Speaker 1: I already like you. You don't have to like burnish
Speaker 1: your image with me, verymage.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to be honest and lovely.
Speaker 1: God bless you for that. You are lovely. Goddamn it.
Speaker 1: Welcome to SNAFU, the Show about history's greatest screw ups.
Speaker 1: I am your host ed helms, and today I am
Speaker 1: joined by an incredible documentarian, producer, director, and podcaster, extraordinary
Speaker 1: with some of the most incredible investigative skills in the biz.
Speaker 1: A few of his most memorable hits include Missing Richard Simmons,
Speaker 1: nine to twelve, The Line, and most recently, the Ambis
Speaker 1: and Apple Podcast of the Year, Hysterical and Way Before
Speaker 1: all of that, he was also my former colleague from
Speaker 1: The Daily Show. I am talking about the amazing, illustrious Tuberski.
Speaker 1: Welcome Dan, it's me, Hi. Hi, how are you. I'm awesome,
Speaker 1: So good to see you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really good to see you too.
Speaker 1: We worked together a very long time ago, and you've
Speaker 1: done so many incredible things since then, and I am
Speaker 1: enormously proud of you and proud to know you.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I feel the same way about you. It's
Speaker 2: been half a lifetime since we worked together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much. When was that you were your Daily
Speaker 1: Show tenure? I started in two thousand and two and
Speaker 1: went to two thousand and six.
Speaker 2: I was ninety nine to two thousand and three.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so we overlapped about two years maybe ye
Speaker 1: and am and.
Speaker 2: Two years that we just happened to win a Peabody.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Coincidence, I don't know. You tell me, I don't think.
Speaker 1: So that's that's why this this is our first collaboration
Speaker 1: since then, and it's going to win a Peabody.
Speaker 2: It's like, this actual episode not going to win.
Speaker 1: That's what we do, that's how we do it. So
Speaker 1: we You and I collaborated on a number of secondments
Speaker 1: in our Daily Show days, and one of the ones
Speaker 1: I'm most proud of is in fact, a Dan Tabirsky segment,
Speaker 1: a delightful little number called Guns for Tots. Explain the
Speaker 1: premise of this, of this segment we did for the
Speaker 1: Daily Show.
Speaker 2: It was this guy who who wanted to make sure
Speaker 2: he was he was?
Speaker 1: What was he doing? He was libertarian? Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: a libertarian.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a libertarian guy and he was and
Speaker 2: he was protesting the existence of a law that was
Speaker 2: trying to keep guns away from kids, Like if you
Speaker 2: had a squirt gun, you had to like painted bright
Speaker 2: pink so it didn't look like a gun. So some
Speaker 2: kid didn't get shot by accident by a cop. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And he was just up in arms.
Speaker 1: He felt like this was government overreach, that the government
Speaker 1: would have the audacity to uh to interfere with someone's
Speaker 1: right to arm their children. And this is all true,
Speaker 1: this is real. This is the real stuff that we
Speaker 1: did a satirical about. But the real premise was this
Speaker 1: guy had a very provocative toy drive called Guns for Tots,
Speaker 1: in which he gave toy guns two children in Harlem,
Speaker 1: New York, and we went and covered.
Speaker 2: It and we treated him like like.
Speaker 1: Like the hero. He's a warrior.
Speaker 2: He was a justice warrior.
Speaker 1: He was a justice warrior.
Speaker 2: He was like making a difference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, guy, I'll never forget our the The segment closed
Speaker 1: with him talking about how he wants to he can't
Speaker 1: wait to buy guns for his children, his own children,
Speaker 1: and we cut to our amazing editor at the time,
Speaker 1: Ainer had a beautiful little daughter and do you remember this.
Speaker 1: We filmed her playing with a with a toy gun
Speaker 1: that had been painted black and looked very real, and
Speaker 1: it's like this, the sweetest, most horrifying juxtaposition of a
Speaker 1: child with what looks like a glock.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible, it's incredible. It's an amazing visual.
Speaker 1: I mean it's crazy. How long ago that was. Well,
Speaker 1: let's get into today's snap. Who it is. It's quite
Speaker 1: a doozy this one. Are you ready? Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: here we go. Imagine this. It's January nineteen nineteen. You
Speaker 1: and I are strolling the North End of Boston together
Speaker 1: on a brisk forty degree day for Boston. Of course,
Speaker 1: this is actually shorts and t shirt weather.
Speaker 2: Yeah, super nice.
Speaker 1: Now, the North End is Boston's version of Little Italy.
Speaker 1: At this time, there are about four hundred thousand people
Speaker 1: crammed within a square mile of tightly wound streets, enjoying
Speaker 1: their mid day chowders and packing the caz. Although they're
Speaker 1: Italian though, so oh yeah right, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's a weird combination.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Boston an Italian accent by caz of course, I
Speaker 1: mean horse drawn carriages and trolley's. At the time, there
Speaker 1: were over eight thousand of them in the city. Of
Speaker 1: Boston car. Just to be clear, there were also cars,
Speaker 1: but it was very early in the automobile time. I
Speaker 1: think it was still just rich people who had cars
Speaker 1: at that time.
