WEBVTT - #490 Maggie Freleng with Tom Rhodes

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<v Speaker 1>Tom Rhodes loves sports.

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<v Speaker 2>I wrestled. I just wrestled year round.

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<v Speaker 3>I get on the I have a freestyle team and

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<v Speaker 3>wrestled the Olympic style and a thousand years ago won

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<v Speaker 3>the state freestyle championship and second Greco Roman.

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<v Speaker 1>What way class were you were you wrestled?

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<v Speaker 3>I was one seventy five for that tournament and I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't cut any weight at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom didn't have to work out. He worked on a farm.

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<v Speaker 3>I just decided I'm going to go in there farm

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<v Speaker 3>strong and farm strong.

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<v Speaker 1>I like that. I met Tom at the Annual Innocence

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<v Speaker 1>Network Conference in April twenty twenty four. You look like

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<v Speaker 1>you could be a sportscaster. I was like someone cut

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<v Speaker 1>of prison was such a nice st No, he does, Yeah, okay.

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<v Speaker 3>I had one viable tooth in my head when I

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<v Speaker 3>when I left prison, and the rest of them needed

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of work, and so I had no choice.

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<v Speaker 2>But I had a lot of work done.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, now you have your sportscaster.

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<v Speaker 3>Looks I'm hoping to land something after talking to you.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Tom Rhodes, and.

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<v Speaker 3>I was wrongly incarcerated for eight nine hundred and thirty

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<v Speaker 3>two days about twenty four and a half years.

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<v Speaker 1>From Love of for Good This is Wrongful Conviction with

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<v Speaker 1>Maggie Freeling today Tom Rhodes. Tom Rhodes was born in

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<v Speaker 1>June nineteen fifty nine to Lois and Daniel Rhodes.

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<v Speaker 3>My parents farmed and my mom worked for the bank

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<v Speaker 3>in the little town of Dunk, Iowa.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom is the oldest of four kids. He was twelve

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<v Speaker 1>when his sister was born.

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<v Speaker 3>Kind of kind of grew up in a work hard,

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<v Speaker 3>play hard environment.

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<v Speaker 1>There was always work to be done on the farm.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom's brother Ron says, they were constantly on the go.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, Dad would holler up in the morning, boys,

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<v Speaker 4>time to get up, and you know we were expected

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<v Speaker 4>to be downstairs and you know, ten or fifteen minutes.

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<v Speaker 4>So we were moving equipment from farm to farm or

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<v Speaker 4>out fixing.

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<v Speaker 2>Equipment between livestock and raising cattle.

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<v Speaker 4>And harvesting or planting.

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<v Speaker 2>But really wonderful life.

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<v Speaker 4>Actually, Tom probably had the hardest of everyone because it

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<v Speaker 4>was less automated when he was younger, so it was

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<v Speaker 4>a lot more physical labor. And he was he was,

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<v Speaker 4>like I'd say, probably my dad's right hand man.

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<v Speaker 1>So are you getting emotional right now?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>I just I guess just thinking back to the way

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<v Speaker 4>our lives were, Just thinking back about, you know, how

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<v Speaker 4>we all kind of worked together, and how good my

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<v Speaker 4>parents were, you know, to of us all.

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<v Speaker 1>Where did life take you?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>I graduated from Webster City High School in nineteen seventy seven,

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<v Speaker 3>and I graduated from westmar University with the sociology, psychology,

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<v Speaker 3>and a business minor.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom wanted to be a wrestling coach and teacher. That

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<v Speaker 1>was my plan, but his plans changed.

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<v Speaker 3>And I ended up going into agrisales in the seed

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<v Speaker 3>and fertiliz in industry.

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<v Speaker 1>Still Tom thrived. He was good at sales.

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<v Speaker 4>He's just got a really charismatic personality. He's very outgoing,

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<v Speaker 4>he's fun he's funny. He just has a way like

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<v Speaker 4>of just you know, making you feel at ease.

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<v Speaker 1>But before his success as a big time sales VP,

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<v Speaker 1>Tom was just a college kid who one day saw

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty girl.

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<v Speaker 2>I met Jane at college my junior year.

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<v Speaker 1>It was nineteen seventy nine.

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<v Speaker 3>And she was a farm girl from Northwest Aisle and

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<v Speaker 3>five seven, blue eyes.

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<v Speaker 1>With long blonde hair, just really pretty. Tom was smitten.

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<v Speaker 3>She had a kind of a down home country girl flavor.

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<v Speaker 1>Not even a year after they met, Tom and Jane

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<v Speaker 1>were married in nineteen eighty So you met Jane and

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<v Speaker 1>you guys were like had over heels.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was.

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<v Speaker 3>It was kind of a quick romance and we loved

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<v Speaker 3>each other and each other's families.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a good bit.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that we had so much in common from

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<v Speaker 3>like a work ethic and you know, be good to

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<v Speaker 3>family and love one another. It was just we were

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<v Speaker 3>raised the same way. I really think that was the

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<v Speaker 3>essence of it.

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<v Speaker 4>They were always like joking around with one another, like

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<v Speaker 4>he would tease.

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<v Speaker 1>Her Tom's brother Ron.

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<v Speaker 4>Again, she was just probably the sweetest huh person. You

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<v Speaker 4>just sense that she loved you and she cared about you.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like she was more than just your brother's wife.

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<v Speaker 1>You really felt like she was part of your family.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, she was just an amazing person. She had

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<v Speaker 4>such a great spirit about her when you were around her.

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<v Speaker 4>That's what I would say about Jane.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen eighty two, they had their first son, Eric,

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<v Speaker 1>and their second son, Jason. In nineteen eighty seven. Tom

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<v Speaker 1>and Jane and the boys moved all around for Tom's

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<v Speaker 1>work in agricultural sales, but Eventually they landed in Mankato,

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<v Speaker 1>Minnesota in the early nineties.

