WEBVTT - Trying is Winning: with Sara Haines 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.840 No one has all the answers, but when we ask 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:10.680 the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths, 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:16.520 closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.280 Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I come 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.800 together to challenge the status quo and our own ways 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:27.360 of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not? 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:29.080 And who says? 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:35.480 So? Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:42.000 time to question everything. I am coming off such a 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.360 fulfilling day or week. I have to tell you about 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.400 it before we jump into today's episode. I went to 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.840 New York for thirty six hours basically for one reason. 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:56.960 And those of you who have been listening to the 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.840 pod know that I went to Glorius Dynam's Brownstone her 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.800 to sit in her living room at the end of 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.080 last year, I think it was, and I was kind 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:08.920 of nervous because it was my first time there and 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:13.640 I just have so much reverence for her. And this 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.800 week I went back, and I'm so grateful I got 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.759 to go back because my nerves subsided. I wasn't jittery, 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.960 I was just present and taking it all in and 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:27.720 I got like forty minutes alone with her on the 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.440 couch just to talk, and you know, I asked a 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:35.759 million questions, but she's just such a special person and 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:43.720 I left thinking like this is the pinnacle of my 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:48.600 career because I can't, like, I just can't believe that 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.880 all of the like hard work and all the things 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:58.760 right led me to Glorious Steinem's couch. I've literally read 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.720 every word she's at written that I could get my 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:02.200 hands on. 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:04.880 You know, I don't have her journals, but. 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:10.519 I just I don't know if I've ever like admired 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:16.120 a person more. I'm not like a big admirer. I 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:20.560 have a lot of reverence and respect and love like 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:26.720 complimenting people and recognizing what's special in them, But the 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.880 word admire feels I don't know. I just I don't 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:34.000 say it a lot. And I really deeply admire her. 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.920 I admire how she's lived. And one of the things 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:39.720 that stood out to me I want to share with you. 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.880 So we were there for a talking circle and the 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:48.480 topic was AI. So there were two experts and a 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.840 few other people in the space, tangentially in the space, 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:56.600 and she was like really into it. I think, because 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.120 you know it, we're all sort of like learning about 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.560 AI at the same time in a lot of ways. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:06.720 So anyways, we went around the circle. We introduce ourselves 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.240 and then talked about what AI means to us, how 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.600 we're using it in our life, the positives, the negatives, 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:18.040 et cetera. And everybody talked about how they use it 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.919 in their life, so mostly chat GPT at this point, 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.639 right like, the future of AI probably looks more like robotics, 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:29.320 but right now we're using chat GPT, which is basically 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.200 a language tool. Because I don't know if you've ever 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.440 tried to have chat GPT do math, it's not so good. 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.600 It's also like mediocre at planning a trip because AI 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:42.000 doesn't have taste, right, humans have taste. But it is 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.960 really good with language because AI is only as good 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:50.440 as the data set that you input, and the data 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.600 sets they have is a lot of words, a lot 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.320 of language, a lot of writing from the internet. So anyways, 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.640 we go around the circle. I share how I've been 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.440 using it, which is I've found for myself the best 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:05.160 way is to create on my own, like write on 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:09.320 my own and then put my writing through chat GPT 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.800 to edit it to see if there's anything that I 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.359 could word better, say better, be more concise with et cetera, 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.680 and I found it to be really great. So we 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:21.800 go around the circle and everybody's explaining how they use 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.360 it and what they're thinking about, and we were all 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.080 pretty self focused. It was about how we were using 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.240 AI and Gloria was the last person to speak, and 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:37.720 she said, you know, all I keep thinking about is 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:43.960 what this means for people that live in developing countries 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.120 who don't even have access to it. What does that 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:53.719 mean for the division that that causes, for the class divide, 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:58.359 the racial divide, all of that. And I just looked 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.240 at her in awe because that is part of what 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:07.920 makes her so special. She always thinks about the least 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:12.159 privileged person, not just in the group we're sitting in, 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:17.200 but in the world. And it totally changed the conversation. 