WEBVTT - Ep. 105: Monster Mountain Whitetail 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:15.600 Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today, 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:17.320 we're in the middle of white tail week here at 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.079 me Eaither and we're going to dive deep into one 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.800 of the most popular hunting topics in North America, hunting 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:24.120 the white tail deer. Today I brought on a special 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.560 guest from North Idaho who pretty much has these big 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:29.520 white tails dialed, but it may be a little different 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.239 than the Midwest tactics that you've heard of. Troy Pottinger. 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:33.920 Welcome to the Shoy. 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.800 Troy, Hey, Jason, thanks for having me. I appreciate you 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:37.959 guys bringing me on. 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.800 Yeah, we're going to talk about everything from the fundamentals 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.159 to some of your advanced tactics if you're willing to 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.800 share them. But how's your season been so far? I 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:48.800 know you've been out chasing them, you you know, in 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.720 our in our conversation last night, you showed a couple 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.520 of pictures of some big ones you're after. So how's 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:55.520 it been so far on this this what would be 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:56.680 considered the early season. 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.120 That's been tough. It's a grind always in the early 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.440 season when you're hunting in true back country mountain white 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.800 tails like these guys are the bucks I'm hunting, are 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:11.039 twenty miles from any agriculture, and they're up at higher elevation, 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:16.080 so they're true mountain deer. And I hunt northern Idaho 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.880 in eastern Washington early, So I bounce back and forth 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:23.240 depending upon I pick out a specific target buck in 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.200 every in each state, and then I try to go 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.240 kill that buck. So I would say that it has 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.320 been a it's been it's been pretty tough with the 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:36.399 heat and just getting the buck I want to kill, 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.400 to get up and move in the daylight without him 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.320 knowing I'm around, Like I got to be real close 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:42.959 to his bed. 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.040 Yeah, And and we'll jump into that more in the 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.320 main discussion, because I'm really curious, you know, when we 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:50.680 go to you know, to Kansas or wherever we white 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:52.760 till hunt, you know that distance from bed to feed 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:54.600 and if you can catch them on the ground, you know, 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.720 in the daylight, versus like what your some of your 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.480 strategy and how that plays out in the mountains and 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.200 how close you have to be. So I'm gonna we're 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.400 gonna get to those in a little bit. We're gonna 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.920 start every episode like we normally do with the Pendleton Whiskeys, 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.520 Q and A. These are just listener questions that we 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:12.840 get a lot that I feel are better answered by 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:15.040 our expert guests. I'm gonna kind of throw three questions 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.560 at you here, Troy, and see what you what you 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:19.320 think of these and we can take these questions. You 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:23.600 can email them to us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.200 dot com, or you can send them to them to 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.239 us on social which is how we get the majority 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.600 of these. So, in your opinion, how does moon phase 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.720 impact white tailed deer movement and do you as a 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:36.720 hunter adjust your strategy for it? 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.800 Well, it does impact movement, but I don't think it's 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:47.960 as impactful as say weather conditions are wind direction for movement. 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:53.280 And again I'm hunting that old age structure out here, 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.720 five six seven year old bucks, so they're kind of 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:02.520 a different animal within themselves. Do I pay attention to 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.560 the moon phase? Yeah? Do I think it trumps weather 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:15.280 and fronts and pressure? I don't think so. 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.320 So, so you will pay attention to it? And what 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.919 does what do you typically see what that moon phase? 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:19.880 You Let's say we're we're going into a full moon, 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.720 which seems you know from from the elk hunting side 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.200 kind of limit movement pushes movement more into the night. 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.320 Is that kind of the same with white tails? Are 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.560 you just seeing later movement they're in their beds earlier? 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.840 What does that typically do to a white tail negatively? 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.160 How does it negatively impact the hunt? 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.720 Yeah? You know, I grew up hunting elk my whole 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.240 life too, embars and everything up here in North Idaho. 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:46.960 The uh, the big moon at night, the big light 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.600 at night always seems to get the deer more active 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.560 at night. In my opinion, I like those dark, dark 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.640 moon nights. I usually see a little more daylight movement, 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.840 but it's usually in conjunction with the right weather conditions 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:01.200 and pressures too. 