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<v Speaker 3>The kids really flourished in the school district there, and

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<v Speaker 3>Jason and Eric were both in sports football, did a

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<v Speaker 3>little wrestling and basketball, and so I tried to coach

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<v Speaker 3>and be a part of things, whether it be assistant

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<v Speaker 3>coach or whatever I could do to step up.

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<v Speaker 2>To be there.

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<v Speaker 1>For a couple of years in the early nineties, Tom

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<v Speaker 1>and Jane landed on hard times.

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<v Speaker 3>We went through a little bit of a rough patch

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<v Speaker 3>communication wise. I don't think things were as good as

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<v Speaker 3>they could.

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<v Speaker 1>They were also struggling financially.

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<v Speaker 4>People go through difficult times and marriages. I've been married

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<v Speaker 4>for eighteen years, and I'm sure that they had difficult times,

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<v Speaker 4>But it wasn't like I ever felt like they if

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<v Speaker 4>they felt like they didn't love one another or whatever.

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<v Speaker 4>I feel like they were both the type of people

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<v Speaker 4>that would come together and say, hey, well, what are

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<v Speaker 4>we going to do about this? What's best for the boys,

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<v Speaker 4>I think is what they would be thinking in that

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<v Speaker 4>scenario if they had or went through trouble. It was

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<v Speaker 4>never in front of us or the family and anything

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<v Speaker 4>like that. And I just never felt that Tom knowing

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<v Speaker 4>his love for Jane and for the boys, I never

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<v Speaker 4>felt that he would have intentionally hurt her or done

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<v Speaker 4>anything harmful.

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<v Speaker 1>By nineteen ninety six, things were on the up. Jane

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<v Speaker 1>got a job with good pay and benefits.

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<v Speaker 3>I was doing well my job and getting bigger bonus checks.

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<v Speaker 3>And we sold our first house and bought a house

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<v Speaker 3>that was completely redone with a great room build on

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<v Speaker 3>a new basement underneath of it that had had a fire,

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<v Speaker 3>and it was kind of our dream place.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom was VP at the seed company. I mentioned earlier.

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<v Speaker 3>We were doing better than we had and.

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<v Speaker 2>Our life was and.

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<v Speaker 3>We were happy and felt like we were also enjoying

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<v Speaker 3>the success of our careers.

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<v Speaker 1>They had finally made it. I mean, y'all had a boat,

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<v Speaker 1>you must have been doing well.

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<v Speaker 3>We we had had a couple of different boats, but

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<v Speaker 3>we mainly had had jet skis and done that and

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<v Speaker 3>tubed and wakeboarded behind the bigger jet skis and stuff

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<v Speaker 3>we we did. We did a lot of stuff on

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<v Speaker 3>the water. Ever since we moved to Minnesota, we kind

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<v Speaker 3>of lived on the water.

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<v Speaker 4>I went up to vacation with them in northern Minnesota

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<v Speaker 4>and the family basically my parents and Tom's family had

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<v Speaker 4>rented a house on a lake, and I went up

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<v Speaker 4>there for two or three days and spent time with

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<v Speaker 4>them boating and fishing, and they just had a good time.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, they just were down to earth but like

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<v Speaker 4>to have fun. And you know, we were growing up,

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<v Speaker 4>we didn't do a lot of vacationing and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 4>But you know, one summer I remember vividly kind of

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<v Speaker 4>going and just just having a blast, Tom teaching me

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<v Speaker 4>how to ski, and just everybody having fun together and

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<v Speaker 4>being a family doing doing the family stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom and Jane loved being out on the water, and

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<v Speaker 1>when the boys were asleep.

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<v Speaker 2>Jane and I would have a drink or two and

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<v Speaker 2>go out.

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<v Speaker 1>On the night of August second, the family was on

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<v Speaker 1>another vacation.

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<v Speaker 3>We had let the boys always play in the pool

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<v Speaker 3>at the end, and that night they just were out

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<v Speaker 3>from all the you know, vacationing and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Just tired out.

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<v Speaker 1>So Tom and Jane left the boys in their hotel

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<v Speaker 1>and took the boat out on Green Lake for a

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<v Speaker 1>moonlight ride.

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<v Speaker 2>We were just relaxing and talking. It was so peaceful,

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<v Speaker 2>and we were discussing about you know, getting back and

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<v Speaker 2>getting the boys started in school, and you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>sports season was going to be kicking off for football,

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<v Speaker 2>so it was a lot of fun things to look

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<v Speaker 2>forward to.

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<v Speaker 1>It was getting late, so they decided to call it

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<v Speaker 1>a night.

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<v Speaker 2>And we went north and that's when she fell out.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom says he saw Jane lean forward. She seemed to

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<v Speaker 1>have dropped something.

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<v Speaker 3>Later we found out was an ear ring, and she

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<v Speaker 3>went to pick something up. I thought she was just

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<v Speaker 3>turning to set down beside me. The moon was to

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<v Speaker 3>the right. I looked, glanced the right to navigate, look back,

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<v Speaker 3>and saw her shoes going over.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom says he was frantic.

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<v Speaker 3>I was in emergency mode trying to save Jane and

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<v Speaker 3>was looking. I looked so hard, I swear I thought

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<v Speaker 3>I saw her, and and so I jumped out and

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<v Speaker 3>didn't find anything, and quickly learned that I had jumped

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<v Speaker 3>off the back of the boat with the point facing

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<v Speaker 3>south and pushed the boat away from me. And I

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<v Speaker 3>had almost I was so exhausted from what had.

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<v Speaker 2>Happened and searching in the water.