Speaker 2: That must have been such a mess having to figure
Speaker 2: out how to navigate cars and horses on the same roads.
Speaker 2: That must have been really confusing.
Speaker 1: That's a great point. I mean that you're right that
Speaker 1: transition must have been real hairy for a while.
Speaker 2: And did they have horns on for horses like when
Speaker 2: you were when you had a wagon, did you have
Speaker 2: a horn or did they just do it with That's
Speaker 2: not a bad question. I'm just I would be because
Speaker 2: I know when they got cars, they would have horns, right,
Speaker 2: horse drawing carriages have horns.
Speaker 1: Well, all I know is that the cars of the
Speaker 1: day sounded a lot like right, that was like the
Speaker 1: car horn. Yeah, And I'm guessing if you were a
Speaker 1: conscientious carriage driver, why wouldn't you have a horn on
Speaker 1: your carriage?
Speaker 2: Or bells?
Speaker 1: Maybe it's bells, although they might scare the horses. You
Speaker 1: gotta be careful. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: So picture this. We're back there. It's January nineteen nineteen,
Speaker 1: and suddenly the ground starts to shake. Is it an earthquake? Well, no, Dan,
Speaker 1: it's probably the last thing you'd expect it to be.
Speaker 1: A twenty five foot tall wave of thick, brown liquid
Speaker 1: rushing straight towards us at thirty five miles an hour.
Speaker 1: Any idea what it is?
Speaker 2: Uh, it's not a tsunami.
Speaker 1: No, and it's not sewage either. Well that's good that
Speaker 1: it's not.
Speaker 2: It's brown. We know it's brown. It's a brown wave.
Speaker 1: It's a wave.
Speaker 2: It's it's a liquid. It's oil. It's oil.
Speaker 1: You're never gonna guess. It's so seemingly random and crazy.
Speaker 1: It is molasses.
Speaker 2: Oh fuck, that's a mess.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a massive tsunami of molasses that flooded
Speaker 1: the north end of Boston. And it was it was
Speaker 1: a very dire accident.
Speaker 2: Where did it come from?
Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna get into all of this, but so
Speaker 1: just to understand how Boston got itself in to this
Speaker 1: wicked pisse of a predicament, let's rewind. Let's go all
Speaker 1: the way back to the beginning. And I'm not going
Speaker 1: to throw any more bostonisms out because I can't even
Speaker 1: do it right.
Speaker 2: No, I like them. I think they're fun.
Speaker 1: So, first, what you have to know is that molasses
Speaker 1: was a major commodity of the day and a crucial
Speaker 1: component of the Massachusetts economy in the early nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 1: Are you a fan of molasses? Like, do you ever
Speaker 1: consume molasses?
Speaker 2: No, that feels like a Southern thing to cook.
Speaker 1: With, for sure, it's definitely so. I grew up having
Speaker 1: molasses on like breakfast biscuits and stuff. It's basically like
Speaker 1: a very very strong syrup, is what it tastes like.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's delicious.
Speaker 1: Are you aware of the many uses outside of cuisine
Speaker 1: that molasses can be used for?
Speaker 2: Well, because we're talking about Boston, I'm wondering if they
Speaker 2: use it for like pitching boats and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. Could use like tar. Yeah, it's not quite
Speaker 1: as strong as tar. It's it's much less viscous than tar.
Speaker 1: So here are some other uses of molasses. Of course,
Speaker 1: it's used to make rum. But did you also know
Speaker 1: that it can be distilled into industrial alcohol and then
Speaker 1: even broken down into its chemical components for use in explosives.
Speaker 1: So it had some very strong industrial uses, and especially
Speaker 1: at this time, because with the outbreak of World War One,
Speaker 1: there was suddenly a massive increase in demand for industrial
Speaker 1: alcohol and for explosives, and so therefore also huge demand
Speaker 1: for molasses.
Speaker 2: That's incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so they had to have these massive storage
Speaker 1: tanks all over the country for molasses of all.
Speaker 2: You one more time? Yeah, where does molasses actually come from?
Speaker 1: Is it tree? Sap? It is, so it's made from sugarcane.
Speaker 1: At this time, it almost all came from the Caribbean.
Speaker 2: That's why. That's why Caribbean rema is such a thing. Correct, interesting, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm learning.
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifteen, a group called the United States Industrial
Speaker 1: Alcohol Company we will heretofore refer to as USIA saw
Speaker 1: an opportunity to capitalize on the growing popularity of molasses
Speaker 1: and began construction on a three million gallon tank in
Speaker 1: Boston's North Endow. Now, how big do you think this is?
Speaker 1: Like if you had to like compare it to something,
Speaker 1: how big is a three million gallon tank?
Speaker 2: I mean it's got to be like just like one
Speaker 2: of those things like that you see that hold the
Speaker 2: water tanks, like.
Speaker 1: Oh, like at airports, like the is that like three million?
Speaker 1: You know? I think it's much bigger. It's so this
Speaker 1: is the size of four four and a half Olympic
Speaker 1: sized swimming pools. It's fifty feet tall and nine defeat
Speaker 1: in diameter. That is, that's a lot of molasses.
Speaker 2: That's a lot of molasses. That's incredible.
