1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Tuesday, October fourteenth. Tonight, two 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: inmates have been executed, making the thirty sixth and thirty 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: seventh to be executed in the United States this year, 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: and one of them maintained his innocence till the end. 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ where we rogues. 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: We've been covering this for several weeks, you could say 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: months now, where the United States seems to be on 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: a bit of a tear, you could argue, but an 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: uptick in the number of executions. Six were scheduled over 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: an eight day stretch, two of them tonight. 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 2: That's pretty remarkable. And this has been a record setting 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: year for Florida. I believe previously the largest number of 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: executions in one year was eight. We're already up to 14 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: number fourteen with more scheduled. 15 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 3: That is remarkable. 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: We're used to Texas, I guess, leading the way. You 17 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: don't even have to look at statistics, and folks just 18 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: understand that Texas usually leads the way, but Florida is 19 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: way out ahead this year. Now, what happened tonight There 20 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: was one execution in Missouri, another one was in Florida. 21 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: I'll start just the latest on Lance Shockley. He is 22 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: the one convicted killer out of Missouri, convicted of murdering 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: a state trooper. He was denied clemency by the governor 24 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: on Monday. Courts have turned down all of his pleas 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: to have new evidence. We'll get into that in a second. 26 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: But he was turned down at every turn, and then 27 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: finally the execution was at six o'clock local time at 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: a correctional facility in Bonetaire, Missouri. 29 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: That's right, And it was on Monday that the Missouri 30 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: governor announced his decision to reject Shockley's plea to stay 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: the execution because he was trying to buy some time 32 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: or his lawyers were saying that they wanted DNA testing 33 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: to take place on I believe six key pieces of evidence. 34 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: It wasn't available at the time of his trial, and 35 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: so they wanted to be able to wait and see. 36 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 2: They had a plea in a lower coat court or 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: a file and a lower coat court that they were 38 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: waiting a ruling on. They wanted to stay the execution 39 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 2: to be able to see if they could do some 40 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: DNA testing to potentially exonerate their client. That, of course 41 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: was denied, and so the execution went forward as planned. 42 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: Well. The other one that took Blake tonight was down 43 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: in Florida. Samuel L excuse me, Samuel Lee Smithers. Samuel 44 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: Lee Smithers is the name seventy two year old man 45 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: convicted of killing two young women. Although his appeals rejected 46 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: as well as attorneys had tried to make an argument 47 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: that this was cruel and unusual even to be executing 48 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: a seventy two year old man. But all those appeals failed. 49 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: He was executed six o'clock eastern tonight at a correctional 50 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: facility near Stark, Florida. So these two cases we did 51 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: get some details. I should mention at least about Smithers 52 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: of what his day looked like. Said he got up 53 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: at six thirty this morning. The correctional facility reported that 54 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: he was He remained a compliant inmate throughout the day, 55 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: but he had no visitors today, no family, no nothing. 56 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: Also no spiritual advisor. They came by, but we got 57 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 1: word at least what his final meal. This is a 58 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: I don't know if there's some just morbid curiosity here, 59 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: but it's always fascinating to hear with folks order for 60 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: their last metal. 61 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: I was just going to say the same thing. 62 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: I don't know why we always care, but we always 63 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 2: report on it, and for whatever reason, I'm always interested 64 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: in hearing what it was. But Smither's last meal was 65 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: fried chicken, fried fish, along with apple pie and ice cream, 66 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 2: and so he kept it simple. But yeah, spent the 67 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: day alone by himself on what. 68 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: Was turned out to be his final day here on 69 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: October fourteenth. Now, these two executions tonight, there's actually another 70 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: one scheduled tomorrow, I believe in Mississippi, and then there's 71 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: one on Friday in Arizona. So two more to go 72 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: this week. Want to go back to SHACKLEI Shockley is 73 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: the one who rose maintained his innocence throughout the details 74 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: though this two thousand and five crime he's not just 75 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: accused of, but he's been convicted of. Some of these 76 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: details are pretty heinous, that's right. 