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Speaker 1: Go to truth finder dot com, slash Nancy and enter

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Speaker 1: any name to get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. Imagine your

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Speaker 1: little girl goes missing, and you search, and you search,

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Speaker 1: and you cry, and you pray, and you search and

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Speaker 1: you cry and you pray, and the years pass and

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Speaker 1: you know nothing, and every day you wake up and

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Speaker 1: and wonder will this be the day? And maybe a

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Speaker 1: day passes that you don't think about it, and beat

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Speaker 1: yourself up because you didn't think about it the day before.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. That's the living

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Speaker 1: hell that multiple families are going through right now, and

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Speaker 1: they are waking up to the awful discovery that up

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Speaker 1: to seven little girls appear to be buried in a

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Speaker 1: serial killer's burial grounds on a farm where police have

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Speaker 1: now started digging for the remains of a twelve year

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Speaker 1: old girl missing since nine seventy nine. How did it

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Speaker 1: go undiscovered? How did this guy go undetected for so long?

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Speaker 1: As you hear my words, digging is taking place on

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Speaker 1: a Michigan farm. We do have, as you know, probably

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Speaker 1: cause to believe that this is a grave site, no

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Speaker 1: question about it, that Kimberly King and other young female

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Speaker 1: victims who were murdered are buried here. And we believe

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Speaker 1: we have a suspect. And you know who that suspect is.

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Speaker 1: He's already been convicted, he's in prison. We were hoping

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Speaker 1: that would get a little more cooperation from him. But

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Speaker 1: we're going to do our jobs as far as law enforcement. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This search could last up to two or three, four

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Speaker 1: or five days, whatever it takes, we're gonna do it.

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Speaker 1: We're very cautiously optimistic that we're going to unfortunately fine remains.

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Speaker 1: But the key issue here, as part of what we're

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Speaker 1: trying to do because we're trying to bring closure, trying

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Speaker 1: to bring closure to the families, the families of the victims.

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Speaker 1: That's the key here. Straight out to John Limley, Crime

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Speaker 1: Online investigative reporter joining me along with Chicago psychologist Dr

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Speaker 1: Tiffany Sanders and forensics expert Karen Smith and of course

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Speaker 1: Allen the Duke Duke joining me out of l A.

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Speaker 1: Jackie Howard here in the studio, John Limley, I'm overwhelmed

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Speaker 1: that authorities believe that there are at least seven little

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Speaker 1: girls buried on this Michigan farm and now vacant farm.

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Speaker 1: What do we know? Actually, hold on, John Limley, I

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Speaker 1: want you to listen to to what we have got

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Speaker 1: in our mits on. This is one of the little

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Speaker 1: girl's father talking about the day his little girls, Cindy

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Speaker 1: Sarziki goes missing proby about five six o'clock. It was

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Speaker 1: nearing time and for dinner and she wasn't round, And

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Speaker 1: what you do. I went to the police station and

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Speaker 1: they told me that, um, I had to wait twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours. It's a file report. She should have been

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Speaker 1: a home. She's not home. Now we're calling friends, trying

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Speaker 1: to find out where she's at. We went to like

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Speaker 1: the different parks and there was a chirable and not

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Speaker 1: far away, and so we went to different places looking

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Speaker 1: for what are you thinking she maybe got hurt. She's

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Speaker 1: in hospital, so I didn't know. I had no idea.

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Speaker 1: I mean, anything bad wasn't even in the picture. So

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Speaker 1: we're still boys. She gonna get it talking to when

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Speaker 1: she comes home, and and and my figure should be home.

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Speaker 1: That is a father. That is Cindy's father when Cindy

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Speaker 1: first goes missing from our friends at NBC Dateline. But

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Speaker 1: now take a listen to Cindy's mother as well. At

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Speaker 1: that point, we were still hoping that she had just

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Speaker 1: spent the night at somebody's house. And I remember my

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Speaker 1: mom coming into the room and saying, you know where Cindy?

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Speaker 1: She said, if you know anything, you better spill it.

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Speaker 1: Now you're thirteen year old self, are you wondering where

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Speaker 1: she is? I was concerned right right away. You didn't

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Speaker 1: hear about that East chart. You heard about it, and

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Speaker 1: you know other states, and so when you're thirteen, you

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Speaker 1: think you're untouchable. It was Panny. You knew that there's

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Speaker 1: something something wrong. I mean, it's not like Jaws where

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Speaker 1: you got the little music going, and you know there's something.

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Speaker 1: It's we're just making the amount of a mole hill.

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Speaker 1: It'll be over, We'll find her, everything will be all right.

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Speaker 1: Dr Tiffany Sanders, Chicago's psychologist. That's what people tell themselves

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Speaker 1: when they want to believe everything will be all right.

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Speaker 1: But Cindy had never gone missing before. She was a

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Speaker 1: great student, very well behaved. They knew something was wrong,

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Speaker 1: Dr Tiffany, And it breaks my heart. Police told him

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Speaker 1: they had to wait twenty four hours before they could

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Speaker 1: report her missing, because that's the critical time where you

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Speaker 1: can save someone a final's life. Wow, Nancy, my heart

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Speaker 1: breaks listening to those recordings. And and they of course

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Speaker 1: they knew. But you know, when you think about the

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Speaker 1: five stages of grief, the very first stages denial. So

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Speaker 1: they're denying what likely is the truth that something unfortunate

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Speaker 1: happened to their daughter and their sister. And when you

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Speaker 1: think about this man who uh sind be trusted, She

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Speaker 1: probably didn't even think anything was gonna be happening to her.

