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Speaker 1: Hello, They're happy Wednesday, and welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: The Chuck Podcast. Today's is somewhat a thematic day most Wednesdays.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to be in the habit of doing a

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Speaker 1: little bit of updating of what I'm seeing on the

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Speaker 1: campaign trail, and frankly, my campaign notebook has been overflowing

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Speaker 1: with things. Look and I'm going to be honest. This

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Speaker 1: has been I always say when people use that phrase,

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Speaker 1: I use it as a crutch. I'm gonna be honest

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Speaker 1: as if I'm not being honest before. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: cure myself of using that crutch. But what I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to say is is that I'm letting you in on

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Speaker 1: sort of some personal feelings that I normally don't like

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Speaker 1: to share, and that is I just feel rotten about

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Speaker 1: the state of the country. I'm not sleeping very well

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Speaker 1: about it. And because i don't see a path out

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Speaker 1: of this right now, I'm long term optimistic, and I'm

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Speaker 1: still going to be alone term optimistic. We've gone through

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Speaker 1: a lot of bad things in this country and gotten

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Speaker 1: out better each time. Each time we have formed a

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Speaker 1: more perfect union, whether it was the scourge of slavery,

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Speaker 1: whether it has been then giving civil rights and Jim Crow,

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Speaker 1: whether it has been the internment of the Japanese, whether

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Speaker 1: it was prohibition. The point is is that we've gone down.

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Speaker 1: We've had a lot of the Red scare, which I'm

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Speaker 1: bringing that up for a reason because I think we

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Speaker 1: might be seeing a fervor, particularly on the right, that

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Speaker 1: wants to try to essentially stain an entire political party

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Speaker 1: with an ideological belief that I don't think the country shares,

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Speaker 1: but one side of the aisle shares. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: initial what folks around the president have been promising when

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Speaker 1: it comes to retribution, going after the left, sort of

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Speaker 1: being blind to the violent outbursts that have taken place

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Speaker 1: that people have, you know, violence and murders that have

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Speaker 1: been done in the name of a far right ideology.

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Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is we have got a

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Speaker 1: poisonous information ecosystem that can radicalize somebody on the left

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Speaker 1: or somebody on the right to do bad things. Our

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Speaker 1: system is rigged towards it. I spend my sub stack

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Speaker 1: this week talking about this, and I know I've brought

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Speaker 1: it up here before. In some ways, it's you know,

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Speaker 1: some of you may be listening and going, oh, there's

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Speaker 1: Chuck on his soapbox about big tech. But the fact

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Speaker 1: of the matter is, we know we have two problems. Right.

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Speaker 1: We all know this is a problem, which is social

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Speaker 1: media has completely screwed up our information ecosystem, and the

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Speaker 1: tech companies, for some reason are getting no blame and

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Speaker 1: not being held accountable for this their algorithms, and they're look,

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Speaker 1: it's the efficiency of technologies. And I say this with

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Speaker 1: sort of without sort of animus in this point. Right, technology,

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Speaker 1: every time you know, we advance, you know, it creates

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Speaker 1: an efficiency. And when it came to sharing information, we

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Speaker 1: created an efficiency that it turns out is actually bad

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Speaker 1: for public discourse and it's bad for democracies. And what

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Speaker 1: is that efficiency. It's the efficiency of getting information, of

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Speaker 1: boiling it down to the one thing that matters. It's

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Speaker 1: the efficiency of being able to eliminate people that you

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Speaker 1: don't want to hear from. It's the efficiency of only

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Speaker 1: being able to see like minded people. And so that

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Speaker 1: may make sense if you're a quilter and you just

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Speaker 1: want information about quilting, or if you're a baseball card

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Speaker 1: dealer and you just want information about trading baseball cards.

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Speaker 1: But it's when it's on politics and you're only getting

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Speaker 1: one side and these algorithms. You know, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to sit here. I will. I've been trying to sort

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Speaker 1: of right. I want to turn down the temperature too.

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Speaker 1: I want big tech to participate in this. But I

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Speaker 1: do believe the second an algorithm is created to curate

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Speaker 1: how I see information that has made these companies publishers.

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Speaker 1: And once you're a publisher, you should be held accountable

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Speaker 1: for how the information you're curating is being used and manipulated.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately it's going to take some leadership from Washington

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Speaker 1: to do this. And you know, I look at what's

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Speaker 1: happening in the state legislatures at the moment. Over the

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Speaker 1: last two years, particularly post COVID, state legislatures have been

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Speaker 1: passing have been very aggressive on two things. And it

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Speaker 1: hasn't matter whether it's a red state or a blue state.

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Speaker 1: They've all been passing essentially the same laws, which is

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Speaker 1: a tougher age verification to try to limit the exposure

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Speaker 1: kids are getting to pronoc graphy and it is And

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Speaker 1: guess what, the fact that the pornographers are complaining about

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Speaker 1: this shows you that the just forcing age verification, which

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Speaker 1: you have to do if you want to buy booze

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Speaker 1: you're underage, or cigarettes or anything other vice you want

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Speaker 1: to participate in. And you know, we've never the Internet's

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Speaker 1: always been very loosey goosey on identification and forcing a

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Speaker 1: tougher standard there. And we're suddenly seeing, oh, so you

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Speaker 1: can put in some guard rails here that can do

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Speaker 1: a better job of protecting young people from this extreme pornography.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing that has been passing in state

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Speaker 1: legislatures all over the country, whether it's in a red

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Speaker 1: state or a blue state, is getting rid of cell

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Speaker 1: phones and classrooms. Right. Private schools had been doing it earlier, Right,

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Speaker 1: the public schools are now following suit. Look there, and

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Speaker 1: I think we've discussed this before. I mean, I am

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Speaker 1: empathetic to divorce parents who need to have want need

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Speaker 1: to make sure they have access to their kid during

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Speaker 1: the school day. But there are ways to do this, right,

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Speaker 1: you put you know, you can look at your phone

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Speaker 1: in between classes. You can have it in your backpack,

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Speaker 1: in your locker, you can have it in a in

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Speaker 1: a pad, but you don't have it while you're learning.

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Speaker 1: You take one hundred percent attention to your teacher one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent attention to what you're to what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it's our friend Spencer Cox and Uteh likes

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Speaker 1: to say, you know, maybe touch grass every now and then,

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Speaker 1: which is a kid touching grass is pretty important? But

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Speaker 1: when you think about it, we're so worried about what

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Speaker 1: social media and the and the tech companies are doing

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Speaker 1: to our kids that we're trying to do something about it.

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Speaker 1: Guess what if it's toxic for our kids, it means

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Speaker 1: it's toxic for us too, isn't it. And so look,

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Speaker 1: I'm a free speech absolutist. I am. I do think

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Speaker 1: bad speech is fixed with good speech. But amplification is

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Speaker 1: not free speech. Right, dialing up and dialing down what

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Speaker 1: you see and what you hear, that's not free speech.

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Speaker 1: That's curative speech, right, that's a campaign's that's that's something

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Speaker 1: that that and it should be up to the user.

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Speaker 1: If I want to curate my feed a certain way,

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Speaker 1: it should be in my hands. I don't need the

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Speaker 1: tech companies suggesting what I should be looking at a

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Speaker 1: for you tab like our friends at X do, which

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Speaker 1: is just nothing, but you know, it thinks it knows

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Speaker 1: my interests. But it will always be the most incendiary

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Speaker 1: thing about a topic I care about, even when it

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Speaker 1: comes to Miami Hurricane football, Green Bay Packer football, or

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Speaker 1: Washington Nationals baseball, let alone the various political things. You know,

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Speaker 1: attacks on the media, sometimes personal attacks on me. They

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Speaker 1: make sure it shows up in the for you tab.

