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Speaker 1: Hey, what a book ame in? I'm Doug, got me.

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Speaker 1: This is all all. We have part two coming up

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Speaker 1: for you of Jason Beltzer, and Jason is in addition

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Speaker 1: to being an attorney and teaching about all of these things,

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Speaker 1: he's I guess you could say, ahead of the curve

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Speaker 1: with Nil and his company represents universities as well as athletes.

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Speaker 1: So it's all part of this bigger conversation. And what's

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Speaker 1: interesting is this was recorded last week, right the first

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Speaker 1: week in December. Now the second full week in December,

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Speaker 1: we get news today that there's a judge in West

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Speaker 1: Virginia which granted a fourteen day stay on the rulings

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Speaker 1: for two time transfers, specifically in West Virginia. But now

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Speaker 1: the NCAA is allowing all student athletes and a second

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Speaker 1: transfer during this period of time to play. And this

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Speaker 1: is crazy. I actually feel bad for the NCAA. And

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Speaker 1: I've been, as most of you know, I've been a

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Speaker 1: supporter of the idea of amateurism, the idea of educating

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Speaker 1: more people than would ever get an opportunity. And you

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Speaker 1: know I understand that with the times and with the

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Speaker 1: exploding finances and ability to generate more revenue that athletes

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Speaker 1: student athletes can be taken care of better. But I

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Speaker 1: also knew what and IO would turn out to be,

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Speaker 1: which is paid for play. But this is where I

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Speaker 1: feel really bad for the NCAA. This was a rule

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Speaker 1: that I can't think of a coach, administrator, assistant coach

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Speaker 1: didn't want in place where your second transfer. Again, Remember, like,

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Speaker 1: here's what's bullshit about all this. No one said of

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Speaker 1: your transfer a second time, you can't play or beyond scholarship,

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Speaker 1: but you would have to sit for a year, which

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Speaker 1: there is no negatives there. And if you're a you're

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Speaker 1: go to your third school. What's the difference in sitting

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Speaker 1: a year when you didn't sit in junior, first and

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Speaker 1: second school. But the real craziness to this is schools

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Speaker 1: voted on this. It was approved and a champion really

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes by most coat by coaches and by administrators.

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Speaker 1: Many of the same coaches and administrators, especially coaches who

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Speaker 1: wanted this push for it were the ones like Matt Brown.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is where coaches are so full of

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Speaker 1: shit that they do themselves in a no justice that

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Speaker 1: no one believes the word they say. Most of them

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Speaker 1: are not, But like take Mack Brown. There are quotes

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Speaker 1: from him saying how the system had to change and

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Speaker 1: that there needed to be some guardrails in place, especially

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Speaker 1: for second time transfers. That he has a wide receiver

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Speaker 1: who's a two time transfer and he wants to play

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Speaker 1: right away. Unc writes a nasty letter towards the NZA,

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Speaker 1: and eventually tes Walker gets to play, right I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's craziness. So now what now the

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Speaker 1: NCAA is unofficially or officially powerless. I mean again, like,

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Speaker 1: what what is the purpose of having a governing body

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Speaker 1: made up of voting members? If you approve a rule

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Speaker 1: and six months into the rule being in place, the

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Speaker 1: court comes in like nah. And what it's pushing us

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Speaker 1: towards is what Jason is discussing in the spot, which

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Speaker 1: is professionalization of amateur athletics. And I'm going to like,

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Speaker 1: you'll be able to draw this podcast up anytime you want.

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Speaker 1: It's already a fucking mess. It's going to be a disaster.

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Speaker 1: And what's going to happen, as Jason has point out,

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Speaker 1: is yeah, there'll be some kids that make money, and

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Speaker 1: agents will make lots of money, and lawyers will make money,

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Speaker 1: and accountants will make money. But what will happen is

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Speaker 1: one of two things, and probably both one. Eventually there'll

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Speaker 1: be some sort of collective bargaining, because that's essentially what's

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Speaker 1: being said here, right that these are basically non competes.

