1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. In the 4 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: late eighteenth century, Sarah Ponsonby and Lady Eleanor Butler, who 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: became known as the Ladies of Van Goflin, abandoned their 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: life in the upper tiers of Irish society and made 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: a home for themselves in Wales. And even though their 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: entire plan with this had been to live alone in solitude, 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: they became famous for doing so. Anna Seward and William 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: Wordsworth both wrote poems about them in the cottage that 11 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: they lived in. Byron sent them a copy of The 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: Corsair with a personal note. When that came out. Arthur Wellesley, 13 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: the Duke of Wellington, paid them a visit and even 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: stayed with them, and Queen Charlotte was enamored enough with 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: them that she convinced the King to at them a pension. 16 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: Apparently at one point they were even offered a lock 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: of Napoleon's hair. And this whole story, which in a 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: lot of ways sounds kind of like a regency romance novel, 19 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: was completely outside the bounds of what was expected or 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: allowable for women at the time, and up here at 21 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: the front, I'm just going to issue a blanket apology 22 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: for our poor pronunciation of Welsh. Yeah, definitely not a 23 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: language either of us has grown up speaking. It's a 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: tricky one if you didn't grow up speaking two l's 25 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: and the two d's. Those are easy sounds if you've 26 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: been making them your whole life. But if you are 27 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: an English speaker, you start watching these tutorials, they're like, 28 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: put your tongue behind your teeth and kind of exhale 29 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: a little bit and then make that noise while you're 30 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: saying words, And well, it's difficult. It's tricky, so brace 31 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: they We're gonna do our best, but it's not gonna 32 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: be anywhere near perfect. But to start in Eleanor Charlotte 33 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: Butler born seventeen thirty nine was the youngest daughter of 34 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: one of the most powerful and prominent families in Ireland. 35 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: Her father was Walter Butler, the Earl of Ormond, and 36 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: their family's home was Kilkenny Castle. The Butler's family seat 37 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: had been at Kilkenny Castle since the late fourteenth century. 38 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: I know sometimes there are buildings that are described as 39 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: castles that look sort of like a stone square. This 40 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: is not one of those. It is a castle with 41 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: four towers on it. Eleanor was Eleanor was quite a 42 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: bit younger than her two attractive and accomplished older sisters, 43 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: and the arrival of a younger brother also supplanted her 44 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 1: as the baby of the family before she was even 45 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: two years old. Consequently, Eleanor wound up being the most 46 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: left out of all the Butler siblings. Her two older 47 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: sisters got a much more fashionable education than she did. 48 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: They were sent to the Convent of the Blue Nuns 49 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: in Paris, while Eleanor went to an English Benedicting convent 50 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: and Cambray. When it came to the quality of education 51 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: at the convent, Eleanor went to I mean it was 52 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: a good enough education, but it was certainly no Paris, 53 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: and it did not have the same prestigious reputation is 54 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: where her sisters went. At times, it seemed like Eleanor 55 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: was literally forgotten. Correspondences from aunts and cousins routinely mentioned 56 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 1: and asked after her older sisters, while saying nothing of her. 57 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: Relatives remembered her sisters and their wills, but they passed 58 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: over Eleanor entirely, and even though from a social standpoint 59 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: it was essentially mandatory for the Butler family to find 60 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: suitable marriages for all of their daughters, they put way 61 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: more effort into her sisters than into Eleanor. While Eleanor 62 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: had had some suitors, none of them really worked out. 63 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: So by the time Eleanor was twenty nine, she was 64 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: the family spinster, and she just did not have much 65 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: to occupy her time him. That changed when she was 66 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: introduced to Sarah Ponsonby. Sarah, born in seventeen fifty five, 67 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: was from a family that was also quite prominent and 68 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: well off, although not nearly as big a deal as 69 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: the Butler's, but a series of tragedies left her both 70 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: orphaned and destitute before she was out of her teens. 71 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: Her father, Shambre Brabazon Ponsonby, was a member of parliament, 72 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: and he had been married once before marrying Sarah's mother. 