandfather.

468
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 3: They have three kids. My two uncles go to the

469
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 3: Second World War. My uncle Anthony, who I'm named after,

470
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: was a Normandy beach survived. It was wounded in a

471
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: town in France on the way to Paris. Was in

472
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 3: an army hospital for about two months. I rejected the

473
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 3: opportunity to get disc George and he fought in the

474
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 3: Battle of the Bulge and then he went on to

475
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 3: Potsdam and so he had an incredible story in the war.

476
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: My other uncle got to the war for the Battle

477
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 3: of the Bulge as well. But I'm from a family

478
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 3: of Italian immigrants. On both sides. It was old school stuff, Ruthie.

479
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 3: We're talking about stepping on grapes at about we're talking

480
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 3: about in a bathtub. I can remember my uncles and

481
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 3: grandfather wash your feet and you get up on the grapes,

482
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 3: you step, crush him down. They scoop all that up,

483
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 3: put it in a press. I mean this wine we

484
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 3: were see you and I are old enough to remember

485
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 3: the tropicana class charge. You remember, Okay, so my grandfather

486
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 3: was probably forty proof red wine. Okay, we're talking about

487
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 3: like grape spike, grape juice, and I can remember, but

488
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: I just remember I remember getting drunk on it at

489
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 3: age eight or nine. I mean he would he would

490
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 3: put it in a glass tropic cana I just thought

491
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: it was grape juice. I was drinking it was getting

492
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 3: drunk off the sub. But but we had we had pigs.

493
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: Slaughter the pig.

494
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: You'd make in your garden.

495
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 3: No, he would, No, he would in Port Washington. He

496
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: would go buy the pig from one of the farms.

497
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 3: He would cook it or cure it, or you know,

498
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 3: take the legs off and make pursude. He'd wrap it.

499
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 3: You'd have a little area of the you have a

500
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 3: little section of the grandfather, my grandfather.

501
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so good.

502
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 3: And so I mean we this was made made projutto

503
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 3: homemade naughkey. Uh, I can still And when I go

504
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 3: to Rios, and I know you're familiar with rails. When

505
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 3: I go to Raos, I tell those guys up there

506
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 3: to taste like my nana's meatballs from the nineteen seventies.

507
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 3: Is that same way that they processed the meat. They

508
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: fry it a little bit, they poach it a little bit,

509
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 3: they put it in the sauce.

510
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: And so this is your grandmother who came from the

511
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: small town, came to America. A man who made prescuto,

512
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 2: carried on this Italian culture putting bacci.

513
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, my uncles played the accordion. Remember this is some

514
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 3: old school stuff. I mean, so I a song el progress.

515
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: So you know, this is the other thing about growing

516
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: up like that. No Italian spoken by any of our

517
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 3: cousinme because my grandmother was strict about it. The you know,

518
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 3: the Italians, as you know, were discriminated against when they

519
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: came in. There were signs in this no Nina, no

520
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 3: Italians need apply. So we you know, my grandmother was

521
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 3: very strict about us speaking Italian. My parents speak Italian.

522
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: My uncles, of course spoke Italian, they're not a deceased,

523
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 3: but none of us spoke Italian. But they were old

524
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 3: school people. I mean, you know, when I'm sixty one now,

525
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 3: when I think about that time in my life. Even

526
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 3: though my father was rough on us and he was

527
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 3: a hard blue collar guy, not educated, there was a

528
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: family atmosphere that was very solidifying. I think you learn

529
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: from your family what they care about. And my grandmother

530
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 3: had one of the best lines ever, which I always

531
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 3: say to my kids, what other people think of you

532
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 3: as none of your business. And it's very important to

533
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 3: tell kids, especially in the age of social media, because

534
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 3: they can get on the social media and it can

535
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 3: give them a distortion of what's going on in the world.

536
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 3: They can feel insecure or left out or have fomo.

537
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 3: And the message from the nineteen twenties and thirties is

538
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 3: an immigrant Italian relax. You know what I mean? You know,

539
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: don't care. Mel Brooks has a great line which I

540
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 3: always tell the kids, You'll relax. None of us are

541
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 3: getting out of your life. You relax, you're fire from

542
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: a job, who cares, have a step back in your business. Relax.

