WEBVTT - S4E10: Dan Taberski and the Great Molasses Flood

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<v Speaker 1>I already like you. You don't have to like burnish

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<v Speaker 1>your image with me, verymage.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just trying to be honest and lovely.

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<v Speaker 1>God bless you for that. You are lovely. Goddamn it.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to SNAFU, the Show about history's greatest screw ups.

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<v Speaker 1>I am your host ed helms, and today I am

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<v Speaker 1>joined by an incredible documentarian, producer, director, and podcaster, extraordinary

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<v Speaker 1>with some of the most incredible investigative skills in the biz.

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<v Speaker 1>A few of his most memorable hits include Missing Richard Simmons,

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<v Speaker 1>nine to twelve, The Line, and most recently, the Ambis

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<v Speaker 1>and Apple Podcast of the Year, Hysterical and Way Before

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<v Speaker 1>all of that, he was also my former colleague from

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<v Speaker 1>The Daily Show. I am talking about the amazing, illustrious Tuberski.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome Dan, it's me, Hi. Hi, how are you. I'm awesome,

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<v Speaker 1>So good to see you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's really good to see you too.

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<v Speaker 1>We worked together a very long time ago, and you've

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<v Speaker 1>done so many incredible things since then, and I am

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<v Speaker 1>enormously proud of you and proud to know you.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you. I feel the same way about you. It's

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<v Speaker 2>been half a lifetime since we worked together.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, pretty much. When was that you were your Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Show tenure? I started in two thousand and two and

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<v Speaker 1>went to two thousand and six.

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<v Speaker 2>I was ninety nine to two thousand and three.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, so we overlapped about two years maybe ye

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<v Speaker 1>and am and.

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<v Speaker 2>Two years that we just happened to win a Peabody.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that's right. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Coincidence, I don't know. You tell me, I don't think.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's that's why this this is our first collaboration

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<v Speaker 1>since then, and it's going to win a Peabody.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, this actual episode not going to win.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what we do, that's how we do it. So

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<v Speaker 1>we You and I collaborated on a number of secondments

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<v Speaker 1>in our Daily Show days, and one of the ones

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<v Speaker 1>I'm most proud of is in fact, a Dan Tabirsky segment,

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<v Speaker 1>a delightful little number called Guns for Tots. Explain the

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<v Speaker 1>premise of this, of this segment we did for the

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<v Speaker 1>Daily Show.

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<v Speaker 2>It was this guy who who wanted to make sure

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<v Speaker 2>he was he was?

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<v Speaker 1>What was he doing? He was libertarian? Yeah, he was

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<v Speaker 1>a libertarian.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was a libertarian guy and he was and

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<v Speaker 2>he was protesting the existence of a law that was

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<v Speaker 2>trying to keep guns away from kids, Like if you

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<v Speaker 2>had a squirt gun, you had to like painted bright

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<v Speaker 2>pink so it didn't look like a gun. So some

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<v Speaker 2>kid didn't get shot by accident by a cop. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And he was just up in arms.

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<v Speaker 1>He felt like this was government overreach, that the government

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<v Speaker 1>would have the audacity to uh to interfere with someone's

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<v Speaker 1>right to arm their children. And this is all true,

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<v Speaker 1>this is real. This is the real stuff that we

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<v Speaker 1>did a satirical about. But the real premise was this

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<v Speaker 1>guy had a very provocative toy drive called Guns for Tots,

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<v Speaker 1>in which he gave toy guns two children in Harlem,

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<v Speaker 1>New York, and we went and covered.

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<v Speaker 2>It and we treated him like like.

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<v Speaker 1>Like the hero. He's a warrior.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a justice warrior.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a justice warrior.

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<v Speaker 2>He was like making a difference.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, guy, I'll never forget our the The segment closed

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<v Speaker 1>with him talking about how he wants to he can't

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<v Speaker 1>wait to buy guns for his children, his own children,

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<v Speaker 1>and we cut to our amazing editor at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>Ainer had a beautiful little daughter and do you remember this.