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Speaker 1: And but what is the purpose of having a contract

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Speaker 1: you signed with the school for a scholarship or even

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Speaker 1: for nil, and yet there's no non competes in them.

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Speaker 1: What business has that or what scholarship has that? I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but apparently you have to have a signed

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Speaker 1: non compete. In order to have a sign non compete,

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Speaker 1: you're probably gonna have to have some sort of collective bargaining. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing about collective bargaining. You don't just get

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Speaker 1: what you want right, like, oh, we want this, we

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Speaker 1: want that, Like it'll just worked that way. And as

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Speaker 1: much as we think that schools and the NCAA or whoever,

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Speaker 1: however the negotiation takes place, well, ACQUI ask to the

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Speaker 1: student athlete. The truth is, at some point they'll put

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Speaker 1: their feet down and go, now, we're not doing it.

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Speaker 1: And here's the problem with it from the student athlete's perspective.

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Speaker 1: In professional sports, go in track Baseball is said to

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Speaker 1: have the strongest union, although their last two deals have

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Speaker 1: not nearly been as strong as the past. Football's union,

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Speaker 1: for example, cowers constantly to the NFL, and they have

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Speaker 1: a ten year collective our agreement. Basketball the same. Now,

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Speaker 1: what most people see is how much money the top

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Speaker 1: end guys are making, and it's a lot. It's a lot,

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Speaker 1: but it's all a respective ratio of what they're bringing in.

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Speaker 1: And it's going to be interesting because you do have

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Speaker 1: Title nine with Jason addresses in this pod and the

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Speaker 1: previous pod. You know, you do have this tax exempt

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Speaker 1: status that college sports operates under, and you have these

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Speaker 1: lack of noncompetes. But here's the bigger the biggest issue,

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Speaker 1: I believe, in addition to the fact that nobody wants

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Speaker 1: to pay taxes and there's Title nine and that's going

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Speaker 1: to be a mess to kind of sort through, the

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Speaker 1: biggest issue is that if the players say hey, or

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Speaker 1: the schools say that this is our offer, take it

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Speaker 1: or leave it. Do you really think that college football

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Speaker 1: players and college basketball players are going to walk away

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Speaker 1: from the offer. Let me give you a hint. The

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Speaker 1: answer is no, because all of these deals that get

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Speaker 1: done in any professional support, they focus on the rank

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Speaker 1: and file because that's the vast majority of the kids,

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Speaker 1: and so the rank and file will likely be well

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Speaker 1: compensated across the board to rank and file will get

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Speaker 1: some sort of extended insurance. After they get done in college,

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Speaker 1: the rank and file will have in probably numerous benefits

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Speaker 1: and some guardrails so that they can transfer and not

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Speaker 1: set out or when they can actually make the nil

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Speaker 1: or how much academics has to do with it. They

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Speaker 1: may even have to pay for their own education as

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Speaker 1: well as the taxes and the benefits they receive. But

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Speaker 1: if they say no, if the colleges say no, this

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Speaker 1: is it. You think that again, we're not talking about

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Speaker 1: the ten to fifteen kids that can go and play

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Speaker 1: in a G league, or they can go and play

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Speaker 1: overseas or for overtime eleague. Even if we take that

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Speaker 1: as the top kids, there are three hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: plus Division one schools in men's college basketball. There are

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Speaker 1: thirteen scholarships a pop. You do the math. You think

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Speaker 1: all those kids are sitting and not collecting a penny

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Speaker 1: and not going to school. Yeah, that doesn't happen. Doesn't happen?