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.160 Gotcha. Okay, the second question, what are the key differences 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.640 in hunting strategies between like your early season, because I 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.760 know you're hunting, you know, we're we're in early September now, 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.120 and then i've you know, seen that you you know, 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.159 you're killing some giant bucks, you know, into the middle 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:17.880 of December. At times, it seems like, so how do 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.279 you what are those difference in hunting strategies? How do 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.240 you start to change? Are you hunting the same stands 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.080 from start to finish? Or do you have multiple cams 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.560 out and you're kind of moving down elevation with deer 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.640 the rut. You know, kind of if you can, you know, 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.200 give us your your your play on how those strategies change. 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.600 Well, that's a huge topic and you know, just just 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.440 to be you know, to kind of hit on the 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.040 you know, the right now type white tael stuff. It's 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:48.520 extremely difficult because they are at the top of their game. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.520 They have no distractions. The white tails that I'm hunting 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.680 live in heavy predation. Had a big wolf on my 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.279 trail camera last night after I checked it after I left, 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:06.119 So right now and I've killed you know, I've killed 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:10.040 five big white tails in the month of September August 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.560 thirtieth through September. In my lifetime, I've killed five of 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.760 my best white tails with a boat. But that's five 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:22.400 out of over forty. So this time of the year, 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.839 they're at the top of the game. They have no distractions. 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:31.400 They do two things. They eat and drink and I'll 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.080 put that together. They eat and drink and they survive 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:39.800 predators and then they dodge. They dodge you know, the 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.279 human intrusion from elk season and the guys that are 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:46.520 hunting white tails two so this time of the year, 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.599 I have to be very close to their betting zone. 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.000 These mountain bucks don't bet in the same bed every 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.279 day they'd be they turn into wolf shit if they were, 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:59.760 so they move around. I have to stay really tight, 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.200 but a really tight grip the best I can on 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:06.160 them with some cameras and obviously any type of observation, 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.520 and I put a ton of time into it. But 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.480 if I don't have a tight grip and I don't 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.200 set up close to them, and I have a mobiles, 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.880 I have mobile set I have mobile gear setups, and 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.320 people that don't know me, I work for Lone Wolf 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.279 Custom Gear and White Tail Addictions and have for years, 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.880 so I have some permanent setups over big scrapes. But 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:29.320 I also have my mobile setups to move at any moment, 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:34.000 so I'm always set up or I'm always prepared to 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.960 move when I need to. And I have to move 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.960 with those early season bucks where their preferred betting is. 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:41.600 And if I'm not tight to their betting, I'll never 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.200 find them because in the mountains they have feed in 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.720 every direction and they have a lot of water, so 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.359 it's not like they're traveling to a destination food source 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:50.440 on an alfalfa field. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.320 Yep, yeah, and staying tight to their bed. How do 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.440 you keep track of that, Troy? Are you using cams? 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.320 Are you just making educated guests? Are assumptions like I 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:02.760 haven't seen him here in a couple of days. I 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.400 think he's moved here, Like, how are you making those? 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.799 How are you determining when you think he's changed beds 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:10.320 or where's bed maybe at that time? 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.200 That's good question. I you know, I'm a huge proponent 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:18.080 and I've done it for thirty plus years. White tail deer, 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:23.239 all white tail deer, especially these mountain bucks, because there's 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:28.040 a low deer density of bucks, and does they all 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:32.960 adhere to social community scrapes year around, They check liking 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:38.800 branches and they address scrapes year round. And most people 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:44.760 that don't have an in depth knowledge of white tail 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:49.840 behavior probably wouldn't believe that unless they looked at all 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:51.760 my years and years of videos of them do it 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:55.120 from year round. So everything that I do is based 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.880 around big scrapes that are in the mountains and in 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.520 the early season, it's all about the licking branch and 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:05.360 them communicating. So I position myself in locations where those 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.480 scrapes show me that a mature buck to say I 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.080 want to kill that he's frequenting and if I can 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.240 get him to frequent in in the daylight, I know 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.000 in the early season he's not far from me. So 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:21.119 then I take a look at the big picture I've walked, 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:22.640 you know. I do a ton of scouting, a ton 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:26.080 of walking. I know the country that he's living in, 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:31.840 and I base his location and his bedding zone on 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:37.199 