543
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: An open kitchen in the River Cafe means we as

544
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: chefs are able to talk to our guests dining in

545
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: the restaurant. And now we're bringing that same ethos to

546
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: our podcast, a Question an Answer episode with me and

547
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: our two executive chefs. Send a voice note with your

548
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: question to Questions at Rivercafe dot co dot org. Okay,

549
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: and you might just be our next great guest. On

550
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: Ruthie's Table four, it's interesting about food and food and memories.

551
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: And you talk about you know your grandmother in a

552
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: way that there are probably many many ways to describe

553
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: your grandmother who did but you also your memories are

554
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 2: of the food you had. I can picture your mother's kitchen.

555
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: I was wondering if you might tell me about how

556
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: food is in your house right now.

557
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: Listen. I mean food is the center of everything in

558
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: the family like ours. I mean, my wife is also

559
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 3: Italian mother, and my wife is actually has Norwegian and

560
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 3: German in her genealogy, but her grandmother was Italian and

561
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 3: her mother was raised in an Italian culture. So our

562
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 3: house is also as that Italian thing where everything is

563
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: sort of centered around food. But I will say this

564
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: to you, that something that I miss that we really

565
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 3: try to get back to, which is really hard in

566
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 3: our current culture, which is what we're doing right now.

567
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 3: We're at the table, we have no phones, we're eating,

568
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,239
Speaker 3: we're talking to each other, We're locked in, and I

569
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: really benefit from that as a kid, you know, with

570
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 3: my grandparents in the room where my you know, my

571
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: grandmother had some of the best lines. I always tell

572
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 3: people my grandmother used to say to us that the

573
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 3: best among us, and she said it in Italian. I

574
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 3: wouldn't even know how to say it in Italian, but

575
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 3: it translates like this, the best among us choose not

576
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 3: to judge human frailty so harshly. It's not a beautiful

577
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 3: way to think about people. And then you know the

578
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 3: other thing that she always said to us, which I

579
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 3: try to take with me. She's very religious. She was

580
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 3: very Roman Catholic. She went to church, confession, communion, the

581
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 3: whole thing. But she really believed in karma. She was like,

582
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 3: if you do, you know, be the first one to give,

583
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: you know, don't you know. And I'm bastardizing it now,

584
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 3: I'm making it more modern. But it was like, a

585
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,239
Speaker 3: don't be transactional, be nonlinear in life, you know what

586
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: I mean, do a favor for somebody without them asking,

587
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 3: or you know, hand the extra dollar to somebody that

588
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 3: may need it. There was a generosity about her that

589
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 3: I tried to take with me. She was also a maid,

590
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: so I always say this to my kids. You know,

591
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 3: when I'm in a hotel, I'm always leaving money in

592
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: the room because it could be somebody's grandmother. You know.

593
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: I think about my grandmother, what she had to do,

594
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: the wrisk she had to take to come to the

595
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 3: United States, marrying somebody she really didn't know, building a family,

596
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 3: but also had to work. It was a dual income

597
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 3: family to survive. But she couldn't get a job and

598
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 3: she didn't speak English, so she was turning beds, you know.

599
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 3: And so I think about that all time, and I

600
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 3: think people have to put in perspective their lives and

601
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 3: treat the other people around them with some level of kindness.

602
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: And that's something you're great at, which is why your

603
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 3: restaurant is learning. The food is great, but you're great

604
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 3: at that. But when I think about food, that is

605
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: part of that giving thing, you know, like I'm always

606
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 3: I mean, if you come to my house, you're gonna

607
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 3: eat to the point of explosion, right, because.

608
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 2: We have to make sure it's about sharing. It's also

609
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: about comfort, isn't it. So you know, if we think

610
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: that food alleviates hunger or it makes us feel connected

611
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 2: to people we might not know, taste this. Try this.

612
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: One of the nice things I love is being at

613
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: the past and seeing people eating with their children often

614
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: or with each other, sharing food, tasting each other's food,

615
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: responding to it. It's also it is comfort.

616
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: And so you know, for my grandmother to come to

617
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 3: your restaurant, it would be the luxury of luxuries, right

618
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,959
Speaker 3: because she cooked it. She cooked it from scratch, then

619
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: she cleaned up, you know, and so if she came

620
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: here and she didn't have to cook it, and she

621
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: didn't have to clean up. It was a great experience.