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<v Speaker 1>We filmed her playing with a with a toy gun

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<v Speaker 1>that had been painted black and looked very real, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's like this, the sweetest, most horrifying juxtaposition of a

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<v Speaker 1>child with what looks like a glock.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's incredible, it's incredible. It's an amazing visual.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's crazy. How long ago that was. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get into today's snap. Who it is. It's quite

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<v Speaker 1>a doozy this one. Are you ready? Yeah, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>here we go. Imagine this. It's January nineteen nineteen. You

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<v Speaker 1>and I are strolling the North End of Boston together

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<v Speaker 1>on a brisk forty degree day for Boston. Of course,

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<v Speaker 1>this is actually shorts and t shirt weather.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, super nice.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, the North End is Boston's version of Little Italy.

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<v Speaker 1>At this time, there are about four hundred thousand people

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<v Speaker 1>crammed within a square mile of tightly wound streets, enjoying

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<v Speaker 1>their mid day chowders and packing the caz. Although they're

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<v Speaker 1>Italian though, so oh yeah right, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a weird combination.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Boston an Italian accent by caz of course, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean horse drawn carriages and trolley's. At the time, there

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<v Speaker 1>were over eight thousand of them in the city. Of

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<v Speaker 1>Boston car. Just to be clear, there were also cars,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was very early in the automobile time. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it was still just rich people who had cars

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<v Speaker 1>at that time.

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<v Speaker 2>That must have been such a mess having to figure

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<v Speaker 2>out how to navigate cars and horses on the same roads.

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<v Speaker 2>That must have been really confusing.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a great point. I mean that you're right that

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<v Speaker 1>transition must have been real hairy for a while.

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<v Speaker 2>And did they have horns on for horses like when

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<v Speaker 2>you were when you had a wagon, did you have

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<v Speaker 2>a horn or did they just do it with That's

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<v Speaker 2>not a bad question. I'm just I would be because

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<v Speaker 2>I know when they got cars, they would have horns, right,

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<v Speaker 2>horse drawing carriages have horns.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, all I know is that the cars of the

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<v Speaker 1>day sounded a lot like right, that was like the

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<v Speaker 1>car horn. Yeah, And I'm guessing if you were a

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<v Speaker 1>conscientious carriage driver, why wouldn't you have a horn on

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<v Speaker 1>your carriage?

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<v Speaker 2>Or bells?

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's bells, although they might scare the horses. You

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<v Speaker 1>gotta be careful. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Man.

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<v Speaker 1>So picture this. We're back there. It's January nineteen nineteen,

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<v Speaker 1>and suddenly the ground starts to shake. Is it an earthquake? Well, no, Dan,

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<v Speaker 1>it's probably the last thing you'd expect it to be.

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<v Speaker 1>A twenty five foot tall wave of thick, brown liquid

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<v Speaker 1>rushing straight towards us at thirty five miles an hour.

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<v Speaker 1>Any idea what it is?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, it's not a tsunami.

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<v Speaker 1>No, and it's not sewage either. Well that's good that

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<v Speaker 1>it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>It's brown. We know it's brown. It's a brown wave.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a wave.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's a liquid. It's oil. It's oil.

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<v Speaker 1>You're never gonna guess. It's so seemingly random and crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>It is molasses.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh fuck, that's a mess.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It was a massive tsunami of molasses that flooded

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<v Speaker 1>the north end of Boston. And it was it was

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<v Speaker 1>a very dire accident.

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<v Speaker 2>Where did it come from?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're gonna get into all of this, but so

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<v Speaker 1>just to understand how Boston got itself in to this

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<v Speaker 1>wicked pisse of a predicament, let's rewind. Let's go all

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<v Speaker 1>the way back to the beginning. And I'm not going

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<v Speaker 1>to throw any more bostonisms out because I can't even

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<v Speaker 1>do it right.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I like them. I think they're fun.

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<v Speaker 1>So, first, what you have to know is that molasses

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<v Speaker 1>was a major commodity of the day and a crucial

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<v Speaker 1>component of the Massachusetts economy in the early nineteen hundreds.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you a fan of molasses? Like, do you ever

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<v Speaker 1>consume molasses?

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<v Speaker 2>No, that feels like a Southern thing to cook.

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<v Speaker 1>With, for sure, it's definitely so. I grew up having

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<v Speaker 1>molasses on like breakfast biscuits and stuff. It's basically like

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<v Speaker 1>a very very strong syrup, is what it tastes like.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's delicious.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you aware of the many uses outside of cuisine

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<v Speaker 1>that molasses can be used for?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, because we're talking about Boston, I'm wondering if they

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<v Speaker 2>use it for like pitching boats and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's interesting. Could use like tar. Yeah, it's not quite

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<v Speaker 1>as strong as tar. It's it's much less viscous than tar.