the most preferred security cover habitat for him that's adjacent 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:42.240 to these big community hubs that I get him on, 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.880 and then the wind will always steer him daily in 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.120 the thermals and put him in his bed. So I 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.720 find these betting zones based on how the wind works 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:55.679 in those drainages and how the thermals work with it, 0:08:56.080 --> 0:09:02.000 and it positions those bucks to help them survive all 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.240 the predators and the hunters. You know, I elk do 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.120 the same thing. Elk use those thermals and hubs and 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.400 winds to position themselves to survive and be you know, 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.560 and to exist into bed so they're never laying in 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.680 the same exact bed. But I'll get a buck that 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.880 will bed in a zone an area, and I'll target 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.760 that area. And then in this early season, I worked 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.559 really hard to get him to show up at my scrapes, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.440 and the buck I'm trying to kill right now is 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:34.480 hitting my liking branches and scrapes. He has been since April, gotcha. 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:36.839 So he's in been in that same area once the 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:37.439 snow melt. 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.160 He's in that draank. Yeah, he's in the drainage. The 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.720 drainage is big. I've got multiple sites set up for him, 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:47.880 and he moves around with predation. As soon as the 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.400 predators show up, the lions and the wolves, as soon 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.160 as they show up, he bounces. So it is a 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:57.080 very difficult task at hand compared to when I hunt 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.320 Oklahoma or Ohio or places where the destination food is there, 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.559 the small wood lot is there, they're congregated. Mountain deer 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.680 are not congregated. They can go one hundred miles in 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:09.280 any direction they want and survive. 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.560 Yeah, I mean, that's that's awesome information. And I've always 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:16.520 just been curious, you know, on such a big, vast landscape. 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.040 But it sounds like you use you know, some licking 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.240 branches and some stuff like that where you know he's 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.840 been there and you know he's in the area. That's great. 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:25.440 Tip Troy. 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.360 Well, the the whitetails that I kill usually grow up 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.360 on my scrapes for three to four years, and I 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:35.000 just condition them there, meaning I watched them grow from 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:36.920 two and a half and I don't hunt them till 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.880 they're five or six. So I play a long game 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.520 with big white tails, and if they can survive, then 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:47.400 I jump into the game with them when they're five 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.480 and six. But I've got years of history with them, 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.000 if you will. 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.120 Yeah, so you've got them pattern before you ever really 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.160 want to hunt them. Yes, it's to some degree, I mean, 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.680 and their patterns made. I'm sure their patterns changes. They 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:01.520 get a little smarter, but at least there's like a 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.000 base pattern you can go off of. 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.560 And absolutely they tighten everything up as they get older 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:10.079 and smarter, they make less mistakes. The buck i'm hunt 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.440 right now got shot through the hips last year by 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.440 a rifle hunter. Had a hole in both hips. Can't 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.360 believe he survived it, but he was a four and 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.040 a half year old and I left him alone last 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.600 year because I knew he'd be tremendous this year, and 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:24.880 sure enough, he shows up in the spring with a 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.760 hole in both hips, and I was thinking, I can't 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.920 believe this deer survived that. But on the flip side 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:37.439 of that, that deer acts five years older than he 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.199 did last year at four and a half. He acts 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:40.600 totally different now because of that. 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.920 Yeah, yeah, changed them around that. Yeah, that's interesting, interesting 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.920 data point to you know, why is he probably have 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:49.480 been smart as a five year old, but you know, 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.200 he's acting like a seven to eight year old deer 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.079 just you know WHI is the world. 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.679 Yeah, he's acting like he's a straight up crackhead in 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:59.160 April May and juke, like he's on full alert when 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.160 he walks around. On a ton of videos so that 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:05.160 I can actually observe and watch these bucks. So on 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.160 my trail cameras, I run long video on purpose at 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:12.680 these scrapes and just watching his demeanor and how he 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.480 searches for a trail camera and how he acts different 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:18.960 walking in than all the other deer and all the 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.200 other deer mountaineer too, and they're very careful. But he's 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.120 going to be a tough nut to crack. But that's 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.319 what I love. I mean, that's that's where I'm at 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:30.600 in my in my life with white tails is I 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:36.000 like hunting the most mature, smartest, best white tail I 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.160 can find in the mountains because they teach me so much. 