Speaker 1: Now, the idea was for USIA to supply their own
Speaker 1: refineries with raw molasses instead of relying on other companies,
Speaker 1: thereby cutting out the middleman. And the company was expecting
Speaker 1: a massive molasses shipment from Cuba. So naturally, USIA being
Speaker 1: a large classic American American industrial corporation, that's all about
Speaker 1: the bottom line, they needed to rush the construction of
Speaker 1: this giant molasses tank. So a man named Arthur Pgel
Speaker 1: had been hired to oversee the molasses tank project, despite
Speaker 1: having zero engineering background whatsoever.
Speaker 2: Sorry Gel ju no.
Speaker 1: J e ll okay got Arthur Pgel? Yeah, it is
Speaker 1: a funny last name, especially considering that we're talking about
Speaker 1: a viscous substance. Ye. Well, he was able to deliver
Speaker 1: on the two most important criteria, making this thing fast
Speaker 1: and making it cheap. So allegedly, Gel and his team
Speaker 1: did not even test this giant vat before putting it
Speaker 1: into use. You know, you would want to like fill
Speaker 1: it with water at least and just see if it works. Well.
Speaker 1: They didn't. They didn't even test it, so right away,
Speaker 1: this vat is leaking constantly, so much so that neighborhood
Speaker 1: kids were bringing buckets to catch the drippings for a snack.
Speaker 1: Are you a finicky eater? Or are you? Are you
Speaker 1: like George Castanza?
Speaker 2: I mean if somebody said, hey, you want a bucket
Speaker 2: of molasses, I wouldn't say no. I wouldn't throw a
Speaker 2: bucket of molasses out of bed.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure it would be good in bed. Who knows.
Speaker 1: So this tank was not working well from the get go.
Speaker 1: In fact, every time the tank was filled, the groaning
Speaker 1: of the metal could be heard by nearby residents, a
Speaker 1: clear indication that something was a miss with the structural
Speaker 1: integrity of the tank. Self complaints naturally came flooding in.
Speaker 1: So what did this company USIA do, especially because there
Speaker 1: was so much visible leakage all around the tank? Well,
Speaker 1: they painted the tank brown to disguise all the leaks.
Speaker 1: That'll make the problem go away.
Speaker 2: Just yeah, this is wild.
Speaker 1: This is really wild because it's something we see a
Speaker 1: lot in our SNAFU research here at the Snaffoo podcast.
Speaker 1: People do not do the right thing. Just trying to
Speaker 1: cover their tracks or put band aids on terrible situations
Speaker 1: is like the norm. That's like, you know, at least
Speaker 1: it is well, So this might surprise you. Molasses tank
Speaker 1: failures were not uncommon during this time period. They happened
Speaker 1: all over the US.
Speaker 2: That's incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they happened all over the US, from New Orleans
Speaker 1: to Oakland to Hoboken. But on the flip side, most
Speaker 1: tanks were also not this enormous, like absolutely acid. On
Speaker 1: January fifteenth, nineteen nineteen, a ship arrived from the Caribbean
Speaker 1: to pump a huge delivery of fresh, warm molasses into
Speaker 1: the tank. Now, this is important to know. Like a
Speaker 1: lot of liquids, as molasses gets warmer, it flows much quicker,
Speaker 1: it has a lower viscosity. As it gets colder, it
Speaker 1: gets way more viscous, and it flows very, very slowly
Speaker 1: and thicker. As soon as they pump this tank full
Speaker 1: of molasses, something is off right away. No one considered
Speaker 1: the fact that the tank was already half full of
Speaker 1: cold molasses due to the previous days freezing New England temperatures.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like pouring super hot coffee into a
Speaker 1: freezing cold glass. It shatters, right, because that is thermal shock.
Speaker 1: This actually happened in my kitchen a bunch of years ago.
Speaker 1: I pour bacon grease into a cup and then put
Speaker 1: it in the fridge to let it harden, and then
Speaker 1: I throw it away. Do you do that? Is that
Speaker 1: like a No, that's a great idea because you can't
Speaker 1: pour it down the sink because it'll clog your sink.
Speaker 1: So you put it in the fridge and it gets
Speaker 1: it hardens, and then you can just sort of flip
Speaker 1: it out into your trash can. So I had done
Speaker 1: this and forgotten about it, and so it was like
Speaker 1: this cold bacon grease in my fridge. Then I made
Speaker 1: more bacon. I like bacon.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just Jesus Christ and who cooks bacon?
Speaker 2: That's what century is this?
Speaker 1: What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: You like fry up a pan of bacon in your house.
Speaker 2: I've never I'm sorry, I'm just a little.
Speaker 1: Shocked you've never cooked bacon in your.
Speaker 2: House as a child. I just like a rasher of
Speaker 2: bacon is just I don't know, these very old fact Well,
Speaker 2: I guess you're having.