77 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 2: So a jury, by the way, did unanimously convict Shockley 78 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: for the death of Missouri State Highway Patrol Sergeant Carl Graham. 79 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: And the jury convicted Shockley of actually stalking this sergeant, 80 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: actually waiting for him at his home for hours for 81 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: him to show up. And they say the motive behind 82 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 2: his decision to murder this state trooper was that he 83 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 2: was investigating he was investigating a case of manslaughter. 84 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 3: So he was investigating. 85 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: Shockli for manslaughter and in order, according to the evidence 86 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 2: presented at trial, he was he killed the state trooper 87 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 2: to try and basically stop the investigation into manslaughter. 88 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, but the way they say he went about this, 89 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: at least these details. He was at the house waiting 90 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: for hours at this man's house. This wasn't some spur 91 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: of the moment thing as far as these details that 92 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: came out or a fit of rage. They say he stalked, 93 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: He sat there for hours waiting on him to come home, 94 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: and when he got out of his vehicle, shot him 95 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 1: in the back. The guy's down, he goes and shoots 96 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: him in the head. Now, these are the details that 97 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: came out, and this is the guy who claims he's innocent. 98 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: And you could see given the details really of this crime, 99 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: and when it's involving a state trooper, who's involving a 100 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: law enforcement officer, a governor is not going to you 101 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: better be damn sure with your evidence or there's not 102 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: going to be a lot of tolerance for that. 103 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 2: His attorneys say, however, that the prosecution's timeline didn't work out, 104 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 2: that there was no actual forensic evidence tying Shockly to 105 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: the case. There was no eye witness accounts tying him 106 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,559 Speaker 2: to the case. However, some of the details in court 107 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: were the vehicle he driving, I believe he had borrowed 108 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 2: his grandmother's vehicle. 109 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 3: Some of the shell casings, they say, matched at his. 110 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 2: Uncle's house, So there was some actual physical evidence tying 111 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: him to the crime. But his attorneys again were asking 112 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: for some DNA testing to take place, just trying to 113 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: at least have some sort of time or some window 114 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: of time to try and get that evidence or at 115 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: least that evidence looked at. 116 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: And they yes, you could argue, of course you should. 117 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: You want to be sure. They were throwing everything at 118 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: the wall, see if anything would stick here at this 119 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: kind of late hour. Look, we covered another case recently 120 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: where there was a lot of doubt and a lot 121 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: of people were pleading to spare a man's life for 122 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: different reasons. And the other cases even down in Texas. 123 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: Robertson right, there's a stay of execution there because of evidence, 124 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: and there's right people making an argument for innocence. This 125 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: isn't one of. 126 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 2: Those cases that has not been anything. They just want 127 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: an opportunity to try and look at some new possible evidence. 128 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: But yet there was nothing that was significant in any way, 129 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 2: shape or form. 130 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 3: Something that was interesting though about this case. 131 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: Even though the jury unanimously convicted Shockley in the murder 132 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 2: in Graham's murder, they were not unanimous in their decision 133 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: to sentence him to death, So they were actually split 134 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: between life in prison or the death penalty. And this 135 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: is when the judge stepped in and made the decision 136 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 2: and sentenced him to death. And you asked, actually, wait, 137 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 2: there aren't many states where that's actually legal, And you're right. 138 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: Just two states, the state of Missouri and the state 139 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: of Indiana, are the only two states in this country 140 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: where a judge can impose a death sentence when the 141 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 2: jury is split on the decision. 