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Speaker 1: Burn attention Beck to Gast listeners.

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Speaker 2: We're going on tour.

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Speaker 1: We really are. And it's not just any tour. It's

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Speaker 1: a tour in the UK and it's a tour where

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Speaker 1: we are covering Titanic and.

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Speaker 3: Shrek, brilliantly titled the Shrek Tannic Tour.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Shrek Tornic. We're working on it.

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Speaker 3: There's a couple there's a couple months before the tour,

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Speaker 3: but yes, we're really excited. We're currently doing five shows

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Speaker 3: in the UK, with more shows to be added.

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Speaker 2: Stay tuned at the end of May.

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Speaker 1: Yes, starting with two shows in London on May twenty second.

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Speaker 1: On's at six point thirty that's a Shrek show, one

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Speaker 1: at nine pm that is a Titanic show. Then we

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Speaker 1: are scooting over to Oxford on May twenty fourth we

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Speaker 1: are covering Titanic. Okay, that show is a part of

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Speaker 1: the Saint Audio Podcast Festival in Oxford, so be sure

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Speaker 1: to check out our show as well as other shows

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Speaker 1: at the festival. Then we're scooting up to Edinburgh on

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Speaker 1: May twenty sixth and doing Shtrek.

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Speaker 3: If you're a Scottish Titanic fan, you are going to

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Speaker 3: have to commute and I know that that's not but listen, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you live in Edinburgh recovering Shrek.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but also you're welcome. And then

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Speaker 1: if you do want to see Titanic, you can head

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Speaker 1: down to Manchester. We're doing a show on May twenty eighth,

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Speaker 1: and that's a Titanic show. So yeah, you're just gonna

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Speaker 1: want to come to kind of all of them if

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Speaker 1: you live in the UK, if you live kind of

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Speaker 1: anywhere in Europe, or sort of just anywhere in the world.

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Speaker 3: As your Bechdel Cast allies in the US can attest to.

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Speaker 3: Our live shows are super fun. It is like a

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Speaker 3: live episode plus a bunch of fun stuff. We dress up,

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Speaker 3: we bring audience members on stage sometimes we do. It's

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Speaker 3: just it's big and goofy and silly, and we're covering

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Speaker 3: two of our favorite movies that are Bechdel Cast can

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Speaker 3: and so we want to have a good time. We'll

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Speaker 3: be bringing exclusive merch and we will be doing meet

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Speaker 3: and greets before and after the show.

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Speaker 2: We want to meet everybody.

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Speaker 3: And we're really really excited and tickets are already going

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Speaker 3: fast because we released it to Matrons first, plugging the

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Speaker 3: Patreon really quick.

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Speaker 1: Little perk for the matrons. Yep.

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Speaker 3: So if you live in those areas, get those dang

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Speaker 3: tickets because these shows will sell out.

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Speaker 1: Yes they will. So head over to our link Tree

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Speaker 1: Link Tree slash Bechdel Cast, grab your tickets for the

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Speaker 1: Shrek Tanic.

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Speaker 2: And enjoy the episode.

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Speaker 4: On the Doodcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 4: and are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or

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Speaker 4: do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy and bast start

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Speaker 4: changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Jamie Caitlyn, I wrote you a letter because I'm in

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Speaker 1: love with you? What? And do you know why?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: You don't even know me. No, I do, and you don't.

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Speaker 1: I know that you love strawberry pop tarts and that

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Speaker 1: I love strawberry pop tarts and that's enough fun what.

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Speaker 3: I unfortunately not to break the bechel test immediately, but

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Speaker 3: I sent that scene to my boyfriend and I was like, wow,

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Speaker 3: we sort of had that conversation at one point. It

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Speaker 3: was like the first night he stayed over at my

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Speaker 3: house and I was like, oh, do you want any breakfast?

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Speaker 2: I have three pop.

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Speaker 3: Tarts and he's like, wow, that's all I have at

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Speaker 3: my house meant to be. We should keep this thing

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Speaker 3: going and never improve as individuals.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of nice.

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Speaker 3: Uh so all that to say teenagers are swart. Actually,

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Speaker 3: this movie is so bizarre. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Derante.

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Speaker 3: This is our show where we examine movies through an

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Speaker 3: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping

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Speaker 3: off point for a larger discussion. The Bechdel Test is

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Speaker 3: a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, often

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Speaker 3: called the Bechdel Wallace Test since she collaborated on it

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Speaker 3: with her friend Liz Wallace.

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Speaker 2: That makes it.

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Speaker 1: Sound like it was like this big project. It was

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Speaker 1: not that it was just a throwaway Joe.

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Speaker 2: It was just kind of a day that they had.

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Speaker 1: In Alison Bechdel's Ducks to Watch out for from the

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Speaker 1: mid eighties. There are many versions of the test. The

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Speaker 1: one that we use is this, do two characters of

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Speaker 1: a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each

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Speaker 1: other about something other than a man? And ideally for us,

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Speaker 1: is it a nice, meaty conversation and not just throwaway Dialogue.

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Speaker 3: Today we are covering a much requested movie and I'll

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Speaker 3: say it, but a much requested guest.

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Speaker 2: I feel that I'm just excited to bring her in.

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Speaker 3: The vibes on our episodes with this guest are just

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Speaker 3: sort of unmatched.

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Speaker 1: It's like chaotic good yes. And also I would say

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Speaker 1: very Shrekian.

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Speaker 2: And not for nothing, not for nothing. Read the byline.

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Speaker 1: It's right there, it's right there. She's a culture writer.

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Speaker 1: You can see her work on Substack at High Shelley

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Speaker 1: as well as Architectural Digest and Vogue. You know her

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Speaker 1: from episodes on Buffaloed and Empire Records. It's Shelley Nicole.

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Speaker 5: Hi. I'm so happy I'm back.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, I hike.

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Speaker 5: You forget about the Shrekian How could I? I mean,

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Speaker 5: I need to put the mic down now because that's

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Speaker 5: so rude for me.

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Speaker 2: Has that not become your professional byeline?

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Speaker 5: It is? It is. Now Now that I'm solo and

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Speaker 5: on my own, I'm changing my substack from Hi Shelley

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Speaker 5: to exactly.

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Speaker 1: That, Hi Shreky, Hi Shreky exactly.

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Speaker 3: I mean theoretically, I mean, you know, Shrek five is

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Speaker 3: allegedly in production, so if you're pitching yourself for reviewing it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you're like, well, who who are you gonna

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Speaker 3: hire over Shreky.

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Speaker 5: Herself better than me? I would love to go to

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Speaker 5: a premiere of that. Wow, that would be so great.

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Speaker 5: Oh my first interview. Guys, I'm gonna do it now

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Speaker 5: that I know it exists. You're gonna make substacks send me.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna.

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Speaker 3: I'm currently spending so much like not it. I mean

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Speaker 3: I haven't done anything, but I just think about it

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Speaker 3: a lot of Like Despicable before comes out July third,

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Speaker 3: How hard could it be to get invited to that?

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Speaker 3: Like I have, I like, I do have to go.

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Speaker 3: I have Shrek news for everyone.

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, tell us I was at the mall

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Speaker 3: the other day, right brag.

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Speaker 5: I love that sentence. I love that very nineteen ninety

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Speaker 5: eight of you. I love this sentence. It's true.

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Speaker 3: I'm studying the scene. I was at a store called

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Speaker 3: box Lunch.

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Speaker 2: Who knows.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I know it's it's sort of like hot topic, but.

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Speaker 2: Like a little but I think it's like quieter.

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Speaker 1: Quiet it's not quite so hot.

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Speaker 2: I guess it's like a warm topic kind of thing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought that this was literally

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Speaker 5: gonna be like a sweet green or something like that.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know, like hot topics, like conservative sisters.

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Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, like it's it is. It's it's like

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Speaker 2: a hot topic. Got a desk job.

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Speaker 3: But it's still all like weirdly like merchandisee like merchandized stuff.

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Speaker 3: And they had a Shrek section and they had this

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Speaker 3: a Shrek instruction, you could say, And there was this

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Speaker 3: unbelove believable sweater that was like a full cable knit

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Speaker 3: sweater with like huge knit onions all over it, and

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Speaker 3: then on the back.

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Speaker 5: Was Shrek like three D onions.

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Speaker 2: Three D onions, like huge onion like pom poms.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it was really wait, jamis for the Shrek.

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Speaker 2: And with like a huge amount of disposable income.

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Speaker 1: Was this at the Glendale Galleria? Yes, okay, good, let's

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Speaker 1: go there and buy it.

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Speaker 3: It's called a business expense. Gosh, I'm looking for Okay, here,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna put it in the chat. It is sixty

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Speaker 3: five dollars, I guess for it A.

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Speaker 2: Nice five dollars. I'm like for a sweater you'll wear

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Speaker 2: every day for the rest of your life.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I mean small price to pay.

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Speaker 3: Maybe there's also a Shrek hockey Tracy.

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Speaker 5: Okay, see, this isn't as bad as I thought it

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Speaker 5: was gonna be.

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Speaker 3: I think it's tasteful. I think you could wear it

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Speaker 3: to like parent teacher conferences.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, like, yes, I'm the parent, and people will be like,

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Speaker 5: I feel like someone should call the FEDS because this

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Speaker 5: child is not okay, this child is not in a

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Speaker 5: happy home.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, okay, let's talk about well that we're all

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Speaker 1: caught up. So today we're talking about can't hardly wait

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Speaker 1: from nineteen ninety eight. Now, I didn't mean for that

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Speaker 1: to rhyme.

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Speaker 5: I was gonna be like, that was very cool, your kid,

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Speaker 5: It was very cool. Yeah, it was very nice.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, So Shelley, what is your relationship with this movie?

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Speaker 5: I saw this movie when I was in middle school

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Speaker 5: because it made me want to go It made me

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Speaker 5: excited to go to high school, or you know what

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Speaker 5: I'm saying, Like I think I had seen a lot

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Speaker 5: of movies that year because I was looking it up,

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Speaker 5: like when this movie came out, what else came out?

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Speaker 5: A Dead Man on Campus came out this year or too,

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Speaker 5: which a lot of people don't believe me. When I

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Speaker 5: talk about it that it is a real movie, s

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Speaker 5: like Zach Morris, Yeah, and it's got quite a plot.

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Speaker 5: One of my favorite teen movies came out. The Faculty

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Speaker 5: came out, featuring like usher disturbing behavior with like a

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Speaker 5: bad girl crop top Katie Holmes. So all of those

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Speaker 5: were like I was like, oh, it's kind of like

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Speaker 5: bad high school or scary high school or whatever. But

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Speaker 5: this one was so sweet and had like I know,

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Speaker 5: it's a bunch of silliness in it, but it had

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Speaker 5: like a cute little love story and stuff. And I

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Speaker 5: saw it. I rented it a blockbuster, of course, and

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Speaker 5: when I did rent it, it became one of the

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Speaker 5: movies that I always rented, like because I would rent

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Speaker 5: like two or three movies at a time, and I

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Speaker 5: would try to get a new one and then like

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Speaker 5: one where I'm like, I'm just going to watch this

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Speaker 5: all weekend and I'm gonna fuck this DVD up, like,

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Speaker 5: but I love this movie, yeah, And then that's my

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Speaker 5: relationship to it. Nothing really queer based, really, because I

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Speaker 5: was trying to think of that. I will say this

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Speaker 5: is one of the first movies I all that I

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Speaker 5: knew my answer to like do I want to like

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Speaker 5: be her, kiss her. I knew I wanted to be

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Speaker 5: Amanda Beckett and and a lot of the other movies

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Speaker 5: I saw. I was like, very confused this one right

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Speaker 5: out the gate. I was like, I just want to

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Speaker 5: be her, loved her tank top, love the hair I wear.

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Speaker 5: Hair sounds like this to this day. But yeah, I

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Speaker 5: just like, I love this movie so much. I love

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Speaker 5: also stand by it. I stand by the fact that

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Speaker 5: I think that this movie has one of the greatest

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Speaker 5: soundtracks I have ever heard in a teen film.

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Speaker 3: It's good, the boldness require to do the same smash

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Speaker 3: mouthed needle drop twice.

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Speaker 1: You're like, yes, what is this a Shrek movie?

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Speaker 5: Shrek wait?

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Speaker 1: Is Shrek ad opening on a.

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Speaker 3: Smash shrekd It's like it was Shrek before. I feel

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Speaker 3: like Shrek Saw can hardly waves. Like here's how my

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Speaker 3: feels like has to open.

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Speaker 5: I need that. I mean, it's aligned. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 5: just saying, but this movie is like fucking incredible, and

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Speaker 5: I think it's the first time I also saw hazy

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Speaker 5: moments in movies, like for some reason, when Amanda or

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Speaker 5: Jennifer Love Hewitt, famous three named actress.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean this was the era.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, she got like RuPaul Season one drag race lighting

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Speaker 5: in a lot of the moments where she was like

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Speaker 5: monologuing her ass off. But yeah, I love this movie

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Speaker 5: so much. I love this movie.

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Speaker 1: Oh Jamie, how about you? What's your history?

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Speaker 3: I'd never seen it. I'd never seen this movie before.

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Speaker 3: I jealous. I don't know, like why, because I found

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Speaker 3: I had seen a lot of the ninety teen movies.

