1
00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,600
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today,

2
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,320
Speaker 1: we're in the middle of white tail week here at

3
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,079
Speaker 1: me Eaither and we're going to dive deep into one

4
00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,800
Speaker 1: of the most popular hunting topics in North America, hunting

5
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,120
Speaker 1: the white tail deer. Today I brought on a special

6
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 1: guest from North Idaho who pretty much has these big

7
00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,520
Speaker 1: white tails dialed, but it may be a little different

8
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,239
Speaker 1: than the Midwest tactics that you've heard of. Troy Pottinger.

9
00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:33,920
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Shoy.

10
00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,800
Speaker 2: Troy, Hey, Jason, thanks for having me. I appreciate you

11
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:37,959
Speaker 2: guys bringing me on.

12
00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to talk about everything from the fundamentals

13
00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,159
Speaker 1: to some of your advanced tactics if you're willing to

14
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,800
Speaker 1: share them. But how's your season been so far? I

15
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,800
Speaker 1: know you've been out chasing them, you you know, in

16
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: our in our conversation last night, you showed a couple

17
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,520
Speaker 1: of pictures of some big ones you're after. So how's

18
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,520
Speaker 1: it been so far on this this what would be

19
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 1: considered the early season.

20
00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 2: That's been tough. It's a grind always in the early

21
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 2: season when you're hunting in true back country mountain white

22
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,800
Speaker 2: tails like these guys are the bucks I'm hunting, are

23
00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,039
Speaker 2: twenty miles from any agriculture, and they're up at higher elevation,

24
00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:16,080
Speaker 2: so they're true mountain deer. And I hunt northern Idaho

25
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,880
Speaker 2: in eastern Washington early, So I bounce back and forth

26
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,240
Speaker 2: depending upon I pick out a specific target buck in

27
00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,200
Speaker 2: every in each state, and then I try to go

28
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 2: kill that buck. So I would say that it has

29
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,320
Speaker 2: been a it's been it's been pretty tough with the

30
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,399
Speaker 2: heat and just getting the buck I want to kill,

31
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,400
Speaker 2: to get up and move in the daylight without him

32
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,320
Speaker 2: knowing I'm around, Like I got to be real close

33
00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:42,959
Speaker 2: to his bed.

34
00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and we'll jump into that more in the

35
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 1: main discussion, because I'm really curious, you know, when we

36
00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 1: go to you know, to Kansas or wherever we white

37
00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 1: till hunt, you know that distance from bed to feed

38
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,600
Speaker 1: and if you can catch them on the ground, you know,

39
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,720
Speaker 1: in the daylight, versus like what your some of your

40
00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 1: strategy and how that plays out in the mountains and

41
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,200
Speaker 1: how close you have to be. So I'm gonna we're

42
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 1: gonna get to those in a little bit. We're gonna

43
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,920
Speaker 1: start every episode like we normally do with the Pendleton Whiskeys,

44
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 1: Q and A. These are just listener questions that we

45
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,840
Speaker 1: get a lot that I feel are better answered by

46
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,040
Speaker 1: our expert guests. I'm gonna kind of throw three questions

47
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,560
Speaker 1: at you here, Troy, and see what you what you

48
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,320
Speaker 1: think of these and we can take these questions. You

49
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,600
Speaker 1: can email them to us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls

50
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,200
Speaker 1: dot com, or you can send them to them to

51
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,239
Speaker 1: us on social which is how we get the majority

52
00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 1: of these. So, in your opinion, how does moon phase

53
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 1: impact white tailed deer movement and do you as a

54
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,720
Speaker 1: hunter adjust your strategy for it?

55
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 2: Well, it does impact movement, but I don't think it's

56
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:47,960
Speaker 2: as impactful as say weather conditions are wind direction for movement.

57
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 2: And again I'm hunting that old age structure out here,

58
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 2: five six seven year old bucks, so they're kind of

59
00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:02,520
Speaker 2: a different animal within themselves. Do I pay attention to

60
00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,560
Speaker 2: the moon phase? Yeah? Do I think it trumps weather

61
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 2: and fronts and pressure? I don't think so.

62
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,320
Speaker 1: So, so you will pay attention to it? And what

63
00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,919
Speaker 1: does what do you typically see what that moon phase?

64
00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 1: You Let's say we're we're going into a full moon,

65
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 1: which seems you know from from the elk hunting side

66
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,200
Speaker 1: kind of limit movement pushes movement more into the night.

67
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,320
Speaker 1: Is that kind of the same with white tails? Are

68
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 1: you just seeing later movement they're in their beds earlier?

69
00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,840
Speaker 1: What does that typically do to a white tail negatively?

70
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 1: How does it negatively impact the hunt?

71
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,720
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, I grew up hunting elk my whole

72
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,240
Speaker 2: life too, embars and everything up here in North Idaho.

73
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 2: The uh, the big moon at night, the big light

74
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 2: at night always seems to get the deer more active

75
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,560
Speaker 2: at night. In my opinion, I like those dark, dark

76
00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,640
Speaker 2: moon nights. I usually see a little more daylight movement,

77
00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,840
Speaker 2: but it's usually in conjunction with the right weather conditions

78
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,200
Speaker 2: and pressures too.

79
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,160
Speaker 1: Gotcha. Okay, the second question, what are the key differences

80
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,640
Speaker 1: in hunting strategies between like your early season, because I

81
00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 1: know you're hunting, you know, we're we're in early September now,

82
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 1: and then i've you know, seen that you you know,

83
00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,159
Speaker 1: you're killing some giant bucks, you know, into the middle

84
00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:17,880
Speaker 1: of December. At times, it seems like, so how do

85
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,279
Speaker 1: you what are those difference in hunting strategies? How do

86
00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 1: you start to change? Are you hunting the same stands

87
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,080
Speaker 1: from start to finish? Or do you have multiple cams

88
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,560
Speaker 1: out and you're kind of moving down elevation with deer

89
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 1: the rut. You know, kind of if you can, you know,

90
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,200
Speaker 1: give us your your your play on how those strategies change.

91
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,600
Speaker 2: Well, that's a huge topic and you know, just just

92
00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,440
Speaker 2: to be you know, to kind of hit on the

93
00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,040
Speaker 2: you know, the right now type white tael stuff. It's

94
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 2: extremely difficult because they are at the top of their game.

95
00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,520
Speaker 2: They have no distractions. The white tails that I'm hunting

96
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,680
Speaker 2: live in heavy predation. Had a big wolf on my

97
00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,279
Speaker 2: trail camera last night after I checked it after I left,

98
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:06,119
Speaker 2: So right now and I've killed you know, I've killed

99
00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,040
Speaker 2: five big white tails in the month of September August

100
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,560
Speaker 2: thirtieth through September. In my lifetime, I've killed five of

101
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,760
Speaker 2: my best white tails with a boat. But that's five

102
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 2: out of over forty. So this time of the year,

103
00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,839
Speaker 2: they're at the top of the game. They have no distractions.