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.840 And the challenge is it's hard for me to even 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:44.520 explain unless you do it. No. 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.960 Yeah, it's like, you know, it's like the video game 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:48.560 you played as a kid. It was easy to beat 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.280 it on like the beginner level, but you want to 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:52.800 go beat the game one expert and you know, advance expert, 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:54.319 Like you want to be able to play the game 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.800 at the highest level and still win. And I respect 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:58.720 the heck out of that. And you know, certain hunts 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:00.600 we do that, and you know, certain hunts we're just 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.240 out there trying to put meat in the freezer. But 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.000 I I relate to it a little bit, like it's 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.800 sometimes fun and I'm you know, as I'm getting older 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.320 and less concerned about notching every tag, it's fun to 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.640 play the game, you know, at that higher level for sure. 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.360 Yeah, you know, I've been at this a long time. 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:22.560 I'll be fifty five this year. I absolutely love for 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:24.839 the young hunters to go get a ton of experience 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.880 and a lot of reps. Get your reps, get your kills, 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.120 don't be so darn picky, enjoy the heck out of it. 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.240 I'm just at a place now where I cherish and 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.560 love that challenge of an old mountain whitetail. And that's 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.720 what that's what trips my trigger at my at where 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.640 I'm at with white tails today. 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.800 Yep, yep. Have you have you seen? I mean, we 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:47.640 always talk about the decline and you know, the good 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:51.360 old days. Have you have those mountain white tails had 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.480 the nosedive that that, you know, all the other ungulates 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.080 around here have have shown. Are you seeing less and 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:58.959 less big ones? Is it tougher and tougher to dig 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.320 an old krusty you know, buck out of the mountains 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:02.560 than it was twenty years ago? 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.200 Absolutely? You know. I cut my teeth on mountain white 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.880 tails in the eighties. And if I you know, everybody 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.080 can say this, but if I knew back then what 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.440 I know now, I would have felt like I was 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.960 in Iowa in the eighties. I mean, we had low 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:23.240 human population up here in North Idaho. We had nobody 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.160 bowl hunting mountain white tails and getting on them and 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.040 pushing them. I just was young and learning about it. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.680 Nobody was doing it, and I when I dove into 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:33.800 it when I was young. I actually got laughed at 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.160 by the local boys in Saint Mary's, Idaho, behind the scenes, 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.120 like you're crazy, You're gonna go hunt deer with a 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.000 bow in the mountains or you kidding? And that was 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:46.360 always my motivation. I always wanted to. I wanted to hunt. 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.560 I didn't want to I didn't want to just kill 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.560 and shoot stuff. I wanted to, like get intimate with 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:57.640 proximity of killing an old whitetail, fooling him at say, 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.400 under twenty yards with a bow and arrow. So I 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:05.480 dove into that young And looking back now, the numbers 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:09.000 of mature bucks back then compared to when they opened 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.760 up a two bucks season in North Idaho and six 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:16.360 or five and the population boom into Idaho and everybody's 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.400 a hunter now and every here at the bottom line 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.480 is it's a numbers game. All tons of young bucks 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.360 get killed now we have we sell out all of 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.640 our tags every year. People come from all over out 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:28.720 of state to hunt. And it's fine, I mean, it 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.960 is what it is. We're we're killing a lot more 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.080 younger deer now than when I was growing up, because 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.600 there just sherely wasn't the amount of hunters hunting the 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.840 younger deer, if you will, so, so the age structure 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:48.320 is totally changed. And yeah, i'd say I work compared 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.160 to finding a mature buck, say in the eighties and nineties, 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.400 I say I put in one hundred percent. I put 0:15:55.400 --> 0:16:00.000 in ten times more work and travel ten times the distance, 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.320 says in the And I'm hunting public land for service 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.280 minimum of multiple of ten times the distances and travel 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.040 and effort to find an old mature buck. 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:16.239 Yes, now that's you know, you'd almost I guess predators 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.000 and hunting pressure and everything you just mentioned. You think 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.520 there might be some that are somewhat immune to the 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:23.840 changes because they are tough to find, tough to see. 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.600 But it sounds like, you know, it's still still affecting them. 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:28.920 And I bet you you wish you knew it. You 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:30.840 you know, thirty years ago, you wish you knew what 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.040 you know now when you were back there in those 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.480 heydays and had that same knowledge base. 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:37.880 I used to be able to go into any drainage 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.240 in the late eighties, early nineties and find a mature buck, 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.120 find a five year old. You can't do it now. 