1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,356 --> 00:00:23,156 Speaker 2: Hey everyone, today we're featuring an episode of one of 3 00:00:23,196 --> 00:00:26,716 Speaker 2: our favorite shows here on the Pushkin Network, Talk Easy, 4 00:00:26,916 --> 00:00:30,796 Speaker 2: hosted by Sam Fragoso. In episode You're about to Hear, 5 00:00:30,996 --> 00:00:35,556 Speaker 2: Sam talks to the renowned music producer and composer Ludwig Gorensen. 6 00:00:36,396 --> 00:00:40,036 Speaker 2: He's a Grammy and Academy Award winning producer and composer 7 00:00:40,076 --> 00:00:43,876 Speaker 2: who scored Ryan Coogler's Black Panther and most recently scored 8 00:00:43,956 --> 00:00:48,796 Speaker 2: Christopher Nolan's epic Oppenheimer. He's also produced records and written 9 00:00:48,836 --> 00:00:55,036 Speaker 2: songs for heim Rihanna Adele, and Donald Glover aka Childish Gambino. 10 00:00:55,996 --> 00:00:59,996 Speaker 2: Here's Sam Fragoso's conversation with Ludwig Gorensen. 11 00:01:14,476 --> 00:01:18,276 Speaker 3: This is Talk Easy. I'm student Forgoso. Welcome to the 12 00:01:18,276 --> 00:01:35,916 Speaker 3: show today. I'm joined by renowned music producer and composer 13 00:01:36,476 --> 00:01:40,676 Speaker 3: Ludwig Gorenson. Over the past decade, he's won three Grammys, 14 00:01:40,716 --> 00:01:45,076 Speaker 3: two Emmys, and one Academy Award for Best Original Score 15 00:01:45,196 --> 00:01:49,636 Speaker 3: for the film Black Panther, directed by Ryan Kugler. In fact, 16 00:01:49,916 --> 00:01:53,956 Speaker 3: he's scored all of Kugler's films dating back to Fruitvale Station. 17 00:01:54,596 --> 00:01:57,756 Speaker 3: When he's not working as a composer. He's producing records 18 00:01:57,796 --> 00:02:00,516 Speaker 3: and writing hit songs for some of the most beloved 19 00:02:00,716 --> 00:02:06,716 Speaker 3: musicians today hi am Rihanna Adele and most consistently, Donald 20 00:02:06,716 --> 00:02:13,076 Speaker 3: Glover aka Childish Gambino. But his latest collaboration might be 21 00:02:13,196 --> 00:02:17,116 Speaker 3: his most ambitious to date, creating the score for Christopher 22 00:02:17,116 --> 00:02:21,436 Speaker 3: Nolan's newest epic, Oppenheimer. The film tells the story of 23 00:02:21,516 --> 00:02:27,356 Speaker 3: the complex and controversial American scientist Jay Robert Oppenheimer as 24 00:02:27,396 --> 00:02:30,716 Speaker 3: he races against the clock to develop the atomic bomb. 25 00:02:31,196 --> 00:02:33,676 Speaker 3: While each of the performances from a cast that includes 26 00:02:33,996 --> 00:02:38,636 Speaker 3: Killian Murphy and Robert Downey Junior are electric, it's Ludwig's 27 00:02:38,636 --> 00:02:42,316 Speaker 3: singular composition that I think both pushes the film forward 28 00:02:42,636 --> 00:02:46,316 Speaker 3: and holds it all together. Nolan himself has called the 29 00:02:46,356 --> 00:02:51,996 Speaker 3: work deeply personal and historically expansive, drawing the audience into 30 00:02:51,996 --> 00:02:55,436 Speaker 3: the emotional dilemmas of the characters while they each grapple 31 00:02:55,516 --> 00:03:00,196 Speaker 3: with the vast geopolitical issues at play. Having seen the 32 00:03:00,236 --> 00:03:04,236 Speaker 3: film twice now, it's Ludwig's score that has most stayed 33 00:03:04,276 --> 00:03:09,796 Speaker 3: with me. It's powerful but not overpowering, tender but not saccharin. 34 00:03:10,156 --> 00:03:12,556 Speaker 3: If you haven't seen the film, you'll hear some of 35 00:03:12,596 --> 00:03:16,436 Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. In this episode, we also discuss 36 00:03:16,516 --> 00:03:20,036 Speaker 3: his musical childhood in Sweden, coming to America in his 37 00:03:20,116 --> 00:03:24,196 Speaker 3: early twenties, the building blocks of his decade long collaborations 38 00:03:24,196 --> 00:03:27,796 Speaker 3: with Koogler and Glover, respectively, and how his work on 39 00:03:27,876 --> 00:03:33,076 Speaker 3: Oppenheimer marks a new chapter in the composer's varied, illustrious career. 40 00:03:34,916 --> 00:03:54,356 Speaker 3: This is my conversation with Ludwig Gorenson. Ludwig A pleasure 41 00:03:54,396 --> 00:03:54,876 Speaker 3: to have here. 42 00:03:55,236 --> 00:03:56,876 Speaker 1: Thank you, Sam. It's great to be here. 43 00:03:57,156 --> 00:04:00,116 Speaker 3: You know, we rarely have someone on the show whose 44 00:04:00,236 --> 00:04:01,876 Speaker 3: hair is longer than mine? 45 00:04:02,796 --> 00:04:03,876 Speaker 1: And how do you feel about that? 46 00:04:04,036 --> 00:04:05,236 Speaker 3: Profoundly insecure. 47 00:04:06,996 --> 00:04:09,636 Speaker 1: I've been thinking a lot about it lately, Sake cut 48 00:04:09,636 --> 00:04:11,796 Speaker 1: it off or should I keep it? But now I've 49 00:04:11,876 --> 00:04:14,116 Speaker 1: passed the stage where I'm like, I don't know too 50 00:04:14,236 --> 00:04:16,796 Speaker 1: much of my personality in it and my identity. 51 00:04:16,956 --> 00:04:19,236 Speaker 3: Are you afraid of like the new person you would 52 00:04:19,276 --> 00:04:20,916 Speaker 3: become if you cut your hair. 53 00:04:21,236 --> 00:04:23,676 Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of that. I'm more afraid of like 54 00:04:23,756 --> 00:04:28,716 Speaker 1: everyone losing interest in me. That's it. 55 00:04:28,796 --> 00:04:33,436 Speaker 3: Ryan Coogler, Donald Glover, Christopher Nolan. They're just in it 56 00:04:33,556 --> 00:04:34,876 Speaker 3: for the hair they don't have. 57 00:04:37,196 --> 00:04:37,996 Speaker 1: That's the secret. 58 00:04:38,556 --> 00:04:41,396 Speaker 3: How has your summer been back home in Sweden. 59 00:04:42,076 --> 00:04:44,756 Speaker 1: It's been incredible. This is the first time and I 60 00:04:44,836 --> 00:04:47,596 Speaker 1: moved to America about fifteen years ago, and this is 61 00:04:47,636 --> 00:04:50,116 Speaker 1: the first time when I'm in Sweden, my home country, 62 00:04:50,116 --> 00:04:52,756 Speaker 1: for more than like a week at a time. I've 63 00:04:52,756 --> 00:04:54,956 Speaker 1: been here for three months now. It's great. I mean, 64 00:04:54,996 --> 00:04:56,996 Speaker 1: the biggest reason why I want to spend more time 65 00:04:57,036 --> 00:05:00,396 Speaker 1: here now specifically because my kids. I have an almost 66 00:05:00,396 --> 00:05:03,156 Speaker 1: four year old and a two year old, and I 67 00:05:03,356 --> 00:05:05,996 Speaker 1: just want them to have the Swedish identity and want 68 00:05:06,036 --> 00:05:08,596 Speaker 1: them to be able to speak the language fluently. And 69 00:05:08,796 --> 00:05:10,396 Speaker 1: so it's it's important. 70 00:05:10,476 --> 00:05:12,876 Speaker 3: Being back home. Has it forced you to kind of 71 00:05:12,916 --> 00:05:16,916 Speaker 3: like reflect on the last fifteen years of working in America. 72 00:05:17,636 --> 00:05:20,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know who I am here yet a 73 00:05:20,836 --> 00:05:24,076 Speaker 1: little bit. I feel like everything around me here has changed, 74 00:05:24,756 --> 00:05:27,516 Speaker 1: and I'm a different person. I never had a professional 75 00:05:27,516 --> 00:05:31,356 Speaker 1: career in Sweden. ALSOLD was a student or the kid, 76 00:05:32,036 --> 00:05:35,076 Speaker 1: so me coming back as someone that has some kind 77 00:05:35,076 --> 00:05:38,036 Speaker 1: of work experience and just trying to kind of navigate 78 00:05:38,276 --> 00:05:40,636 Speaker 1: life here. And I feel like a lot of things 79 00:05:40,676 --> 00:05:43,436 Speaker 1: in Sweden changed too the last fifteen years. So I'm 80 00:05:43,476 --> 00:05:45,876 Speaker 1: still trying to find the balance and trying to find 81 00:05:45,916 --> 00:05:48,756 Speaker 1: myself here. But it's an exciting time to do that. 82 00:05:49,156 --> 00:05:52,836 Speaker 3: Well, it's been an especially exciting summer for you because 83 00:05:53,236 --> 00:05:56,036 Speaker 3: I don't know if you've been reading, but people seem 84 00:05:56,036 --> 00:05:59,356 Speaker 3: to be liking Oppenheimer. It's brought them back to the movies, 85 00:06:00,276 --> 00:06:04,436 Speaker 3: the Barbenheimer phenomenon. I don't know how it happened, but 86 00:06:04,476 --> 00:06:07,836 Speaker 3: I'm glad it did. In the film, there is roughly 87 00:06:07,916 --> 00:06:11,636 Speaker 3: two and a half hours of original music, which some 88 00:06:11,756 --> 00:06:16,596 Speaker 3: publications have reported you made in five days. How does 89 00:06:16,636 --> 00:06:19,716 Speaker 3: someone make something like this in five days? 90 00:06:20,276 --> 00:06:23,476 Speaker 1: Well, I think start off, some of that publication is 91 00:06:23,556 --> 00:06:26,836 Speaker 1: not that correct beautiful to go back, you can't this 92 00:06:26,876 --> 00:06:29,396 Speaker 1: is not puzzible during five days. It was published that 93 00:06:30,116 --> 00:06:33,236 Speaker 1: recorded the music in five days, which is also not 94 00:06:33,356 --> 00:06:36,716 Speaker 1: true because I recorded this for about six months with 95 00:06:36,796 --> 00:06:41,996 Speaker 1: different musicians like string quartet, string octet, soloists. But when 96 00:06:41,996 --> 00:06:44,676 Speaker 1: I had the whole orchestra together in the same room, 97 00:06:44,836 --> 00:06:48,036 Speaker 1: that amount was five days. The recording process, when you 98 00:06:48,196 --> 00:06:50,476 Speaker 1: record the full orchestra together, that's kind of the last 99 00:06:50,556 --> 00:06:53,396 Speaker 1: piece of the puzzle. So that's the last final stage 100 00:06:53,396 --> 00:06:57,156 Speaker 1: of putting together a film score. The hard work is 101 00:06:57,356 --> 00:07:00,996 Speaker 1: often way before that. So normally when you hear the 102 00:07:01,076 --> 00:07:04,636 Speaker 1: orcst are playing the score, that's like the climax of 103 00:07:04,636 --> 00:07:06,596 Speaker 1: the whole process, when you can kind of take a 104 00:07:06,596 --> 00:07:08,756 Speaker 1: step back and just listen to the music, almost like 105 00:07:08,796 --> 00:07:11,116 Speaker 1: seeing or the birth of your child or something. 106 00:07:11,396 --> 00:07:13,316 Speaker 3: Well, if that's the climax, why don't we just go 107 00:07:13,436 --> 00:07:15,236 Speaker 3: back to Act one? Mm? 108 00:07:15,316 --> 00:07:15,396 Speaker 1: Hm. 109 00:07:15,596 --> 00:07:18,196 Speaker 3: You get a call from Christopher Nolan, he says one. 110 00:07:18,836 --> 00:07:22,876 Speaker 1: He says, I finished a script and I'd love for 111 00:07:22,916 --> 00:07:24,676 Speaker 1: you to read it, and can you can buy and 112 00:07:24,716 --> 00:07:27,436 Speaker 1: read it tomorrow or in two days. Chris is kind 113 00:07:27,436 --> 00:07:29,436 Speaker 1: of in a way where he doesn't really talk about 114 00:07:29,436 --> 00:07:32,076 Speaker 1: what he's working on, even though we spend time together 115 00:07:32,116 --> 00:07:34,836 Speaker 1: and we talk and by HESTI were like, oh, think 116 00:07:34,876 --> 00:07:37,636 Speaker 1: about writing this, and this is about this. So it's 117 00:07:37,676 --> 00:07:40,316 Speaker 1: always kind of a call out of the blue. So 118 00:07:40,356 --> 00:07:42,396 Speaker 1: I get the call, I go out to the studio, 119 00:07:42,596 --> 00:07:45,356 Speaker 1: I go into a room, close the door, and sit 120 00:07:45,396 --> 00:07:47,676 Speaker 1: with the script for as much time as I need. 121 00:07:48,196 --> 00:07:51,476 Speaker 1: And this is a pretty heavy script. I had no 122 00:07:51,556 --> 00:07:53,796 Speaker 1: idea what it was going to be about, and so 123 00:07:53,876 --> 00:07:58,596 Speaker 1: I immediately get just sucked into the story. And it's 124 00:07:58,636 --> 00:08:02,356 Speaker 1: like into Oppenheimer and the character and the way that 125 00:08:02,396 --> 00:08:06,036 Speaker 1: the script is written is from Oppenheimer's point of view. 126 00:08:06,076 --> 00:08:09,356 Speaker 1: Everything you're living the world through his eyes. So that 127 00:08:09,476 --> 00:08:13,836 Speaker 1: was something that I was quickly taken by surprise to 128 00:08:13,916 --> 00:08:16,916 Speaker 1: read something like that, and I was completely floored after 129 00:08:16,956 --> 00:08:19,716 Speaker 1: I read that script, and immediately also thought that the 130 00:08:19,796 --> 00:08:21,676 Speaker 1: music needs to kind of do the same thing and 131 00:08:21,716 --> 00:08:23,676 Speaker 1: the same experience I had when reading it. Then music 132 00:08:23,716 --> 00:08:26,916 Speaker 1: needs to get the audience to feel like they're in 133 00:08:26,956 --> 00:08:29,516 Speaker 1: his eyes and feeling everything he is feeling. 