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<v Speaker 1>So here are some other uses of molasses. Of course,

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<v Speaker 1>it's used to make rum. But did you also know

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<v Speaker 1>that it can be distilled into industrial alcohol and then

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<v Speaker 1>even broken down into its chemical components for use in explosives.

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<v Speaker 1>So it had some very strong industrial uses, and especially

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<v Speaker 1>at this time, because with the outbreak of World War One,

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<v Speaker 1>there was suddenly a massive increase in demand for industrial

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<v Speaker 1>alcohol and for explosives, and so therefore also huge demand

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<v Speaker 1>for molasses.

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<v Speaker 2>That's incredible.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so they had to have these massive storage

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<v Speaker 1>tanks all over the country for molasses of all.

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<v Speaker 2>You one more time? Yeah, where does molasses actually come from?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it tree? Sap? It is, so it's made from sugarcane.

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<v Speaker 1>At this time, it almost all came from the Caribbean.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why. That's why Caribbean rema is such a thing. Correct, interesting, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm learning.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen fifteen, a group called the United States Industrial

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<v Speaker 1>Alcohol Company we will heretofore refer to as USIA saw

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<v Speaker 1>an opportunity to capitalize on the growing popularity of molasses

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<v Speaker 1>and began construction on a three million gallon tank in

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<v Speaker 1>Boston's North Endow. Now, how big do you think this is?

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<v Speaker 1>Like if you had to like compare it to something,

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<v Speaker 1>how big is a three million gallon tank?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's got to be like just like one

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<v Speaker 2>of those things like that you see that hold the

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<v Speaker 2>water tanks, like.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, like at airports, like the is that like three million?

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<v Speaker 1>You know? I think it's much bigger. It's so this

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<v Speaker 1>is the size of four four and a half Olympic

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<v Speaker 1>sized swimming pools. It's fifty feet tall and nine defeat

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<v Speaker 1>in diameter. That is, that's a lot of molasses.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a lot of molasses. That's incredible.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, the idea was for USIA to supply their own

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<v Speaker 1>refineries with raw molasses instead of relying on other companies,

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<v Speaker 1>thereby cutting out the middleman. And the company was expecting

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<v Speaker 1>a massive molasses shipment from Cuba. So naturally, USIA being

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<v Speaker 1>a large classic American American industrial corporation, that's all about

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<v Speaker 1>the bottom line, they needed to rush the construction of

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<v Speaker 1>this giant molasses tank. So a man named Arthur Pgel

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<v Speaker 1>had been hired to oversee the molasses tank project, despite

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<v Speaker 1>having zero engineering background whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry Gel ju no.

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<v Speaker 1>J e ll okay got Arthur Pgel? Yeah, it is

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<v Speaker 1>a funny last name, especially considering that we're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>a viscous substance. Ye. Well, he was able to deliver

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<v Speaker 1>on the two most important criteria, making this thing fast

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<v Speaker 1>and making it cheap. So allegedly, Gel and his team

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<v Speaker 1>did not even test this giant vat before putting it

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<v Speaker 1>into use. You know, you would want to like fill

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<v Speaker 1>it with water at least and just see if it works. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't. They didn't even test it, so right away,

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<v Speaker 1>this vat is leaking constantly, so much so that neighborhood

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<v Speaker 1>kids were bringing buckets to catch the drippings for a snack.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you a finicky eater? Or are you? Are you

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<v Speaker 1>like George Castanza?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean if somebody said, hey, you want a bucket

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<v Speaker 2>of molasses, I wouldn't say no. I wouldn't throw a

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<v Speaker 2>bucket of molasses out of bed.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure it would be good in bed. Who knows.

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<v Speaker 1>So this tank was not working well from the get go.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, every time the tank was filled, the groaning

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<v Speaker 1>of the metal could be heard by nearby residents, a

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<v Speaker 1>clear indication that something was a miss with the structural

0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.880
<v Speaker 1>integrity of the tank. Self complaints naturally came flooding in.

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<v Speaker 1>So what did this company USIA do, especially because there

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<v Speaker 1>was so much visible leakage all around the tank? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>they painted the tank brown to disguise all the leaks.

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<v Speaker 1>That'll make the problem go away.