104
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:31,400
Speaker 2: They do two things. They eat and drink and I'll

105
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,080
Speaker 2: put that together. They eat and drink and they survive

106
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:39,800
Speaker 2: predators and then they dodge. They dodge you know, the

107
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,279
Speaker 2: human intrusion from elk season and the guys that are

108
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,520
Speaker 2: hunting white tails two so this time of the year,

109
00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,599
Speaker 2: I have to be very close to their betting zone.

110
00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,000
Speaker 2: These mountain bucks don't bet in the same bed every

111
00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,279
Speaker 2: day they'd be they turn into wolf shit if they were,

112
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 2: so they move around. I have to stay really tight,

113
00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 2: but a really tight grip the best I can on

114
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,160
Speaker 2: them with some cameras and obviously any type of observation,

115
00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 2: and I put a ton of time into it. But

116
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,480
Speaker 2: if I don't have a tight grip and I don't

117
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,200
Speaker 2: set up close to them, and I have a mobiles,

118
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 2: I have mobile set I have mobile gear setups, and

119
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 2: people that don't know me, I work for Lone Wolf

120
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,279
Speaker 2: Custom Gear and White Tail Addictions and have for years,

121
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,880
Speaker 2: so I have some permanent setups over big scrapes. But

122
00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,320
Speaker 2: I also have my mobile setups to move at any moment,

123
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 2: so I'm always set up or I'm always prepared to

124
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 2: move when I need to. And I have to move

125
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,960
Speaker 2: with those early season bucks where their preferred betting is.

126
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,600
Speaker 2: And if I'm not tight to their betting, I'll never

127
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,200
Speaker 2: find them because in the mountains they have feed in

128
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,720
Speaker 2: every direction and they have a lot of water, so

129
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,359
Speaker 2: it's not like they're traveling to a destination food source

130
00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:50,440
Speaker 2: on an alfalfa field.

131
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, and staying tight to their bed. How do

132
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,440
Speaker 1: you keep track of that, Troy? Are you using cams?

133
00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,320
Speaker 1: Are you just making educated guests? Are assumptions like I

134
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:02,760
Speaker 1: haven't seen him here in a couple of days. I

135
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,400
Speaker 1: think he's moved here, Like, how are you making those?

136
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,799
Speaker 1: How are you determining when you think he's changed beds

137
00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,320
Speaker 1: or where's bed maybe at that time?

138
00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,200
Speaker 2: That's good question. I you know, I'm a huge proponent

139
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,080
Speaker 2: and I've done it for thirty plus years. White tail deer,

140
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:23,239
Speaker 2: all white tail deer, especially these mountain bucks, because there's

141
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,040
Speaker 2: a low deer density of bucks, and does they all

142
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 2: adhere to social community scrapes year around, They check liking

143
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 2: branches and they address scrapes year round. And most people

144
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:44,760
Speaker 2: that don't have an in depth knowledge of white tail

145
00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,840
Speaker 2: behavior probably wouldn't believe that unless they looked at all

146
00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:51,760
Speaker 2: my years and years of videos of them do it

147
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,120
Speaker 2: from year round. So everything that I do is based

148
00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,880
Speaker 2: around big scrapes that are in the mountains and in

149
00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,520
Speaker 2: the early season, it's all about the licking branch and

150
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:05,360
Speaker 2: them communicating. So I position myself in locations where those

151
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,480
Speaker 2: scrapes show me that a mature buck to say I

152
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,080
Speaker 2: want to kill that he's frequenting and if I can

153
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,240
Speaker 2: get him to frequent in in the daylight, I know

154
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,000
Speaker 2: in the early season he's not far from me. So

155
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,119
Speaker 2: then I take a look at the big picture I've walked,

156
00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:22,640
Speaker 2: you know. I do a ton of scouting, a ton

157
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,080
Speaker 2: of walking. I know the country that he's living in,

158
00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 2: and I base his location and his bedding zone on

159
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:37,199
Speaker 2: the most preferred security cover habitat for him that's adjacent

160
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 2: to these big community hubs that I get him on,

161
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 2: and then the wind will always steer him daily in

162
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,120
Speaker 2: the thermals and put him in his bed. So I

163
00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,720
Speaker 2: find these betting zones based on how the wind works

164
00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,679
Speaker 2: in those drainages and how the thermals work with it,

165
00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 2: and it positions those bucks to help them survive all

166
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,240
Speaker 2: the predators and the hunters. You know, I elk do

167
00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,120
Speaker 2: the same thing. Elk use those thermals and hubs and

168
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,400
Speaker 2: winds to position themselves to survive and be you know,

169
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,560
Speaker 2: and to exist into bed so they're never laying in

170
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,680
Speaker 2: the same exact bed. But I'll get a buck that

171
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,880
Speaker 2: will bed in a zone an area, and I'll target

172
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,760
Speaker 2: that area. And then in this early season, I worked

173
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,559
Speaker 2: really hard to get him to show up at my scrapes,

174
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,440
Speaker 2: and the buck I'm trying to kill right now is

175
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,480
Speaker 2: hitting my liking branches and scrapes. He has been since April, gotcha.

176
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,839
Speaker 1: So he's in been in that same area once the

177
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:37,439
Speaker 1: snow melt.

178
00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,160
Speaker 2: He's in that draank. Yeah, he's in the drainage. The

179
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,720
Speaker 2: drainage is big. I've got multiple sites set up for him,

180
00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 2: and he moves around with predation. As soon as the

181
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,400
Speaker 2: predators show up, the lions and the wolves, as soon

182
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,160
Speaker 2: as they show up, he bounces. So it is a

183
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,080
Speaker 2: very difficult task at hand compared to when I hunt

184
00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:01,320
Speaker 2: Oklahoma or Ohio or places where the destination food is there,

185
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,559
Speaker 2: the small wood lot is there, they're congregated. Mountain deer

186
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,680
Speaker 2: are not congregated. They can go one hundred miles in

187
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,280
Speaker 2: any direction they want and survive.

188
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's that's awesome information. And I've always

189
00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,520
Speaker 1: just been curious, you know, on such a big, vast landscape.

190
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 1: But it sounds like you use you know, some licking

191
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 1: branches and some stuff like that where you know he's

192
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,840
Speaker 1: been there and you know he's in the area. That's great.

193
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:25,440
Speaker 1: Tip Troy.

194
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,360
Speaker 2: Well, the the whitetails that I kill usually grow up

195
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,360
Speaker 2: on my scrapes for three to four years, and I

196
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,000
Speaker 2: just condition them there, meaning I watched them grow from

197
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 2: two and a half and I don't hunt them till

198
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,880
Speaker 2: they're five or six. So I play a long game

199
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 2: with big white tails, and if they can survive, then

200
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,400
Speaker 2: I jump into the game with them when they're five

201
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,480
Speaker 2: and six. But I've got years of history with them,

202
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,000
Speaker 2: if you will.