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Speaker 2: This is just one that I hadn't seen for whatever reason.

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Speaker 3: My personal connection to it is that I was employed

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Speaker 3: by Seth Green for two years. Wow, so i'd certainly

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Speaker 3: and I've written with well, I mean, Breckenmeier's not in

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Speaker 3: this movie very much, but like we were in the

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Speaker 3: same writer's room for a chunk of time. So I

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Speaker 3: have like an attachment to two of the guys in

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Speaker 3: the movie. And then also like without this movie is

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Speaker 3: you know, and I guess it wasn't a success at

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Speaker 3: the time it came out, but without this movie, we

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have Josie and the Pussycats, And so I knew.

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Speaker 2: It was Like, even if I don't love.

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Speaker 5: It, I have to honor its place in history because

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Speaker 5: the director directors, Harry Elphont and Deborah Kaplan, who wrote

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Speaker 5: and directed this movie also wrote and directed Josie and

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Speaker 5: the Pussycats. Yeah that's so cool, right, I did not

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Speaker 5: know that.

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Speaker 3: I Yeah, I really enjoyed this movie. I thought it

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Speaker 3: was I think, like, you know, the places where it's

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Speaker 3: dated is really you know, dated obviously. But I like

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Speaker 3: this movie, especially because we've covered a lot of teen

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Speaker 3: movies of this era.

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Speaker 2: I think it's.

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Speaker 3: Doing a lot more than I expected in terms of

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Speaker 3: like showing it giving its characters some depth and some grace,

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Speaker 3: and like, I don't know any teen movie that ends

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Speaker 3: in a somewhat gray area I'm really intrigued by because

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Speaker 3: it's just like, not what happens. It's like it ends

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Speaker 3: with like a kiss and you will die with this teenager.

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Speaker 5: Like smash cuts. It's twenty five years later, they're.

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Speaker 2: Still together, right or like or a bet or a

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Speaker 2: lie or whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: Right, So it's like there, this movie's you know, trafficking

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Speaker 3: heavily in like stereotyped high school characters. But I feel

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Speaker 3: like it's doing a little more in terms of like

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Speaker 3: showing us the shades of gray to these characters.

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Speaker 2: I think if I had seen this.

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Speaker 3: As a teenager, I would have been like wow, Preston

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Speaker 3: and Amanda. As an adult, I'm so underwhelmed by President

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Speaker 3: and Amanda. I'm like, Amanda, what are you doing? What

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Speaker 3: are you doing? Yeah, the reality hasn't like I have.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think, well, we probably all feel the

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Speaker 3: same way. But like she was so right and the

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Speaker 3: way she like cut him down to size and then

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Speaker 3: she read. I was like, well, sure he wrote a

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Speaker 3: nice letter because he's a big fan of Kurt Vonnegut,

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Speaker 3: question mark, was he famous for love letters?

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Speaker 2: No, but like he has the.

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Speaker 3: Romantic stylings of Kurt Vonnicut, but like nothing, he still

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Speaker 3: doesn't know her.

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Speaker 5: She was right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, anyways, I thought this movie was fun

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Speaker 3: and good and I love Lauren Ambrose.

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Speaker 5: Literally love Lauren Ambrose. I was gonna talk about how

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Speaker 5: like Dyke coded this movie and that character is she's

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Speaker 5: going to NYU. She's like wearing all black, she's giving

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Speaker 5: like Clea Duval light. You know, it's also in this movie.

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Speaker 5: He's also two second movie. It's great, everybody's in this movie.

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Speaker 5: Everyone is in this movie. Everyone.

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Speaker 3: And I say this with love I feel, but it's

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Speaker 3: like I think the in teen comedies today because we

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Speaker 3: have covered like some modern teen movies.

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Speaker 2: Everyone does look so perfect and I.

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Speaker 3: Like that, Like, I mean, even though some of them

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Speaker 3: are kind of maybe visibly in their twenties, it's still

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Speaker 3: like I'm like, how do I say this in a

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Speaker 3: way that feels respectful, But like I like when they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're playing teenagers, they can kind of look like shit

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Speaker 3: and like be wearing confusing outfits and.

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Speaker 2: Like be sweaty, and.

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Speaker 3: Like it feels like such a cool like because this

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Speaker 3: is Debora Kaplan and Harry Elphont's first feature, and it's

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Speaker 3: like you can tell they're not working with a lot

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Speaker 3: of money, so sometimes people.

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Speaker 2: Are just sweating.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Jason Siegel's there, and I guess we'll allow it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah why not? Yeah, I don't know. I'm excited to

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Speaker 2: talk about it. Uh, Cantlee, what's your history with this movie?

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Speaker 1: I had seen it a couple of times before prepping

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Speaker 1: for the episode. It wasn't something that was like in

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Speaker 1: heavy rotation for me. But I saw it, I think

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Speaker 1: for the first time in probably college. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I saw it when I was still in high school,

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Speaker 1: so I was by the time I saw it for

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Speaker 1: the first time. I was just like high school, I

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Speaker 1: already did that, I'm not impressed. And then I feel

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Speaker 1: like I saw it again within the past five years.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what would have necessarily compelled me to

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Speaker 1: rewatch it. Maybe just because I was like, I love

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Speaker 1: Josie and the Pussycats and I want to be more

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Speaker 1: familiar with those filmmakers work. So I watched it again,

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Speaker 1: and I was reminded that it's like, like you were saying,

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Speaker 1: Jamie a more I would say, a slightly more subversive

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Speaker 1: version of like a teen ensemble cast movie.

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Speaker 2: I was reading because I was having like.

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Speaker 3: A half baked version of this thought. And then I

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Speaker 3: was reading the big retrospective of this movie that was

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Speaker 3: published in The Ringer like five years ago or so.

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Speaker 3: And Deborah and Harry because we're friends and so let's

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Speaker 3: just call them Deborah and Harry. They said, they're like

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Speaker 3: our inspiration for this was what if the party scene

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Speaker 3: from Say Say He was a movie? And I was like,

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Speaker 3: this movie has so much say anything energy to it,

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Speaker 3: like the the friendship between Preston and Denise felt very

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Speaker 3: say anything, because that's like another thing teen movies famously

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Speaker 3: can't do is like friends of the opposite gender not

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Speaker 3: getting married at.

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Speaker 5: The end of the movie. That's so cool to know.

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Speaker 3: Preston and Denise are so cool. Like it reminds me

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Speaker 3: so much of friendships that I had where it's like

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Speaker 3: there's like not not any sexual tension.

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Speaker 2: Between them that part.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's clear they're never going to act on

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Speaker 3: it and like it's never gonna happen. I was like, ooh,

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Speaker 3: I definitely was friends. I had those friendships where.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you're like stop and then you're like, oh.

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Speaker 1: I hate it.

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Speaker 5: I love the extra like puh, Like it's very that

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Speaker 5: and I think so too, because it's super like you know,

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Speaker 5: it's not not there, but they're never gonna act on

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Speaker 5: it for the sake of like we're such friends. Like

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Speaker 5: this would was so weird. It would have quite literally

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Speaker 5: ruin and I'm going to n yu. So I can't

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Speaker 5: like deal with.

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Speaker 3: That, like and honestly, like, you don't want to Kurt

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Speaker 3: Vonnaget boyfriend going into college dead way, don't.

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Speaker 5: No, not when you already wear like leather jacket and

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Speaker 5: lace like unronically to a teen party with your like

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Speaker 5: haircut and no, it's just no, no, I love that

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Speaker 5: character though.

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Speaker 1: She's so cool. Right, all right, let's take a quick

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Speaker 1: break and then we'll come back for the.

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Speaker 2: Recap and we're back.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Ready, here we go. It's high school graduation and

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Speaker 1: all the teens are talking about a huge party that night,

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Speaker 1: and there's a rumor going around that Mike Dexter also.

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Speaker 5: I was like, okay, oh my god, the last Lennon boyfriend. Yes,

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Speaker 5: astronaut Mike Dexter from thirty Rock.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, unbelievably distracting, so distracting, incredibly because I was like,

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Speaker 3: why do I Why do I know that name?

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Speaker 5: Why do I know this name? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Is there any real I'm like, did they just pick

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Speaker 2: two first names?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 1: Is it?

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Speaker 2: Or is that?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 3: Was there a writer at thirty Rock, like a fan

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Speaker 3: of this movie? Really bizarre?

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Speaker 1: We don't know, but you know, one of the main

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Speaker 1: characters is named basically astronaut Mike Dexter. He has dumped

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Speaker 1: Amanda Beckett and it's a big deal. All the teens

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Speaker 1: are talking about it. And then when Preston Myers played

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Speaker 1: by Ethan Embry, learns this, he is elated because he

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Speaker 1: has a huge crush on Amanda and he is his

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Speaker 1: best friend Denise played by Lauren Ambrose, that he wants

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Speaker 1: to finish what he started with Amanda four years priori,

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Speaker 1: which turns out to be nothing.

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Speaker 3: And if that sounds like a threat, it kind of really.

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Speaker 2: He's not not stalking her.

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Speaker 5: Very sinister retelling of the plot.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So we see a flashback where Preston like misses

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Speaker 1: his chance to give her a tour of the school

404
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Speaker 1: on her first day of school because she moved there

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Speaker 1: freshman year, and Mike Dexter gives her the tour instead,

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Speaker 1: which led them to getting together. So Preston missed out

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Speaker 1: on his chance, but now that Amanda is single, Preston

408
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Speaker 1: is going to make a move. Meanwhile, we meet astronaut

409
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Speaker 1: Mike Dexter, who is played by Peter Fatchinelli aka Carlisle

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Speaker 1: Cullen from Twilight.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but this movie is so rooted in like teendum,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean? Because also the teacher in

413
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Speaker 5: like the flashback scene when he was me she was

414
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 5: one of the og pink ladies from Greece. She's one

415
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Speaker 5: of the ones who sings like the toothbrush song in Grease.

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Speaker 5: This movie is like rooted in teen film history and

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Speaker 5: to then have this Cullen come on Hello.

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Speaker 3: I'm really like fascinated by like, and I don't I'm

419
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Speaker 3: sure that it's like rarely intentional, but like an actor

420
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Speaker 3: that is just like a mainstay of like coming of age,

421
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 3: like through their career, like Luke Perry comes to mind,

422
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Speaker 3: like through his career he was always in teen stuff,

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Speaker 3: even when he was fifty, and you're just like, it's

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Speaker 3: just where he thrives.

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Speaker 2: Who knows why, It's just where he thrives.

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Speaker 1: You know, we all have our little.

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Speaker 3: Niche yes, And I feel like, you know, Peter Facinelli's

428
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Speaker 3: same energy he was on he was on Supergirl, like oh.

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Speaker 2: He yeah, he's for the teens who can.

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Speaker 5: Say why, oh well, Mike Dexter, he's this like jock

431
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Speaker 5: bro dude, asshole type and he encourages his other shitty

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Speaker 5: jock friends to break up with their girlfriends like he

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Speaker 5: just did, and they're.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, that's a great idea. These girls are holding

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Speaker 1: us back. Also, one of the jock friends is Sean

436
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: Patrick Thomas from Save the Last Dance, which we just covered.

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Speaker 3: So that was a nineties jump. Scarrow wasn't prepared for it,

438
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Speaker 3: but I was like, of course.

439
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: He's there.

440
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

441
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: Then we meet William Lichter played by Charlie Coursmo. He's

442
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: the class valedictorian. He hates Mike Dexter for bullying him

443
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 1: for years, and so William and his like quote unquote

444
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: nerd friends are plotting this like revenge scheme, Revenge of

445
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 1: the Nerds.

446
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,959
Speaker 2: Much. It does have like a little bit of Incelli.

447
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 5: Agy, yeah very much. That. Yeah.

448
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 1: Anyway, they're planning this scheme against Mike Dexter and his

449
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: jock friends at the party that night. Then we meet

450
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: Kenny Fisher, that's Seth Green and his friends. And the

451
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: thing about them is that they are white kids who

452
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: are appropriating black culture.

453
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 5: And they are like called Homeboy number one in Homeboy

454
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 5: number two in the like oh yeah.

455
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 2: The character titles on this movie. It's a mess. Yeah,

456
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: it's a mess.

457
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: It's messy. And then the other thing with Kenny Fisher

458
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: is that he is like desperate to have sex with

459
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: basically any girl at the party, and he has this

460
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: whole backpack full of like lube and condoms and candles

461
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: and all this like sex paraphernalia.

462
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 2: He's got like the sex equivalent of a go bag.

463
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 2: Like it's just really.

464
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 5: The fact that it like flaps open to like it

465
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 5: en zips all the way. Something about that never sat

466
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 5: right with me because I was like, book bags don't

467
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 5: do that, so that must be for something naughty.

468
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 3: Another bizarrely sinister element of this movie.

469
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 5: Yes, the boys in this movie are scary kind of.

470
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: Across the board, like I'm not rooting for a single

471
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 3: one of them.