134 00:08:30,196 --> 00:08:34,316 Speaker 3: The first step or the only specific instrument he wanted 135 00:08:35,036 --> 00:08:39,116 Speaker 3: was the violin, which, as I understand that you don't 136 00:08:39,236 --> 00:08:43,836 Speaker 3: play the violin, but your wife does when you drive 137 00:08:43,916 --> 00:08:47,116 Speaker 3: back home, what's the pitch you make to her? 138 00:08:49,076 --> 00:08:52,356 Speaker 1: Well, it was kind of after I read the script 139 00:08:52,916 --> 00:08:55,436 Speaker 1: and secrets. Actually it was not until a few days 140 00:08:55,516 --> 00:08:57,436 Speaker 1: later when he went to his house and we talked 141 00:08:57,436 --> 00:09:00,756 Speaker 1: about it, and it was also we talked about the script, 142 00:09:00,796 --> 00:09:04,716 Speaker 1: we listened to music, we talked about movies, and that's 143 00:09:04,756 --> 00:09:07,076 Speaker 1: when he kind of mentioned that I don't really have 144 00:09:07,156 --> 00:09:11,196 Speaker 1: any ideas other than trying to use an experiment with 145 00:09:11,236 --> 00:09:14,436 Speaker 1: the sound of violin. And Chris also knows Serena and 146 00:09:14,476 --> 00:09:17,156 Speaker 1: my wife, so he knows that she's a violinist, and 147 00:09:18,436 --> 00:09:20,916 Speaker 1: we kind of have that advantage to being in the 148 00:09:20,956 --> 00:09:24,636 Speaker 1: studio with her and an experiment and try out some 149 00:09:24,676 --> 00:09:29,276 Speaker 1: different techniques and spend time on just sounds. Was definitely 150 00:09:29,356 --> 00:09:30,396 Speaker 1: a luxury. 151 00:09:30,556 --> 00:09:32,756 Speaker 3: You two working on it before you bring in this 152 00:09:32,836 --> 00:09:35,756 Speaker 3: big orchestra that you're talking about. Do you remember a 153 00:09:35,836 --> 00:09:37,916 Speaker 3: moment where it kind of started to click. 154 00:09:38,516 --> 00:09:41,196 Speaker 1: I remember we've been recording the whole day, just different 155 00:09:41,276 --> 00:09:44,956 Speaker 1: kind of glissandos, just one note, little vibratos and long 156 00:09:45,036 --> 00:09:47,956 Speaker 1: notes and doing glazanos up and down and changing the 157 00:09:47,996 --> 00:09:51,356 Speaker 1: pitch and changing the speed of the vibrato, going from 158 00:09:51,396 --> 00:09:55,876 Speaker 1: something somber and beautiful something horrific within seconds. And then 159 00:09:56,116 --> 00:09:57,756 Speaker 1: I think, after a whole day of recording that we're 160 00:09:57,796 --> 00:09:59,836 Speaker 1: kind of both like, okay, this is this is not 161 00:09:59,916 --> 00:10:04,396 Speaker 1: that fun, Like sitting there for hours wearing noises and 162 00:10:04,436 --> 00:10:06,076 Speaker 1: we're like, okay, well we had to go home to 163 00:10:06,316 --> 00:10:09,676 Speaker 1: the kids. I remember I was like putting down something 164 00:10:09,716 --> 00:10:12,916 Speaker 1: on the piano really quick. It took me like five minutes, 165 00:10:13,356 --> 00:10:14,996 Speaker 1: and I was like, why don't we just record this 166 00:10:15,356 --> 00:10:18,516 Speaker 1: idea over this bassline that I wrote? And she played 167 00:10:18,516 --> 00:10:23,836 Speaker 1: the melody in one take and it was beautiful and 168 00:10:23,956 --> 00:10:28,796 Speaker 1: haunting and intimate and kind of sad and fragile. And 169 00:10:29,156 --> 00:10:32,436 Speaker 1: we recorded that within ten minutes, and I sent it 170 00:10:32,476 --> 00:10:34,836 Speaker 1: immediately over to Chris and then he called me later 171 00:10:34,876 --> 00:10:37,236 Speaker 1: that night and he was like, this is an open 172 00:10:37,276 --> 00:10:38,716 Speaker 1: Emer's theme. I think that's the theme. 173 00:10:39,516 --> 00:10:43,236 Speaker 3: Well, since we're telling this story not exactly in chronological order, 174 00:10:43,636 --> 00:10:46,876 Speaker 3: which is kind of fitting I think for Christopher Nolan work, 175 00:10:47,316 --> 00:10:50,196 Speaker 3: why don't we play the titular track from the film 176 00:10:50,876 --> 00:12:04,076 Speaker 3: Oppenheimer not bad? 177 00:12:06,196 --> 00:12:06,516 Speaker 1: Thank you? 178 00:12:07,076 --> 00:12:09,316 Speaker 3: What were you thinking about hearing that just now? 179 00:12:10,156 --> 00:12:12,796 Speaker 1: It brings back a lot of memories, because you know, 180 00:12:12,996 --> 00:12:15,396 Speaker 1: we're trying to find the tone of the of the movie, 181 00:12:15,436 --> 00:12:18,476 Speaker 1: and I remember that the way I want I wanted 182 00:12:18,476 --> 00:12:21,316 Speaker 1: to try to find it was to really find emotional 183 00:12:21,356 --> 00:12:24,956 Speaker 1: core of the music instead of focusing on kind of 184 00:12:24,996 --> 00:12:27,916 Speaker 1: like the sounds and production. And I always try to 185 00:12:27,956 --> 00:12:30,716 Speaker 1: have a different way to go about how to start 186 00:12:30,716 --> 00:12:33,156 Speaker 1: a project. I always try to do it a different way. 187 00:12:33,156 --> 00:12:34,876 Speaker 1: I always want to feel like I'm doing something for 188 00:12:34,916 --> 00:12:37,436 Speaker 1: the first time. But it was it was just so 189 00:12:37,476 --> 00:12:41,196 Speaker 1: interesting that that probably like after writing two three hours 190 00:12:41,196 --> 00:12:44,676 Speaker 1: of music and trying really different type of compositions and 191 00:12:45,196 --> 00:12:47,876 Speaker 1: this piece that was just kind of one more simple 192 00:12:48,676 --> 00:12:49,916 Speaker 1: was the one that really stuck. 193 00:12:50,396 --> 00:12:53,396 Speaker 3: And then your wife recorded the song that you wrote. 194 00:12:53,596 --> 00:12:55,236 Speaker 1: You know, I wrote it as we were kind of 195 00:12:55,276 --> 00:12:57,876 Speaker 1: packing up the packing up from the pseudo to go home, 196 00:12:57,916 --> 00:13:00,636 Speaker 1: and we're kind of in a rush, and I started 197 00:13:00,636 --> 00:13:05,556 Speaker 1: with that baseline. They form a baseline, and then we 198 00:13:05,636 --> 00:13:07,596 Speaker 1: have the melody on top of it, and the other 199 00:13:07,636 --> 00:13:10,676 Speaker 1: melody that hears is countermelody to the original melody. 200 00:13:11,356 --> 00:13:15,396 Speaker 3: When you're in the process of creating this elaborate score, 201 00:13:15,916 --> 00:13:20,036 Speaker 3: it's fascinating that the thing that landed most, the emotional 202 00:13:20,076 --> 00:13:23,236 Speaker 3: core that you were looking at, it came about when 203 00:13:23,276 --> 00:13:27,236 Speaker 3: the two of you were rushed anxious to get back home, 204 00:13:27,916 --> 00:13:30,876 Speaker 3: thinking about your kids, probably more than you were thinking 205 00:13:30,876 --> 00:13:35,676 Speaker 3: about putting down this track. In that process. Have you 206 00:13:35,716 --> 00:13:40,156 Speaker 3: found that that typically happens like when you're not expecting it, 207 00:13:40,156 --> 00:13:41,396 Speaker 3: It kind of finds. 208 00:13:41,036 --> 00:13:44,556 Speaker 1: You absolutely, especially when you've done you know, you've been 209 00:13:44,556 --> 00:13:47,116 Speaker 1: doing something for a long time. In a day, you've 210 00:13:47,156 --> 00:13:49,396 Speaker 1: been writing, or you've been recording with your band, you've 211 00:13:49,396 --> 00:13:51,836 Speaker 1: done it for ten hours, like the last two or 212 00:13:51,836 --> 00:13:55,396 Speaker 1: three hours, everything's going to start sounding bad. It's like 213 00:13:55,516 --> 00:13:58,876 Speaker 1: your head gets tired and you start to criticize yourself. 214 00:13:58,876 --> 00:14:01,916 Speaker 1: I like, there's all this noise coming into your minds, 215 00:14:01,916 --> 00:14:04,076 Speaker 1: your brain, and like this voice is telling you that 216 00:14:04,236 --> 00:14:07,156 Speaker 1: you know, telling you what telling it Like you're like, oh, 217 00:14:07,196 --> 00:14:08,716 Speaker 1: this is not good, this is not you know, it's 218 00:14:08,756 --> 00:14:10,836 Speaker 1: time to go home with ten rap up. But a 219 00:14:10,876 --> 00:14:14,116 Speaker 1: lot of those times that's also when the magic can happen. 220 00:14:14,716 --> 00:14:19,276 Speaker 3: Well, I want to pinpoint when this like magic started 221 00:14:19,276 --> 00:14:22,236 Speaker 3: happening for you, because, like we said at the top, 222 00:14:22,596 --> 00:14:26,396 Speaker 3: you're back home in Sweden, which is where you came 223 00:14:26,436 --> 00:14:30,276 Speaker 3: of age in a pretty musical household. Your father was 224 00:14:30,316 --> 00:14:33,596 Speaker 3: a guitar teacher, your mother a florist and a pianist. 225 00:14:33,996 --> 00:14:37,156 Speaker 3: Even your sister was musical, she played the violin. You, 226 00:14:37,236 --> 00:14:39,796 Speaker 3: of course, began playing music at the age of seven. 227 00:14:39,996 --> 00:14:42,836 Speaker 3: I think it was yeah, you wrote once, I've been 228 00:14:42,836 --> 00:14:47,396 Speaker 3: making music every day since then and tomorrow. But my 229 00:14:47,596 --> 00:14:50,476 Speaker 3: understanding is that the only reason you started playing the 230 00:14:50,516 --> 00:14:56,036 Speaker 3: guitar was because your parents refused to buy you video games, 231 00:14:56,436 --> 00:14:59,876 Speaker 3: which is what you kind of wanted like every young kid, 232 00:14:59,916 --> 00:15:04,276 Speaker 3: and instead of a gaming console, you received a small, portable, 233 00:15:04,396 --> 00:15:07,356 Speaker 3: four channel cassette tape. Is that how this all began? 234 00:15:07,996 --> 00:15:11,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how my music production and songwriting came about. 235 00:15:11,876 --> 00:15:14,316 Speaker 1: When I was about six or seven, I started sitting 236 00:15:14,316 --> 00:15:17,436 Speaker 1: down with my dad ten fifteen minutes every day, just 237 00:15:17,476 --> 00:15:20,396 Speaker 1: some alone time and just playing some very simple songs 238 00:15:20,796 --> 00:15:23,556 Speaker 1: on guitar. And I didn't have any opinion really about 239 00:15:23,556 --> 00:15:25,876 Speaker 1: it was nice to spend some alone time with my dad. 240 00:15:26,316 --> 00:15:29,036 Speaker 1: But then two years later, I think it was my 241 00:15:29,116 --> 00:15:31,676 Speaker 1: birthday and I was like so excited. I was finally 242 00:15:31,676 --> 00:15:33,836 Speaker 1: it's going to be a Nintendo in the car waiting 243 00:15:33,836 --> 00:15:38,676 Speaker 1: for me, like a secret package, and then I got 244 00:15:38,676 --> 00:15:41,716 Speaker 1: it four track tape recorder instead. We put it up 245 00:15:41,756 --> 00:15:45,716 Speaker 1: in the basement and I never left. And then every 246 00:15:45,756 --> 00:15:47,876 Speaker 1: birthday it was just another thing like a drum machine 247 00:15:48,036 --> 00:15:51,476 Speaker 1: or eight track digital recorder or a new guitar, and 248 00:15:51,516 --> 00:15:55,796 Speaker 1: it's always something musical that replaced those urges of video 249 00:15:55,796 --> 00:15:56,716 Speaker 1: game consoles. 