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:22.840 It turned everything into a much more robust, inclusive conversation. 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.280 And I just wanted to share that because, you know, 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.240 as much as I try to look outward all the 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.920 time and I try to think about others first. I 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.680 don't know if it's age or I don't know, Like 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.280 we all were talking about ourselves, and then Gloria spoke 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:45.400 about what it means for the least privileged person, and 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.280 it just really shifted my mindset. I really want to 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.960 try to think like that more so before we jump 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:54.640 into today's episode, which is a really fun episode, mostly 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.760 because our guest today is awesome, but also she happens 0:05:57.800 --> 0:05:59.800 to be a friend of mine, and so I feel 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:02.120 like when I know people before I interview them, it just, 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.559 you know, like changes the dynamic. But I was looking 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:11.080 at the numbers of podcast listens and it's been really 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:15.120 interesting to see what you guys are interested in. And 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.000 I feel like there's been a lot of new people 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.680 that came to the pod from listening to the Bosomas 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.719 Saint John episode, which Wow, she was one of my 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.640 favorites for sure this year, maybe even in the last 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.320 few years, Like she's just a remarkable person. But if 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.560 you're new here, there's a few things I want to share. One, 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.920 I zoom with a listener every single week, so all 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.279 you have to do is write a review or send 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.880 a screenshot of you sending the episode to two friends. 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.120 Any episode to two friends, and you're entered in the 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.039 lottery for the week, and you can enter as many 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.400 times as you want. It is the highlight of my 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.960 week for sure. But yeah, if anybody out there wants 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:59.440 to chat or your friends want to chat, that's always available. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.360 So I was looking at the most popular episodes this 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.559 year in case you need to go back and listen 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.520 to a few, and it was interesting. 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.160 The twenty twenty five My New. 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:13.040 Year's episode about five life changing moves to get ahead 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:17.880 for the year, is our second highest rated episode, and 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:21.760 the highest rated episode of the year was the first 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:26.000 one in January. Actually, it was with doctor Ellen Langer, 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.720 who is Harvard's Mother of Mindfulness, and it's about reversing 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:31.080 aging and rethinking health. 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:33.960 That one is such a must listen. 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.000 If you need to go back and haven't listened to 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.920 that one, please do. Not only is she a great storyteller, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.840 but it's one of those episodes that will literally change 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:49.960 your mindset, particularly about illness, mindfulness, the way you approach friendship. 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:59.040 It's pretty unbelievable. Okay, let's get into today's episode. There's 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.320 a video I saw in twenty nineteen that rewired my 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.360 brain and I'm not exaggerating. 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.000 Jamila Jamil posted this, I. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:13.960 See tremendous value and honor in trying stuff and I 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.720 don't believe in. I think trying is winning, and this 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:18.200 is something that I talk about a lot, and I 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.960 really genuinely believe it, and I've proven that by how 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.920 many ridiculous things I've put myself up for that would 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.560 result in global humiliation, even just my Twitter every day. 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.040 What am I doing? What am I saying? 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.360 But it's because I'm willing to put myself out there, 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.719 and because of that, via my periphery, the most incredible 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.640 opportunities have come up, and women in particular are told 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:41.880 not even to try. We are dictated to us to 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.520 what our lanes are from as soon as we can understand. 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.880 And that's so toxic because there are so many things 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:48.720 that you are all capable of that you have no 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.520 idea about because you've never even been encouraged to try, 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:53.600 because you've been fearmongered around failure. 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:55.199 Failure does not exist. 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.440 The only thing that I think failure exists in is 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.640 not ever trying. That's the biggest failure that you can commit. 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.440 And in the caption of that video, she wrote, trying 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:08.040 is winning. You're a hero for taking a chance on 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:12.040 yourself for whatever happens, and most people will be forever 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:16.000 haunted by the words, what if don't be that person? 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:18.920 Please just go for whatever it is that you love. 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:22.720 If you have the slightest opportunity to rejection still means 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.120 you are a legend for risking your pride, being hurt 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.720 to put yourself out there. That takes so much character. 