WEBVTT - Steven Van Zandt 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:04.560 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.720 Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan Runtag, but 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:10.800 enough about me. My guest today is known as the 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.520 Concieri of rock and roll, and the title is well 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.680 earned if he had to pick. He's perhaps best known 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.000 for his role in the E Street Band, where he 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:23.279 served as guitarist, arranger, occasional co producer and full time 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.640 confidant and right hand manned it was old buddy Bruce Springsteen. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:31.200 His departure from the group in just before the astronomical 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.680 success of the Born in the Usa album sent them 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.839 stratospheric struck many his career suicide. But that's when the 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:42.240 adventure really began. He experienced a political awakening and set 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.720 his sights on dismantling apartheid. To say, he took a 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.640 hands on role, as putting it mildly, he risked his 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:52.000 life meeting with activists on their home turf illegally sneaking 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:54.760 into a South African township hidden under a blanket in 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.240 the backseat of a car. He organized a mind boggling 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.000 coalition of musicians under the name him Artists United Against Apartheid, 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.720 and the resulting single Sun City was a crucial step 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.480 towards ending the humanitarian atrocities in South Africa and freeing 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.480 Nelson Mandela. When he wasn't fighting global injustice, he was 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.680 busy recording a string of critically acclaimed albums with and 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.279 without his new group, the eminently Funky Disciples of Soul. 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.560 He broke in the acting on a little cable series 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.120 known as The Sopranos. That same year, he rejoined the 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:32.000 E Street Band, but his solo workload remained constant. In 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.039 two thousand two, he began hosting his radio show Little 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.520 Steven's Underground Garage and started his own label, We Could 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.959 Cool Records. Both are dedicated to the preservation of rock 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.039 and roll, both new and old. He also starred in 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.240 and co wrote the first original Netflix series, Lily Hammer, 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.560 and started the aptly names nonprofit, a rock and Roll 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:55.440 Forever Foundation. Frankly, he has far too many activities to 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:57.840 sum up here, and now we can add author to 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:03.240 his lengthy CV. He recently was just fantastic memoir unrequited infatuations. 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.800 He's a man of many faces. There's Miami, Steve, Little Stevie, 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:11.000 Suvio Dante, and Frank the Fixer just to name a few, 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:13.359 and we're thrilled to have all of them here today. 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.640 I'm so happy to welcome Mr Steven van zand I 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:22.440 hope you enjoy our chat. I absolutely adored your book. 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.200 I mean, one of the things that I loved about 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:25.959 it so much was that I could hear your voice 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.040 in my head. It sounded like you. It was like 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.640 I could imagine the audio book playing as I was 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:32.600 reading it. It definitely had you all over it, which 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.720 is amazing. Well, yeah, that was the idea, you know. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.280 In fact, that's how I wrote it. I wrote it 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.959 with the audio in mind, you know. I mean, I 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.320 did do the audiobook also, but uh, I thought, you know, 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:49.120 let me write it the way I speak and uh 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.360 and I explained to the editor and uh and the publisher. 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:55.760 I said, you know, this is not gonna look right. 0:02:55.800 --> 0:03:00.680 It's not gonna be grammatically correct, but but if you 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:02.639 read it the way I'm gonna write it, you're gonna 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.280 hear my voice. So ye, that worked out. That worked 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:09.040 out good, so awesome. And the book comes after a 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.360 really productive last few years. I made your solo your 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.320 solo record, so fire, you reform the Disciples of Soul, 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.720 and you have the Summer sorcery? Did doing those records 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.359 reconnect you to a certain party yourself? Like, what made 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:25.040 you decide to tackle this book? Now? Yeah, yeah, that 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.280 was that was a big part of it. Um. I 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.800 And like most of my life, I didn't plan it. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:35.160 I didn't you know, I didn't. Uh. I didn't expect 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.360 to get back into the music business at all. Uh. 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:43.600 It's happened by just by pure circumstance. Uh Uh. At 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.800 the end of the Eastreet tour in two thousand sixteen, 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.160 uh this Uh, British promoter just said, you know when 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.040 you're coming back to London and uh, I said, well, 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:57.200 me and Maureen, you know, we we come back for 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.320 her birthday every year, but this year we're gonna come 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.680 back a little earlier for for Bill Wyman's eightieth birthday party. 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.480 He invited us to his party and he said, well, 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.720 that's the same week as my as My Blues festival. 