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<v Speaker 3>I almost did make it back to the boat myself,

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<v Speaker 3>but he did and then I I know I did circles.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if.

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<v Speaker 3>I zigzag too but I tried to cover the area

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<v Speaker 3>because I thought she had to be there and if

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<v Speaker 3>she was unconscious, I could maybe find her floater.

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<v Speaker 6>I need CPR, so I thought I could savor but

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<v Speaker 6>I didn't find her.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom eventually beached the boat and ran into a restaurant

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<v Speaker 1>for help.

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<v Speaker 3>The night clerk let me in and I was drans

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<v Speaker 3>from head to toe, exhausted, trying to talk and almost

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<v Speaker 3>throwing up all at the same time.

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<v Speaker 1>Soon law enforcement showed up and helped in the search.

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<v Speaker 1>They also questioned Tom about the night, but he had

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<v Speaker 1>other things on his mind.

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<v Speaker 3>I kept telling him, I want to go back out

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<v Speaker 3>and search for my wife. I want to go back

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<v Speaker 3>out on my boat. You guys have got my boat

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<v Speaker 3>in the other boat. I want to go be back

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<v Speaker 3>and be part.

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<v Speaker 2>Of a search. And they wouldn't let me.

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<v Speaker 3>So that was probably the most difficult thing, other than

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<v Speaker 3>telling the boys obviously they're boys.

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<v Speaker 1>Still talked in bed.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the hardest thing.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean to, you know, look into my son's beautiful blue.

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<v Speaker 2>Eyes and I have to see that kind of pain.

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<v Speaker 1>The next morning, some fishermen came across a body in

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<v Speaker 1>the water. It was Jane.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd have done anything.

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<v Speaker 5>Did not have to don't have to tell them that

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<v Speaker 5>about their losing their mom.

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<v Speaker 7>Tavas is my partner Dan dan Her telling hey, Todd, Dan.

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<v Speaker 6>How good are you.

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<v Speaker 1>Almost two weeks after Jane's body was found, police brought

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<v Speaker 1>Tom into the Candy O High Share station for questioning.

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<v Speaker 3>This has been the hardest thing in while life, be

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<v Speaker 3>losing my wife for sixteen years.

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<v Speaker 1>And police had questioned Tom the night Jane fell into

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<v Speaker 1>the water, and now, following a few days of investigation,

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<v Speaker 1>they wanted to go over that night again.

0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.360
<v Speaker 7>He said, you're not under arrest anything like. We asked

0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.160
<v Speaker 7>you to come down here to talk to us about

0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.640
<v Speaker 7>the accident because that night it was confusing. There's a

0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:07.640
<v Speaker 7>lot of things going on.

0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.079
<v Speaker 1>And they also had a report from the medical examiner.

0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.120
<v Speaker 7>The body's brought down to doctor McGee. Do you ever

0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 7>hear of him? Okay, he's a forensic pathologist in Ramsey County.

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:21.000
<v Speaker 6>All right.

0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.240
<v Speaker 8>At the beginning of the case, at the beginning of

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:27.200
<v Speaker 8>the investigation, the medical examiner didn't really have any medical

0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.400
<v Speaker 8>evidence to support the idea that Tom was guilty of

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:31.600
<v Speaker 8>premeditated murder.

0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.960
<v Speaker 1>This is Jim Mayer, legal director at the Great North Innocence.

0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 8>Project, but he had suspicions.

0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.200
<v Speaker 1>Suspicions influenced by the theories of the police.

0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.280
<v Speaker 7>When you when you went out there that evening with

0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:48.080
<v Speaker 7>your wife, did you have any intentions to harm her?

0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:48.640
<v Speaker 6>No?

0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:57.320
<v Speaker 7>Absolutely, no way. Okay, how did those And I'm hoping

0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 7>you can help me out here if you could really

0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.000
<v Speaker 7>think how that marked gotten on her face?

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.000
<v Speaker 1>The first doctor to look at Jane's body found bruising

0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.600
<v Speaker 1>on her face, head, and a cut to the right

0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:10.640
<v Speaker 1>side of her mouth. Then the forensic pathologist who performed

0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:15.520
<v Speaker 1>the autopsy, doctor Michael McGee, found hemorrhaging beneath the facial injuries.

0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Her death was initially ruled undetermined, so the police kept digging.

0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:23.520
<v Speaker 8>Was there trouble in the marriage?

0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.160
<v Speaker 7>Did you guys ever talk about a divorce? Was there

0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.480
<v Speaker 7>an ever period in your marriage caught?

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:33.160
<v Speaker 8>Did the family have debts? Was there life insurance involved?

0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.320
<v Speaker 7>Did you have any type of insurance like on your

0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:42.240
<v Speaker 7>morgine if somebody passes away that helps.

0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.320
<v Speaker 1>Pay the war each Remember Tom and Jane had struggled

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 1>financially for a few years right before this, so they

0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:49.160
<v Speaker 1>found that, you.

0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.480
<v Speaker 8>Know, these are all totally commonplace things, but they just

0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.880
<v Speaker 8>they weaved all of that stuff together into a story

0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.800
<v Speaker 8>of a man who is desperate and wanted to get

0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 8>out of his marriage but couldn't afford it and wanted

0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:02.280
<v Speaker 8>the life insurance money.

0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Police had also found out about the rocky years in

0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:06.760
<v Speaker 1>their relationship.

0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:07.840
<v Speaker 7>Just funny.

0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:08.360
<v Speaker 2>You know what we.

0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.840
<v Speaker 7>Learned, Tom, is that there were some rough spots in

0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:19.600
<v Speaker 7>your marriage. Okay, and there were, but those rules were

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 7>long behind us.

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 5>I haven't haven't had any problems recently.

0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:31.360
<v Speaker 1>On top of everything, police also said Tom was quote

0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:32.840
<v Speaker 1>not grieving properly.