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Speaker 1: Football doesn't hapen in basketball. So we're at a bit

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Speaker 1: of a crossroads. And as much as this interview was

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Speaker 1: kind of epic foreshadowing, the foreshadowing is for things that

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Speaker 1: look to be likely to come. Here's part two of

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Speaker 1: my discussion with Jason Belzer. When somebody comes to you,

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Speaker 1: as school comes to you at what do you say,

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Speaker 1: Just give me your collective, give me how you do it,

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Speaker 1: and we'll take care of the rest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, when we still speak to an institution, whether

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Speaker 2: it's an institution that has an existing collective or one

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Speaker 2: that doesn't, and I'll give you a great example, two

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Speaker 2: different examples. We just launched the collective at Syracuse on

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Speaker 2: behalf of the university of the university that didn't really

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Speaker 2: have one, Whereas at vanderbil we took over an existing

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Speaker 2: collective that was a nonprofit and are transforming it into

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Speaker 2: commercialized collective. When we go to any institution, we say

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Speaker 2: that there is a total addressable market for nil at

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Speaker 2: that institution. And what that means is that if we

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Speaker 2: took every dollar that every student athlete could make at

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Speaker 2: that school, put it all together, we get a number.

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Speaker 2: We actually have a formula for figuring that out and

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Speaker 2: we break that up into three buckets of revenue. Bucket

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Speaker 2: number one is what we classify as a member. These

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Speaker 2: are usually fans and alumni that are paying anywhere between

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Speaker 2: ten to fifty one hundred dollars a month to be

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Speaker 2: part of a club to have access to content, experiences, merchandise,

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Speaker 2: and other elements. So no different than when you pay

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Speaker 2: for your Netflix description or your Costco membership. At Oklahoma

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Speaker 2: Crimson and Cream, our average member pays forty one dollars

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Speaker 2: a month to be a member of Crimson and c

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Speaker 2: and for that we have more than two thousand people

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Speaker 2: that are part of that membership program. Our belief is

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Speaker 2: that at every power five we can probably average around

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Speaker 2: ten thousand people. We do the math on that. At

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Speaker 2: twenty five bucks a month, that's more than three and

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Speaker 2: a half million dollars a year in revenue. The second

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Speaker 2: bucket are what we classify as brands businesses, corporations, local businesses,

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Speaker 2: regional and state businesses, and then national brands that want

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Speaker 2: to do real NIL work with student athletes. And then

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Speaker 2: the third are the donors. Right that's the tail wagging

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Speaker 2: the dog in NIL right now. And what we do

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Speaker 2: is instead of just taking the donor money and signing

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Speaker 2: a kid, and then not giving a shit, we sign

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Speaker 2: the student athlete to a retainered contract. So at owe

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Speaker 2: you all eighty five football players, all fifteen men's basketball players,

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Speaker 2: and all twenty softball players are under a retainer with us.

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Speaker 2: They owe us a certain number of social media posts.

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Speaker 2: Every football player at Oklahoma receives a minimum of twenty

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Speaker 2: four thousand and right in guaranteed money from US, and

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Speaker 2: because of that, they give us eighteen social media posts,

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Speaker 2: ten appearances, fifty autographs, as well as usage of their name,

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Speaker 2: image and likeness. And so what we do is we

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Speaker 2: sell those assets back into the marketplace. I did a

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Speaker 2: deal with Danny Stutzman and Taco Bell and Snickers. I

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Speaker 2: did a deal for every single football, men's and women's

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Speaker 2: basketball player and softball player at Oe. You with House

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Speaker 2: Smith restaurant group. I'm sure Doug you made Knowle Smith

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Speaker 2: directly eaten at his restaurants. Anytime you got Oklahoma. Every

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Speaker 2: kid got five hundred dollars for two social media posts,

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Speaker 2: all organic pre sold. That money comes back to the

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Speaker 2: university or in this case, the collective, not as incremental

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Speaker 2: revenue to the student athlete, but it comes back into

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Speaker 2: the budget. We bought the asset from the student athlete,

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Speaker 2: the student athlete activated the asset with us, and then

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Speaker 2: we have recouped that money to put back into the collective.

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Speaker 2: I did a deal with Paramount CBS to promote the

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Speaker 2: new season of Survivor. We had one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: three student athletes from sixteen different universities, including Oklahoma. We

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Speaker 2: had kids from LMU and Santa Clara who we work

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Speaker 2: with all across the country, and they did a social post.