472
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: Nope. Okay. So people start arriving at the party, including

473
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: Preston and Denise, and Preston feels really good about his

474
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: chances at getting with Amanda Beckett, partly because he hears

475
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: a Barry Manilow song Mandy on the radio and he's like,

476
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: that's basically the same name as Amanda, so he takes

477
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: it as a sign that he should give her a letter,

478
00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: like a love letter that he wrote for Amanda. When

479
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: we finally see Amanda on screen for the first time,

480
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: she's played by Jennifer Love Hewitt. She shows up at

481
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: the party and Preston's like, Okay, I'm gonna go give

482
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,239
Speaker 1: her my letter, but he's still trying to work up

483
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: the nerve. He keeps missing opportunities. Then Amanda talks to

484
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: her cousin about her breakup and how oh yeah.

485
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's just I don't know if this is

486
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 5: where the cousin stuff started, like you know how it

487
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 5: ends up in Mean Girls Too, but like, oh yeah, no,

488
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 5: thank you please.

489
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 3: That I mean, first of all, fuck this guy because

490
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 3: he full on assaults her, and also fuck Preston because

491
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 3: Preston walks in.

492
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 5: And does not nothing, do anything, nothing.

493
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 3: And I know I know that he's like assuming that

494
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: they're hooking up, but it's like she's visibly struggling and.

495
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 2: He's like and he's like, oh, she doesn't like me.

496
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 2: I was like, you don't like her, she's gotta assault it.

497
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: You're not doing anything, you fucking lose her.

498
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what happens here is that her cousin, Amanda's

499
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: talking to him about her breakup and how it has

500
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: like affected her sense of identity and who is she

501
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: if she's not Mike's girlfriend, and then he responds by

502
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: like surprise, incest kissing her and she's like, what the fuck, dude,

503
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: And then Preston walks in at the exact wrong moment.

504
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: He assumes that, you know, she's just kissing another guy,

505
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: and then he's hurt by this and Preston throws the

506
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: letter away.

507
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

508
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: Then Preston leaves the party and he's like moping about

509
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 1: how she isn't supposed to be with someone else, She's

510
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: supposed to be with him because he believes in fate

511
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: and how there's like one person for each of us.

512
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 3: Right, and all of his stuff basically boils down to like,

513
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 3: she needs to be with me because I said so, Like,

514
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 3: that's all it is.

515
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 5: Because I fell in love with you when you walked

516
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 5: in one time. In over four years, that love has

517
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 5: simply just grown. And I know I could have talked

518
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 5: to you at a locker or like a game or whatever.

519
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 5: I've never been through this many rewrites in my entire

520
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 5: life that he has in this like letter.

521
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he says he's rewritten it like a thousand

522
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: times or something like that. I don't know if that's

523
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: hyperbole or what, but I'm just like, you've never talked

524
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: to her, How do you even know if you like

525
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: her anyway? All Right? So then there's a scene where

526
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: Preston crosses paths with a stripper dressed as an angel

527
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: played by Jenna Elfman.

528
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 5: Incredible.

529
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: She loved the sentence. Love the scene.

530
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: Yea She tells him about this time when she missed

531
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: her opportunity to talk to Scott Bao.

532
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: And very nineteen ninety eight.

533
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how she's always regretted it, and Preston doesn't

534
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: want to make that same mistake, so he heads back

535
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: to the party to try to talk to Amanda. Meanwhile,

536
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,479
Speaker 1: the valedictorian kid William is getting drunk and letting loose

537
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: for the first time. Mike Dexter is annoyed that none

538
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: of the other jocks have broken up with their girlfriends yet.

539
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 3: He's He does not realize how bizarre he seems, just

540
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 3: marching up to couples actively making out and being like, I.

541
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: Need to talk to you.

542
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 3: It's like you are the weirdest man in the entire world.

543
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 3: The movie knows that, but yeah, Mike Dexter doesn't.

544
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, he like starts to see hisself getting sadder by

545
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 5: like couple three I think, and then he's like, h

546
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 5: wait a minute, wait.

547
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: Did I make a mistake?

548
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 3: Sometimes I've like when you see just like men do

549
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 3: shit like that, You're like, give me that confidence for

550
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 3: one second. Let me do something that sucked up and

551
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 3: like have no idea.

552
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: Yep, Okay, So Meanwhile, Denise is wandering around by herself,

553
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: having trouble like connecting with anyone. Seth Green is trying

554
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: to hit on different girls, mostly to no avail, until

555
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: he finds a girl who is willing to go to

556
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: the poolhouse with him, so he goes to the bathroom

557
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: to like get ready for sex, but then Denise bursts

558
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: in and they get stuck in the bathroom together because

559
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: the door is broken, and so we see some scenes

560
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: with them in the bathroom. Denise calls out Seth Green

561
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: what's his character's name, Kenny Kenny Kenny, for being fake,

562
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 1: and she's like, look in the mirror, you're white, and

563
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: he's like, what crazy, And then we learn that they

564
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: used to be friends, but ever since, like high school

565
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: or middle school, they've kind of drifted apart and they

566
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: don't talk to each other anymore. Also, Preston's letter to

567
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: Amanda kind of fatefully makes its way back into the

568
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: house because it's like getting stuck on people's shoes and

569
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: like flying around the air, and it ends up right

570
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: in front of Amanda, so she picks it up and

571
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: reads it and then she's like, wait, who's Preston Myers?

572
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 5: So she started like exactly exactly who indeed, I like

573
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 5: how They're like, how could you not remember him?

574
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, name one memorable quality about it? Sorry about

575
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 3: this child.

576
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 5: I will say that, like, that scene of the letter

577
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 5: passing has been one of to me, one of like

578
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 5: the coolest scenes I've ever seen in like a seen movie,

579
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 5: because it's just so like I don't know something about it.

580
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 5: I was just like, this is so cool. And I

581
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 5: vividly remember rewinding that scene so many times, like I

582
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 5: just thought it was so cool. I was like, this

583
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 5: is creative flow.

584
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: It's like slightly a Rube Goldberg machine kind of thing

585
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: ish or adjacent. Anyway, it is. It's visually fun. And

586
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,479
Speaker 1: so she gets the letter and she starts going around

587
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 1: asking people who and where Preston Myers is, but no

588
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: one gives her a clear answer. Right Meanwhile, Mike Dexter

589
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: talks to Jerry O'Connell, who's in the movie for a

590
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: few minutes, and Mike Dexter realizes that maybe it was

591
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: a mistake to break up with Amanda based on Jerry

592
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: O'Connell being this like former high school stud but now

593
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: that he's a college freshman. None of the girls one

594
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: a day.

595
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: I'm a dozen, so I'm sorry.

596
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 5: He is not a freshman. He is thirty thirty.

597
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: Well I looked it up. He and he and Seth

598
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: are the same age. I think that he just looks more.

599
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 3: I don't know, he just looks like, uh, he looks

600
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 3: older than he is.

601
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 5: He looks grown as shit. Yeah. Like because when they

602
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 5: said that, I was like, what, No.

603
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 3: But the name Trip McNeely again, incredible. Now that isn't

604
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 3: a teenager MCA high school kind of name, like that

605
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: kid never existed, but he exists in high school movies exclusively,

606
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 3: Trip McNeely.

607
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 5: Wasn't there another Trip in another movie? Like a teen movie?

608
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 5: Trip was like two p's. Wait, I'm pretty sure, but

609
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 5: I can't remember.

610
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: I wrote Trip character. What that's not helpful? Trip Fontaine

611
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 2: from the Virgin Suicide.

612
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 5: That's who it is, because I am obsessed with the Virgin.

613
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: That was nice, jeeus we did ladies, we did.

614
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 5: It was that was solid.

615
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 3: Wow, Josh, that's even the Josh Hartnett character in the

616
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 3: Virgin Suicide.

617
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 5: Virgin Suicide.

618
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got there. Wow, here's what I did, Trip character.

619
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 3: Then I clicked on the Wikipedia page for Trip. Then

620
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 3: I went to the subsection fictional characters.

621
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 5: For trip it was that easy, You didn't.

622
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: Trip McNeely does not appear on this list.

623
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Okay, trip erasure much the way. Okay, So Mike

624
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: Dexter realizes it was a mistake to break up with Amanda,

625
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: so he goes and tries to get back together with

626
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: her by surprise kissing her, and she's like ooh, no,

627
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: like we're through and you're an egotistical asshole. And then

628
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: after that, because like everyone was watching this whole scene

629
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 1: play out, a bunch of boys go up to Amanda

630
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: and try to get with her and she's like, ooh,

631
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: get away from me. And this is also when Preston

632
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: returns and like rushes over to Amanda, and he finally

633
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: works up the courage to tell her that he loves her.

634
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: But because she's so fed up with all of this

635
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: unwonted male attention, she's like, what you think I'm just

636
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: gonna have sex with you? Think again you lose her?

637
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: And you're like, yeah, fair, I mean fair.

638
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 5: Fair, Yeah, she was right, but also she's that's who

639
00:34:59,280 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 5: she's been.

640
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: Looking for, Yeah, exactly. She doesn't realize that. She does

641
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: not realize that he's Preston Meyers, the guy who wrote

642
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: the letter and who she's been asking around about, and

643
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: she's rejected him nonetheless, and so Preston is so so

644
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: so sad, and he runs away. We cut back to

645
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: the bathroom, and now Denise and Seth Green are kind

646
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: of vibing, and then he surprise kisses her, because there

647
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: are so many surprise kisses in this movie.

648
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 5: So many surprise kisses.

649
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the nineties in general.

650
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 5: The nineties, Yeah, in general, especially teen film.

651
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. But she actually likes it, and then they start

652
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 1: making out and then they have sex using the various

653
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: memorabilia from his weird back pinky back.

654
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

655
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: Cut back to Amanda for Denise, who looks up Preston

656
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: in the yearbook and she realizes that he's the guy

657
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: who she just lashed out at and she's like, oh no,

658
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: So she goes around trying to find him, but the

659
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: cops show up at the party and it breaks up

660
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: the party. Everyone scatters and Preston has already left. So

661
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: the next day, Preston and Denise are hanging out. She

662
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: tells Preston that she had sex with Seth Green, and

663
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: he's like, why'd you do that, yeah.

664
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: Which also like who are you I mean right again

665
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 3: talking a big game and for what it took you

666
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 3: four years?

667
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

668
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 5: Right?

669
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: And then Preston tells Denise that things didn't work out

670
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: with him and Amanda. I guess it just wasn't meant

671
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: to be. And he's about to leave for college slash

672
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: a Kurt Vonnegut workshop in Boston, so he's like leaving

673
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: that day.

674
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 3: And he's also at like Union Station. I was like,

675
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 3: you're about to be on the train ride of a

676
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 3: lifetime if you're taking a train to Boston whatever. I

677
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 3: know that that's not where the movie takes place, but

678
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 3: it is visibly Union Station.

679
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: And then we tie up some other loose ends with characters.

680
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: We get some text that tells us what their future holds.

681
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: For example, William goes to Harvard and forms a multimillion

682
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: dollar software company, and it's like, okay, Mark Zuckerberg vies.

683
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, not rooting for him.

684
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 3: And then also I thought, like a pretty harsh ending

685
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 3: for Mike Dexter, both William and Mike. You're like, it's

686
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 3: very like Revenge of the Nerds era, like geekshell inherit

687
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 3: the Earth?

688
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 5: Yeah right?

689
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: And then yeah, because Mike Dexter's he like becomes a loser.

690
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of like body shaming and.

691
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: Like class light class shaming.

692
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, class shaming, making light of alcohol addiction, all of

693
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: this stuff to like, you know, imply that he's a loser.

694
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: Now we see a little text about Denise and Seth

695
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: Green and they're like on again, off again relationship. And

696
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: then the movie ends with Preston at the train station

697
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: and who shows up but Amanda with the letter he wrote,

698
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: and she's like, damn, you're leaving. Huh, well maybe this

699
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: is how it was supposed to be. Bye, And he's

700
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: like damn, yeah, bye. But then he's like, wait a minute, No,

701
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: that's the love of my life. So then he turns

702
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: around and he runs after her, and then they kiss

703
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: and they're still together to this day. And she writes

704
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: him letters or something and.

705
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, we not do we not know what

706
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,919
Speaker 2: she's gonna do with her life? No, we don't.

707
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 5: She writes him letters. That's what she does. She writes letters.

708
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 5: That's her literal life.

709
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 3: Wow, feminism, another wind for feminism.

710
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss.

711
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: And we're back Shelly, is there any particular place you

712
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: would like to start.

713
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 5: Yes, I definitely want to start with Kenny in his

714
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 5: Kenny's introduction, right, Okay, So when I was watching this movie,

715
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 5: like when I first watched it, I'm in middle school, right,

716
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 5: I don't think I had the words for like what

717
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 5: cultural appropriation was. I just knew that he was like

718
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 5: pretending to be black, right, So I don't know how

719
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 5: at the time, with my young mind, young age, how

720
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 5: offended I was, because I was just like, he also

721
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 5: wasn't the main part of the story that I was

722
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 5: that I cared about, you know. So I was just like,

723
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 5: this is weird because every time he came on, the

724
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 5: music in the background switched to like hip hop or

725
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 5: like something R and B and all that stuff. So

726
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 5: what I rewatched it like a few years ago, I

727
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 5: was like, uh oh, Like I was just I remember

728
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 5: being like, oh shit, this is so bad. And then

729
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 5: as I watched the movie more, I realized that when

730
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 5: I originally watched it when I was a kid, this

731
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 5: movie was the first time I started realizing pairings of

732
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,959
Speaker 5: black people, right, like even in something like Clueless, which

733
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 5: it's so obvious, like you know, Dionne is with her boyfriend,

734
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying. I was like, oh, that's

735
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 5: like fine. But then I started realizing the purposeful pairings

736
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 5: of like the black characters, and I just thought that

737
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 5: was so interesting because obviously I saw him this movie too,

738
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 5: because they are the only two black people in the

739
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 5: school and the popular group like Mike Dexter's friends and

740
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 5: Amanda's friends. Like her name is Tamara, she's also in

741
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 5: the Wood and stuff like that. I realized her character.