622
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 3: I got to tell this story before we leave because

623
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 3: it's about American Italian American patriarchy. So my old boss,

624
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 3: who's a great guy, I was on the Golden Sack

625
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: sales desk. He was a Jewish guy from San Francisco.

626
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 3: He's like, mooch, your grandmother and your mother they cook.

627
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 3: I said, yeah, they cook. He says, all right, you

628
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: do Sunday you do Sunday meals? I said, yeah, we

629
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 3: do Sunday meals one o'clock on a Sunday after church.

630
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 3: All right, I want to impose my fiance on your mother.

631
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 3: I got to come out and have an old school

632
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: Italian home cooked meal. You're welcome anytime. And so he

633
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 3: came up to the little house with the litanoleum, you

634
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 3: know Carol Brady from the Brady Bunch called, wanted the

635
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: paneling back. I mean, that's the house I grew up in.

636
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 3: And we were at that little table verse six where

637
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 3: we had eight people there or ten, and my mother

638
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 3: cooked up a storm. My sister was there helping her.

639
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 3: And when the meal was over, my sister and mother

640
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: got up and they started cleaning. Okay, did I get

641
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 3: up and start cleaning? I did not, And his fiance

642
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: got up and started cleaning, and Gary looked over me says,

643
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 3: you're not going to get up and helped them clean,

644
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 3: and I looked at them. I said, no. That never

645
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 3: dawned on me. Okay, it was so patrioical. Okay that

646
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 3: literally didn't get it, didn't get up. And so we're

647
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 3: now fast forward to where we are today. Right. I

648
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 3: always try to remind people we've come a long way

649
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 3: from that experience, but some of us grow up like that,

650
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 3: So go a little easy on us. So we're doing

651
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 3: the best weekend. I mean, I'm I'm all about the equality,

652
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 3: I'm all about the whole thing. But in a traditional family,

653
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 3: that's how it went down, and there was no there

654
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 3: was even a discussion about it. But I was twenty

655
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 3: seven or twenty eight years old when it dawned me, Wait,

656
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 3: you're doing You need me to watch that vision having

657
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 3: made ruthy, I've changed diapers.

658
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 2: I watched, But you haven't read your recipe yet. We

659
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: like to tell people how to make, how to do

660
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: a recipe, and you can change it you can read

661
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 2: it any way you want.

662
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I'm I mean, this is linguini with

663
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 3: fresh and dried oregano. But there's also some amazing red

664
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 3: Datorini tomatoes in this. So it's two handfuls of fresh

665
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 3: oregano finally chopped, twenty five grams of dried oregano on

666
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: the branch and the leaves are crumbled. And then these

667
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 3: Daturini tomatoes. There's twelve red Daturini tomatoes. They are quartered

668
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 3: and seeded, but they're not cooked yet, and that's one

669
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 3: of the more brilliant things about this dish. There are

670
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 3: twelve yellow Dati tomatoes. They're quartered and seeded. And then

671
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: there's one hundred milli liters of extra version olive oil.

672
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 3: And then this is the kicker, which makes the thing

673
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 3: taste amazing. It's one tablespoon of red wine vinegar, which

674
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 3: you can taste it in the sauce. It is absolutely delicious.

675
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 3: Two hundred and fifty grams of linguini. Of course, we're

676
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 3: going to cook Dad al Dante, and here's what we do.

677
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 3: You take the red wine vinegar. This lists of recipe.

678
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 3: It's important that you serve this on hot plates, but

679
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 3: you mix the fresh and dried oregano together, combined the

680
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 3: tomatoes with extra version olive oil, the red wine vinegar,

681
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 3: and sea salt and black pepper. So he mixed all

682
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 3: of that up. Then you set that aside to marinate.

683
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 3: If I set that right, marinate, cook the linguini and

684
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 3: a generous amount of boiling salted water. Then drain and

685
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 3: return to the pan. Toss with the oregano mixture and

686
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 3: the marinated tomatoes until very hot. Then, sirve, But I

687
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: noticed something that your chef did which I thought was awesome.

688
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: He took some of the water which was loaded with

689
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 3: salt and some of the starch from the pasta, and

690
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 3: he poured that into the saute, which gave it a

691
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 3: little bit of a thickening quality, and added a little

692
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 3: dash of salt. So I thought that was majestic. So

693
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 3: this is linguini with fresh and dried oregano. And I

694
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: don't know how did I do? Did I say that? All?