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Speaker 2: It was sold at a predetermined rate card somewhere between

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Speaker 2: seventy five to two hundred and fifty dollars per post,

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Speaker 2: and that was their job for that week or that

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Speaker 2: month that they were getting compensated by us, and that

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Speaker 2: money has now since been returned to their respective collective

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Speaker 2: to be deployed in the future for whatever That is

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Speaker 2: what the model will look like here period end the

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Speaker 2: story right when we go to revshare, if a school

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Speaker 2: is going to go prepurchase the rights of the student athlete,

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Speaker 2: hopefully we'll be organizations like ours, probably will include mmrs

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Speaker 2: like lear Field and Playfly that will be going out

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Speaker 2: and reselling that inventory to brands and businesses as part

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Speaker 2: of a larger portfolio. No different than selling the power

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Speaker 2: of the student athlete social media feed to push content,

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Speaker 2: to push highlights. That's what this is. It's not rocket science.

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Speaker 2: Just have a lot of different people organizing things in

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Speaker 2: a lot of different ways, and you need somebody that

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Speaker 2: can come in and slowly do it. Given enough time,

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Speaker 2: we would be able to figure it out. You know,

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Speaker 2: we have forty plus schools, but this thing is moving

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Speaker 2: so fast that I don't know how quickly we're going

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Speaker 2: to be able to make it figure it out before

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Speaker 2: the court's decide or Congress decides to do something stupid.

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Speaker 1: What's the downside?

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Speaker 2: There is no downside for the student athlete. The downside

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Speaker 2: is for the coaches, the administrators who are making millions

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Speaker 2: and millions of dollars right now, who don't want to

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Speaker 2: lose that money. I mean, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: if there's if tomorrow we were forced to move into

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Speaker 2: revenue share, then every football coach, every basketball coach is

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Speaker 2: going to have to take a salary cut, Every administrator

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Speaker 2: is going to have to take a salary cut. Do

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Speaker 2: you think those people want that? Maybe some of the

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Speaker 2: coaches do, right. I think some of the coaches at

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Speaker 2: this point are just tired. But if you're a lifelong

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Speaker 2: administrator and you're an AD making a million dollars a

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Speaker 2: year or whatever it is, do you want to lose

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Speaker 2: out on that money?

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Speaker 1: How many administrators? How many administrators make that kind of one.

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Speaker 2: In the Power five? Well, in the Power four, I

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Speaker 2: don't think there's an administrator in the Power four that's

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Speaker 2: making less than half a million dollars at this point.

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, but but but like, look, we're reasonable people.

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Speaker 1: If you're a you're talking about only afletic vectors. There

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Speaker 1: is nobody else making athlete out.

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Speaker 2: Okay, how many football coaches are making ten million dollars?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that question that the football coach thing

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Speaker 1: has exploded? The problem is that, just like everywhere else

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Speaker 1: in life, there's really no middle class, right, And you know,

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Speaker 1: you're saying administrators when most the administrators don't make anything,

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Speaker 1: and then even the ads make a million dollars. Considering

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Speaker 1: how much you're raising and managing and how many years

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Speaker 1: it takes in the business to get to that place.

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Speaker 1: It's not like you fell out of bed and you're

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Speaker 1: making a million. Whereas now you're asking players to players

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Speaker 1: are going to be coached by coaches who make less

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Speaker 1: money than them in some cases, and there is no

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Speaker 1: to this point, there is no true obligating contract, you

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Speaker 1: know where. I mean, one of the things that I

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Speaker 1: think you're pretty realistic about is if you're really an employee,

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Speaker 1: it's not all a win for the student athlete, right

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Speaker 1: because there are there are some there's gonna be some

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Speaker 1: guardrails there. And I'm just wondering, like, obviously the Olympic

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Speaker 1: sports are going to get are going to really struggle,

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Speaker 1: especially at the non SEC Big ten schools. They just

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Speaker 1: don't They just don't have the money there. The schools

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Speaker 1: like the Vanderbilts, the Northwesterns, they're going to continue to struggle,

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Speaker 1: I think. But then the other part who it is,

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Speaker 1: will will this change the transfer portal and the ability

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Speaker 1: for players to essentially become free agents at a drop

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Speaker 1: of the hat.