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<v Speaker 2>Just yeah, this is wild.

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<v Speaker 1>This is really wild because it's something we see a

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<v Speaker 1>lot in our SNAFU research here at the Snaffoo podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>People do not do the right thing. Just trying to

0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.720
<v Speaker 1>cover their tracks or put band aids on terrible situations

0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.720
<v Speaker 1>is like the norm. That's like, you know, at least

0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.960
<v Speaker 1>it is well, So this might surprise you. Molasses tank

0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.960
<v Speaker 1>failures were not uncommon during this time period. They happened

0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:46.760
<v Speaker 1>all over the US.

0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:48.000
<v Speaker 2>That's incredible.

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they happened all over the US, from New Orleans

0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.240
<v Speaker 1>to Oakland to Hoboken. But on the flip side, most

0:12:54.280 --> 0:13:05.120
<v Speaker 1>tanks were also not this enormous, like absolutely acid. On

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.880
<v Speaker 1>January fifteenth, nineteen nineteen, a ship arrived from the Caribbean

0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:13.679
<v Speaker 1>to pump a huge delivery of fresh, warm molasses into

0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.160
<v Speaker 1>the tank. Now, this is important to know. Like a

0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:23.520
<v Speaker 1>lot of liquids, as molasses gets warmer, it flows much quicker,

0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:28.559
<v Speaker 1>it has a lower viscosity. As it gets colder, it

0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:33.920
<v Speaker 1>gets way more viscous, and it flows very, very slowly

0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 1>and thicker. As soon as they pump this tank full

0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.320
<v Speaker 1>of molasses, something is off right away. No one considered

0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:45.200
<v Speaker 1>the fact that the tank was already half full of

0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.600
<v Speaker 1>cold molasses due to the previous days freezing New England temperatures.

0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.080
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like pouring super hot coffee into a

0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:57.480
<v Speaker 1>freezing cold glass. It shatters, right, because that is thermal shock.

0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.440
<v Speaker 1>This actually happened in my kitchen a bunch of years ago.

0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 1>I pour bacon grease into a cup and then put

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:06.600
<v Speaker 1>it in the fridge to let it harden, and then

0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.040
<v Speaker 1>I throw it away. Do you do that? Is that

0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.079
<v Speaker 1>like a No, that's a great idea because you can't

0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.400
<v Speaker 1>pour it down the sink because it'll clog your sink.

0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:14.120
<v Speaker 1>So you put it in the fridge and it gets

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.280
<v Speaker 1>it hardens, and then you can just sort of flip

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 1>it out into your trash can. So I had done

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.080
<v Speaker 1>this and forgotten about it, and so it was like

0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.760
<v Speaker 1>this cold bacon grease in my fridge. Then I made

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:28.360
<v Speaker 1>more bacon. I like bacon.

0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's just Jesus Christ and who cooks bacon?

0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.280
<v Speaker 2>That's what century is this?

0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:34.880
<v Speaker 1>What are you talking about?

0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.120
<v Speaker 2>You like fry up a pan of bacon in your house.

0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.080
<v Speaker 2>I've never I'm sorry, I'm just a little.

0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.240
<v Speaker 1>Shocked you've never cooked bacon in your.

0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:51.440
<v Speaker 2>House as a child. I just like a rasher of

0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 2>bacon is just I don't know, these very old fact Well,

0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:54.480
<v Speaker 2>I guess you're having.

0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Molasses too, remember Georgia. We eat bacon. So I had

0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:01.520
<v Speaker 1>another hot like this hot bacon grease and I'm gonna

0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.440
<v Speaker 1>dispose of it. So I just grabbed the cold glass

0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.160
<v Speaker 1>of cold grease from previously pour the hot grease in it,

0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:13.680
<v Speaker 1>and it sheered. It broke a perfect, perfect break along

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.480
<v Speaker 1>at the line of the cold grease and hot grease,

0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.800
<v Speaker 1>and I was holding a ring of glass like in

0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.280
<v Speaker 1>a perfectly clean break. And then of course all the

0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 1>bacon grease shattered all over the floor with broken glass. Wow,

0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 1>and one of the biggest messes I've ever made. Pretty gross.

0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:38.280
<v Speaker 1>My girlfriend at the time now wife helped me clean

0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.840
<v Speaker 1>it up, and I was like, this is an amazing

0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:44.360
<v Speaker 1>person who is willing to help me clean up bacon,

0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.880
<v Speaker 1>bacon grease and broken glass. That's a horrible mess.