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Speaker 1: She just thought, probably thought it was an innocuous interaction,

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Speaker 1: and he took advantage of her, so her family likely

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Speaker 1: has gone through all those stages of Greece, from from

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Speaker 1: denial to depression, to anger to bargaining with God like

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Speaker 1: please let our child be okay, let our sister be okay,

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Speaker 1: and to that final stage of acceptance. And it's very unfortunate,

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Speaker 1: and I'm so happy that they're likely getting the court

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Speaker 1: closure they need. It's so hard for them to get

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Speaker 1: to that point because for so long she's missing, years

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Speaker 1: past and they don't know what happened to her. Back

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Speaker 1: to you, John, Lily, Let's take it from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: What focused police on this vacant Michigan farm tell me

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Speaker 1: about the disappearance of the girls. There's so many and

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Speaker 1: I predate they're going to be more. Well, we could

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Speaker 1: begin with the specifics of Cindy's case and then we'll

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Speaker 1: go back in time. Uh, Cindy of Sunday morning, not

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night sometime, tells her father

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Speaker 1: that she's going to Dairy Queen where she's going to

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Speaker 1: meet some friends and then they're going to walk to church.

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Speaker 1: Now this was a lie. She was actually intending to

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Speaker 1: meet her boyfriend, Scott Reem, at least that's what she thinks.

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Speaker 1: She's doing. When Cindy arrives at the dairy, Queen Scott's

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Speaker 1: not there, but his dad, Arthur is. He tells her

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Speaker 1: that he's met her there so that they can plan

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Speaker 1: a surprise birthday party for Scott. After that, no, Cindy,

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Speaker 1: She's not seen anywhere. It's not law though, before police

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Speaker 1: do hone in on Arthur h Shortly after Cindy's appearance,

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Speaker 1: Arthur has thrown in prison for sexually assaulting a fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old girl, and this really shines the spotlight on it.

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Speaker 1: The remains of a twelve year old girl missing for

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Speaker 1: years may be buried at a vacant Michigan farm police

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Speaker 1: now believe is a graveyard, a burial site for many

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Speaker 1: many other girls. Police now digging on a remote property

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Speaker 1: and it's in Warren, Warren, Michigan. The Warren Police Commissioner,

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Speaker 1: Bill Dwyer says that he believes they are many others

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Speaker 1: buried there. They say they've got probably cause to believe

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Speaker 1: Kimberly is buried there and that there are other girls.

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Speaker 1: He did not give the names of the other missing

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Speaker 1: girls now. Kimberly was reported missing from the same area

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Speaker 1: around nineteen eighties. She was staying with her grandparents that night. Nothing.

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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about this guy? Arthur ream

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Speaker 1: John Limley, Well, Arthur has admitting has admitted since that

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Speaker 1: first nineteen eight six arrest for sexually assaulting a fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old girl to having a fetish four teenage girls. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Detectives therefore were very suspicious of Art when it came

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Speaker 1: to some other cases that had big question marks by them. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know a lot of these cases have been treated

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Speaker 1: as runaways because there was there were never bodies found. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Cindy's case was finally reopened. When investigators interviewed Arthur Reem,

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Speaker 1: they said his behavior was rather telling because when they

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Speaker 1: first confronted him, he didn't ask why they wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to him. He just said, I knew this day

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Speaker 1: would come. It's very odd, he said, I knew this

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Speaker 1: day would come. You know, I don't understand something, John Linley,

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Speaker 1: why there was not a full odd search for these

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Speaker 1: girls when they go missing. And it's very upsetting that

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Speaker 1: they were just discounted as runaways. That's one thing investigators

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Speaker 1: have not been able to understand because they're picking up

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Speaker 1: the pieces left behind by investigators from decades ago and

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Speaker 1: it's not sure. They're not sure if there just wasn't

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Speaker 1: enough suspicion to think that there really had been foul play,

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Speaker 1: or who knows, maybe personnel time was just under crunch

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Speaker 1: at that at that moment and they didn't have the

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Speaker 1: time to cover the cases. Here's another bizarre fact. Now

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Speaker 1: John Lily has detailed how apparently Reem lured the one

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Speaker 1: girl claiming that they were going to set up up

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Speaker 1: her little boyfriends. I mean, she's like her little boyfriend's

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Speaker 1: birthday party at a dairy queen. But what he really

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Speaker 1: does is lure her out under the pretense of a

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Speaker 1: surprise birthday party for her little boyfriend his son. So

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Speaker 1: she trusted him. He rapes and kills her. So that's

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Speaker 1: how that went down, and that is why she lied

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Speaker 1: to her parents. At first, it sounds bad that she

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Speaker 1: says she was going to this place. What she was

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Speaker 1: really going to do was set up a little surprise

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Speaker 1: birthday party at the local dairy queen. I remember growing up,

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Speaker 1: that was the closest thing to us, a dairy queen.

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Speaker 1: We had to drive twenty five minutes to get to that.