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.839 I've failed a million times that I consider those as 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.080 noble as my few big wins. Do not apologize for 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.679 being ambitious and thinking outside the box that you have 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.560 been forced into by the people around you. You know, 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.040 I just mentioned that I zoom with one listener a 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:47.760 week right. People ask me about creative endeavors, about their businesses, 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:52.120 about public speaking, about career transitions. Sometimes we talk about 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.720 things that I am not an expert in. And you 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:59.760 know what, I realized, people are asking for permission most 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:04.640 of them time, permission to begin, permission to be seen, 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.319 permission to risk, permission to want more than they've been 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:13.199 told they're allowed to want, Permission to just freaking go 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.000 for it, to go for whatever it is they want. 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.679 And that idea that trying is winning is at the 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:25.320 center of today's episode. Sarah Haynes is warm and sharp 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.120 and so funny. She can disarm a room in seconds. 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:31.320 You may know her as one of the co hosts 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.680 of the View, but today we get to go behind 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.840 the camera, ready polish, and into the story that you 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:41.240 don't often hear, the story of someone who's tried again 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:47.079 and again, often without certainty, often without applause, and always 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:48.640 with a whole lot of heart. 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.480 Sarah opens up about. 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.000 What it took to become the woman that we see 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:56.160 on screen, from her childhood dreams of SNL to one 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.120 of her lowest moments where she narrowly walked away from 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:01.920 TV altogether. It was pretty shocked to hear about it. 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.680 It's something she doesn't talk about that often, and to 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.920 hear her honest reflections on that time as well as 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.559 some of the invisibility that she felt when she became 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:14.480 a mom, it was pretty cool to hear someone speak 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.319 that candidly. I also love when she talks about her 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.840 big ambition, and woven through all of it is this 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.400 her philosophy on trying. 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.040 I don't want to sit here and tell my daughter 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:28.640 I once thought I would do something. 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:30.560 The fear was never having tried. 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.040 You know, I'm a Chicago girl, So I love hearing 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.760 her talk about her Midwestern upbringing and how she got 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.160 her first job as an NBC page. There's so much 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.520 determination that she had that I feel in her to 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.880 this day, and yet she talks about being told that 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.400 she didn't have it. Can you imagine that She talks 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.800 about watching others rise while she felt stuck, about the 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.160 pivots that almost broke her, and the quiet, radical decisions 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.560 that brought her back. And you know, I'm obsessed with 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.839 daytime television, Okay, especially the view. So we also peeled 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:05.559 back the curtain on what it really means to sit 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.400 at that iconic table and what happens when your inner 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:10.000 critics shows up uninvited. 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.360 There are days I still walk away from that table. 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.800 The inner voice says, that was dumb. You didn't offer anything. 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.160 We chatted about dating, what it means to find love 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.040 later on in your life, on your own timeline. Sarah 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.600 met her now husband at thirty four, she got married 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.280 at thirty seven, and had kids in her late thirties, 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.439 And as somebody navigating that chapter myself, it felt both 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:34.880 comforting and expansive to hear her say this. 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.320 I never lost sight of what I wanted and never 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.040 would I have categorized myself as someone who's a professional 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:42.439 woman choosing her job. 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.840 She also got pretty real about how becoming a mom 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.800 didn't just change her, it changed how people saw her. 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.200 From the moment you say you're pregnant, you don't realize 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:53.280 how quickly you fade. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.600 And underneath Sarah's story is this question of trying that 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.360 echoes again and again, not just does a motivational phrase, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.240 but as a way of living, because I don't think 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:05.640 trying is just about effort. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:07.640 It's about identity. 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.760 It's about who you become when you risk failure, when 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.200 you listen to that inner voice over all the noise, 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.280 and when you keep showing up, especially when no one 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:17.040 is clapping. 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:20.520 Sarah's story is full. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.560 Of answers, like she gives really good advice, but I 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.120 think even more importantly, it's full of proof that trying 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:32.880 is winning. Trying is the point. So the question I 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:34.960 think we're really circling today is what does it mean 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:40.160 to try? It's time to question everything with Sarah Haines. 