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Speaker 2: Well, So, if you're a student athlete, and I think

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Speaker 2: you and I are on the same page with this,

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Speaker 2: we don't want them as employees, and a student athlete

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Speaker 2: shouldn't want to be an employee because then you're going

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Speaker 2: to number one, your tuition is going to be taxable income.

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Speaker 2: And many schools, let's just say you're going to play

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Speaker 2: a usc they're going to say, okay, we just won't

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Speaker 2: pay your tuition and you will give you one hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars and you can pay your tuition yourself. Right,

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Speaker 2: So that's number one. Number two, you can be fired,

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Speaker 2: and that's not something people want. What student athletes want

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Speaker 2: in an optimal world is a revenue share without being

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Speaker 2: deemed that employee.

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Speaker 1: Give us a cut, right, they want, right, you want

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Speaker 1: the best of both worlds. But again that doesn't. You

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Speaker 1: have a lot of people in your position pushing towards

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Speaker 1: them employee model, and they they're not thinking about the

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Speaker 1: downside too. It.

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Speaker 2: Well, the lawyers don't care. The lawyers just want to

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Speaker 2: get paid. I mean, look at this lawsuit that was

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Speaker 2: filed at Oregon last week. We know we just said,

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Speaker 2: you just said it that Olympic sports, particularly women's sports,

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Speaker 2: are in deep shit right when this the flips. And

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Speaker 2: yet you have a school like Oregon that can probably

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Speaker 2: afford to do these things. Here are people suing not

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Speaker 2: realizing that this new era of what's going to happen

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Speaker 2: is going to be the worst thing that ever happens

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Speaker 2: to women's sports. We are at peak women's sports in

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Speaker 2: this country. I can tell you that the Olympic committees

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Speaker 2: and the individual governing bodies are deathly afraid of what

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Speaker 2: may happen. How are we going to be able to

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Speaker 2: have a competitive Olympic program? Right? That's why these you know,

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Speaker 2: organizations were put together in the first place. If Olympic

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Speaker 2: sports are going to get slashed because these schools can't afford,

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Speaker 2: it just doesn't make sense. And so no school that

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Speaker 2: can make money from their football program is going to

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Speaker 2: not play high level football, but they will immediately go

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Speaker 2: and cut whatever sports they need to cut to be

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Speaker 2: able to finance it. And I wouldn't be surprised if

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Speaker 2: we have scenarios where some school plays football and basketball

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Speaker 2: on the men's side and then they got a couple

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Speaker 2: of women's sports and every men's tennis and golf and

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Speaker 2: it's gone. Who needs it? Right?

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Speaker 1: I just don't know if that ever happens, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: I understand that it's trending that way, but to get

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Speaker 1: to that place, you know, you know, how like it

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Speaker 1: such is the NCAA. But these schools, they can't stomach

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Speaker 1: cutting these sports. They can't stomach the bad press. I

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Speaker 1: mean they want to.

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Speaker 2: Says these as student athletes are employees and you must

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Speaker 2: collectively bargain. They will not have a choice. They will

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Speaker 2: have to come up with this money. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Can they go tap their endowments. There are big rules

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Speaker 2: around that, but sure if all of a sudden, I

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Speaker 2: got to go loan some money against my endowment potentially.

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Speaker 2: But that's why I believe that private equity will play

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Speaker 2: a big role in this. In fact, they'll come to

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Speaker 2: the rescue. Then that's what it is. I mean, what

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Speaker 2: happens if this goes down and the Saudi's come in

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Speaker 2: and they say, yeah, well we'll loan you guys a

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Speaker 2: billion dollars, we'll take care of it. What happens if

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Speaker 2: they lose this Johnson case and there's treble damages where

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Speaker 2: they they're going to come up with the multi billion

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Speaker 2: dollar damages and then have to figure out how to

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Speaker 2: go support their other programs at the same time while

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Speaker 2: having to Each school is going to have to go

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Speaker 2: pay because all the schools are co defendants, so all

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Speaker 2: the power for schools are going to have to come

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Speaker 2: up with their one hundred million dollars to pay the damages,

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Speaker 2: and then they're also going to have to go figure

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Speaker 2: out how to pay their athletes as in revenue share,

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Speaker 2: and they're going to have to figure out how to

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Speaker 2: support their other sports. That is what is about to happen.