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Speaker 1: That was the big thing to go to dairy queen so,

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Speaker 1: as John Limley is telling us, the alleged purp, Reams

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Speaker 1: did not ask why cops were there. It just said

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Speaker 1: I knew this day would come. Now, here's the thing

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Speaker 1: about the son, Scott rem Son and Cindy's them little

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Speaker 1: boyfriend was killed in the n drunk driving incident. He

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Speaker 1: wasn't drinking. A drunk driver killed him. Now, in the

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Speaker 1: hopes of getting who they believed to be a serial

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Speaker 1: killer realm to reveal where Cindy's body is, the cops

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Speaker 1: take Ream to his son's grave and they let him

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Speaker 1: lay flowers there and they say, you've got your son's

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Speaker 1: body to burry, why can't Sindy's family the Arzikis have

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Speaker 1: that same peace. And according to them, Rain just shakes

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Speaker 1: his head and goes, that's a low blow. But then

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Speaker 1: he makes an offer to show investigators where Cindy's body

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Speaker 1: is where it was buried. He draws a map of

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Speaker 1: some land in Macomb Township that some of his friends owned,

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Speaker 1: and the map was way too difficult to understand, so

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Speaker 1: he was actually taken to where he's being held. He's

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Speaker 1: taken from there to where the map shows the body

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Speaker 1: will be. Seven hours passed the investigators found nothing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: even landowners nearby were helping to dig. Okay, they were

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Speaker 1: all digging, and then they see a purse, a purse

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Speaker 1: in the dirt, and a human leg next to shoes,

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Speaker 1: and they all belong to little Cindy. Dr Tiffany Sanders,

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Speaker 1: Chicago Psychologists. I cannot even imagine that moment you're out

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Speaker 1: there digging and you see a purse and shoes and

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Speaker 1: a human leg. Wow. Yeah, I would be totally frightened.

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Speaker 1: I don't even like scary movies though. Just just the

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Speaker 1: thought of seeing someone's legs, someone's helpless body poking out

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Speaker 1: of the ground. Those images can be seared in our

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Speaker 1: minds forever. They're so emotionally charged, and it can cause

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Speaker 1: whoever stumbled upon that person too to experience their own

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Speaker 1: sort of traumatic response. So we gotta think about those

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Speaker 1: who are who are digging and putting themselves out there

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Speaker 1: to help rescue this little girl or find her body.

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Speaker 1: They're likely dealing with some emotional backlash on that incident. Well,

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Speaker 1: that set the whole thing off, all right, And from

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Speaker 1: that location, we now believe that there are multiple little

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Speaker 1: girls bodies. We are on the trail of a serial

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Speaker 1: killer according to many. And he's got a lot to

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Speaker 1: be worried about right now because after the in ovation

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Speaker 1: and detective or in the Golden State killer case where

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Speaker 1: DNA from a long ago murder and rape case was

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Speaker 1: used and put into a site like ancestry dot com

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Speaker 1: through familial DNA, the Golden State killer was caught. Now,

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Speaker 1: if this guy is the right guy, d n A

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Speaker 1: on these little girls bodies, if it still exists, if

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Speaker 1: they're not totally skeletonized, which they may be, can be

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Speaker 1: matched up on genealogical websites through familial DNA and possibly

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Speaker 1: tie him to other murders. Now that he is in custody,

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Speaker 1: a search warrant can be conducted on him. It's called

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Speaker 1: a bugle swab. You put something like a really long

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Speaker 1: Q tip into somebody's mouth and get their saliva. Now

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Speaker 1: that he's a suspect, even if there's not DNA left

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Speaker 1: on the girl's bodies, that saliva can be put in

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Speaker 1: the genealogical website to see all of the websites to

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Speaker 1: see if he is connected to any other crimes. See

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Speaker 1: his DNA can be put in the DNA database. It

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Speaker 1: can be used in so many different ways to possibly

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Speaker 1: link him to other murders of little girls. But right now, hey,

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Speaker 1: why are we talking about it? We've got it from

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Speaker 1: the horse's mouth. W D I V had a hidden

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Speaker 1: camera on Ream in a prison interview with a detective. Listen,

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Speaker 1: even talk to you Art Reem, convicted murderer, has no

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Speaker 1: idea he's on rescue for hidden camera. I've never knew

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Speaker 1: up on myself. I'm just saying that, you know, my

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Speaker 1: lad Ream killed thirteen year old Cindies are Ziki kidnapping

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Speaker 1: her from this East Point dairy queen next day? You know,

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Speaker 1: I know what I did was wrong. Reem will now

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Speaker 1: die in prison. But this murderer's hiding a secret, holding

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Speaker 1: Cindy's family hostage. I can't make up for the wrong

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Speaker 1: of darn. Re knows just where Cindy is buried, and

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Speaker 1: he knows family and police want the answer. Ream contacts

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Speaker 1: officers saying he has information to share. The decision on

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Speaker 1: how to unlock the secret falls on the shoulders of

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Speaker 1: these two men, Inspector John Calabaries and Detective Derek mac McLaughlin.

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Speaker 1: So what would you do you want that secret? You

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Speaker 1: know the answer would bring one family some comfort, a

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Speaker 1: little bit of relief from excruciating pain. Do you beg

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Speaker 1: plead with art Ream? Do you threaten him to get

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Speaker 1: the information? Inspector Calabaries does just the opposite. He tells

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Speaker 1: Mac to act like he just doesn't care, like it's

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Speaker 1: not important. With Rescue for Hidden Cameras, Rolling Mac puts

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Speaker 1: on his best poker face. He strolls into the Macomb

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Speaker 1: Correctional facility, ready to bloff. Alright, alright. When m rambles on,

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Speaker 1: Mac puts all the chips on the table. He tells

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Speaker 1: the murderer it's not important to know where Cindy is buried.