742
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like I.

743
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 5: Don't know, I think it's just so interesting that young

744
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 5: me did it not clock that about Kenny but didn't

745
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 5: wasn't fully like upset, like I think gen Z would

746
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 5: be like if this happened, if this movie came out now,

747
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 5: so many things obviously, but if that part of the

748
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 5: movie happened, I think a young eleven year old watching

749
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 5: it would still be like a young black eleven year

750
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 5: old watching it would be like, ah, this is terrible,

751
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 5: like he shouldn't be doing that. But at the time,

752
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 5: I just remember being like, this is weird, but he's

753
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 5: not my focus. So I just thought it was so

754
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 5: odd that that was such a choice of a character. Yes,

755
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 5: it was and I wonder, like you said, like there

756
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 5: was let you know, especially as like a middle school

757
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 5: age person, there wasn't quite the same length whige around

758
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 5: cultural appropriation as there is now, and you know, it's

759
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 5: not something that necessarily tweens are thinking about that much.

760
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 5: But also I wonder if it has anything to do

761
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 5: with the fact that, like this was like a pretty

762
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 5: like white people appropriating black culture and like speaking in

763
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 5: aave and like wearing fubuu and listening to exclusively hip

764
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 5: hop and stuff like that. Like this was a movement.

765
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 5: It was a horrible movement. Yeah, Like it was a

766
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 5: thing that for the time felt normalized quote unquote, just

767
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 5: because like a lot of people were doing it and

768
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 5: you saw characters like this on screen and movies from

769
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 5: this era. It was such a thing.

770
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: It was again, it was a horrible thing to have

771
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: been normalized. But yeah, it was a thing.

772
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think the reason I didn't like maybe the

773
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 5: reason why I did. I knew that it was a

774
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 5: thing because I did see it. But in my everyday life, right,

775
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 5: Like I went to a mostly black school and stuff

776
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 5: like that, so it was it was kind of like

777
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 5: if there was a white boy in our school and

778
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 5: was acting like that. It kind of was like, that's

779
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 5: who he is versus A few years later, I went

780
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 5: to a school called Oak Park High School, and then

781
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 5: there was Cranbrooke High School not well sorry, Seahome, Birmingham,

782
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 5: Seahome or whatever, and they were a fancy school and

783
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 5: we would do this is so weird to talk about now,

784
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 5: but we would once a year they would have a

785
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 5: select group of students come to our school and we

786
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 5: would go to theirs for like a few days.

787
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 2: That sounds like a movie, it.

788
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 5: Is, And it was like to us, it was cool

789
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 5: to go see their shit because they had like a

790
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 5: really fancy school and all. But to them it was

791
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 5: like what were they learning, you know what I'm saying,

792
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 5: Other than being like, oh, they're here a bunch of

793
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 5: poor kids. So I remember like going there and stuff.

794
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 5: People would be like, there's white boys doing this weird

795
00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 5: shit over there, like like and it was like they

796
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 5: were the Kennis and shit like that. But at our school,

797
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 5: if the white boys were doing it, it was kind

798
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 5: of just like, I don't know, a product of the environment.

799
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 5: It was a little bit. It wasn't as fake, you

800
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 5: know what I mean. So when I was watching this.

801
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 5: It kind of made me be. When I was younger,

802
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 5: I just didn't clock it, you know what I mean.

803
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 5: But now I was even today when I was rewatching

804
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 5: it again, I was like, oh my god, this is

805
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 5: so bad. This is it's so bad.

806
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 3: It's like I first of all that high school switch thing.

807
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 2: That's gonna stick with me because what.

808
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: Yes, well that's kind of the premise. Have you seen

809
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 1: that show jam or Jama? Is that what it is?

810
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: It's a spin off of Summer Heights High. It's an

811
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: Australian comedy show.

812
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 5: Oh oh, I know it're talking about in incredible It's

813
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 5: one of my favorite shows of all time. But yes,

814
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 5: it's similar to that, and we would do it like

815
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 5: Oak Park, Hi, I would do it with Birmingham Seahome

816
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 5: and you know we would see their fancy pool and

817
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,280
Speaker 5: like their top like of the line of computer lab

818
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 5: and like. But thinking about it now, it's like when

819
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 5: they came to us, they were what being grateful for

820
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,919
Speaker 5: what they had, like you know what I mean?

821
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 2: Right, it's like not and I don't.

822
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, and what is the supposed takeaway from that

823
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 3: supposed to be like other than like systemic anger? But

824
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 3: it's like, do kids have language for that at that time?

825
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 5: No, because we were in high school at that time.

826
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,439
Speaker 5: This is like early two thousands, you're just like, oh shit,

827
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 5: they have a computer lab with all colorful max. You

828
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 5: know what I mean? Right, Like we weren't at least

829
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 5: I wasn't taken away anything from it other than being like,

830
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 5: I want a computer room with colorful.

831
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 3: Max, right right, I mean it's like, yeah, I think

832
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 3: when I was in high school, might take away would

833
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 3: have been like, oh fuck these rich kids, fuck them,

834
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 3: I'm mad at them, I hate them, and not like

835
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 3: why do we not get access to this exactly?

836
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 2: I don't know.

837
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 3: It's almost like children are not operating. But I feel

838
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: like I hope maybe today's kids are are a little

839
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 3: different or at least like are a little more.

840
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 2: Conditioned to think that way for sure.

841
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 3: With Kenny, yeah, I'm interested to talk about him because

842
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 3: Kaitlin and I agree that it's like this. It's not

843
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 3: like this movie invented this stock character. This was definitely

844
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 3: I mean I knew versions of this kid. Yeah, And

845
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 3: I feel like a lot like if you went to

846
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 3: I don't know, can't speak to high schools now bravely,

847
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 3: but in the span of time that we were growing up.

848
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 3: It's like these kids existed. I guess that it's like,

849
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 3: and I'm not I don't necessarily object to an attempt to,

850
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 3: but it just felt like there's no real comment happening.

851
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 3: There's like it approaches, like Denise calls him out, yes,

852
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 3: but that kind of doesn't go anywhere.

853
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, that doesn't go anywhere because she has

854
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: sex with him too. Such she had sex with.

855
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 5: Them, Yeah, she with Denise.

856
00:46:59,560 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

857
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 2: How do we feel about how that play is out?

858
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: Because I was, I was. I was honestly surprised that

859
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 2: it was called out at all.

860
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: Same. Well, then, the other thing that sort of is

861
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: approaching commentary but not really is the scene where Kenny's

862
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: friends are standing among god black kids, Yes, and one

863
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: of them says the N word.

864
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 3: Yes.

865
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,439
Speaker 1: I think he's attempting to use it as a term

866
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: of endearment, but the black kids are like, what the

867
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: fuck you can't say that? Yeah, and then they chase

868
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 1: him away.

869
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 5: Yeah. And I think that's the only kind of commentary

870
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 5: that was ever in nineties and early two thousands teens

871
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 5: film while you're talking about race. It was like they

872
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 5: had to have a white person say the N word

873
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 5: or like they had to, they had to make that

874
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 5: person like make black people angry. And that was the

875
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 5: only way to include black teens in a film was

876
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 5: if you were using them to like again further the

877
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 5: plot of a white character that probably should not have

878
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 5: been created in the first place, and those black kids

879
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 5: don't get any lines, like you know what I mean,

880
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 5: Like it's not even Rewatching nineties and twenty teens film

881
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 5: always makes me realize, like, because how much we weren't

882
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 5: in the movies, you know what I mean, how much

883
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 5: like a black present unless it's like a Save the

884
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 5: Last Dance, But like again, that is pushing forward the

885
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 5: plot of Julia styles like that's she for sure everything

886
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 5: was around around that, but it was what I had

887
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 5: access to. It's what I wanted to see and like

888
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 5: all that kind of stuff. But in this movie, specifically,

889
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 5: the amount of like fake blackness or attempt to like

890
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 5: put black people black teens in a teen film, it

891
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 5: was so bad.

892
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,919
Speaker 3: It's so it's like just unbelievably at best misguided, because

893
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, we have two white writer directors, and

894
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 3: I mean I feel like it says everything that they

895
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 3: include Kenny, and I would say, like he's a I

896
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 3: don't know, he's a more memorable character than like, yeah,

897
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 3: he's I knew about this Seth Green character.

898
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 2: I did not know about the Ethan Embry character.

899
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,760
Speaker 3: And so for him to have such a large portion

900
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 3: in the story and for his character to be so

901
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 3: defined by how much he's appropriating black culture, and then

902
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 3: also like seeing him effortlessly you know, like take it

903
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 3: on and off as as needed.

904
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 5: Like in the bathroom that was the switch, right, It

905
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 5: blew my mind.

906
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 3: And then it's like, so to put that much energy

907
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 3: into bringing that character to life while making no effort

908
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 3: to characterize any of the black teenagers.

909
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 2: That or black twenty four year olds whatever.

910
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 3: That populate this party, because it's not a like it's

911
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 3: it's more diverse than I you normally.

912
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 2: See in a nineties teen movie. But but the focus

913
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: is all on the white characters.

914
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, even though you have so many famous nineties black

915
00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 3: actors at this.

916
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 5: Party, especially, and it was really wild too, like even

917
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 5: when they were talking to Donald Fazon when he was

918
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 5: he called him a hoodie, you know what I mean,

919
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 5: Like the bandmate called him HOODI after he called him,

920
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 5: like the white artists formerly known as Prince. And it's

921
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 5: always something like like that, like a black person has

922
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,959
Speaker 5: to be like agitated in order to be included. Sorry,

923
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 5: a black teen fake as they may be age wise

924
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 5: in these movies, has to be agitated in order to

925
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,439
Speaker 5: be included. Same thing for even bigger movies like Bring

926
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 5: It On, like that whole situation they were stealing from

927
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 5: them and it had to be a whole you know

928
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 5: what I mean. It's just still a great movie. But

929
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 5: it's always been like that in teen films, even mean Girls,

930
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 5: the unfriendly black hotties. Are they unfriendly or do they

931
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 5: like not want to fuck with you because you're like boring,

932
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 5: like you know what I mean, like.

933
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: Sky or like directing micro or macro aggressions at them constantly.

934
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 5: Like constantly, like you're putting that label on them, and

935
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 5: they have to be agitated in order to get a

936
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 5: reaction or to be included in these narratives. And it

937
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 5: was it's less now because everybody's so focused on like

938
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 5: DEI and all this kind of stuff like that, like

939
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 5: the New Main Girls and all that. But in the

940
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,439
Speaker 5: nineties they were like, no, let's just make black people mad,

941
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 5: like it was mask off.

942
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, and even on top of like it relying

943
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 3: on agitating black teenagers in order for them to participate,

944
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 3: anything that was said to or by a black character

945
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 3: was connected to race, like because and I think that

946
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 3: that is just an extension of like these two white

947
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: writers cannot conceive of what the inner.

948
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 2: Life of a black teenager would be.

949
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 3: And it's like, well, no, maybe they just discuss their

950
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 3: own race in every interaction.

951
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 2: I'm like, what.

952
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 5: Even in the scene too, And I mean, this might

953
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 5: be a little bit of a reach, but even in

954
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 5: scene where Mike pulls away the two guys when they're

955
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 5: dancing with their girlfriends and Jamie Presley and I think

956
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 5: her name is Tamara, I don't.

957
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,320
Speaker 1: Want to, I really Tamala Tamala Jones.

958
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 5: Tamala Jones. Yeah, where Tamala Jones and Jamie Presley start

959
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 5: dancing together while they're all the boys are having a conversation. Ye,

960
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 5: Like I said, this may be a reach, but they're

961
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 5: dancing to wild things and then essentially, like the black

962
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 5: girl starts to like pretend to tap Jamie's ass while

963
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 5: she's like twerking on her a little bit. I don't know,

964
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 5: you feel me, like it's something like yea, even that

965
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 5: kind of micro like, oh, this is how black girls

966
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 5: be dancing, like and then.

967
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 3: There's I'm trying to remember the last time we had

968
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 3: this discussion. And again it does feel and like correct

969
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 3: me if I'm wrong, but like it does feel like

970
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 3: it's very inherent to this era too, where it's it

971
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 3: just feels clear that it's like casting wise, this movie

972
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 3: is not going to make an interracial couple happen, not

973
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 3: like it's the black teens state black teens, the white

974
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 3: teens date white teens, and that is like the movie

975
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 3: is not gonna attempt no anything else, which actually kind

976
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 3: of like if you consider the fact that it's gonna

977
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 3: be another three years until Save the Last Dance comes out,

978
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 3: which like whiffs this same that like it attempt at

979
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 3: an interracial teen couple tremendously, which she could listen to

980
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 3: our episode that either just came out or was about

981
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 3: to come out about Save the Last Dance.