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.880 Why don't you throw a band together and headline one 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:15.920 of the nights. I mean, this is how my this 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.960 is how my crazy, my life is. You know. I 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.080 was like, headline one of the nights. I said, I 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.200 haven't fronted a band in thirty years. You know. And 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:31.200 he says, come on, it's like riding a bicycle. I said, yeah, 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:36.599 it's a it's a big bicycle. But anyway, but I 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:38.679 don't know. The more I thought about it, it sounds 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:40.280 like fun, you know, I thought, well, you know, I'll 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.360 bring back the horns, you know, uh, like I like 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.560 I did used on my first, very first solo album, 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.720 and um, and uh, it'll be fun and I'll get 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:52.839 a chance to play some Paul Butterfield stuff, you know, 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.239 with the horns that nobody ever hears. Uh, electric flag 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.320 stuff that nobody ever hears, you know, nobody's you know, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.720 and uh, you know, and those two of my own. 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.279 And so we started rehearsing some of my old songs, 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:10.480 which I haven't literally thought about for thirty forty years. 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.400 I was like, damn, you know, these things are pretty good, 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:19.680 you know that kind of interesting, you know they I mean, 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:24.119 the one thing about not being fashionable, you know, ever, 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:29.960 is that you end up being timeless, you know. And uh, 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.560 and I thought, you know, these things are they're kind 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.520 of like their own genre. You know, this this rock 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.200 meat soul thing you know that I created with south 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:42.880 Side Johnny, Um, it kinda it holds up in some 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.760 weird way because it was never it was never you know, 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.640 it was never trendy, you know, so so it kind 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.840 of has its own space. And I thought, Man, a 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.520 lot of these songs, and even the subject matter, unfortunately, 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.919 was still relevant, you know, thirty forty years later, you know, 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.480 which is a shame uh in some cases. But Uh, 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.600 I was just like Man, and so I I reconnected 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:12.200 to my life's work and uh. And I didn't realize 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:17.800 really that I kind of abandoned it for literally three decades. Uh, 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.320 but I was It was really very very very helpful 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.080 to do that. And uh and then um, one thing 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.600 led to another and another and another, and the same 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:31.520 band hung in there with me, terrific band, Mark Riblet 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.760 put together for me, and suddenly a whole new album, 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.760 you know, the Soul the Soulfire record was just for fun. Uh, 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.640 songs I've written for other people, you know. I we 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.440 hadn't had nothing. I had nothing to do. Um. You know, 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.000 I was gonna do a TV show and then I 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.800 fell through at the last minute, and then Bruce were 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.320 thinking about touring, but then Bruce decieted to do Broadway, 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.760 you know, and uh, suddenly uh, you know, and nothing 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.760 to do. So I said, well, you know, maybe I 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.840 make a record of of well the blues gig went 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.360 was so good and so much fun. But I thought, damn, 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:06.800 you know, we should we should, you know, keep this 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.000 together somehow a little bit. And and I'm able to 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.360 do it to a record of songs I've written for 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.040 the people and that and that was so fire. And 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:15.880 then somebody said I want to see this live, and 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.000 they paid for a tour, and one thing led to another, 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.680 and before you know what, uh, new new songs started 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.360 coming to me. Added a blue and uh it was 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:26.960 really a gift, man. Summer Sorcery was just a gift 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.400 from the gods were literally and I was like, wow, man, 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.360 you know uh and and and it ended up putting 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.040 out not only those two records, but but a total 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.920 of six album packages in three years. You know, we 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:43.600 remastered the whole catalog. We put out the Lily Hammer score. Um, 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.080 you know when the live to live albums, you know, 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.480 from the tours, because my life, my live show is 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.800 really um, it's really a show, you know, I mean, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.120 it's it's it's a it's not a random bunch of songs, 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.000 you know, it's a very thematic show, and so the 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:05.120 live records are valid uh artistically themselves. So we ended 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.040 up doing six album packages and I was like so 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:12.440 uh and and touring the world, you know twice. So 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:14.640 it was kind of good timing to have a quarantine. 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:16.600 You know. I just went on the road for a 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.360 long time and I reconnected to my work and I 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:21.880 felt a little closure, you know, I felt a little 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.360 bit of you know what, you know, if some resourceries 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.840 my last where ever, you know, I'm okay with that, 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.440 you know. And so I felt like I had a beginning, middle, 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.840 and an end of the book. And um, you know, 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:39.199 so use that quarantine to to to write it. Did 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.760 you learn anything about yourself right in this book when 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:43.600 you saw it all down on paper, to change your 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.400 perspective on any part of your life? You know, it 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:52.400 really did, because I more or less for forty years now, 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.000 I've been kind of beating myself up a little bit, 0:08:55.920 --> 0:09:02.200 um thinking you know, um, uh, maybe maybe I could 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:06.280 have done what I did after I left the band. Um, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.319 if I you know, if I'd been able to stay 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.920 in the band, maybe I could have done both things. 