1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show. My name 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: is Matt, my name is Nolan. They called me Ben. 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: We're joined as always with our superproducer, all mission controlled 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: decond Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: Today's episode is about power. It's often said power corrupts, 10 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: and you know, we've all seen that happen in one 11 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: way or another. You might remember a kid who got 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: a little despotic when they became hall monitor, or kept 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: an eye on the class while the teacher was gone. 14 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: There are no shortages the stories of local politicians who 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: dipped her finger into the sugar jar of public coffers. 16 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,279 Speaker 1: But what happens when the people at the very top 17 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: reaches of law enforcement start breaking the same laws, these 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: specific same laws they are meant to enforce. That's our 19 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: story today, the still unfolding tale of Charles McGonagall Charlie 20 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: to his friends. For twenty two years he served the 21 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: FBI and according to authorities, he began serving other masters 22 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: somewhere along the way. Here are the facts. Yes, we 23 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: first learned about old Charlie here when we did a 24 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: quick piece of strange news on him, because I think 25 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: it was it's something's been going up for a long time. 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: But it made the news because he was formally being 27 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: charged with some stuff and not good stuff. No, he 28 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: wasn't charged with being like the dopest guy at the 29 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: roller skating rink, not this time. That was years ago. 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: That was in his past. It's true. So what was 31 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: interesting about this case specifically Charlie Charles McGonagall. Not a 32 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: whole lot of information out there in the public sphere, 33 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: but we do we can't ascertain some basics. He was 34 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: born in the late sixties, in nineteen sixty eight, based 35 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: on what we found in Ohio, and he went to 36 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins, a prestigious university, where he obtained a bachelor's 37 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: degree in business administration in nineteen ninety. It's funny, I 38 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: always think of Johns Hopkins for their medical school, but 39 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: they also have other disciplines represented there, and business is 40 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: one of them. He got that in nineteen ninety. Then 41 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: in November of nineteen eighty four, he got married to 42 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: Pamela Fox McGonagall. Cool middle name, yeah, total Fox. Yeah, 43 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: I like that, right, that's a cool name. But right now, 44 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 1: as we record, this guy is not in jail. He's 45 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: not in prison as we record on March third, twenty 46 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: twenty three, he is living in Chevy Chase, Maryland. He 47 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: joined the FBI in nineties, and he also continued to 48 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: pursue his education. In twenty twelve, he got a master's degree, 49 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: also from Johns Hopkins. As you mentioned, Nole, and this 50 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: might seem weird to people, but it's not super unusual 51 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: in a ton of careers, Folks will commit themselves to 52 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: a brutal schedule to pursue higher education because it it 53 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: furthers your job prospects. Right, And in some reaches of government, 54 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: there's actually a tiered system of base pay that rises 55 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: depending on your level of education. So you know, your 56 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: schedule sucks for a while, but it is a good 57 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: investment in your time, especially if you're ambitious, and as 58 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: will come to find, Charlie is nothing if not ambitious. 59 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: May I quickly derail us and ask a silly question, 60 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: the chicken or the egg question? What came first? Chevy 61 00:03:53,320 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: Chase the actor or chevy Chase Maryland. Chevy Chase Maryland. 62 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: Do you think it was chevy Chase named after the 63 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: city or is it it's a coincidence? Is the stage name? 64 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: Is Chevy's name actually Chevy or was that as a 65 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: nicknames as a result of this place? And did he 66 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: have any association with him? His real name is Cornelius 67 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: Crane Chase. Okay, one would imagine that it was a 68 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,239 Speaker 1: it was a tip of the hat to old chevy 69 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: Chase Maryland. Sorry, it's funny. I only first found out 70 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: about chevy Chase Maryland from fallout to the one that 71 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: takes place in the DC area, and I thought it 72 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: was made up. I thought it was some kind of 73 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: jokey reference to chevy Chase the actor, But not the case. 74 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: If any of you fellow conspiracy realists were wondering the 75 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: same thing, Yeah, it's a real place. And as our 76 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: pal Paul just said, I don't know if you'll put 77 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: down the air Paul. Paul pointed out that chevy Chase 78 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: Maryland is a pretty prestigious and wealthy area of Maryland, 79 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: so this guy is living in a good neighborhood as 80 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: we speak. He in his career over twenty two years. 81 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: He went on to serve in various parts of the FBI. 82 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: He was always moving up New York, Cleveland, DC, Baltimore. 83 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, there was quite a coupe. Toward the 84 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: end of his career, he was named the Special Agent 85 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: in charge of the Counterintelligence Division for the New York 86 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: Field Office. Yes, again, we know only an outfit like 87 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: the US government would make a word like counterintelligence and 88 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: take it seriously without realizing that if you if you 89 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: don't know what they do, it sounds like they're the 90 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: dumb squad. They're very much not. They're very much not. 91 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: They're not dumb people. Well, let's talk about what counterintelligence 92 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: means for the FBI. So we've talked a lot in 93 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: the past about how the CIA is the intelligence part 94 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,679 Speaker 1: of the United States that operates outside of the US. 95 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: So they're the ones that actually put out feelers and 96 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: will go into another country conduct intelligence in that country, 97 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: or you know, whether that is intelligence or counterintelligence in 98 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 1: that country. The FBI handles all the stuff that happens 99 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: inside the territory. So FBI counterintelligence is basically keeping a 100 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: lookout for any other spies that may come into the US, 101 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: either with diplomatic cover. That's often what happens, especially in 102 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: New York because of the UN and they just try 103 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: and see, oh, is that diplomat actually a diplomat or 104 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: is that some KGB agent or something like that. But 105 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 1: like the etymology of the term intelligence even is a 106 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: little veiled, right, because I mean intelligence, you know, in 107 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: the way we know it Webster's wise means you know, 108 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: smarts means the ability to ascertain information and some level 109 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: of deductive reasoning power. But in this case, intelligence refers 110 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: to gathering information, right, So there's a there's a connection. 111 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: But counterintelligence is sort of like an opposition and all 112 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: equal and opposite reaction to those gathering intelligence on you. Right, 113 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: you just gotta take it literally the right. This is 114 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: um I guess the way I would put it for 115 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: an analogy is the FBI and a counterintelligence capability is 116 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: largely the goalie of a big, big soccer game and 117 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: the field is the rest of the world. So they're 118 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: trying to keep the balls from getting into the net 119 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: that is US activity, but because there has all the 120 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: important stuff in it, right, But this net also bites 121 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: back because part of a counterintelligence operation, even though it 122 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: could it's largely defensive. Part of it is the ability 123 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: to not just identify foreign actors, but potentially turn them 124 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: towards your own purposes. Everybody does this. It's a glass planet. 