203
00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've got them pattern before you ever really

204
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 1: want to hunt them. Yes, it's to some degree, I mean,

205
00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,680
Speaker 1: and their patterns made. I'm sure their patterns changes. They

206
00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,520
Speaker 1: get a little smarter, but at least there's like a

207
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,000
Speaker 1: base pattern you can go off of.

208
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,560
Speaker 2: And absolutely they tighten everything up as they get older

209
00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,079
Speaker 2: and smarter, they make less mistakes. The buck i'm hunt

210
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 2: right now got shot through the hips last year by

211
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,440
Speaker 2: a rifle hunter. Had a hole in both hips. Can't

212
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,360
Speaker 2: believe he survived it, but he was a four and

213
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 2: a half year old and I left him alone last

214
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,600
Speaker 2: year because I knew he'd be tremendous this year, and

215
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,880
Speaker 2: sure enough, he shows up in the spring with a

216
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 2: hole in both hips, and I was thinking, I can't

217
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,920
Speaker 2: believe this deer survived that. But on the flip side

218
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,439
Speaker 2: of that, that deer acts five years older than he

219
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,199
Speaker 2: did last year at four and a half. He acts

220
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:40,600
Speaker 2: totally different now because of that.

221
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, changed them around that. Yeah, that's interesting, interesting

222
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 1: data point to you know, why is he probably have

223
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:49,480
Speaker 1: been smart as a five year old, but you know,

224
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,200
Speaker 1: he's acting like a seven to eight year old deer

225
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,079
Speaker 1: just you know WHI is the world.

226
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's acting like he's a straight up crackhead in

227
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,160
Speaker 2: April May and juke, like he's on full alert when

228
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,160
Speaker 2: he walks around. On a ton of videos so that

229
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 2: I can actually observe and watch these bucks. So on

230
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,160
Speaker 2: my trail cameras, I run long video on purpose at

231
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,680
Speaker 2: these scrapes and just watching his demeanor and how he

232
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,480
Speaker 2: searches for a trail camera and how he acts different

233
00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,960
Speaker 2: walking in than all the other deer and all the

234
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,200
Speaker 2: other deer mountaineer too, and they're very careful. But he's

235
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,120
Speaker 2: going to be a tough nut to crack. But that's

236
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,319
Speaker 2: what I love. I mean, that's that's where I'm at

237
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 2: in my in my life with white tails is I

238
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:36,000
Speaker 2: like hunting the most mature, smartest, best white tail I

239
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,160
Speaker 2: can find in the mountains because they teach me so much.

240
00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,840
Speaker 2: And the challenge is it's hard for me to even

241
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,520
Speaker 2: explain unless you do it. No.

242
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, you know, it's like the video game

243
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,560
Speaker 1: you played as a kid. It was easy to beat

244
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,280
Speaker 1: it on like the beginner level, but you want to

245
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 1: go beat the game one expert and you know, advance expert,

246
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,319
Speaker 1: Like you want to be able to play the game

247
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,800
Speaker 1: at the highest level and still win. And I respect

248
00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,720
Speaker 1: the heck out of that. And you know, certain hunts

249
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,600
Speaker 1: we do that, and you know, certain hunts we're just

250
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 1: out there trying to put meat in the freezer. But

251
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 1: I I relate to it a little bit, like it's

252
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 1: sometimes fun and I'm you know, as I'm getting older

253
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,320
Speaker 1: and less concerned about notching every tag, it's fun to

254
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 1: play the game, you know, at that higher level for sure.

255
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've been at this a long time.

256
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,560
Speaker 2: I'll be fifty five this year. I absolutely love for

257
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,839
Speaker 2: the young hunters to go get a ton of experience

258
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,880
Speaker 2: and a lot of reps. Get your reps, get your kills,

259
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,120
Speaker 2: don't be so darn picky, enjoy the heck out of it.

260
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,240
Speaker 2: I'm just at a place now where I cherish and

261
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,560
Speaker 2: love that challenge of an old mountain whitetail. And that's

262
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,720
Speaker 2: what that's what trips my trigger at my at where

263
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,640
Speaker 2: I'm at with white tails today.

264
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,800
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. Have you have you seen? I mean, we

265
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 1: always talk about the decline and you know, the good

266
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,360
Speaker 1: old days. Have you have those mountain white tails had

267
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,480
Speaker 1: the nosedive that that, you know, all the other ungulates

268
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,080
Speaker 1: around here have have shown. Are you seeing less and

269
00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,959
Speaker 1: less big ones? Is it tougher and tougher to dig

270
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,320
Speaker 1: an old krusty you know, buck out of the mountains

271
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,560
Speaker 1: than it was twenty years ago?

272
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely? You know. I cut my teeth on mountain white

273
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,880
Speaker 2: tails in the eighties. And if I you know, everybody

274
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,080
Speaker 2: can say this, but if I knew back then what

275
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,440
Speaker 2: I know now, I would have felt like I was

276
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,960
Speaker 2: in Iowa in the eighties. I mean, we had low

277
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:23,240
Speaker 2: human population up here in North Idaho. We had nobody

278
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,160
Speaker 2: bowl hunting mountain white tails and getting on them and

279
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,040
Speaker 2: pushing them. I just was young and learning about it.

280
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 2: Nobody was doing it, and I when I dove into

281
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,800
Speaker 2: it when I was young. I actually got laughed at

282
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,160
Speaker 2: by the local boys in Saint Mary's, Idaho, behind the scenes,

283
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,120
Speaker 2: like you're crazy, You're gonna go hunt deer with a

284
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 2: bow in the mountains or you kidding? And that was

285
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,360
Speaker 2: always my motivation. I always wanted to. I wanted to hunt.

286
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 2: I didn't want to I didn't want to just kill

287
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 2: and shoot stuff. I wanted to, like get intimate with

288
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:57,640
Speaker 2: proximity of killing an old whitetail, fooling him at say,

289
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,400
Speaker 2: under twenty yards with a bow and arrow. So I

290
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:05,480
Speaker 2: dove into that young And looking back now, the numbers

291
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,000
Speaker 2: of mature bucks back then compared to when they opened

292
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 2: up a two bucks season in North Idaho and six

293
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,360
Speaker 2: or five and the population boom into Idaho and everybody's

294
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 2: a hunter now and every here at the bottom line

295
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,480
Speaker 2: is it's a numbers game. All tons of young bucks

296
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,360
Speaker 2: get killed now we have we sell out all of

297
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 2: our tags every year. People come from all over out

298
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,720
Speaker 2: of state to hunt. And it's fine, I mean, it

299
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 2: is what it is. We're we're killing a lot more

300
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 2: younger deer now than when I was growing up, because

301
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,600
Speaker 2: there just sherely wasn't the amount of hunters hunting the

302
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 2: younger deer, if you will, so, so the age structure

303
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 2: is totally changed. And yeah, i'd say I work compared

304
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,160
Speaker 2: to finding a mature buck, say in the eighties and nineties,

305
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,400
Speaker 2: I say I put in one hundred percent. I put

306
00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 2: in ten times more work and travel ten times the distance,

307
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,320
Speaker 2: says in the And I'm hunting public land for service

308
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,280
Speaker 2: minimum of multiple of ten times the distances and travel

309
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,040
Speaker 2: and effort to find an old mature buck.