0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it actually sounds like it mimics exactly what's about

0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:53.800
<v Speaker 2>to happen with the molasses.

0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.400
<v Speaker 1>That is part of what is about to go down

0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:02.920
<v Speaker 1>in this massive molasses tank. So people stated at the

0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:05.680
<v Speaker 1>time that they heard a rumble, thinking it was a

0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:09.840
<v Speaker 1>passing train, and then actually they started to hear machine

0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.560
<v Speaker 1>gun like sounds which were actually the fasteners popping off

0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.000
<v Speaker 1>the tank. Now all of this happened right in the

0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.480
<v Speaker 1>midst of lunch hour, when everyone was out and about

0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.160
<v Speaker 1>enjoying their warmer than usual January day. I don't even

0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.000
<v Speaker 1>know if anyone knows what a machine gun is in

0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.360
<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenty, but I'm still like getting out of there.

0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:32.520
<v Speaker 1>The gigantic vat bulged and broke, and in a flash,

0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:37.240
<v Speaker 1>two point three million gallons of molasses formed a massive

0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 1>wave and rushed into the North end of Boston. A

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 1>New York Times report described the event as quote A dull,

0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:49.320
<v Speaker 1>muffled roar gave but an instant's warning before the top

0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.960
<v Speaker 1>of the tank was blown into the air. Wagons, carts,

0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.560
<v Speaker 1>and motor trucks were overturned, a number of horses were killed.

0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.640
<v Speaker 1>The street was strewn with debris intermixed with malasse, and

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:05.919
<v Speaker 1>all traffic was stopped. Wow, they ended on. All traffic

0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.439
<v Speaker 1>was stopped, which seems like the most benign part of

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the incident. And all traffic was stopped.

0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:12.520
<v Speaker 2>Horses thing.

0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people died too, Dan, We're getting to that. Yeah, well,

0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:17.400
<v Speaker 1>the horses, but.

0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Just I mean, I'm just saying, you know that the

0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 2>people having to clean up the dead horses and molasses

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:22.919
<v Speaker 2>it was. That's a mess.

0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:27.200
<v Speaker 1>This is a massive snaffoo. It was an incredibly tragic event.

0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.880
<v Speaker 1>So the swell moved at thirty five miles an hour,

0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.480
<v Speaker 1>which is at the average speed of a cheetah. The

0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.679
<v Speaker 1>molasses was initially warm. We try to give you contact,

0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.600
<v Speaker 1>Dan now, I love it, I get it. So any

0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:42.960
<v Speaker 1>any cheetahs in the North end of Boston that day

0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:48.560
<v Speaker 1>were fine because they got out in time. So the

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.920
<v Speaker 1>molasses was initially warm from being initially added to the tank,

0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 1>but it quickly cooled as it spread through the streets,

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.280
<v Speaker 1>and this cooling caused it to thicken and become more viscous,

0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.400
<v Speaker 1>making rescue efforts extremely challenging. Here's a haunting quote from

0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:06.159
<v Speaker 1>the Boston Post. The next day, horses died like so

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.040
<v Speaker 1>many flies on sticky fly paper. The more they struggled,

0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.240
<v Speaker 1>the deeper in the mess they were ensnared. Human beings,

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:20.000
<v Speaker 1>men and women suffered likewise. It's grim. Wow. Grim. So

0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.000
<v Speaker 1>molasses is also one and a half times more dense

0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.200
<v Speaker 1>than water, So if you're in its path, you weren't

0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:29.000
<v Speaker 1>just like washed away. You were pummeled by this, right,

0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.360
<v Speaker 1>hit by it. Yeah, it's uh. It even pushed an

0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:37.720
<v Speaker 1>entire firehouse off its foundation. Wow, yeah, are you? Are

0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 1>you good in a disaster like this?

0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.399
<v Speaker 2>I think I would probably be a mess at first,

0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.520
<v Speaker 2>But I think if it was a long term disaster,

0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:45.760
<v Speaker 2>I think I would be one of the ones like

0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.680
<v Speaker 2>I can do apocalypse. I feel like I'm ready for

0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:49.680
<v Speaker 2>that to go down.