250 00:15:56,996 --> 00:16:00,476 Speaker 3: Was there a particular day and a particular song by 251 00:16:00,636 --> 00:16:04,476 Speaker 3: an American metal band that kind of fortified your desire 252 00:16:04,796 --> 00:16:06,636 Speaker 3: to make music? It was. 253 00:16:06,636 --> 00:16:08,836 Speaker 1: Actually the way it came about was that my dad, 254 00:16:08,956 --> 00:16:11,436 Speaker 1: he's a guitar teacher. So when he started out as 255 00:16:11,476 --> 00:16:13,876 Speaker 1: a classical guitar teacher, and then you start playing blues 256 00:16:13,996 --> 00:16:16,636 Speaker 1: and they love, you know, blues and soul. And then 257 00:16:16,836 --> 00:16:20,436 Speaker 1: one day he's guitar students gave him a Metallica album 258 00:16:20,476 --> 00:16:22,396 Speaker 1: and asked him if you could teach them how to 259 00:16:22,436 --> 00:16:24,836 Speaker 1: play these songs, and he was like, no way, like 260 00:16:24,836 --> 00:16:27,516 Speaker 1: I hate this music. And then but he took it 261 00:16:27,596 --> 00:16:29,716 Speaker 1: home and he wanted to be a good teacher. So 262 00:16:29,716 --> 00:16:31,076 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I'm going to learn this so 263 00:16:31,076 --> 00:16:33,596 Speaker 1: I could teach him how to play this. I remember 264 00:16:33,676 --> 00:16:36,836 Speaker 1: being a kid and just hearing like a crazy noise 265 00:16:36,836 --> 00:16:39,396 Speaker 1: from the basement where the studio was, and I go 266 00:16:39,476 --> 00:16:41,956 Speaker 1: downstairs and I open the door and I see my 267 00:16:42,076 --> 00:16:46,796 Speaker 1: dad like head bang Metallica play in semin and like 268 00:16:46,836 --> 00:16:49,996 Speaker 1: my mind is exploded. Its like what is this sound? Is? 269 00:16:50,116 --> 00:16:51,876 Speaker 1: What is this music? How can I play it? 270 00:16:52,036 --> 00:16:53,756 Speaker 3: Had you ever seen him headbang before? 271 00:16:54,196 --> 00:16:57,316 Speaker 1: No? I never seen him like that, like unleashed. And 272 00:16:57,636 --> 00:16:59,396 Speaker 1: since I already knew how to play a little guitar, 273 00:16:59,636 --> 00:17:02,276 Speaker 1: I could pretty quickly like pick it up and start 274 00:17:02,276 --> 00:17:04,796 Speaker 1: playing the riffs and stuff and then the solo. So 275 00:17:04,876 --> 00:17:07,116 Speaker 1: obviously I had to practice a lot. But then it 276 00:17:07,196 --> 00:17:08,876 Speaker 1: became a thing like we got me and my dad 277 00:17:08,916 --> 00:17:11,716 Speaker 1: went see them live. We started playing the songs together. 278 00:17:11,916 --> 00:17:14,716 Speaker 1: I started a band. I was all in from that moment. 279 00:17:14,956 --> 00:17:18,316 Speaker 3: Were your parents like excited that this was your obsession 280 00:17:18,716 --> 00:17:20,836 Speaker 3: that you would like stay in the basement and just 281 00:17:20,876 --> 00:17:21,676 Speaker 3: like stay in it? 282 00:17:22,196 --> 00:17:25,156 Speaker 1: Yeah, there were my They were my biggest fans and supporders. 283 00:17:25,316 --> 00:17:27,996 Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking back at it now, like I started 284 00:17:27,996 --> 00:17:30,956 Speaker 1: a band and my dad was He arranged for us 285 00:17:30,956 --> 00:17:33,396 Speaker 1: to play on the on the square of our hometown. 286 00:17:33,796 --> 00:17:36,316 Speaker 1: He set up our instruments, he drove us around, he 287 00:17:36,396 --> 00:17:38,836 Speaker 1: opened up the rehearsal space, you know, all the time. 288 00:17:39,476 --> 00:17:41,156 Speaker 1: I just now, I just at that time took for 289 00:17:41,196 --> 00:17:43,836 Speaker 1: granted like that's what you know parents do. But now 290 00:17:43,956 --> 00:17:47,476 Speaker 1: thinking back at it, just every weekend, how much he 291 00:17:47,556 --> 00:17:50,036 Speaker 1: kind of spend his time and energy on that. That's 292 00:17:50,076 --> 00:17:50,996 Speaker 1: pretty remarkable. 293 00:17:51,316 --> 00:17:53,236 Speaker 3: When you're in high school and fall in love with 294 00:17:53,236 --> 00:17:57,596 Speaker 3: like American rock and roll, when did you discover the 295 00:17:57,676 --> 00:17:59,916 Speaker 3: possibilities of film scoring. 296 00:18:00,316 --> 00:18:02,716 Speaker 1: I think a big part of that was like Napster, 297 00:18:03,036 --> 00:18:05,716 Speaker 1: and it was a program called DC plus plus. 298 00:18:05,836 --> 00:18:07,076 Speaker 3: I don't remember that one. 299 00:18:06,956 --> 00:18:09,876 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, he allowed me to if I found a 300 00:18:09,916 --> 00:18:12,276 Speaker 1: song that I liked on Napster, I could click on 301 00:18:12,316 --> 00:18:14,756 Speaker 1: the user and then I could go into that user's 302 00:18:14,796 --> 00:18:17,676 Speaker 1: like sound libraries or music libraries, and I could just 303 00:18:17,756 --> 00:18:20,156 Speaker 1: pull that user his or hers whole library to my 304 00:18:20,196 --> 00:18:23,676 Speaker 1: computer and find music that like I had never heard of. 305 00:18:23,876 --> 00:18:26,236 Speaker 1: Some of that music was like like Boston and music, 306 00:18:26,316 --> 00:18:28,956 Speaker 1: some of it was Turkish music from different parts of 307 00:18:29,036 --> 00:18:31,916 Speaker 1: the world, and some of it was also film scores, 308 00:18:31,996 --> 00:18:33,996 Speaker 1: and that was really fun for me, like listening over 309 00:18:34,036 --> 00:18:35,836 Speaker 1: and over to like the mc ivory theme song on 310 00:18:36,236 --> 00:18:39,956 Speaker 1: the Turtles theme songs. And I think the big part 311 00:18:39,956 --> 00:18:42,916 Speaker 1: of it also was like technology, Like I liked being 312 00:18:42,956 --> 00:18:45,516 Speaker 1: on the computer and finding this type of music, and 313 00:18:45,556 --> 00:18:49,156 Speaker 1: I also had program in my computer call like Impulse Tracker. 314 00:18:49,676 --> 00:18:52,436 Speaker 1: It was like the first type of sequence there where 315 00:18:52,756 --> 00:18:54,756 Speaker 1: you don't have like an arrange window. You have is 316 00:18:54,756 --> 00:18:58,236 Speaker 1: everything's just zeros and ones and numbers. So basically when 317 00:18:58,236 --> 00:19:01,076 Speaker 1: we play the song, it just looks like a like 318 00:19:01,116 --> 00:19:04,156 Speaker 1: a crazy like screen of just numbers up and down. 319 00:19:04,476 --> 00:19:07,196 Speaker 1: And that's how I made my first kind of songs 320 00:19:07,196 --> 00:19:10,236 Speaker 1: on the computer. And then obviously I went to qbas 321 00:19:10,276 --> 00:19:12,756 Speaker 1: and logic and all that stuff, But being part of 322 00:19:12,916 --> 00:19:15,796 Speaker 1: the thing that excited me was also how the production 323 00:19:15,916 --> 00:19:17,716 Speaker 1: of it and using technology. 324 00:19:17,836 --> 00:19:19,476 Speaker 3: Have you listened back to any of those. 325 00:19:19,676 --> 00:19:22,436 Speaker 1: No, and I don't want, I don't feel like what. 326 00:19:24,436 --> 00:19:28,236 Speaker 3: Your debut as an orchestral composer came at the age 327 00:19:28,276 --> 00:19:33,436 Speaker 3: of seventeen. It was called five Minutes to Christmas. The 328 00:19:33,556 --> 00:19:36,956 Speaker 3: night that that was performed. What happened. 329 00:19:37,596 --> 00:19:40,796 Speaker 1: It was kind of out of body experience because you 330 00:19:40,796 --> 00:19:43,836 Speaker 1: were seventeen years old. The only time you've had your 331 00:19:43,916 --> 00:19:46,756 Speaker 1: music performed is with your band with three or four people. 332 00:19:47,516 --> 00:19:51,476 Speaker 1: And then the fact that like sitting and writing orchestral scores, 333 00:19:51,716 --> 00:19:53,236 Speaker 1: we had an opportunity. We had a great school, so 334 00:19:53,236 --> 00:19:55,636 Speaker 1: I had an opportunity to write for the symphony orchestra, 335 00:19:55,676 --> 00:19:57,316 Speaker 1: and I was one of the few chosen from the 336 00:19:57,316 --> 00:19:59,796 Speaker 1: class to do it. And since we had such a 337 00:19:59,836 --> 00:20:02,236 Speaker 1: good education, I already knew how to write it, you know, 338 00:20:02,276 --> 00:20:05,196 Speaker 1: by hand, and write down the sheet music by hand. 339 00:20:05,876 --> 00:20:07,676 Speaker 1: And I was sitting in by the piano in our 340 00:20:07,716 --> 00:20:10,156 Speaker 1: living room and just writing that the whole summer. It 341 00:20:10,236 --> 00:20:12,556 Speaker 1: was very inspired by Star Wars and night ran before 342 00:20:12,636 --> 00:20:15,356 Speaker 1: Christmas and had like Slabeles in it, and kind of 343 00:20:15,356 --> 00:20:17,796 Speaker 1: a Darth Vader theme in it. Not that great, but 344 00:20:18,316 --> 00:20:21,956 Speaker 1: you could clearly hear what the inspiration was. And then yeah, 345 00:20:21,996 --> 00:20:24,956 Speaker 1: I was opening We opened it during a school concert 346 00:20:25,156 --> 00:20:27,436 Speaker 1: and there was the whole concert hall was full of 347 00:20:27,436 --> 00:20:31,156 Speaker 1: people and they played my music and it was really 348 00:20:31,236 --> 00:20:34,756 Speaker 1: wild because everyone loved it so much, and like they 349 00:20:34,796 --> 00:20:38,076 Speaker 1: played it on the Swedish radio and it really made 350 00:20:38,116 --> 00:20:41,356 Speaker 1: me feel special. But the big take up and that 351 00:20:41,556 --> 00:20:44,996 Speaker 1: was to hearing your music being performed by seventy people 352 00:20:45,476 --> 00:20:48,356 Speaker 1: in a concert hall, to live audience, and just the 353 00:20:48,556 --> 00:20:51,236 Speaker 1: feeling of that. It was like, how I just asked 354 00:20:51,236 --> 00:20:52,996 Speaker 1: myself over and over again, how can I do this 355 00:20:53,436 --> 00:20:54,756 Speaker 1: for the rest of my life? And how can I 356 00:20:54,796 --> 00:20:56,676 Speaker 1: be able to do this as a. 357 00:20:56,676 --> 00:21:26,956 Speaker 3: Job After the break More from Ludvig Gorenson coming back, 358 00:21:27,556 --> 00:21:32,436 Speaker 3: we were talking about the five Minutes before Christmas orchestral 359 00:21:32,516 --> 00:21:36,436 Speaker 3: piece that you put together. You then studied jazz improvisation 360 00:21:36,596 --> 00:21:41,116 Speaker 3: at the Royal College School of Music before eventually moving 361 00:21:41,196 --> 00:21:44,076 Speaker 3: to the US at the age of twenty two in 362 00:21:44,116 --> 00:21:48,396 Speaker 3: pursuit of your masters at USC here in Los Angeles. 363 00:21:49,076 --> 00:21:51,196 Speaker 3: This I think was in the fall of two thousand 364 00:21:51,236 --> 00:21:55,396 Speaker 3: and seven, a period that you once described as a 365 00:21:55,596 --> 00:21:59,796 Speaker 3: very difficult time in my life. What did that look like? 366 00:22:02,036 --> 00:22:07,316 Speaker 1: Just crying every night and missing my life that I 367 00:22:07,356 --> 00:22:10,116 Speaker 1: had in Sweden and very lonely. 368 00:22:10,196 --> 00:22:12,236 Speaker 3: That is the opening of Oppenheimer. 369 00:22:12,476 --> 00:22:15,236 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, it is. I had those times. And 370 00:22:15,676 --> 00:22:17,756 Speaker 1: then the funny thing is that I had that already 371 00:22:17,836 --> 00:22:20,156 Speaker 1: happened once in my life, Like when I was fifteen, 372 00:22:20,556 --> 00:22:22,356 Speaker 1: I moved to Stockholm. I lived in a smaller city 373 00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:25,356 Speaker 1: and I moved to Stockholm. I started like a music high school, 374 00:22:25,876 --> 00:22:28,516 Speaker 1: and then at that time I met, I moved home again. 375 00:22:28,556 --> 00:22:30,236 Speaker 1: So I gave up and like I moved back home. 376 00:22:30,276 --> 00:22:32,716 Speaker 1: And then I always kind of like regretted that decision 377 00:22:32,956 --> 00:22:34,596 Speaker 1: a little bit. I didn't want to do the same 378 00:22:34,596 --> 00:22:35,116 Speaker 1: thing twice. 