310
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:16,239
Speaker 1: Yes, now that's you know, you'd almost I guess predators

311
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,000
Speaker 1: and hunting pressure and everything you just mentioned. You think

312
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 1: there might be some that are somewhat immune to the

313
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 1: changes because they are tough to find, tough to see.

314
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 1: But it sounds like, you know, it's still still affecting them.

315
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,920
Speaker 1: And I bet you you wish you knew it. You

316
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, thirty years ago, you wish you knew what

317
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,040
Speaker 1: you know now when you were back there in those

318
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,480
Speaker 1: heydays and had that same knowledge base.

319
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 2: I used to be able to go into any drainage

320
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,240
Speaker 2: in the late eighties, early nineties and find a mature buck,

321
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 2: find a five year old. You can't do it now.

322
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,160
Speaker 2: And of course you know we're not talking. We haven't

323
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,360
Speaker 2: even talked about the predators, the wolves. I hunt Washington

324
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 2: and Idaho, and I've lived through all the years of

325
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 2: the wolf introduction in both states, seen it all. The

326
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,880
Speaker 2: impact on the white tails the most in the elk

327
00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:59,280
Speaker 2: is as we all know, and I don't want to

328
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 2: go down that rabbit hole and here has definitely added

329
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,400
Speaker 2: a ton of pressure and killing to the younger deer

330
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:05,120
Speaker 2: in the elk.

331
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's drastic, you know, everywhere. And

332
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 1: you know, we've got a whole different issue over here.

333
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 1: But wolves are starting to you know, on the east

334
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 1: side of Washington for sure, and then now we've got

335
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,199
Speaker 1: like hoof raw on the west side, and it's just

336
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, these these uh you know, sun unmountable. Un

337
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 1: there's just that the animals don't have a chance right

338
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,160
Speaker 1: now with the hoof rock, with wolves, with increased predators

339
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 1: are taking away our bear seasons are cougar seasons, and

340
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,680
Speaker 1: like you said, you don't want to go down down

341
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,960
Speaker 1: those rabbit holes. But there's a lot working against us

342
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:36,720
Speaker 1: right now. It seems like, hey.

343
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,960
Speaker 2: Man, I'm right, I'm exact. I mean, couldn't agree more.

344
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,280
Speaker 2: We're saying the same thing. Yep.

345
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So my last question and then we'll jump into

346
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,400
Speaker 1: our conversation. You know, you're up in the high mountains,

347
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 1: there are elk hunters running around, maybe other deer hunters.

348
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,000
Speaker 1: How does pressure from other hunters affect your deer behavior

349
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,800
Speaker 1: and how have you had to adapt or how do

350
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,639
Speaker 1: you deal with if your deer is in a pressured area?

351
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? Why tell him after if he gets pressured by

352
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,240
Speaker 2: a human, He's been in the game a long time,

353
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 2: he understands it, he moves, he adjusts, and he has

354
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,200
Speaker 2: the freedom. He has the freedom to move in vast

355
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,720
Speaker 2: country to wherever he wants to. I've had multiple years

356
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 2: where I've killed a buck five miles away on a map,

357
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,880
Speaker 2: three to five miles away on a map from where

358
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 2: I was hunt even early season. It just happens a lot.

359
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 2: And to counter that, I put a lot of work

360
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 2: into finding those hard to find. But every now and

361
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:50,640
Speaker 2: then quiet pocket areas, if you will. That usually equates

362
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,200
Speaker 2: to two things or either right drive right by areas

363
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 2: in the mountains or hard hard work to get to,

364
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,960
Speaker 2: and most guys won't expend the effort to get there

365
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,880
Speaker 2: to find those pockets and genetic pools of bucks that

366
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 2: aren't getting disturbed quite as much by humans. They're still

367
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,120
Speaker 2: getting all the predator pressure and all the predators. No matter,

368
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 2: I can't do anything about the predators. But as far

369
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,239
Speaker 2: as getting away from humans, I just try to go

370
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,359
Speaker 2: that extra mile all the time. And I'm willing to

371
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 2: do what I don't think most people are willing to

372
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 2: do for a white tail, to go try to hunt him,

373
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 2: and you know, great distances, long drives, long hikes, just

374
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,560
Speaker 2: everything that I can do to find a little bit

375
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,880
Speaker 2: of peace and quiet. Yes in the mountains.

376
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you'll you will move away from that heavily

377
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 1: pressured areas. Or as you're setting your season up and

378
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,440
Speaker 1: you're coming up with your target deer, will you like, Man,

379
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 1: that deer is great, I'm want to go hunt them.

380
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: But then you start to think like, oh, it's also

381
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,400
Speaker 1: a popular elk hunting area or popular vacation area. Will

382
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 1: you go away from him or will you try to

383
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,199
Speaker 1: hunt him? On those terms of this deer may be

384
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,159
Speaker 1: a little more difficult, but I'm gonna, you know, I'm

385
00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,719
Speaker 1: gonna go give it a try, because it's a deer

386
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:00,480
Speaker 1: I want to kill.

387
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 2: To dare I want to kill, and if he's daylight

388
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 2: and I don't care where he's at, I'll go try

389
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,880
Speaker 2: to kill him. But I also have I also try

390
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 2: to set myself up with multiple options, you know, two

391
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 2: to five bucks a year that are great bucks, so

392
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 2: that I can play the game of Okay, there's gonna

393
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 2: be a ton of elk pressure here but over here,

394
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 2: and I jump the border in both states, and I

395
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 2: play the game with the open and closed season dates too,

396
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,679
Speaker 2: to try to find where an old buck can have

397
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 2: a little bit of peace and quiet from humans. And

398
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 2: I'll go target where I believe I'm in the game

399
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 2: with a daylight buck that I want to kill more

400
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 2: than just wasting my time in an area where yeah,

401
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,159
Speaker 2: my buck's on camera, but he's only at night and

402
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 2: there's a lot of guys out cutting the ridges an area, Yeah,

403
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 2: I'll bounce. But if that old buck's daylight and then

404
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,159
Speaker 2: showing me he's killable, I don't care where he's at,

405
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 2: I'll hunting.