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Speaker 1: Everyone already has closure. Ream gets angry, wut here right now?

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Speaker 1: So you really don't care? What's happened? I don't have closures?

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Speaker 1: The help can make a closer, but Calibrees is confident.

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Speaker 1: Rem erupts because the killer, since is the only card

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Speaker 1: he has to bargain with, is no longer important. Calabarrees

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Speaker 1: tells Mac not to worry. Realm craves attention and he

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Speaker 1: will be back. Just days later. Mac gets word Rem

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Speaker 1: is ready to talk. Are you doing alright? With Rescue

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Speaker 1: for Hidden Cameras, Rolling Realm starts to explain his map,

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Speaker 1: describing how he buried the thirteen year old. Can't do

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Speaker 1: going avenue? Now, did you go pretty deep? For? Reem

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Speaker 1: gets specific about Cindy's clothing and accessories that she were

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Speaker 1: the first year, just put her in the whole little

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Speaker 1: put her cool over? Does your physician of buying a

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Speaker 1: certain way in the gold? With Reem talking, it seems

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Speaker 1: as if the police gamble is paying off is cross

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Speaker 1: to anyway? But remember this is no game. What really

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Speaker 1: matters is not that Realm is talking, but if he's

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Speaker 1: telling the truth and if police can find Cindy. And

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Speaker 1: he said that the bridge was like right in here.

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Speaker 1: Just days after this hidden camera confession calabaries, Mac and

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Speaker 1: other police officers uncover reems twenty two year old secret

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Speaker 1: the bones of little Cindy. Happy for the family that

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Speaker 1: we can hopefully put give the family a lot of closure.

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Speaker 1: Varied exactly how him described face up with her purse

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Speaker 1: on her chest and a jacket nearby. It's a bittersweet

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Speaker 1: moment for Cindy's family, whose search has come to an end.

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Speaker 1: They had no idea if Cindy was dead or alive

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Speaker 1: for more than two decades. We want to make sure

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Speaker 1: we place her um at rest. She is at rest

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Speaker 1: and not where somebody laft Karen Smith. He makes me

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Speaker 1: sick because he's talking about his life is over, how

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Speaker 1: he's suffering because he's being caught, how he's suffered because

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Speaker 1: of what he did, the guilt of her killing Cindy.

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Speaker 1: But there's so many others he kept doing it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: why is he talking about his pain and suffering with

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Speaker 1: so typical nancy, the narcissism, And it's all me, me, me,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is just so typical of of these predators,

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Speaker 1: of these you know, people who prey on the helpless

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Speaker 1: children in our society. It's all about me and what

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Speaker 1: I'm going through. Well, talk about the families and what

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Speaker 1: those little girls went through. And you know, my prayers

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Speaker 1: right now are that investigators are able to find the

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Speaker 1: remains of these little girls that have been missing for

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Speaker 1: decades and give these families some closure. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if they'll be able to break this Arthur Reeen guy

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Speaker 1: and have him go back to the scene and maybe

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Speaker 1: point out where he's put these other bodies, but that

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Speaker 1: sure would be a help at this point, because investigators

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Speaker 1: have their work cut out for them. This guy a

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Speaker 1: master manipulator, tricking this little girl into telling her he

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Speaker 1: was planning surprise birthday party for his son. Because the

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Speaker 1: little girl had been dating his son at the time

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Speaker 1: of her disappearance, well as much as thirteen or fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old little kids can date. I guess that means

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Speaker 1: holding hand at the in the movie theater when their

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Speaker 1: parents drop him off. So he used his own son

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Speaker 1: as bait. Okay uh. From that, police have continued agging

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Speaker 1: to Dr Tiffany Sanders, Chicago psychologist, A, I'm very interested

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Speaker 1: in his narcissism, that it's all about him and how

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Speaker 1: he's suffering now. But also police say he is a

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Speaker 1: control freak. What does that mean to you, Well, it

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Speaker 1: seems like he uses manipulation to get what he wants,

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Speaker 1: so he, you know, controls the circumstances to his benefit,

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Speaker 1: exploiting young people, including his own son. He probably you know,

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Speaker 1: got information from his young son to to create this

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Speaker 1: situation for the young girl to come visit and go

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Speaker 1: to the ice cream shop and not thinking she was

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Speaker 1: going to that was gonna be your last day on

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Speaker 1: this space with his earth. So he's controlling, he's narcissistic.

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Speaker 1: He thinks about himself. He has this grandiose idea that

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Speaker 1: you know, he's entitled to these young girls. What makes

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Speaker 1: you think you're entitled. You're a grown man, go after

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Speaker 1: a woman and date her like everybody else tends to

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Speaker 1: date and Mary. So this man is obvious be sick.

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Speaker 1: He needs well he really needed help. But he's in

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Speaker 1: the best place he could beat, which is behind bars. Man,

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Speaker 1: he can really lie. Dr Tiffany because he came up

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Speaker 1: with some yarn about the little girl had fallen off

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Speaker 1: an elevator and that they buried her. That's such a

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Speaker 1: lot because none of her bounds reveal, reveal, any breakage, fracture, nothing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine after all these years the

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Speaker 1: family finally having closure and not in a good way.