0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, imagine that. That's quite a bold statement. How do

0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.240
<v Speaker 3>you tell if someone's had a loss how they should grieve.

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:48.000
<v Speaker 3>I think that's a personal thing. And I totally a

0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:52.360
<v Speaker 3>grieved with my family, with my sons and took care

0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:58.080
<v Speaker 3>of them and and did my best. And I kept

0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.280
<v Speaker 3>a relationship with Deane's family inform them. As things were

0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.879
<v Speaker 3>unfolding with the legal system as well.

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.040
<v Speaker 1>As the months passed with all these new suspicions being

0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.720
<v Speaker 1>brought up by the police, the pathologist, doctor Michael McGee,

0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.320
<v Speaker 1>decided to give his initial report on Jane's death a

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.960
<v Speaker 1>second look to see if he could figure out what

0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:18.880
<v Speaker 1>had happened to.

0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.920
<v Speaker 8>Jane becoming his own version of a detective.

0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:26.200
<v Speaker 1>Marriage troubles, debts, alleged suspicious grieving behavior.

0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.160
<v Speaker 8>What you end up having is a medical examiner who,

0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.960
<v Speaker 8>in his initial review concludes that the medical findings don't

0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:37.800
<v Speaker 8>support homicide, looking into what the detectives are looking at,

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.119
<v Speaker 8>and then reverse himself and decide, yes, now the medical

0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.240
<v Speaker 8>findings support homicide.

0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Michael McGee changed his findings from undetermined to homicide.

0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.800
<v Speaker 1>After more than a year of investigation, police had their

0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.760
<v Speaker 1>prime suspect in sight, and on December ninth, nineteen ninety seven,

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.159
<v Speaker 1>a grand jury indicted Thomas Rhodes for murder.

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.560
<v Speaker 4>We didn't know how to respond. We didn't know, you know,

0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:10.360
<v Speaker 4>how to help him.

0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:12.679
<v Speaker 1>This is Tom's brother Ron again.

0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.600
<v Speaker 4>And it was I think it was so hard that

0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 4>time in our life, thinking back to the way it

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.480
<v Speaker 4>affected us as a family, the way it affected Tom

0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:28.080
<v Speaker 4>and his family, his young family, the way it affected

0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:32.000
<v Speaker 4>my mom and dad. They were very scared. One Tom

0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:36.720
<v Speaker 4>was indicted just because you know, he had always tried

0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.840
<v Speaker 4>to cooperate and we just never thought that, you know,

0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.560
<v Speaker 4>my brother would do anything to hurt Jane intentionally.

0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.399
<v Speaker 1>Tom went to trial the following year, in July nineteen

0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.199
<v Speaker 1>ninety eight. He had the support of Ron and his

0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:54.680
<v Speaker 1>parents and many family and friends who believed Tom wouldn't

0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:58.600
<v Speaker 1>have committed such a crime, but the trial prosecutor, John

0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:06.080
<v Speaker 1>Doherty said otherwise. He said Tom and Jane had a

0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.119
<v Speaker 1>lot of recent debt from their new lifestyle, the house,

0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:13.040
<v Speaker 1>the boat, in a new car. Docerty also brought up

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.920
<v Speaker 1>their previous marriage troubles. He said Tom wanted a divorce

0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.879
<v Speaker 1>but didn't want to pay child support, so he planned

0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.240
<v Speaker 1>to get rid of Jane and make it look accidental.

0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.360
<v Speaker 1>That way, he could cash in on her life insurance

0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:30.320
<v Speaker 1>policy and have his boys a win win. But these

0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:34.359
<v Speaker 1>were all theories, so the prosecution needed an expert to

0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.600
<v Speaker 1>make their whole case legitimate.

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:41.040
<v Speaker 8>The prosecution's case was largely built around the testimony of

0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.560
<v Speaker 8>doctor Michael McGee. That was really the lynchpin of the

0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:48.879
<v Speaker 8>state's case. What doctor McGee testified to was that he

0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.400
<v Speaker 8>could tell from the condition of Jane's body that there

0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.200
<v Speaker 8>had been a struggle on the boat.

0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Remember, there was bruising, hemorrhaging, and a cut on Jane's face.

0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.040
<v Speaker 1>Doctor McGee the injuries were the results of a fight

0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:03.320
<v Speaker 1>between Tom and.

0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.359
<v Speaker 8>Jane, and he also testified that he knew he could

0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.199
<v Speaker 8>tell from the condition of Jane's body that she had

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.679
<v Speaker 8>been struck multiple times by the boat after she had

0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.119
<v Speaker 8>fallen into the water. That was very powerful evidence for

0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:17.040
<v Speaker 8>the jury to hear.

0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.320
<v Speaker 1>And doctor McGhee wasn't done.

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.919
<v Speaker 8>He brought out a clay model and displayed it on

0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:23.960
<v Speaker 8>a table for the jury to look at, and this

0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:31.119
<v Speaker 8>clay model showed awful discoloration all over Jane's face and head.

0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Doctor McGee used a life size clay model of Jane's

0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:39.160
<v Speaker 1>head depicting a severely bruised face to show that her

0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.479
<v Speaker 1>injuries couldn't have been accidental.

0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:44.280
<v Speaker 8>And anyone who would look at this model would be

0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.920
<v Speaker 8>horrified to think about what must have happened to this person.

0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.720
<v Speaker 1>Tom couldn't believe the things he was being accused of

0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.359
<v Speaker 1>doing to Jane, grabbing her by the neck, pushing her over,

0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:58.240
<v Speaker 1>and running her over multiple times with the boat.

0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:05.359
<v Speaker 3>I knew it was a lie, but my attorney wasn't

0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:07.360
<v Speaker 3>prepared to handle doctor McGee.