Speaker 1: Molasses too, remember Georgia. We eat bacon. So I had
Speaker 1: another hot like this hot bacon grease and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: dispose of it. So I just grabbed the cold glass
Speaker 1: of cold grease from previously pour the hot grease in it,
Speaker 1: and it sheered. It broke a perfect, perfect break along
Speaker 1: at the line of the cold grease and hot grease,
Speaker 1: and I was holding a ring of glass like in
Speaker 1: a perfectly clean break. And then of course all the
Speaker 1: bacon grease shattered all over the floor with broken glass. Wow,
Speaker 1: and one of the biggest messes I've ever made. Pretty gross.
Speaker 1: My girlfriend at the time now wife helped me clean
Speaker 1: it up, and I was like, this is an amazing
Speaker 1: person who is willing to help me clean up bacon,
Speaker 1: bacon grease and broken glass. That's a horrible mess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it actually sounds like it mimics exactly what's about
Speaker 2: to happen with the molasses.
Speaker 1: That is part of what is about to go down
Speaker 1: in this massive molasses tank. So people stated at the
Speaker 1: time that they heard a rumble, thinking it was a
Speaker 1: passing train, and then actually they started to hear machine
Speaker 1: gun like sounds which were actually the fasteners popping off
Speaker 1: the tank. Now all of this happened right in the
Speaker 1: midst of lunch hour, when everyone was out and about
Speaker 1: enjoying their warmer than usual January day. I don't even
Speaker 1: know if anyone knows what a machine gun is in
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, but I'm still like getting out of there.
Speaker 1: The gigantic vat bulged and broke, and in a flash,
Speaker 1: two point three million gallons of molasses formed a massive
Speaker 1: wave and rushed into the North end of Boston. A
Speaker 1: New York Times report described the event as quote A dull,
Speaker 1: muffled roar gave but an instant's warning before the top
Speaker 1: of the tank was blown into the air. Wagons, carts,
Speaker 1: and motor trucks were overturned, a number of horses were killed.
Speaker 1: The street was strewn with debris intermixed with malasse, and
Speaker 1: all traffic was stopped. Wow, they ended on. All traffic
Speaker 1: was stopped, which seems like the most benign part of
Speaker 1: the incident. And all traffic was stopped.
Speaker 2: Horses thing.
Speaker 1: A lot of people died too, Dan, We're getting to that. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: the horses, but.
Speaker 2: Just I mean, I'm just saying, you know that the
Speaker 2: people having to clean up the dead horses and molasses
Speaker 2: it was. That's a mess.
Speaker 1: This is a massive snaffoo. It was an incredibly tragic event.
Speaker 1: So the swell moved at thirty five miles an hour,
Speaker 1: which is at the average speed of a cheetah. The
Speaker 1: molasses was initially warm. We try to give you contact,
Speaker 1: Dan now, I love it, I get it. So any
Speaker 1: any cheetahs in the North end of Boston that day
Speaker 1: were fine because they got out in time. So the
Speaker 1: molasses was initially warm from being initially added to the tank,
Speaker 1: but it quickly cooled as it spread through the streets,
Speaker 1: and this cooling caused it to thicken and become more viscous,
Speaker 1: making rescue efforts extremely challenging. Here's a haunting quote from
Speaker 1: the Boston Post. The next day, horses died like so
Speaker 1: many flies on sticky fly paper. The more they struggled,
Speaker 1: the deeper in the mess they were ensnared. Human beings,
Speaker 1: men and women suffered likewise. It's grim. Wow. Grim. So
Speaker 1: molasses is also one and a half times more dense
Speaker 1: than water, So if you're in its path, you weren't
Speaker 1: just like washed away. You were pummeled by this, right,
Speaker 1: hit by it. Yeah, it's uh. It even pushed an
Speaker 1: entire firehouse off its foundation. Wow, yeah, are you? Are
Speaker 1: you good in a disaster like this?
Speaker 2: I think I would probably be a mess at first,
Speaker 2: But I think if it was a long term disaster,
Speaker 2: I think I would be one of the ones like
Speaker 2: I can do apocalypse. I feel like I'm ready for
Speaker 2: that to go down.
Speaker 1: I have a very strong like urge to help. I
Speaker 1: will run towards someone in peril, but but I can't
Speaker 1: guarantee you I'm not going to go into shack right.
Speaker 1: So old buildings were crushed by this wave, and the
Speaker 1: remaining pools of molasses were one to three feet deep
Speaker 1: in some areas. According to records, one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: people were injured and twenty one were tragically killed in
Speaker 1: the flood, many of whom worked for the harbor near
Speaker 1: the vat's location. Injuries were severe. Patients were carried into
Speaker 1: a makeshift hospital with broken backs and fractured skulls, really
Speaker 1: really dire stuff. Red crossworkers and a troop of one
Speaker 1: hundred and sixteen Navy cadets who were nearby actually tried
Speaker 1: to swim through the molasses to rescue people, but to
Speaker 1: no avail. At nightfall, the weather got cold, even colder,
Speaker 1: and the molasses got even harder and thicker, so rescue
Speaker 1: efforts just became next to impossible. Bodies were now getting
Speaker 1: trapped in amber like crystallization, so it's almost like the
Speaker 1: mosquito in Richard Address in his Cane. But yeah, very
Speaker 1: very grim. So we do have some photos. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: show you. This is an elevated train structure that was
Speaker 1: just like massively Yeah, it almost knocked it over.