379 00:22:35,316 --> 00:22:36,316 Speaker 3: You couldn't give up again. 380 00:22:36,716 --> 00:22:38,836 Speaker 1: I couldn't do that. I knew how much I would 381 00:22:38,916 --> 00:22:42,196 Speaker 1: regret it afterwards. I feel like la is probably like 382 00:22:42,356 --> 00:22:45,196 Speaker 1: one of the loneliest city in the world. Everything is 383 00:22:45,276 --> 00:22:47,396 Speaker 1: just so difficult to know where to go. You have 384 00:22:47,476 --> 00:22:49,836 Speaker 1: to plan everything if you don't have a car. But 385 00:22:49,956 --> 00:22:52,276 Speaker 1: the school, I mean, the school was great and it 386 00:22:52,316 --> 00:22:55,596 Speaker 1: was competitive. The professors and that's why I wanted to 387 00:22:55,636 --> 00:22:58,756 Speaker 1: go there. The professors are all professional, and I think 388 00:22:58,796 --> 00:23:01,996 Speaker 1: one of the things that was difficult was that the homesickness, 389 00:23:02,076 --> 00:23:04,876 Speaker 1: Like I didn't understand what that was either, Like I 390 00:23:04,876 --> 00:23:07,636 Speaker 1: didn't know why I was having all those feelings. I 391 00:23:07,716 --> 00:23:10,436 Speaker 1: was just confused, why am I feel like this? I 392 00:23:10,476 --> 00:23:13,156 Speaker 1: could navigate it and not being in control of that, 393 00:23:13,236 --> 00:23:13,956 Speaker 1: and that. 394 00:23:13,916 --> 00:23:15,516 Speaker 3: Was very scary. What do you mean scary? 395 00:23:15,836 --> 00:23:20,076 Speaker 1: Just not just it's almost something like a jealousy, if 396 00:23:20,156 --> 00:23:22,596 Speaker 1: you know, jealousy is like a feeling you can control, 397 00:23:22,956 --> 00:23:25,196 Speaker 1: at least for me, I remember the times when I 398 00:23:25,236 --> 00:23:28,356 Speaker 1: had those feelings that are extremely jealous. Through something like that, 399 00:23:28,396 --> 00:23:30,436 Speaker 1: it's just eats that you or it comes like a 400 00:23:30,476 --> 00:23:33,076 Speaker 1: big hole in your stomach, and that's what it was 401 00:23:33,076 --> 00:23:35,116 Speaker 1: like at one night. It can be that can have 402 00:23:35,156 --> 00:23:36,556 Speaker 1: the best time of life, and then like all of 403 00:23:36,556 --> 00:23:38,956 Speaker 1: a sudden and thirty minutes later, it can be just 404 00:23:39,076 --> 00:23:42,276 Speaker 1: completely crushing and not knowing why. 405 00:23:42,676 --> 00:23:44,836 Speaker 3: When do you think you started to get some control 406 00:23:44,916 --> 00:23:49,876 Speaker 3: over that? You're like never still here. 407 00:23:52,236 --> 00:23:56,556 Speaker 1: No, But but it's not until recently where I'm like 408 00:23:56,996 --> 00:24:00,956 Speaker 1: kind of starting to understand how those feelings came to 409 00:24:00,956 --> 00:24:04,596 Speaker 1: be and what that was all about, and how I 410 00:24:04,636 --> 00:24:08,036 Speaker 1: can try to give my kids some kind of stability 411 00:24:08,076 --> 00:24:09,876 Speaker 1: that so they don't have to going to go through that. 412 00:24:10,116 --> 00:24:12,716 Speaker 3: It does sound like I'd say, you really of all 413 00:24:12,716 --> 00:24:15,716 Speaker 3: the things we've talked about, it does seem like the 414 00:24:15,756 --> 00:24:18,076 Speaker 3: thing that's most on your mind right now? 415 00:24:18,276 --> 00:24:21,996 Speaker 1: Oh of course, Yeah, definitely want to try to understand 416 00:24:21,996 --> 00:24:24,876 Speaker 1: myself as good as I can for my kid's sake. 417 00:24:25,676 --> 00:24:28,156 Speaker 3: In that period when you're in your mid twenties, did 418 00:24:28,876 --> 00:24:32,556 Speaker 3: meeting and beginning to work with Ryan Kugler and then 419 00:24:32,596 --> 00:24:37,196 Speaker 3: Donald Glover did that help you understand yourself in that moment? 420 00:24:37,676 --> 00:24:40,876 Speaker 1: I think that was maybe one of the things. I 421 00:24:41,156 --> 00:24:42,876 Speaker 1: don't know if we had that in common, but like 422 00:24:43,396 --> 00:24:44,996 Speaker 1: one of the things that Ryan and I had a 423 00:24:45,036 --> 00:24:47,956 Speaker 1: common was definitely like feeling like we're far away from 424 00:24:47,996 --> 00:24:50,236 Speaker 1: our families and having a hard time. 425 00:24:50,396 --> 00:24:51,196 Speaker 3: He's from Oakland. 426 00:24:51,356 --> 00:24:53,516 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's from Oakland, and I was like, well, you're 427 00:24:53,556 --> 00:24:55,556 Speaker 1: just two hours from home. It was like five hours 428 00:24:55,556 --> 00:24:58,036 Speaker 1: from home, like you can just but that's not what 429 00:24:58,476 --> 00:25:01,316 Speaker 1: it was about. It was like your community was everything 430 00:25:01,356 --> 00:25:03,876 Speaker 1: that's familiar to you and leaving that for something new 431 00:25:04,516 --> 00:25:06,516 Speaker 1: and how difficult that is, and then we could talk 432 00:25:06,556 --> 00:25:09,396 Speaker 1: about that special and then yeah, and then to go 433 00:25:09,516 --> 00:25:12,476 Speaker 1: back to our teacher, Kenny Hall. Kenny Hall was an 434 00:25:12,516 --> 00:25:16,716 Speaker 1: incredible teacher professor at UC. He was a music editor 435 00:25:17,316 --> 00:25:20,116 Speaker 1: who worked with John Williams on ET and Jerry Goldsmith 436 00:25:20,116 --> 00:25:21,836 Speaker 1: and a bunch of best movies. And he was the 437 00:25:21,836 --> 00:25:24,716 Speaker 1: only teacher at school that had a class for both 438 00:25:25,116 --> 00:25:28,956 Speaker 1: composers and directors in the same class, which is unusual, 439 00:25:29,156 --> 00:25:34,156 Speaker 1: Which is very unusual, but should be obvious because music is, 440 00:25:34,196 --> 00:25:36,756 Speaker 1: I mean, music is one of the most important parts 441 00:25:36,756 --> 00:25:40,836 Speaker 1: of film. And to get some direction from a professor 442 00:25:40,876 --> 00:25:43,636 Speaker 1: for the directors to how to talk about music and 443 00:25:43,716 --> 00:25:45,916 Speaker 1: how to approach that, how to talk to the composers, 444 00:25:46,436 --> 00:25:50,076 Speaker 1: I think was incredibly helpful. And to have a class 445 00:25:50,076 --> 00:25:53,036 Speaker 1: where we can discuss so we can also understand how 446 00:25:53,076 --> 00:25:55,956 Speaker 1: the directors talk about music and how they think about music. 447 00:25:56,076 --> 00:25:58,476 Speaker 1: Because we're all students, We're like, oh, this is you know, 448 00:25:58,556 --> 00:26:00,676 Speaker 1: music is the most important part of the film, Like 449 00:26:00,676 --> 00:26:02,956 Speaker 1: it should be the loudest, you know, the part of 450 00:26:02,996 --> 00:26:05,276 Speaker 1: the whole student film you're doing, and take out the 451 00:26:05,356 --> 00:26:08,676 Speaker 1: sound effects and the dialogue and don't give me any notes. 452 00:26:08,876 --> 00:26:11,076 Speaker 1: That kind of how you approach it from the beginning. 453 00:26:11,196 --> 00:26:12,996 Speaker 3: Was that your policy back then? No notes? 454 00:26:14,436 --> 00:26:18,836 Speaker 1: No, I was, I was pretty open, but I definitely 455 00:26:18,836 --> 00:26:22,116 Speaker 1: remember before I started USC that had like this romantic 456 00:26:22,156 --> 00:26:25,596 Speaker 1: image of the film composer getting getting the film, having 457 00:26:25,636 --> 00:26:29,156 Speaker 1: several months to himself at some kind of lodge up 458 00:26:29,196 --> 00:26:31,436 Speaker 1: in the mountains, and just being able to write the 459 00:26:31,476 --> 00:26:34,196 Speaker 1: whole film score by himself, and then taking the orchestra 460 00:26:34,196 --> 00:26:36,516 Speaker 1: and getting performed and magically it's in the movie. 461 00:26:36,596 --> 00:26:39,276 Speaker 3: You had to settle for Los Phillies and Silver like 462 00:26:39,316 --> 00:26:46,676 Speaker 3: I guess, you know, as your romantic hopes were kind 463 00:26:46,676 --> 00:26:51,356 Speaker 3: of slowly dashed by the real process of making and 464 00:26:51,396 --> 00:26:55,276 Speaker 3: creating these scores. You did like dozens of scores for 465 00:26:55,356 --> 00:27:00,956 Speaker 3: students at USC What stood out about Ryan and his work. 466 00:27:01,156 --> 00:27:03,076 Speaker 1: First of all, I was friends a little bit with 467 00:27:03,156 --> 00:27:05,396 Speaker 1: Ryan before he did a student film, so we had 468 00:27:05,436 --> 00:27:07,556 Speaker 1: we already had a little bit of a relationship before 469 00:27:07,556 --> 00:27:09,756 Speaker 1: he asked me to score his film. But also like 470 00:27:10,276 --> 00:27:13,156 Speaker 1: his way of you know, although it was this student film, 471 00:27:13,236 --> 00:27:15,916 Speaker 1: it was a student film called Locks for his first project, 472 00:27:15,996 --> 00:27:18,316 Speaker 1: and at that time the student film, he didn't have 473 00:27:18,356 --> 00:27:21,356 Speaker 1: any dialogue, so it was just music and sound effects. 474 00:27:22,236 --> 00:27:25,796 Speaker 1: And the movie is beautiful. You see this this guy 475 00:27:25,836 --> 00:27:29,836 Speaker 1: in Oakland with long locks, like long dreads, wandering around 476 00:27:29,876 --> 00:27:34,076 Speaker 1: the streets. You see some gang members getting handcuffed by 477 00:27:34,076 --> 00:27:37,076 Speaker 1: the police. He goes through the neighborhood, he sees like 478 00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:40,636 Speaker 1: other kind of rough things. You and You're like, what's 479 00:27:40,636 --> 00:27:42,676 Speaker 1: going on? Where is this story going to go? And 480 00:27:42,716 --> 00:27:44,956 Speaker 1: then he goes into the barbershop and he gets his 481 00:27:45,036 --> 00:27:47,156 Speaker 1: hair cut off. They sweep it up and they put 482 00:27:47,156 --> 00:27:50,396 Speaker 1: it in a plastic bag, and then he walks on 483 00:27:50,436 --> 00:27:53,356 Speaker 1: his way home and then he enters his apartment and 484 00:27:53,716 --> 00:27:55,756 Speaker 1: he opens a bedroom door and you see his little 485 00:27:55,756 --> 00:27:58,436 Speaker 1: sister sitting there who has cancer, and it doesn't have 486 00:27:58,476 --> 00:28:03,836 Speaker 1: any hair. And that's the short film. And I wrote 487 00:28:03,836 --> 00:28:06,636 Speaker 1: some music for it. And at that time, I was 488 00:28:06,676 --> 00:28:09,636 Speaker 1: living in a I was living on twenty eight Street, 489 00:28:09,676 --> 00:28:12,396 Speaker 1: which in LA is like fraternity Street. I didn't know 490 00:28:12,396 --> 00:28:14,676 Speaker 1: what fraternity, so Storties was before I moved, and I 491 00:28:14,716 --> 00:28:16,796 Speaker 1: wasn't part of the fraternity, like they had gone thrown out, 492 00:28:17,316 --> 00:28:19,956 Speaker 1: so it was only for grad students. But I was 493 00:28:19,996 --> 00:28:23,116 Speaker 1: sitting there in that little little room trying to write music, 494 00:28:23,116 --> 00:28:25,196 Speaker 1: and it was like crazy parties going on every night 495 00:28:25,276 --> 00:28:27,756 Speaker 1: on the street, you know, the all the dudes look 496 00:28:27,796 --> 00:28:30,116 Speaker 1: the same and drinking from the red cups. And I really, 497 00:28:30,156 --> 00:28:32,196 Speaker 1: I literally felt like I was in an American pie movie. 498 00:28:32,836 --> 00:28:35,516 Speaker 1: And then Ryan comes in and we sit down and 499 00:28:35,556 --> 00:28:37,156 Speaker 1: I have headphones and I give it to him and 500 00:28:37,156 --> 00:28:38,596 Speaker 1: it's like Oh my god, is this guitar? 