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Speaker 2: That's why I say we are in a tumultuous period.

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Speaker 2: But what is going to happen is going to be

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Speaker 2: violent because there's going to be some really tough decisions

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Speaker 2: and I don't know, maybe Congress bails out college sports

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Speaker 2: and they say, hey, we're going to give everybody a

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Speaker 2: billion dollars to figure this out. You're right, but I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't bet on that.

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Speaker 3: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

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Speaker 3: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio

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Speaker 3: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to

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Speaker 3: listen live.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned the tax free status. I know that that's

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Speaker 1: a big scary, scary word to lose. You know, with

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Speaker 1: all of these schools is the ability to to to

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Speaker 1: not have to pay taxes on the revenue. And then

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Speaker 1: and then there's the there's the athletes are going to

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Speaker 1: have to pay taxes. There's the how do you make

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Speaker 1: them pay for the education? Piece? Right, it's like a

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Speaker 1: memory thing. That part gets really kind of murky. So

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Speaker 1: are you of the mindset that there's going to be

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Speaker 1: a breakoff or does this keep everybody together? But the

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Speaker 1: breakoff is just in schools that can't really compete because

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Speaker 1: they don't have the money.

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Speaker 2: Well, what is the breakoff? Right? I mean, go look

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Speaker 2: at the football rankings for this past week. We got Michigan, Washington, Texas, Alabama,

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Speaker 2: Florida State, Georgia, Ohio State, Oregon, Missouri, Penn State, Ole,

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Speaker 2: miss Oklahoma, LSU. All of these schools, these the top

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Speaker 2: thirteen schools are going to be in two conferences next year.

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Speaker 2: So what is the breakoff? I mean, if you have

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Speaker 2: the top forty schools leave, does it matter at that point?

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Speaker 2: They go out from underneath the NCAA. But does anything

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Speaker 2: really change other than what the football and basketball structures

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Speaker 2: look like. No, I mean it's already there. We already

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Speaker 2: have the super conferences. That's literally where we are sitting out.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: You know this, Doug, that those schools, those top thirteen

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Speaker 2: schools are deploying more money in nil than the vast

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Speaker 2: majority of anybody else already paying their kids. It's just

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Speaker 2: not being done over the table. It's still being done

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Speaker 2: under the table in a way.

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Speaker 1: What did you think of Charlie Baker's proposal? Is that

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Speaker 1: is that along lines that's the eight to ten million

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Speaker 1: dollars is do you do you think?

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Speaker 2: I think the proposal as written is nonsense, and while

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Speaker 2: I appreciate the effort, number one. So let's break down

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Speaker 2: the proposal the most important parts of it. First part

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Speaker 2: of the proposal is that schools, in order to be

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Speaker 2: part of this new division where they get to make

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Speaker 2: rules and decide what they want to do and contract

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Speaker 2: directly with their student athletes for nil, have to pay

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Speaker 2: a minimum of thirty thousand dollars to fifty percent of

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Speaker 2: the athletes on their at their school, of which twenty

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Speaker 2: five percent can go to men and twenty five percent

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Speaker 2: can go to women. So essentially, they have to pay

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Speaker 2: three million dollars for football or for or men's sports.

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Speaker 2: But if they do that, they have to pay three

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Speaker 2: million dollars for women's sports. And if they want to

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Speaker 2: pay football more, they have to give more to women.