Speaker 2: Wow, Oh my god. They must have been such a mess,
Speaker 2: Like everybody just must have been covered in this shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's it's like, yes, it's a tragedy, but
Speaker 1: it's also sticky and gooey. We have another photo as well.
Speaker 1: This next one is uh is damage on Commercial Street.
Speaker 1: You can actually see the collapsed tank in the center
Speaker 1: of this image, just in front of the white colored buildings.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 1: The rescue effort went on for four entire days, mainly
Speaker 1: recovering bodies. The devastation was immense. Most of the victims
Speaker 1: had either suffocated or were crushed by debris that came
Speaker 1: through the flood. The north end was a mess, and
Speaker 1: molasses coated the debris, making it like to your point,
Speaker 1: It was insanely hard to clean up, but they did
Speaker 1: finally find a hack. There was a really interesting discovery
Speaker 1: on how to clean up molasses, any idea how to
Speaker 1: clean up molasses?
Speaker 2: It feels like one of those tricks where remember there
Speaker 2: would be a plate of water and you would have
Speaker 2: you to put like pepper and salt in it, and
Speaker 2: then you'd put a drop of soap and the yeah,
Speaker 2: and it sends everything to the edge. I feel something
Speaker 2: like that, like some sort of like combination of things
Speaker 2: that makes it dissipate.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's it's not that dramatic, but it is clever,
Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't have thought of it off the top
Speaker 1: of my head. But it turns out seawater helps dissolve molasses.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but it does. And uh so, Yeah.
Speaker 1: They started pumping water in from the Boston Harbor, and
Speaker 1: after weeks of hosing down, the whole area of the
Speaker 1: city was finally rid of the icky, sticky gew Most
Speaker 1: of the molasses was washed into the Boston Harbor itself,
Speaker 1: and residents reported that the water was brown for weeks.
Speaker 1: If only this coincided with the Boston tea part, right,
Speaker 1: because then they might actually have a yummy new concoction
Speaker 1: floating around the Oh History tea fit tea and molasses,
Speaker 1: the little Earl Gray with molasses in the Boston auvel.
Speaker 2: That sounds nice. I can't believe. I've never heard of that.
Speaker 2: That's such a strange thing.
Speaker 1: It's one of those weird things where it smells good,
Speaker 1: so it's like a horrible tragedy but with a good smell.
Speaker 1: I remember reading reports from these Iraq war veterans who
Speaker 1: talked about walking through carnage and being, you know, very
Speaker 1: traumatized by what they're seeing, but also like a a
Speaker 1: cologne delivery truck had exploded, and so there was this
Speaker 1: like weird sweet stench of cologne washing while they're looking
Speaker 1: at this carnage, and it just the cognitive dissonance of
Speaker 1: it was like it was like very traumatic for these guys.
Speaker 2: Isn't that new? There was something about let that happened
Speaker 2: to New York as well, where every once in a
Speaker 2: while in New York there a smell will come over
Speaker 2: from New Jersey and if it's a sweet smell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a mystery. It was like a pancake smell. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I remember that.
Speaker 2: And I think I think there's there are situations where
Speaker 2: actually that's like a bad sign if that happens, like
Speaker 2: you like, it's something's.
Speaker 1: Wrong, something's about to explode.
Speaker 2: There's molasses.
Speaker 1: New York City stinks like New York City does not
Speaker 1: smell good. And if it suddenly does smell good, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's alarming, alarming. It's like someone's gotta gotta pee or
Speaker 1: take a ship right near me. So that just to
Speaker 1: normalize this, because but I remember that that with the
Speaker 1: pancake smell that they couldn't identify it for I don't
Speaker 1: know if they ever did, but I don't think that
Speaker 1: is that was wild. This one where they cleaned it
Speaker 1: with seawater, that is a stark replacement, right, because seawater
Speaker 1: don't smell good. Yeah, so you like washing seawater through the.
Speaker 2: Stream, Yeah, that's gonna smelled good. Back then I saw
Speaker 2: horseshit and molasses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it was nothing smelled good.
Speaker 1: So what happened next? Countless accusations were thrown around in
Speaker 1: the weeks following the disaster. A class action lawsuit, of
Speaker 1: course UH Door versus the United States Industrial Alcohol Company
Speaker 1: was filed by one hundred nineteen residents. Okay, so this
Speaker 1: is wild. So Usia blamed Italian anarchists, oh the for
Speaker 1: an attack on the molasses tank. The accusation had an
Speaker 1: inkling of plausibility to it because anarchists had targeted USIA
Speaker 1: facilities during the war.
Speaker 2: Anarchists doing bombings were a big deal in the early
Speaker 2: part of this century.
Speaker 1: That's absolutely true. The good old blame the anarchists. Excuse,
Speaker 1: do you have any good, like get out of jail cards?
Speaker 1: Any good? Any good?
Speaker 2: Exclaims anarchists. Yeahsts, you take responsibility. I take responsibility. I'm
Speaker 2: a yeah, I take responsibility.
Speaker 1: Come on, Dan, I already like you. You don't have
Speaker 1: to like burnish your image with me.