501 00:28:38,716 --> 00:28:38,836 Speaker 3: Oh? 502 00:28:38,876 --> 00:28:42,236 Speaker 1: What's this instrument? And it was just so excited and 503 00:28:42,316 --> 00:28:44,916 Speaker 1: having that reaction and like learning about the instruments and 504 00:28:44,916 --> 00:28:47,236 Speaker 1: we talk about the you know, the techniques that we 505 00:28:47,316 --> 00:28:50,476 Speaker 1: played and the take and that was the that was 506 00:28:50,516 --> 00:28:52,956 Speaker 1: the beginning of our working relationships. And that's still how 507 00:28:52,996 --> 00:28:54,196 Speaker 1: it still feels like that. 508 00:28:55,516 --> 00:28:59,556 Speaker 3: Why don't we take a look at that first collaboration 509 00:28:59,676 --> 00:29:01,836 Speaker 3: for a moment so people can get a sense of 510 00:29:02,476 --> 00:29:07,436 Speaker 3: what it sounded like. This is Locks directed by Ryan Coogler. 511 00:29:11,116 --> 00:29:41,636 Speaker 3: H what do you think seeing that. 512 00:29:43,196 --> 00:29:46,916 Speaker 1: It sounds so very early in my career, you know, 513 00:29:47,236 --> 00:29:49,396 Speaker 1: like all your teacher at the time, like us, you know, 514 00:29:49,596 --> 00:29:51,396 Speaker 1: you have to find your own sound and all this 515 00:29:51,836 --> 00:29:53,356 Speaker 1: what are you talking like? What are you talking about? 516 00:29:54,476 --> 00:29:56,236 Speaker 1: How do you find your own sound? What is that? 517 00:29:57,036 --> 00:29:59,916 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that that was my own sound? 518 00:29:59,956 --> 00:30:06,156 Speaker 1: But you can definitely hear some an interesting balance between 519 00:30:07,076 --> 00:30:10,116 Speaker 1: like melancholy and happiness. 520 00:30:10,316 --> 00:30:12,276 Speaker 3: You see, almost skeptical to say. 521 00:30:12,116 --> 00:30:16,396 Speaker 1: The word, yeah, yeah, it's not the word you wanted 522 00:30:16,476 --> 00:30:20,316 Speaker 1: you to describe your music, maybe, but maybe it is. 523 00:30:20,556 --> 00:30:22,836 Speaker 1: Of course it should make people happy, but it can 524 00:30:22,876 --> 00:30:24,876 Speaker 1: be melancholic and make you happy. In that way. 525 00:30:25,076 --> 00:30:28,756 Speaker 3: I think it's an amalgamation of both. But the idea 526 00:30:28,756 --> 00:30:32,036 Speaker 3: of finding your own voice that is something we all 527 00:30:32,476 --> 00:30:37,796 Speaker 3: have to try to find. Was that a challenge for you. 528 00:30:37,116 --> 00:30:39,876 Speaker 1: No, I mean I think for a lot of people, 529 00:30:40,596 --> 00:30:42,356 Speaker 1: the way that you think about when you have to 530 00:30:42,396 --> 00:30:45,316 Speaker 1: find your own voice is like, Okay, I need to 531 00:30:45,356 --> 00:30:48,396 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time by myself in a room 532 00:30:48,476 --> 00:30:51,956 Speaker 1: and find my own voice. Well, at least for me, 533 00:30:52,036 --> 00:30:54,156 Speaker 1: the way that I did it was the complete opposite. 534 00:30:54,316 --> 00:30:57,356 Speaker 1: It was opening doors to other rooms with other people 535 00:30:57,876 --> 00:31:00,716 Speaker 1: and talking to them or jamming with them and learn 536 00:31:00,836 --> 00:31:05,156 Speaker 1: what they do, and like being interested and you know, 537 00:31:05,396 --> 00:31:08,636 Speaker 1: wanting to discover and have a musical exchange with people 538 00:31:08,676 --> 00:31:12,676 Speaker 1: that came from completely different backgrounds or cultures or playing 539 00:31:12,716 --> 00:31:15,996 Speaker 1: different genres and to see if we can do things together. 540 00:31:16,276 --> 00:31:17,796 Speaker 1: And looking back at it now, I think that was 541 00:31:18,596 --> 00:31:21,436 Speaker 1: kind of what really shaped me to become who I am. 542 00:31:22,356 --> 00:31:25,196 Speaker 3: When you started working with Donald Glover, this was like 543 00:31:25,236 --> 00:31:30,516 Speaker 3: before he became Childish Gambino. You were scoring community at 544 00:31:30,516 --> 00:31:35,316 Speaker 3: the time. Was it around then that you developed this 545 00:31:35,436 --> 00:31:39,316 Speaker 3: approach where you would say, what we're making can be cool, 546 00:31:39,876 --> 00:31:41,796 Speaker 3: It's just not cool yet. 547 00:31:44,036 --> 00:31:48,796 Speaker 1: Well, well, to me, when I first heard his music, 548 00:31:49,236 --> 00:31:51,836 Speaker 1: I was hesitant before he even sent me into music 549 00:31:51,876 --> 00:31:54,516 Speaker 1: because I knew him as being an actor and I 550 00:31:54,556 --> 00:31:56,836 Speaker 1: was like, in my mind, I was like, well, okay, 551 00:31:57,036 --> 00:31:59,076 Speaker 1: a lot of actors probably think they can do music too. 552 00:31:59,636 --> 00:32:02,916 Speaker 1: And also in America, like people have a confidence that 553 00:32:03,036 --> 00:32:06,276 Speaker 1: you don't really demonstrate like that in Sweden. So when 554 00:32:06,316 --> 00:32:08,076 Speaker 1: he was like yeah, he wrote me an email like 555 00:32:08,076 --> 00:32:11,596 Speaker 1: I'm also rapper and musician and I don't know a 556 00:32:11,596 --> 00:32:13,516 Speaker 1: lot of people in LA, so maybe you can take 557 00:32:13,516 --> 00:32:16,116 Speaker 1: a listen to the song and recommend or help me 558 00:32:16,156 --> 00:32:18,396 Speaker 1: with the mixing of the track. And then he sent 559 00:32:18,436 --> 00:32:21,116 Speaker 1: me a song and I was so surprised. I've run back, 560 00:32:21,156 --> 00:32:23,716 Speaker 1: this is incredible. But what if we just add some 561 00:32:23,916 --> 00:32:26,716 Speaker 1: drums or add some live drums, or we work a 562 00:32:26,756 --> 00:32:29,396 Speaker 1: little bit on the arrangement. And he was really receptive 563 00:32:29,396 --> 00:32:31,196 Speaker 1: to that, and we met up and we started to 564 00:32:31,836 --> 00:32:35,156 Speaker 1: just work together for fifteen years. But I thought his 565 00:32:35,276 --> 00:32:37,436 Speaker 1: music was cool from the jump, and I just I 566 00:32:37,556 --> 00:32:39,636 Speaker 1: was like, is there any way we can make this better? 567 00:32:39,796 --> 00:32:42,316 Speaker 1: If any way I can just help in any way, 568 00:32:42,356 --> 00:32:43,636 Speaker 1: I would love to be part of it. 569 00:32:43,916 --> 00:32:47,436 Speaker 3: In those early collaborations, first on Cul de Sac, then 570 00:32:47,516 --> 00:32:51,036 Speaker 3: camp then because of the Internet, did it feel like 571 00:32:51,436 --> 00:32:53,716 Speaker 3: it was uncharted territory for you? 572 00:32:54,476 --> 00:32:57,876 Speaker 1: Absolutely? I mean I'd listened to rap music, not like 573 00:32:57,916 --> 00:33:00,516 Speaker 1: the standard ones. Like the record I had listened to 574 00:33:00,556 --> 00:33:02,996 Speaker 1: the most was a Fox and Brown album because I 575 00:33:03,036 --> 00:33:04,516 Speaker 1: just thought it was so cool how she had like 576 00:33:05,116 --> 00:33:07,756 Speaker 1: Egyptian music on there, and like how they use those samples. 577 00:33:08,316 --> 00:33:10,516 Speaker 1: I was listening to the and like midnight Culture is 578 00:33:10,596 --> 00:33:12,716 Speaker 1: like over and over and over again. I didn't have 579 00:33:12,756 --> 00:33:15,556 Speaker 1: that deep knowledge of hip hop at the time, and 580 00:33:15,036 --> 00:33:16,916 Speaker 1: I was and I had never really done a beat. 581 00:33:17,396 --> 00:33:20,196 Speaker 1: But that's also what's so exciting. He was kind of 582 00:33:20,196 --> 00:33:22,516 Speaker 1: introducing it to me and showing me like all these 583 00:33:22,556 --> 00:33:26,316 Speaker 1: incredible songs I didn't know, and it was like to me, 584 00:33:26,596 --> 00:33:29,876 Speaker 1: like yeah, learning in a new instrument, And it was 585 00:33:29,876 --> 00:33:31,276 Speaker 1: the most exciting thing for me. 586 00:33:31,916 --> 00:33:34,556 Speaker 3: You know. Around the time you two started really getting going, 587 00:33:35,356 --> 00:33:38,516 Speaker 3: you Donald and a bunch of your friends starred in 588 00:33:38,516 --> 00:33:42,796 Speaker 3: a short film directed by Hiro Maria called Clapping for 589 00:33:42,836 --> 00:33:46,196 Speaker 3: the Wrong Reasons. Now, this is a movie I personally 590 00:33:46,236 --> 00:33:49,316 Speaker 3: obsessed over with my friends as as soon to be 591 00:33:49,476 --> 00:33:53,236 Speaker 3: freshman in college back in twenty thirteen. Well, why don't 592 00:33:53,276 --> 00:33:55,916 Speaker 3: we take a look at one scene in particular where 593 00:33:56,796 --> 00:33:59,836 Speaker 3: you are playing on the guitar a little bit. 594 00:34:00,116 --> 00:34:49,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen that in ten years. 595 00:34:50,156 --> 00:34:51,236 Speaker 3: And what do you think. 596 00:34:51,636 --> 00:34:54,556 Speaker 1: I think we're all like searching. I think Donald was 597 00:34:54,556 --> 00:34:58,756 Speaker 1: definitely searching. And I didn't know, you know, how big 598 00:34:58,796 --> 00:35:00,876 Speaker 1: part of I was going to have on the record, 599 00:35:01,076 --> 00:35:02,796 Speaker 1: or if I was going to be part of it. 600 00:35:02,796 --> 00:35:06,356 Speaker 1: It was a very kind of uncertain time for me 601 00:35:06,396 --> 00:35:08,876 Speaker 1: at least. And then there was those There was those 602 00:35:09,436 --> 00:35:12,356 Speaker 1: joy of moments where we were in the studio in 603 00:35:12,356 --> 00:35:14,756 Speaker 1: that it was like one of the libraries and we 604 00:35:14,756 --> 00:35:16,956 Speaker 1: were in the studio there and I think it was 605 00:35:17,036 --> 00:35:20,276 Speaker 1: Chris bosh Old House, just out of nowhere. Like I was, 606 00:35:20,876 --> 00:35:22,756 Speaker 1: I was always kind of on the spot to come 607 00:35:22,796 --> 00:35:25,836 Speaker 1: up with something in the moment really really quick. I 608 00:35:25,876 --> 00:35:29,236 Speaker 1: was both stressful but also kind of exciting. And because 609 00:35:29,396 --> 00:35:31,396 Speaker 1: Donal had a lot of that time, I was like, 610 00:35:31,476 --> 00:35:33,596 Speaker 1: because he had a lot of things on his mind, 611 00:35:33,836 --> 00:35:35,596 Speaker 1: so if something was going to stick, we had a 612 00:35:35,676 --> 00:35:37,756 Speaker 1: very short amount of time in the stuito where where 613 00:35:37,756 --> 00:35:39,676 Speaker 1: he could just kind of get into the music. And 614 00:35:41,116 --> 00:35:42,876 Speaker 1: even though he spent a lot of time in the studio, 615 00:35:42,916 --> 00:35:44,636 Speaker 1: but I feel like when I was there, like we 616 00:35:44,676 --> 00:35:47,316 Speaker 1: had to do something quick, and it was a little 617 00:35:47,476 --> 00:35:50,276 Speaker 1: it was stressful, and then something great came out of it, 618 00:35:50,476 --> 00:35:51,676 Speaker 1: and it was like it was like kind of a 619 00:35:51,716 --> 00:35:54,516 Speaker 1: moment of joy and I was and and when that 620 00:35:54,716 --> 00:35:56,796 Speaker 1: little moment of joy happened, it was like hot. You know, 621 00:35:56,836 --> 00:35:59,916 Speaker 1: I had sustained that, you know, Okay, five minutes, ten minutes, okay, 622 00:36:00,036 --> 00:36:02,596 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. Oh this is sturning through song twenty you know. 623 00:36:02,636 --> 00:36:05,836 Speaker 1: So it was like it was a strange time. And 624 00:36:05,916 --> 00:36:08,636 Speaker 1: also like with all the albums that he's done, like 625 00:36:08,676 --> 00:36:10,916 Speaker 1: I don't know where he's taking it and don't know 626 00:36:11,716 --> 00:36:16,316 Speaker 1: where we're going. We just start off like driving blindless 627 00:36:16,476 --> 00:36:19,636 Speaker 1: At least me on that album, I thought we took 628 00:36:19,676 --> 00:36:21,876 Speaker 1: it to some really interesting places. 