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Speaker 2: How is that going to work? And why would a

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Speaker 2: school like Texas who gets to pay football ten million

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Speaker 2: dollars right now without paying anything to women's sports or

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Speaker 2: Alabama or anyone else. Ninety seven percent of collective money

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Speaker 2: goes to men's sports. By the way, we know this

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Speaker 2: because we run more schools than anybody else. We have

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Speaker 2: that information. Ninety seven percent goes to men. Why all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden am I going to be forced to

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Speaker 2: have to share that money with the women under this

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Speaker 2: new moniker? And then the second question is if I'm

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Speaker 2: a football or a basketball player, now You're going to

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Speaker 2: share even more of the revenue that I'm generating with

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Speaker 2: non revenue sports, specifically women's sports. Why would I ever

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Speaker 2: go for that as a football or basketball player. Doesn't

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Speaker 2: make any sense. We want to get as much money

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Speaker 2: into our pie if we're generating, and we want as

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Speaker 2: much of the pie as we can get. Now you're

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Speaker 2: saying fifty percent has to go to females because of equity.

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Speaker 2: That's nonsense. That there's no logical economic argument to say

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Speaker 2: that that is a real system that anybody is going

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Speaker 2: to go towards. Why wouldn't the SEC and the Big

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Speaker 2: ten just be like, uh, yeah, we're going to be good.

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Speaker 2: We're just gonna go do our own thing, and we're

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Speaker 2: not going to follow that stupid rule because we want

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Speaker 2: to be part of the nc DOUBLEA. Who gives, who cares?

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Speaker 2: We can just go do it.

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Speaker 1: It's part of the NCUBA as much as the fear

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Speaker 1: of title nine and the appearance of not you know again,

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Speaker 1: So much of it is about appearance, you know. They

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Speaker 1: it's just like any.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure this A and M cares a lot about

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Speaker 2: appearances after firing Jimbo.

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Speaker 1: Fisher they don't. But I'm telling you, like again, administrators,

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Speaker 1: I mean, how many of these sports programs have had

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Speaker 1: sports that are canceled Then people go rally to save it,

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Speaker 1: and they kind of patch it together and save it,

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Speaker 1: knowing that if it's run like a business, they'd be cut.

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Speaker 1: They'd all be cut, they lose money. But we do

433
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: it be out of fear of Title nine and to

434
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: make it look good.

435
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: Right. Remember, Title nine doesn't matter if the athletes are employees.

436
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: If I made eighty five football players employees, that they

437
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 2: longer factor into my title nine equation, which is why

438
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: it actually for the student athlete, we don't want them

439
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: to be employees, right, But for the school, Hey, if

440
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 2: I don't have to have eighty five corresponding scholarships. On

441
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: the female side, I can maybe balance my budget. There

442
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 2: is no requirement whatsoever. It's the same reason why the

443
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: women's basketball coach at Oklahoma State mates a fourth or

444
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: fifth of what Mike does on the men's side. Title

445
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: nine is equal opportunity, but market rate is I got

446
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: to pay the basketball coach, the men's coach a lot

447
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 2: more than the women's coach. Same concept. Maybe you still

448
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: have to have the sport, but you know, we can

449
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: gut it. We can do whatever we want. They're employees.

450
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 2: One is an ployee when is a student athlete? Won't

451
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 2: matter what. What college athletics doesn't want is they don't

452
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 2: want to have to deal with collective bargaining because you

453
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: get to collect the bargaining. Could be that fifty percent

454
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 2: of the money has to go to the football players,

455
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 2: and that is kind of straphic.

456
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: That that can only be corere like they're not they

457
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: could ask for fifty percent, they're not getting fifty percent, right, Well.

458
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 2: It's a bargaining, right, who's gonna force it? Right? Who's

459
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 2: going to organize them? And if they say we sit,

460
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 2: we got a problem. Well, there's not lockouts in pro sports.

461
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: There are, but the reason that the owners always win

462
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: is they have the money. Sure, right, they have they

463
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: they have the money, and you're talking about kids. It's

464
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: like at the end of the day, like right, like

465
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: the NFL deals, the NFL new tenure deal a good deal,

466
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: probably not for the top you know, one percent or

467
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: five percent, but for the rank and file. And you're

468
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: going to have a lot of rank in here that

469
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: will say, like, look, if they'll gets here, we got nothing.

470
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: So taking something is better than taking nothing regards to

471
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 1: the fact that they're not going to get nothing again, agreed.