0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:12.159
<v Speaker 1>Tom's defense attorney was Michael College. Although Tom says that

0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:15.000
<v Speaker 1>College did a poor job on Cross, he did have

0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:19.160
<v Speaker 1>a qualified expert he called doctor Lindsay Thomas to refute

0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:20.040
<v Speaker 1>doctor McGee.

0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:26.040
<v Speaker 3>Doctor Lindsay Thomas pretty much went against McGee one hundred

0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 3>percent and.

0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Refuted everything that they had said.

0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Lindsay Thomas testified that Jane's face indeed had internal

0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:39.520
<v Speaker 1>hemorrhaging on both sides, but not because of multiple intentional

0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:41.879
<v Speaker 1>blows with the boat. She said, it was because the

0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.399
<v Speaker 1>blood from the forehead injury dreamed into her face and

0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:46.240
<v Speaker 1>settled there.

0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:50.080
<v Speaker 8>Anyone who knows about drowning victims and forensic pathology will

0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.800
<v Speaker 8>tell you where you have a drowning victim who has

0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.640
<v Speaker 8>been floating face down for thirteen hours or however long

0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.719
<v Speaker 8>it was, you're going to have the pooling of blood

0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:02.960
<v Speaker 8>and certain areas. And so this doesn't reflect that she

0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.239
<v Speaker 8>was beaten all over her face and head. What it

0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.639
<v Speaker 8>reflects was that blood, by virtue of gravity, will pool

0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:10.959
<v Speaker 8>in a certain area when a body that is no

0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:14.040
<v Speaker 8>longer circulating blood stays in a certain position for a

0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:14.760
<v Speaker 8>period of time.

0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.439
<v Speaker 1>And that's not new science. In nineteen ninety six, that

0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:18.760
<v Speaker 1>should have been known.

0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.160
<v Speaker 8>Absolutely, absolutely should have been known.

0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 1>After two weeks of trial, the jury was sent to deliberate.

0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.760
<v Speaker 3>I was really, really concerned, but I also believe that

0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.960
<v Speaker 3>you couldn't be convicted if you're innocent. I thought that

0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:39.720
<v Speaker 3>there was enough that they could see through doctor McGhee

0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.960
<v Speaker 3>and hopefully believe, you know, doctor Thomas, what was wrong.

0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:53.560
<v Speaker 1>On July twenty ninth, nineteen ninety eight, Thomas Rhodes was

0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:58.400
<v Speaker 1>convicted a first degree premeditated murder and sentenced to mandatory

0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:04.000
<v Speaker 1>life in prison. How did Tom's conviction affect you all?

0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:13.760
<v Speaker 4>Just heartbreaking, you know, first of all to lose my

0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:21.800
<v Speaker 4>sister in law. Yeah, I think that was just the

0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:26.960
<v Speaker 4>hardest thing. She was such a good mob, such a

0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:33.320
<v Speaker 4>good person, and seeing that together and they're boys, and

0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:37.440
<v Speaker 4>just it was just a heartache for I mean that

0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:39.399
<v Speaker 4>it was sore.

0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:43.800
<v Speaker 1>When Tom Rhodes got to prison in his late thirties,

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 1>he says he was completely out of his element.

0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:51.160
<v Speaker 3>I was raised by really compassionate people and kindness.

0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:52.720
<v Speaker 2>That's kind of seeing this weakness.

0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:56.280
<v Speaker 3>So you have to fight, you have to stand up

0:23:56.280 --> 0:24:01.239
<v Speaker 3>for yourself, you have to do whatever, and so I

0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:04.120
<v Speaker 3>just fought and didn't wait always.

0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Tom felt like he was becoming a shell of who

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.600
<v Speaker 1>he was. But when Ron and his parents visited, he

0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:10.879
<v Speaker 1>was reminded.

0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:12.840
<v Speaker 4>So he just tell us, Hey, when you get in here,

0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:15.320
<v Speaker 4>you can give me a hug. Please give me a hug.

0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:19.600
<v Speaker 4>You just Tom would just want a hug and wanted

0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:21.560
<v Speaker 4>to have a little bit of contact with us and

0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:25.520
<v Speaker 4>tell us that he loved us and how much he

0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:27.840
<v Speaker 4>appreciated us, you know, coming there.

0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Ron says, particularly his parents.

0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:34.359
<v Speaker 4>They were troopers, I mean driving you know, five six

0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:39.080
<v Speaker 4>hours one way, you know, and over years and years

0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:42.600
<v Speaker 4>they did that to support Tom and be there for

0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:47.440
<v Speaker 4>all of us. Really, if I could make a trip,

0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:49.840
<v Speaker 4>they would help pay for the expenses to make sure

0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:53.359
<v Speaker 4>that we could go visit Tom. And you know, it

0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:55.120
<v Speaker 4>was just it was hard. It was hard to see

0:24:55.160 --> 0:25:01.280
<v Speaker 4>him in those circumstances. But he always had such a

0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:04.200
<v Speaker 4>a great spirit about him when we'd go visit him

0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:06.159
<v Speaker 4>or when we talked to him on the phone, that

0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:09.440
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, how could this guy be going through everything

0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:13.320
<v Speaker 4>he's gone through and still had this a type of

0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 4>attitude and the spirit. That was probably the thing that

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:22.520
<v Speaker 4>you know, made us want to go visit him, even

0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:24.520
<v Speaker 4>though it wasn't a very fun place to visit.

0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:28.359
<v Speaker 1>But Tom was putting on a face. He says, he

0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:32.160
<v Speaker 1>didn't want his family, especially the boys worrying about him.

0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:39.360
<v Speaker 3>I actually had two instances where I was wanting to check.