982
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 2: It's just like a it's a bad era. It's a

983
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: bad era for sure.

984
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 5: It's bad. And that's what I mean by like that

985
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 5: was the first time that I like notice the pairings

986
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 5: of like, oh, black teen, black teen black teen, black teen,

987
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 5: you know what I mean? So, and it's like, then

988
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 5: what happened was we started getting movies like what's the

989
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 5: one with Christina Milian Love Don't cost a Thing, where

990
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 5: it's like there are two per characters. Yeah, it's like

991
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 5: there are two black characters as in a teen movie,

992
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 5: but she fair skin and like got soft hair, you

993
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 5: know what I mean, And like it's that whole vibe

994
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 5: and we get it. And that's in two thousand and three.

995
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 5: The only one that I can think of that even

996
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 5: I think, has done so well with a mono racial,

997
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 5: dark skinned black couple and they aren't even teenagers is Rylane.

998
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 5: Rylane is one of my favorite movies of all time.

999
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 5: And if y'all haven't watched it, you should watch it.

1000
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 5: It's like it just came out last year. It's yes,

1001
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 5: I saw it at Sundance. I'm sorry to throw out

1002
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:35,280
Speaker 5: that conversation, but we have to watch it. It's done so well,

1003
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 5: and it's black and it's British and it's incredible and

1004
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 5: you should just watch. It's on Hulu.

1005
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 1: So nice, Okay, Yeah, but yeah, I mean the reluctance

1006
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: to put anything on screen besides like a very rigid,

1007
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:56,439
Speaker 1: very stereotypical scenario when it comes to representation of race

1008
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: on screen across all movies, across all genres in this

1009
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: era and beyond, in teen movies, when they often have

1010
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: like a big ensemble cast or like groups of friends,

1011
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: like the boy has his popular guy friends and then

1012
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: the then there's the group of popular girls. So you

1013
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 1: have like a lot of characters and therefore a lot

1014
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: of opportunities to show a lot of different types of people.

1015
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: But the boxes that people get put in, and it's

1016
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: often again like favoring whiteness or light skin in general.

1017
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 1: It's you know, not exploring relationship dynamics that exist in

1018
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: the world, such as interracial couples. It's just like, well,

1019
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: obviously only the black kids would date the other black kids,

1020
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: or you know, stuff like that, and it's it's just

1021
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: still rigid. We still see these weird, rigid boxes that we.

1022
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 3: Were talking about that off mic before before we started recording,

1023
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 3: where it's like still very much an issue, and I

1024
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 3: think it's like, it is freaky to.

1025
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 2: See it laid out so unquestionably.

1026
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 3: Clear, especially with a character like Kenny in as prominent

1027
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 3: a role as he is.

1028
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 2: It's just like kind of unbelievable.

1029
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 5: Because it's a huge role. It's also there was like

1030
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 5: an interracial couple in this movie. I just realized that

1031
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 5: that one guy that was kind of a creep, the

1032
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 5: black guy in Melissa Joanhart's character. They end up linking

1033
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 5: up at the end true in the cafe because they're

1034
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 5: both like just hyper. They love most school, they love memories, remember.

1035
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,760
Speaker 1: That time that blah blah blah, and they're like, wow,

1036
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: I love having a memory, which.

1037
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 3: He was kind of a creep, but I was like,

1038
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 3: I don't hate that end game because she was like

1039
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 3: not a creep.

1040
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 2: But they're definitely both weirdos and you're always part of of.

1041
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 3: Like it may be the coupling that ultimately makes the most.

1042
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 5: And it's just like they were the ones who, like,

1043
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 5: I mean, you just couldn't leave the movie without having

1044
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 5: an interracial couple. They were like, we do it too,

1045
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 5: And maybe that was the start of all of them

1046
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 5: in teen movies. Maybe it was Melissa jo and Hard

1047
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 5: and maybe that's what it was.

1048
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 3: I kind of forgot that I did. I watched this

1049
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 3: movie twice and I totally forgot it. Also, like if

1050
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 3: you blink, you miss it. Yeah, that's I mean, it's

1051
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 3: like they're not. Yeah, I think that it's like the

1052
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 3: amount of real estate, and it's like I think Seth

1053
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 3: Green does great with what he's given, but it's like

1054
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 3: he does though it's not going I mean, if it

1055
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 3: was going somewhere, I don't know. I mean we'll never know.

1056
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 3: We'll never know if that was ever going to go

1057
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 3: somewhere because it's just like this movie, for all the

1058
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 3: things I like about it, it's like not not only

1059
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 3: not built to have that conversation, but has no interest

1060
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 3: in any meaningful commentary.

1061
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: Well, because the whole movie hinges on tropes and stereotypes

1062
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: and clicks of high school students. You know, you got

1063
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: the jock kids, you've got the nerds, you've got the

1064
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 1: popular girls, and none of that is particularly challenged. I

1065
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: would say, like Preston, he like doesn't really fit into

1066
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 1: a group.

1067
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 5: But other than that, because he's not like unpopular, he's

1068
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 5: just not he's just he's just kind of coasting, forgettable.

1069
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my issue with him, is he is just

1070
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 2: like he is.

1071
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 3: I feel like he's the stereotype of like teenage everyman,

1072
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 3: Like he's just there. I mean, it's not Ethan Embry's fault,

1073
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 3: but it's just like he's just there.

1074
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: He's just there. And then again, stereotypes about jocks are

1075
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: like put there and not questioned or challenge. You know,

1076
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: their their meatheads, they're bullies, they don't have any interests

1077
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: outside of sports and sex.

1078
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 3: But again, you get like a little like glimpse into

1079
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 3: like maybe this is going somewhere, and it's super over

1080
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 3: the top. I'm not saying it's necessarily like super well done,

1081
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: but in those moments where it's like the jock and

1082
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 3: the nerd are hanging out together and they're having this

1083
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,919
Speaker 3: like real kind of like intense conversation, You're like, oh,

1084
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 3: this is kind of cool where it's like they're kind

1085
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 3: of attempting to reconcile. He's trying to drunkenly acknowledge that

1086
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 3: he's been horrible to William, and like they're having a

1087
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 3: conversation that you're like, oh, this is like moments like that,

1088
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I wouldn't have expected that in this movie,

1089
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 3: and I wasn't even really upset by how that resets

1090
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 3: at the end. That felt unfortunately kind of true to

1091
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 3: life of like, oh that was just one time and like, technically,

1092
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 3: Mike Dexter did do him a kindness by not endangering

1093
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 3: his scholarship and like making sure he didn't get in

1094
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: trouble and taking the fall for him, and like that's

1095
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 3: a really kind thing.

1096
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 2: To have done.

1097
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 3: And then when they see each other the next time,

1098
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 3: the dynamic is reset, Mike Dexter doesn't and that felt

1099
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 3: like unfortunately, like I didn't hate that beat because it

1100
00:59:58,120 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 3: felt more realistic than.

1101
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,959
Speaker 2: Mike Dexter being like, wait, you guys, like that's not.

1102
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 5: Who he is. We're friends. Yeah, I bought it, Yeah,

1103
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 5: I definitely bought it.

1104
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 3: The thing that I thought was really cruel was like

1105
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 3: learning what happens to Mike Dexter after that, that felt

1106
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 3: like the movie being like he deserves this, this like

1107
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 3: very again. It's like it felt like there was that

1108
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 3: whole sequence where it felt like the jock nerd stereotypes

1109
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 3: were being challenged, but where we leave, both of those

1110
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 3: characters are both very in line with what those stereotypes are.

1111
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 3: He grows up to like, you know, he's a cool

1112
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 3: nerd now and he's a supermodeled girlfriend. Meanwhile, this guy

1113
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 3: like it's all of these prescriptive, like his life didn't

1114
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:41,919
Speaker 3: turn out as well.

1115
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: He peaked in high school the way.

1116
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 5: Right, And that's what I was gonna say, Yeah, you

1117
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 5: would think that he would like high school was all

1118
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 5: that they had. And I think that goes to like

1119
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 5: the writers too. You can always tell how a writer

1120
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 5: feels or felt about somebody in high school, you know

1121
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 5: what I mean, And like, so you can't tell me

1122
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 5: that these people aren't sort of either writing Jennifer love

1123
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 5: Hewitt's character in a way of like, oh I wish

1124
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 5: I wasn't Amanda Beckett, and then writing what happens to

1125
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 5: Mike in a way of like somebody that really fucked

1126
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 5: them over, that probably made it and whatever made it

1127
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:22,919
Speaker 5: sense means to them. But in this movie that I'm writing.

1128
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 2: Like they lose, Yeah, you lose.

1129
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 5: You know. You can always tell that in movies. And

1130
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 5: what I was gonna say about the whole like Mike

1131
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 5: and the nerdy guy situation was rewatching. Like honestly, a

1132
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 5: few years later this time I remembered it. I was like, Oh,

1133
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 5: that happens is all of the like queer shit that

1134
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 5: was just that is bad, like because when they the

1135
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 5: pictures were supposed to be him getting caught out not

1136
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 5: just like in a kinky thing, but like with the

1137
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 5: guy is the thing that is so bad? And then

1138
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 5: like Kenny's friends, they dropped the F bomb twice in

1139
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 5: ten minutes into the movie. They call Kenny one when

1140
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 5: they're on the store, and I think again at the

1141
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 5: party when they're like eating chips, So yeah, that kind

1142
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 5: of stuff. And then I saw Claire Duval and I

1143
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 5: was like, wait, we all know who she is, Like

1144
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 5: it's so I think this was one of the first

1145
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 5: movies where I like couldn't really pick up on anything

1146
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 5: that I was like queer coded. I think the only

1147
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 5: thing I reacted to was when the girlfriends were dancing together.

1148
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 5: When I was younger, I was like, hmm, wait a minute,

1149
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 5: that's that looks fun, like you know what I mean,

1150
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,439
Speaker 5: where it's the whole girls trying to get attention from

1151
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 5: the guys sort of thing. But that was the only

1152
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 5: sort of because I always like think and look back

1153
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 5: to like is there any queerness in these movies that

1154
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 5: I was like attached to, But this one I kind

1155
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 5: of was like no, not really.

1156
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 3: Not really, which is wild because this is the team

1157
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:01,919
Speaker 3: that goes on to make Josie and the.

1158
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 2: Pussycats, which is so wild to be they're just forming up.

1159
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 1: Hello Caitlin from the future. Jumping in here with a

1160
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: little editing note. So, in the original episode that we released,

1161
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 1: we have a discussion right here about Denise based on

1162
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 1: me misunderstanding and mishearing a line of dialogue in the movie.

1163
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: Some listeners pointed out this goof of mine, and we

1164
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 1: just decided to cut that part of the conversation from

1165
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 1: the episode because it's based on something that's not at

1166
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: all canon to the movie, and it's based on me

1167
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: not hearing dialogue very well, So we didn't want to

1168
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: mislead listeners, So you know, we just thought it best

1169
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 1: to remove that part of the conversation. But it did

1170
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: bring us back to the topic of the Denise character,

1171
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: so we'll just jump back in where that conversation picks

1172
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: back up. So back to the episode.

1173
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 3: But it just, I mean, I think it just at

1174
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 3: my core pains me. I've mean in the same way

1175
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 3: where anytime you see a cool girl who deserves the

1176
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 3: best end up with the Kenny Fishers of the world,

1177
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 3: it just like it really and I feel like the

1178
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 3: movie is at least a little more self aware about that.

1179
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 3: Because it references the fact that like they're not gonna

1180
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 3: stay together I hope forever where they're like they broa gout,

1181
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 3: they got back together. So it's like it seems like

1182
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 3: it's a summer before college kind.

1183
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 5: Of thing situation.

1184
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's still it hurts to see a girl

1185
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 3: like Dedise Fleming who just really has everything going for her.

1186
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 5: Quite literally, like truly.

1187
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 1: Well, also like it feels to me like the movie

1188
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 1: is kind of setting up some arc for her where

1189
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: she goes to the party that she's reluctant to go to.

1190
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: You see her just kind of like walking around by herself.

1191
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 1: She retreats into herself the way that you know many

1192
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: introverted people do. She has a hard time, you know,

1193
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: striking up conversations. And so I'm hoping because I didn't

1194
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: totally remember how the different events of this story played out.

1195
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: As I was prepping for this episode, I was like, oh,

1196
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 1: hopefully like she meets a friend. It would be nice

1197
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 1: if she had a female friend who she could connect to.

1198
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 3: And it stinks because I do like how the structure

1199
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 3: of this movie allows for like B and C plot,

1200
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 3: Like it feels like, in a way just kind of

1201
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 3: like a really long TV episode, because like what's going

1202
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 3: on with Denise and Kenny.

1203
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 2: Is just like an episode of something.

1204
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 3: Yes, it's just a bottle episode happening in the middle

1205
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 3: of this larger narrative, and I like that, but I

1206
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 3: just don't like the stories.

1207
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 2: That they're choosing to plug in there.