125 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: There are no real quote unquote good guys, but there 126 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: are rules. And that's where Charlie goes wrong. So he 127 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: works on some high level, high sensitivity stuff, the kind 128 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: of thing that you don't hear about until it's sewed 129 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: up right until the doj is is pretty much happy 130 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: and things. They have a case. So for two years 131 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: he's a big wheel in the New York Field Office. 132 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: He's in charge of counterintelligence in one of the most 133 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: sensitive intelligence areas in the country. When he retires, he's 134 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: got a great, distinguished career. Like a lot of people 135 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: with his level of expertise, he goes to the private sector. Again, 136 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: this is neither illegal nor necessarily unusual. We see this 137 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: where you make more money, right, you make more money. 138 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: We see as a natural progression of careers. Now, is 139 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: it a good thing that that revolving door exists? I 140 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: would say no, but it is definitely a door that 141 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: people use often we should point out that he retired 142 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, just so he only he only spent 143 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: around two years as that special Asian in charge of counterintelligence, 144 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: right right, And that was a culmination of his career. 145 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: And let's take a second to say, you know, first, 146 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: he was he was very successful. He ended up involved 147 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: with a lot of high profile cases, some of which 148 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: we reported on in this show in the past wiki leaks. 149 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: Let's see he busted. There were some stories that were 150 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: really big at the time that a lot of people 151 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: forgot about, like he, uh, he busted the Clinton administration's 152 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: National Security advisor, Sandy Berger for stealing classified documents. And 153 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: then this is very he did like spy movie stuff, 154 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: like he led the search for a Chinese mole inside 155 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: the CIA. He was he was doing he was doing 156 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: his job, and he was he could be really great 157 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: to work with if he considered you a peer or 158 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: a superior. He knew when to lay on the butter. 159 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: But he was also kind of a lot of colleagues 160 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: we found quoted anonymously said he was kind of a jerk. 161 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: If he thought he was you were working for him, 162 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: which tracks it makes me biased because I have no 163 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: respect for people like that. If you can't be nice 164 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: to a waiter, then you're not worth by time. I 165 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: feel the exact same way. Yeah, And you can really 166 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: tell a lot about a person's character about how they 167 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: treat those working under them, because you know, we all 168 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: three of us have managed people and headed up teams, 169 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: and I think we all every single step of the 170 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: way try to be self aware and treat people with respect. 171 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: And that's also how you get the best work out 172 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:44,719 Speaker 1: of people, and not even as a flex or as 173 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: some sort of manipulation. It's just facts. And typically if 174 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: you treat people like crap, they're gonna rebel against you, 175 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: whether outwardly or you know, under the table. Kind of 176 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: the way he's described reminds me a lot of that 177 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: fairly new television show called The Recruit that's based around 178 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: an FBI agent who's really an attorney but functioning as 179 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: as an agent, and it reminds me of the way 180 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 1: that FBI in general is described. The work atmosphere at 181 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: that outfit, basically, if that resenting successes of other people, 182 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: making sure that you're the one who gets the credit 183 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: if somebody under you, you know, does something, and again 184 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: it's just a fictionalized television show. But it just really 185 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: reminds me of the way it's depicted in it. Yeah, yeah, 186 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: let's talk about those descriptions. So one former colleague lies, 187 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: colleagues are very careful to be anonymous because of the 188 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: way making public statements works. One colleague said that McGonagall 189 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 1: was quote an egotistical narcissist who frequently screamed at subordinates 190 00:11:55,520 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: and resented the success of others, another unfortunately common thing 191 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: in many industries. And what is more, this is more 192 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: dangerous though, because this is the FBI. They also say 193 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: that McGonagall seemed to have or could have used his 194 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: professional influence to further his political ideology, which is something 195 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: you're not supposed to do in the FBI. In case 196 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: anyone was wondering, there's a great article at a place 197 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: called spy Talk by Jeff Stein who points out that 198 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: McGonagall is suspected of being part of this unofficial clique 199 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: in the FBI New York office who wanted to prevent 200 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton from winning the twenty sixteen presidential election, and 201 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: that he was probably part of this group that pressure 202 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: the FBI Director James Comey to investigate you know, the 203 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: Clinton emails just a few days before the election officially 204 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: kicked off, which was a huge deal. Which was a 205 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: huge deal, not only the fact of what it was, 206 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: but also that it was happening at that time. I 207 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: remember how much that affected my thinking in twenty sixteen. Yeah, 208 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: and at the same time, you know, obviously there were 209 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: other forces out who wanted to influence the election in 210 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: an undue way, Russia being the primary right. And then 211 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: there's still there's still questions about Wiki leaks and how 212 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: they decided to release what they did and when. But 213 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: you know how, let's stay with spy talk because once 214 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: some of these sources get the badge of anonymity, they're 215 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: way more open about they say stuff they wouldn't say 216 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: what their names attached, kind of like on the Internet. 217 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: This guy's describing Charlie and says his peers thought highly 218 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: of him, and his managers did, but a lot of 219 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: people that worked for him couldn't stand him because he 220 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: was such a dickhead. He just treated people really bad. Geez, 221 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: this is not us say, we've never worked with Charlie mcgonigall. 222 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: But he was successful. He went private industry, he goes 223 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: he becomes a vice president at a place called Brookfield Properties, 224 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: which is a big deal real estate company, and just 225 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: last year, in twenty twenty two, I think he was 226 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: hired as the global head of security for a place 227 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: called am En Resorts. Am An very a'm on, I believe, yeah, 228 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: but I maybe a most pronouncing this place is controversial 229 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: because of some murky links to a Russian, a guy 230 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: who's a big deal in Russia who is not Putin 231 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: and Oligarch. You may say, you might, some might and right, 232 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: but there's always more to this story, right. So somewhere 233 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: along the way, members of the counterintelligence community, which is very, 234 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: very close knit, they started to question his allegiance, and 235 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: this story dropped for us in like twenty twenty two, 236 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: but there was something in the wind by twenty eighteen. 