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Speaker 1: What does that accomplish? I didn't ask for this. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I've gone out of my way to mute the idiots,

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Speaker 1: and yet it's still you know, these things still show up.

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Speaker 1: So you know, we we we are in that sense,

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Speaker 1: we're powerless on this. And then you have the two

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Speaker 1: parties who have been very reticent to write. You know,

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Speaker 1: they talk a big game. Individual members talk a big

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Speaker 1: game about regulating big tech, but they don't end up

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Speaker 1: doing it. And part of the problem is I just

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Speaker 1: was talking to a former US senator and you know,

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Speaker 1: you'll you'll figure it out in a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: when you when you see the interview that pops up

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Speaker 1: in a and when I when I do it. But

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Speaker 1: I was talking to a US senator who said to me, ah,

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Speaker 1: he said in passing that you know they you know,

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Speaker 1: I think we have to do something about tech. And

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Speaker 1: he said within two Within an hour he had he

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Speaker 1: suddenly had Sheryl Sandberg and Jack Dorsey calling him to like,

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Speaker 1: are you sure? What are you talking about? What are

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Speaker 1: you concerned about? With what tech is doing? Tech, the

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Speaker 1: big tech companies have really just sat your raided Washington

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Speaker 1: with money left and right. They've hired up all sorts

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Speaker 1: of strategists and former staffers left and right. It is

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Speaker 1: frankly standard practice for a powerful industry. Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: no different than big oil in the eighties and things

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Speaker 1: like that. And so what you've seen is kid glove treatment. Right.

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Speaker 1: We haven't had anything on maybe repealing Section two thirty.

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Speaker 1: We haven't had anything remotely close to trying to have

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Speaker 1: a digital bill of rights that protects our data, right

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Speaker 1: rather than allows so many other entities to own and

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Speaker 1: buy and sell our data. And you know they've done

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Speaker 1: a good job with that. And so what you have

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Speaker 1: now is twenty years of elected officials who don't know

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Speaker 1: how to attain power without the tech tools, right, So

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Speaker 1: that makes them hesitant. I mean, look, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to be labor point. I want the president to rise

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Speaker 1: above his partisan instincts and meet this moment the way

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Speaker 1: it needs to be met the way George Bush met

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven, the way Barack Obama did Charleston, the

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Speaker 1: way Bill Clinton handled Oklahoma City. We haven't gotten that

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Speaker 1: from him yet. If anything, he views it, he's done.

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Speaker 1: What about ism? You know, when he was questioned on

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Speaker 1: Fox about extremists on the right, he essentially rationalized their extremism, saying, well,

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Speaker 1: they care about they're upset about crime, I think, is

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Speaker 1: what he said. And when you see these leading partisan

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Speaker 1: politicians saying that they're going to investigate the left, that's

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Speaker 1: red scare stuff, right. That's what happened in the fifties,

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Speaker 1: and it was an ugly It was an ugly period

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Speaker 1: in Washington where guilt by association was the coin of

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Speaker 1: the realm. And that seems to be what's happening here

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Speaker 1: is that you have a lot of folks here that

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Speaker 1: see an opportunity right for political exploitation. But here's the

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Speaker 1: other thing. If you attained power in this polarized era,

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Speaker 1: you don't want it to change, do you. You don't

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Speaker 1: want to go back to an era that might be

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Speaker 1: a bit more unifying, a bit more bipartisan. By partisanship

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Speaker 1: is not good for Donald Trump. Right by partisanship hasn't

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Speaker 1: been you know, partisanship has been you know, the Democrats

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Speaker 1: arguably have done better because of reactionary partisanship with Trump.

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Speaker 1: You know, their brand has been problematic now arguably going

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Speaker 1: back to the Hillary Clinton nomination, but their success has

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Speaker 1: been due to polarization. Trump's ability to get a second

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Speaker 1: term was due to polarization. And so you know, when

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Speaker 1: you're sort of stuck, you know, the only way you

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Speaker 1: know how to win is this way. Then the incentives

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Speaker 1: are all. You know, our incentive structures are broken. And

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Speaker 1: you've heard me use that phrase before. You've heard a

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Speaker 1: lot of people say this. Okay, so how do we

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Speaker 1: create better incentive structures? Well, the only way I think,

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Speaker 1: which then fits the theme where I have today, which

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Speaker 1: is the rise of the independence. The fastest growing political

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Speaker 1: party in America is no party right. People are registering

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Speaker 1: are you know if they were registered? A lot of

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Speaker 1: former Republicans registered is independent because they don't like Trump.

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Speaker 1: You now have a lot of former Democrats registering is

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Speaker 1: independent because they don't like what's happened to the Democratic

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Speaker 1: brand under Biden Harris, and you're starting to see that.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing gen Z is sort of on the on

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Speaker 1: the age front, you're seeing a lot more of registered independence.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I always love I always love to

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Speaker 1: go around. I mean, and we're up to I think

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Speaker 1: half the states where non party or no party or

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Speaker 1: registered independence outnumber at least one of the two major parties.

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Speaker 1: And I believe it's in ten states where independents actually

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Speaker 1: outnumber both major parties. So there's a huge constituency out

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Speaker 1: there who don't like what's happened to the two parties. Now, look,

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Speaker 1: I am I am done sitting here making the do

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Speaker 1: I think in a perfect world, I think we should

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Speaker 1: be a four party system. I think it would actually

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Speaker 1: provide some relief, would force coalition politics. But I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to go down that rabbit hole today because I do.

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Speaker 1: I want to stick to topic here. What the two parties

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Speaker 1: need is a time out, right, they both need to

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Speaker 1: lose at the same time, or they both need to

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Speaker 1: be punished, essentially in order to force an inward Look,

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Speaker 1: you know, I railed on Monday about the fact that

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Speaker 1: there is zero incentive to call out your own party.

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Speaker 1: If anything, if you call out your own party for

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Speaker 1: bad behavior, you're seen as a trader not as somebody

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Speaker 1: looking out for the best interests of the country or

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Speaker 1: the party. And if you're going to sort of get

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Speaker 1: them out of their partisan rabbit holes, they're going to

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Speaker 1: have to be set back at the same time or

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Speaker 1: be under threat. And we've had an example of two

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Speaker 1: independent presidential candidacies that didn't win, Teddy Roosevelt and Ross Purot,

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Speaker 1: but effectively forced both parties to reform themselves and forced,

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Speaker 1: you know, forced an issue. You know, I look at

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Speaker 1: a guy like Spencer Cox and he's decidedly on MAGA. Okay,

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Speaker 1: in a in the pre Trump world, Spencer Cox would

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Speaker 1: be already identified as a rising star in the Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: He has no chance right in the Maga Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: But his voice and how in his north Star about

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Speaker 1: what the tech companies have done to us and how

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Speaker 1: this has happened. I kind of think because he he's

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Speaker 1: a little bit younger than I am. He's in his forties,

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Speaker 1: so's he's a millennial governor, and I think he's in

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Speaker 1: some ways more digital native and under in his better

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Speaker 1: he's just more conversant at explaining the harm. Right. It

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Speaker 1: did interview with this this older senator and they've identified

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Speaker 1: the harm, but they're not very conversant in explaining the harm.

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Speaker 1: You know, Donald Trump doesn't really you know, he's not

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Speaker 1: as conversant and couldn't explain it if he chose to. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's just just in some ways he's he's he's just

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Speaker 1: demographically out of touch. But it feels like we're in

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Speaker 1: a moment that if we're going to force the two

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Speaker 1: parties to sort of wait a minute, we've got to

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Speaker 1: put the country first every now and then they have

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Speaker 1: to be punished for their ways. And if the public

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Speaker 1: wants to just like they're exhausted from this, it may

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Speaker 1: be that that you need a third party scare. And

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Speaker 1: whether it's a third party scare, can you know every

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Speaker 1: every political party needs needs a check on itself, right,

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Speaker 1: the whole point of checks and balances are good whether

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Speaker 1: you're organizing a government or you're organizing policy, you're organizing

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Speaker 1: a political party. You know, you a political party doesn't

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Speaker 1: needs to have a check on its potential ideological excesses.

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Speaker 1: There's nobody checking the maga wing of the party anymore.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of checks in the first term,

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Speaker 1: there's not many checks this term. And we've seen fewer checks.

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Speaker 1: You know, you had, you had your Joe Mansions and

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Speaker 1: cinemas that were kind of the centrist check on the

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Speaker 1: Democrats before they're both gone, and there really isn't a

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Speaker 1: lot of space. I guess John Fetterman has suddenly sort

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Speaker 1: of kind of adopted that role, but I don't think

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Speaker 1: he has I don't think he has really the credibility

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Speaker 1: yet to be that check with the middle of the

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Speaker 1: road voter. Right. I think some on the right love

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Speaker 1: what he's doing, but but I think only for owning

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Speaker 1: the Lib's purposes, right, this whole trolley, this whole trolley mindset.

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Speaker 1: So that's what's frustrating is that we do of a problem.

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Speaker 1: We're going to have a part of it. Looks like

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Speaker 1: partisans on the right want to just try to harass

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Speaker 1: the left in under the name of trying to you know,

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Speaker 1: root out political violence, but without it all sort of

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Speaker 1: accepting the premise that hey, it's it's sadly a bipartisan affair,

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Speaker 1: and that basically it's the Internet that radicalizes folks and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter whether they come from stage left or

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Speaker 1: stage right. The one thing that we haven't that we

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Speaker 1: have in common here is the Internet has has been,

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Speaker 1: has been what's radicalized them. And if we're not going

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Speaker 1: to confront this problem this way right now, it is

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Speaker 1: going to get worse. Okay, if you ratchet up a

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Speaker 1: radical view of what you think the other side is doing,

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Speaker 1: I promise you the other side is going to respond

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Speaker 1: in a radical way, right and radicalism, reactionary radicalism. And

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Speaker 1: here we are right and this is this escalatory polarization

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Speaker 1: that we've been experiencing. I mean, you know, it's we've

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Speaker 1: seen it in the US Senate with the absurdity of

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Speaker 1: how we've destroyed the judiciary branch. And make no mistake,

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Speaker 1: we've destroyed the judiciary branch with this, with this partisan

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Speaker 1: gamesmanship in the Senate. And there's always this attempt to well,

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Speaker 1: but they started it. It doesn't matter which side I

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Speaker 1: of the alight talking about. But they started it. The

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Speaker 1: right will scream foror the left will scream, will scream

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Speaker 1: about Ruth Bader Ginsberg and Mark Garland. The fact is

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Speaker 1: they they both chose punishing the other side without thinking

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Speaker 1: about what it would do the judiciary itself. Right, we

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Speaker 1: turned the judiciary into the freaking House of Representatives where

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of fifty percent plus one judges are

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Speaker 1: out there, So you either have super liberal or super maga.

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Speaker 1: There is there is no you have sixty sixty five votes,

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Speaker 1: you would have this sort of moderate temperaments, you know,

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Speaker 1: which is really what our politics could use. I'm not

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Speaker 1: suggesting we all ideologically have to move to the center.

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Speaker 1: You know where I stand. I'm an incrementalist, but what

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Speaker 1: we need is moderate temperament to lead us. When you're

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Speaker 1: trying to lead three hundred and fifty million people, a

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Speaker 1: moderate temperament goes a long way. And our most successful

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Speaker 1: presidents have been of moderate temperaments, regardless of how you know.

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Speaker 1: Reagan and Obama pretty mainstream liberal Democrat, mainstream conservative Democrat,

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Speaker 1: almost identical temperaments, and in many ways they had I'm

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Speaker 1: sure there's some of you out there that have been

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Speaker 1: voting long enough where you voted for both of them

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Speaker 1: almost as much because of their temperament. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: a huge factor with my vote. I want to know

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Speaker 1: how this person's going to handle a crisis. I want

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Speaker 1: to know how this person's going to handle you know,

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Speaker 1: I certainly have issues, and there are you know, there

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Speaker 1: are there are veto there are candidates, there are issues

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Speaker 1: that I might veto at candidate on because the issue

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Speaker 1: matters to me that much. But for the most part,

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Speaker 1: I'm a character and temperament guy, and we could use

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Speaker 1: a moderate temperament. But we have a we have an

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Speaker 1: information ecosystem and a political and a political system that

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Speaker 1: punishes moderation, not in ideology, which it does do that too,

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Speaker 1: but even punishes it in style. I think it's what

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Speaker 1: we would prefer as a body politic, but the way

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Speaker 1: our information ecosystem works, it seems to it seems to

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Speaker 1: almost force us into the exact opposite persona. There's a

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Speaker 1: reason results matter more than promises, just like there's a

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Speaker 1: reason Morgan and Morgan is a Maria because largest injury

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Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

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Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

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Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

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Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

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Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

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Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered that original offer six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So with more than one thousand lawyers across

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Speaker 1: the country, they know how to deliver for everyday people.

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Speaker 1: If you're injured, you need a lawyer, You need somebody

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Speaker 1: to get your back. Check out for Thepeople dot com

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Speaker 1: Slash podcast, or dial pound Law Pound five to nine

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Speaker 1: law on your cell phone. And remember all law firms

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Speaker 1: are not the same, So check out Morgan and Morgan.

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Speaker 1: Their fee is free unless they win. Just a few

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Speaker 1: interesting updates on the campaign trail that you might have missed.

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Speaker 1: We have the redistricting wars obviously, and one of the

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Speaker 1: questions is going to be, you know, the big the

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Speaker 1: big campaign fight on the ballot is going to be

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Speaker 1: in California where essentially the maps are going to be

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Speaker 1: on the ballot for this Novembers election up or down.

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Speaker 1: You have a huge amount of money. There are now

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Speaker 1: three different entities essentially trying to stop this remap. You

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Speaker 1: have Charlie Munger Junior, who is the son of Charlie

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Speaker 1: Munger longtime business partner to Warren Buffett back in the day.

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Speaker 1: He's really been a political lately. He used to be

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Speaker 1: a big Republican donor. I don't think he's a big

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Speaker 1: trumpy is not as trumpy as some other Republicans. But

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Speaker 1: he was a big supporter of the original redistricting commissions

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Speaker 1: that are out there, so he wants to defend what

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Speaker 1: he did. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he's going to campaign, but interestingly,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like he's agreed to sort of not be

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Speaker 1: the face of any of the movements. He's chosen not

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Speaker 1: to work directly with Munger's group, he doesn't plan to

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Speaker 1: work with Kevin McCarthy's group. He does seem to be

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Speaker 1: focused on on keeping his independence. I think he doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to look like he seems to be trying to

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Speaker 1: find a way he wants to be. He wants to

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Speaker 1: be pro reform, but not necessarily looking like he's help

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Speaker 1: I don't think he wants to use the Republicans to

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Speaker 1: help him get that message across. I think he's trying

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Speaker 1: to have it. But that's a real challenge if you're

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Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom and the Democrats who are trying to get

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Speaker 1: this referendum pass and that you have sort of you

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Speaker 1: now have three different entities that are all trying to

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Speaker 1: spend money to get those in different ways. Right, You're

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Speaker 1: going to have now Arnold who is going to not

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Speaker 1: associate himself with the Republican groups but sort of be

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Speaker 1: talking straight to the independence you got. Charlie Munger's put

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Speaker 1: a ton of money in there, Kevin McCarthy's got a

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Speaker 1: hundred million to spend. We'll see. It's my understanding and

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Speaker 1: focus groups that the surprising thing to my sources who

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Speaker 1: I've been talking to about this are is how engaged

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Speaker 1: voters are in California about it. They're pretty well educated,

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Speaker 1: they get it, and those that believe they can get

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Speaker 1: this map passed think that this is not a bank shot.

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Speaker 1: That it is important to these voters if you want

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Speaker 1: to get them to approve this map, they really have

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Speaker 1: to believe it's temporary, and they have if they don't

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Speaker 1: believe that this will revert back to the public process,

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Speaker 1: the sort of the commission process for twenty thirty and

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Speaker 1: beyond that. That's the key when a voter is is

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Speaker 1: here's the message for it, and they believe that aspect

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Speaker 1: of it that this is just temporary justify what Texas

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Speaker 1: is doing. They think it's enough to get a majority.

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Speaker 1: So I do think this is still a campaign and

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Speaker 1: it's infant, but it is obviously in some ways may

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Speaker 1: even you have Virginia governor, you have New Jersey governor,

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Speaker 1: you have New York City mayor, it's you could argue

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Speaker 1: this California referendum is suddenly the most important election this

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, even as the Virginia and New

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Speaker 1: Jersey are traditionally a little more high profile. And of

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Speaker 1: course mayor of New York City. Speaking of the redistricting,

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Speaker 1: watch Missouri very closely because Missouri did its map, but

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Speaker 1: they have an interesting addendum to their constitution. So under

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Speaker 1: state law, if a petition reaches roughly one hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: signatures in six of eight congressional districts, the law that

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Speaker 1: the Missouri legislature passed with this new redistricting proposal that

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Speaker 1: would eliminate all but one Democratic leaning congressional district, basically

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Speaker 1: getting rid of the Kansas City Democratic seat. The law

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Speaker 1: would actually go before voters for an up or down vote,

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Speaker 1: and it could get repealed, and the lines don't go

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Speaker 1: into effect until that ballot referendum happens. So if they

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Speaker 1: get it, the Missouri would potentially have to put a

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Speaker 1: special election if they wanted to count for November twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six, and they successfully have a challenge to the

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Speaker 1: state law that qualifies for the ballot, we may have

429
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: a special spring election in like March or April. Perhaps

430
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,959
Speaker 1: the August primary Missouri is in August primary state. Perhaps

431
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: it goes on there, although that seems super late, right,

432
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 1: because that's when congressional candidates got to know which district

433
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: am I running in. So keep an eye out on

434
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,479
Speaker 1: whether and it's going to tell me how organized are

435
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: the Democrats nationally? Right, The California Democrats turned out to

436
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: be very organized. I mean, whatever you think of the idea,

437
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 1: what Gavin Newsom has pulled off something that I was

438
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: I was circumspect. I thought that with so many different stakeholders,

439
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: so many different people wanting, caring about their district lines

440
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: and all of this stuff, the fact that Gavin Newsom

441
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,479
Speaker 1: got that whole party to row in the same place,

442
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: it's just, you know, you got to admire the political

443
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 1: leadership there. That is not an easy thing. He has

444
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: pulled off is that him or is there a pretty

445
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: strong national Democratic Party organization behind him. We're going to

446
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: find out in Missouri, right whether there is a whether

447
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: the Democrats are organized nationally is they clearly were in

448
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: California to push back on this because there is a

449
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: you know, essentially a plan B in Missouri to go

450
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: to the voters and get an up or down there.

451
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 1: I just think it'll be really telling. But I have

452
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: to tell you there was an item in my old

453
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: my old publication I worked at before NBC, the Hotline,

454
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: and it was just a simple construction, which is what's

455
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: always the beauty of the hotline, covering the coverage, right,

456
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: and they note I'm just going to read you the

457
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: item verbatim. Former Transportation Secretary Pete Buotage will return to

458
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: his old state this week and rally with the Indiana

459
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: Democratic Party against redistricting. That came from a press release. Meanwhile,

460
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: Hacking Jeffrey spent the weekend in California raising millions for

461
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: Fournia Proposition fifty, the Democrats redistricting ballot initiative. This is

462
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,479
Speaker 1: the second trip Jeffries is made to California to support

463
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: the redistricting effort. This is to me, the real sort

464
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: of challenge for the Democrats. On one hand, they're trying

465
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: to stop redistricting efforts, bringing in a national star to

466
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: try to do it in Indiana. Simultaneously, they're going to

467
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: California to raise money to try to support a re

468
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: redistricting effort out there. You know, it doesn't take a

469
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: communications genius to say you got a messaging problem. Right

470
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: Gone are the days where you could message in isolation.

471
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: You could somehow talk to one group over here, tell

472
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: them something, talk to another group one hundred miles away,

473
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: and somehow they wouldn't hear. You know, you promised that

474
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: you were going to deal with this landfill issue in

475
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: this county over here. You told them, don't worry, the

476
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: landfill's not coming to your county. It'll stay there. And

477
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: you know, back when when communication wasn't shared so quickly,

478
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: you know, a politician could essentially talk out of both

479
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: sides of their mouth and get away with it for

480
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: a period of time until reporters over time shared information

481
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: quick enough that you couldn't do that. And I think

482
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: this is when I was reading this item, You're like,

483
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: it just made my head hurt. On one hand, a

484
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: major Democratic Party star is trying to stop a redistricting

485
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: effort in Indiana. On the other hand, a major Democratic

486
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: star is going out to California to raise money to

487
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: help a redistricting effort in another state. I think it

488
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: goes to why this is again, I understand the tactical

489
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: decision that the Democrats made here. They feel as if, hey,

490
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: look what they're doing. They had no choice. But it

491
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: is a reminder of how complicated this effort is going

492
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: to be. One other candidacy that I think you should

493
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: keep an eye on. That sort of fits. It's a

494
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: little bit more on which wing of the Democratic Party

495
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: is more ascended, right, the progressive wing for the moderate

496
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: peacemaking wing. The Georgia primary for the Georgia Democratic primary

497
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: for governor is becoming fascinating. You now have a former

498
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: Republican Lieutenant Governor, Jeff Duncan, right, who was an early

499
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: Trump critic, was on a glide path. He was Brian

500
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: Kemp's essentially, you know, on a you know, kind of

501
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: running mate. I mean, you run for LG on your

502
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: own in a primary, but you know, he was seen

503
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: as potentially assumed her apparent to Kemp. Duncan became, you know,

504
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: particularly after the attempt by Trump to essentially overturn the

505
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: Georgia election, you know, twisting the arms of party operatives.

506
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: Over time, became more and more of a Trump skeptic

507
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: to the point where he is, you know, he he

508
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: has now changed parties completely elected as a Republican in Georgia.

509
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: So you're not a moderate Republican when you're winning a primary.

510
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: You're pretty conventional conservative Republican as lieutenant governor in twenty

511
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: eighteen and now eight years later, hopes to be the

512
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: Democratic nominee for governor in twenty twenty six. Now, look,

513
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: so he clearly is more in that super moderate lane.

514
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: You now have a state Senator, Jason Stevies, your former

515
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: Atlanta mayor, Keisha Lance Bottoms who was worked for Biden

516
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: state rep. And Derek Jackson, the chief executive Michael Thurman,

517
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: who I believes run for state wide office. Before It's

518
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: suddenly a pretty crowded primary. There's a lot of Atlanta

519
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: Democrats in there, which could give Duncan an opportunity if

520
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: there's enough vote outside, if all of that, all of

521
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: this vote gets split up there. But it's a just

522
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: like the Michigan Democratic primary for Senate. There's a handful

523
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: of Democratic primaries that if they all go in the

524
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: same direction right the progressive wins or the or the

525
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: more center center left person wins, it may directionally tell

526
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: us where where are rank and filed Democrats right? Are

527
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: they angry and ready to go left? Or are they

528
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 1: exhausted and frustrated and looking for what I call our

529
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: peacemakers right, trying to trying to win win over the middle.

530
00:32:55,280 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: But in particular now Georgia Democratic Primary for governor, Michigan

531
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: Democratic primer percentate. Both of them feature candidates from all

532
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: wings of the Democratic Party, so they're all going to

533
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: be pretty good tests where the energy of the party is.

534
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: A couple more things to talk about quickly. On twenty

535
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: twenty five, we're now seeing the real money is coming

536
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: into both New Jersey and Virginia. There was some question

537
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: with the National Republicans invest is heavily in Virginia as

538
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: they did the last time. They now have and there's

539
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: a real reason for that. Like it Ultimately in the

540
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: Republicans I've talked to about the Virginia races, it's not

541
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: that they're conceding the governor's race to Abigail Spamberger, but

542
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: they're conceding that it's an uphill battle, but they don't

543
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: want to get swept. And if there's one candidacy that

544
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: they're trying to save, it is the Attorney General Jason Miaris,

545
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: and I had a smart Democrat say that he thinks

546
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: it's the single most important race to understand whether Democrats

547
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: truly have a shot at the midterms or whether Republicans

548
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: can hold off the flip. And it's because of the

549
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, you're seeing. You have a Republican incumbent with

550
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: a lot of financial advantages. You have a Democratic challenger

551
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: who's being painted as soft on crime, which is what

552
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: both Republicans and Democrats tell me is likely to be

553
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: among the bread and butter issues you see in the midterms,

554
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: especially if the economy is not good. Republicans are going

555
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,720
Speaker 1: to be running against Democrats is sort of softened the border,

556
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: soft on crime, soft on law and order stuff, especially

557
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: if they can't run in the economy. And right now

558
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: things don't look great with the economy. And by the way,

559
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: it may not matter. Right the economy may be everything,

560
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: and it may overwhelm that. But we're going to find

561
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: out how effective can a law and order campaign overcome

562
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: sort of momentum that autumn sort of sort of the

563
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: momentum that the Democrats have as simply being the out party, right,

564
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: you know, they have a few advantages going for them

565
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: in these offier elections in Virginia, federal government workers being

566
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: laid up, they have a lot of advantages. Can munt

567
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: can the financial advantage they will have and the issue

568
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 1: of law and order combat that right? That Virginia AG

569
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: race this cycle could foreshadow what the mid terms look like.

570
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: In particular, we're seeing a little bit in the governor's race,

571
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: and don't get me wrong, I think there'll be some

572
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: culture war type back and forth between the two governor's candidates.

573
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: But in many ways, all that, you know, there's Spamberger's

574
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: now up with a lot of negatives, almost just exclusively

575
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: in northern Virginia, hitting win some earl sears on just

576
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: simply being supportive of Trump, which ironically she doesn't have

577
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: Trump's endorsement yet I think she'll get it because everything

578
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: is about helping turn out for the pot of the

579
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: ticket there the AG candidate, and if you don't have

580
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: people enthused about the gubernatorial candidate. It's he's gonna you know,

581
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: you're just gonna have a turnout issue that's going to

582
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: trickle down and cost you down the ballot. So I

583
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: suspect Trump comes in. It's why the RGA, I think,

584
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: has come in with real money to help the top

585
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: of the ticket, because ultimately the one they're trying to

586
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: see can they save one of the three seeds that

587
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: they currently hold in Virginia. As for New Jersey, you've

588
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: seen the Republicans have also sort of equalized money there.

589
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 1: We're going to have our first debates. They're going to

590
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: have two debates. I want to watch those debates. I

591
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: think that they may matter more than we fully appreciate.

592
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: I think gubernatorial debates voters care a little bit more

593
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 1: about than Senate debates. To be frank, I think Senate

594
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: campaigns are always read versus blue again one of the

595
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: challenges for these independent candidates. But governor's races, I think

596
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 1: more often there are voters that will will we'll, we'll

597
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: choose a person over a party if there's a specific

598
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: issue that really animates them. And that's why I actually

599
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: want to withhold judgment. I have a sneaking suspicion that

600
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: New Jersey's going to be awfully closed. But let's see

601
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: how the debates play out on that front. And then

602
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: we've seen it looks like Donald Trump is conceding the

603
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: New York City mayor's race to Mom Donnie. It is

604
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: fascinating to watch these progressive pressure campaign on a Keem

605
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: Jeffreys and Chuck Schumer, who have not yet endorsed Mom Donnie.

606
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: The governor of New York did. But remember, everybody, you know,

607
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: I talked about incentive structures at the top. Why does

608
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: Kathy Hulkle have to endorse Mom Donnie because she's got

609
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: a primary challenger from the left. Neither Jeffries or Schumer

610
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: are worrying about that at the moment. Hokel has to

611
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: worry about that in the very very near term. Her

612
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: numbers aren't that great anyway. She can't afford a very

613
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: competitive primary that would likely be negative, ugly, and only

614
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: make her potential campaign against the least staphonic that much harder.

615
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: So I look at the whocal endorsement as a she's

616
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: got primary opponents, that's what she's worried about, and she

617
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 1: can't afford to alienate the progressive flank as much. Jeffries

618
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: has got a whole other problem. He's got a whole

619
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: bunch of Democrats running all over the country who are

620
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: don't want the future Speaker of the House looking like

621
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 1: they endorse a socialists, And so I don't envy the

622
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: situation Jeffries finds himself in. But I go back, Jeffries

623
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: and Schumer should have been more hands on when Cuomo

624
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: jumped into that race and basically screwed it all up

625
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: for the for the for the mainstream wing of the

626
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: Democratic Party. The fact that they sort of look the

627
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: other way is arguably why they're in this situation they're in.

628
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: But that's a tough that's a tough position he's in politically.

629
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: I know. I'm guessing Jeffries will end up endorsing him

630
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: or voting for him, not endorsing him. We'll see. But

631
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: I do think this is as much about his branding.

632
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: What happens to his branding as the guy who's essentially

633
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: running to be Speaker of the House in the midterms.

634
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: There's a lot of Democrats running in House races that

635
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: are nervous that he gets painted as a socialist. So

636
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: I do think that is what's, among other things, politically,

637
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: what's making it very uncomfortable for Jefferson. All right, I

638
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that interview with those two independent candidates.

639
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: So and in fact, my top five lists this week

640
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: is on independence, and it's my top five list of

641
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: states most likely to elect an independent to the Senate

642
00:39:54,440 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: top top jest. Some of it is going to be

643
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: based on history, some of it is going to be

644
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: based on, you know, the electorate and just sort of

645
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: how you know, do you have an electorate that thinks

646
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: that is very partisan, Like you know, you take state

647
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: of North Carolina, which is a very evenly divided state,

648
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: but it's it's sort of divided by polls. It's a

649
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: polarized electorate. It is basically forty five are forty five

650
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: d in a very small size of independence versus a

651
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: place like Alaska, which is sort of filled with sort

652
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: of this sort of independent you know, a little left,

653
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: little right, little libertarian, little of this, and it's just

654
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 1: a more fluid electorate. It's not as it's not as partisan,

655
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: it's not as hardcore. So my top five list of

656
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: states most likely the elect and independent to the Senate, Well,

657
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: obviously I got to start with two states that have

658
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: done it. I don't count Bernie in this one. I know,

659
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: although Vermont has arguably had two independent one that was

660
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: independent that caucused with Republicans. Still he switched parties and

661
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: caucus with Democrats and Jim Jeffords, and then you had Bernie.

662
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: But in some ways, I don't put Vermont there anymore.

663
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: I think it's decidedly I think it's going to be

664
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: very difficult for somebody. You can get elected as an

665
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 1: independent if you're further to the left of the Democratic Party,

666
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: but I don't know if you can do that, you know,

667
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: from the other way. So look, I think you have

668
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: to put Alaska and Maine is one and two because

669
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: they've done it, and there's their electorates are fluid enough

670
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: that it's supportive. They've elected independence for governor, right, and

671
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: I think that that is, you know, these are the

672
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: states that are most righte for non major party candidates

673
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: to have some success. Alaska and Maine obviously are too.

674
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: The next state on my list, number three is Minnesota.

675
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: In fact, you could argue now that if you're right

676
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 1: of center in Minnesota and this is going to actually

677
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: get I got some interesting feedback about my battleground state

678
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: list and a little bit of pushback of having Minnesota

679
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: ranked higher than New Hampshire of states on the Republican

680
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: side most likely to make it into the battleground right

681
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: blue states that Republicans might be able to contest, And

682
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,240
Speaker 1: the argument is that while Minnesota is always very close,

683
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: Republicans never seem to be able to, you know, to

684
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: crack the code that in twenty fourteen, for instance, Al

685
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: Frankin's reelection year, he won by ten points and that

686
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: was a great Republican year, So I Republicans couldn't make

687
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: Franklin sweat in twenty fourteen. Then the argument goes that

688
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: this is a this is a much harder state. You

689
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: know that there's a hard ceiling on the Republicans, and

690
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: I you know, it's an old hotline buddy that was

691
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: pushing back on me. And I think my buddy Quinn

692
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: is right. Quinn, I'm throwing I'm giving I'm throwing you

693
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: this bone. I do agree New Hampshire probably it should

694
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: be New Hampshire over Minnesota. I still think there's an

695
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: opportunity there in Minnesota. But I think you're right. I

696
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: think the track record of New Hampshire. Recently, they just

697
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,919
Speaker 1: elected a Republican governor. It's been a long time since

698
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: Minnesota's elected a statewide Republican, has been at least over

699
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: a decade. I think, I think you make a compelling

700
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 1: case at New Hampshire should be ranked higher than Minnesota.

701
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: So Alaska one, Main two, Minnesota three, and my next

702
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: two are Sun Belt states. Arizona, who arguably had a

703
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: couple of independent acting senators even though they didn't get

704
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: elected as independents, and John McCain and Kirsten Cinema, And

705
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: there's something about it's electorate, right, there's a there's a

706
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: there's a it's a state that has a huge independent

707
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: voter registration. And when you're a transient state, right that

708
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: where a majority of the voters weren't born in that state,

709
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: that means you don't have as strong a ties on

710
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: partisanship as much. And I think, and so we should

711
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: give away what my number five state is of a

712
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: chance electing independent. That's Florida. Florida also is a huge,

713
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:15,919
Speaker 1: growing no party registration vote, and I think the opportunity

714
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: and ballot access isn't very difficult. Ditto in Arizona, that

715
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: also matters here, right, how difficult is ballid access to

716
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: get on there? You know, Texas is extraordinarily hard to

717
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: run as an independent. And even though you in theory

718
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: Texas is the type of electorate that maybe could be

719
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 1: supportive of it, I'm skeptical of it. So my top

720
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: five this week, top five states most likely with electorates

721
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: it would be open to electing an independent. And you

722
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: could actually picture it happening. Two places they've already happened

723
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: Alaska in Maine, right with Lisa Murkowski and and Angus

724
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: King both did get elected as independence. Now they caut

725
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: us with one side or the other, but they're I

726
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: think in they both have elected independent governors, So I

727
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: think there is a tradition there. Minnesota, right, they've had

728
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: some You know, this is a party that even the

729
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: Democratic Party is not named. It's the Democratic Farm Labor Party.

730
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: It was a coalition party. There used to be the

731
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: Farm Labor and then the Democrats that they merged. And

732
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: in fact that back in the day the Minnesota Republican

733
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: Party was referred to as the Independent Republican Party. There

734
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: was almost an over emphasis on the word independent and

735
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: less so on Republican so Minnesota, number three, number four Arizona,

736
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 1: and number five Florida. Other states that I contemplated. Nebraska,

737
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: I do think the fact that they have a unit

738
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: cameral legislature where you do not run or hold office

739
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: by party, does create an electorate that is comfortable with

740
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: candidates for office that don't associate with a major party.

741
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: The fact that their unit cameral legislature works that way,

742
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: I think does. I think it does help explain why

743
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: Osborne dan oz Born, who's running again, has has gotten

744
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 1: into the forties. On that front. Kansas, I think there's

745
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: something there. I think the Democratic brand is probably not

746
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: quite strong enough to elect a senator, but an independent

747
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: that leaned to the left but had a few things

748
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: that were appealing to right leaning independence, you could see it.

749
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: I put Idaho, South Dakota down here as well, because

750
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: we're going to find out right. I do think you're

751
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: going to have a little better in general running against

752
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: the two major parties, as there's usually a bit more

753
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: of an appetite for it out west than there is

754
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: out east here, particularly in some of the in some

755
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: of the states that have been around a while that

756
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: have of you know that have that have certainly have

757
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: very very very strong state and local political parties. All right,

758
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: so there's my top five lists. With that, let's do

759
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: a few questions ask Chuck. All right. First question comes

760
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: from Greg al and he writes, thanks for the show.

761
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask about your call for a politician

762
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: to run as a uniter. It's what the country needs.

763
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: But is it possible as a moderate who has voted

764
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: for both parties less presidential Canada? I recall running as

765
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: a uniter is President Obama, who came to prominence with

766
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: his unifying One America speech back in two thousand and four. However,

767
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: we call family members who perceived Obama as a divisive

768
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: radical who hated capitalists and Americans. In the Obama years,

769
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 1: I also noticed that compromise and unity were tough promises

770
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: to deliver on. Even if a politician followed through with concessions,

771
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: the opposing party could force failure by refusing to cooperate,

772
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: even when offered policies they previously supported. I hope you

773
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: can share some optimism. Well, look, I mean this is

774
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: why I don't think either either party. I think this

775
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: has to this almost has to be a pirate type

776
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: of situation where you just sort of where you have

777
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: an independent calls time out. You know, you guys have

778
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: lost your privileges to lead. You need to learn how

779
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: to lead. It's sort of it's it was the It

780
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: was how Jesse Ventura won his election in ninety eight.

781
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: He basically turned the two parties into tweetled the and

782
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: tweedled dumb, and it gained quick traction. It was it

783
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: was actually a short campaign. He was He was polling

784
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: in the high single digits, low double digits for the

785
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: longest time they have a debate. He's an outsized charismatic figure.

786
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: The two nominees, I think it was I think, if

787
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: memory serves, it was Norm Coleman, future US senator, and

788
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: Skip Humphrey, the son of Hubert Humphrey, And they just

789
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: they came across a stale compared to the charismatic ex wrestler,

790
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: right and former actor you know who's uttered one of

791
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: my favorite movie lines of all time, I don't got

792
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: time to bleed from the first predator, which I think

793
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: he used in his campaign at and I think it

794
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: was the title of his memoir, of his political memoir.