73 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: He and his first wife had a son and three daughters, 74 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: but only one daughter survived infancy. This left him still 75 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: in need of a male heir, so he married Sarah's mother, 76 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: Louise A Lyons, in seventeen fifty two. Sarah was born 77 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: three years later in seventeen fifty five, and Louisa died 78 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: another three years after that. Sarah's father married once again, 79 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: as time to Mary Barker, who was an heiress and 80 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: did indeed conceive the son that he was hoping to have, 81 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: but Shambrey died before that son was worn when Sarah 82 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: was only seven. Then Sarah's stepmother remarried, but died herself 83 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: when Sarah was only thirteen. After this series of marriages 84 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: and deaths Sarah was left with no fortune of her own, 85 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: in the care of a stepfather who didn't have much 86 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: interest in a teenage girl he had acquired through his 87 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: late wife's previous husband's prior marriage, so he sent her 88 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: off to live with a cousin, Lady Elizabeth Founds, who 89 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: was called Betty, and she lived with her husband, Baronet 90 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: Sir William Founds in woodstock House, County Kilkenny, when Stockhouse 91 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: no longer stands, but it was also very large and impressive. 92 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: Sarah's introduction to Eleanor Butler came when the Foundss enrolled 93 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: her in a boarding school run by a Miss Parks. 94 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: The boarding school was much closer to kill Kenny Castle 95 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: than it was to Woodstock House. So Lady Betty Founds 96 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: wrote to Eleanor's mother, the Countess Ormand, to ask that 97 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: the Butler's keep an eye on Sarah, and this request 98 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: wound up serving two purposes quite well. It offered Lady 99 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: Betty some assurance that Sarah would make the right sorts 100 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: of friends at school and be kept away from influences 101 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: that might damage her prospects, and it offered Eleanor Butler 102 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: something to do with her time. Eleanor and Sarah became 103 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: fast friends, and for the entire five years that Sarah 104 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: was enrolled in the school, they were very close. Eleanor 105 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: had a reputation for being way too educated for a woman, 106 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: and they spent a lot of their time reading and 107 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: then discussing what they had read. The sixteen year gap 108 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: in their ages, combined with Sarah's youth, wouldn't have raised 109 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: eyebrows at the time and the way that it probably 110 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: would today. But what did raise some eyebrows was was 111 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: that they seemed to be so devoted to one another. 112 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: Close and intimate relationships were common, but the fact that 113 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: Sarah and Eleanor seemed to turn to each other to 114 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: the exclusion of anyone else was viewed with some suspicion. 115 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: It was probably during Sarah's school years that they began 116 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: to talk about how nice it would be if they 117 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: could retire somewhere together, to live quietly out in the country, 118 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: away from society. But when Sarah finished school, they were separated. 119 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: Sarah returned to Woodstock House to live with the founds Is, 120 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: while Eleanor continued to live at Kilkenny Castle, about twelve 121 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 1: miles roughly nineteen kilometers away, and even though Lady Betty 122 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: had asked the butlers to keep an eye on Sarah, 123 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: the two families weren't particularly close. For the next five years. 124 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: Sarah and Eleanor may have seen one another at social 125 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: events that both families would have attended, but they really 126 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: did not have much time together. They started to have 127 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: more contact with each other a few years later, when 128 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: Sarah was in her early twenties. Lady Betty founds health 129 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: wasn't very good and it had become obvious that Sir 130 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: William Founds was planning to take Sarah as a wife 131 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: once Lady Betty died. Sarah had so many problems with this. 132 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: She did not want to marry Sir William. She thought 133 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: he was repulsive, and she found his attention to her 134 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,119 Speaker 1: to be gross and inappropriate. And even though Lady Betty 135 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: had urged her to be kind and accommodating to Sir William, 136 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: Sarah didn't think she meant that accommodating. So Sarah felt stuck. 137 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: She didn't want to encourage Sir William, but she also 138 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: didn't want to hurt Lady Betty. In a letter to 139 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: a friend, Lucy Goddard, she wrote, I would rather die 140 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: than wound Lady Betty's heart. In these same years, Eleanor 141 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: was almost equally unhappy. By this point, her brother Robert 142 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: had converted to Protestantism. Then the family had long been Catholic, 143 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: but following some changes to the law, Catholics are being 144 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: stripped of their titles, so Robert's conversion was a matter 145 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: of necessity to try to hold onto the earldom, and 146 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: that title would be in jeopardy at various other points 147 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: in Eleanor's life for various reasons. At the same time, 148 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: Eleanor's family was getting tired of supporting their spinster daughter. 149 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: They were talking about sending her to a convent, which 150 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: would simultaneously give the family a cheaper way to keep 151 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: her fed and sheltered, and it would also maybe get 152 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: them right with God. Her parents probably also thought she 153 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 1: might be happy at a convent, after all, she'd been 154 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,479 Speaker 1: happy enough at the convent in Cambrai where she was educated. 