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:16.880 You know. Uh, you know, I never really really analyzed it. 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:19.440 I never you know, I don't think about it too much. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.200 I really don't look look back too often. But in 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.760 the back of my mind I always felt cheese I 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.959 I wish I could have done both things. But when 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.600 I went back and really lived it, and really transported 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:34.880 myself back and and really lived those days, I realized, 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.840 there's there's no way. People. I don't know how you 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.520 did it without the band. It was really you know, 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.920 and uh. And I realized that I think the one 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.319 of one of the reasons for writing the book, because 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.679 I wanted the book to be useful mostly, you know, 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.640 I mean and uh and and uh and and I 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.000 told I told the editor Ben Greenman, who was a 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.000 terrific editor. I said, listen, just keep me honest here. 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:02.600 I want to. I want to I want to balance 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.200 three things. You know. Yes, we have to do the narrative, obviously, 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.160 but that's the least interesting part to me. I want 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.720 to make sure we have the history in there, because 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:13.880 all I missed was the first decade of rock and roll. 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.600 The rest I kind of observed first person, you know, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:18.600 So I want to get the history in there for 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.679 the younger generations that may not know how this stuff 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.400 went down. It might be interested in that. And and 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.280 and the third track is is the craft you know, 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:32.320 all the crafts that I've been involved with, um, you know, 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.160 I mean, and you never stopped learning, of course, But 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:36.880 but I thought, you know, maybe I could, you know, 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.480 give a couple of observations that might be helpful. So 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.400 I wanted to be useful that way. And and and 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:47.920 what happens is as I'm as I'm writing it, I realized, 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.960 you know, it's really kind of like two books. You know. 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.120 The first half of the book, Local Kid from Jersey 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:55.680 makes it to the top of rock and roll, you know, 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:59.240 you know, and that's a terrific story by itself, that 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.959 really really is. But the second half kind of gets 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.600 more interesting. And I think the themes start to broaden 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:10.800 when I leave the band. And I wasn't changing jobs 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.160 at that point. I was ending my life, you know, 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:20.120 That's how it felt. And uh, look literally staring off 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:24.120 at the edge of the cliff, you know, Uh, nowhere 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.599 to go, no no thoughts as to what I was 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:33.719 gonna do. And in spite of that, uh, everything I've 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.320 accomplished in my life happened after that. You know, when 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:42.000 I thought my life was over, and I thought this 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.480 could be helpful with somebody, I think, you know, because 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.720 I think everybody gets disappointed in in in their lives 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.920 and and uh and maybe they think it's over and 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.679 you know, there's no plan B and you've got nowhere 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.959 to go. But if you can find a way to 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:03.679 move forward somehow, just keep moving forward, uh, and and 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:08.719 not succumb to the you know, to to giving up 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.800 and to to you know, doing drugs or drinking or 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.920 committing suicide or and I considered all of those things, 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.000 you know, if you could find a way to just um, 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.880 just avoid those those pitfalls and and kind of keep 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:29.000 moving forward. Destiny has a way of surprising you. And uh. 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.439 And I think I'm a really good example of that, 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.400 you know, because I mean everything I've accomplished in my 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.240 life happened after I thought my life was over, you know, 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.720 And so I thought that that maybe maybe that's gonna 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.000 be useful, you know, maybe you know. So it's those 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.960 kind of things that that motivated me actually write it, 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.319 you know, right to write the book. I liked to 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.320 The subhead of the book was a cautionary tale, which 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.480 I laughed at because to me reading it back seems 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:59.600 like a life well lived to me. Well, but you know, 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:01.880 I it's probably a little little couple of a couple 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.520 of nuggets along the way that I picked up, and 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.160 one of which is never leave your power base until 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.920 you have a new one, you know, And I and 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:15.400 I hope people listen to that, because you know, it 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.840 doesn't matter how powerful you are in that power base. 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.440 And and and you're lucky to have a power base, 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.800 of course, you know in the first place, right uh, 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:30.120 And you're feeling a certain I don't know, feeling of 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:34.679 success or a feeling of power, and you go off 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:40.200 and you leave it behind. It's amazing how quickly, you know, 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:46.319 you go from being a force of nature two completely irrelevant. 