0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:48.320
<v Speaker 9>Out, just couldn't couldn't take it anymore, and was severely

0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:49.960
<v Speaker 9>depressed by it all.

0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:50.680
<v Speaker 2>For sure.

0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:57.240
<v Speaker 3>I put a canteen bag rope over electrical conduit in

0:25:57.320 --> 0:25:59.480
<v Speaker 3>my cell and still water and tried and woke up.

0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:04.159
<v Speaker 3>The sharpness of the metal above the conduit cut it,

0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:07.719
<v Speaker 3>and I woke up unconscious with what remained of my

0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:14.840
<v Speaker 3>a tamthrope around my neck near the toilet in myself.

0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:16.560
<v Speaker 1>Your boys know that.

0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:18.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so.

0:26:19.160 --> 0:26:20.480
<v Speaker 1>They're gonna know now.

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm not proud proud of that fact, and I don't

0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:27.200
<v Speaker 3>want them to think that I, you know, was taking

0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:29.400
<v Speaker 3>the cower's way out. I was just in a dark

0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:36.160
<v Speaker 3>place and was missing them and my family so much.

0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:39.360
<v Speaker 1>But Tom decided he wasn't going to let depression win.

0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:41.760
<v Speaker 1>I want to ask you about the dog program. That

0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:44.800
<v Speaker 1>was something you credited to kind of saving you in there.

0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:50.920
<v Speaker 3>I worked as a mental health mentor, and after your

0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:54.560
<v Speaker 3>seg free there a year, I had the opportunity to

0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:59.679
<v Speaker 3>get in the dog program. I mainly worked with large

0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:02.439
<v Speaker 3>male pit bulls and some small pit bulls.

0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, mine too.

0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:07.959
<v Speaker 3>You know, seventy eighty pound big pit bulls were just

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:12.160
<v Speaker 3>so wonderful for my soul. While I was helping them

0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:22.359
<v Speaker 3>become adopted, I was enjoying the pleasure of training them,

0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:24.800
<v Speaker 3>and they got good homes and I got to have

0:27:24.840 --> 0:27:26.000
<v Speaker 3>a dog and myself.

0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:28.000
<v Speaker 6>So yeah, beat that.

0:27:28.000 --> 0:27:29.040
<v Speaker 2>That's good medicine.

0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Tom also started fighting again, but this time for his innocence.

0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:39.239
<v Speaker 8>Tom wrote to us a long time ago, more than

0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:41.280
<v Speaker 8>a decade ago, asking for our assistance.

0:27:41.800 --> 0:27:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Jim says when he and the Great North Innocence Project

0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:48.040
<v Speaker 1>started looking at Tom's case, something big stood out.

0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:52.400
<v Speaker 8>Doctor Lindsay Thomas, who was a medical examiner forensic pathologist

0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:56.120
<v Speaker 8>who testified at Tom's trial, was always convinced and remains

0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:58.720
<v Speaker 8>convinced to this day that Tom was innocent and that

0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:02.600
<v Speaker 8>the testimony against him at his trial, the forensic testimony,

0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:05.200
<v Speaker 8>was totally off base, and so she was a big

0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:09.040
<v Speaker 8>champion of Tom's from the beginning and convincing us that

0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:11.240
<v Speaker 8>his case was worth the look and something we needed

0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:12.080
<v Speaker 8>to be involved in.

0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:14.600
<v Speaker 1>But they had a big challenge the.

0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:18.200
<v Speaker 8>Way Minnesota law works in these cases. Once it's been

0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:21.600
<v Speaker 8>over two years since your conviction's final you can't even

0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:24.560
<v Speaker 8>get into court to present your new evidence unless you

0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:27.920
<v Speaker 8>can satisfy the court that it proves your innocence by

0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:31.040
<v Speaker 8>clear and convincing evidence. Now, how are you going to

0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:34.440
<v Speaker 8>do that? In Tom's case, where it's an entirely circumstantial case,

0:28:34.800 --> 0:28:37.800
<v Speaker 8>How can he prove that negative that he didn't cause

0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:40.120
<v Speaker 8>Jane's death. I challenge you to come up with the

0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:42.000
<v Speaker 8>evidence it's going to prove it. He's not going to

0:28:42.000 --> 0:28:44.560
<v Speaker 8>have DNA evidence. He's not going to show that somebody

0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:47.320
<v Speaker 8>else did it. The point is that no crime occurred

0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:49.360
<v Speaker 8>at all.

0:28:49.560 --> 0:28:54.360
<v Speaker 1>The years passed and Tom filed multiple post conviction reliefs,

0:28:55.200 --> 0:29:08.520
<v Speaker 1>all were denied. Tom's father passed in twenty fourteen, and

0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:11.440
<v Speaker 1>within a year his mom got really sick.

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:14.200
<v Speaker 4>The nursing home didn't want us to take her out

0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:19.000
<v Speaker 4>to go visit Tom, and they said no. She has

0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:21.960
<v Speaker 4>a hard time swallowing food and different things. She was

0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:25.000
<v Speaker 4>so frail. She weighed about ninety pounds. She just felt

0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:31.120
<v Speaker 4>like skin and bones. But she was determined that she

0:29:31.240 --> 0:29:32.440
<v Speaker 4>wanted to go see my brother.

0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:34.920
<v Speaker 1>So Ron took his mom to see Tom.

0:29:35.040 --> 0:29:37.040
<v Speaker 4>It was the last time he ever saw my mom.

0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:40.040
<v Speaker 1>Both of Tom's parents died while he was still in prison.

0:29:40.560 --> 0:29:45.360
<v Speaker 4>Was super hard. Knowing, you know, how hard they fought

0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:50.800
<v Speaker 4>to free Tom, and how amazing they were at supporting

0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:54.720
<v Speaker 4>all of our family and just you know, being so

0:29:55.400 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 4>strong to help us get through things was tragic.