Speaker 2: Trying to burnage. I'm just trying to be honest and lovely.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be honest and lovely. God bless
Speaker 1: you for that. You are lovely. Goddamn it you, God,
Speaker 1: you are a goddamn lovely person. All right, back to it.
Speaker 1: Italian Americans, who were often discriminated against and accused of
Speaker 1: being criminals at that time, were the ones thrown under
Speaker 1: the bus here. After all, the that was put in
Speaker 1: the distinct neighborhood of the North End because residents couldn't
Speaker 1: advocate for themselves. This is obviously a very common practice
Speaker 1: in the United States. Low income neighborhoods are often the
Speaker 1: sites of industrial processes and wastelands. So the North End
Speaker 1: was majority Italian, and only twenty five percent of these
Speaker 1: Italians were actually citizens at the time with the ability
Speaker 1: to vote or affect change of any kind. The corporations
Speaker 1: knew they were safe to effectively misbehave in these environments,
Speaker 1: which is very tragic. These corporations are not lovely like you.
Speaker 1: They are not lovely like that.
Speaker 2: I don't even try.
Speaker 1: No, they are very UNTOBURSKII like. I don't like that.
Speaker 2: It's not nice.
Speaker 1: This lawsuit was one of the earliest class actions in
Speaker 1: the state of Massachusetts and one of the first examples
Speaker 1: of pursuing corporate accountability and regulation. The lawsuit took several years.
Speaker 1: Over a thousand people testified, including family of the victims,
Speaker 1: and there were fifteen hundred evidence exhibits. The defense spent
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars on expert witnesses, and the judge,
Speaker 1: Hugh w Ogden, was a war veteran who allegedly hated anarchists. Essentially,
Speaker 1: everyone felt that this case was a massive long shot
Speaker 1: for the plaintiffs. What do you think? How are you
Speaker 1: feeling about their odds? We all love a courtroom drama.
Speaker 2: Yeah, been Italians back then, Like they didn't they I
Speaker 2: don't think they went. I think they lost.
Speaker 1: Surprise, surprise. A nineteen twenty five judge Ogden shockingly ruled
Speaker 1: in favor of the plaintiffs. I mean, I say shocking
Speaker 1: because of your your correct assumptions that it was very
Speaker 1: unusual at the time, even though it was obviously the
Speaker 1: right thing to do so. For anyone keeping score at home,
Speaker 1: that means they were deliberating testimonies for nearly five whole
Speaker 1: years before the decision was made. The USIA's claim of
Speaker 1: anarchist sabotage was tossed aside like a stale Boston brown
Speaker 1: bread loaf. Instead, the USIA just go with it, all right,
Speaker 1: I didn't say where. Instead, the USIA was then made
Speaker 1: to pay the victim's families, the City of Boston, and
Speaker 1: the Boston Elevated Railroad Company six hundred twenty eight thousand
Speaker 1: dollars in damages close to eleven million in today's dollars.
Speaker 1: What would you do if you just like came into
Speaker 1: a massive windfall like that, Dan.
Speaker 2: I would enjoy the feeling that I'll have enough money
Speaker 2: to live till I die. I would just hang on
Speaker 2: to it, all right, I mean, I'm in the future.
Speaker 1: Even if it was I know, you would splurge on something,
Speaker 1: even if it's just like a something at CVS. Like
Speaker 1: what would you if you suddenly knew you were rich
Speaker 1: beyond your wildest dreams? Like what would be my wildest dreams?
Speaker 1: Or would you just go on Amazon and be like, yes,
Speaker 1: I want that wall charger? I want them, Like.
Speaker 2: You know, I've always thought it would be interesting. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't want to ride a motorcycle like nothing too loud,
Speaker 2: but I've always said it would feel really nice to
Speaker 2: like a chopper, like to be driving slow, like down
Speaker 2: the So I think I could really get into that
Speaker 2: and like drive around like do little as on the
Speaker 2: outer motorcycle man Nansen, just like tour the country and
Speaker 2: find myself with my motorcycle.
Speaker 1: And not just a motorcycle but a chopper with like
Speaker 1: the wheel way out front. Well, I like that feeling.
Speaker 2: I feel like you can't go that fast on that
Speaker 2: it feels a little more sturdy than a regular I
Speaker 2: like that, just like you can't.
Speaker 1: I like that too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm looking for a buddy to go
Speaker 2: driving with.
Speaker 1: Hit it on the hell we living? What would you do?
Speaker 2: What would you do with if you just came into
Speaker 2: a bunch of money.
Speaker 1: I feel like it would be a ton of little
Speaker 1: dumb things, like I would just go to my favorite
Speaker 1: cattlehogs and be like that shirt this. Yeah totally, But
Speaker 1: if there was a big splurge, I don't know. I've
Speaker 1: always wanted to be a helicopter pilot.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just think they're so cool.
Speaker 2: Would you buy a helicopter?
Speaker 1: I guess. I mean, how do you be a helicopter pilot? Like?
Speaker 1: Do you rent them? How does it work? It seem
Speaker 1: very expensive.
Speaker 2: I think they're impractical, right, or maybe you share them,
Speaker 2: maybe you like or maybe you like buy a share
Speaker 2: in a helicopter or something like that. Helicopter pilot would
Speaker 2: be fun, actually.