237 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: So as far back as you said, Ben is twenty 238 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: eighteen the British were taking some keeping some tabs on 239 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: McGonagall and noticed that he was making some very taking 240 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: rather some very suspicious meetings with a Russian national stead 241 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: of a red flag. Considering the circumstances, even as far back, 242 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: I mean, we've always been a little tenuous with the Russians. 243 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: I suppose, you know, as far back as the Cold 244 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: War and the Iron curtains, there's always a little bit 245 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: of suspicion that comes into play when their secret meetings 246 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: happening with Russian nationals. And in January of twenty twenty three, 247 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: Charles McGonagall was arrested. This is just a couple of 248 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: years later after the observation of this meeting on charges 249 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: of money laundering, making false statements in mandatory disclosures to 250 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: the FBI, violating US sanctions on Russia, because those are 251 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: still ironclad and more. Yeah, and we should we should 252 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: mention here. We talked, Ben talked about the glass world, 253 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: where everybody's doing this kind of counterintelligence. It just should 254 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: be noted that the British intelligence was checking out the 255 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: Russian person whom McGonagall was meeting, and that's how it happened. 256 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: And we talk a lot about five eyes and things 257 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: like that, where there's a lot of intelligence sharing, not 258 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: all of the intelligence, mind you never all of the intelligence, 259 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: but quite a bit is shared between a lot of 260 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: these Western countries. And I'm assuming that's kind of what 261 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: happened here. There's back channeling to the FBI after they 262 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: notice that's a little weird. Oh boy, I'm frightfully afraid 263 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: then may be a fox and the in house. Yeah, 264 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: the FBI believe the British. They claimed there was a 265 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: traitor in their midst. So what happened, We'll tell you 266 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsor and we're back. That 267 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: was hopefully Aman Resorts. Here's where it gets crazy. As 268 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: much as this sounds like something out of a movie, 269 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: it looked it looked to be the case that McGonagall 270 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: have been turned. He has not been convicted yet. That's 271 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: very important to say. We'll probably say it a couple 272 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: times in this episode. But the authorities, pretty much all 273 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: of them, DJ, FBI, you name it. They seem pretty 274 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: convinced this guy was a spy or at the very 275 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: least corrupt and had that super important intelligence information in 276 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: his head or access to it potentially, you know, by 277 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: means of a hard drive or a piece of paper 278 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing, and he could be sharing 279 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: that stuff, right, And let's think a moment to say, Okay, 280 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: something that spy movies get wrong, like works of fiction 281 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: always get wrong, is is this And it's kind of 282 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: disappointed thing. It's not great for movies. But intelligence, especially 283 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: high level or secret intelligence, is often what we would 284 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: call perishable, as it has a short shelf life, you know, 285 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: like stuff from the organic aisle of the grocery store. 286 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: So an otherwise just a window in which it is useful. 287 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: And then outside of that is it is basically not yeah, correct, 288 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: and so but this means that there's another kind of 289 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: resource people like this can offer, and that is connections, 290 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: that's influence. Connections are not necessarily perishable. They can be burned, 291 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: just like a persona. So we don't like, we'll get 292 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: into it, well, we'll get into what he was trading 293 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: back and forth, but it seems to be it seems 294 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: to be a little bit more like connections and intros 295 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: and influence than it does to be actionable intelligence on 296 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 1: the ground stuff. But his professional life definitely made him 297 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: aware of tradecraft in a way that many many average 298 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: people would would never You just wouldn't know, you wouldn't 299 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: know what to ask. He ran one hundred and fifty 300 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: FBI agents in New York and they were tasked with 301 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: remember we said the net bites back, they were tasked 302 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: with shadowing foreign operatives the way the British were following 303 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: this Russian contact and then turning those folks if they 304 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: could in despise for the US. Now, this doesn't mean 305 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: they're getting someone from like the Russian embassy and saying, hey, 306 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: we know you're not the it guy and now you 307 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: work for us. It could be something as seemingly innocuous 308 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: as we know you work at this consulting firm, right, 309 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: and we think you have a side gig and we 310 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: want to give you another one. Or it could be 311 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: we know that you are, yes, going to an academic 312 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: conference here, or you're selling Turkish rugs or whatever, but 313 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: we also know about those other meetings you had at 314 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: the dunkin Donuts. Well, access is the name of the 315 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: game here, right, I mean access to individuals, relationships, you know, 316 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: with folks that you can kind of blend in with 317 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: and and get information, whether it's nefarious in terms of 318 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: the knowledge of that person, or whether it's just you're 319 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: kind of got your ears open, you know, and you're 320 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, working in these circles. So when they can 321 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: identify someone that maybe is willing to play ball, who 322 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: has that kind of access, Ding ding ding, Yeah, you know, 323 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: I hope you had a great time at the conference. 324 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: Why don't you when you when you get back to Turkey, 325 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: you know, why don't you just let us know if 326 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: any of your colleagues are making breakthroughs and things we 327 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: would find of interest. Right, it's like an interest wink wink, 328 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: you know, and they're talking to a young nuclear scientist 329 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: or something. So this means McGonagle knows about this kind 330 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: of stuff. He's aware of it, and he's the top dog. 331 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: He's got the catbird seat. Most people only think about 332 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: this kind of world or industry when you watch cool 333 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: spy movies, you know, the James Bond stuff, Tinker Taylor, 334 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: Soldier spy, which is great. It holds up. So this guy, 335 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: if he ever, if he does get convicted, it's kind 336 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: of like he's some dude who worked at a bank 337 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: for years and years and years before deciding to rob it, 338 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: so he knows how the bank works already, which means 339 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: and this is the thing that keeps tripping me up. 340 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: This means that he should have, by all logic and reason, 341 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: he should have had a better than average likelihood of 342 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: conspiring successfully and getting away with it. That's what makes 343 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen even more confusing. Like we said, the British 344 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: clocked at first he meets a rushing in London. Apparently, 345 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: despite the fact that this is the same year he 346 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: retired from the FBI, he did not know this contact 347 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: was already being surveiled by the Brits. Like you said, Matt, 348 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: they'll share intelligence, but never all of it. And this 349 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: something small, something small like that. Okay, but you know 350 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: this known Russian person we've been watching is in London 351 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: right now, we're watching that person. There's no reason to 352 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: share that information with you know, with the United States, 353 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: the location and activities of an oligarch in your country. 