142 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 3: I didn't know that was even possible at all. 143 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: And Shockley just happened to be in one of those 144 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: states where a judge is allowed to do that, and 145 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: a judge did in fact do so. Also, the back 146 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: down to Florida smithers the crime down there. This is 147 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: pretty horrific. A double murder or what were the ages 148 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: of these young women? I came around, I'm I'm sorry 149 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: where I didn't mean to put you on the spot there, 150 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: but young women that this guy brutally murdered and dumped 151 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: their bodies, almost discarded them like trash in a pond 152 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: down in Florida. Now, this is not a case where 153 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: he's hooting and hollering about innocence necessarily in this one. 154 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: But this was a case I guess goes back to 155 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five ninety six. 156 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: So this was actually really disturbing when you start to 157 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 2: read what reportedly took place in what he was convicted of, 158 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 2: but that the property owner where he was staying actually 159 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 2: found him cleaning up a bloodied axe, and he said 160 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: that there had been some animals in the area, but 161 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: she certainly was very suspicious. And when police came to investigate, 162 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: that's when they found drag marks where he had dragged 163 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 2: the bodies of these two young girls and left that. 164 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 2: He said that they said that they were beaten, strangled 165 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: and left in the pond to die. So that is 166 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: just a horrific, horrific scene, but a double homicide. And 167 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 2: when you look and you hear just the details of 168 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: this crime, it is fairly sickening, to say the very least. 169 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: And again they tried all options here as well. They 170 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: tried as much as they could and tried every option 171 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: they had, but exhausted all appeals. So again Smithers also 172 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: executed for his crimes. Now, we said this is a 173 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: thirty six and thirty seventh executions in the country so 174 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: far this year. That is the most we've seen in 175 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: this country since twenty fourteen, I believe. Now that sounds 176 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: like a lot roam, But historically you go back to 177 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: nineties and around that time we're regularly doing forty fifty 178 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: sixty one. You even had ninety eight resecutions I think 179 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine. So it seems like this is 180 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: an uptick here in recent years. But I guess historically speaking, 181 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: we're not necessarily knocking on the door some of those 182 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: bigger numbers. 183 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 3: We're going back to where we used to be. And 184 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 3: maybe it seems like making up for lost time. 185 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: Oh wow, And there might be something to that, folks. Yes, 186 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: this isn't just an accident or fluke thing that's happening 187 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: right now. There are reasons why there has been an 188 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: uptick in the number of executions this year. We will 189 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: explain why when we come back, and yes, it has 190 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: something to do with Trump putting his signature on a 191 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: proclamation or right, folks, welcome back. We continue now on 192 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: this evening of October fourteenth, in which two more inmates 193 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: Death row inmates were executed this evening, one in Missouri, 194 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: one in Florida. The one in Florida a twice a 195 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: double convicted murderer, the other convicted of killing law enforcement 196 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: officer in the state of Missouri. Now Roles, it seemed 197 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: like we have been doing an awful lot of stories 198 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: lately about executions, and yes, there have been more this 199 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: year than in previous years. Six were scheduled in an 200 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: eight day stretch here in the US, or kind of 201 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: right in the middle of that six scheduled. One of them, 202 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: at least we know there was a stay. The one in. 203 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 3: Texas, Texas Robert Robertson. 204 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: So he had been convicted all those years ago for 205 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: the murder of his two year old daughter, Nikki with 206 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 2: shaken baby syndrome science which is now considered junk science. 207 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 2: There have been dozens of exonerations now that we know 208 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: more about how infants can die in ways other than 209 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 2: and that could mimic abuse, and so yes, because of 210 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: those factors, he has finally received after several efforts over 211 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 2: the last ten years by his lawyers, he has received 212 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: a stay of execution so that he can present new 213 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 2: evidence in his. 214 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 3: Case and we'll see where it goes from there. But 215 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: he was supposed to be executed. 216 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: It's on the sixteenth, in two days, yes, so that 217 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: would have been wow. We would have had executions Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, 218 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: Friday of this week in the United States. So yes, 219 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: there's one scheduled four tomorrow on Wednesday night, right, and 220 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: then another scheduled on Friday in Arizona. But the numbers 221 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about, you go back to twenty fourteen, there 222 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: were thirty five executions in the country, but after that, 223 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: leading up to this year twenty fifteen, there were twenty eight. 224 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: Then after that twenty twenty three, twenty five, twenty two, seventeen, eleven, eighteen, 225 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: those were pandemic years, so those were down then, and 226 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: then twenty four executions, then twenty five last year, and 227 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: now here we are at thirty five. And what is 228 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: the number. I think somewhere around ten are still scheduled, 229 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: maybe eight or nine still scheduled for the rest correct 230 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: of this year, so that number is going to go up. 231 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: So why is it happening? I mean, part of this is, 232 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to say a backlog, but there was 233 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: a stretch in which there was a difficult time in 234 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: some of these states and getting the drugs they needed 235 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: correct to actually carry out execution, and there. 236 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 2: Were a lot of concerns about cruel and unusual punishment. 237 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: There were reports of seeing people physically appear to be 238 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 2: or sound as if they were in pain while they 239 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: were being administered these lethal injections, so much so that 240 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 2: a lot of prisoners, upon hearing reports of that on 241 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: death row switched. Many times they can choose how they 242 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 2: want to die, they were choosing, and they have chosen 243 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 2: things like a firing squad or nitrogen gas because they're 244 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 2: so afraid of or concerned about the reports surrounding lethal injections. 245 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: And then then we get reports of one of the 246 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: firing squad things not working exactly right, they missed the 247 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: target correct, and then something with the nitrogen the gas 248 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: that was I don't know what was the report, and 249 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: so something about that one as well. There's always something. 250 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 2: There's always something, and there is human error. I mean, 251 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 2: Florida now is putting out exactly how it's carrying out 252 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 2: its lethal injection. They say they have a three drug 253 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 2: injection protocol. They use a set, a paralytic, and then 254 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 2: the drug that stops the heart. 255 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 3: That's according to the Department of Corrections. 256 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: But they're trying to be transparent about how they go 257 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 2: about of the order in which they use the drugs. Certainly, 258 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: I witnessed an execution. I was twenty three, so what 259 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: was that almost thirty years ago in South Carolina? And 260 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: the man I saw die certainly appeared to be extremely uncomfortable, 261 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 2: to the point where it was very difficult to witness 262 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: and watch. So that was right around the time of 263 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: those reports. And so yeah, we saw some states put 264 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: a moratorium, some states just try to figure out what 265 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: the correct drug protocol is. And then yet people couldn't 266 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: get their hands actual states couldn't get their hands on 267 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 2: the correct to drugs because certain drug companies were stopping 268 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: disseminating them in protests. 269 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: You pointed out just now you brought up a fascinating 270 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: contradiction in a country where we have the death penalty, 271 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: but we want to kill you as comfortably as possible, 272 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: like we constitutionally we can kill you, but it's we 273 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: violated a constitute rights if you are uncomfortable when we do. 274 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: So what a country. I mean, that's just fascinating to think. 275 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: I didn't think about it the way you put it. 276 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: We're fighting and fighting and fighting to make sure we 277 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: kill people. 278 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 2: But we mainly yeah, yes, without pain. I don't know 279 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 2: if it's possible though, I mean, that's the thing. I 280 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 2: do believe there is an attempt to do that, Yeah, 281 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: and to do so, but it still seems like it's 282 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 2: an extremely difficult thing to accomplish. 283 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: So yes, So that has helped, I guess contribute to 284 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: I guess a bit of an uptick the other thing. Yes, 285 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: several states are kind of driving this, and I think 286 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: everybody knows them pretty much. Four states of the thirty 287 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: five executions. If people are listening right now, which four 288 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: states do you think you could probably name them before 289 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: we even answer the question. 290 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: I think that three of them are very obvious. The 291 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: last one might be a little bit. You could go 292 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 2: between a few different states. CA. So I would have 293 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: known South Carolina just because I reported and lived there, 294 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: and that's where I witness my execution. They were known 295 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 2: to be very tough on the death penalty. So yes, 296 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: I think everyone would say Texas and Florida, South Carolina. 