Speaker 1: Obviously helicopters are. We use them in movies all the
Speaker 1: time and on Hangover too, when we're shooting in Bangkok
Speaker 1: on this speedboat and this helicopter pilot who who's supposedly
Speaker 1: like the best, like you know, camera chopper pilot was
Speaker 1: like zooming. We're going like sixty miles an hour on
Speaker 1: this speedboat and he's like zooming right all around us.
Speaker 1: And at one point he's like, we're zooming this way,
Speaker 1: and he's going along next to us, like the chopper's
Speaker 1: flying sideways and next to us, which is called crabbing.
Speaker 1: It's like going sideways, but it's sixty miles an hour
Speaker 1: and he just sticks his hand out the window and
Speaker 1: waves at us. We're like two hands on the wheel, buddy.
Speaker 2: Wow, that must that must feel like freedom. That must
Speaker 2: feel like credible to be riding around something that fascile
Speaker 2: turns like that.
Speaker 1: Still, Yeah, and it was so terrifying for us because
Speaker 1: we're like they were flying so close, but also just
Speaker 1: an absolute thrill.
Speaker 2: That must that must have been one of those days
Speaker 2: where it just have the fun. It's like, I can't
Speaker 2: believe we're doing this.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's so many of every day to
Speaker 1: me on a movie set is I can't leave. I'm
Speaker 1: doing this. It is truly the most fun thing in
Speaker 1: the world. I can't believe I get to do it.
Speaker 1: That's nice. So this lawsuit was one of the earliest
Speaker 1: class actions in Massachusetts and one of the first examples
Speaker 1: of pursuing corporate accountability and regulation. They proved that a
Speaker 1: corporation could be held accountable for negligence, putting a pin
Speaker 1: in the era of unquestioned support for big business. And
Speaker 1: this was the beginning of a greater governmental oversight and regulations,
Speaker 1: in essence a small way of setting the groundwork for
Speaker 1: FDR's New Deal Politics and Infrastructure reform a few decades later.
Speaker 1: It does make me think of this story, that this
Speaker 1: story would make a good documentary. Dan. When you start
Speaker 1: to approach a story, how often do you sort of
Speaker 1: have assumptions or expectations of what the ending might be.
Speaker 2: Usually I'll go, if I'm doing something, I will go
Speaker 2: into it with like three or four possibilities of where
Speaker 2: I think the ending is, so you can't just go blind.
Speaker 2: But I always have some idea so that if if
Speaker 2: one way doesn't work out, I'm not screwed. I still
Speaker 2: I still there's still another sort of way to sort
Speaker 2: of finish the story in a satisfying way. So I
Speaker 2: like to consider the possibilities because because and hopefully one
Speaker 2: of them will be the one that happens.
Speaker 1: That's how I did.
Speaker 2: But I like complexity, I really do. It's what makes
Speaker 2: it interesting.
Speaker 1: Sure. And and there's that old adage about documentaries that
Speaker 1: the best ones are the sort of ones that that
Speaker 1: make a left turn somewhere in the process. Your amazing piece,
Speaker 1: the line about the Navy seal Eddie Gallagher, that was
Speaker 1: that was a that was an incredible that had a
Speaker 1: very surprising ending to me because you kind of like
Speaker 1: somehow your how you handled that him as an interview
Speaker 1: subject gave him a sense of safety or comfort or
Speaker 1: or wanting to be transparent or something powerful that that
Speaker 1: I won't spoil for listeners, but he shared some just
Speaker 1: really breath taking points of view that I was very
Speaker 1: very affected and moved and stunned by that one.
Speaker 2: Wow, oh, I'm so that's so nice to you to say, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was an absolutely incredible conversation and I was stunned
Speaker 2: as well. And I still I listened to that like
Speaker 2: six months ago. I was looking for something and just
Speaker 2: trying to remember how it went down, and still like,
Speaker 2: I can't I can't believe he said it, the things
Speaker 2: he said, And yeah, it was really a shocker. It
Speaker 2: was a shocker but fascinating. Well.
Speaker 1: I think it's due it in large part to how
Speaker 1: lovely you are, Dan Tubirsky.
Speaker 2: Thank you. That's what he said too. Yeah, he said, Dad,
Speaker 2: I know him an ABC, but you're pretty lovely. Thanks man.
Speaker 1: So jumping back into it, here's a fun fact. The
Speaker 1: molasses industry in Boston never regained its prominence. Investigations for
Speaker 1: Yeah but a sad story. Investigations were opened in the
Speaker 1: years following, and they found a host of problems with
Speaker 1: the tank construction. The tank was made with too little
Speaker 1: of the metal manganese, so it was too brittle in
Speaker 1: temperatures below sixty degrees, which for Boston would be like
Speaker 1: most of the time, and the steel used was thinner
Speaker 1: than would be specified in the plans. Due to the
Speaker 1: scrutiny and the year's long lawsuit, USIA never built a
Speaker 1: new tank and eventually shuttered the doors of their Boston
Speaker 1: production plant entirely. Without the Molasses Giant, the Boston molasses
Speaker 1: industry collapsed. So clearly the impact of this event stuck
Speaker 1: both in the hearts of those in Boston and in
Speaker 1: the history of corporate regulation that we see today. After
Speaker 1: the flood, Boston was techie for weeks. No winks there.