472
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: So I mean it's one of those it reads really

473
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: good to think they could hold out, they could sit out,

474
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: But the problem with that is it all looks the

475
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: same to me. They all lock out, set out until

476
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 1: somebody says, hey, you're not getting your check so and

477
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: oh yeah, by the way, additionally, like they're not unionized yet,

478
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: there will be plenty of people that will take whatever

479
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: is given. And I would guess you'll have a year

480
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 1: where you'll have some of the best athletes you know,

481
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: threatening to sit by the wayside, and they probably won't

482
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: because they're already making money and right and they're like,

483
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: well I rocked the boat. I'm good and the rank

484
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: and file will want to take whatever deals presented to them.

485
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: I don't disagree, but it's just a whole other set

486
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: of complicated issues. But we're not even there yet. We

487
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 2: got to figure out this first before we get to.

488
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: Is there any other part element of it we have

489
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: not discussed, you.

490
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,479
Speaker 2: Know, I just want to re emphasize that when you

491
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 2: get and this is a warning for the industry, is

492
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: that if private equity gets involved, private equity is business.

493
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 2: They want return on their investment. Correct, And so if

494
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 2: you hire a coach and he doesn't work out, you're fired.

495
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: You don't get to go spend seventy five million dollars

496
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: to buy somebody out and go hire somebody else. Doesn't

497
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: work like that. And the vast majority of people in

498
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 2: college athletics, and we know a lot of them, they're

499
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 2: good people, but they work in college athletics not because

500
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 2: they want to work in a revenue environment. They want

501
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: it to work in an amateur environment. They're not built,

502
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: nor do they have the experience to work in that

503
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 2: type of demanding environment where every dollar counts. And so

504
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: unfortunately that's where we're headed. Right where you've got to

505
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: be able to perform and this rinky dinky, yeah coach

506
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 2: doesn't work out, I'll just fire him and raise a

507
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: whole bunch of money and it doesn't happen. Right, People

508
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: want return on their investment, especially if it's a pe firm,

509
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 2: not a you know, billionaire owner. It's not Mark Cuban,

510
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: who all right, I'll just go buy my coach out

511
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: and go hire somebody else out tomorrow.

512
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think that's I think that's the

513
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: question is do more kids actually get exploited this way

514
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 1: because you know they they're not as good as advertised

515
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: and you get money too soon, and how do you

516
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: react to it? I think that's that's kind of the fear,

517
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: is what what does it look like to them? It's

518
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: the same issue with the multiple transfers, like you get

519
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: done playing and all right, who's your school? Who do

520
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: you call when you need an actual job? And how

521
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: do you adjust to the fact that you're probably going

522
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: to make more in college sports than you are with

523
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: your first job, maybe in your second job. And that's

524
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: the tough adjustment for a lot of people. So that

525
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: part to it is, well.

526
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: The simple concept to fix the portal issues, to let

527
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: let collective sign multi year agreements and lock people in

528
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: right period. In the story, the problem solved if I

529
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: could have signed Dylan Gabriel. I had Dylan Gabriel onto

530
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: a contract this year Dyllian decided to transfer. If I

531
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 2: had him under a contract for two years and he

532
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: breached the contract, I can still sue him, but I

533
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: can at least have locked him in for so many years.

534
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: And if Brett Vennerable said hey, we want to move

535
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 2: on from Dylan because we want to go work and

536
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: have Jackson Arnold start, okay, you still got to pay

537
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: Dylan right, that is what it is, or let him

538
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: out of his contract.

539
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: Jason's fascinating stuff, man, and perfectly timely considering the news

540
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: today of the NCAA's proposal. I really appreciate joining me.

541
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate you having me, Doug.

542
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: That's it for my discussion with Jason Belzer, an incredibly

543
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: fascinating guy. You can find him on social media. That's

544
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: at Jason Belzer b e l Z e R. In

545
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: the meantime, I appreciate you listening. Remember The Doug Gottlieb

546
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: Show is daily three to five eastern twelve two Pacific

547
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: on Fox Sport Trading on foxport trade dot Com with

548
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball