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Speaker 1: Novel, Hey listener. In this episode, there are mentions of

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Speaker 1: violence against women, coercive control, and murder. There's also plenty

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Speaker 1: of lighter stories about my life and friends. You even

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Speaker 1: get to meet my mom, and believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: she is a hoot. Now. I think I swear a

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Speaker 1: few times too, and given my age, it's just too

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Speaker 1: late to make a polite woman of me now. So

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Speaker 1: consider yourself warned. If you do listen and are impacted

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Speaker 1: by any of our themes, you can reach out to

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Speaker 1: No More, a domestic violence charity we've partnered with. They

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Speaker 1: have lots of great resources to help you or your

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Speaker 1: loved ones. You can find them at no More dot org.

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Speaker 1: That's no More Dot. There's nothing quite like flying in

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Speaker 1: a small twin engine plane. The turbulence, the way the

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Speaker 1: engine roars at you. There's always a moment in lift

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Speaker 1: off when you feel like you're taking life into your

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Speaker 1: own hands, and I guess that's where the thrill is.

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Speaker 1: On one of my favorite trips with Bob, we flew

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Speaker 1: out over the Valley of Fire and into California's Death Valley.

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Speaker 1: The mountain ridges and grand expanses of sand were absolutely breathtaking.

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Speaker 1: Eventually we touched down on a small, unattended strip in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the National Park. Bob took my hand

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Speaker 1: and help me out of the private plane. I felt

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Speaker 1: like I was a pretty woman.

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Speaker 2: When I was a little girl. My mama used to

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Speaker 2: lock me in the attic when I was bad, which

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Speaker 2: was pretty often, and I would pretend I was a

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Speaker 2: princess trapped in the tower by a wicked queen. And

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Speaker 2: then suddenly, this night on a white horse, when these

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Speaker 2: colors flying would come charging up and draw his sword,

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Speaker 2: and he would climb up the tower and rescue me.

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Speaker 1: My life hadn't been easy lately, especially when it came

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Speaker 1: to men. I'd been married twice already, and both marriages

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Speaker 1: had ended horribly. My first marriage it ended in a plain, old,

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Speaker 1: sad divorce, and the second marriage, well, while I was

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Speaker 1: separated from my husband, he took his own life. By

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Speaker 1: the time I met I was juggling being a single

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Speaker 1: parent to my nine year old daughter and trying to

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Speaker 1: build a career. And then suddenly here I was hiking

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Speaker 1: out to the Furnace Creek oasis with the picnic hamper

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Speaker 1: full of cheese, hummus, grapes, and shrimp cocktail, all prepared

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Speaker 1: by my doctor Bob. It was one of the most

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Speaker 1: romantic dates of my life. I'd gotten the fairy tale.

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Speaker 1: So what happened after he climbed out the tower and

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Speaker 1: rescued her.

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Speaker 3: She rescues him right back.

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Speaker 1: That's what I wanted. I wanted Bob to rescue me

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Speaker 1: from my normal, private, jetless life, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: rescue him from his past. In return. Up in the sky,

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Speaker 1: it felt like I could have it all.

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Speaker 4: So even when things.

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Speaker 1: Started to get weird on the ground, I kept my

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Speaker 1: head in the cloud. I'm Carol Fisher and from the

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Speaker 1: teams at Novel and iHeartRadio. You were listening to The

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Speaker 1: Girlfriends episode two, Lobsters for Dinner. You You've got You

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Speaker 1: You You.

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Speaker 5: So this is the neighborhood my mom lives in, which

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Speaker 5: is a little bit more affluent then with a real

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Speaker 5: guard gate, not a fake one, but those kind of

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Speaker 5: gates are really popular here with no guards.

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Speaker 4: It's this Vegas. It's a false into security, right.

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Speaker 1: I'm driving over to my mom's house with a trunk

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Speaker 1: full of snacks. I've told my producer Anna to brace herself.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be full of Jewish ladies talking over

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Speaker 1: one another, eating and.

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Speaker 4: I brought lunch.

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Speaker 1: I went the whole food I got you vegan stuff.

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Speaker 4: I know my guests.

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Speaker 1: Mindy's here too. Her and my mom are very close.

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Speaker 6: We didn't want to give you this weather.

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Speaker 4: Well it's it's just like I.

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Speaker 7: Know, I just was thinking, why would we give you

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Speaker 7: London weather.

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Speaker 1: Mom provided Anna with a warm welcome of flavored fruit

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Speaker 1: waters three full bodied de utterance that she was told

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Speaker 1: in great detail she could use anywhere, and a vegan

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Speaker 1: magazine she had picked up at the grocery store. Equipped

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Speaker 1: with her new offerings. Anna was eventually invited to sit

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Speaker 1: down for lunch.

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Speaker 4: Do you know what vegan?

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Speaker 7: Yes, yes, this is vegan. Megan amazing, and this is vegan.

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Speaker 7: This is vegan.

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Speaker 1: If you ever wondered what it was like to be

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Speaker 1: mothered by three Jewish ladies at the same time, well

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Speaker 1: this is it. So what are we talking about?

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Speaker 7: After you're talking.

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Speaker 1: About I first introduced Bob to my mom and my

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Speaker 1: stepdad stand after we'd been dating for about a month,

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Speaker 1: and I was so excited. My mom wanted me to

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Speaker 1: find a good Jewish doctor and I had, so I

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Speaker 1: was really looking forward to seeing that warm, proud. You

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Speaker 1: know he did good, Carol look on her face, but

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Speaker 1: they both thought he was a little odd.

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Speaker 7: Oh, no one ever made Sand feel uncomfortable. But there

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Speaker 7: was something about him that Sand said, Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 7: this guy is really strange. He was an expert in everything.

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Speaker 7: He could do everything. And when I'm talking about the kitchen,

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Speaker 7: he know a goddamn thing about the kitchen.

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Speaker 1: Mom's feelings around Bob and the kitchen stemmed from a

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Speaker 1: disastrous early meeting where Bob offered to come over and

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Speaker 1: cook lobsters for dinner. But when he said lobsters, he

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Speaker 1: meant live lobsters. And when he said live lobsters, he

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Speaker 1: meant live lobsters that he expected my mom and stepdad

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Speaker 1: to buy.

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Speaker 7: We had to get lobster for him.

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Speaker 1: Not a very good start, and.

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Speaker 7: Dummies, we did that, and he should have for catrig

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Speaker 7: and flown to Maine to get them. I mean serious.

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Speaker 1: When we arrived at the house, Bob didn't seem interested

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Speaker 1: in stopping to talk to my mom at all. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he rushed straight into the kitchen to start cooking the

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Speaker 1: lobsters she had purchased. We watched on as he dramatically

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Speaker 1: plunged the crustaceans into boiling salted water, leaving a trail

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Speaker 1: of mess in his wake.

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Speaker 7: Everything was upside down and it didn't bother him at all.

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Speaker 1: It was disastrous.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I didn't need him to clean up. I

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Speaker 7: needed a cleaning crew with about eight people.

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Speaker 1: The thing is, even though my mom had concerns about him,

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Speaker 1: she never mentioned them to me again. She knew he

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Speaker 1: looked good on paper. I mean, not to believer the point,

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Speaker 1: but he was a flying Jewish doctor, for God's sake.

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Speaker 1: So sure he was a messy lobster cook, but you

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Speaker 1: could barely make a move in Las Vegas without somebody

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Speaker 1: telling you how accomplished Bob Bereenbaum was.

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Speaker 3: The thing about Bobby is he was at the top

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Speaker 3: of his game on most everything.

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Speaker 1: This is Ernie Sussman, a local urologist who Bob befriended

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Speaker 1: after he gave him flying lessons.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure he was well respected by the medical community.

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Speaker 3: He would fly as playing down in Mexico with other

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Speaker 3: doctors and do cleft palettes and do these free clinics.

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Speaker 3: So he had a good heart and he was a

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Speaker 3: pure plastic surgeon. It wasn't just about the money.

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Speaker 1: It was all of those accomplishments that made me overlook

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Speaker 1: some of his oddities, like how I heard he hated

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Speaker 1: smokers so much that he refused to treat them, or

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Speaker 1: how he would spend hours upon hours at his computer

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Speaker 1: ignoring me. Or the way his temper could go from

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Speaker 1: zero to one hundred in less than three seconds.

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Speaker 5: Were the other experiences why you felt like he saw

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Speaker 5: his rage.

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Speaker 1: So oh, I hung out a lot at his house,

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Speaker 1: and he'd come to mind. But he had the nicer home.

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Speaker 1: So when I didn't have my daughter and you were

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Speaker 1: in a shared custody and she was with their dad,

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Speaker 1: I would go over and spend time at his house.

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Speaker 1: So I was emptying the dishwasher one day and Bob

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Speaker 1: was nearby, and one of the glasses fell out of

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Speaker 1: my hands as I'm putting it in the cabinet, and

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Speaker 1: you might have thought that I broke something that was

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Speaker 1: a treasured antique. I've never quite seen anything like it.

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Speaker 1: His voice was raised, he's flushed, he's pissed. He's really

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Speaker 1: mad at me for breaking this glass. And I am perplexed,

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Speaker 1: Like I broke a glass, Bob, what the hell?

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Speaker 6: It's a glass?

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Speaker 1: He's like, well, you don't understand it's part of a set. Well,

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Speaker 1: where'd you get it? Will they have to be bob

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Speaker 1: as a set? How much were these glasses?

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Speaker 7: Will?

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Speaker 1: They're eight dollars a piece? Yes, And so now I'm pissed.

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Speaker 1: He's not backing down. So I go to my wallet

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Speaker 1: and get out eight dollars and I hand it to

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Speaker 1: him and said, here's for the glass. That was probably

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Speaker 1: the first time that I ever really experienced him mad

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Speaker 1: at me. I had witnessed him be frustrated with others,

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Speaker 1: but now it's directed at me, and it didn't feel good.

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Speaker 1: It didn't feel normal, and my reaction was fuck you.

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Speaker 1: But then after something like that, we would do a

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Speaker 1: flurry of fun stuff, like he flew us for a

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Speaker 1: romantic weekend away to Sedona, Arizona, where we met up

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Speaker 1: with his sister and her family. He once flew us

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Speaker 1: across the country to Florida just so I could take

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Speaker 1: my daughter to visit my grandmother. In fact, at one

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Speaker 1: point during our relationship, he took my daughter's skiing for

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Speaker 1: the day when I was busy at work. But actually

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Speaker 1: one of our most memorable trips was a weekend away

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Speaker 1: to a conference and during the flight there, I noticed

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Speaker 1: that Bob started to get really quiet, and at first

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Speaker 1: I tried to ignore it. It's like a weekend away.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited. I don't have my daughter with me. We're

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Speaker 1: going to have so much fun. But Bob didn't let up,

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Speaker 1: and by the time we got to the hotel he

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Speaker 1: was visibly angry. When I asked him what was wrong,

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Speaker 1: he turned to me, not saying a word, and he

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Speaker 1: just put his hands up in the air and he goes,

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Speaker 1: look at these dots, Carol, look at these dots on

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Speaker 1: my hand, Carol, You've given me syphless. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: what the hell, I've not given you syphless? How could

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Speaker 1: I have done that? But he wouldn't believe me and

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Speaker 1: started accusing me of being unfaithful. And just for the record,

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Speaker 1: I need you to know that I did not give

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Speaker 1: Bob sifless, Like there is no way I gave Bob sifless. Instead,

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Speaker 1: what I did do is I snuck off to make

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Speaker 1: a phone call to my mother and I told her

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Speaker 1: I really needed to get home right away because I

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Speaker 1: did not feel safe. But I had a problem. I

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Speaker 1: was stuck out in the middle of nowhere and I

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Speaker 1: didn't know how to get back.

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Speaker 7: I was just so worried about her, and I thought,

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Speaker 7: this guy is up to something.

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Speaker 1: So it turns out my mother then called Mindy.

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Speaker 8: Nan called and said, Carol's with Bob and she has

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Speaker 8: to fly home from somewhere in the middle of the country.

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Speaker 8: I don't know where they had landed. I don't remember,

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Speaker 8: and we have to get her home. And I said, okay,

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Speaker 8: is she okay? Said yeah, she's okay, but she can't

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Speaker 8: continue the flight.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I told him to get lost. I booked

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Speaker 1: a commercial flight and I headed back to Las Vegas alone.

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Speaker 6: When Bob got.

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Speaker 1: Back, we continued to date for a little while, but

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Speaker 1: it was never the same. Bob did go to the

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Speaker 1: doctor for his hands and was diagnosed with some kind

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Speaker 1: of contact dermatitis, which is a pretty common ailment for surgeons,

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Speaker 1: but he never apologized because apologizing, well, it really wasn't

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Speaker 1: Bob's thing. And then, after six months of dating, he

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Speaker 1: broke up with me. I'd be lying if I said

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Speaker 1: I wasn't devastated. And while I knew intellectually things weren't right,

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Speaker 1: there was still this part of me that thought we

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Speaker 1: could make it work. Perhaps I'd be able to change him,

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Speaker 1: and in turn, I'd get to live that pretty woman

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Speaker 1: ending I had always dreamt of. Turns out if you're

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Speaker 1: into your pretty woman trivia. In the original script, there

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Speaker 1: was not a happy end Vivian Julia Roberts's character. Either

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Speaker 1: she doesn't get her man or her fairy tale. Her

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Speaker 1: life just continues as if they never met. I can

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Speaker 1: see why they changed it, because the reality sucks. A

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Speaker 1: few weeks after Bob dumped me in the early summer

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Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety five, I met up with Mindy at

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Speaker 1: our favorite strip mall restaurant, The Mayflower, on the corner

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Speaker 1: of Sahara and Decatur. We loved it there. It was

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Speaker 1: upscale but not pretentious, and they had the best Chinese

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Speaker 1: fusion food in the city. When we arrived, we sat

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Speaker 1: down at our table, ordered our usual Mayflower shrimp and

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Speaker 1: grilled lemon grass chicken salad, and started to gossip conversationally.

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Speaker 1: There was really only one thing on the menu, Bob.

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Speaker 1: How I couldn't believe he'd broken up with me. The

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Speaker 1: sifless allegation, and all the questions we still had about

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Speaker 1: who this guy really was. Mindy felt like he never

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Speaker 1: really reached his true potential, probably because he was an asshole.

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Speaker 8: I was always surprised that he didn't run for office,

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Speaker 8: even you know, like president of the Clark County Medical

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Speaker 8: Association or some community board or something like that.

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Speaker 1: And then I said, oh, you.

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Speaker 8: Obviously don't know about the skeletons in his closet, And

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Speaker 8: I go, what skeletons in the closet?

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Speaker 1: So here, I am realizing at that moment that I

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Speaker 1: might be the only person in Las Vegas to know

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Speaker 1: about Bob's missing wife. Mindy clearly doesn't know anything. She

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Speaker 1: didn't even know he was married before, So I start

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Speaker 1: breaking it down. Before Bob moved to Las Vegas, he

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Speaker 1: was married to a woman named Gail cats Now. Gail

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Speaker 1: mysteriously went missing, and at one point Bob was accused

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Speaker 1: of murdering her. Apparently he was fully investigated and deemed innocent,

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Speaker 1: but his wife, Gail, well, she had never been found.

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Speaker 8: Oh my god, this was like, yeah, unsolved mysteries.

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Speaker 1: There's something you need to know about Mindy. Growing up,

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Speaker 1: she read Harriet the Spy, The Hardy Boys, and Sherlock Holmes.

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Speaker 1: As an adult, she would passed her time trying to

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Speaker 1: solve mysteries faster than Molder and Scully. Last year, her

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Speaker 1: favorite TV show was Only Murders in the Building. She's

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Speaker 1: a true crime nut, and I had essentially just her

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Speaker 1: a real life case to solve.

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Speaker 8: I was intrigued to the point of like, let's nail him.

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Speaker 1: That evening, Mindy hurried home to share her discovery with

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Speaker 1: her fiancee, Jeff.

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Speaker 6: Jeff said, I knew it.

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Speaker 8: I knew it from the minute I touched his hand.

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Speaker 8: An electric spark went through my body, like when you

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Speaker 8: have one of those dag things that you put in

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Speaker 8: your palm and it causes you to vibrate, you know.

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Speaker 8: It felt like that I knew it, and I'm going yeah, Right.

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Speaker 1: As Jeff and Mindy were riling each other up, I

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Speaker 1: was getting on with my life, bouncing back from the breakup,

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Speaker 1: taking my daughter to school. I guess the difference is

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Speaker 1: that Bob's story wasn't new to me. He had told

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Speaker 1: it to me on our first date, and despite our

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Speaker 1: ups and downs, I still believed him. But Mindy, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, she was like a dog with a bone.

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Speaker 1: She had to investigate for this was nineteen ninety five,

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Speaker 1: and we couldn't just type into Google like you can today.

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Speaker 1: But Mindy she had seen enough detective shows to know

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Speaker 1: that all the big libraries will have some sort of

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Speaker 1: newspaper archive. So off she heads to Clark County Public

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Speaker 1: Library on Flamingo and Maryland Parkway, a huge, red bricked

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Speaker 1: campus style building complex. It was Mindy's first real life

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Speaker 1: Watson and Holmes moment. She started searching what little she

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Speaker 1: could on the library computers. Then she headed to the

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Speaker 1: microfish machines to flick through newspapers New York or New

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Speaker 1: York Times. The Post.

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Speaker 8: I was searching his name and her name and coming

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Speaker 8: up with very little except for this one little snippet.

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Speaker 8: The parents of a surgeon's wife who disappeared after walking

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Speaker 8: out of her Eastside apartment a life days ago, said

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Speaker 8: yesterday that they fear their daughter is dead. Bierenbaum said

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Speaker 8: he and his wife had marital problems, and he had

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Speaker 8: argued with her just before she had walked out of

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Speaker 8: their East eighty fifth Street apartment at eleven fifteen on

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Speaker 8: July seventh. Bierenbaum said his wife said she was going

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Speaker 8: for a walk in Central Park, as she did frequently

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Speaker 8: to cool out. Please, said they cast barn Baum was

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Speaker 8: never seen leaving the building. It was like saucer eyes.

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Speaker 9: Oh God, if you had been so coming, so fucking

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Speaker 9: so bad, Helga les, You're a lot.

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Speaker 1: A few nights later, Mindy and Jeff are sitting on

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Speaker 1: the sofa watching the movie Boxing Helena. It's a notoriously

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Speaker 1: terrible movie about a murderous plastic surgeon who falls in

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Speaker 1: love with the woman and kidnaps her. In order to

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Speaker 1: keep her imprisoned in his house. He starts amputating parts

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Speaker 1: of her body until finally she's just a Torso, let's

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Speaker 1: light up. Not really my kind of movie.

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Speaker 8: And Jeff said, it's Bob. It's Bob, It's Bob.

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Speaker 1: So now they have a work in hypothesis based on

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Speaker 1: a few old New York articles and a movie with

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Speaker 1: the score of seventeen percent on Rotten Tomatoes.

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Speaker 8: And this becomes sort of this hobby of Jeff and

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Speaker 8: mine because he's convinced Bob off this woman. I like

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Speaker 8: the research, I like the games. It's like a scavenger hunt.

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Speaker 8: To us, it's some stupid thing to occupy us.

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Speaker 1: From then on it became their bit. When Mindy was

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Speaker 1: at work or at an event, Jeff would send her

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Speaker 1: little messages.

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Speaker 8: At that point, there was no instant messaging. We still

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Speaker 8: carried beepers, and Jeff would use the numbers like eight

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Speaker 8: six seven six, and I'd be like staring at my

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Speaker 8: phone writing the letters down like it was a crossword puzzle,

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Speaker 8: and it would be oh Torso.

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Speaker 1: By this point, Mindy had gone deep enough into the

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Speaker 1: morbid curiosity rabbit hole that there was no way out,

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Speaker 1: and before too long she dragged me in two. So

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Speaker 1: we started meeting up at the Mayflower more regularly to

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Speaker 1: talk about Mindy's findings. She even came up with the

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Speaker 1: code name, inspired by her favorite children's book, Harriet the

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Speaker 1: Spy Club, And that's when our investigation really began.

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Speaker 10: Oh after Mindy and I had met up at the

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Speaker 10: Mayflower a few times, my mom got a bit envious,

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Speaker 10: so we started inviting her along.

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Speaker 1: At first, it looked a lot like the lunch with

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Speaker 1: Anna the Vegan. We would talk about Bob and laugh

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Speaker 1: over a plate of spring rolls. Mom would bitch about

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Speaker 1: his lobster cooking skills, and you know, Mindy would bring

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Speaker 1: up the time Bob made me sit on his lap

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Speaker 1: at a medical mixer.

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Speaker 8: That gave me reflux. Do you have a stain on

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Speaker 8: your pants that she needs to cover up, or what's

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Speaker 8: the deal here?

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Speaker 1: And I would talk about his totally irrational anger. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember when Bob to kill your dog because a

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Speaker 1: bit rock?

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Speaker 7: Oh? No.

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Speaker 1: The fact is I didn't think I had actually dated

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Speaker 1: a murderer. It was just nice to trash on a

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Speaker 1: guy who had treated me so badly, to share some

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Speaker 1: laughter and a glass of wine with my girlfriends. But

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Speaker 1: then we started getting other women in Bob's life involved.

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Speaker 1: I paid a visit to Bob's old receptionist and office manager,

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Speaker 1: who had plenty of stories about Bob's anger. After a

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Speaker 1: few meetings, I called up Stephanie Youngblood, Bob's first fiance,

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Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, and asked her to join us, and

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Speaker 1: with her we began to formulate theories about Gail's disappearance.

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Speaker 1: One of them involved Bob's dad, Marvin's apparent access to

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Speaker 1: a dog lab.

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Speaker 8: She had information that he did cardiologic research at a

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Speaker 8: dog lab, which fed into our dismemberment thing, that Marvin

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Speaker 8: was somehow involved, that he brought the body to the

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Speaker 8: dog lab and you know, dissect the body and put

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Speaker 8: it in the duffel bag and then go off to

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Speaker 8: Peterborough and throw him over the bridge.

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Speaker 1: Between our meetings, Mindy tracked on evidence and brought an

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Speaker 1: article she had found in the library, and from searching

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Speaker 1: the early Internet, she started coming up with some crazy theories.

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Speaker 8: We created our own little game of clue. You know,

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Speaker 8: there was blood on the rug. Oh, he wrapped her

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Speaker 8: in the rug. He took the rug. It was a

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Speaker 8: New York apartment. It couldn't be too big of a rug.

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Speaker 8: It's like the amount of mental energy I could have

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Speaker 8: won the Nobel Prize.

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Speaker 1: The more we met, the more I started to believe

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Speaker 1: it was really possible that Bob had something to do

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Speaker 1: with his wife's disappearance. It's not that any one piece

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Speaker 1: of evidence gave us a gotcha moment. I just started

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Speaker 1: to get a feeling that something wasn't right. It turned

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Speaker 1: out that my clubmates all had stories like mine, a

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Speaker 1: Bob flying off the handle, and so many questions about Gail.

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Speaker 1: But the fact is, sitting in the Mayflower restaurant, sharing

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories and promtost we barely knew anything about Bob

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Speaker 1: and Gail's life in New York. We were miles away.

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Speaker 6: At the time. She was murdered. My sister was physically fit,

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Speaker 6: mentally fit, in the middle of the PhD program at

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Speaker 6: a prestigious university. Not go somewhere without.

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Speaker 8: Talking to me.

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Speaker 6: We would fall asleep without hanging up the phone. There's

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Speaker 6: a man named Robert Burmbaum, and he killed her for

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Speaker 6: one very simple reason. And I wish that I knew

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Speaker 6: then what I know now. Yes, Gail educated me and

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Speaker 6: all that have come after her.

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Speaker 1: Elaine Katz, if you're listening, I am sorry it took

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Speaker 1: so long for us to realize your sister's disappearance was

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Speaker 1: not a game. Next time we go to New York.

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Speaker 6: Of not saying that Gail was boy crazy, I was

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Speaker 6: boy crazy. Gail was love crazy.

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Speaker 8: Gail had a way about her that she would attract

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Speaker 8: a lot of attention.

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Speaker 6: Gail was engaged like twice before she graduated high school

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Speaker 6: and Saturday. She was a bit of a free spirit.

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Speaker 8: We were hippies back then, so you know, long haired

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Speaker 8: rock and rollers. Her mother promoted that having a man

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Speaker 8: in your life made you complete, and without that you weren't.

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Speaker 6: And then she met bu whirlwind relationship everything seemed great.

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Speaker 6: I do know now, it wasn't also easy.

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Speaker 1: The Girlfriends is produced by Novel for Ourheart Radio. For

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Speaker 1: more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio. This series is

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Speaker 1: hosted by me Carol Fisher and produced by Anna Sinfield.

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Speaker 1: Our assistant producer is Julian Manyu Gera Patten, and our

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Speaker 1: researcher is Madeline Parr. The editor is Veronica Simmons. Max

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Speaker 1: O'Brien is our executive producer. Our fact checker is Valeria Rocca.

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Speaker 1: Production management from Sharie Houston and Charlotte Wolf. Sound design,

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Speaker 1: mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempsen and Nicholas Alexander. Music

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Speaker 1: supervision by Anna Sinfield. Original music composed by Luisa Gerstein.

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Speaker 1: Story development by Isaac Fisher. Willard Foxton is creative director

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Speaker 1: of Development. Special thanks to Sean Glenn, David Waters, might

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Speaker 1: Lee Raw, Katrina Norvel, David Wasserman, and Beth Anne Mcaluso.

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Speaker 1: We did reach out to Bob and his legal team

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Speaker 1: to ask if he'd liked to comment on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: but we never heard back.

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Speaker 4: Novel