795
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: But the point is is that he didn't run as

796
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: saying this is you know, yes, it was sort of

797
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: with the Pero Reformed Party at the time, but in

798
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: some ways it was, Hey, I want to send a

799
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: message these two parties and sober up. And I think

800
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: what you outline here the inability for one party to

801
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: concede anything to the other party right now, it's not

802
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: going to happen. If you want to know how nineteen

803
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: nineties by partisanship happened. It happened because Ross Perot essentially

804
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: threatened his candidacy, threatened the success of both parties at

805
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: one point or another, and so it almost served as

806
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: a force as a mechanism to force by partisanship. You know,

807
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: the nineties recipe for bipartisanship also had one party controlling Congress,

808
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: one party controlling the presidency. In the twenty first century,

809
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 1: the handful of times we've had that it didn't, it didn't.

810
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: It didn't lead to in many bipartisan successes. And in

811
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: some ways I think this is thanks to the internet

812
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: age to be fur filthy, Frank, I mean, that's that's

813
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: what I think has done it. I think that in

814
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 1: the you know where anytime you quote helped the other party,

815
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: it becomes a problem for the base, and they amplify it,

816
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: and they get everybody fired up, and they threaten primary challenges,

817
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, this wayward moderate R moderate

818
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 1: D has been tamed by the outrages of the of

819
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: the base. We saw a version of that on the

820
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 1: Republican side with Joni Ernst and the confirmation of Pete

821
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: Hegsea right, she was basically shamed and threatened and harassed

822
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: until she agreed to do it. In the pre internet days,

823
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 1: Haig Seth never makes it. Eg Seth probably doesn't even

824
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: even get out of committee in the pre internet days,

825
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 1: but essentially making it public and forcing it that way

826
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: did so. I concur with you that it's not going

827
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: to come from one of the two major parties and

828
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: that they would successfully do it. I do think a

829
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: term with an independent basically just highlighting the fact that

830
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: both parties have failed us and have helped tear this

831
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: country apart, would would could could serve as that a

832
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: sort of return sort of Like I said, I refer

833
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: to sobering up the two political parties. Next question comes

834
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: from Lincoln from Columbus, Ohio, but he makes it clear

835
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 1: he's not a Buckeye fan. Well, That's why I'm taking

836
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: your question. Lincoln. By the way, I love it, Lincoln

837
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 1: from Columbus. Maybe I can meet Columbus from Lincoln anyway, Hey,

838
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: Chuck la cheeserie if you know you know. I love

839
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: the toodcast and appreciate the commentary, extended interviews and deep

840
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: dives into all things politics and politics adjacent news stories.

841
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: You're right, we need more in depth conversations in fewer

842
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: sound bites. I have a question about Senate and House hearings.

843
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: Do the people testifying have an idea of the questions

844
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: in advance? Obviously this would be more partisan, because when

845
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: RFK testified, I can't imagine Democrats would provide their questions,

846
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: but I can see Republicans trying to curry favor with

847
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 1: the White House, if not overtly providing questions in advance,

848
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: perhaps in a meaning mentioning that a question like that

849
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: may come up with a link and a no. Thanks

850
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: for the work and information to look forward to the

851
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: mornings when I see the pod drop, well, it's great

852
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: to hear. Thanks Lincoln. Appreciate that. On hearings, you know,

853
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 1: it depends. There's some people do mock hearings. A friendly hearing.

854
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: Right your friendly side, you will know, you know, you

855
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: might know they might have Hey, I'll uh, I know

856
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 1: you're going to get attacked for this issue. I'll be

857
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: able to ask you this question on a follow up.

858
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: So the point is the answer is yes, okay, what

859
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: you suspect is true partisan. You know, anybody that is

860
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: that is favorable to the person testifying, if that person

861
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,280
Speaker 1: is in government and has a relationship that it likely

862
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 1: means they have some sort of professional relationship with that senator,

863
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 1: with that Senate staffer, with that House member, with that

864
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: House staffer. So in that sense, yes, they're told, hey,

865
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask about this, this, and this if

866
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 1: they're friendly. Obviously you don't you don't get the questions

867
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: in advance of the others. But you know, if you

868
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: don't know what's coming, you're not very good at your job,

869
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: or you don't have a staff that's very bright about this.

870
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 1: I've never watched one of these congressional hearings and been

871
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: surprised by a question. Right, Sometimes you might get surprised

872
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,760
Speaker 1: if it's like arcane, it'll be like oh, and again,

873
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: when you're surprised as the person testifying, it means your

874
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: staffers blew it. You know, a good staffer should know, Hey,

875
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: Senator Schmengi is obsessed with this one arcane issue. No

876
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 1: one else is going to ask about it, but you

877
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: may be asked about it from him or her. You

878
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: better know it. But no, your suspicion on essentially partisans

879
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 1: help helping the friendlies is one hundred percent trough. There's

880
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: always by the way it happens in the White House

881
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 1: press room, there are certain reporters that are essentially used

882
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: by the person at the podium. Maybe they don't know

883
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: the question that's going to be asked, but they know

884
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 1: it's not going to be antagonistic, and they go to

885
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: them as almost like a break if they're if they're

886
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: if they're getting attacked. And you know every press secretary

887
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: has had those in their back pocket. This one has

888
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 1: more friendlies than most that I've noticed. Next question, boy,

889
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: you absolutely nail it in your nine to fifteen commentary.

890
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: Politics should be about I believe in A and you

891
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: believe in Z, and we meet somewhere around L M

892
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 1: N O P. But Congress now seems allergic to compromise,

893
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: acting as a blank check for Trump's agenda. I also

894
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: agree that social media fuels division. I even deactivated my

895
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: own accounts after hearing every network link the latest shooting

896
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: to online extremism. Podcasts can be similarly insular, Yes they can,

897
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 1: though yours stands out for presenting multiple viewpoints, which I

898
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: really appreciate. Michael C. From Douglasville, Georgia, Well, I appreciate

899
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: you noticing that it's what I'm trying to do. That's

900
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 1: a frustration of the sort of the architecture that the

901
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: tech companies have created for those of us in this

902
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: independent space. I you know, I appreciate substack. You can

903
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: sort of curate yourself. They don't feel I don't feel

904
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: like they use algorithms to push stuff on me. It's

905
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: you're you only get pushed stuff from the actual publisher

906
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: of the content or people that you know. If you

907
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,280
Speaker 1: decide to subscribe, then you're asked to to to spread

908
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: the word. It's a it's a it's a healthier way

909
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: to do it on that front. But the you know,

910
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: that's the problem, right, And you see, I don't want

911
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 1: to build an audience where I feel like I'm captured

912
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 1: by the audience. Now, I just I am a podcast

913
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:24,399
Speaker 1: listener because I'm trying to get more information. I sort

914
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: of listened to three types of podcasts. One is deep

915
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 1: dives on history, one is on economic and a bunch

916
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: of sports. Not gonna lie, maybe one or two in

917
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: sports gambling, a few in sports cards, but quite a

918
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: few on history on that stuff. And I want information

919
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: over commentary. Right, I don't necessarily want left right commentary.

920
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: I can read the left right commentary on that front,

921
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: but I do think that, you know, I'm very mindful.

922
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 1: I don't want I don't want to I don't want

923
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: an audience. I don't want to feel like I've been

924
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,879
Speaker 1: capped stured by my subscribers or my audience, or however

925
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: you want to look at it. I think that you've

926
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: seen that. I feel like I see that in the

927
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: New York Times, you know, when when they chased away

928
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: James Bennett from being editorial page editor of the opinion section.