354 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,239 Speaker 1: That doesn't make you know, that doesn't make a lot 355 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: of sense. But when one of your former operatives or 356 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: former you know, heads of an intelligence agency is meeting 357 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: with your target, yeah, you're gonna you're gonna take note 358 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: one anonymous source. Again, these guys kind of loosen their 359 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: ties when they're anonymous. What anonymous source would later remark, 360 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: what the was he thinking? Because years of expence, just 361 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: coffee spraying, years of experience running counterintelligence opts means that 362 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: McGonagall should have known this London encounter would attract notice. London, 363 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: like New York, is highly surveiled in this world because 364 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: there are so many centers of finance and you know, 365 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: halls of state power there. And look, you know, this 366 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: guy lives in the United States. He lives in a 367 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: nice neighborhood, but he lives in a country separated by 368 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: two huge oceans. You don't just the idea that you 369 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: would travel across the Atlantic for a meeting or series 370 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: of meetings implies that it was more than just an 371 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: accidental run in, you know, or a casual acquaintance like, oh, oldleag, 372 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: fancy seeing you here. I'm always saying that. I'm always 373 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: saying that because I have a pretty good Russian friend 374 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: whose name is olig So wow, so that's a shout 375 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: out to you. But oh no, no, no, he's not 376 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: an olig Arc. Okay, he's not an Oligarc. So he 377 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: does live in London. Though, now that I think about it, 378 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: I should text him. Yeah, I don't meet in a 379 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: park or something. Look, um, do you think he used 380 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: his cell phone to arrange that? Probably not his personal 381 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: cell phone or a burner or some kind of encrypted guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 382 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: you don't. You don't just make a phone call to 383 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: your buddy who happens to be an oligarch and go 384 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: meet him if your former head of FBI counterintelligence. We 385 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: don't know who the Russian contact was yet, but it probably, 386 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm guessing it probably would have been an agent of 387 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: an olagark for an interest you know when we're we're 388 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: going to talk about here in a minute. Yeah, handler 389 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: fixer for for a bigger cat. But this means like 390 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: these sources are saying, Okay, this meeting just doesn't just happen. 391 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: So in our mind, based on the knowledge we have 392 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: is the FBI, this means that we probably stumbled upon 393 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: an extended relationship that this was not there for contact, 394 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: and mcgonagal by that logic, had probably been in contact 395 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: before he retired from the FBI. We don't know the 396 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: exact month he retired in twenty eighteen, but we do 397 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: know this meeting in London happened in twenty eighteen, so 398 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 1: it may have even been a case where you know, 399 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: he gets out and he says, hello, buddy, don't worry, 400 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: I got out. You know, I'm a freeman, right, I'm 401 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: open to other opportunities. Yeah. But the British were like, oh, wait, 402 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: isn't there an Embassy, like, right around the corner, maybe 403 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: we should tell the US guys this happened. So that's 404 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: what they do, right, Yeah, they go to the attache 405 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: at the US Embassy and they're like, look, we know 406 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: Fred is not really the IT guy and we need 407 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: to talk to him. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. The FBI, 408 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: I think, is pretty public with their legal attach a stuff. 409 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: They don't need to be all skull duggery issue about it. 410 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, the FBI said, okay, we believe you, and 411 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: thanks for telling us. We're going to open an investigation 412 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: into McGonagall. And in twenty twenty one, just a few 413 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: years back, US attorneys conspired they secretly got a grand 414 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: jury together to look at the evidence, and the Justice 415 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: Department had to admit that a grand jury was happening, 416 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: but they refused to say what the grand jury was 417 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: investigating or whether it remained ongoing, which is a brilliant 418 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: psychic I mean, they have to, but it's also brilliant 419 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: from a PSI op standpoint, because if you have done 420 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: anything that you're worried about and you're just here there's 421 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: a grand jury doing something, you know what I mean, 422 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: just make that announcement and watch everybody right right, open 423 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: your safe of fake passports and get your bag of 424 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: loose diamonds out. I say, love it, or you're like 425 00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: coffee can if you're a betterical song. Yeah, yeah, whatever 426 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: it is. It's like a you know, one of those 427 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: cookie tins. Then everyone keeps like sewing stuff in. You know. 428 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: I saw one of those with cookies in at one time, 429 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,959 Speaker 1: and it blew my mind. Those are good cookies, man, 430 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: those short bread cookies. Pretty like those. I like them. 431 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: I like them all right, I mean I don't. I'm 432 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: not a very sort of curk thing. Yeah, I'm pretty 433 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: sure those cookies had PCP and them cool. You don't 434 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: put them in there unless they got some, unless they're wet, 435 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: wet cookies. They come, they come in their own little, tiny, dainty, 436 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: little little cup, you know, cup that's let's go, let's 437 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: go do a ride along King Kong. And got nothing 438 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: on Matt, right, So, uh, Matt's childhood PCP experiences aside. 439 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: That's why you are the way you are, which is awesome. Yeah, 440 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: which is awesome. This is not us condoning smoking wet, 441 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: but let us know about your experiences out. It's funny, David, 442 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: Let's keep it um, let's keep out, Let's keep it 443 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: in the part where sail escape it. So uh okay. 444 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: So here's how we know about this. Earlier Business Insider, 445 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: which has done a series of great reports on this, 446 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: they managed to obtain a witness subpoena that shed light 447 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: on what they were doing. And at the time, the 448 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: subpoena was asking this witness for records about mcgonagall's interaction 449 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: with a consulting firm. And consulting firms can be very 450 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: shady called spectrum risk solutions. Yeah, the more innocuous the name, 451 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: the more shady the dealings. And we should say it's 452 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: security like it's it's based in security. Right. You have 453 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: a former FBI agent who has a lot of security 454 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: experience who's now moving into the private sector. And then 455 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: that thing like what is that entity doing? M Yeah, 456 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: because security, like consulting, can also mean many many different things. 457 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: But on the if we didn't look past the surface, 458 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: it makes sense if you're a private firm, you want 459 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: to hire somebody with experience, right, and they have experience 460 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: in one of the best intelligence counterintelligence operations on the planet. 