0:30:02.320 --> 0:30:09.400
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, all right, hello everyone, My name's Keith Ellison. I'm

0:30:09.480 --> 0:30:12.400
<v Speaker 10>the Attorney General for the state of Minnesota.

0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Finally, in twenty twenty one, the Minnesota Conviction Review Unit

0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:19.440
<v Speaker 1>was established as a partnership between the Great North Innocence

0:30:19.480 --> 0:30:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Project and the Minnesota Attorney General's Office.

0:30:22.240 --> 0:30:26.440
<v Speaker 10>Every criminal case has room for error because the justice

0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:31.160
<v Speaker 10>system is run by human beings, and human beings make mistakes,

0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:35.840
<v Speaker 10>do the wrong thing, and don't always get it right.

0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:39.959
<v Speaker 1>Tom's case was selected to be reinvestigated.

0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:44.240
<v Speaker 8>We ended up with nine expert opinions. Nine of them

0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:47.560
<v Speaker 8>all said doctor McGee was wrong. They would never call

0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:51.480
<v Speaker 8>this a homicide. We got the who's who of forensic

0:30:51.520 --> 0:30:56.120
<v Speaker 8>pathologists with specific expertise in drowning. We came forward with

0:30:56.200 --> 0:31:00.120
<v Speaker 8>new evidence from new studies from recent years about the

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:03.840
<v Speaker 8>physical findings you would expect to see in accidental drowning victims,

0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:07.600
<v Speaker 8>which mapped on perfectly to what you saw in Jane's case.

0:31:07.880 --> 0:31:10.760
<v Speaker 1>They all concluded that she was not struck multiple times

0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:13.360
<v Speaker 1>with the boat. They found she was likely knocked out

0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:16.080
<v Speaker 1>by a single blow when she fell out of the boat,

0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:20.600
<v Speaker 1>or when the boat unintentionally hit her as Tom searched

0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:26.040
<v Speaker 1>for her, an accidental drowning. Like Tom said, Jim says

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:28.920
<v Speaker 1>that doctor McGee wasn't using science when he made his

0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:33.480
<v Speaker 1>homicide determination. He was working backwards from the police suspicions

0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:35.400
<v Speaker 1>to make his findings fit.

0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:39.320
<v Speaker 8>Totally unmoored from the way medical examiners should be doing

0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:39.880
<v Speaker 8>their job.

0:31:39.960 --> 0:31:43.560
<v Speaker 1>And McGee has a reputation, now, am I correct?

0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:47.160
<v Speaker 8>He does. A federal judge had actually found that McGee

0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:51.479
<v Speaker 8>had given misleading testimony in that case and noted the

0:31:51.480 --> 0:31:55.680
<v Speaker 8>fact that doctor McGee had a troubling pattern of providing

0:31:55.760 --> 0:31:59.680
<v Speaker 8>false or inaccurate testimony in court. And I'll even say,

0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:02.400
<v Speaker 8>for our organization, Great North Inistan's project, we are not

0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:06.960
<v Speaker 8>a large organization, but we've gotten three convictions vacated where

0:32:07.000 --> 0:32:09.880
<v Speaker 8>doctor McGee was the medical examiner who did the autopsy

0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:11.360
<v Speaker 8>and testified in their cases.

0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:16.960
<v Speaker 1>The investigation also uncovered a Brady violation. The prosecution withheld

0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:20.240
<v Speaker 1>a memo of a conversation with doctor McGee in which

0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:24.000
<v Speaker 1>he admits he's unsure if Jane was struck once or

0:32:24.120 --> 0:32:25.120
<v Speaker 1>multiple times.

0:32:25.200 --> 0:32:27.280
<v Speaker 8>This was totally different from what the state ends up

0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:31.040
<v Speaker 8>arguing at trial, which is this is premeditated murder because

0:32:31.080 --> 0:32:33.560
<v Speaker 8>we know she was struck multiple times.

0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:39.440
<v Speaker 1>Totally inconsistent with what doctor McGee had said earlier. After

0:32:39.480 --> 0:32:43.200
<v Speaker 1>twenty five years in prison, on January thirteenth, twenty twenty three,

0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:49.440
<v Speaker 1>a district court judge vacated Thomas Rhodes's murder conviction. However,

0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:53.080
<v Speaker 1>Tom is still a convicted felon. He agreed to an

0:32:53.120 --> 0:32:57.360
<v Speaker 1>Alfred plea for a lesser manslaughter conviction for driving with negligence.

0:32:58.040 --> 0:33:01.480
<v Speaker 1>The Alfred plea allowed Tom to maintain his innocence but

0:33:01.560 --> 0:33:05.000
<v Speaker 1>get out of prison right away, and at his age,

0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:10.080
<v Speaker 1>missing so much of his children's and now grandchildren's.

0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:12.239
<v Speaker 8>Life, he did what anyone in his situation would do

0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:14.280
<v Speaker 8>and he took the deal that was offered to him.

0:33:14.640 --> 0:33:16.320
<v Speaker 1>And that's why it still comes up on the record.

0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:18.479
<v Speaker 8>That will still come up on a record because it's

0:33:18.480 --> 0:33:24.320
<v Speaker 8>a felony conviction. Right for now, to working on that,

0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:27.080
<v Speaker 8>we'll see what happens.

0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Sneaky Tom was the first person released under the partnership

0:33:32.880 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 1>with the Minnesota Conviction Review Unit and the Great North

0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:37.920
<v Speaker 1>Innocence Project.

0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:39.960
<v Speaker 4>Was unbelievable to see him finally be able to walk

0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:43.960
<v Speaker 4>through those doors. Sorry to be a little sappy here,

0:33:44.320 --> 0:33:47.720
<v Speaker 4>it's a lot thinking back of all the things that

0:33:48.240 --> 0:33:53.480
<v Speaker 4>our family went through, all the things that Tom went through.