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.640 I mean, it's it's it's shocking how quickly it happens. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.480 And I think that that's something that everybody should pay 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.120 attention to. You do, no matter how powerful you are, 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.400 no matter how successful you are, man, you better know 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:06.800 where you're going because things change, you know, things change 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.280 in ways. Do you think you think you think your 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.600 success is locked and concrete or you know, and it's 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:18.360 not if not, you know? So, Yeah, the title the 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.040 book is such a great title and recorded infatuations. I mean, 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.160 I was thinking about a lot about what it meant 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.480 and why you may have chosen it. And the more 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.160 I thought about it, I thought, that's such a great 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.440 primary motivator for rock and roll, you know, I mean, 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.880 that pent up passion, that yearning, that desire to be seen. 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.000 I mean, maybe that says more about me than it 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.360 does about you in the book title. But but what 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.320 what led you to? Uh to that phrases the title again, 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.200 I'm looking for more universal themes than just a music 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.680 book for music people, you know. Uh, And it's plenty 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.600 of that in there. But but I thought to myself, 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:58.480 you know, even even somebody like me, who is very 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.800 successful what with the Street, and very successful with sopranos 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.200 and Lilly Hammer, Uh, even successful politically with the Sun 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:13.960 City project. Um, even somebody like me, most of my 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:21.200 most personal projects UM never found an audience, you know. Um, 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:26.720 none of my solo records succeeded, you know, commercially. UM. 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:31.800 Going back and really re examining them artistically, I wouldn't 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:33.640 change the thing, tell you truth, you know. I mean, 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.920 I was totally happy with with with everything I did artistically, 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:42.480 But commercially. Uh, I never had that one hit, and 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:46.040 which is really you know, a big difference, a big 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:50.480 difference between no hits and one hit, you know. Uh, 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.240 you know it's nice if you have ten hits or 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.120 twenty hits or thirty hits, but one hit is what 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.880 is what makes the difference to which I never had. 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:05.880 So so you you are constantly uh struggling to find 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:11.200 ways of working, you know, uh, finding finding a patron, 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:16.840 finding a deal. You constantly it's one long negotiations, it's 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.840 one long audition. It's you know, it's a constant sort 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.040 of fight. And I you know, instead of me spending 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.880 you know, of my time artists on art and creativity 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:33.280 and ten percent on business, it's the opposite, you know. 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.480 And and I mean I'm being kind to myself saying 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.640 I spent ten percent on on the creativity. It's probably 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.800 more like one percent, you know. I mean, as you know, 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:47.120 spend every day, all day looking for money to pay 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.800 for this overhead that I've created with you know, the 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.920 radio format and the radio stations, and the record company 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.320 and and you know, and and the foundation and this 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:00.840 and that. You know, it's one of these things. Now 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.000 pay for themselves, but a lot of them, don't you know. 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.479 Uh never made money with the radio show. It's the 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.359 most one of the most popular radio shows in the 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.520 world and one of thost you know. I have three 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:17.520 stations on serious satellite now and um, you know we're 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.480 on We're in a hundred countries with with the syndicated show. 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.639 And it loses money, you know, And what are you 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.000 gonna do? I mean, people depend on it. They you know, 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.919 we have the only rock and soul format in the world. 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.880 I mean, if we disappear, forget it, you know, we 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.359 we we We've introduced over a thousand new bands in 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:42.000 twenty years, thousands, you know. Uh you know, and and 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.920 they are gonna have nowhere to go if we disappear, literally, 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.639 uh you know. So it's it's too important, you know, 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.200 it's it's too big to fail. As the espression goes, 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.720 it's it's too popular and fail, let's put it that way. 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.560 And um, so you know, these things continue to be 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.840 a struggle. So so you know, most of my most 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.920 personal work, um, has not found an audience. And so 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:17.760 um that's among the unfactored you know, the the unrequited infatuations. Uh. 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:22.840 But again, I think most people experience that and uh. UM. 