461 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: So this is this is a good get for you. 462 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: But it turns out that Spectrum was probably doing some 463 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: shady proxy stuff to help with some introductions that we 464 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: don't have to get into, but we do know they 465 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: involved operatives of a guy we're about to meet, Olag 466 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: dere Paska, not my pal, like different dude, much older, 467 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: much older than my pal, but not to be confused 468 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: with Olaf the delightful singing snowman from the Frozen film franchise. 469 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: Yeah no, absolutely not that guy. That guy is Pakistan 470 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: Intelligence through and through. Everybody knows he's with I SI, 471 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: but I'd say it rewatch it, Okay. So it's there, 472 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: It's all the clues are there. It's there if you 473 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: look for it. So McDonald, let's talk about the charges, 474 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: all right. What's he actually charged with? And again he 475 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: hasn't been convicted. So McGonagall was actually charged in two 476 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: separate corruption cases involving illegal cash receipts and money laundering, 477 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: the first for allegedly taking secret payments of more than 478 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty five thousand dollars from a former 479 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: Albanian intelligence agent on behalf of a political party there. 480 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: He also apparently kept a framed photo of him with 481 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: Albanian Prime Minister Edi Rama. I'm laughing because it's just 482 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: that's a weird thing to do in general. You know, 483 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: you got to really stand for somebody if you're walking 484 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: around with a framed photo of you and them, like 485 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: that's not a member of your family. It's sort of 486 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: like those people that have pictures of them and like 487 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: George Bush on their mantle. But this is even a 488 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,239 Speaker 1: step further than that, isn't right. Yeah, I want to 489 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: put this part in because it's it seems to indicate 490 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: that he was, like you said, proud of the relationship 491 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: and also wasn't wasn't worried about people knowing that this 492 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: is his home office. By the way, in the same room, 493 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: he's got a framed photo of him with a guy 494 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: named Rob mush Hara Dinaj, who was a former Prime 495 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: Minister of Kosovo. This starts to get international real quick. 496 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: We also know in twenty eighteen he had access to 497 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: a secret list of Russian oligarks that Uncle Sam was 498 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: going to sanction for their ties to Luke Kremlin, their 499 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: ties to Putin Well. He was keeping an eye, like 500 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: his group was keeping an eye specifically on those oligarchs 501 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: where's the money? Where? How's it being spent? Right now? 502 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: And moved around, and then he ends up being accused 503 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: of trying to get this one particular oligarch tera Posca 504 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: removed from that potential list right right, the mongoose appears 505 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: to have befriended the snake it was supposed to hunt. 506 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: That second charge is just as you described it, Matt. 507 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: There's this Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska and apparently McGonagall and 508 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: he worked out some kind of arrangement where he was 509 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: going to try to get dere Pasca off of US sanctions, 510 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: which is a big, big deal because he has access 511 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: to a lot of money from his side of the fence, 512 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: and if he can play ball in the US, then 513 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: he can move that money very easily to make it 514 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: dance for him in all kinds of ways dance funny money. Yeah, 515 00:32:53,560 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: so he was paid monthly, right, he was like employed. Yeah, 516 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: he had w nines you know, I mean this is well, 517 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, I know, he definitely did not have 518 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: anything of the sort, but yeah, he was. He was 519 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: paid twenty five thousand dollars a month for work that 520 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: he was doing here, which is great money. Twenty five 521 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. That that should give everybody kind of a 522 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: glimpse into what oligarch Well, like the capital, the oligarchs 523 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: are capable of spending easily. You know. No, it's not 524 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: how so said level, but it's still it's big, you 525 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: know this, This is the kind of thing where in 526 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: the mind of the oligarch you go, what's the smallest 527 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: amount of money that would seem like a huge money 528 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: to one of these law peasants. Twenty five g's a month. Yeah, well, yeah, 529 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: but what account is it going to come from? Ah? 530 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: That's where you get careful, right, because in addition to 531 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: that five grand you're ponying up, you also have to 532 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: pay for the support structure to keep it from looking 533 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: like you're openly cutting this guy at check every month. 534 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: So this goes through an account held by a former 535 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: Russian diplomat who worked as an interpreter for the US government. 536 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: His name, Sergei Shstakov, not made up, that's his real name. 537 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: And one would assume that, you know, these types of 538 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: folks are vetted pretty heavily if their former Russian officials 539 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: or a Russian you know, would you consider a diplomat 540 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: not an operative, but still people within the Russian government. 541 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: If they're coming to work for US, you would assume 542 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: that they're being paid pretty close attention to in terms 543 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: of their background and their allegiances and all of that, right, Yeah, Yeah, 544 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 1: the bar is pretty high. The background checks are quite extensive, 545 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, the net is pretty tight there. And because 546 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: they're these folks are professionals right there, They're not amateurs. 547 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: And the one of the big issues that's happened in 548 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: recent years is that the US government has challenges getting 549 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: people who are fluent in certain high value languages, like 550 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: it's it's tough to find those people, so they are prioritized, 551 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, Okay, well, let's talk about Darris Bosca. 552 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 1: He has Ian McGonagall. This is very cinematic. They have 553 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: been aware of each other for years. Like the the 554 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 1: FBI as far back as twenty fourteen tried to recruit 555 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: our pal Oleg as an informant because of course he's 556 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: high value. Well yeah, let's let's talk about why he's 557 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 1: high value. Okay, sure, this dude, this oligarch Oleg was 558 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: the richest person in Russia in two thousand and eight, 559 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: the richest person in Russian two thousand and eight, and 560 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: then what happened in two thousand and eight, two thousand 561 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: and nine, Guys, huge crash in the United States, huge 562 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: global economy crash. He ended up losing a ton of money, 563 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: had a bunch of debt, and his net worth right 564 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: now was around just under a three billion. But he 565 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,879 Speaker 1: was the richest person in Russia in two thousand and eight, 566 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: And you can imagine then after losing a ton of 567 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 1: that money, by the time you get to twenty fourteen, 568 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: he's made all the connections as the richest the former 569 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: richest person in Russia, right, and he's moving in all them. Yeah, 570 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: he's in a debt's pretty he's in a much more 571 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: vulnerable place than he had been in a long time. 572 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: Probably you can imagine he was a target. Oh I'm sorry, 573 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: I see I was reading it the other way. I 574 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: was looking at it like he lost all that money. 575 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: He had all these connections from back when he was 576 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: super rich, so now he was going to exploit those connections. 