155 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: But Eleanor did not want to go to a convent, 156 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: especially not to please the family who had always been 157 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: kind of indifferent to her, and particularly since part of 158 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: the motivation was the religion of her brother, who she 159 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: had always blamed for her being so overlooked at home. 160 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: So Sarah did not want to marry her gross guardian 161 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: when his wife, who she was very fond of, died, 162 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: and Eleanor did not want to join a convent to 163 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 1: make things financially easier on her family or assuage their 164 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: religious guilt. So the two of them decided that they 165 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: would do something about it, and we're going to talk 166 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: about that after we first pause for a little sponsor break. 167 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: Both unhappy with their situations and their future prospects, Sarah 168 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: Ponsonby and Lady Eleanor Butler started writing each other secret 169 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: correspondence around seventeen seventy six. To do this, they would 170 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: have needed help, probably from someone in the household staff, 171 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: to basically secret their letters in and out of the house. 172 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: They wrote back and forth bemoaning their circumstances and trying 173 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: to plan an escape for at least eighteen months. Then 174 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: on March seventeen seventy eight, they made their first attempt 175 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: to run away. That might seem like an odd choice 176 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: of words to describe grown women who were twenty three 177 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: and thirty nine at the time, but both women were 178 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: at this point really considered to be under the control 179 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: of their parents and guardians. They were expected to do 180 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: as they were told Mary and have children to continue 181 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: the family line, and if that for some reason absolutely 182 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: could not happen, to go to a convent. Even though 183 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: they were, at least in numeric terms, adults, the fact 184 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: that they were leaving home alone without their parents or 185 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: guardians permission or knowledge was scandalous, particularly given Eleanor's family's prominence. 186 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: Eleanor snuck out of Kilkenny Castle that night, changed into 187 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: men's clothes once she was out, and took a horse 188 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: from the stables, and she wrote it to a barn 189 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: where she and Sarah had arranged to meet. No One 190 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: at the castle noticed her absence for at least a 191 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: couple of hours. Meanwhile, Sarah climbed out the window at 192 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: Woodstock House, dressed as a man and armed with a pistol, 193 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: and she took her dog Frisk with her and proceeded 194 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: the rest of the way on foot. I love a 195 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: window escape with a puppy. From their rendezvous point, they 196 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: planned to go to Waterford and take a packet ship 197 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: that was a boat that carried mail across St. George's 198 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: Channel to Wales. This plan did not work out, though, 199 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: either they missed the boat or the one they had 200 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: planned on didn't set sail. The weather was bad and 201 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: there were rumors of pirates in the channel, so it 202 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: really could have been either. Their families, though, had started 203 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: a search as soon as they realized that the young 204 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: women were gone. The Founds and the butlers alike worried 205 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: that they had run away with men. They were simultaneously 206 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: kind of puzzled because they couldn't think of any men 207 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: that would be candidates for this. After a few hours, 208 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: some of Sir William founds as men tracked Eleanor and 209 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: Sarah down not far from Waterford and sent word back 210 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: to their respective families. Lady Betty took a coach to 211 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: retrieve them, intending to bring both Sarah and Eleanor back 212 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: to Woodstock House, but before they left the dock, a 213 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: friend of the Butler family arrived and insisted that Eleanor 214 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: be sent back with him. Over both women's serious objections, 215 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: they were sent back home separately. This left their families 216 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: to puzzle out what had happened and ideally how to 217 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: keep it from happening again. An elopement, which at the 218 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: time just meant running away and didn't necessarily have a 219 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: romantic or marriage subtext, was a huge topic for gossip 220 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: and scandal. Letters quickly circulated among both families social circles, 221 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: full of details and speculation. It was typical for mail 222 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: to be delivered several times a day, so even Lucy Goddard, 223 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: who was the subject of a lot of letters from 224 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people in this story, even Lucy Goddard, 225 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: who was away in Dublin, had heard about it within 226 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: a day or two. It was in this flurry of 227 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: letters that people started describing Eleanor and Sarah as having 228 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: a romantic friendship. Like elopement, romantic had a different connotation 229 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,359 Speaker 1: at this point, and it was one that wasn't altogether positive. 