629 00:36:22,356 --> 00:36:25,316 Speaker 3: The way you're describing it, like that period of searching, 630 00:36:26,196 --> 00:36:31,156 Speaker 3: even now a decade removed, it still sounds as if 631 00:36:31,556 --> 00:36:33,076 Speaker 3: it's kind of a mystery to you. 632 00:36:33,756 --> 00:36:36,116 Speaker 1: It was a mystery because I was also in a 633 00:36:36,156 --> 00:36:40,076 Speaker 1: situation where I didn't I didn't understand those feelings that 634 00:36:40,076 --> 00:36:42,196 Speaker 1: I had. It was all about like trying to get 635 00:36:42,196 --> 00:36:44,436 Speaker 1: these music out. And I guess I think like the 636 00:36:44,476 --> 00:36:46,836 Speaker 1: feelings came out in the music. I mean, I know 637 00:36:46,876 --> 00:36:49,676 Speaker 1: that the feelings came out of music, and that's why 638 00:36:49,676 --> 00:36:51,676 Speaker 1: it's so interesting to hear that now, you know, I 639 00:36:51,716 --> 00:36:54,636 Speaker 1: can hear that anxcitty and stress, but the magic in 640 00:36:54,716 --> 00:36:57,516 Speaker 1: that and just those little few guitar chords that I heard, 641 00:36:57,676 --> 00:37:01,396 Speaker 1: and it's like a calming thing, especially that song like 642 00:37:01,436 --> 00:37:04,356 Speaker 1: the Flight of the Navigator. They all kind of feel 643 00:37:04,796 --> 00:37:07,516 Speaker 1: like you're a kid or you know, and playing that 644 00:37:07,556 --> 00:37:09,716 Speaker 1: in your room, and I think, but a lot of 645 00:37:09,756 --> 00:37:13,036 Speaker 1: it comes back to maybe sitting there being a kid 646 00:37:13,076 --> 00:37:16,836 Speaker 1: and being feeling lonely and sitting in your room and 647 00:37:16,876 --> 00:37:18,436 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what life's about. 648 00:37:18,436 --> 00:37:22,356 Speaker 3: Back in the basement. Yeah, it sounds to me like 649 00:37:22,876 --> 00:37:26,116 Speaker 3: it was like a self soothing sound, like you're feeling 650 00:37:26,156 --> 00:37:30,036 Speaker 3: all this anxiety and yet that track we just heard 651 00:37:31,716 --> 00:37:36,196 Speaker 3: is extremely calming and kind of self soothing. 652 00:37:37,116 --> 00:37:39,796 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's it's I don't know if you have kids, 653 00:37:39,836 --> 00:37:42,316 Speaker 1: but it's definitely a thing you see when you start 654 00:37:42,316 --> 00:37:44,996 Speaker 1: to understand a little thing a little bit with the 655 00:37:45,036 --> 00:37:48,196 Speaker 1: self soothing thing and how everyone finds their own ways 656 00:37:48,236 --> 00:37:52,036 Speaker 1: to self soothe. Some kids sucking her thumbs, some kids 657 00:37:52,076 --> 00:37:54,636 Speaker 1: like touch their face in a different way. 658 00:37:54,756 --> 00:37:56,876 Speaker 3: Some you know, some kids jam out to Metallica. 659 00:37:57,356 --> 00:38:02,076 Speaker 1: Some kids jam out to Metallica and makes sad, melancholic 660 00:38:02,196 --> 00:38:06,236 Speaker 1: songs that are also happy all happens in them because 661 00:38:06,716 --> 00:38:11,156 Speaker 1: you have great support from your parents. But yeah, there 662 00:38:11,196 --> 00:38:13,796 Speaker 1: was I was definitely. I think when I think back 663 00:38:13,836 --> 00:38:15,876 Speaker 1: at it, too, I was lonely also a lot as 664 00:38:15,956 --> 00:38:19,036 Speaker 1: a as a kid. You know, my parents also they 665 00:38:19,036 --> 00:38:22,396 Speaker 1: also worked a lot, and my sister was six years older, 666 00:38:22,436 --> 00:38:25,316 Speaker 1: so spent a lot of time just by myself too. 667 00:38:25,716 --> 00:38:29,316 Speaker 3: You've clearly used that loneliness and channeled it into the work. 668 00:38:29,796 --> 00:38:33,876 Speaker 3: And I wanted to pinpoint those two moments with Coogler 669 00:38:34,116 --> 00:38:37,316 Speaker 3: and Glover because at least to me, they seem like 670 00:38:37,396 --> 00:38:42,116 Speaker 3: the foundational building blocks of what would become a decade 671 00:38:42,196 --> 00:38:46,916 Speaker 3: long collaboration, going from Black Panther with Ryan for What 672 00:38:47,036 --> 00:38:50,436 Speaker 3: You Want an Oscar to producing This Is America with 673 00:38:50,516 --> 00:38:54,156 Speaker 3: Donald for Which You Want a Grammy, which, of course, 674 00:38:54,716 --> 00:38:59,236 Speaker 3: through this decade brings us back to Oppenheimer. And part 675 00:38:59,276 --> 00:39:03,436 Speaker 3: of this film is about a man obsessed with his work, 676 00:39:04,116 --> 00:39:08,196 Speaker 3: a man who moves further and further into this project 677 00:39:08,276 --> 00:39:13,036 Speaker 3: and farther in farther away from his family. And as 678 00:39:13,036 --> 00:39:16,236 Speaker 3: I was rewatching it last night, I was reminded of 679 00:39:16,276 --> 00:39:20,236 Speaker 3: this quote you had where you said, when I go 680 00:39:20,276 --> 00:39:22,756 Speaker 3: into the studio, regardless of whether I write the music, 681 00:39:23,076 --> 00:39:26,516 Speaker 3: produce an album, or write a film score, you just 682 00:39:26,596 --> 00:39:31,236 Speaker 3: immerse yourself into this other world. You become obsessed. Most 683 00:39:31,316 --> 00:39:35,476 Speaker 3: artists are extremists. You close yourself off and the work 684 00:39:35,636 --> 00:39:41,636 Speaker 3: becomes your world. That obsession that's central to Oppenheimer. Did 685 00:39:41,636 --> 00:39:45,516 Speaker 3: you feel that kinship in making this score for it? 686 00:39:46,116 --> 00:39:49,076 Speaker 1: I think that's very true, but I don't consciously. I 687 00:39:49,116 --> 00:39:52,476 Speaker 1: don't think about any of that when I'm in the process. 688 00:39:52,476 --> 00:39:56,196 Speaker 1: It's more afterwards, like the conversation we have now, where 689 00:39:56,196 --> 00:39:58,916 Speaker 1: I see that being a pattern in the way. 690 00:39:58,796 --> 00:40:02,236 Speaker 3: I work, the pattern of obsession, and for me, that's. 691 00:40:02,116 --> 00:40:04,396 Speaker 1: The only way I can do it, really. And I 692 00:40:04,436 --> 00:40:07,596 Speaker 1: think also with age comes, you know, you get a 693 00:40:07,596 --> 00:40:11,036 Speaker 1: little bit of different. You're having your starting family, You're 694 00:40:11,356 --> 00:40:13,436 Speaker 1: starting to see your priorities in a different way. But 695 00:40:14,116 --> 00:40:16,716 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I'm doing having the wrong priorities. 696 00:40:16,756 --> 00:40:20,836 Speaker 1: But I've definitely been the last fifteen years just non 697 00:40:20,916 --> 00:40:26,036 Speaker 1: stop doing that, you know, without breaks, like extremist world 698 00:40:26,076 --> 00:40:29,596 Speaker 1: to extremist, and they're all so extremely different too. It 699 00:40:29,756 --> 00:40:31,356 Speaker 1: was also why I think It works for me because 700 00:40:31,396 --> 00:40:34,156 Speaker 1: it's so I'm like a different person, different world every time, 701 00:40:34,196 --> 00:40:37,756 Speaker 1: and it's so exciting to discover these places, but it 702 00:40:37,796 --> 00:40:38,956 Speaker 1: also takes a toll. 703 00:40:39,516 --> 00:40:40,956 Speaker 3: What toll has it taken? 704 00:40:42,476 --> 00:40:45,276 Speaker 1: I think more now for me, it's more important to 705 00:40:45,356 --> 00:40:47,916 Speaker 1: kind of take the time after you finish something like 706 00:40:47,956 --> 00:40:51,836 Speaker 1: this and think about how it affected you and think 707 00:40:51,836 --> 00:40:54,676 Speaker 1: about how what happened, you know, how it happened, how 708 00:40:54,676 --> 00:40:57,596 Speaker 1: it came together, and where the places you went and 709 00:40:57,676 --> 00:41:00,796 Speaker 1: reflecting more. I guess I'm just more interested in that now, 710 00:41:01,396 --> 00:41:03,396 Speaker 1: where before that I was just on a train, on 711 00:41:03,396 --> 00:41:07,716 Speaker 1: stuff train, and I realized now how all these experiences 712 00:41:07,876 --> 00:41:11,476 Speaker 1: had such a deep impact in me, both on music 713 00:41:11,596 --> 00:41:15,436 Speaker 1: levels but personal levels. And I'm excited because after I 714 00:41:15,476 --> 00:41:19,876 Speaker 1: finished Oppenheimer, now I've had some time to engage with 715 00:41:20,036 --> 00:41:24,236 Speaker 1: everything else in my life, and that's kind of a 716 00:41:24,356 --> 00:41:25,716 Speaker 1: very exciting chapter for me. 717 00:41:26,516 --> 00:41:28,836 Speaker 3: We've spent a lot of time talking about, you know, 718 00:41:29,276 --> 00:41:34,836 Speaker 3: the personal side of making music, in the process, your process, 719 00:41:35,196 --> 00:41:38,796 Speaker 3: but when we take a step back, this film is 720 00:41:38,836 --> 00:41:44,236 Speaker 3: like coming out at a very fascinating time, especially in 721 00:41:44,276 --> 00:41:49,076 Speaker 3: Hollywood because of course there's this strike that's happening and 722 00:41:49,876 --> 00:41:54,836 Speaker 3: one of the big existential fears and issues. At play 723 00:41:55,116 --> 00:42:00,196 Speaker 3: is the use of artificial intelligence, which throughout the film's release, 724 00:42:00,356 --> 00:42:06,556 Speaker 3: Nolan has explicitly made the comparison between Oppenheimer developing the 725 00:42:06,596 --> 00:42:10,036 Speaker 3: A bomb in the early forties and the theoretical physicists 726 00:42:10,036 --> 00:42:13,956 Speaker 3: that faced backlash an uncertainty from the US military and Congress, 727 00:42:14,316 --> 00:42:17,476 Speaker 3: much like the tech industry is facing today in its 728 00:42:17,556 --> 00:42:21,596 Speaker 3: race to make AI more powerful. He said, quote when 729 00:42:21,596 --> 00:42:24,036 Speaker 3: I talk to leading researchers in the field of AI 730 00:42:24,196 --> 00:42:28,676 Speaker 3: right now, they literally refer to this as their Oppenheimer moment. 731 00:42:29,156 --> 00:42:31,676 Speaker 3: They're looking to a story to say, Okay, what are 732 00:42:31,716 --> 00:42:36,196 Speaker 3: the responsibilities for scientists developing new technologies that may have 733 00:42:36,356 --> 00:42:41,676 Speaker 3: unintended consequences? When it comes to making music? Where are 734 00:42:41,756 --> 00:42:46,636 Speaker 3: you at on what AI can do, will do, how 735 00:42:46,756 --> 00:42:48,876 Speaker 3: will change the job itself? 736 00:42:50,396 --> 00:42:54,676 Speaker 1: I'm very interested in these type of questions and in 737 00:42:54,716 --> 00:42:57,396 Speaker 1: the technology. And it's not even at their doorshups already 738 00:42:57,716 --> 00:43:01,836 Speaker 1: entered our houses, enter our living rooms, and our listening experiences, 739 00:43:01,956 --> 00:43:04,756 Speaker 1: especially you know with that Drake Weekend song that everyone 740 00:43:05,716 --> 00:43:07,756 Speaker 1: you know. I don't know how many million views it has, 741 00:43:07,796 --> 00:43:11,396 Speaker 1: but it's quite a lot heard it yet, so you 742 00:43:11,436 --> 00:43:15,276 Speaker 1: can't like deny that it's going to change music forever. 