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Speaker 1: To John Linley, Crime Online investigative reporter, how are the

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Speaker 1: girls similar? The seven that they think are buried, and

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Speaker 1: of course opperdate there will be more. Who are they?

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Speaker 1: How are they similar? Well? One that investigators are really

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Speaker 1: focused and they're hoping that they're going to be able

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Speaker 1: to find her is uh Kimberly King, this girl that's

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Speaker 1: been missing since September of nine and she was staying

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Speaker 1: with her grandparents that night she wanted to go to

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Speaker 1: a movie with her older sister. She was trying to

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Speaker 1: pack in a lot that night. Uh. She also uh

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Speaker 1: snuck out of a sleepover that same night through a

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Speaker 1: bedroom window and she went to hang out in this

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Speaker 1: is again Warren, Michigan close to Lake St. Clair. She

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Speaker 1: went to Warren's cruising spot now around eleven that night,

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Speaker 1: she calls one of her sisters, Connie, from a pay

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Speaker 1: phone that's not far at all from her grandparents house. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Connie tells her to go back to Annie's, that it's

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Speaker 1: too late to be out for a twelve year old

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Speaker 1: to be running around town. It's not really known what

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Speaker 1: happens next, but we do know that late this late

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Speaker 1: night pay phone call to her sister would be the

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Speaker 1: last time that any of Kimberly's family or friends would

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Speaker 1: ever talk with her. And this is just one of

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Speaker 1: the cases that may be tied to ease woods in

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Speaker 1: this farmland. Can you imagine finding out your little girl

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Speaker 1: is buried out there after years of wondering if she

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Speaker 1: just ran away and is living somewhere away from you,

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Speaker 1: that would be just awful. And to find out she

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Speaker 1: was actually dead and there's no doubt that he raped

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Speaker 1: them in my mind, because there are other victims that

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Speaker 1: we know of this guy. Arthur Remon already served hard

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Speaker 1: time for a child sex offense in Shelby Township, and

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Speaker 1: and that was in seventy five, and then again in

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Speaker 1: for a case out of Gladwin County, both of them

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Speaker 1: child sex offenses. Why was he even out is my question?

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Speaker 1: For other women have come forward now claiming they were

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Speaker 1: assaulted by him when they were younger and and nothing happened.

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Speaker 1: I just I don't understand that there's this huge line

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Speaker 1: of victims and now it's resulting because he kept getting out,

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00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: getting out, getting out on child sex offenses. We now

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Speaker 1: know he has committed murder on these children. A very

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Speaker 1: disturbing past for Arthur him. And I'm stunned, Karen Smith,

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Speaker 1: and he had all these offenses and he wasn't kept

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Speaker 1: behind bars, Karen. Isn't that typical, Nancy? You know, these

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Speaker 1: guys rely on a broken system to go out and

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Speaker 1: keep reoffending and keep reoffending, and that's what apparently happened

394
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Speaker 1: here with Arthur Reid. As soon as he got out,

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Speaker 1: he went right back to his old behavior as his

396
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Speaker 1: old emos trolling for these little girls. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you said that there's probably more bodies in the woods,

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Speaker 1: and I agree with you. We're not going to stop

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Speaker 1: at seven. There's gonna be more. Well, here's the other thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's no death penalty in Michigan. So this

401
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Speaker 1: guy can rape as many children as he wants to

402
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: and murder as many children as he wanted to, and

403
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Speaker 1: he will get no more or than anybody else had

404
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: pulled a gun and shot somebody in a bar. Okay,

405
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: that's how this is going to go down. That is

406
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: how this is going to go down. And the whole

407
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: thing is just so disturbing to me. Up to seven girls,

408
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: six to seven girls, we believe, are buried at a

409
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Speaker 1: McCombe township burial site by a guy who had repeated

410
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: convictions for child sex attacks. Arthur Ream police now searching

411
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Speaker 1: the woods. It's a little bit north of Detroit for

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Speaker 1: bodies of these young girls. How are they doing it,

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith, you're the forensics expert. How are they going about?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you go out to a completely wooded area,

415
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: it's all overgrown with trees, with fallen trees, with underbrush.

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Speaker 1: How do you do it well. To say that this

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Speaker 1: is going to be a a complex undertaking would be

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00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: an understate it. Nancy. You know, at this point we

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Speaker 1: have advanced technology. We have ground penetrating radar, we have

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Speaker 1: cadaver dogs. Aerial photography can show differences in the land

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00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: and how it's laid out, and maybe differences in the

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00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: soil areas that they haven't looked at before. And the

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00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 1: problem is, if they uncover one body, they have to

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00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: individualize that body because now we're dealing with multiple victims.

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Speaker 1: So it's not just a matter of uncovering skeletal remains.

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Speaker 1: It's a matter of doing age, sex, ancestry, stature, and

427
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: then doing the individual characteristics to identify that child as

428
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: the victim they were looking for. They may uncover a

429
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: body they weren't expecting. It's going to make it so

430
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: much more complex and so much more difficult, you know,

431
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: as freaky Dotor Tiffany Sanders, Chicago psychologist. On another note,

432
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: regarding this perv Arthur Rain, who was ps doing another

433
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: jail term on uh a child sex attack. I don't

434
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: know how many of those he's got, but Dr Tiffany,

435
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: this guy once had a family, Okay, somewhere out there

436
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: there is a wife who knows everything about this guy,

437
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: if we can find her. And he passed for normal

438
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: because he looked like he was a typical or looked

439
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: like he had a typical all American family, wife, children,

440
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: probably involved in the community. But you know, when you

441
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: have an intimate partner, a husband or a spouse or

442
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: a wife, you you tend to know them very well.