695
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: Right?

696
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 3: So well, and I'm ready to eat. The guy did

697
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 3: another another portion of that, so my head can explode

698
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: from the shirt that I'm wearing. Yeah, so amazing.

699
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 2: My last question to you, because I was starting to

700
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: talk about what food means to us, and it means

701
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 2: memories of your family. It means sharing with your children,

702
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 2: teaching them values and feeling empathy, resilience. It can all

703
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: be your grandmother's kitchen. What if you needed to have

704
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: comfort food, you told me you love peanut butter and jelly,

705
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 2: which is fine. One of my guests, Austin Butler, when

706
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: he was I asked him his comfort food. He remembered

707
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with his mother

708
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 2: before she died, and that was something he meant to him.

709
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 2: But I think we do go to food for comfort.

710
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: You've had the need of comfort, you have had need

711
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: for comfort in your life.

712
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 3: Were huge awesome Butler fans. By the way, my son

713
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 3: has a close relationship with him, and I mean door

714
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 3: that guy. But here's what I would say to you

715
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 3: for me and food, and I think you'll get this

716
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 3: because you ethereally have this. When I think of food,

717
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 3: I do think of my grandparents, and I do think

718
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 3: of the preparation, but I also think of the simplicity.

719
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 3: And I think it's very very important for people, whatever

720
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 3: they're doing in their life, whatever they're aspiring to, some

721
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 3: things are going to go well. Other things are not

722
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 3: going to go well. But food for me is that anchor.

723
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 3: It reminds me of what is important. And I'm going

724
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 3: to send you I did this thing for Vox Media

725
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 3: and they said, okay, so what did you do after

726
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 3: you got fired?

727
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 2: What I do?

728
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 3: I flew to Italy? Why do I fly to Italy?

729
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 3: Because the Italians know they're going to die, they already

730
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 3: had their empire. They're going to serve me a slice

731
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 3: of pizza. I'm gonna eat some pasta and have a

732
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 3: glass of red wine. Who gives a shit about getting fired?

733
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: Right?

734
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 3: And the point I'm making is that food for me

735
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 3: in my life has been like the anchor to the simplicity,

736
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 3: the anchor to that low expectation that man, can I

737
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 3: just have this meal? And I want to tell you

738
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 3: this story and I hope it makes the podcast. A

739
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 3: deceased friend who is a Holocaust survivor, and I was

740
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 3: a young man and I was working at Goldman Sachs

741
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 3: at the time, and he was a Holocaust child refugee.

742
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 3: He met his wife in the refugee camp in Europe

743
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 3: before they were sent to the United States into a

744
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 3: foster situation. He ended up marrying her, and he had

745
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 3: the indelible ink on his forearm. And he was the nicest,

746
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 3: loveliest person, literally you could imagine. And I used to

747
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 3: go to dinner with him at a local Italian restaurant

748
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: and I'm going to show you something with my hand,

749
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 3: and for the people are listening to audio, I'll explain

750
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 3: what I'm doing. When the plate got served, Ruthie, he

751
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: would look over at me, wash my hand. He would

752
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: go like this. He would go like this, and this

753
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 3: sweeping of his hand, looking at the abundance on the plate.

754
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 3: He was sending a message to me. He was like Anthony.

755
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 3: I was in a refugeek. I was in a concentration

756
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 3: camp as a young kid, got rickets. They didn't feed me.

757
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 3: Now I'm in the United States. He had this beautiful

758
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 3: wicker furniture company that he built, and he was a

759
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 3: multi millionaire many times over. And every time the plate

760
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 3: landed in front of him, Ruthie, he took his hand

761
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: and he sweeped it over the plate, like acknowledging the

762
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 3: miracle of the abundance and the simplicity of that meal.

763
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 3: We need to think about that in our lives, you know,

764
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 3: we have to. When the plate hits and we're able

765
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 3: to eat it and we're nourished by this beautiful earth

766
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 3: that we're living on. Think of that man who started

767
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 3: his life, the early part of his life in a

768
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 3: concentration camp, and how grateful he was for that meal.

769
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: Gratitude. I'm a gratitude. I feel gratitude to you for coming.

770
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, and though it's great to be here,

771
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership

772
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: with Montclair