743 00:43:15,716 --> 00:43:18,876 Speaker 1: You can have anyone sitting in the room and just like, oh, 744 00:43:18,996 --> 00:43:20,916 Speaker 1: I want to have a beat that sounds like Michael 745 00:43:20,956 --> 00:43:23,756 Speaker 1: Jackson from the seventies, and I want Brunan Morris to 746 00:43:23,796 --> 00:43:26,396 Speaker 1: sing a happy birthday message to my wife because he 747 00:43:26,436 --> 00:43:28,676 Speaker 1: loves him. You know, I don't think there's a way 748 00:43:28,676 --> 00:43:31,236 Speaker 1: to stop that from happening. I think we all just 749 00:43:31,316 --> 00:43:34,956 Speaker 1: need to embrace it and know that it's here. I 750 00:43:34,956 --> 00:43:37,276 Speaker 1: think it's going to be a big shift in music 751 00:43:37,356 --> 00:43:40,396 Speaker 1: about you going to be able to hear the difference, 752 00:43:40,876 --> 00:43:42,396 Speaker 1: you know. I think people are really going to be 753 00:43:42,396 --> 00:43:46,636 Speaker 1: able to hear the difference in what's made with computers 754 00:43:46,796 --> 00:43:50,996 Speaker 1: and what's not made with computers, and how much computer 755 00:43:51,116 --> 00:43:52,956 Speaker 1: was a part of this and how much what computer 756 00:43:53,036 --> 00:43:53,756 Speaker 1: wasn't a part of it. 757 00:43:53,836 --> 00:43:56,716 Speaker 3: Do you think people will be able to distinguish between 758 00:43:56,756 --> 00:43:57,076 Speaker 3: the two. 759 00:43:57,356 --> 00:44:00,876 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. I think maybe there'd be a different service 760 00:44:00,996 --> 00:44:04,036 Speaker 1: like AI music will be cheaper and music that people 761 00:44:04,196 --> 00:44:07,236 Speaker 1: put their own minds and heart and brains to would 762 00:44:07,276 --> 00:44:10,476 Speaker 1: be more expensive. And I think everyone's going to start 763 00:44:10,556 --> 00:44:13,476 Speaker 1: using these tools that are going to come to place, 764 00:44:13,516 --> 00:44:16,516 Speaker 1: and it's just like what shortcuts do you want to take, 765 00:44:16,636 --> 00:44:19,396 Speaker 1: like how much you want to shut your own creativity off? 766 00:44:19,636 --> 00:44:22,436 Speaker 1: And I think that's going to be some important decisions 767 00:44:22,636 --> 00:44:23,396 Speaker 1: you're going to have to make. 768 00:44:23,756 --> 00:44:26,076 Speaker 3: Have you been thinking about that for yourself, Like what 769 00:44:26,116 --> 00:44:29,916 Speaker 3: you're willing to use and not use? Shortcuts taken not taken? 770 00:44:30,276 --> 00:44:32,236 Speaker 1: No, I want tot try it all, give it all 771 00:44:32,276 --> 00:44:34,316 Speaker 1: to me and see what I can how I can 772 00:44:34,316 --> 00:44:37,076 Speaker 1: customize it as much as possible and make it. But 773 00:44:37,276 --> 00:44:39,516 Speaker 1: I don't have any tools yet, so I don't I 774 00:44:39,556 --> 00:44:44,076 Speaker 1: haven't worked with any AI software or things yet. But 775 00:44:44,156 --> 00:44:46,556 Speaker 1: I think that's just a matter of like probably months 776 00:44:46,636 --> 00:44:50,516 Speaker 1: or weeks or it's already things out there that I 777 00:44:50,516 --> 00:44:52,636 Speaker 1: think people are using now. I want to see what 778 00:44:52,636 --> 00:44:53,236 Speaker 1: it's all about. 779 00:44:53,516 --> 00:44:56,836 Speaker 3: You sound completely unafraid about this future. You're kind of 780 00:44:56,876 --> 00:44:59,716 Speaker 3: one of the first people I've talked to that seems 781 00:44:59,756 --> 00:45:01,396 Speaker 3: only optimistic. 782 00:45:02,076 --> 00:45:04,916 Speaker 1: I'm just talking about the music aspect of it. There's 783 00:45:04,956 --> 00:45:10,276 Speaker 1: other problems, obviously, think it's other consequences, but the music 784 00:45:10,356 --> 00:45:14,396 Speaker 1: aspect of it, I I don't think, at least for me, 785 00:45:15,076 --> 00:45:18,876 Speaker 1: I don't see any threats in computers making music. Some 786 00:45:18,876 --> 00:45:20,956 Speaker 1: people are going to listen to it. Something's going to 787 00:45:21,036 --> 00:45:23,156 Speaker 1: be great. It just it just kind of depends on 788 00:45:23,196 --> 00:45:24,436 Speaker 1: who's who's making. 789 00:45:24,196 --> 00:45:29,316 Speaker 3: It well before technology changes, how this job is fundamentally done. 790 00:45:29,996 --> 00:45:33,676 Speaker 3: Why don't we celebrate a human feat? Is there a 791 00:45:33,756 --> 00:45:37,796 Speaker 3: track from Oppenheimer that you are most proud of, like 792 00:45:37,916 --> 00:45:41,196 Speaker 3: one that you want people to hear as we leave 793 00:45:41,236 --> 00:45:42,636 Speaker 3: this conversation. 794 00:45:43,396 --> 00:45:46,476 Speaker 1: Yeah, we should probably play the can you hear the music? 795 00:45:46,516 --> 00:45:46,756 Speaker 3: Track? 796 00:45:46,996 --> 00:45:49,036 Speaker 1: And for me that was one that was like a 797 00:45:49,076 --> 00:45:54,196 Speaker 1: breakthrough moment I had on this project, but also in 798 00:45:54,236 --> 00:45:58,996 Speaker 1: a way I have made music in kind of in 799 00:45:59,036 --> 00:46:01,836 Speaker 1: a technical level, but also but also it was like 800 00:46:01,876 --> 00:46:04,116 Speaker 1: kind of like a Eureka moment for me, like on 801 00:46:04,156 --> 00:46:09,516 Speaker 1: a technical level, writing a composition that goes faster, faster 802 00:46:09,596 --> 00:46:12,876 Speaker 1: and faster, but after a while, after a couple of bars, 803 00:46:12,956 --> 00:46:15,356 Speaker 1: you don't even the listener and the audience doesn't even 804 00:46:15,356 --> 00:46:18,276 Speaker 1: feel it and think about it. It's just it all, 805 00:46:18,316 --> 00:46:22,116 Speaker 1: it's just an emotion. And then one of the important 806 00:46:22,356 --> 00:46:25,316 Speaker 1: parts of the process was to figure out a way 807 00:46:25,356 --> 00:46:27,716 Speaker 1: how we can get the orchestra to perform this in 808 00:46:27,796 --> 00:46:31,516 Speaker 1: one take, because if you see the charts, it's literally 809 00:46:31,556 --> 00:46:34,556 Speaker 1: like twenty one tempo changes. It goes faster, slower, faster, slower, 810 00:46:35,036 --> 00:46:38,036 Speaker 1: and if you just see it on the page, you're like, 811 00:46:38,196 --> 00:46:39,796 Speaker 1: this is not You're not going to get four to 812 00:46:39,796 --> 00:46:41,916 Speaker 1: string players who play this in a way where it's 813 00:46:41,916 --> 00:46:44,676 Speaker 1: going to sound good in one take. But we worked 814 00:46:44,676 --> 00:46:47,516 Speaker 1: on this for three days and kind of banging our 815 00:46:47,556 --> 00:46:49,916 Speaker 1: heads against the walls, like how can we get this 816 00:46:50,396 --> 00:46:54,836 Speaker 1: performance right? In the ends, like Sereno, she was like, well, 817 00:46:54,876 --> 00:46:57,836 Speaker 1: these musicians are incredible. She's been playing with them for 818 00:46:57,956 --> 00:47:00,236 Speaker 1: fifteen years through like the Hollwood Studio Symphony, and they 819 00:47:00,876 --> 00:47:02,516 Speaker 1: this is their job. They sit in the studio and 820 00:47:02,556 --> 00:47:05,556 Speaker 1: played seven hours a day to click to a metronome. 821 00:47:05,556 --> 00:47:08,396 Speaker 1: And we figured out a way to give the musicians 822 00:47:08,596 --> 00:47:10,916 Speaker 1: a click in their head, the tempo change or time 823 00:47:11,036 --> 00:47:13,716 Speaker 1: change in their mind and their heads before it happens 824 00:47:13,756 --> 00:47:17,756 Speaker 1: on the page. And when we gave them that track, 825 00:47:17,836 --> 00:47:21,836 Speaker 1: it just this magic happened. So that's really interesting how 826 00:47:21,876 --> 00:47:25,636 Speaker 1: you combine technology and computers, because this music you couldn't 827 00:47:25,676 --> 00:47:28,996 Speaker 1: have really written it with our computers. But then putting 828 00:47:29,036 --> 00:47:32,116 Speaker 1: that organic element into it with the live string players 829 00:47:32,196 --> 00:47:34,916 Speaker 1: playing it all in one taken organic way gives it 830 00:47:35,076 --> 00:47:38,596 Speaker 1: so much life and makes it timeless and makes it 831 00:47:38,596 --> 00:47:39,836 Speaker 1: feel like it's human. 832 00:47:40,476 --> 00:47:42,796 Speaker 3: I guess we should listen to how that all turned out? 833 00:47:43,076 --> 00:47:46,116 Speaker 3: All right? This is can you hear the music from 834 00:47:46,116 --> 00:49:15,196 Speaker 3: the film Appenheimer, don't when you're listening to that. Could 835 00:49:15,276 --> 00:49:20,156 Speaker 3: you have ever imagine that that young, lonely kid playing 836 00:49:20,236 --> 00:49:24,156 Speaker 3: music in the basement would one day create something like that? 837 00:49:25,276 --> 00:49:27,156 Speaker 1: No, I don't, I don't. I don't see that in 838 00:49:27,196 --> 00:49:31,516 Speaker 1: the charts. My dreams was to become a member of Metallica. 839 00:49:31,876 --> 00:49:35,156 Speaker 1: That never happened. There's still time, it's still time. No, 840 00:49:35,236 --> 00:49:37,396 Speaker 1: but it's like it's like my dream was you know, 841 00:49:37,436 --> 00:49:39,596 Speaker 1: I was. I was streaming about playing my instrument, being 842 00:49:39,596 --> 00:49:44,236 Speaker 1: on stage and playing big crowds, and and we've done that, 843 00:49:44,396 --> 00:49:46,956 Speaker 1: you know, we did that with Childish And and then 844 00:49:47,156 --> 00:49:50,076 Speaker 1: I was streaming of being a pop producer and being 845 00:49:50,276 --> 00:49:53,276 Speaker 1: producing music and that happened too, And and then I 846 00:49:53,316 --> 00:49:56,036 Speaker 1: was dreaming about being a film composer, and then that 847 00:49:56,076 --> 00:50:00,916 Speaker 1: happened too, And and musically, all all those goals and 848 00:50:01,036 --> 00:50:05,796 Speaker 1: milestones and stones, just I guess I was. I was lucky. 849 00:50:05,956 --> 00:50:08,996 Speaker 3: I kind of bring up that basement once more as really, 850 00:50:09,276 --> 00:50:13,116 Speaker 3: because I've heard that this past summer you went back 851 00:50:13,236 --> 00:50:17,356 Speaker 3: down and to that basement with your mother where you 852 00:50:17,396 --> 00:50:21,716 Speaker 3: were looking for toys for your kids. What was that 853 00:50:21,876 --> 00:50:24,156 Speaker 3: like to go back to that place, not for you 854 00:50:24,236 --> 00:50:28,276 Speaker 3: but for your children. It was kind of magical, you know, 855 00:50:28,556 --> 00:50:31,356 Speaker 3: you're kind of stepping into that. At that time was 856 00:50:31,436 --> 00:50:34,636 Speaker 3: just all the reality and now it's a memory. But 857 00:50:34,836 --> 00:50:38,756 Speaker 3: it was my safe space. It was my soothing place, 858 00:50:38,916 --> 00:50:42,676 Speaker 3: you know, where I felt calm, and that's where I 859 00:50:42,676 --> 00:50:46,556 Speaker 3: felt most like myself. It was a beautiful moment going 860 00:50:46,596 --> 00:50:49,636 Speaker 3: back there, and everything obviously felt super small, So I 861 00:50:49,676 --> 00:50:52,276 Speaker 3: feel like I was a giant now and the limpid land. 862 00:50:53,116 --> 00:50:55,356 Speaker 3: See all those guitars still hanging on the wall, seeing 863 00:50:55,396 --> 00:50:58,236 Speaker 3: those old tape machines, old tape records I used to use, 864 00:50:58,276 --> 00:51:02,236 Speaker 3: and how they're all still there, And yeah, just thinking 865 00:51:02,276 --> 00:51:04,996 Speaker 3: about like where it's you know, what am we gonna 866 00:51:04,996 --> 00:51:08,316 Speaker 3: do with all this when I get old? And I'm 867 00:51:08,316 --> 00:51:11,836 Speaker 3: like kids to do the same thing at like what Yeah, 868 00:51:11,876 --> 00:51:13,796 Speaker 3: it's a lot of also a lot of questions. Did 869 00:51:13,836 --> 00:51:16,836 Speaker 3: you find the high school report or something like that? 870 00:51:17,076 --> 00:51:20,276 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I found a high school report? Right, I 871 00:51:20,276 --> 00:51:21,756 Speaker 1: guess you talked. Did you talk to my mom? 872 00:51:21,836 --> 00:51:23,676 Speaker 3: Yeah? I called her up. I called her up right 873 00:51:23,676 --> 00:51:24,036 Speaker 3: before this. 874 00:51:24,156 --> 00:51:25,836 Speaker 1: Now I didn't talk to her, So how do you. 875 00:51:25,796 --> 00:51:28,476 Speaker 3: Know you said it in an interview. Oh okay, yeah, 876 00:51:28,596 --> 00:51:31,276 Speaker 3: I really appreciate that. You think I called your mother 877 00:51:31,316 --> 00:51:34,276 Speaker 3: before this podcast. It means we've done our job. 878 00:51:34,596 --> 00:51:37,396 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I