443
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask her if I had the

444
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: chance to say, where there are some suspicious things about

445
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: his behavior when he would come home. Um, and did

446
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: he have any sort of marks on him? Did he, uh,

447
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: you know, have any sort of vices or fantasies that

448
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: you thought were kind of weird and unusual, Because if

449
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: your partner knows you well, you can pick up on

450
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: those things. But you know, sometimes, you know, some people

451
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: turn a blind eye and and and in this case,

452
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: it could have we happened. But that is very unusual

453
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: to have a wonderful, beautiful family. But you're going out

454
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,719
Speaker 1: in your targeting these unsuspecting twelve thirteen fourteen year old

455
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: girls disgusting. For the longest time, there was hope Cindy

456
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: Zarzeki was alive. There were alleged signings of her in Florida,

457
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: across the Southwest and the south. Finally, eight years after

458
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: she goes mission, she was pronounced dead, but her family

459
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: never had a body to bury. That ended when she

460
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: was finally found on this Macomb County tract of land.

461
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: Now there are other families waiting in line, wondering if

462
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: their child will be the next be uncovered and identified

463
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: a victim of Arthur Reem police burning the midnight oil

464
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: looking for more bodies of little girls. Listen, we do

465
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: have it, you know, probably cause to believe that this

466
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: is a grave site, no question about it. That Kimberly

467
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: King and other young female victims who were murdered are

468
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: buried here. And we believe we have a suspect. And

469
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: you know who that suspect is. He's already been convicted,

470
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: he's in prison. We were hoping that would get a

471
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: little more cooperation from him. But we're going to do

472
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: our jobs as far as law enforcement. Uh. This search

473
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: could last up to two or three, four or five days.

474
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: Whatever it takes, we're gonna do it. We're very cautiously

475
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: optimistic that we're going to Unfortunately, fine remains, but the

476
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: key issue here as part as what we're trying to do,

477
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: because we're trying to bring closure, trying to bring closure

478
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: to the families, the families of the victims. That's the

479
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: key here. The search goes on. There's a brand new

480
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: website causing a lot of trouble for people with something

481
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about

482
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: somebody may be suspected your partners cheating, may be worried

483
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: about your online rep utation. If you answer yes to

484
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: any of those questions, you may need truth Finder. Public

485
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: records are only recently easily available online. Before websites like

486
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: truth Finder, you most likely have to visit a courthouse

487
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: to get that information. Now it's as simple as entering

488
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: a name. Truth Finder sifts through millions of public records

489
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: from all over the country, assembling them into one easy

490
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: to read report. Search the names of somebody you know,

491
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: you could find criminal and arrest records, bankruptcies, contact information,

492
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: social dating profiles, financial assets, and a lot more. Why

493
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: fork out thousands to a private investigator when you can

494
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: do the job yourself. Everybody you know has something to hide.

495
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: Now you can root out the most dangerous people before

496
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: you become the next victim. It's not just used to

497
00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: us bad people. Truth Finder helps Americans reunite with friends, family,

498
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: even people who served with them in the military. It's

499
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: never been so easy to find the truth. Go to

500
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: truth finder dot com slash Nancy and enter any name

501
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: to get started. My message to those responsible simply this,

502
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: we will find you. We will knock on every door,

503
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: talk to every witness, watch every piece of video, and

504
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: analyze every piece of evidence. Believe me, you will not

505
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: get away with this. And now to Chicago and a

506
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: t F agent gunned down, a nationwide man hunt for

507
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: the cup shooter. Right now we are learning in the

508
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: last hours a takedown. Joining me right now, John Limley,

509
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: Crime Online investigative reporter. What do we know? First of all,

510
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: let's start with this shooting. For those of you that

511
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: don't know about the a t F agent gunned down

512
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: in the line of duty, start at the beginning, John Limley, Nancy.

513
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: In the pre dawn hours of Friday, the reputed gang

514
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: member Ernesto Gordinez, he slipped out of the back of

515
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: the yards home. This is the area in which he

516
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: lives in Chicago. He cut through a gangway about a

517
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: block away from where undercover federal agents were working a

518
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: gang investigation. Now thankfully, back it up, Back it up

519
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: with me, John Limley, Crime Online investigative reporter. It's the

520
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: Almighty Saints, that's the gang we're talking about, and they

521
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: are brutal, brutal. They will gun you down just as

522
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: soon as look at you, John Limley. These gangs have

523
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: been plaguing Chicago for so many years, and in this

524
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: part of Chicago it's it's their domain. So what I

525
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 1: understand is surveillance cameras that were set up for another matter,

526
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: another at er UH captured the shooter entering an alley

527
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: just literally moments, not even minutes, moments before seven shots

528
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: rang out. I mean, you know Karen Smith with me,

529
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 1: forensic sex put along with Dr Tiffany Sanders, well known

530
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: Chicago psychologist. Karen. When you're in law enforcement, all those

531
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: years that I prosecuted trumping through housing projects, very often

532
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: all by myself, with nothing in my hand but a

533
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: subpoena to deliver to somebody, or beat up old polaroid

534
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: County issue camera to take crime scene photos. I guess

535
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: you go into it every day knowing you could take

536
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: a bullet, knowing you could be shot at. I guess

537
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: I knew it. In fact, I remember one episode Karen

538
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: where my investigator and I broad daylight knocking on a

539
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: door trying to find a witness. It was really bright outside,

540
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: and the people had a screen door, an old dark

541
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: screen door, fully screened door, which is very common in

542
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: the South, over their regular door, and you couldn't see

543
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: through it, and it was in the shade, and I

544
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: was in the bright sunlight, and all of a sudden

545
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: I see a barrel coming out of the door right

546
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: at our faces, and my investigator and I he grabbed me.