0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.520
<v Speaker 1>I have a very strong like urge to help. I

0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 1>will run towards someone in peril, but but I can't

0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:58.840
<v Speaker 1>guarantee you I'm not going to go into shack right.

0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.399
<v Speaker 1>So old buildings were crushed by this wave, and the

0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.200
<v Speaker 1>remaining pools of molasses were one to three feet deep

0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.880
<v Speaker 1>in some areas. According to records, one hundred and fifty

0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.280
<v Speaker 1>people were injured and twenty one were tragically killed in

0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.400
<v Speaker 1>the flood, many of whom worked for the harbor near

0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:18.800
<v Speaker 1>the vat's location. Injuries were severe. Patients were carried into

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.280
<v Speaker 1>a makeshift hospital with broken backs and fractured skulls, really

0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.600
<v Speaker 1>really dire stuff. Red crossworkers and a troop of one

0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.760
<v Speaker 1>hundred and sixteen Navy cadets who were nearby actually tried

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.439
<v Speaker 1>to swim through the molasses to rescue people, but to

0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:38.000
<v Speaker 1>no avail. At nightfall, the weather got cold, even colder,

0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.280
<v Speaker 1>and the molasses got even harder and thicker, so rescue

0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.960
<v Speaker 1>efforts just became next to impossible. Bodies were now getting

0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:51.200
<v Speaker 1>trapped in amber like crystallization, so it's almost like the

0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:58.080
<v Speaker 1>mosquito in Richard Address in his Cane. But yeah, very

0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.800
<v Speaker 1>very grim. So we do have some photos. I'm gonna

0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.800
<v Speaker 1>show you. This is an elevated train structure that was

0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:09.280
<v Speaker 1>just like massively Yeah, it almost knocked it over.

0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Wow, Oh my god. They must have been such a mess,

0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Like everybody just must have been covered in this shit.

0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because it's it's like, yes, it's a tragedy, but

0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.800
<v Speaker 1>it's also sticky and gooey. We have another photo as well.

0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.080
<v Speaker 1>This next one is uh is damage on Commercial Street.

0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:30.960
<v Speaker 1>You can actually see the collapsed tank in the center

0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.240
<v Speaker 1>of this image, just in front of the white colored buildings.

0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's so cool.

0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.160
<v Speaker 1>The rescue effort went on for four entire days, mainly

0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:44.120
<v Speaker 1>recovering bodies. The devastation was immense. Most of the victims

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.360
<v Speaker 1>had either suffocated or were crushed by debris that came

0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.000
<v Speaker 1>through the flood. The north end was a mess, and

0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:54.240
<v Speaker 1>molasses coated the debris, making it like to your point,

0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:58.879
<v Speaker 1>It was insanely hard to clean up, but they did

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:03.359
<v Speaker 1>finally find a hack. There was a really interesting discovery

0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.359
<v Speaker 1>on how to clean up molasses, any idea how to

0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:08.439
<v Speaker 1>clean up molasses?

0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:10.520
<v Speaker 2>It feels like one of those tricks where remember there

0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:12.679
<v Speaker 2>would be a plate of water and you would have

0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:14.639
<v Speaker 2>you to put like pepper and salt in it, and

0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.880
<v Speaker 2>then you'd put a drop of soap and the yeah,

0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.520
<v Speaker 2>and it sends everything to the edge. I feel something

0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:22.440
<v Speaker 2>like that, like some sort of like combination of things

0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:23.480
<v Speaker 2>that makes it dissipate.

0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, it's it's not that dramatic, but it is clever,

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Like I wouldn't have thought of it off the top

0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:34.359
<v Speaker 1>of my head. But it turns out seawater helps dissolve molasses.

0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh interesting.

0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why, but it does. And uh so, Yeah.

0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.439
<v Speaker 1>They started pumping water in from the Boston Harbor, and

0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.679
<v Speaker 1>after weeks of hosing down, the whole area of the

0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:50.879
<v Speaker 1>city was finally rid of the icky, sticky gew Most

0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.919
<v Speaker 1>of the molasses was washed into the Boston Harbor itself,

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.520
<v Speaker 1>and residents reported that the water was brown for weeks.

0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:00.399
<v Speaker 1>If only this coincided with the Boston tea part, right,

0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.160
<v Speaker 1>because then they might actually have a yummy new concoction

0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 1>floating around the Oh History tea fit tea and molasses,

0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:11.040
<v Speaker 1>the little Earl Gray with molasses in the Boston auvel.