1208
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 3: Because even if we're talking about, like, say anything, a

1209
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 3: movie that I'm not like over the mood about, but

1210
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 3: we talked about it recently and I think that like

1211
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 3: its influencers are really clearly felt in this movie. But

1212
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 3: like the friendship between Lloyd Dobbler and his best friend

1213
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 3: Corey is like we we'd talked about. I mean, it's

1214
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 3: weird to the extent that like his like best friend

1215
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 3: is just like it seems like her whole thing is

1216
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 3: talking about how much how awesome Lloyd Doppler is. But

1217
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 3: it's clear you get a lot of moments with them

1218
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 3: where it's like, this is a very warm friendship that

1219
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 3: is platonic, and like you never see that in teen movies,

1220
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 3: and theoretically that's what we're getting with Preston and Denise,

1221
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 3: but we don't actually see them together very much. And

1222
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 3: I feel like that was another thing with Denise, that

1223
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 3: just goes under explored where you It sucks because I

1224
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 3: think the two actors have really good chemistry and you

1225
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,919
Speaker 3: can feels like a real high school friendship, but they're

1226
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 3: separated for so long in these like romantic entanglements that

1227
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 3: it are not I'm bored by one kind of grossed

1228
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 3: up by the other.

1229
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's like I really do wish we had

1230
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 5: And also what's is uh Evan Embury's character like for

1231
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 5: the if you really look at watch the movie, he's

1232
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 5: also not in it like them, Like his story is

1233
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 5: not super focused. I feel like they thought like they

1234
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 5: wrote it in a way where they were just like, oh,

1235
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:05,479
Speaker 5: you know that he's trying to do this thing, so

1236
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 5: we don't really have to like fully focus on him.

1237
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 2: And we know it's gonna happen, and it's.

1238
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 5: Going to happen, so we don't have to really tell

1239
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 5: you all that. But I do think that you're right, Jamie.

1240
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 5: Their friendship was like he knows the ins and outs

1241
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 5: of who she is, Like she didn't why she didn't

1242
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 5: really want to go, she knew about this fucking letter

1243
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 5: he's been writing. And then like we don't get to

1244
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 5: see them really interact other than something that's a little

1245
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 5: bit like angry because she don't want to be there.

1246
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 5: She's dragged there and all that ditches her.

1247
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 3: And he ditches her so like immediately, and she doesn't

1248
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 3: even get the opportunity to, like, which would fill in

1249
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 3: stuck with her character be like fuck you, Yeah, I

1250
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 3: didn't want to be here and then you bailed on

1251
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 3: me to go talk to someone who doesn't know you exist.

1252
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 5: Fuck you, Like no, yeah, And I don't think that.

1253
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 5: I don't think in like new routine films either, that

1254
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 5: we really like I mean, there are more like platonic

1255
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 5: friendships between like people of like the opposite and stuff

1256
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 5: like that, but it's always I still feel like it

1257
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 5: gets still very like slapsticky where they're like somebody has

1258
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 5: to be queer, and like that is why, like it

1259
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 5: still falls into the whole like I'm straight and this

1260
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 5: is my queer best friend, and that is why we

1261
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 5: are platonic, not just because we are just fucking friends,

1262
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:25,599
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. It's always something else, like

1263
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:28,759
Speaker 5: there's another reason why of course they wouldn't be dating.

1264
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 5: Of course they're just friends.

1265
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's really frustrating. And then and then in

1266
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 2: the other corner we have Preston and Amanda and I

1267
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 2: I don't.

1268
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 3: Know, So we've sort of touched on this a little

1269
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 3: bit already, where I like, don't dislike Amanda as a character. Again,

1270
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 3: we get more from her than I was expecting it

1271
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 3: just the plot ultimately, I think kind of bails on

1272
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 3: her because I thought that in the scene before it

1273
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 3: turns into cousin ins. But this scene where she's like

1274
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 3: explaining for like, I, you know, wasn't a popular girl

1275
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 3: in middle school. It wasn't until I moved to this school,

1276
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 3: and like was sort of like selected quote unquote to be.

1277
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 2: A popular girl.

1278
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 3: And I don't want to end this relationship because I

1279
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 3: don't know how to define myself.

1280
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 2: Outside of it. Like it was pretty like I was

1281
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 2: like into that. I like that.

1282
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 3: I mean you could argue in comparison to the other

1283
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:31,759
Speaker 3: popular girls, she's very not like other girl types because

1284
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 3: the other women are really like bimbo stereotyped, and they

1285
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:41,679
Speaker 3: like very vapideously turn on each other if male attention

1286
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 3: is on the table, and so I found that frustrating.

1287
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 1: Although it is subversive that one of the popular girls

1288
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,600
Speaker 1: has seen the movie twelve monkeys and can speak to

1289
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: it like.

1290
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 2: It's true she hasn't in her life let her speak.

1291
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 5: I don't I hate Amanda. I do hate that she's

1292
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:05,600
Speaker 5: like I always, like I said, I always was like

1293
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 5: she was the one where I was like, oh, I

1294
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 5: want to be her, you know, And I think I

1295
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,919
Speaker 5: hated the only thing I hated now, But I probably

1296
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 5: really wanted that she was like hot but secret smart,

1297
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying, Like she secretly is like

1298
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:24,639
Speaker 5: aware of literally everything that's going on, which we get

1299
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 5: in this monologue that she does where she's like hyper aware,

1300
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 5: but she couldn't because, like you said, she didn't have

1301
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 5: her own she was not ready to be who she

1302
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 5: was on her own. So that was one of the

1303
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 5: only things I really was like after rewatching, being like

1304
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 5: we made her like stupid for no reason or not stupid,

1305
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 5: but just being like, I'm just pretty and that's it,

1306
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,559
Speaker 5: like airy, because it was very clear that she was

1307
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 5: aware of her popularity, but like of a bunch of

1308
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 5: other things, but she never put it out there because

1309
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 5: she was like, this is not what these people care about,

1310
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 5: and I need to keep being this person while in

1311
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:03,560
Speaker 5: high school anyway, So yeah.

1312
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: Right, and then that gave her an identity crisis, and

1313
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 1: she's like, I don't know who I am if I'm

1314
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 1: not dating Mike. But then that, to me sets up

1315
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 1: an arc where she's going to then discover something about herself,

1316
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 1: maybe shoes.

1317
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 2: And not just jump into another relationship.

1318
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, exactly with.

1319
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 5: A guy that's kind of worse than Mike, because this guy, like.

1320
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 3: I read it in different ways, but at very least

1321
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 3: a lateral move. Yeah, it's just that that's what I

1322
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:39,599
Speaker 3: found frustrating. It's like in because she is very clearly typed,

1323
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 3: not like other girls. I wouldn't say that's a fault

1324
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 3: of the Amanda character as much as how the other

1325
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 3: girls are written. It does feel very regressive to be like,

1326
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 3: only one girl could be hot and nice and can read.

1327
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 3: And you're like, it's it's actually most of them, not

1328
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:00,519
Speaker 3: all of them, you know, but it is many, many

1329
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 3: of them. But any case, as far as like what

1330
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 3: Amanda's character, I like most of what she says, but

1331
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 3: then what she does is often in direct opposition to it.

1332
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 3: I really liked that speech of yeah, like how to

1333
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,800
Speaker 3: like the identity crisis, but then what happens after that,

1334
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 3: She's assaulted by her cousin. It's this weird, horrible nineties joke.

1335
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 3: And then she finds this letter. I understand why you

1336
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 3: would be charmed by whatever the fuck is in that letter.

1337
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 3: But but but it then it just like it's always

1338
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:36,679
Speaker 3: in contradiction because I really like her speech shouting down Preston,

1339
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 3: like we were talking about where she was just like

1340
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 3: you don't know me. We see her receive a lot

1341
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:43,640
Speaker 3: of male attention she doesn't want. She has to like

1342
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 3: be literally physically pushing people away from her. The outburst

1343
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 3: makes total sense, and she's right, Preston doesn't know her,

1344
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 3: and that doesn't change. It's not like all of a

1345
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 3: sudden they like, I don't know, I don't know if

1346
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 3: you if these characters absolutely have to end up together.

1347
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 3: I feel like there has to be some sort of

1348
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 3: like time passes or they have like a long talk

1349
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:08,480
Speaker 3: or like they can't not talk.

1350
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 5: Because it was literally the next day. It was the

1351
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:14,640
Speaker 5: next day, not even day, like it was like the

1352
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:16,000
Speaker 5: party ended probably like.

1353
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 1: What twelve hours later.

1354
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, and she shows up with her angel shirt on

1355
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 5: and like, hey, let's be the g you know me now.

1356
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 5: It's just like there needed to be some time passing.

1357
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 5: But at that point we were already like, what eighty

1358
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 5: some minutes into the movie, so they were like, we

1359
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 5: all wrapped this up, like.

1360
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like I like everything she says, but

1361
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:40,719
Speaker 3: it doesn't match up with what she does, and she's

1362
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:45,560
Speaker 3: still just like tossed from one man who doesn't understand

1363
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 3: her and wants to define her based on what he's

1364
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,120
Speaker 3: projecting at her to look guy, a guy that's gonna

1365
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 3: do the same thing in a new and interesting way,

1366
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 3: in a new way.

1367
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we also don't know.

1368
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 2: What her dreams are.

1369
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 5: Which was so crazy because her high school quote too

1370
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:02,720
Speaker 5: was first of all, it was Jewel, which was very

1371
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 5: aligned with me and I was kind of middle school

1372
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 5: because Pieces of You, I was like, I wore that

1373
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:13,560
Speaker 5: song out as though I was previously an unhoused Alaskan

1374
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 5: person like I ate like, but they made her so,

1375
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know, but it was something about

1376
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 5: her using Jewel as her like quote of being like

1377
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:27,839
Speaker 5: I don't know who I am. It was always something

1378
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,640
Speaker 5: more to who she is, but we don't get to

1379
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:34,679
Speaker 5: ever figure out what that is.

1380
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,759
Speaker 1: We learn zero things about her because like it says

1381
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 1: like her future plans colon undecided, but that doesn't mean

1382
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 1: she still can't have interests or like the avenues she

1383
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 1: might pursue. But instead we just know nothing about her,

1384
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:50,839
Speaker 1: nothing about her.

1385
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 3: And I think that that like would really help the

1386
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 3: conflict that the movie is always sort of like restoking

1387
01:14:56,760 --> 01:15:00,719
Speaker 3: and abandoning about, like her kind of crisis of self. What, Okay,

1388
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:04,600
Speaker 3: you don't want to be missus popular? What do you

1389
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:06,680
Speaker 3: want to be? Or like what parts of yourself did

1390
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 3: you have to suppress to be in this relationship successfully?

1391
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 3: And that's that's maybe an in for Preston of like

1392
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 3: you know, and it would be the most hokey teen

1393
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:17,599
Speaker 3: movie thing eve ever. But she's like, you know, I

1394
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 3: just really love reading kurvonic it, you know, just like

1395
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 3: it's not that complicated, like it's like give them something,

1396
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 3: but it's like they don't. There's there's nothing keeping these

1397
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 3: two together except that she knows that he is infatuated

1398
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 3: with her, but we were just told that she's kind

1399
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 3: of put off and disgusted by that, Yeah, because that's

1400
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 3: not based on who she is.

1401
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:42,479
Speaker 2: It's just kind of a mess.

1402
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, And we don't know anything about her ever, and

1403
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 5: he doesn't know anything about her, her friends don't really

1404
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 5: know anything about her. Mike never really knew anything about her.

1405
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 5: So it was kind of the setup of being like,

1406
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 5: we're gonna learn some shit about her, right like, and

1407
01:15:57,640 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 5: then you're right, we get that monologue, but then we

1408
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 5: ultimately nothing. But I don't know. I think maybe I

1409
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 5: wanted to, Like, I think I was so attached to

1410
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 5: her because this is gonna sound little hokey myself, but

1411
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 5: I was very misunderstood, and I was like, oh, she

1412
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 5: and I And ultimately she is misunderstood, right, whether it's

1413
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 5: like teen drama situation or not, she just is. And

1414
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:22,720
Speaker 5: I think she was the first teen girl character that

1415
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,600
Speaker 5: I had seen in a movie that was all the

1416
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:30,679
Speaker 5: way throughout like she was just misunderstood. She didn't really

1417
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:33,679
Speaker 5: have any like growth or change or like come into

1418
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 5: the person she would like disturb her behavior Katie Holmes

1419
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 5: like she fucking figured her shit out by the end

1420
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:41,599
Speaker 5: of the movie. All these movies, even Jennifer Love hewittt

1421
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 5: and I Know What You Did Last Summer, which I

1422
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,280
Speaker 5: think also came about that, yeah, same year, same year.

1423
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:50,959
Speaker 5: She ultimately figures out who she like, she comes into herself,

1424
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 5: And I think this character did it and at the time,

1425
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,519
Speaker 5: like I wasn't. So it was a very clear cut

1426
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 5: case of like, yes, I'm gay, but I don't want

1427
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:01,559
Speaker 5: to kiss her. This one girl in this movie, I

1428
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:04,680
Speaker 5: just want to like be her, you know. It was crazy.

1429
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,559
Speaker 3: It's I don't know, I mean, and it's I wouldn't

1430
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 3: say that. I mean, I think we've covered a lot

1431
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:11,759
Speaker 3: of movies kind of like this recently.