547
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: We dove off the porch, dove into the bushes. Okay,

548
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: And I guess I recount it now anecdotally, but I

549
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: really didn't think about it when I would get ready

550
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: to go out on the street or a workye case,

551
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: I didn't really think about the fact that I would

552
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: can meet with danger. And now this a t F agent,

553
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: like so many other cops, goes to work that evening

554
00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 1: and he gets shot by a gang member. What about it? Care?

555
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: I recall moments like that as well, Nancy. And you

556
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: know when you put on the uniform, especially a t F,

557
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: I mean alcohol, tobacco, farms. Just the title of their

558
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: job elicits danger and even more so than a beat cop.

559
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: And that's what I was, was just a beat cop.

560
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: And and I remember going into certain neighborhoods and just

561
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: having my guard up, knowing full well that it was

562
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: a dangerous area. So these guys were not complacent. They weren't,

563
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: you know, not getting each other's backs. It was just

564
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: a quick happenstance. They didn't see it coming. This gang

565
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: member decided it was in his interest too, off these

566
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: this a t S agent and shoot him in the face.

567
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: And that's part of all. Oh, just so way we're

568
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: even saying that shoot him in the face. Well, once

569
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: again I'm gotten ahead of myself. I'm putting the cart

570
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: before the horse, John Limley back to you. So the

571
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: surveillance cameras are set up and for another matter, and

572
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: they happened to cat this almighty Saint Game member and

573
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: what do they see? Well, And the sad thing was

574
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: is at the moment they were actually working on a

575
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: device that they were using, their their attention wasn't even

576
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: uh in the direction that Gornitez uh Ernesto Granitez was

577
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: coming from. Let me ask you this, John Lenly, isn't

578
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: it true that the agent and his whole team we're

579
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: looking down because they were changing batteries and a car

580
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: tracking device at that moment. They were all looking down,

581
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: And at that moment it was about three fifteen a m.

582
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: Which I believe is truly the witching hour. I don't

583
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: think it's twelve. I agree with the little girl in

584
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: bf G, Big Friendly Giant. The witching hour is three am.

585
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 1: I'm convinced of it. Had so many laugh if you

586
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: want people, go ahead, Karen forensics expert Dr Tiffany Shrank,

587
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: John Emily, go ahead, Alan Deack. I know you're laughing

588
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: into your hand out there in your posh penthouse pad

589
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: in l A. Jackie sit saying, yes, there's something about

590
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: the three am time. I had so many murders. I

591
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: know I'm supposed to be the just the facts man,

592
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: but I've heard all my life that three has some

593
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 1: sort of spooky significant. Okay, we're getting all voodoo. We've

594
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: got to stop. People will mock us, but we all

595
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: know it's true. Okay, So they're all looking down and

596
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: the guy opens up a heel of bullets. Go ahead,

597
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: and as the officers immediately started scrambling after the agent.

598
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: One agent has been hit in the face. Officers call

599
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: the officers call dispatch for back up. The suspect runs

600
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: back to his house which is just right there, uh

601
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: near the scene of the shooting, before he hops into

602
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: a vehicle and drives off. And they've got most of

603
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: it or some of it on surveillance video, but it's

604
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: very grainy and it's very dark. Just f y I.

605
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: Dr Tiffany Sanders joining us from Chicago. This is your backyard.

606
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: It's Chicago back of the Yards neighborhood. And the this gang,

607
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: the Almighty Saints, are about sixty year old. There are

608
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: sixty year old street gang. That's how long they have

609
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: been a para site on Chicago. So what does Chicago

610
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: have to say to this? Dr Tiffany has taken him

611
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: sixty years and they can't get rid of the Almighty Saints. Yeah, Nancy,

612
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: this is really, you know, such a sad situation. Uh.

613
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: A t F agent doing their job three am in

614
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: the morning, unsuspecting and this man takes an opportunity, a

615
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: sucker opportunity to shoot, uh pretty much on armed agent

616
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: at that moment, a defenseless agent rather and when you

617
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 1: think about our community being uh para I by these parasites,

618
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: is quite frustrating because you don't want to take your

619
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 1: children outside, you don't want to play on the streets

620
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: because you don't know when a random bullet from some

621
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: stupid gang member who's fighting someone and they cannot shoot

622
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: because they never hit their targets. They always seem to

623
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: hit some random child. It's just very disheartening to hear

624
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: and read these stories on a weekly basis and the

625
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: news and unfortunately Chicago has not done the best of

626
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: job in trying to get at these game members. And unfortunately,

627
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: also the residents don't turn each other in and they

628
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: know who's doing the bad things, and they're raising these

629
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: parasites and they don't want to do anything about it.