230 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: When it came to friendships, romantic often meant eccentric, whimsical, imaginative, 231 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: or in some way not really something that people talking 232 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: about it understood, So their quote romantic friendship was viewed 233 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: with some suspicion, but not nearly as much as if 234 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: they had run away with men, which would have real 235 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: in their reputation and that of their families. For a 236 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: couple of weeks after the attempted elopement, both Eleanor and 237 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: Sarah were miserable. Sarah had caught a cold, which came 238 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: along with a fever and a sore throat, and on 239 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: top of being six, she was increasingly worried and agitated 240 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: about Eleanor. Eleanor's parents had sent her to stay with 241 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: friends at Boris House, which wasn't that much farther away, 242 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: but it kept her out from underfoot while they made 243 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: preparations to send her to a convent in France, and 244 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: also tried to bribe her into going along with it 245 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: by promising to double her allowance. Sarah became even more 246 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: distressed when she heard the news that Eleanor's departure might 247 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: be imminent. The butlers announced that their decision that Eleanor 248 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: would be sent to a French convent, whether she liked 249 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: it or not, was final. On April sixteenth, seventeen seventy eight, 250 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: both Eleanor and Sarah asked to be allowed to meet 251 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: one last time, just for half an hour to say goodbye, 252 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: and that wish was ultimately granted. But this was not 253 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: really a goodbbe, is it. They agreed that they would 254 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: make one more attempt to try to be together. Eleanor 255 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: would run away again. This time she would go to 256 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: Woodstock House, and she did exactly that. On April eighteenth. 257 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: Mary Carroll, who was Lady Buddy's housemaid, snuck her in 258 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: through a window and then kept kept taking care of 259 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: her by smuggling her food from the kitchen. There's a 260 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: lot of window entry and exit, which always makes for 261 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: a good story. Uh. They managed to keep Eleanor's presence 262 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: at wood Stockhouse secret for a little while, but soon 263 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: one of Sir William's men told him that he had 264 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: learned where Eleanor was hiding, and that it was in 265 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: fact in his own house. Sir William began writing letters 266 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: to the butler's asking them to come and collect their daughter, 267 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: but those letters went unanswered. He also started trying to 268 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: convince Sarah to give up her attachment and let Eleanor 269 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: go to the convent as planned. Sarah professed that she 270 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: would live and die with miss Butler. That is a 271 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: quote in her own words. Finally, the Butlers essentially gave up, 272 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: agreeing to let Eleanor do what she wanted. She and 273 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: Sarah had at that point been ready to leave for 274 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: Wales for days, down to Sarah putting on her riding 275 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: habit every morning just in case. When they went, they 276 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: took Mary Carol with them. They went to Waterford to 277 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: sail on the package ship, as they had already planned 278 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: to do back in March. After being delayed at Waterford 279 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: for four days due to a combination of bad weather 280 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: and pirates in the Channel again, they left for Wales 281 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: on Friday May nine. We will talk about their life 282 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: in Wales after another quick sponsor break. After arriving in Wales, 283 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: Sarah Ponsonby and Eleanor Butler spent a few weeks traveling around, 284 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: essentially touring the country. This wasn't really something they could afford, 285 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: and because they'd spent some time. Being tourists, they wound 286 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: up needing to hurry to find a place that they 287 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: could actually live before winter. Also as they were doing this, 288 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: Thor William Founds died. It was of a sizar or 289 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: maybe a stroke that followed about ten days of serious illness. 290 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: Then Lady Betty Founds died three weeks after that, so 291 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: that they were traveling, Sarah and Eleanor only heard of 292 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: it much later. Sarah had an income of about eighty 293 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: pounds a year and Eleanor had maybe two hundred pounds 294 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: a year. They also both occasionally got small sums of 295 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: money from other sources, and this would have been enough 296 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: to live on if they lived frugally, but that was 297 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 1: not a skill that either of them had ever learned. Plus, 298 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: at multiple points each of them was convinced, often with 299 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: good reason, that they were going to receive more money 300 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: from a range of inheritances, annuities, and pensions. More often 301 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: than not, those expected funds fell through. As a result, 302 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: the pair always struggled with money, and they were almost 303 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: always living outside their me They did, however, find a 304 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: five room cottage that they were able to