1432
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that.

1433
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:17,879
Speaker 3: She's like significantly less written than other.

1434
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 1: Characters, which is sad and the bar is low, something

1435
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:23,479
Speaker 1: we're always reminded of.

1436
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 3: And I also think it's like that's kind of what

1437
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 3: tends to happen in a movie with five thousand characters,

1438
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 3: Like that's just kind of like what happens in an

1439
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 3: ensemble comedy. But it's if we're what we are told

1440
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 3: about her is underdeveloped and not really paid off in

1441
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:42,120
Speaker 3: like how she acts. But I like but it sucks

1442
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:43,599
Speaker 3: because I like I do like her.

1443
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like her.

1444
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 1: I like her, I like Denise, and neither of them

1445
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:55,880
Speaker 1: are given that much characterization beyond the very surface level thing.

1446
01:17:56,280 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, I feel like we know multiple things about

1447
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,960
Speaker 1: each of the major male characters.

1448
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:03,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that.

1449
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 1: Same characterization isn't lent to the only like two girls

1450
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:12,880
Speaker 1: who have major roles in the movie.

1451
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:17,720
Speaker 5: So, yeah, peepee poop poo, also peepee poo poo, are

1452
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 5: uh please, I've got some more pepee poo pooh. Okay,

1453
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,600
Speaker 5: we've touched on a few of these already. But just

1454
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 5: the way that, like the teens talk to each other

1455
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 5: and treat each other, it's stuff that's very common for

1456
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 5: this era, both in like real life, because you know,

1457
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:41,719
Speaker 5: I was I was a little younger than these kids

1458
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 5: were in nineteen ninety eight, but I remember the stuff

1459
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:47,080
Speaker 5: that people were saying to each other and how they

1460
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:50,800
Speaker 5: were treating each other very common for that era. But

1461
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 5: as we were saying earlier, the movie just doesn't want

1462
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:58,600
Speaker 5: to challenge any of that behavior. It's more just like

1463
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:01,519
Speaker 5: presenting it as a noise normal part of late nineties

1464
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:05,400
Speaker 5: high school culture. The way that you know, several characters

1465
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 5: body shame each other, say ablest things to each other,

1466
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 5: call each other homophobic slurs. The nerds like revenge plan

1467
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:19,559
Speaker 5: against the jocks is like homophobic revenge porn. That one was, Yeah,

1468
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 5: that was the bust.

1469
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 3: I think I just like I really detest a revenge

1470
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:25,720
Speaker 3: of the Nerds scenario.

1471
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 2: They age so.

1472
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 3: Unbelievably poorly because now they're billionaires and ruining the world,

1473
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 3: Like I'm not. I'm simply not rooting for him, even.

1474
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:41,480
Speaker 5: Like my first watching, Like when I first watched this movie,

1475
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 5: I kind of probably fast forward. After the first or

1476
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,360
Speaker 5: second watch, I probably fast forward. It passed a lot

1477
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:50,320
Speaker 5: of their plot. And that was one movie too. That

1478
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 5: was one like range of movies that I never really touched.

1479
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:54,799
Speaker 5: I only needed one was like Revenge of the Nerds,

1480
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 5: and there's so many of them. That was one because

1481
01:19:57,360 --> 01:19:58,680
Speaker 5: there was a time I was obsessed with like an

1482
01:19:58,720 --> 01:20:01,840
Speaker 5: eighties comedy teen. I saw one of those and I

1483
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 5: was like, this is enough, Like this.

1484
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 2: Is They're all the same.

1485
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 5: They are all the same.

1486
01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:10,440
Speaker 3: They always involve something like it's either a deeply homophobic

1487
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,480
Speaker 3: or misogynist revenge plan.

1488
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 2: That involves a gadget, and you're just like this fucking sucks.

1489
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:21,080
Speaker 3: And it also like sucks for like actual nerds, Like

1490
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:24,400
Speaker 3: it's not fair to actual nerds because they it makes

1491
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:27,599
Speaker 3: them out to be like villains and it's like no.

1492
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,639
Speaker 2: It's just you can you can just watch Star Trek

1493
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 2: like it's truly all good.

1494
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:34,639
Speaker 5: It's totally fine. Yeah.

1495
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:38,599
Speaker 1: Yeah. The way those movies characterize nerds is characterizing them

1496
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:42,040
Speaker 1: as being as toxic as the jocks, just like in

1497
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: a different way. And again it's just putting people into

1498
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 1: boxes and you know all that stuff. A few other

1499
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:52,480
Speaker 1: of these Pepe Poopoo things is there's a foreign exchange

1500
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:56,160
Speaker 1: student and a bunch of jokes are made at the

1501
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:59,439
Speaker 1: expense of someone who doesn't speak English as their first language.

1502
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 1: Like some of the kids are teaching him phrases that

1503
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 1: like they're like, yeah, just say this to people. And

1504
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 1: one of them is like, would you like to touch

1505
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 1: my penis? And then he says that to Preston and

1506
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:11,559
Speaker 1: Preston's like, oh yuck.

1507
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 3: And you're like, yeah, that is a gross thing to

1508
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:17,000
Speaker 3: say to someone. But it's all you know, Like it's

1509
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 3: all you know. It's the same old bullshit.

1510
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 1: It's the same thing. Also, there's the kid who steals

1511
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 1: stuff in the.

1512
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:27,120
Speaker 5: Favorite character for some reason, I don't know why.

1513
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:30,679
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I do have to say I was this kid

1514
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 3: at parties. I once went to an mi I t

1515
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 3: frat party my freshman year of college and I got

1516
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:39,960
Speaker 3: in big trouble because what the one of the boys

1517
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 3: that lived on my floor. His brother was in the frat,

1518
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 3: and so we got like the plug, we got to go,

1519
01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:48,680
Speaker 3: and I drank a ton of vodka and stole two

1520
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 3: pool balls. Whoa, and just I was like, I'm not

1521
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 3: going to steal them all. I'm just gonna make it unusable.

1522
01:21:55,439 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 3: I was just like feeling really diabolical, and then I

1523
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:01,960
Speaker 3: was some I was traced back to me. Shockingly, I

1524
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 3: probably wasn't that slick. Yeah, I felt connected to the

1525
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 3: kid that goes to a rich person party and steals things,

1526
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 3: just takes things.

1527
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair, Yeah, I mean we all should be stealing

1528
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:15,599
Speaker 1: from the rich. But I feel like what's happening here

1529
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:20,760
Speaker 1: in this movie is like a joke being made of kleptomania,

1530
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 1: or like the media's interpretation of that, which is like,

1531
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 1: you know, a real condition.

1532
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:28,439
Speaker 2: Certainly a real thing.

1533
01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 3: I guess I was just interpreting it more as like

1534
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:33,719
Speaker 3: I'm at a party at a rich guy's house.

1535
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:36,759
Speaker 1: No, because you see him like steal from the convenience store,

1536
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:39,680
Speaker 1: you see him steal from the dining.

1537
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 5: He takes the gumball machine.

1538
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:44,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he steals a cop car, which also we should

1539
01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 1: be stealing from Kimos as well.

1540
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 2: I just like, I think that that character.

1541
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:51,479
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I appreciate, like I don't want to make

1542
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:55,519
Speaker 3: light of kleptomania. And also I'm like, this kid's generally

1543
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:56,960
Speaker 3: doing good practice by me.

1544
01:22:57,120 --> 01:23:01,480
Speaker 1: I don't see you know the problem.

1545
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:06,600
Speaker 5: To me, he like was just like very background. But

1546
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 5: that guy his name is Chris Owen. He's from Rour. Look,

1547
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:14,120
Speaker 5: so he's from a city in Michigan that's like five

1548
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:19,400
Speaker 5: minutes after Detroit. And he's also like just been a

1549
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:22,400
Speaker 5: weirdo in so many he's an American pie.

1550
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: Like, he's all, he's just kid, an American pie. I'm

1551
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 1: pretty sure. Who like keeps pretending that he's the terminator.

1552
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:32,880
Speaker 1: I feel like he's is He also the kid in

1553
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 1: a different teen movie where there's something about pubes on pizza.

1554
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 1: I think this is why does that sound familiar? She's

1555
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 1: all that.

1556
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:44,599
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, he's like the kid who has to eat

1557
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:47,360
Speaker 5: pubes on it's his pubes that get put on the

1558
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:48,719
Speaker 5: pizza or something.

1559
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:53,759
Speaker 2: I have mercifully wiped this from my memory because.

1560
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:54,280
Speaker 1: That came up.

1561
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:56,040
Speaker 5: She's all that came I gotta watch she's all that

1562
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,960
Speaker 5: again tonight. Anyway, that's what that's happening. For us. But yeah,

1563
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 5: so I kind of just was like, this guy is

1564
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:04,439
Speaker 5: just background to me, and I think like it was

1565
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 5: supposed to be like a Kitschy teen thing.

1566
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. A few other they're

1567
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:12,640
Speaker 1: not really cameos because these people weren't famous yet, but

1568
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 1: it's like people who would we would go into it

1569
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 1: on to recognize. You see Melissa Joan Hart, she has

1570
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:22,120
Speaker 1: one of the bigger roles of these like minor characters.

1571
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:23,360
Speaker 2: I think she's killing it.

1572
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got Clay Duval, You've got Amber Benson aka

1573
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:28,599
Speaker 1: Tara from Buffy.

1574
01:24:29,479 --> 01:24:32,759
Speaker 2: Oh see, I didn't watch Buffet.

1575
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:37,840
Speaker 1: She's there. Selma Blair has a tiny little appearance Blair

1576
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:41,360
Speaker 1: Jason Siegel does. And then breck and Meyer and Donald

1577
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:43,800
Speaker 1: Faison are in a band together, and I think that

1578
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:48,320
Speaker 1: they also recruit Seth Green and then form jo from

1579
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:49,519
Speaker 1: Josie and the Pussy Kids.

1580
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 2: Oh that's so cool.

1581
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:52,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm missing people.

1582
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:55,759
Speaker 5: But there's also mine that I pulled because this movie

1583
01:24:55,880 --> 01:25:00,760
Speaker 5: is stacked. Right. This movie is wildly Leslie Grossmith, who

1584
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:04,200
Speaker 5: I fucking loved. So she's the girl that the original

1585
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,320
Speaker 5: girl that Seth Green is going to hook up with.

1586
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:09,679
Speaker 5: She's the one who's talking to her friend. And Leslie

1587
01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:13,759
Speaker 5: Grossman is did you watch The Good Place a little bit? Yes,

1588
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:18,559
Speaker 5: she's the main character's mom. She's also in Popular from

1589
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:21,439
Speaker 5: the nineties, which is one of my favorite shows from

1590
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 5: the nineties, is Popular, And Sarah Rue is in this too,

1591
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 5: who was also Unpopular. She's the sheep girl who's like,

1592
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:33,639
Speaker 5: you're all sheep. There's Jamie Presley, Selma Blair, yeah.

1593
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:33,880
Speaker 4: Oh.

1594
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:36,439
Speaker 5: Leslie Grossman was also an American horror story. Maybe you

1595
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 5: know from that, but she is. But my favorite part

1596
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:45,760
Speaker 5: of the little cameos and stuff is just that I think,

1597
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:49,679
Speaker 5: did you all remember Popular or watched Popular or ever

1598
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:52,760
Speaker 5: heard of Popular? To me, it feels like a fever dream.

1599
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:56,280
Speaker 5: But I know it's real because i Wikipedia tells me so.

1600
01:25:58,160 --> 01:26:00,920
Speaker 5: But Sarah Rue and Leslie Grossman and the show called Popular,

1601
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,240
Speaker 5: and it's like two sisters who parents they're well their

1602
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 5: parents get married, so they become stepsisters, one popular ones not.

1603
01:26:06,439 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 5: It's just so it's so good, and I suggested everyone

1604
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:12,240
Speaker 5: fucking like try to get your hands on Popular if

1605
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:14,640
Speaker 5: you can. But Sama Blair, yeah, she's in it. And

1606
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 5: then Cruel Intentions comes out the next year, so yeah, this.

1607
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:21,080
Speaker 3: Is like she's she's on the cusps on it. Yeah,

1608
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 3: this is just a deeply, profoundly ninety spoofy head to

1609
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:27,479
Speaker 3: toe for good reasons and bad.

1610
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:28,600
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1611
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:31,400
Speaker 1: Does anyone have anything else they want to talk about?

1612
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 5: I know, oh yeah. The only other thing that I

1613
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:38,360
Speaker 5: have is that the song that Amanda walks into like

1614
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:40,800
Speaker 5: Sneaker Pimps six Underground has always been one of my

1615
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 5: favorite songs, and it's because of this movie. And I've

1616
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:47,360
Speaker 5: always loved that song. And I like had a little

1617
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:50,400
Speaker 5: trivia thing where I was able to name that song

1618
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:53,320
Speaker 5: and people were like, why do you know that song?

1619
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 5: And I was like, can't Harley wait? And it was

1620
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:56,800
Speaker 5: like one of the best experiences in my.

1621
01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:58,919
Speaker 2: Life, Like way all that rock.

1622
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:01,040
Speaker 5: I like did a Yeah, it was so cool.

1623
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:02,040
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, this is.