577 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: But it's the other way around to what we were 578 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 1: saying earlier, that access that he had was seen as 579 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: like red meat for those who would seek to exploit him. Well, well, 580 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: that's why I'm saying the FBI wanted him, right, Yeah, 581 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: I get it, I get it. Yeah, of course you 582 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: would want. This guy's the bell of the ball intelligence wise, 583 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like that Uncle Sam Poster, 584 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,879 Speaker 1: we want you, except it's a dude in a suit 585 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: with some glasses, and it just I'm sorry to just 586 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,240 Speaker 1: keep harping on this guys, but he's involved in so 587 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: many industries within Russia that if you think about the 588 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: actions Russia took with the Crimean Peninsula, you know, for shipping, 589 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,439 Speaker 1: for getting goods in and out of Russia and out 590 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 1: of that that whole area, basically he was in how 591 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: did they describe it at Forbes Aluminum like utilities, energy, construction, agriculture. 592 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: He was in all the stuff, all of the agro culture. 593 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: Am I Right? There we go. Also two important points. 594 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: I'm hesitant sometimes with the use of old arts to 595 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:06,720 Speaker 1: describe these Russian actors. They are tentacles of the state. 596 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: But also it seems to imply that there aren't oligarchs 597 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: running the United States, and that's very much the case. Yeah. Always, 598 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: I always get a little confused about the term. I mean, officially, uh, 599 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 1: it is a small group of very wealthy individuals that 600 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: kind of run a state in a sort of shadowy way, right, 601 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: because because they've got the power of the purse essentially, 602 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: like there their money talks and they are influencing government. 603 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: But no, what what is what? What are corporations? You know? 604 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: And in America, you know what are like super super 605 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: wealthy campaign donors. Why are so many people? Why are 606 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: so many of the same people on the top board 607 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: of directors across all these kind of out revolving door 608 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: you were talking about them, you know, folks going from 609 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: you know, these positions of government power to private industry 610 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: and then becoming the top dogs they are, and then 611 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: they have those connections. I mean, this is a topic 612 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: for another day, but I agree. I think the term oligarch, 613 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: especially in terms of using to describe other countries, it's 614 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: like this is something that happens in other countries. So 615 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, that's so not true. Yeah, that's the point 616 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: of making here's the second point, just real quick, soing, 617 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: so this up he is olig is in trouble in 618 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: Russia as well. Now this last year, a year ago 619 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: actually he called for peace in Ukraine. He said, destroying 620 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,399 Speaker 1: Ukraine would be a huge mistake, and a few months 621 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: after that, Russian authorities started seizing some of his assets, 622 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: including a hotel complex. He owens and sochi. Oh, that's right, 623 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: that was that was a retribution kind of almost, wasn't it? 624 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: Well again, we got I think we when we do 625 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: a series on oligarchs, it's probably this guy's his own episode. 626 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: But but we do. We just I think the only 627 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: reason why I'm okay with describing Oleg as an oligarch 628 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 1: is because he is one of these guys that got 629 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 1: his business roots are at the collapse of the Soviet Union. 630 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: So he's one of these guatization. He's one of the 631 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: guys that swooped in with private money, bought up all 632 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: of the state run stuff that well was state run 633 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: at the time, and then just made billions and billions 634 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 1: for the equivalent of pennies on the dollar. Yeah, and 635 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: McGonagall had investigated multiple Russian operatives earlier in his career. 636 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: It's currently unclear whether he was involved with the effort 637 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 1: to recruit dry Pasca. But here's the thing. If you've 638 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: ever worked anywhere, you tend to have some idea of 639 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: your colleague's projects. Unless you're in like the puzzle palace, 640 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: you are. You might not be actively involved in something, 641 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: but you know what they do, right. You're not up 642 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: to the day to day of the accounting or like 643 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: the folks who are I don't know, involved in some 644 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: new initiative, but you know they're doing something you roughly 645 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: know what. Before his retirement in twenty eighteen, McGonagall had 646 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,280 Speaker 1: moved to the point where he was directly in charge 647 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 1: of investigating Olig and this guy, like you said, many 648 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: already been implicated in so many criminal acts over the years, 649 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: including Russian attempts to sway the US election, the same 650 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: election that, according to some anonymous sources, McGonagall may have 651 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: also tried to sway. The press caught on they began 652 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: reporting on this, and they uncover a lot of firsthand 653 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: accounts from anonymous former colleagues. But then also they found 654 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: account messy personal life stuff like it looked like Olig 655 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: and Charlie had started helping each other out, kind of 656 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: on a personal as well as professional level, like he was. 657 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: Charlie was helping Olig's daughter with some stuff. It was 658 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: very important to Olig that she get to the US 659 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,279 Speaker 1: to give birth. So that her child would have us 660 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: papers that clean. And it seems like Charlie was also 661 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: stepping out on his wife, who he described as his 662 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 1: ex wife. They seem to have been estranged for a bit. 663 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 1: And this is just reporting. This is not us personally 664 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:18,800 Speaker 1: saying this. We had an extra marital relationship, a girlfriend 665 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: on the side. Alison gertietro Of from about spring at 666 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:28,800 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen. Yes, yes, relationships can always 667 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: be tough. Affairs are not ethically sound, but adultery is 668 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,880 Speaker 1: not a crime in Maryland. Still, this tells us more 669 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: about the case. What do we mean? We'll tell you 670 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors and we've returned, you know, 671 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 1: mat It occurs to me that this next part of 672 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: the story, if someone makes a movie on this, this 673 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: is going to be the part they focus on way 674 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: too much, because screenwriters and TV writers are always like, oh, 675 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: let's let's talk about the emotional aspects of the thing. 676 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: Let's have everybody use their names way too often in 677 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: a scene. Well, yeah, the b storyline is it's often 678 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:18,280 Speaker 1: what gets you through to the next important plot point. Yeah, 679 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean it's functional, You're right, I I sound cold 680 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I think it's okay for people to have emotions. 