rent. It 305 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: was in thank Gothland, where they'd started their tour of 306 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: Wales on the River d It was a very simple 307 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: stone house and they named it plas News, which just 308 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: means new place or new home. They moved in in 309 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: seventeen eighty and one of their major projects for the 310 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: rest of their lives would be making it beautiful. They 311 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: had four servants, a gardener, a footman, a kitchen maid, 312 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: and Mary Carroll, who was the housekeeper. All of them 313 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: but Mary were paid. It's a little unclear why Mary, 314 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: unlike the other employees, did not receive a salary. She 315 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: was allowed to keep tips from people who visited them, 316 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 1: and that number of people did grow over the years. 317 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: And when she died, she left all her money to Sarah, 318 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: so even though they weren't paying her, she apparently did 319 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: have enough of an income to be able to save 320 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: it up and buy property. I wish I could find 321 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: more detail about that, but I could not. The nebulous 322 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: finances of Mary Carroll well, and she was incredibly devoted 323 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: to both of them. It's I feel like there's a 324 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: whole other story there, and at this point in time 325 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: probably impossible to get the details of it. So Sarah 326 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: and Eleanor had been hoping for solitude when they decided 327 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: to retire away together, and at first then Gothen was 328 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: even more lonesome than they had hoped. There was barely 329 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: a town there. Both women had a lot more education 330 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: and had come from a higher rank than most of 331 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: the people around them, but they did gradually begin to 332 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: make friends. By sight two people were describing their little 333 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: home in the surrounding garden as very romantic, and at 334 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: that point that was a term starting to shed some 335 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: of the negative associations that had previously been used to 336 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: describe their relationship. Eleanor's father died in seventeen eighty three 337 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: and she was not mentioned in the will. There was 338 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: a huge and bitter back and forth with her brother 339 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: that secured her two hundred pounds a year and a 340 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,959 Speaker 1: lump sum of five hundred pounds to pay off debts. 341 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: There would be a similar situation when her mother died 342 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: and she was left one hundred pounds, but wrote to 343 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: her sister to ask for more, which her sister turned down. Typically, 344 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: their letters to ask for money came off as accusatory 345 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: and backhanded, which might be why they were so often 346 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: turned down. Yeah, they often started out with a tone 347 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: of you have always been terrible to me, and I 348 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: have some money, though may I have some cash. As 349 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: the years progressed, Eleanor and Sarah continued to read and 350 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: study extensively. They learned multiple languages. They compiled enormous lists 351 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: of books that they had read together. They also walked 352 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: a lot. Even though they didn't have a lot of money, 353 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: they tried to help people around them who were less fortunate, 354 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: setting a goal of giving away ten percent of their 355 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: income to charity every year, and they put a lot 356 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: of work into plast nudds, adding Gothic embellishments, expanding and 357 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: making one of the rooms a suitable guest room, which 358 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: they named the State Apartment. At one point, oak carvings 359 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: came into fashion, and they went wild collecting them. They 360 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: and the gardener also constantly improved the garden and the ground. 361 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: Their monograms contained both of their initials, and they signed 362 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: all of their letters jointly. Their journals chronicle all the 363 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: mundane details of their life together and also express a 364 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: deep and tender love for each other. For example, in 365 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: one entry, Eleanor, writing about one of her very frequent migraines, said, 366 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: quote rose at eight after a tedious night spent in 367 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: coughing and with a most dreadful headache. My dearest, my 368 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: kindest love, did not sleep even for one moment the 369 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: entire night, but lay beside me, watching and lamenting my illness, 370 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: and soothing by her tenderness the distressing pain of my 371 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: head simultaneously. There was so much gossip about them back 372 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: in Ireland as well as elsewhere. People speculated extensively about 373 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: what they were doing and what had led them to 374 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 1: throw off all of their family obligations and the incomes 375 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: that would have come along with them to live in 376 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: a remote part of Whales. As a side note, the 377 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: idea that they dressed as men persists today, but that 378 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: really came around after they lived, and it was mostly 379 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: because they had short hair and they wore hats, both 380 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: of which were following