406
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. So thanks Troy for answering those questions from our listeners.

407
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,160
Speaker 1: Once again, you have questions for me or my guests,

408
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 1: email them to us at CTD at Phelpsgame Calls dot

409
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,920
Speaker 1: com or send us a message on social media and

410
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: we'll do our best to get them on here. So

411
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 1: now I'm gonna kind of jump into to our conversation

412
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 1: some of the questions I maybe have for you, and

413
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're an open book Troy or

414
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: some of these things you might want to keep close

415
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 1: to your chest, but uh, let's kind of kick things

416
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: off with the basics for those new to white tail hunting,

417
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: which I'm fairly new to white to hunting, and don't

418
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: hate me for this. I always joked with everybody, you know,

419
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,199
Speaker 1: when you see Midwest white till hunting, I'm like, I'm

420
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 1: gonna do that when I'm seventy, when I can't meal

421
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: your hunt, when I can't elk hunt anymore, I'm gonna

422
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: go white tail hunt. You're obviously doing it in the

423
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: same dang places that I'm el cutting, So, uh, it's

424
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: not as easy as I made it sound in my

425
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: uh you know, white tail hunt when I'm old. But

426
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 1: you know, understanding the behavior of white tail deer is

427
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 1: is key. The deer year hunting are obviously different than

428
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: the ones in the Midwest. You you probably have a

429
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: lot of you know, contrasting but also probably a lot

430
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: of similarities. You know, the old white tail bucks and

431
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 1: what they do. But in the mountains, what if you're

432
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: looking at an area and maybe you're just getting started,

433
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: you don't even have an area. What are some things

434
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 1: you look for when it comes to finding white tail?

435
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: Is it just historically good areas? Is it certain mountain characteristics?

436
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 1: Is it just areas that have white tails and you

437
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: got to go up and find them.

438
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a lot, but yeah, to break that down, yep.

439
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 2: The thing about a mountain white tail is if I

440
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 2: took somebody, if somebody spent one week with me one week,

441
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 2: that doesn't do it like I do it. I take

442
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 2: any elk counter with me. I'll take anybody. I've had

443
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 2: triathletes come with me, and they're shocked at the amount

444
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: of work it takes to hunt a white tail and

445
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 2: to kill to successfully get them killed in the mountains,

446
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 2: because you're not hunting flat ground. It is. It is

447
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 2: a It is an endeavor, just like when I go

448
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 2: kill a bull elk, but it's a daily endeavor. And

449
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 2: white tails don't talk like they don't give me the

450
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 2: just or they don't give me the they don't give

451
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 2: me that vocal. So it's like a ninja type game

452
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 2: with them and the you know, I start everything biologically.

453
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 2: I'm a science guy. Uh my background's kinesiology and biology.

454
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,239
Speaker 2: Everything I do is based on sound science. So I

455
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 2: look at habitat. I look for the most conducive habitat

456
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 2: out there for feed, security, cover, and the huge thing

457
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 2: is is win and and thermals. You have you find.

458
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 2: I find the best white tails in the mountains of

459
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 2: the entire Pacific Northwest. We're talking western Montana to eastern Washington,

460
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 2: all the above through Northido. You always find the best

461
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 2: survivor and and the oldest bucks in places that give

462
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: them everything they need to survive all their obstacles. And

463
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 2: it starts with habitat quality, security cover, water, feed and

464
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 2: wind advantage, thermal and wind mixing advantages to keep them

465
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: alive from the mountain lions and the wolves. So I

466
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 2: look at this big picture, this thirty thousand foot view,

467
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 2: and I'll start with mapping, but I gotta put a

468
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 2: ton of boots on the ground to see it in person.

469
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it all, lay it all out, and

470
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: when I get in that right habitat and those those

471
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 2: slopes those slopes that protect a big buck based on

472
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 2: the predominant prevailing winds and thermals. That's where you'll find

473
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 2: you because the wind and the slopes and the security

474
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 2: cover and the terrain and the difficulty they keep him

475
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 2: alive and he knows it, and that's where he'll He'll

476
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: gravitate to those places as he gets older, especially up

477
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: in elevation, to stay alive. So it's this huge equation,

478
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: if you will, that I put all together. I got

479
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: to get all the pieces of the puzzle together, and

480
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: then I break those areas down like you wouldn't believe.

481
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'll grid for days in area and just grid,

482
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 2: you know, two miles this way, two miles back, all

483
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: day long, every twenty yards. Now, who's going to do that?

484
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: Not many people. But I break that sign down in

485
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: the off season and that country down in the off season.

486
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: And then I double back and hunt those big community

487
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 2: scrapes that I find or build. I build incredible mock scrapes,

488
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: and I don't I'm not trying to toot my horn,

489
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: but I've been at this scrape game for thirty plus

490
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 2: years and it's unbelievable where I can say I can

491
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: pull a big buck two hundred yards from where I

492
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: can't really hunt him. I can pull him over to

493
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: a bench or ridge and kill him there. So there's

494
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: a lot there. I don't know if I explain that

495
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 2: well enough, but it all starts with habitat and win

496
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 2: habitat and wind in security cover.

497
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: No, that was that was exactly. I know I gave

498
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: you a pretty loaded question, but that was exactly like

499
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: how do you go in? And now I've got a

500
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: question on that because you know we're out in the Midwest.

501
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: You hear of some of the Midwest white tail, you know, professionals,

502
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,719
Speaker 1: the guys that do it and do it well. They

503
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: talk about maybe never getting into their betting area. When

504
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: you're going to explore an area, are you willing to

505
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: put a little more cent on the ground, push a

506
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: little bit more? Is like finding finding that sign worth

507
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: maybe getting into his betting area and pushing through there

508
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: at least once or twice, versus just staying out of

509
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: there forever, Like how do you balance that? You know,

510
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: not pushing the year, but you got to kind of

511
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: figure out his home.

512
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: Well outside of season up until about middle of July.

513
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 2: I'll go anywhere anywhere, but because I open August thirtieth. Yeah,

514
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 2: I'm not going to play it foolish either and pound

515
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 2: his betting area that I believe I might kill him

516
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: August thirtieth and no velvet. I'm going to tread lighter then,

517
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: But I do all the homework ahead of time. If

518
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 2: I'm struggling, and if it's in season and things just

519
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: aren't working, I'll get aggressive sometimes and go for a

520
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: midday walk and I don't care where I go. Sometimes

521
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: you have to to least let you know, holy hell,

522
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: he's not even around here. Or yep, your assumption was

523
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 2: right up in the top of that drainage, and he

524
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,959
Speaker 2: is up here. So yes, it's a situational thing, Jason,

525
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 2: to where you've got to make those calls, and it's

526
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 2: an instinctual thing for me based on forty years a

527
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: hunt white tails, that is. You know, I think I'm

528
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 2: better at it now than I used to be. But

529
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: I do a little bit of both. But outside of season, Jason,

530
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: I will go anywhere anywhere to figure him out, and

531
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: I'll look at signed from the rut, say in April,

532
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: when the snow comes off and all that rut sign

533
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 2: is still there. When I find those big sheds late

534
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: or early. I see that a buck, say sheds in

535
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 2: December or early January. That's a dead giveaway. So that's

536
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: where he was hiding out. Now, if he packs his

537
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: antlers into February March, it's not a dead giveaway because

538
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: he's somewhere else due to the snow.