0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.880
<v Speaker 2>That sounds nice. I can't believe. I've never heard of that.

0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 2>That's such a strange thing.

0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.880
<v Speaker 1>It's one of those weird things where it smells good,

0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:22.879
<v Speaker 1>so it's like a horrible tragedy but with a good smell.

0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:27.760
<v Speaker 1>I remember reading reports from these Iraq war veterans who

0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:32.680
<v Speaker 1>talked about walking through carnage and being, you know, very

0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:39.119
<v Speaker 1>traumatized by what they're seeing, but also like a a

0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:44.040
<v Speaker 1>cologne delivery truck had exploded, and so there was this

0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:49.200
<v Speaker 1>like weird sweet stench of cologne washing while they're looking

0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:51.919
<v Speaker 1>at this carnage, and it just the cognitive dissonance of

0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 1>it was like it was like very traumatic for these guys.

0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Isn't that new? There was something about let that happened

0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 2>to New York as well, where every once in a

0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:02.520
<v Speaker 2>while in New York there a smell will come over

0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:05.800
<v Speaker 2>from New Jersey and if it's a sweet smell.

0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was a mystery. It was like a pancake smell. Yes, yes,

0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:11.160
<v Speaker 1>I remember that.

0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:14.160
<v Speaker 2>And I think I think there's there are situations where

0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:16.439
<v Speaker 2>actually that's like a bad sign if that happens, like

0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:18.200
<v Speaker 2>you like, it's something's.

0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Wrong, something's about to explode.

0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:22.240
<v Speaker 2>There's molasses.

0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:26.160
<v Speaker 1>New York City stinks like New York City does not

0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:29.400
<v Speaker 1>smell good. And if it suddenly does smell good, yeah,

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:35.240
<v Speaker 1>it's alarming, alarming. It's like someone's gotta gotta pee or

0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:37.760
<v Speaker 1>take a ship right near me. So that just to

0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:41.720
<v Speaker 1>normalize this, because but I remember that that with the

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:44.840
<v Speaker 1>pancake smell that they couldn't identify it for I don't

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:46.840
<v Speaker 1>know if they ever did, but I don't think that

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.879
<v Speaker 1>is that was wild. This one where they cleaned it

0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:54.720
<v Speaker 1>with seawater, that is a stark replacement, right, because seawater

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:59.760
<v Speaker 1>don't smell good. Yeah, so you like washing seawater through the.

0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Stream, Yeah, that's gonna smelled good. Back then I saw

0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:04.879
<v Speaker 2>horseshit and molasses.

0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:07.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're right, you're right.

0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like it was nothing smelled good.

0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.359
<v Speaker 1>So what happened next? Countless accusations were thrown around in

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:22.679
<v Speaker 1>the weeks following the disaster. A class action lawsuit, of

0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:27.159
<v Speaker 1>course UH Door versus the United States Industrial Alcohol Company

0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:29.800
<v Speaker 1>was filed by one hundred nineteen residents. Okay, so this

0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:37.240
<v Speaker 1>is wild. So Usia blamed Italian anarchists, oh the for

0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:40.720
<v Speaker 1>an attack on the molasses tank. The accusation had an

0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:45.960
<v Speaker 1>inkling of plausibility to it because anarchists had targeted USIA

0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:47.200
<v Speaker 1>facilities during the war.

0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Anarchists doing bombings were a big deal in the early

0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 2>part of this century.

0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:53.960
<v Speaker 1>That's absolutely true. The good old blame the anarchists. Excuse,

0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:58.240
<v Speaker 1>do you have any good, like get out of jail cards?

0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Any good? Any good?

0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:05.679
<v Speaker 2>Exclaims anarchists. Yeahsts, you take responsibility. I take responsibility. I'm

0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:07.320
<v Speaker 2>a yeah, I take responsibility.

0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Come on, Dan, I already like you. You don't have

0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:11.160
<v Speaker 1>to like burnish your image with me.

0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:14.359
<v Speaker 2>Trying to burnage. I'm just trying to be honest and lovely.

0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm just trying to be honest and lovely. God bless

0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:25.240
<v Speaker 1>you for that. You are lovely. Goddamn it you, God,

0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:29.960
<v Speaker 1>you are a goddamn lovely person. All right, back to it.