681 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:34,720 Speaker 1: That's not fair of me. Whatever. So, okay, these guys 682 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 1: both have pretty they don't have perfect personal lives. Who does. 683 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: The thing is it would not have necessarily been illegal 684 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: for Charlie McGonagall to work for Oleg Depasca, right, No, 685 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,360 Speaker 1: I mean if it was, if he truly left his 686 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: post at the FBI and just started up, you know, 687 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: a new position somewhere, utilizing the things he'd learned in 688 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: his position, not necessarily any of the seats, but the skills, 689 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: then I guess that's okay. We do know, you don't 690 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: you never really leave an intelligence agency when you retire, 691 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:13,399 Speaker 1: and not really kind of mostly but not really. I mean, yeah, 692 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: I guess it depends on because these are big, big operations, right, 693 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: so I guess it depends on what you do. But 694 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: if you're like a special agent in charge, it does 695 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: seem like those relationships and influences would follow you after, 696 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,320 Speaker 1: you know, after you leave. And even if even people 697 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: who go through the debriefing process still I'm confident they 698 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: can still make some calls and things like that. I 699 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 1: don't think it's I don't know, I just I don't 700 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: know if we want to paint a huge broad brush 701 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 1: and say that everybody is still active when they leave. 702 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,280 Speaker 1: Some people some people are still some people are still 703 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:58,399 Speaker 1: just you know, going fishing, right. Yeah. Yeah, I don't 704 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: mean to say. I don't mean to say you're always 705 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: active even when you retire. What I mean is like 706 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 1: a part of it, a part of the journey stays 707 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: with you, you know what I mean. I don't know 708 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But ultimately, there's a you have a 709 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: tie to the FBI now no matter what, even if 710 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 1: you're retired, right, And it's not that you have that information, 711 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,799 Speaker 1: you know, it's no, it's known that you're aware of 712 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,479 Speaker 1: the methods. That's probably one of the most important things. Yeah, 713 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 1: if you're gonna go into a relationship like this with 714 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 1: an oligarch, you basically would just have to inform everybody 715 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,279 Speaker 1: and be upfront about it. Hey, guys, just want to 716 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,879 Speaker 1: let you know I'm doing my thing over here now 717 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,880 Speaker 1: with the whole legg Uh. You know, you check it 718 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,160 Speaker 1: out if you need to, totally fine, buff board, But 719 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: that's not what happened. Do you think they had nicknames 720 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: for each other? Oh? He was was he calling him 721 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: like the leg man or something that's a cool dick 722 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 1: dave like man. It's probably just like Chucking Gregg or 723 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: something real sick. Yeah, yeah, no, you're right, you're right. 724 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,360 Speaker 1: They they may not have their conversations may not have 725 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,240 Speaker 1: been as fun as ours. But but yeah. The Foreign 726 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:14,400 Speaker 1: Agents Registration Act, it's an old law and it's one 727 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 1: of those laws that is still in effect. It requires 728 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,239 Speaker 1: anybody who is operating for a foreign government organization or 729 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 1: a VIP of some sort to disclose their relationship to 730 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,359 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice. And part of this, I mean, 731 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't ban any specific activities, but it's kind of 732 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 1: like a let us know, loop us in so we 733 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 1: understand what's going on. And if you don't do that, 734 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,440 Speaker 1: then you can get hit with a two hundred and 735 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars fine and up to five years in prison. 736 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 1: There's there's a report again from Business Insider did some 737 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 1: excellent work here. The show's mcgonagall's girlfriend kind of always 738 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: knew something was up. She knew he was lying to 739 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 1: her about the state of his previous relationship. You know, 740 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,839 Speaker 1: he said he loved his kids, but he has a 741 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,279 Speaker 1: soon to be ex wife and they're definitely going to 742 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: get divorced, and they've been per her Dave. He's saying that, 743 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, the marriage is over and it's just almost 744 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,360 Speaker 1: a matter of paperwork. And he goes back home to 745 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,640 Speaker 1: Maryland once or twice a month, but he has an 746 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:30,000 Speaker 1: apartment in Park Sloop in New York. And one day 747 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,359 Speaker 1: in October twenty seventeen, I think it is, she's hanging 748 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,280 Speaker 1: out at his apartment and she sees a literal bag 749 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 1: of cash on the floor, bundles and bundles of big 750 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 1: denominations wrapped up in rubber bands. And she's like, Charlie, 751 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 1: what was going on? And he says, oh, I want 752 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: to bet a baseball game. Dang, Charlie man suffle bag bets. 753 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 1: All right, yeah, I should do that more often. Cheeziles. 754 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 1: Uh yeah yeah. Um. I guess the girlfriend his his 755 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: a girlfriend at the time really just kind of believed 756 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 1: what she was being sold. Um, And he was definitely 757 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 1: not being upfront about really anything there. Um, And I 758 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:19,840 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't I guess you just kind of 759 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,160 Speaker 1: move on. He go all right, well, I guess that's 760 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:26,200 Speaker 1: his that's his baseball money. Let's go see that movie. 761 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 1: Charlie's baseball money. Yeah. Uh. She had also had relationships 762 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,360 Speaker 1: in the past with people who are in law enforcement. 763 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,640 Speaker 1: You can find a picture of her with Giuliani by 764 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: the way, Rudy Giuliani And yeah, and she said, you know, 765 00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 1: sometimes I just didn't ask questions. I knew. Charlie lived large. 766 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 1: He would take her to really posh, nice restaurants. He 767 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: would give her gifts of large amounts of cash for birthday, 768 00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,320 Speaker 1: like five hundred thousand dollars. He said he would frame 769 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,040 Speaker 1: his divorce papers for her as a present. He would 770 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:10,239 Speaker 1: take her to private box games to watch the New 771 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:14,440 Speaker 1: Jersey Devils saw hockey team there and then she saw it. 772 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,240 Speaker 1: She recalls stuff like one time he just gave somebody 773 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 1: on the street one hundred dollars, like he got his panhandling, 774 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,520 Speaker 1: and he said, well, I'm better off than he is. 775 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to help him because I'm in a 776 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:28,680 Speaker 1: better place. And then she also said she contracted cancer. 777 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,880 Speaker 1: She battled cancer for a while, and she said during 778 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,760 Speaker 1: that time he would he was very loving and caring, 779 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,680 Speaker 1: and he would send agents to drive her back and 780 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:43,520 Speaker 1: forth from treatment in government vehicles. He's kind of playing 781 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: fast and loose with the company property at that point. Yeah, 782 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,160 Speaker 1: that's pretty nuts. So McGonagall and his girlfriend were living 783 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:52,960 Speaker 1: it up. They were doing some great things. I mean, 784 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,480 Speaker 1: come on, hanging out Washington, New Jersey, Devils in a box. 785 00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,720 Speaker 1: That's cool, that's fun. But his girlfriend and he said, 786 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,960 Speaker 1: quote he needed to make more money. He had two 787 00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: kids to put through college and he you know, it 788 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,799 Speaker 1: was a whole other family as a wife too. He 789 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,600 Speaker 1: needed to make more money as the big deal here. 790 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:17,279 Speaker 1: Mm yeah, yeah, it's never enough, right, we all know 791 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:21,280 Speaker 1: the game and the slope, for God's sakes, in an apartment, 792 00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,640 Speaker 1: come on, that's an expensive area, and that's your second 793 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 1: place or third, that's your second place. Yeah. In the 794 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,319 Speaker 1: world of counterintelligence, you know, any any little crack in 795 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,319 Speaker 1: someone's personal life can, should, and will be used as 796 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,200 Speaker 1: leverage if needed. So that means Matt throughout the devil 797 00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:46,080 Speaker 1: hordes there. Uh, that means that any compromising personal information 798 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,239 Speaker 1: can and will be used against someone. And infidelity is 799 00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,760 Speaker 1: just as valuable to those sorts of operatives as crushing debt. 800 00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,600 Speaker 1: It's a way in. But it doesn't seem in this 801 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,960 Speaker 1: case that adultery was the prime factor in his turning 802 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:08,440 Speaker 1: it seems he sold himself for different reasons. And again, 803 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,400 Speaker 1: if there is a conviction that follows, if Uncle Sam 804 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,840 Speaker 1: is able to prove this conspiracy, it honestly looks like 805 00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 1: he sold himself kind of cheap because when he was private, 806 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,800 Speaker 1: industry sources report he was pulling something like three hundred 807 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,080 Speaker 1: to three and fifty thousand dollars a year, not counting 808 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,960 Speaker 1: annual bonuses. And I get at college costs or increasing, 809 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,360 Speaker 1: but that's still that's a fair amount of money. I 810 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,279 Speaker 1: would imagine it's a lot of money. Kidneys, it's gone 811 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,200 Speaker 1: a lot of money. It's quite a bit of money. 