Speaker 1: I'm using the word tacky. Literally, Boston was tacky for weeks.
Speaker 1: And legend has it that on hot summer days it
Speaker 1: still smells like molasses.
Speaker 2: Amazing. I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: It must have been weeks and weeks and weeks to
Speaker 2: get that sort of stickiness and smell out. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just it's really amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, molasses is a is no joke.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's no joke.
Speaker 1: Like you don't want it, Like it's hard to get
Speaker 1: that out of a shirt, is let alone out of
Speaker 1: a city. I love this story. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: tragic story in Boston's history. It's to me, it's such
Speaker 1: a city specific story that it reminds me of the
Speaker 1: Great Fires of Chicago or San Francisco. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: and it has that apocac because it's molasses. It has
Speaker 1: this kind of apocryphal feel that it's like so wild,
Speaker 1: like the like Miss O'Leary's cow in Chicago that kicked
Speaker 1: over the lantern. Supposedly, these stories sort of reach almost
Speaker 1: like a fable status or or sort of like urban mythology,
Speaker 1: but they're totally true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible.
Speaker 1: I did a little bit of digging and found that
Speaker 1: class action lawsuits have reached an all time high in
Speaker 1: the last three years, with over one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: nine billion dollars in settlements. Now, class action suits obviously
Speaker 1: have their pros and cons. While they might help a
Speaker 1: broader group to gain lower cost of litigation and incentivize
Speaker 1: them to pursue their rights, they've also drawn criticism for
Speaker 1: leading to lower payouts, inflated benefits to lawyers, and loss
Speaker 1: of individual control. But I've always thought the right to
Speaker 1: class action suit is actually quite inspiring and a great
Speaker 1: tool for consumer protection. It's it's almost like the right
Speaker 1: to collective bargaining on like for for unions, Like when
Speaker 1: you know, large groups of people that don't have a
Speaker 1: voice when they work together can actually have a very
Speaker 1: powerful voice. And I've always thought the the anti union
Speaker 1: sentiment in our country is very confusing, especially coming from
Speaker 1: the right, because it's such a it's such a free
Speaker 1: speech uh to me, it's it's the ultimate expression of
Speaker 1: free spreech of free speech. It's just saying, like how
Speaker 1: do we how can we get together and like and
Speaker 1: uh and like be a louder voice when traditionally it's
Speaker 1: the wealthy and the powerful that have the loudest voices.
Speaker 2: Well, it's also a part, it's part of how you
Speaker 2: make economies where especially with with things like class action
Speaker 2: lawsuits and and labor is like it's it's how you
Speaker 2: make economies work more efficiently. Like like, if you don't
Speaker 2: let individuals act as groups to sort of increase their
Speaker 2: power to the size that it should be, you're not,
Speaker 2: it's all then the whole thing's.
Speaker 1: Out of whack, all right, Dan Debirsky, is there anything
Speaker 1: in your professional world that you can plug or talk
Speaker 1: about or or spill any beans tease us with. You're
Speaker 1: the exciting things that you're up to. You're one of
Speaker 1: my favorite podcasters in the world. What What's What's what's
Speaker 1: on deck?
Speaker 2: I'm I'm working on two things, both will come out
Speaker 2: next year, both of which I can't disclose, but I
Speaker 2: think they're both going to be good. They're different. And
Speaker 2: the one, the one that's coming on next actually has
Speaker 2: Italian anarchists the nineteen twenties, which I which I was
Speaker 2: so excited to talk about.
Speaker 1: Right, it's connected as I said earlier, Go do a
Speaker 1: deep dive on Dan Tabirski's work so that you're prepared
Speaker 1: for how awesome these upcoming projects are going to be.
Speaker 1: And also, yeah, you're ouvra. I like that good good word.
Speaker 1: And also congratulations to both of us for winning a
Speaker 1: Peabody on this episode. I assume and see the awards there. Yeah, Dan,
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for coming on. It's so
Speaker 1: so fun to see you and hang out. Thanks for
Speaker 1: being here.
Speaker 2: So great to see you man anytime.
Speaker 1: All right, cheers. SNAPFHO is a production of iHeart Podcasts
Speaker 1: and Snapfoo Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and
Speaker 1: Pacific Electric Picture Company. Our post production studio is Gilded Audio.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner,
Speaker 1: Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan. This episode was
Speaker 1: produced by Alyssa Martino and Tory Smith. Our video editor
Speaker 1: is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley.
Speaker 1: Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo and branding by
Speaker 1: The Collected Works. Legal review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson
Speaker 1: and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn,
Speaker 1: Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson,
Speaker 1: Kerry Leeberman, Nikki Etoor, Nathan Otowski and Alex Corral. While
Speaker 1: I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy
Speaker 1: of my book, Snapboo, The Definitive Guide to History's great
Speaker 1: just screw Ups. It's available now from any book retailer.
Speaker 1: Just go to snapoo dashbook dot com. Thanks for listening,
Speaker 1: and see you next week.