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.600 I was trying to emphasize the universal themes. Like I said, 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:30.439 the second half of the book, UM goes from you know, 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:35.960 the music thing to a bigger search for identity, a 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:40.240 search for purpose in life, a search for spiritual enlightenment, 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.960 you know. Uh. And those are the bigger themes that 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.320 I think everybody can relate to relate to and uh 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.080 and I wanted to do that. I wanted it to 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.720 be more, you know, a bigger book than just for 0:18:52.880 --> 0:19:08.040 music people. I mean speaking of of themes, I mean, 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:10.600 the book was was so cinematic. I mean, you know, 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:12.040 I don't want to spoil up for anybody, but I 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.040 mean opening with with you know you in the back 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:15.840 of a of a car being being smuggled in the 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:17.600 South Africa. I mean I could just see it playing 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.200 out like a movie, which begs the question I wanted 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.280 to ask you, what would be the theme song to 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.280 UH to this book if this if there was you know, 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:28.439 if you're putting together a soundtrack to your life, what 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:30.280 do you feel like we kick things off or you 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:37.680 know something's up? I don't know, man, you know, uh. 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:42.520 Every album has its has its UH has its themes, 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.159 you know, So it depends on what mood you're in, 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:49.000 what phays of your life. I'm not sure and any 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:53.480 one thing sums it all up. I mean maybe, um, 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.920 you know, maybe until the Good Has Gone something like that, 0:19:55.960 --> 0:20:00.359 you know from my first album, you know, uh, or 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.560 soul Fire for my one of my recent records, you know, uh, 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:09.040 something like that. Something uh, you know, solidarity maybe something, 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.639 you know, one of the more universal type of themes. 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.880 You know. Man's are all good choices, I know. You 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.560 you talk in your book about seeing the Beatles on 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.359 on Sullivan and February sixty four is a you know, 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:25.280 major turning point in your life, a musical big bang, 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:27.400 and not just because of their sound and their look, 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:29.760 but the fact that they were a band. And I 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:31.520 feel like that's something that a lot of people miss 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.760 now that you know, talk a little bit more about 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.200 just the importance of a band and what that meant 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.639 in nineteen sixty four and how transformative that was to 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.000 two young people. It's it's it's it's a little little 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:48.920 hard to imagine. But there were no bands. Uh, there wasn't. 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.720 You didn't see four or five guys singing and playing 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.240 you know, you didn't see it. Uh, if you went 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.399 to your high school dancing was an instrumental group, you know, 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.600 if you went to somebody's adding, you know, they were 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:06.679 older guys, you know, Frankie Yankovic do and polka stuff. 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.520 Well yeah, you know, yeah, but but you you know, 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:17.200 so suddenly here's four guys and soon to be followed 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.800 by fifteen other bands that are four or five guys. 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:30.719 Um and introducing the band idea um, which was a 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:35.760 totally different communication. Uh. Two people like me, especially who 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.879 really didn't fit in anywhere. You know, I was not 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:43.520 really enjoying the options I was being offered by society. 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:46.399 I just you know, I didn't see where my future 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.920 was at all. And suddenly here was a glimpse at 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:54.720 what could be the future. And you know, if you're 0:21:54.720 --> 0:22:00.479 a solo act, it's all about me, me, me, you know. Uh. Um, 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:02.359 you either fall in love with me or you don't. 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:08.760 You know, And um band Uh just was a different communication. 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:13.040 It's it's friendship, it's the family, it's the team, the posse, 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:17.280 the gang, however you want to put it. Um. You know, 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:22.080 guys working towards the common goal together. You knows, it's 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:25.800 all kinds of a whole different texture to it. And 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.879 uh and that that's what appealed to me, you know. 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:33.800 Uh uh and not even the show business aspects of it, 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.040 because I want a big fan of show business at 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:40.680 that time. Uh you know, when you're I mean, I 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:43.880 like it now, but but back then, you're building your 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:48.760 identity and you are what you like, and um, you're searching. 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:54.000 Uh and and and I always connect the Beatles, um 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:58.320 with the Rolling Stones, which came four months later. They 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:01.600 came four months later and a different variety show called 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:08.000 Hollywood Palace and uh Dino, Yeah, and I witnessed my 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:14.680 past and my future there. Dean Martin relentlessly made fun 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:18.199 of them, uh, you know, as he was supposed to, 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:21.159 you know, which I didn't have a problem with, you know, 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.919 Uh Keith Richards, you know, don't bring it up to 0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:30.080 his day because you know, he still piste off about it. 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.040 But uh but I was like, of course they're gonna 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.119 make fun of them, you know. Uh. But what was 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:39.880 important to me, you know, because the Beatles were we 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:42.879 were we we discovered them halfway through the career and 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:46.840 and they were extremely good. By that, I mean, they 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:50.359 were they were perfect okay. I mean the harmony was amazing, 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.479 you know, the hair or the clothes. You know, they 0:23:53.520 --> 0:24:00.160 were witty and and and conversation was and um and 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:03.760