a French fashion, and they were 381 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,719 Speaker 1: not so that they would look like men. Yeah, if 382 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: you see there are a few of great engravings of them, 383 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: and in some of them they're wearing their clothing. They 384 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: have the short cropped hair, which you see other portraits 385 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: of women in the same time who have short cropped hair, 386 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: and it's sort of top hat looking hat on and 387 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: if you start just at the top and stop at 388 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: the shoulders, you might think that's a kind of masculine appearance, 389 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: but then below that is a dress. So yeah, that 390 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: was definitely going on in France. Yes, they they and 391 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: also they did not spend a ton of money on 392 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: their wardrobes, so dis gossip about them even made the 393 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: papers in see the General Evening Post published an article 394 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: about them called Extraordinary Female Affection. And even though some 395 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: of the information in the article was actually accurate, not 396 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: all of it was, and it was heavily threaded through 397 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: with an undertone that their relationship was unnatural, that they 398 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: were lesbians, even though that term hadn't taken on that connotation. 399 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: Yet that same undertone of being quote unnatural would even 400 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: be President Eleanor's obituary when it ran in The Gentleman's magazine. 401 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: In spite of this suspicion, as we noted at the 402 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: top of the show, the two women became famous more 403 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: or less for simply being who they were. Their home 404 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: was on the way from London to Ireland, and it 405 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: became something of a tourist attraction. They eventually got a 406 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: lot of visitors, to the point that Eleanor would write 407 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,239 Speaker 1: things like quote when will we be truly alone? In 408 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: her journal, and their names and manner of living were 409 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: well known even among people who did not personally visit. 410 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: They were basically famous in the regency. They found a 411 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: little bit more financial stability when they were able to 412 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: buy Plassnews in eighteen nineteen. Their ability to do this 413 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: is often credited to Mary Carol, who died in eighteen 414 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: o nine and as we said earlier, left all of 415 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: her money to Sarah that was actually less one shilling 416 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: for each of her siblings, provided that they came from 417 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: Ireland to collect it. It's almost certain though that they 418 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: got money from somewhere else as well, but it's a 419 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: little unclear as to exactly where. Later in her life, 420 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: Eleanor developed cataracts in an eye inflammation, and she eventually 421 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: lost her sight. She died on June two eighty nine. 422 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: She and Sarah had become such a fixture in Glan 423 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: Gothlin that a whole community went into mourning. Word also 424 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: began to spread about a number of supernatural happenings attributed 425 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 1: to her passing. One of the local farmers cows had 426 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,719 Speaker 1: all black calves, a stray dog that arrived at their 427 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: home on the day of the funerals, started howling inconsolably 428 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: when Sarah tried to give one of Eleanor's books away. 429 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: Because so much of their lives together had been spent 430 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: reading and learning and walking in general generally being pretty 431 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: solitary apart from receiving so many visitors, A lot of 432 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: Sarah's day to day routine stayed pretty much the same 433 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: after Eleanor's death, except that she no longer had Eleanor 434 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: to share it with. She didn't live very much longer, though, 435 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: she died on December nine, thirty one. Six months after 436 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: their deaths Plas Nue was sold and their belongings were 437 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: auctioned off. The proceeds were enough to pay their debts 438 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: and set up annuities for their surviving household staff. Today, 439 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: Plas Nue is a museum that is open seas Anally. 440 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: I thought we would end their story, which I find 441 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: to be lovely. It's kind of a heavenly idea. Let's 442 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: live out in the country together and read books and 443 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: walk around. All right, Maybe not for Holly, it would 444 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: not be I need um, I need a lot more 445 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: takeout options than that would offer. Critically. Well, but you 446 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: would have a staff of four people who would be 447 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: cooking for I need more than the country life offers 448 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: in terms of um stimulation. Okay, yeah, I'm a city 449 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: I love to walk so much that as long as 450 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: I can walk, I'm pretty happy about it. But anyway, 451 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: I thought we would end by reading Wordsworth's sonnet, A 452 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: stream to mingle with your favorite d along the veil 453 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 1: of meditation flows so styled by those fierce Briton's pleased 454 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: to see in nature's face the expression of pose or 455 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: happily There some pious hermit chose to live and die 456 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: the peace