was like, yeah, you really don uh no, 879 00:51:37,516 --> 00:51:39,676 Speaker 1: but I yeah, found the high school report of my 880 00:51:40,356 --> 00:51:43,236 Speaker 1: five Minutes of Christmas when I wrote about the process 881 00:51:43,276 --> 00:51:46,476 Speaker 1: how I created it, and it's still in my in 882 00:51:46,516 --> 00:51:48,796 Speaker 1: my backpack, Like I don't know why. I like I 883 00:51:48,876 --> 00:51:51,116 Speaker 1: see it laying there and like I know that I 884 00:51:51,116 --> 00:51:53,116 Speaker 1: I want to read it, but at the same time, 885 00:51:53,236 --> 00:51:55,876 Speaker 1: I don't want to go back to that kid that 886 00:51:55,916 --> 00:51:58,036 Speaker 1: I was and the way I was thinking about music 887 00:51:58,036 --> 00:52:01,916 Speaker 1: then because it's it's uh. I feel like it's because 888 00:52:01,956 --> 00:52:04,836 Speaker 1: like I thought I had it all figured out, you know, 889 00:52:06,156 --> 00:52:07,956 Speaker 1: I was like, right the report about it, this is 890 00:52:08,356 --> 00:52:12,236 Speaker 1: how you make me. But now I can I know 891 00:52:12,356 --> 00:52:14,876 Speaker 1: now that I didn't know. You know, I didn't have 892 00:52:14,876 --> 00:52:15,516 Speaker 1: it figure it out. 893 00:52:15,716 --> 00:52:17,116 Speaker 3: You've been really putting it off. 894 00:52:17,836 --> 00:52:20,596 Speaker 1: I've been really putting that off. Maybe I knows who's 895 00:52:20,636 --> 00:52:23,116 Speaker 1: going to bring back like a lot of memories and 896 00:52:23,156 --> 00:52:25,836 Speaker 1: emotions and I just need to find the right space 897 00:52:25,876 --> 00:52:26,236 Speaker 1: to do that. 898 00:52:26,796 --> 00:52:30,676 Speaker 3: Well, whatever that is, I'm excited for you to revisit 899 00:52:30,756 --> 00:52:34,596 Speaker 3: that past self. But until then, I want to look 900 00:52:34,636 --> 00:52:37,716 Speaker 3: ahead a little bit because one of the other main 901 00:52:37,796 --> 00:52:42,276 Speaker 3: components of a Nolan movie is time, how we use it, 902 00:52:42,876 --> 00:52:45,156 Speaker 3: how we try to bend it to our will, how 903 00:52:45,196 --> 00:52:48,316 Speaker 3: we regard time that has passed or time that has 904 00:52:48,396 --> 00:52:51,996 Speaker 3: yet to come. But time is also something I think 905 00:52:52,396 --> 00:52:57,236 Speaker 3: you've long been preoccupied by, well before you began working 906 00:52:57,236 --> 00:53:00,756 Speaker 3: with Nolan on Tenant, Because isn't it true that when 907 00:53:00,756 --> 00:53:04,956 Speaker 3: you left for America at age twenty two, landing here 908 00:53:05,436 --> 00:53:09,996 Speaker 3: in Los Angeles enrolled at USC did you map out 909 00:53:10,036 --> 00:53:11,556 Speaker 3: how you wanted your career to go. 910 00:53:12,196 --> 00:53:15,116 Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like I've always had like I always 911 00:53:15,156 --> 00:53:17,476 Speaker 1: had the five year plan, a tenure plan, and like 912 00:53:17,596 --> 00:53:19,836 Speaker 1: I always know where I'm going to be the next 913 00:53:19,876 --> 00:53:22,276 Speaker 1: you know. I don't know how that's where that comes from, 914 00:53:22,316 --> 00:53:26,596 Speaker 1: but it's always been kind of milestones in my mind 915 00:53:26,716 --> 00:53:28,396 Speaker 1: about where I want to be and what I want 916 00:53:28,436 --> 00:53:32,716 Speaker 1: to do, And I guess is some kind of magic. Right. 917 00:53:32,836 --> 00:53:34,236 Speaker 1: You create your own future. 918 00:53:34,476 --> 00:53:37,356 Speaker 3: Your mother said when you moved here, here were the 919 00:53:37,516 --> 00:53:40,396 Speaker 3: big three things. Get a job as an assistant one 920 00:53:40,476 --> 00:53:44,796 Speaker 3: year after graduation, score your own projects after three years, 921 00:53:45,276 --> 00:53:49,676 Speaker 3: Win an academy award within twelve years. Sometimes she said, 922 00:53:50,196 --> 00:53:52,996 Speaker 3: he's much faster than what he planned. 923 00:53:52,956 --> 00:53:56,116 Speaker 1: The all times reality, I guess, but yeah, that's interesting. 924 00:53:56,756 --> 00:54:00,156 Speaker 3: Well, now that you're back home and you're sitting with 925 00:54:00,236 --> 00:54:03,436 Speaker 3: this past year and thinking about what's to come, what 926 00:54:03,516 --> 00:54:05,196 Speaker 3: do you want down the line? 927 00:54:06,716 --> 00:54:11,956 Speaker 1: I think right now, just I know how I work, 928 00:54:12,276 --> 00:54:15,596 Speaker 1: I know what makes me happy. I know what type 929 00:54:15,636 --> 00:54:18,236 Speaker 1: of process makes me happy, what kind of collaborators makes 930 00:54:18,276 --> 00:54:22,836 Speaker 1: me happy, And if I can get that and have 931 00:54:22,916 --> 00:54:25,756 Speaker 1: the time to enjoy with my family as well, I 932 00:54:25,796 --> 00:54:28,236 Speaker 1: think that's the only thing that I mean, I'm asking 933 00:54:28,276 --> 00:54:29,956 Speaker 1: for a lot, but I'm not sure how I'm going 934 00:54:30,036 --> 00:54:31,796 Speaker 1: to do it, but I think I know a way, 935 00:54:32,676 --> 00:54:36,076 Speaker 1: and I feel like every day I'm I'm getting closer 936 00:54:36,076 --> 00:54:39,956 Speaker 1: to the answers of all those questions you have and 937 00:54:40,036 --> 00:54:42,156 Speaker 1: also all those questions I had and feelings that I 938 00:54:42,196 --> 00:54:44,276 Speaker 1: didn't even think about as a kid. And it's like 939 00:54:44,316 --> 00:54:47,116 Speaker 1: I'm trying to trying to like going back into those 940 00:54:47,156 --> 00:54:50,956 Speaker 1: times and understanding it now. And I realized how important 941 00:54:50,996 --> 00:54:55,916 Speaker 1: that is from like a musical clarity of it. I'm 942 00:54:55,916 --> 00:54:58,516 Speaker 1: probably more excited than I ever been to to kind 943 00:54:58,556 --> 00:55:01,596 Speaker 1: of step back into it and discover new paths and 944 00:55:01,636 --> 00:55:05,236 Speaker 1: new ways and new worlds. And that's also why I 945 00:55:05,316 --> 00:55:07,956 Speaker 1: wanted to take a little time off and to really 946 00:55:08,156 --> 00:55:10,396 Speaker 1: get back into that that space again. 947 00:55:11,276 --> 00:55:14,116 Speaker 3: Well, the first thing you said when we sat down 948 00:55:14,316 --> 00:55:19,076 Speaker 3: was I'm afraid to cut my long hair because it 949 00:55:19,116 --> 00:55:24,316 Speaker 3: may make me a different person. I may be someone new. 950 00:55:25,156 --> 00:55:28,156 Speaker 3: And I have to say, after having sat here with 951 00:55:28,196 --> 00:55:30,596 Speaker 3: you for this last hour, I kind of think you 952 00:55:30,676 --> 00:55:34,116 Speaker 3: don't need to cut your hair to become a different person. 953 00:55:35,156 --> 00:55:37,396 Speaker 3: It's already happening right now. 954 00:55:37,836 --> 00:55:40,756 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, thank you. Yeah, I'll keep it. 955 00:55:40,916 --> 00:55:42,916 Speaker 3: If not for me, then for Ryan Coogler. 956 00:55:43,036 --> 00:55:45,916 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. 957 00:55:46,196 --> 00:55:48,596 Speaker 3: And whatever person you end up becoming and whatever you 958 00:55:48,676 --> 00:55:52,356 Speaker 3: make because of it, I am so looking forward to it. 959 00:55:52,436 --> 00:55:54,796 Speaker 3: And I just want to thank you on a personal 960 00:55:54,876 --> 00:55:59,396 Speaker 3: level for making so much of the music that was 961 00:56:00,236 --> 00:56:04,156 Speaker 3: kind of a soundtrack to my formative high school college years, 962 00:56:04,836 --> 00:56:07,276 Speaker 3: without which I don't think I would be the strange 963 00:56:07,996 --> 00:56:11,356 Speaker 3: other long haired person and sitting in this zoom call. 964 00:56:13,116 --> 00:56:15,476 Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate that, and we should meet up some 965 00:56:15,516 --> 00:56:18,756 Speaker 1: time in real life and be that's too strange white 966 00:56:18,756 --> 00:56:20,356 Speaker 1: guys with long hair singing in the back of the 967 00:56:20,396 --> 00:56:20,996 Speaker 1: coffee shop. 968 00:56:23,476 --> 00:56:26,796 Speaker 3: I look forward to Ludvig enjoy the rest of the summer, 969 00:56:27,036 --> 00:56:27,716 Speaker 3: you too, Sam. 970 00:56:27,796 --> 00:56:30,196 Speaker 1: It was a great time talking to you and I 971 00:56:30,236 --> 00:56:31,676 Speaker 1: really appreciate this conversation. 972 00:56:31,796 --> 00:57:04,236 Speaker 3: Thank you until next time, and that's our show. If 973 00:57:04,276 --> 00:57:06,836 Speaker 3: you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to leave us five 974 00:57:06,876 --> 00:57:10,796 Speaker 3: stars on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you like to listen. 975 00:57:10,996 --> 00:57:12,636 Speaker 3: I want to give a special thanks this week to 976 00:57:12,676 --> 00:57:16,996 Speaker 3: the team at Online Voices in Stockholm, the Academy Library, 977 00:57:17,316 --> 00:57:23,036 Speaker 3: id PR, Universal and of course Ludwig Gorenson. To learn 978 00:57:23,076 --> 00:57:26,876 Speaker 3: more about all of the music discussed in today's episode, 979 00:57:27,076 --> 00:57:29,836 Speaker 3: be sure to visit our show notes at talk easypod 980 00:57:30,396 --> 00:57:34,116 Speaker 3: dot com for more conversations. I'd recommend our talks with 981 00:57:34,196 --> 00:57:39,036 Speaker 3: Pedro Pascal Hero, Marie Tessa Thompson, Alana Hiam, Deb Hines 982 00:57:39,276 --> 00:57:43,476 Speaker 3: and Ruth E. Carter to hear those in more Pushkin podcasts. 983 00:57:43,796 --> 00:57:47,876 Speaker 3: Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. 984 00:57:48,356 --> 00:57:51,676 Speaker 3: You can also follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram at 985 00:57:51,716 --> 00:57:54,516 Speaker 3: talk easypod. If you want to purchase one of our 986 00:57:54,556 --> 00:57:57,516 Speaker 3: mugs they Come and Cream or Navy, or our vinyl 987 00:57:57,596 --> 00:58:00,756 Speaker 3: record with writer fran Leebowitz, you can do so at 988 00:58:00,796 --> 00:58:06,396 Speaker 3: talk easypod dot com. Slash Shop that's Talk easypod dot 989 00:58:06,436 --> 00:58:11,436 Speaker 3: com slash Shop Talk Easy is produced by Caroline Reebok. 990 00:58:11,596 --> 00:58:15,116 Speaker 3: Our executive producer is Janixa Bravo. Our associate producer is 991 00:58:15,196 --> 00:58:19,316 Speaker 3: Caitlin Dryden. Our research and production assistant is Paulina Suarez. 992 00:58:19,396 --> 00:58:22,556 Speaker 3: Today's talk was edited by Caitlin Dryden and mixed by 993 00:58:22,596 --> 00:58:27,236 Speaker 3: Andrew Vastola. Our assistant editors are Clarice Gavara and c J. Mitchell. 994 00:58:27,316 --> 00:58:30,156 Speaker 3: Our music is by Dylan Peck. Our illustrations are by 995 00:58:30,236 --> 00:58:33,636 Speaker 3: Christia Schenoy. Video and graphics by Ian Chang, Derek Gamberzac, 996 00:58:33,716 --> 00:58:36,556 Speaker 3: Ian Jones and Ethan Senca. I also want to thank 997 00:58:36,596 --> 00:58:40,556 Speaker 3: our team at Pushkin Industries, Justin Richmond, Julia Barton, John 998 00:58:40,596 --> 00:58:43,716 Speaker 3: shnar Is, Kerrie Brody, David Glover, Heather Fame, Eric Sandler, 999 00:58:43,796 --> 00:58:48,436 Speaker 3: Jordan McMillan, Isabella Narvais, Kira Posey, Tera Machado, Maya Canning, 1000 00:58:48,596 --> 00:58:52,996 Speaker 3: Jason Gambrel, Justine lang Lee, Tom Mallode, Malcolm Gladwell and 1001 00:58:53,156 --> 00:58:57,836 Speaker 3: Jacob Weisberg. I'm Sam Fragoso, thank you for listening to 1002 00:58:57,876 --> 00:59:00,956 Speaker 3: Talk Easy. I'll see you back here next week with 1003 00:59:01,076 --> 00:59:10,716 Speaker 3: another episode. Until then, Stay Safe and so on is 1004 00:59:10,956 --> 00:59:12,796 Speaker 3: PCPs