630
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: Listen to this. Despite six dollars in reward money and

631
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: I passion please from police and public officials for community assistance,

632
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: Law enforcement sources tell the I Team there were no

633
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 1: tips offered by neighborhood residents in the a t F shooting,

634
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: seen as an indication of the grip the Almighty Saying

635
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: gang has on residence. Well, I had a lot of

636
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: gang prosecutions in the Inner City Atlanta. But when the

637
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: Almighty Saints came on my radar was the late nineties

638
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 1: when a twelve year old Saint Almighty st member went

639
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: through quote initiation and gunned down two rival gang members

640
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:26,959
Speaker 1: that were about uh fourteen. That's when I first heard

641
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: the name Almighty sat. And at that time I was

642
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: in the middle of UM a case there was later

643
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: tried called Doom. It was the Doom gang and there

644
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: were a lot of murders and a lot of shootings.

645
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: I had a shooting an aggravated assault case that was

646
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 1: a Doom member and they would like torture the person first.

647
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: And I started working with a gang squad as it

648
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: was at the time, and I heard about the Almighty

649
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: Saints in Chicago. UM it's the new mob, is street mob,

650
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: the new mafia, and they run all of it's like

651
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: organized crime. They were in all the crime within their turf, drugs, prostitution, theft, larceny,

652
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: everything evil. And the people that live in that area

653
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 1: are subject to a bunch of thugs rule John Limley.

654
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: So they shoot the a t F agent they take off.

655
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: The surveillance is very gritty, it's at night, but it

656
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: turns out this guy Um Gadinez and his brother Rodrigo

657
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: are the leaders of the Almighty Saints and they can

658
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: both rot in h E double l as far as

659
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: I'm concerned, So takedown a cur tell me what happened.

660
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: This is an interesting point. While surveillance footage places Godin

661
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,959
Speaker 1: as near the spot where the shots were fired, the

662
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: criminal complaint is not alleged he was actually seen firing

663
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: the gun. Also, which has investigators scratching, is why in

664
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 1: the world Godin as open fire or whether he knew

665
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: he was even firing at agents, Because see, these guys

666
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: were in plain clothes while we're setting up for uh

667
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 1: their own task force in the neighborhood where he lived.

668
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: Long story short, and arrest has gone. Damn. What do

669
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 1: we know about these guys and and how exactly were

670
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: they caught? John Limley Well Records show that both brothers

671
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: have some extensive criminal histories. It was Ernesto Um and

672
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: his brother Rodrigo Uh. They were charged in twenty eleven

673
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: with the attempted murder for a shooting in that same neighborhood,

674
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: then picked up on a separate charge of aggravated unlawful

675
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 1: use of a weapon for an incident in March twelve

676
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: while he was on bond. He ended up resolving both

677
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: cases a couple of years ago by pleading guilty to

678
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: aggravated discharge of a firearm and aggravated unlawful use of

679
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: a weapon. So he has been on the radar screen

680
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 1: for investigators for quite some time. Listen to this Ernie

681
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: Godinez cuffed and in custody a pre arranged surrender for

682
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: the man prosecutors say shot an undercover federal agent last Friday.

683
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: Sources say Godinez turned himself in with his lawyer in

684
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 1: a parking lot behind the First District Police station yesterday.

685
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: Two different surveillance cameras captured Gordinez in the area, and

686
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: at least three cameras captured what happened during the shooting.

687
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: Gordnez is seen on video leaving his home heading down

688
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: an alley. They claimed. Godinez has seen leaving his home

689
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 1: shortly after three in the morning and walking to an

690
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: area where shell casings were later found. Video also alleged

691
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: he shows Gordinya's running back towards his nearby home right

692
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: after shots were fired. The complaints says a t F

693
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 1: agents were in the neighborhood to place a tracking device

694
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: on a suspects vehicle. I know this. In the past days,

695
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: eighty four people were shot in Chicago, eighty four and

696
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: that includes I think it was nine homicides. What in

697
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,919
Speaker 1: the hay is going on is because the weather gets warm?

698
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: I mean, Karen Smith, I know people scoff at that,

699
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: but there's a clear increase in violent crime when weather

700
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: gets warm. Why that has been a conundrum that police

701
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: have worked with forever. You've got the full moon, you know,

702
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: saying you've got the warm weather thing, but it is

703
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: a fact crime spikes when spring hits. And you know,

704
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: to have nine murders and how many shootings for that's insane.

705
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: They have got to get a grip on this somehow,

706
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 1: some way. What do we know about where they're being held?

707
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: Are they both behind bars? I mean, if you could

708
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: see this mug shot, this guy's got such a smirk

709
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: on his face, I just want to wipe it off.

710
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: It's Ernesto good Dinez charged with shooting an a t

711
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: F agent in this past week. The agent shot while

712
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 1: working with Chicago police in the back of the Yards area.

713
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 1: A reputed gang member, Ornesto Goodness snuck out of his

714
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: home in their early morning darkness, cuts through an alley

715
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: about a blot from where federal agents were working on

716
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: a gang investigation, and because of that, he's caught on

717
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: surveillance video. But here's the kicker, I don't know how

718
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: good that surveillance video is at night. I don't know

719
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: what they captured to the State is not going to

720
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: be able to rely on that. They're gonna have to

721
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: come up with the weapon. They're going to have to

722
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: come up with testimony, and it is not easy to

723
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: crack a gang member and make them talk. Nancy Grace

724
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: Crime Stories signing off. All we can do now is

725
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: pray for the a t F agent and his family.

726
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: Goodbye Clip