of heaven, his aim to whom the wild 457 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: sequestered region owes at this late day. It's sanctifying name. 458 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: Glenn kak Rock in the Cambrian tongue. In hours the 459 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: veil of friendship. Let this spot be named, where faithful 460 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: to a low roofed cot on Diva's banks, you have 461 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: abode so long, sisters in love, a love allowed to 462 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: climb even on this earth above the reach of time. 463 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: I find those ladies to be very dear. It's a 464 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: very charming little story. Well, and I stumbled upon it 465 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: completely by accident. I was I was looking into a 466 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: completely different topic, which was Radcliff Hall, who we may 467 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: still talk about sometime later. Um. And in this cycle 468 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: of of pulling together resources on Radcliffe Hall all, I've 469 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: fell down this rabbit hole about the origin of the 470 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: term Boston marriage, which is a basically term for two 471 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: women who decided to make their lives together without the 472 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: company of men. Uh. And a number of people point 473 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: to these two ladies is like maybe the first Boston marriage. 474 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: I don't know if I would go that far. And 475 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: it's also unclear when exactly the term Boston marriage was coined. Um. 476 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: But then I said, you know what I think I 477 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: want to talk about instead of Radcliffe Hall right now, 478 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: to these two ladies. I love them, Sarah and eleanor 479 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: out in the country. Uh. Do you have listener mail 480 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: for us? I do? Uh this listener mail. This listener 481 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: mail is from Susie, and Susie wrote after our podcast 482 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: that was the Six Impossible episodes on Soldiers, Snipers and Spies. Uh, 483 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: and Susi says, I was interested to hear your most 484 00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: recent episode regarding Six Impossible Soldiers, in particular, you're mentioned 485 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: of Vivian Bullwinkle. I came from a very small town 486 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: in South Australia, and we're all well versed in the 487 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: story of the winer Brook as one of the nurses 488 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: killed was a local woman, Elaine Balfour Ogilvie. I take 489 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: my information from the Australian War Memorial Site. Sister. Elaine 490 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: Balfour Ogilvie was born in nineteen twelve and Renmark, South Australia, 491 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: a town located on the River Murray. The family was 492 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: well known in the district and her father was highly 493 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: respected for his war service. After school, Elaine trained as 494 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: a nurse. In nineteen forties, she enlisted in the Australian Army, 495 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: becoming the district's first Army nurse. She was soon appointed 496 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: to the fourth Casualty Clearing Station of the Australian Army 497 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: Nursing Service and in February ninety one embarked on the 498 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: Queen Mary for Singapore. She worked in various places in 499 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: the Melee Peninsula along with the ninth Field Ambulance, before 500 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: being based with the fourth CCS in Lampi, South Johore. 501 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: After the fall of Singapore, Elaine was one of the 502 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: sixty five Australia and nurses who left aboard the viner 503 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: Brock after it's bombing by the Japanese. Elane swum to 504 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: safety on Banka Island, beeting from a river town. She 505 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: was a strong swimmer. Elaine was among the twenty two 506 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: Australian nurses who remained on the beach to tend the 507 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: wounded after their discovery by the Japanese, who ordered them 508 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: into the ocean and ocean before opening fire on them. 509 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: Elane Ogilvie was one of the twenty one nurses killed. 510 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: She was thirty years old. The children's section of the 511 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: local library is named after Elane and a beautiful photo 512 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: of her hangs on the wall there. Having just commemorated 513 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: our Anzac Day, a particular emphasis was placed on Elane's story. 514 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: In particular, it was discussed at length at my daughter's school, 515 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: so a new generation of children are now aware of 516 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: her sacrifice. Thank you for bringing her story via Nurse 517 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: bowl Winkle to light. We tend to think that nothing 518 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: much of note happens here in the country, but your 519 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: story shows that everyone has a story to tell. I 520 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: could hear the emotion in your voice as you spoke. 521 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: It was a very touching and I had a lump 522 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: in my throat as well. Up up the good works, Susie. 523 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Susie. I never would have heard 524 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: of this particular woman without getting your note. Yeah very cool. 525 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: Uh So if you would like to write to us 526 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: about this or any other podcast or history podcasts at 527 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,959 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. We're also on Facebook at 528 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: Facebook dot com slash miss in history and on Twitter 529 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: at miss in History. Are tumbler is at miss in 530 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,479 Speaker 1: history dot tumbler dot com, and we're on Pinterest at 531 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: pinterest dot com slash missed in History. 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