0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:56.000
<v Speaker 4>It's just it's hard. It's hard to relive that.

0:33:57.120 --> 0:34:03.360
<v Speaker 2>It was awesome. It was surreal. I just I couldn't

0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:05.040
<v Speaker 2>believe it. I was very emotional.

0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:06.440
<v Speaker 8>All of us were.

0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:08.279
<v Speaker 1>Jim, you've just been crying over there.

0:34:08.400 --> 0:34:11.360
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, don't look at me like is he sweating or

0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:17.279
<v Speaker 8>is it tears? This guy gets every time. He's the

0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:19.160
<v Speaker 8>worst tissues.

0:34:20.080 --> 0:34:22.759
<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize I was going to get this emotional.

0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:26.799
<v Speaker 3>Jim and the people at the Innisen's Project had been

0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:30.080
<v Speaker 3>there for me in ways I could have never imagined.

0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:32.880
<v Speaker 1>While Tom was in prison, he took up art to

0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:33.680
<v Speaker 1>help survive.

0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:36.560
<v Speaker 3>I had about two hundred and fifty paintings. I painted

0:34:36.680 --> 0:34:42.520
<v Speaker 3>places like the favorite road in the country, to where

0:34:42.520 --> 0:34:46.880
<v Speaker 3>we mushroom hunted as a little boy, to things I

0:34:46.920 --> 0:34:53.560
<v Speaker 3>did with my sons and and our life animals, a

0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:55.080
<v Speaker 3>lot of animal art.

0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:58.120
<v Speaker 1>Jim and folks of the Great North Innocence Project thought

0:34:58.560 --> 0:35:00.560
<v Speaker 1>since Tom has struggled to find it job with his

0:35:00.600 --> 0:35:01.759
<v Speaker 1>felony conviction.

0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:07.440
<v Speaker 3>And unlike the greedy person they portrayed, did not spend

0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:11.120
<v Speaker 3>any money from my house, from any of my assets.

0:35:11.200 --> 0:35:13.440
<v Speaker 3>I put it in a trust for my son's education.

0:35:13.640 --> 0:35:16.480
<v Speaker 3>Make sure that they got an education, and we're taken

0:35:16.520 --> 0:35:16.840
<v Speaker 3>care of.

0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Why not get Tom's art out of storage and sell it.

0:35:21.040 --> 0:35:26.120
<v Speaker 3>They helped me put a business together called Thomas D. Galleries,

0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:33.120
<v Speaker 3>and I'm selling prints and originals and I'm been taking

0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:38.839
<v Speaker 3>pictures of some animals and looking forward to maybe doing

0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:42.440
<v Speaker 3>some commissions of people's pets and stuff as well.

0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:45.799
<v Speaker 1>Tom struggles with PTSD from his time in prison, but

0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:49.640
<v Speaker 1>after almost two years of freedom, he's feeling better adjusted.

0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:52.359
<v Speaker 3>I can really enjoy this freedom where I went through

0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:56.880
<v Speaker 3>a lot this last for the first year. But I

0:35:56.920 --> 0:35:59.560
<v Speaker 3>just want to credit, you know, people that have been

0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:04.080
<v Speaker 3>there for me, like the Great North Innisance Project, my son's,

0:36:05.200 --> 0:36:11.120
<v Speaker 3>my friends, and I have six grandkids and I'm just

0:36:11.320 --> 0:36:15.239
<v Speaker 3>loving that I can have a relationship with them outside

0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:16.760
<v Speaker 3>of a prison visit room.

0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:20.880
<v Speaker 1>And Tom is especially just loving being free.

0:36:21.200 --> 0:36:23.560
<v Speaker 3>One of my biggest toys is just being able to

0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:27.000
<v Speaker 3>hop in my truck, my old truck, and just go

0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:31.440
<v Speaker 3>someplace when I want to, you know, not having limitations.

0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:43.320
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.

0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:46.600
<v Speaker 1>Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the

0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:49.280
<v Speaker 1>links in the episode description to see how you can help.

0:36:49.600 --> 0:36:53.759
<v Speaker 1>And please consider checking out Tom's gallery Thomas D. Galleries

0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:56.960
<v Speaker 1>to support him in his transition to freedom. Go to

0:36:57.040 --> 0:37:00.520
<v Speaker 1>Thomas D. Galleries dot com or check out the link

0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:03.799
<v Speaker 1>in our episode description. This episode was written by me

0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Maggie Freeling, with story editing and sound designed by senior

0:37:07.200 --> 0:37:11.480
<v Speaker 1>producer Rebecca Ibata. Our producer is Kathleen Fink. Our researcher

0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:14.960
<v Speaker 1>is Shelby Sorels, with mixing by Josh Allen and additional

0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:18.720
<v Speaker 1>production help by Jeff Cliburn and Connor Hall. Executive producers

0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:22.120
<v Speaker 1>are Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wortis. The music

0:37:22.239 --> 0:37:25.799
<v Speaker 1>is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Make

0:37:25.840 --> 0:37:28.359
<v Speaker 1>sure to follow us on all social media platforms at

0:37:28.440 --> 0:37:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also

0:37:31.600 --> 0:37:35.360
<v Speaker 1>follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling Wrongful Conviction

0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:37.879
<v Speaker 1>with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for Good

0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:41.799
<v Speaker 1>Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One. And a

0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:44.839
<v Speaker 1>note on programming, We're taking Monday off next week and

0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:48.120
<v Speaker 1>re airing an interview between Jason Flamm and Keith Washington

0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:57.600
<v Speaker 1>in honor of Veterans Day.