539
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: Yep, yeap, gotcha. I was just always I'm always curious

540
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: because I'm sti learning, like as I'm two years into

541
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: whitetail and i'm very you know, scientific analytical, like you know,

542
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: my engineering background doesn't let me do it any differently.

543
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: But you know, you hear a lot of these guys

544
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: say they'll go into the bedding area one time in February,

545
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: change batteries and cameras, shed hunting, and they'll never go

546
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: back in there again, almost like a sanctuary. And when

547
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: you're in the mountains, you just don't have that liberty

548
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: to just not ever go in there. You have to

549
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: go in there figured it out to ever have a

550
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: chance at killing him. It sounds like.

551
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,719
Speaker 2: Mountain whitetails move way too much. Predators bump them all

552
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: the time. You're never going to be in the game

553
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: with a mountain whitetail if you're not if you don't

554
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 2: have a tight grip on him, and tight grip means

555
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: you actually know where the hell he is that week,

556
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 2: because he might be a mile or two away the

557
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 2: next week. Now, that takes an exorbitant amount of effort

558
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 2: on an old whitetail, and it is it's a game

559
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: of getting your ass kicked all the time. All I

560
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: have had happened to me this season so far is

561
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: getting my ass kicked by weather, by predators, by wolves

562
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: eleven days into the season or twelve thirteen days into

563
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: the season. Right now, you know, my son. I text

564
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: my son this morning driving down to work from where

565
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: my hunting camp is, and he goes, you can't catch

566
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: a break, you know, And then we both laugh because

567
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 2: he knows mountain white tails. He's setting over in Bozeman

568
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: playing college football and hunting alfalfa fields, and he just

569
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: you know, we know, we get it. He's he's got

570
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: beautiful bucks on camera daily in the daylight. His girlfriend

571
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: already killed a big five by five. He put her

572
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: on it her first day out. And he gets it though,

573
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: because he spent his whole life hunting mountains with me.

574
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: It's just a totally different game. Yep, yep, and just

575
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 2: a different game.

576
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. And you so are you being more mobile? Like

577
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: are you using the tree saddles? Are you entries or

578
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: are you doing it on the ground? Like what's your setup?

579
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: And when you have to move a mile away? Like

580
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: do you have to go tear a stand down or

581
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: are you bringing a different stand up the mountain with you?

582
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: Mon Wolf custom gear mobile tree stands. This thing weighs

583
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: seven pounds.

584
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: Gotcha? So you're just you're hiking to where you need

585
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: to set up.

586
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: I move, I move anywhere I need to. I have permanence.

587
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: I have permanence over big community scrapes that produce annually.

588
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: And then you jump in my mobile, set up my

589
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: seven pounds, set up four sticks. I go anywhere I

590
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: need to move if I need to. And then when

591
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: I go when I go to the Midwest and hunt

592
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: farm country and crop destination country, all I hunt out

593
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: of is a mobile setup. So I'm not a saddle

594
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: guy because I like a stand, but my stuff's so light.

595
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: I can go anywhere and hunt. I can be in

596
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: a tree anywhere in five minutes.

597
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: Gotcha. Yeah, I was. I was kind of curious on

598
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: that it was your scouting area. Let's say you've got

599
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: a target buck. You know, mountain wind is maybe a

600
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: little bit different than like the midwest prevailing wind when

601
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: it comes to white How are you starting to think

602
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: about that? Are you going, you know, up the mountain

603
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: in the morning. Are you thinking about your thermal switching

604
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: you know later in the day like you had mentioned already,

605
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: you know ridges and passes, Like, how are you trying

606
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: to make sure this scene doesn't wind you before you

607
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: before you kill it? Like what's your typical setup, your

608
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: daily you know in egress and you know in and out?

609
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: What's that all look like?

610
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 2: Well? I map all the wind and the thermals out

611
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: in my head first based on looking at them at.

612
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: But I can map the wind in thermals by looking

613
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: at them at and kind of know how a west, south,

614
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: or north or an east wind's gonna work, so that

615
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 2: all gets mapped out first in my mind. I have

616
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: a great in depth understanding the mountain thermals and how

617
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: they like to move differently on a south slope versus

618
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 2: a north slope, versus a n ees slope versus the

619
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: west slope. Put all that into my mind when I

620
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: go into a spot and then I let the wind.

621
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: I make sure the wind walks me into places, so

622
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: I have the wind walk me in and help protect me.

623
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 2: And a lot of times in this country, Jason, what

624
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: you end up doing is a lot of my really

625
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: high quality setups where I kill from a lot of

626
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: them have an east entrance, which anybody that understands the

627
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: west and where we get most of our wins from.

628
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: I'm usually coming from some sort of an east type

629
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: direction because I get a lot of south and west

630
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: winds and north winds. I don't get a lot of

631
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: easterly winds. Now. I have some spots set up for

632
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: an east wind too, But I'm very conscious of the

633
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: morning and evening evening thermal switches. And that's all dictated

634
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 2: by a temperature difference, by slope difference. You know, if

635
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: you only have a ten degree temperature swing, you're not

636
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: getting a huge thermal If you have a forty degree

637
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: temperature swing, you're getting a huge thermal push that day.

638
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: So all of that goes into the equation and that

639
00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: helps steer me into where I want to set up. Now,

640
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: that could mean where I want to set up a

641
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: permanent setup over a big scrape or a mock that

642
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: I build, or if I'm being mobile and still just

643
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: wanting to set up one hundred percent, everything's based on

644
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: the wind everywhere I go. I will not hunt an

645
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: old mature buck on a bad wind. As a matter

646
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: of fact, I will get out of my stand and

647
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 2: pull it down and leave, or get out of a

648
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: permanent and leave. If the wind starts to hurt me

649
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 2: and is blowing in the direction that I believe he's betting,

650
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 2: I leave. Yeah, And I'm very disciplined about that.

651
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: So your approach is to the to the wind and

652
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: your stands of the wind. You know, we've always talked

653
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: about approaches like don't give him any wind, don't let

654
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: them smell your trails where you think they're coming from,

655
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: none of that. But how how much wind are you

656
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: willing to give a big mature white tail? And when

657
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: I say give him win, like don't let him smell you,

658
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: but you will what you may give him ninety degrees,

659
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty degrees, Like how much you're willing

660
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: to risk it? Because some people say those big mature

661
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: deer aren't going to move unless they've got some advantage

662
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: or some idea.