929
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: He didn't do anything wrong, he didn't he didn't do

930
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: anything fireable by the editors, but there was a revolt

931
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: among subscribers, and there they were concerned about losing subscribers

932
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: and losing it, and it seems like he was sacrificed

933
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: for that. Well, when you make a decision based on

934
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: viewership or who's watching. Look, I don't want to get

935
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: into too many details, but you know, these were these

936
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: were some of the struggles when when when I was

937
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 1: trying to do a a a non ideological partisan show

938
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: on politics on a cable channel that had a history

939
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: of being partisan, and it was the audience. The audience

940
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: was uncomfortable with it. They didn't like when I would

941
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: put Republicans on and it would become a thing, and

942
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: I didn't like that I was being used by the

943
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: right at times to try to do it was just

944
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: a mess. But it's what happens when you have audience capture,

945
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: and it is something I'm trying really hard not to

946
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: have audience capture. I appreciate you noticing it, and I'm

947
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: trying so thank you, and we'll spread the word. All right,

948
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sneak in at least one more question here.

949
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: I've got a little I'm on the clock before taping,

950
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: so I want to see how many can get in.

951
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: James E writes, is it me or does it seem

952
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: like the right are being opportunity to utilizing their friend's

953
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: death as a reason to go after the left. I

954
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: don't think it's just you. If you hear my commentary top,

955
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 1: that's I think exactly what's happening. Seems like such an

956
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 1: odd time to go on the attack rather than to

957
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: mourn a supposed friend. Have there been other instances in

958
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: the past of a political death or assassination being used

959
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: to attack the other side so soon after the incident. Well,

960
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: here's the thing. In the Internet era, we see it all,

961
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, and it gets It's something that I think

962
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: social media also provides us with that. God. This is

963
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: why I think it's an experiment gone haywire on our brains.

964
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: I can't remember if I shared this earlier with you

965
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: guys or with my friend Chrystaliza on the weekly podcast

966
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:27,919
Speaker 1: I do for his feed. But John pot Horitz, who's

967
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: an editor at Commentary magazine. He's a conservative commentator, had

968
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: a fascinating thread over the weekend about how the real

969
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: issue with social media is that too many good people

970
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: have allowed too much of their of their inner thoughts

971
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: go public. And what he was saying is that look,

972
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: in any given second, if our thought, if every thought

973
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: that was in our head, do this exercise and think

974
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: about everything you may have thought about for a split second,

975
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: involving your life, anything about it, right, relationships, you name it.

976
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: If all those thoughts were broadcast on social media, do

977
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,959
Speaker 1: you think you'd have any friends left? Would you still

978
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: be married, would you still be in relationships? Would you

979
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 1: be seen as a madman? Would you be seen as crazy? Right?

980
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: I think you sort of get what I'm saying, or

981
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: maybe I'm the weirdo that is admitting that you know

982
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 1: you get. There's plenty of things you think that you

983
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: don't say, and somehow social media. Like I was reading,

984
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: I was reading a quote from somebody who was who oh,

985
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: I know what it was. It was an elected official

986
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 1: down in my hometown in South Florida, in Miami Palmetto Bay,

987
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: one of these invented towns in Dade County, I say invented.

988
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: When I was growing up, there were thirty one municipalities.

989
01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: I think we're up the thirty six down there in

990
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 1: Miami Dade County. Palmetto Bay is now one of them.

991
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: It all used to be unincorporated Dade County, so we

992
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: all wrote miamis our is our address? Which is I

993
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: grew up an unincorporated Dade County. Otherwise I describe it

994
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: as East Kendall if you're if you're scoring at home,

995
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: but an elected official went out there and said something

996
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: really you know, said something really not good about Charlie Kirkstaff.

997
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: I don't remember the exact things. I'm hesitant to characterize

998
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: it other than it was inappropriate, and certainly the timing

999
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: was inappropriate. And the guy had said he goes he

1000
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: woke up the next morning and regretted sending it, right,

1001
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 1: it was heat of the moment. I bring this up

1002
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 1: because I think that that's where we've let why social

1003
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: media is so so toxic and and so bad for

1004
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: our brains. Right, there's no there, there's no uh, there's

1005
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 1: no sort of It should sit in drafts, right, Like

1006
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: you know, if you're worried about your inner id saying

1007
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: something that you'll regret in the morning, It's almost like

1008
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: you should be able to put a small g governor

1009
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 1: and your Twitter feed and just say send all tweets

1010
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: to draft, and then the next morning reread them and

1011
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: see if you want to send them. But of course,

1012
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, nobody wants to do that because they want

1013
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: to be in the moment. You want to see if

1014
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: you go viral or whatever. Right, and so I just

1015
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: bring that up because I have a feeling in the

1016
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: pre social media world there were plenty of people who

1017
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: had unpopular opinions about political attacks or assassinations that if

1018
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: they shared them, and if there had been social media

1019
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: at the time, would have probably gotten them, you know, canceled,

1020
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: and maybe in some cases deservedly. So I'm not gonna

1021
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 1: even I don't want to sit here and defend that idea,

1022
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 1: but I think this is where social media is just

1023
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: it incentivizes stupidity, and it sometimes you know, remember the

1024
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: advice I assume everybody has heard this advice, if you

1025
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

1026
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: It's certainly a rule of thumb I have about people

1027
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: that die in politics. You know, if you know you,

1028
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: you certainly if you've got a disagreement, you want to highlight.

1029
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: Maybe wait, let the family mourn, have some grace, right,

1030
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And for some reason social media has

1031
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: made us think that the rules of decorum don't apply

1032
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: when how would you behave in you know, if you

1033
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: were face to face with that person, if you if

1034
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 1: you were trying, if you put yourself saying, if I

1035
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: was face to face how would I say this? It

1036
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 1: probably would make Twitter less interesting. But maybe that's a

1037
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: good thing on this front. But I'm really worried about

1038
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 1: a sort of red scare vibe, as I said at

1039
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: the top here, and a disingenuous attack on this that

1040
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 1: this is just trying to do guilt by association, which

1041
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: is you know, it's a very dangerous. It's you know,

1042
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: it's our polarization is bad. Are the increase in political

1043
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 1: violence that we've been experiencing is bad, and scapegoating and

1044
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: guilt by association is only going to make all of

1045
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 1: these things worse. All right, On that happy note, I

1046
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: think I'm going to pause here for twenty four hours.

1047
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 1: This was, like I said, I wanted to make it

1048
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: a little canpaigin heavier episode. But look, we're living in

1049
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: a rough period, and if we don't have the leaders

1050
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 1: to get us out of this rough period, do little

1051
01:04:53,920 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 1: things on your own, right, you know, just say thank you,

1052
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 1: say hi to somebody you don't know, acknowledge somebody's existence

1053
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 1: when you walk by them, you know, on a street corner.

1054
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: And Spencer Cox said, touch grass, right, but turn it off,

1055
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, I have I all the time try to

1056
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 1: do better when it comes to I'm a news junkie,

1057
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: I'm an information junkie, so I'm always looking for more information.

1058
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 1: But I have found different ways now to get information

1059
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:36,919
Speaker 1: without using social media. Not totally gone. I'm not totally

1060
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: kicked the habit. You know, I might be smoking one

1061
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 1: cigarette a day, but I'm not smoking twenty and I

1062
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: think that's the I think if everybody took that advice,

1063
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, wean themselves off, we might have a better

1064
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: digital atmosphere. So with that, I'll take a break until

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01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: we upload again. See in twenty four hours. Hey,