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.160 And of course you know we're not talking. We haven't 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.360 even talked about the predators, the wolves. I hunt Washington 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.480 and Idaho, and I've lived through all the years of 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.360 the wolf introduction in both states, seen it all. The 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.880 impact on the white tails the most in the elk 0:16:58.000 --> 0:16:59.280 is as we all know, and I don't want to 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.280 go down that rabbit hole and here has definitely added 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.400 a ton of pressure and killing to the younger deer 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:05.120 in the elk. 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.080 Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's drastic, you know, everywhere. And 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.800 you know, we've got a whole different issue over here. 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:14.520 But wolves are starting to you know, on the east 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:16.600 side of Washington for sure, and then now we've got 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:18.199 like hoof raw on the west side, and it's just 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:23.080 you know, these these uh you know, sun unmountable. Un 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:25.560 there's just that the animals don't have a chance right 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.160 now with the hoof rock, with wolves, with increased predators 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.560 are taking away our bear seasons are cougar seasons, and 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:32.680 like you said, you don't want to go down down 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.960 those rabbit holes. But there's a lot working against us 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:36.720 right now. It seems like, hey. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.960 Man, I'm right, I'm exact. I mean, couldn't agree more. 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.280 We're saying the same thing. Yep. 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.000 Okay, So my last question and then we'll jump into 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.400 our conversation. You know, you're up in the high mountains, 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.840 there are elk hunters running around, maybe other deer hunters. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.000 How does pressure from other hunters affect your deer behavior 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.800 and how have you had to adapt or how do 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.639 you deal with if your deer is in a pressured area? 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.080 Yeah? Why tell him after if he gets pressured by 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.240 a human, He's been in the game a long time, 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:15.000 he understands it, he moves, he adjusts, and he has 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.200 the freedom. He has the freedom to move in vast 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.720 country to wherever he wants to. I've had multiple years 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:26.080 where I've killed a buck five miles away on a map, 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.880 three to five miles away on a map from where 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.520 I was hunt even early season. It just happens a lot. 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:38.000 And to counter that, I put a lot of work 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:44.720 into finding those hard to find. But every now and 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:50.640 then quiet pocket areas, if you will. That usually equates 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.200 to two things or either right drive right by areas 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.720 in the mountains or hard hard work to get to, 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:58.960 and most guys won't expend the effort to get there 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:03.880 to find those pockets and genetic pools of bucks that 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.440 aren't getting disturbed quite as much by humans. They're still 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:11.120 getting all the predator pressure and all the predators. No matter, 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.800 I can't do anything about the predators. But as far 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.239 as getting away from humans, I just try to go 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.359 that extra mile all the time. And I'm willing to 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.879 do what I don't think most people are willing to 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.520 do for a white tail, to go try to hunt him, 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:30.480 and you know, great distances, long drives, long hikes, just 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.560 everything that I can do to find a little bit 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:35.880 of peace and quiet. Yes in the mountains. 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.879 Yeah, so you'll you will move away from that heavily 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.520 pressured areas. Or as you're setting your season up and 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.440 you're coming up with your target deer, will you like, Man, 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:47.520 that deer is great, I'm want to go hunt them. 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:49.000 But then you start to think like, oh, it's also 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.400 a popular elk hunting area or popular vacation area. Will 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:53.840 you go away from him or will you try to 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.199 hunt him? On those terms of this deer may be 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.159 a little more difficult, but I'm gonna, you know, I'm 0:19:58.200 --> 0:19:59.719 gonna go give it a try, because it's a deer 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:00.480 I want to kill. 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:02.800 To dare I want to kill, and if he's daylight 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:04.280 and I don't care where he's at, I'll go try 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.880 to kill him. But I also have I also try 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.600 to set myself up with multiple options, you know, two 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.080 to five bucks a year that are great bucks, so 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.760 that I can play the game of Okay, there's gonna 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.600 be a ton of elk pressure here but over here, 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.080 and I jump the border in both states, and I 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.480 play the game with the open and closed season dates too, 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:29.679 to try to find where an old buck can have 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.320 a little bit of peace and quiet from humans. And 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:38.320 I'll go target where I believe I'm in the game 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:40.879 with a daylight buck that I want to kill more 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.600 than just wasting my time in an area where yeah, 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.159