297 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 3: I wouldn't have necessarily gone with Alabama. 298 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 2: I would have thought it could have been Georgia, Louisiana, 299 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: another Southern state, but I wouldn't have known Alabama. 300 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: That map is fascinating. They have those maps of where 301 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: the death penalty and it is happening. All the southern 302 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: states are lit up in northeast, nothing like what is 303 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: it in only twenty I'm not gonna get my numbers right, 304 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: but it's twenty seven and twenty three. 305 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: Twenty seven states have the death penalty, twenty three states 306 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 2: do not. Yes, so we're I mean, that's a pretty 307 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: big divide. 308 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: And even in some of the states that do have 309 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: the death penalty, some of the governors sometimes put a 310 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: moratorium on it and it's not being used even though 311 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: it's on the books. But yeah, the other thing that contributed, 312 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: I'd be honest with you, I don't remember. He had 313 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: so many executive orders it was hard to keep her 314 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: the president, but this was one he signed, right after 315 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: getting into office. And I guess the title explains it. 316 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 2: Yes, signed January twentieth, twenty twenty five, that would be 317 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 2: the day he was born into office. It's called restoring 318 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 2: the death penalty and protecting public safety. 319 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: So there's a lot in there, but he's essentially directing 320 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice to enforce, to go after and 321 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: every chance they can the death Penalon also directed them 322 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: to support states in whatever way they can, including making 323 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: sure drugs are available for execution. 324 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: Well, and it's interesting when you see him in this 325 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 2: executive order pushing the capital punishment. He said that he 326 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 2: wants the Attorney General to pursue federal jurisdiction and seek 327 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 2: the death penalty regardless of other factors for every federal 328 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 2: capital crime involving number one, the murder of a law 329 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: enforcement officer. Number two, a capital crime committed by and 330 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: these are their words, an illegal, an alien illegally present 331 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 2: in this country. 332 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 3: Wow. I didn't realize that, did you see that? And then. 333 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 2: Just kept giving example after example with those two stood 334 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: out as to when and how and where the Attorney 335 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 2: General should seek the death penalty. 336 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this was some people took this and ran 337 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: with it. Some people got the message, and maybe the 338 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: Justice Department is being more helpful in helping states get 339 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: execution dates planned and make sure they have the drugs 340 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: their knees. So there are things that are attributing to this. 341 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: But here we are two more inmates execute it on 342 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: this night, and the week is not out. There are 343 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: a couple more still scheduled. 344 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's an execution scheduled in Mississippi tomorrow and one 345 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 2: in Arizona on Friday, And certainly we will continue to 346 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: monitor this. I mean, it's a historic year, and not 347 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 2: in the way that I think a lot of folks 348 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 2: feel great about. Some people might say it's about time. 349 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 2: Others might feel really sickened to buy where we are again, 350 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: I think we've said this before, but we are the 351 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 2: only Western civilized country that still has legal executions, and 352 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: yet our crime rates are among the highest in those 353 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 2: same Western civilized countries. So the deterrent factor of it 354 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: is really up for grabs. And there's the moral debate, obviously, 355 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 2: and there is a financial debate as well. It is 356 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 2: significantly more expensive to execute a prisoner than to maintain 357 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 2: them for life in prison. 358 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's getting more attention. I actually 359 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: don't know if people are having more conversations about the 360 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: death pilding so many more serious things or excuse me, 361 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: pressing things I should say in people's lives. Maybe they 362 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: are more of these conversations going on about who we are. Man, 363 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: we are, we are something this year with these executions, 364 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: seems bizarre that we are just routinely killing folks. 365 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 2: But that's the United States of America right now in 366 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. 367 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: Well, folks, we appreciate you. Just want to hop on 368 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: on this evening, so I hope you're having a good one. 369 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: We always appreciate you listening to us. I'm TJ. Holmes, 370 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: man of my dear Amy Robot. Will talk yo soon.