663
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, all my big bucks that I kill, they have

664
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 2: almost they almost have ninety percent of the wind. Here's

665
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: how I'm killing them. I'm usually killing them where my

666
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 2: wind misses their entrance travel route to me by twenty

667
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: yards at most, or fifteen yards. I rarely kill a

668
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: big buck when the wind's blowing in my face. So

669
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 2: the wind I'm always killing on an edge. Wind always

670
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 2: just off the edge of what he thinks, he thinks

671
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: he's safe. He doesn't pick me up because the wind

672
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 2: is I mean, it's splitting hairs and you get beat

673
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 2: because of it. But I also see him in the

674
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 2: daylight more often because I am I am dissecting that

675
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 2: wind and just getting off to the edge of that

676
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: wind of his, yes, or.

677
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: Or using maybe the little bit of the elevation of energy,

678
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: got just to kind of blow over him for a second,

679
00:34:59,000 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: or whatever you need to.

680
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: But like you said, thermal a thermal rise, Yes, exactly.

681
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: And it's when I say wind for your listeners, I

682
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: mean thermal wind prevailing mixes all the time, the mix

683
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: of it. I'm always playing that mix.

684
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: Yep. No, I'm with you and a lot of people,

685
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, they have el kind of with me think

686
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: I'm crazy because I'll you know, blow my wind puffer

687
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 1: and we'll go in a direction. I'm like, a big

688
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: bull is not going to just They will at times,

689
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: but the majority of bulls we kill and call in,

690
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: I'm only giving them, you know, like you said, twenty

691
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: thirty forty degrees of wind. Otherwise they've got me nailed.

692
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: And that's what we're going to kill them. And you

693
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: have to shoot them before they cross that imaginary line.

694
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: Yep elk. Cunning for me has always been enjoyable because

695
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: I can move on the ground on the wind. And

696
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 2: if there's one thing that I feel like I have

697
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 2: an exceptional understanding of is how the wind works in

698
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: the mountains, because that's all you know, four decades of

699
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 2: hunting it, and you do even then big then big

700
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 2: bulls all day and all the all the smart mature

701
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: animals don't care for a ball or a female. Uh

702
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: you know, all the mature animals, they're alive because they've

703
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: learned to use that wind, especially in the tight quarters

704
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: we hunt out here. It's tight, we're not I'm not

705
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: hardly glassing anything because I can't.

706
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: It's so fair yep yep Okay, let's switch directions a

707
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: little bit. We we touched on you know, these this

708
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: early season, you know, betting the feeding routine, trying to

709
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: get them out of their bed in time, on their

710
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: feet in the daylight. Let's say we're moving into you know,

711
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: late October into November, and we're starting to hunt these deer,

712
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, and there there's probably different in between, you

713
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: know that that mid October. But let's say we're moving

714
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: through the seasons. How does your strategy change as we

715
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: start to get towards this rut and they may start to,

716
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: you know, change their their mind is not just on

717
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: food and security now it's food security, and you know

718
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: the rut the doze.

719
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: Well, the thing that people leave out and we left

720
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: out there is they always socially communicate on linking branches

721
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 2: and scrapes through the whole season, through the spring, through

722
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: the summer, through the winter. When they migrate out and

723
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: come back, they go straight to the scrapes right away.

724
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: So I always have one common denominator always everywhere I go,

725
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 2: doesn't matter if I'm in Ohio, Idaho, Washington, Alberta, Oklahoma,

726
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, North Dakota. I always have a scrape involved

727
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: because that scent is like guys that are really good

728
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 2: trappers will get this scent is incredibly powerful if you're

729
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: a trapper and you know it. I trap big mountain

730
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: white tails on a scrape. So my one common denominator

731
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 2: is I always have a scrape working for me on

732
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: that buck. And then as I progress into October and November,

733
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: the biggest moves that I make on my specific dear

734
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: I'm trying to kill are going to be in conjunction

735
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: with the dough family groups that he wants to serve

736
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 2: and that he's showed me in the past that he

737
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: services before I decide to hunting. So a lot of

738
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: times what I end up doing Jason is moving not

739
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 2: a long ways away from his summer betting hermit hideout,

740
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 2: but I usually end up moving a little bit down

741
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 2: in elevation to where the dough family groups are spending

742
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: more time, and then I hunt those big white tails

743
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 2: all the way into December on those big community scrapes

744
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 2: where there's more does to keep it simple?

745
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: Gotcha? That makes a ton of sense.

746
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's simple science, simple science, Yes, sir.

747
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: So you're using that licking branch or that scrape is Basically,

748
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: it's it's the it's the communal way of that deer

749
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: knowing what other deer in the area. And you're pretty

750
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: convinced that the majority, if not all, the deer in

751
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: that area are going to go visit that to to

752
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: you know, let other deer know they're there or they're

753
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: in that that basin or in that drainage.

754
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not just convinced. I have decades of proof

755
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 2: of it since I started running video. So those old

756
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,919
Speaker 2: bucks have spent so much time on those scrapes because

757
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 2: it's like you and I being on social media, this

758
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 2: is how we communicate. A scrape is where they leave

759
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 2: their identity to let every deer in the mountains know.

760
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: And it doesn't matter where you hunt white tails, white

761
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: tails or white tails, they do it everywhere. That scrape

762
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 2: is that common denominator that you can hunt a deer

763
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 2: over any in any state legally, you can hunt a

764
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 2: scrape always. And what ends up happening with our mountain

765
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 2: white tails and with white tails everywhere I go is

766
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: when that rut gets closer, the scrapes that are closer

767
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 2: to the dough family groups, that the dough family groups

768
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: adhere to more and that the doughs check more. Of course,

769
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 2: the big bucks start checking those more frequently, so I

770
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: might leave a scrape that he was checking, say in

771
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 2: September more often because he's moved down onto three dough

772
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: family groups on a big scrape that he's checked for

773
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 2: five years or for four years ahead of me.

774
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: Yes, gotcha, gotcha. That's the great information toy. Like I say,

775
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: some of this stuff is over my head. But when

776
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: you when you talk about it, it all makes sense. Just

777
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,959
Speaker 1: as a hunter, it's like, oh, that that makes sense,

778
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: and that's your you know, whether it's you know, for elk,

779
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: we really don't have that, you know, calm. You may

780
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: have an idea, but like you know, we check wallows,

781
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: we check you know, passes in the ridge lines, but

782
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: we don't have that like scrape to go to. So

783
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: it's there's a little bit more of the unknown when

784
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,479
Speaker 1: it comes to Elk versus it sounds like on white tail,

785
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: it's like that is the key.