812 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,920 Speaker 1: And so before we start sounding like a Seinfeld episode 813 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,920 Speaker 1: or curb your enthusiasm, it's a lot of body. He 814 00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,080 Speaker 1: apparently needed more. And remember, I think earlier, Matt you 815 00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,800 Speaker 1: mentioned it was two hundred and twenty five thousand dollars 816 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,680 Speaker 1: that he had received in the high level world of 817 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:07,799 Speaker 1: tradecraft and consulting firms and oligarchs. That's peanuts. I mean, 818 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 1: if you do the cost benefit analysis, what we say, 819 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,160 Speaker 1: even just the Foreign Registration Act getting popped on that 820 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,000 Speaker 1: one is a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars fine. 821 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,200 Speaker 1: You know, take a lesson from the banks. Make sure 822 00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,840 Speaker 1: that if you are convicted of a crime, the fine 823 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,960 Speaker 1: for that is less than the money you made doing 824 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,399 Speaker 1: the crime. Hey, so you always come out on top. 825 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,759 Speaker 1: So you always come out on top and shut out 826 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,799 Speaker 1: Mac always study in Philadelphia. I mean, that's the thing, 827 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:40,439 Speaker 1: all right. The current status Charles McGonigal has not been convicted. 828 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,600 Speaker 1: There has not been a trial. So a lot of 829 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,399 Speaker 1: what we're exploring here is just what has been said 830 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,000 Speaker 1: in the public sphere. It's quite possible that there is 831 00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:54,640 Speaker 1: information on the defense side and the prosecutor side that 832 00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,680 Speaker 1: will only later come to light and it may change 833 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:02,760 Speaker 1: the conversation. He made ale, he paid a five hundred 834 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:07,960 Speaker 1: thousand dollars bond. He is, to all accounts, he is 835 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:14,040 Speaker 1: currently residing there in Maryland. Uh, I don't know, Chevy Chase, 836 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:18,280 Speaker 1: not Slope, New York or whatever? Is that? Is that Brooklyn? 837 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,040 Speaker 1: I think that yeah, yeah, yeah, it's Brooklyn. Uh. And 838 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:26,359 Speaker 1: I gotta ask, do you think he'll be convicted? Um? Oh, 839 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think on some charges at least 840 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:34,719 Speaker 1: there's fishy stuff, but it's high. It's also so highly sensitive. 841 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,480 Speaker 1: I wonder how much, oh right, how much could be 842 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:42,279 Speaker 1: an open court. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I mean, 843 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:46,640 Speaker 1: that's the thing I personally think right now. It is 844 00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,320 Speaker 1: likely that he'll be convicted on at least some charges, 845 00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:51,440 Speaker 1: but there is only a chapter in a much larger 846 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,200 Speaker 1: story of conspiracy. As we're recording to day, it is 847 00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 1: certain that multiple government agents are being targeted by Turn 848 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,160 Speaker 1: for turning operations. Hopefully none of them will be successful. 849 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:09,000 Speaker 1: The McGonagall case is extraordinarily rare, but the conspiracies continue. 850 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,960 Speaker 1: We only know about the ones who get caught. Of course, 851 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:15,879 Speaker 1: foreign powers want people on the inside of their rivals operations, 852 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,680 Speaker 1: and why not. I mean, don't forget folks, especially if 853 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,600 Speaker 1: you live in America, around the planet, in every country 854 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:27,480 Speaker 1: you can imagine right now, the United States wants the same. 855 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:33,360 Speaker 1: That's how the game is played. Who so, you know, 856 00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:40,040 Speaker 1: let's do our little podcast. Yeah, yeah, let's talk about it. Yeah, 857 00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:44,279 Speaker 1: oh god, So what do you think? It's just this 858 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,840 Speaker 1: just a case of a former spy going out and 859 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,560 Speaker 1: trying to make some cash in you know, a way 860 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,479 Speaker 1: that he understands how to do it. Or is it 861 00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,120 Speaker 1: some kind of tricksy thing going on the back in 862 00:54:55,160 --> 00:55:00,359 Speaker 1: the background between the US and Russian powers. I don't 863 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,960 Speaker 1: know if we saw this, ben, but there was a 864 00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,120 Speaker 1: March twenty seventeen report connecting this same guy, Dry Pasca 865 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:13,360 Speaker 1: Olegg to Paul Manafort, the guy who was running Trump's campaign, 866 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:19,120 Speaker 1: and allegedly Paul Manafort was getting paid a lot of 867 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:26,080 Speaker 1: money on a multi year contract to specifically promote Russia 868 00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:31,400 Speaker 1: and the things that Russia wanted. He had a contract 869 00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:36,959 Speaker 1: with Derri Pasca. Dera Pasca also sued Manafort. He did, 870 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 1: he did. There's a connection to Christopher Steele from the 871 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:46,479 Speaker 1: Steel dossier, you know, the Ppe dossier. There's some weird 872 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,440 Speaker 1: stuff going on with that oligarch, that guy who the 873 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,520 Speaker 1: guy who is known as an oligarch. Yeah, which which 874 00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,759 Speaker 1: oligarch's should we look into? Let us know. We hope 875 00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,200 Speaker 1: you enjoyed today's episode. Again, this is unfolding case, but 876 00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:04,719 Speaker 1: it can It's a window through which we can view 877 00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,160 Speaker 1: a world that does not have to get explored. We 878 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,560 Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts. Find us on Facebook, Instagram, 879 00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,960 Speaker 1: TikTok until the US takes that down, would love it. 880 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,160 Speaker 1: If you check out our YouTube show, you can see 881 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,080 Speaker 1: not too many spoilers, but you can see that night 882 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,560 Speaker 1: getting back to our roots there in a way that 883 00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,160 Speaker 1: I think we both really enjoy. And if you also 884 00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:33,120 Speaker 1: not like our roots dancing way too much, and and 885 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,959 Speaker 1: if you don't sip the social meds, as always, we've 886 00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,799 Speaker 1: got your back, fellow conspiracy realists. You can call us 887 00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:45,920 Speaker 1: directly dial one eight three three std wy t K. 888 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,440 Speaker 1: It's a voicemail system. Give yourself a cool nickname. We 889 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,600 Speaker 1: don't care what it is. Don't use your real name. 890 00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,879 Speaker 1: Come on, we've learned more than this. Don't use your 891 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,719 Speaker 1: real name. Say whatever you'd like. At some point, tell 892 00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,879 Speaker 1: us if we can use your name and message on 893 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,920 Speaker 1: the air. If you've got more to say they can 894 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,200 Speaker 1: fit in that three minutes. Why not instead send us 895 00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,480 Speaker 1: a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio 896 00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:30,720 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know is 897 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,840 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 898 00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,000 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 899 00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:38,840 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.