1624
01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:05,320
Speaker 5: Like all right. I was like, yeah, I stayed in

1625
01:27:05,320 --> 01:27:06,760
Speaker 5: my room a lot when I was a kid.

1626
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 3: But I love that when the indoor kid, when you

1627
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:14,760
Speaker 3: have like an indoor kid jump out, it's just it's

1628
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:18,480
Speaker 3: really there's so few, but we get so few opportunities.

1629
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:22,040
Speaker 2: It's great to see. Yeah, yeah, I wanted to.

1630
01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, the the double smash mouth, You're not like walking

1631
01:27:26,479 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 3: on the Sun.

1632
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what about walking on the Sun twice? And

1633
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:33,519
Speaker 2: I was like, that is an interesting question. Uh, it's tricky.

1634
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 3: Busta rhymes blank twenty two thirty blind, Missy Elliott.

1635
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 2: It's just like, yeah, it feels good, it feels good.

1636
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:46,479
Speaker 1: Anyway, does this movie past the Bechdel test?

1637
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:47,600
Speaker 2: I don't think so.

1638
01:27:48,200 --> 01:27:51,400
Speaker 1: I would say no. I think the popular girls talk

1639
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:56,160
Speaker 1: to Amanda about Gwyneth Paltrow, but the context is still

1640
01:27:56,160 --> 01:27:59,240
Speaker 1: about Mike Dexter. And also, we don't really know those girls' names.

1641
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:03,000
Speaker 1: They're label as like girlfriend number one, girlfriend number two,

1642
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:06,960
Speaker 1: et cetera. And then like Denise doesn't really talk to

1643
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:10,200
Speaker 1: any other women. There's a few women who approach her,

1644
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:13,479
Speaker 1: or there's like a girl who approaches her, but again

1645
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:16,680
Speaker 1: we don't know these characters' names, and the conversations are

1646
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:20,200
Speaker 1: not that narratively important. So I would say yeah, spiritually

1647
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 1: no to passing the Bechdel test.

1648
01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's like spiritually and possibly literally really

1649
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 3: well yeah, because if it does pass, it's nothing of importance.

1650
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:36,160
Speaker 3: There's no meaningful relationships between women, which which not for nothing,

1651
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 3: does echo a lot of the issues we had with

1652
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,840
Speaker 3: say anything, where it's like, right, Andy, and still I

1653
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 3: think Say Anything did a better job of like Diane

1654
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 3: and Corey at least talk. Do they talk about Lloyd Dobbler? Yes,

1655
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 3: But do they talk yes? Yeah, It's like women don't

1656
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:51,320
Speaker 3: really talk to each other in this movie.

1657
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 2: It's kind of interesting. However, it is co written and

1658
01:28:55,120 --> 01:29:00,200
Speaker 2: co directed by a woman, Deborah Kaplan, and so I

1659
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:03,240
Speaker 2: want to be sure to that never happens. And also,

1660
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 2: two women producers are leading the top line of this

1661
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:13,400
Speaker 2: Geno Topping, which is kind of an incredible name, as

1662
01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:15,080
Speaker 2: well as Betty Thomas.

1663
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:18,439
Speaker 3: So it's not as if there's not women involved in

1664
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:21,479
Speaker 3: the production. There's quite a few women involved in the production. However,

1665
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 3: very very white production on the crew side, certainly. So

1666
01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 3: let's put this movie to the test of a proper

1667
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:32,000
Speaker 3: metric of.

1668
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:36,599
Speaker 1: A generation the nipple scale zero to five nipples, where

1669
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:41,639
Speaker 1: we rate the movie examining it through an intersectional feminist lens.

1670
01:29:41,960 --> 01:29:45,040
Speaker 1: I feel like I can only give this like I

1671
01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:48,439
Speaker 1: think one nipple is even sort of being generous. It

1672
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:51,719
Speaker 1: is a fun, enjoyable movie, but it's got a whole

1673
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:56,400
Speaker 1: slew of problems, just you know, presenting teens being horrible

1674
01:29:56,479 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 1: to each other and like screaming homophobic slurs constantly without

1675
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:05,599
Speaker 1: anyone batting an eye. The two main female characters are

1676
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:11,360
Speaker 1: both I would say, pretty underdeveloped, and their storylines revolve

1677
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:17,280
Speaker 1: around some romance with a man and the again the

1678
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:23,439
Speaker 1: Kenny Fisher and his just whole thing, and the centering

1679
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:26,760
Speaker 1: of white characters in general. All of that stuff also

1680
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:30,200
Speaker 1: seth Green's character pease and then doesn't wash his hands.

1681
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:33,880
Speaker 2: So I think that's realism.

1682
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:39,640
Speaker 1: I mean, the teenage the hygiene of teenage boys is

1683
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:43,759
Speaker 1: risc is certainly horrible. I do appreciate any teen movie

1684
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:48,400
Speaker 1: that doesn't end in prom I appreciate that there's a

1685
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:52,719
Speaker 1: character who's a sex worker and she's not shamed for

1686
01:30:53,040 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 1: her job.

1687
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:55,679
Speaker 2: Now she's a little angel.

1688
01:30:56,240 --> 01:31:00,519
Speaker 1: She's an angel. Yes, But there's a whole slew of

1689
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 1: other problems. But there are some like kind of minor

1690
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:09,080
Speaker 1: subversions here and there, but not enough to make it feel.

1691
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:10,120
Speaker 2: A lot of the beginnings.

1692
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:11,880
Speaker 3: I feel like we talked about this where it's like

1693
01:31:11,880 --> 01:31:14,360
Speaker 3: it starts to subvert something and then kind of chickens

1694
01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:16,400
Speaker 3: out and goes back to what you.

1695
01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 2: Expect would happen.

1696
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:21,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'll go one nipple actually and I'll give

1697
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:24,960
Speaker 1: the nipple to the movie Josie and the Pussycats.

1698
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:28,719
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go one nipple as well.

1699
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:31,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that there are moments in this movie

1700
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:34,080
Speaker 3: that creep up towards saying something.

1701
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:34,439
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1702
01:31:34,479 --> 01:31:37,920
Speaker 3: It's so of its time where my I understand why

1703
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:41,000
Speaker 3: there's a lot of nostalgia for this movie. There's so many,

1704
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:44,320
Speaker 3: like extremely nineties things about it. But I'm okay with

1705
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 3: leaving it in nineteen ninety eight. I don't think I'll

1706
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:49,120
Speaker 3: be really returning to it. I have no attachment to it.

1707
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 3: A double smash mouths drop. Why I could just go

1708
01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:55,559
Speaker 3: watch Shrek. You know, if I wanted to hear the

1709
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:58,360
Speaker 3: same smash mouth song twice, I could go watch Shrek one.

1710
01:31:59,160 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 1: But I don't know.

1711
01:31:59,880 --> 01:32:02,120
Speaker 3: I think that there is certainly stuff to like about

1712
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 3: this movie. I like Amanda. I wish that there was

1713
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:10,040
Speaker 3: more coherence with her storyline. I think that there And

1714
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 3: I like Denise, and I wish that there was more

1715
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:15,200
Speaker 3: coherence with her storyline. There's a lot of interesting characters

1716
01:32:15,240 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 3: in this movie that I wish were talking to each other,

1717
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:20,960
Speaker 3: but they're always talking to a person that I'm not.

1718
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:23,559
Speaker 2: Very interested in. Yeah, and that's a shame.

1719
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:27,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, ultimately very dated, and I'm going to give it

1720
01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:30,599
Speaker 3: one nipple, and I'm going to give it to Jenna

1721
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:34,599
Speaker 3: Elfman's character because I really that I think is the

1722
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:37,840
Speaker 3: one actual, like I could say, like firmly, that felt

1723
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 3: like a subversive scene to show a sex worker who

1724
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:45,080
Speaker 3: has a meaningful moment in the plot, who is not

1725
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:49,080
Speaker 3: shamed or blamed and moves the plot forward like that

1726
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:53,880
Speaker 3: never happens and good for that scene.

1727
01:32:54,280 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 2: One nipple.

1728
01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:58,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think from the lens that we're examining it

1729
01:32:58,600 --> 01:33:01,679
Speaker 5: from outside of and this happens with ever movie I've

1730
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:04,799
Speaker 5: ever bought on this podcast, It's been like this movie

1731
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:09,840
Speaker 5: in general to me, eight nipples, but from the Londons

1732
01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:13,559
Speaker 5: that we are, Yeah, the lens that we're examining it from,

1733
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:16,479
Speaker 5: this absolutely gets like I think, I honestly one and

1734
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:19,480
Speaker 5: a half. And I think it's mainly because of Amanda

1735
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,200
Speaker 5: Beckett's character, because that's what really made me love the

1736
01:33:22,240 --> 01:33:25,599
Speaker 5: movie so much anyway, And I really do think we

1737
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 5: were on the cusp of like really exploring her, but

1738
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:31,880
Speaker 5: like you said, they chickened out with her, and yeah,

1739
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 5: I think so. My one nipple goes to just like

1740
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:39,840
Speaker 5: what Amanda could be. And then the half goes to

1741
01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:43,599
Speaker 5: her outfit because that's been one of the outfits of

1742
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:47,000
Speaker 5: my and I had that outfit like a few years ago.

1743
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:51,320
Speaker 5: I did a revamp on it, but see outfit because

1744
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 5: it's super cute and chill and simple. But yeah, so

1745
01:33:55,479 --> 01:33:57,640
Speaker 5: one and a half one and a half nipples, but

1746
01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 5: eight Shelley nipples because it's incredible.

1747
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:02,840
Speaker 1: Well, of course there's the Shelley scale, and then.

1748
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:09,320
Speaker 5: There's scale, there's there's this all. Yeah, there's a whole

1749
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:10,080
Speaker 5: thing going on.

1750
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:13,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, thank you so much for joining us again.

1751
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:17,599
Speaker 3: This was, as always another welcome to the Three Timers Club.

1752
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:21,519
Speaker 3: At five appearances, you get a jacket. We've been lying

1753
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:22,440
Speaker 3: for years.

1754
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 2: Someday I'm so happy.

1755
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:30,080
Speaker 1: I love it here, come back anytime. Where can people

1756
01:34:30,760 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 1: check out your writing and follow you online? Et cetera.

1757
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:38,519
Speaker 5: I am so I'm mainly doing a lot of work

1758
01:34:38,560 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 5: on my substack. It's my weekly newsletter and it's high

1759
01:34:43,280 --> 01:34:47,320
Speaker 5: Shelley s H E L L I dot net. But

1760
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:49,720
Speaker 5: you have to like type in the w W W

1761
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:52,040
Speaker 5: dot two or else it will tell you that like

1762
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:56,400
Speaker 5: it's parked, and that's a lie anyway, And I'm a

1763
01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:59,040
Speaker 5: O Shelley A y O s h E L I

1764
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:04,439
Speaker 5: on I and Hi Shelly on x Twitter whatever that part,

1765
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:07,720
Speaker 5: and yeah, so that's what I do. I love this,

1766
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:10,040
Speaker 5: I love coming on here makes me so happy.

1767
01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:11,960
Speaker 1: We love having you come back soon.

1768
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:17,080
Speaker 3: You can find us in all the normal places, Instagram, X, Twitter,

1769
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:19,679
Speaker 3: whatever the fuck it is At Bechdel Cast. You can

1770
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:24,639
Speaker 3: follow our Patreon akamatreon over at patreon dot com slash

1771
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:28,000
Speaker 3: Bechdel Cast. That's five dollars a month for two bonus

1772
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:30,000
Speaker 3: episodes a month, as well as access to a back

1773
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:34,960
Speaker 3: catalog of over one hundred and fifty episodes. This month

1774
01:35:35,200 --> 01:35:38,439
Speaker 3: we are doing is what are we call calling this month?

1775
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:41,400
Speaker 1: Oh it's Wedding Weebruary. How could you even forget?

1776
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:41,880
Speaker 5: God?

1777
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:47,640
Speaker 3: That was literally my genius idea. And yes, it's Wedding Weebruary.

1778
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:52,360
Speaker 3: We're covering Ready or Not and twenty seven dresses. So

1779
01:35:52,400 --> 01:35:55,920
Speaker 3: we're just going for the range of wedding movie vibes.

1780
01:35:56,200 --> 01:35:59,479
Speaker 2: Yes, so check us out over there. We always have

1781
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:00,960
Speaker 2: a bless yes.

1782
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:04,280
Speaker 1: And speaking of having a blast, and speaking of Shreky,

1783
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:08,080
Speaker 1: we've got our upcoming Shrek Tannic tour right now. We've

1784
01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:11,519
Speaker 1: got shows in a handful of cities in the UK

1785
01:36:12,120 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 1: in late May. Check our link Tree, link Tree slash

1786
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:22,000
Speaker 1: spectol Cast for more details and to grab your tickets.

1787
01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:26,200
Speaker 2: And uh, that does it for us.

1788
01:36:26,280 --> 01:36:28,720
Speaker 3: I guess Let's go to Union Station and bord A

1789
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:30,280
Speaker 3: Bust to Boston.

1790
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:33,280
Speaker 2: Let's see if we make it.

1791
01:36:33,760 --> 01:36:35,120
Speaker 5: Bye bye