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:49.600 It was hard for me to figure out where to start, 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:51.319 but I always try and think of like a theme 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.640 for the episode, And as I got deeper into your story, 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.960 I realize for me looking in it was hitting a 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:03.520 wall and then running, either jamming a Sarah Haynes size 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.400 hole through the wall or finding a way to climb over, 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.680 Like every single time you were hit with something, you 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:14.040 find a way forward. I read that you attribute that 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.840 resilience to your parents. They never signed a form, came. 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:18.199 To a game. 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.160 Well, they loved coming to my sports, but like they 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.720 with four kids, I don't feel it they never took 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.080 the lead. There's this whole generation of parents where people 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.160 will call or my kids doing this, and they were 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:36.640 great parents in the nineties standards, you know, But looking back, 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.720 I'm like, they never don't forget to take that, don't 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:40.800 do you know it was? 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.200 You're going to be left out if you don't remember that. 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.280 Then you look back now that you're a parent, are 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.560 you ever like, why didn't my parents step in anymore? 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:50.040 No? I love it. 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.000 I love it because I just read a quote the 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.800 other day that said, it won't be what we teach 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:58.200 our kids to do, it will be what we empower 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:00.800 them to do for themselves that will lea the greatest mark. 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.200 That's not exactly how it was, but that's the sentiment, 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.280 and I thought, yes, yes, that's the point. You can't 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.560 always be there for them. I want them to be resilient. 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.440 I want them to handle everything coming at them and 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:15.280 know that I'll be there as long as I can 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:16.360 for whatever they need. 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.120 But I need them to be okay. And that's what 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:19.760 I want for them. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.960 You said it so beautifully. My mother says starve them out. 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.480 She always says, I need to starve you out, like 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.080 I trapped my whole life. I tried to not give 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.360 you things so that you could give yourself things. 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.720 And it's actually harder than I thought. 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.040 Coming my oldest sister had kids young, and she was 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.920 my oldest sister, so I grew up judging way out 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.000 of like I was way out of my lane, judging 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:45.920 my sister at times with my nephew and niece, who 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.440 are great, but I was constantly like, why would. 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:50.800 You do this? Why would you do that? 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.880 And I realized, and my beliefs in what the vision 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.600 is have actually remained pretty sturdy. The execution is much 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:02.200 harder than I thought. So it is much easier at 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.600 times out of pure exhaustion or just the glee of 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.880 seeing your kids joyful in a moment. That means that 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:13.280 starving out means you have to really comprehend delayed gratification 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.520 and love them more than a moment, and that's I 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.960 do my best and Max is on the same page. 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.120 But it's hard. It's really hard. 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.080 Because you want to make their lives easier. 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:25.400 I just want to watch them laugh. 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:26.960 I want to watch them laugh and I want to 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.640 know that in that moment, with how hard parenting is, 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.280 those little moments, you can really solve those things. Yeah, 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:35.680 but if I do, what will prepare them for the 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:37.280 next challenge in the bigger hurdle. 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.120 So I'm kind of starving them out. I like your mom. 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.560 I hate that. I will get so mad I tell 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.800 you for starving her out. That's why she's sitting here 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:46.320 right now. 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.840 Okay, So high achiever Sarah. You went to Smith College 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.280 and you studied government. Why government? 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.840 So my mom said, pick a major based on what 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:00.760 you want to study. 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:02.200 It's a liberal arts education. 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:04.320 You're going to spend the majority of your time in 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.199 those classes and reading that topic. 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:07.480 What interests you. 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.000 I had always loved social studies in history, and so 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:15.119 to see all the classes from comparative government to political theory, 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.920 I mean, oh my god, philosophers, I was like, ooh, 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.720 this is my homework. So that ended up being kind 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:23.879 of the topic. When I looked through the catalog that 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:25.600 I was like, this is kind of an easy decision. 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:30.000 It's wild to me that none of the sort of 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.840 points in your life could have added up until they 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:38.440 were in hindsight, like now being on the view that 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.239 that degree in government is so valuable and useful and 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.840 probably taught you how to think and how to perceive issues. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.679 But like at the time, you hadn't even thought of broadcasts. 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:52.119 No, no, no, In fact, broadcast, my sister had wanted 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.399 to be in broadcast, so she was a communications major, 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.959 had all the internships, and then a really sad story 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:02.159 of a missing TV anchor who she never was found, 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.520 Like that day my sister pivoted to behind the scenes production, 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.639 but she actually was on the local station, you know, 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:13.159 her college station and stuff, So broadcast I thought, definitely 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.399 not that, Like I'm not a newsperson like I was 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.600 all I was a little more nerdy in my pursuits, 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.560 like I wanted nerdier things that got me more excited. 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:24.560 But I did love to make people laugh. 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.359 So the personality of a third child in a big 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:32.840 family was probably more pivotal than my studies. 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.240 Well speaking, of laughing, you have a dirty little secret. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:38.080 You wanted to be on SNL. 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.639 I still want to be on SNL. I still am 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.920 putting this out. My dream was Saturday Night Live? 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.280 Have they ever spoofed you? They did? They did. That's 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:48.040 kind of amazing. 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.080 Okay, thank you, Hota Kappy and Kathy Lee Gifford. Because 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.080 there was a time and Zach Gallifanakis was on the 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:58.800 episode and I heard that in the because I knew 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.280 so many people in thirty Rock the building, so many 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.439 people said, you're lucky they made that choice for the 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.199 live because they had a crazier version of me. 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:07.280 Yeah, but I think. 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.000 They probably went for the laugh by not making us 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.119 all crazy, so I got to be not totally insane, 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.520 but like it was when I was reading side comments 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.359 and there's a point where it's Abby Elliott and she's like, 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.639 watching you too, Like I'm reading a fan comment, Watching 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.240 you too is like watching two chickens fight over something. 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:27.080 It was like the dumbest thing. And my nephew, who's 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:29.960 now twenty six, called me. He's like, did you know 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.399 they played you on Saturday Night Live? And it was 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.399 like he had not seen one thing I'd done before 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.320 and I haven't done that again since. So that was 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.479 my pinnacle moment and honestly for me too, I was like, 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.720 this sketch comedy was what I wanted. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:44.199 Because you wanted to be an actor. 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:45.520 I wanted to be. 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.360 In comedic acting, so I wanted to do not stand up. 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.080 Some people are like, oh, you wanted to be a comic. 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.280 I'm like, oh wah, that makes my stomach, like that 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.280 makes me nervous thinking about not that. 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.560 I wanted to play over the top characters and be ridiculous, 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.960 and I think in SNL sketches, So sometimes when i'm 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:06.080 there's a moment the most awkward thing goes through my 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.040 head and my husband's always like, are you doing it 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:08.359 right now? 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.719 I'm like, I'm doing it. I'm writing the sketch, Like 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.280 it's just stupid stuff. Are you doing the thing? I'm 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:13.840 doing the thing. 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.000 And that's how I experienced the world, so I always, 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:19.119 you know, I thought what a trip that would be. 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.560 And SNL was really the main show we all grew 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.280 up on where that was like, oh my gosh, that's 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:25.720 a job. 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:27.040 Those people are paid. 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.600 Yeah, I think you have to really love comedy and 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:31.840 improv to feel that way. Because I look at SNL 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.120 and I'm like, I'm running the other way. That looks 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:35.760 so scary. It's really brave. 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:39.080 It's brave, it's over the top, and it's I mean. 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.719 Now, I've also watched those behind the scenes of how 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:44.000 much writing and leading up to it what they do, 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.800 so I eat in a way you're seeing Iceberg product. Yeah, 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.879 but oh my god, like it's still everything. Comedians are 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:52.280 some of my favorite people I get a meet. 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:53.520 Yeah. 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.240 So you mentioned knowing so many people in thirty rocks. Yeah, 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:58.760 I want to rewind a little bit and share your 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:02.479 story to thirty because it's kind of unbelievable. You're in 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:07.040 New York, you're pursuing acting, you're going on auditions. Yeah, 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.080 and you see this guy on the train you run 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:12.840 the same route yep, and he has an NBC backpack. 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.200 Yeah, and you decide to go up to him. 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:17.280 Well, so at that time, I'd come to New York 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.800 to do all that, but I hadn't even I had 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.760 to find a job to pay rent because I had 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.240