786
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think early season because the elkcret's way

787
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: earlier the white tails that wallow is the closest thing

788
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 2: to a scrape because bulls piss all over at them,

789
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: they leave a lot of sand and moose scrape. All

790
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 2: of our ungulates scraped a wallow would be an elk scrape,

791
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: and guys have had a lot of luck over the

792
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: years if you're patients and think the thing about elk

793
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 2: cut is patients over a wallow can be hard for

794
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 2: a lot of guys. I'm a super patient hunter when

795
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: it comes to putting the time in with a big buck,

796
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: so that helps me because I'll be patient with him.

797
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of patients, how many deer day do you

798
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: see on a typical mountain hunt when you're targeting a

799
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: specific big buck.

800
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 2: This time of the year. Some this this time of

801
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: the year, sometimes I don't see a deer because the

802
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: only deer I'm going to see is either him or nothing.

803
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: That's kind of what I think during the Yeah, and

804
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 2: like yesterday I saw three deer on a two hour set,

805
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: which I saw three dose, but then I checked my camera.

806
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 2: The wolves were in the night before. My buck's nowhere

807
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: to be around that, so I'm gonna have to go

808
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 2: find him in a different spot.

809
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So I have to ask you why I got you?

810
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: Do you? You know, what's your approach to calling real

811
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: quickly sent control and the decoying. I know you got

812
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 1: to get out. You're going to look for some white

813
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: tails up in Alberta. So I'm just curious calling sent control,

814
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: decoying and how you use those or if you use

815
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:57,439
Speaker 1: them at all.

816
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 2: Calling. I'll just work through your list very minimal because

817
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: I'm trying not to tip off a five or six

818
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 2: year old deer. Now. People that are getting into this

819
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: and wanting to kill a deer and super happy with

820
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: any buck, you know, grunting social or rattling, not overdoing it.

821
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: That's what I did years ago. And you're going to

822
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 2: get that age structure to younger. You're going to have

823
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 2: more opportunities on younger age structure deer. I have nothing

824
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: against it, but I have learned over the years of

825
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: my old bucks they're pretty privy to what's going on now.

826
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 2: The call my go to call is a snort wheeze.

827
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 2: On any big buck, I'll snort wheeze him any time

828
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 2: of the year, and he'll use he come to me,

829
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: he'll useally check me out because he's such a dominant deer.

830
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 2: So snort wheeze. I don't ever blindly snort wheeze. I

831
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: don't ever blindly rattle, but I will use that stuff

832
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: even early season a tickle if a buck gets by

833
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 2: me and I want to try to bring him back

834
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 2: during the rut. I'm not a blind hardly Ever, the

835
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 2: safest call there is in the white tail rut that

836
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 2: will pull a deer and never spooky, is a soft

837
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: social dough grunt. You'll never hurt yourself with that hunting bucks,

838
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 2: and it's not a threatening call to any deer. So

839
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 2: my calling, I would say, is minimal, but it's tactical

840
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,399
Speaker 2: and strategic, okay. And then in SCNC control, I get

841
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: as clean as I can. My clothes never come inside.

842
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: They always hang outside. I believe the earth cleans your

843
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 2: clothes better than anything. I try to stay away from

844
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 2: toats and stuff with moisture, so I'll just throw my

845
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,479
Speaker 2: clothes in a open garbage bay has some air coming

846
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 2: in and out of it, or it doesn't seal any

847
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 2: moisture in. And then I always get dressed outside of

848
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: my truck, go hunt, come back, Strip my clothes off

849
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 2: real quick, throw them in that bag, take them back,

850
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,479
Speaker 2: hang them outside. They never come in a house. They're

851
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: really never allowed. Even in the front of my pickup.

852
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 2: They're in that garbage contractor's bag that's sent free, but

853
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 2: it has some air breathing into it if you will.

854
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 2: So that's and I use baking soda only to wash

855
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 2: my clothes in I've done that for decades. It works

856
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 2: amazing my personal scent control. I'm playing edge Winds, so

857
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 2: I do use a vanishing a hunter from buck Fever

858
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 2: synthetics that I've used for almost thirty years. And all

859
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do there is minimize my human odor

860
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 2: because I want a whitetail buck. If he does pick

861
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 2: me up and come in down wind to me, I

862
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: want my scent molecular cone to seem to him like

863
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: I was there a day earlier, or maybe I'm four

864
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 2: or five hundred yards away. For example, you walk by

865
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 2: a skunk at twenty yards versus walking by a skunk

866
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: at four hundred yards, You're going to react different as

867
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 2: a human based on the concentration of molecules of negative scent.

868
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 2: So I do play that game a little, but I

869
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: don't think you can ever be one hundred percent sent free.

870
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: I want to be clear on that.

871
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, gotcha, Okay, what was the third one? And decoys?

872
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: And I think I know the answer high mountain stuff.

873
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: You're not probably packing big giants in there, but I'm

874
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 1: curious to see. Yeah.

875
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: Now, the best decoy in the world is a live

876
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 2: though the best decoy or a young buck that an

877
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 2: old buck comes in and season is scrape and he

878
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: runs off. So my goal is to have live decoys,

879
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 2: live deer in my scrapes daily in the daylight.

880
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 1: Yep, all right, Well, out of respect your time, Troy,

881
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you jumping on. I know you got

882
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: to get up to Alberta to do some scouting for

883
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: a later hunt, but how can people follow along with

884
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: more of your adventures or find out more about you

885
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: and what you got going on.

886
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: First of all, Jason, thanks for having me. Glad we

887
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 2: got to sneak this in the easiest way to get

888
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 2: a hold of me, guys is my Instagram is where

889
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 2: I talk hunting. I kind of use my Facebook for

890
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 2: family stuff anyway. All that to say, my Instagram handle

891
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:01,720
Speaker 2: is m t and Underscore Man, so Mount Man thirty

892
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 2: three and that's just a name that was kind of

893
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 2: given to me my my buddies from the white Tail

894
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: Dixters team because I hunt my mount white Tails and

895
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 2: I have my whole.

896
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: Life, gotcha? Well, uh no, I appreciate it. Hopefully you

897
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: catch up to that big giant buck that you shared

898
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: with me last night and the good luck scouting in Alberta,

899
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: and I'm sure we'll see a big buck on the ground.

900
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: Like I say, you're obviously a wealth of knowledge. I

901
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: wish we could have talked for hours, but you're you're busy,

902
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: and maybe we'll u we'll bring you back around on

903
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: the on the show for for episode two here coming up.

904
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 2: Let's do it, Jason. It's a it's a pleasure to

905
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 2: get a meet you. I've seen a lot of your

906
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 2: stuff on social media. Good luck to you this season.

907
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: Yep, you too, Troy.

908
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 3: Take care, have a good one

909
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: This