0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Italian Americans, who were often discriminated against and accused of

0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:36.120
<v Speaker 1>being criminals at that time, were the ones thrown under

0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:39.560
<v Speaker 1>the bus here. After all, the that was put in

0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:43.960
<v Speaker 1>the distinct neighborhood of the North End because residents couldn't

0:25:44.040 --> 0:25:47.360
<v Speaker 1>advocate for themselves. This is obviously a very common practice

0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:51.439
<v Speaker 1>in the United States. Low income neighborhoods are often the

0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:56.960
<v Speaker 1>sites of industrial processes and wastelands. So the North End

0:25:57.080 --> 0:26:00.520
<v Speaker 1>was majority Italian, and only twenty five percent of these

0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Italians were actually citizens at the time with the ability

0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:08.200
<v Speaker 1>to vote or affect change of any kind. The corporations

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:12.080
<v Speaker 1>knew they were safe to effectively misbehave in these environments,

0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:14.960
<v Speaker 1>which is very tragic. These corporations are not lovely like you.

0:26:15.359 --> 0:26:16.240
<v Speaker 1>They are not lovely like that.

0:26:16.320 --> 0:26:17.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't even try.

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:20.640
<v Speaker 1>No, they are very UNTOBURSKII like. I don't like that.

0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:21.439
<v Speaker 2>It's not nice.

0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:25.240
<v Speaker 1>This lawsuit was one of the earliest class actions in

0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:27.960
<v Speaker 1>the state of Massachusetts and one of the first examples

0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:32.760
<v Speaker 1>of pursuing corporate accountability and regulation. The lawsuit took several years.

0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:36.680
<v Speaker 1>Over a thousand people testified, including family of the victims,

0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 1>and there were fifteen hundred evidence exhibits. The defense spent

0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:45.080
<v Speaker 1>tens of thousands of dollars on expert witnesses, and the judge,

0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:51.480
<v Speaker 1>Hugh w Ogden, was a war veteran who allegedly hated anarchists. Essentially,

0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:55.280
<v Speaker 1>everyone felt that this case was a massive long shot

0:26:55.320 --> 0:26:57.200
<v Speaker 1>for the plaintiffs. What do you think? How are you

0:26:57.200 --> 0:26:59.679
<v Speaker 1>feeling about their odds? We all love a courtroom drama.

0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:03.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, been Italians back then, Like they didn't they I

0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:04.879
<v Speaker 2>don't think they went. I think they lost.

0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:11.119
<v Speaker 1>Surprise, surprise. A nineteen twenty five judge Ogden shockingly ruled

0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:13.480
<v Speaker 1>in favor of the plaintiffs. I mean, I say shocking

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:18.200
<v Speaker 1>because of your your correct assumptions that it was very

0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:21.119
<v Speaker 1>unusual at the time, even though it was obviously the

0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:23.280
<v Speaker 1>right thing to do so. For anyone keeping score at home,

0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:28.200
<v Speaker 1>that means they were deliberating testimonies for nearly five whole

0:27:28.320 --> 0:27:32.399
<v Speaker 1>years before the decision was made. The USIA's claim of

0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:37.040
<v Speaker 1>anarchist sabotage was tossed aside like a stale Boston brown

0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:44.680
<v Speaker 1>bread loaf. Instead, the USIA just go with it, all right,

0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 1>I didn't say where. Instead, the USIA was then made

0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:51.960
<v Speaker 1>to pay the victim's families, the City of Boston, and

0:27:52.200 --> 0:27:55.840
<v Speaker 1>the Boston Elevated Railroad Company six hundred twenty eight thousand

0:27:55.840 --> 0:28:00.480
<v Speaker 1>dollars in damages close to eleven million in today's dollars.

0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:02.120
<v Speaker 1>What would you do if you just like came into

0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:03.760
<v Speaker 1>a massive windfall like that, Dan.

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:05.720
<v Speaker 2>I would enjoy the feeling that I'll have enough money

0:28:05.760 --> 0:28:08.840
<v Speaker 2>to live till I die. I would just hang on

0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:15.000
<v Speaker 2>to it, all right, I mean, I'm in the future.

0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:17.359
<v Speaker 1>Even if it was I know, you would splurge on something,

0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:19.760
<v Speaker 1>even if it's just like a something at CVS. Like

0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:22.240
<v Speaker 1>what would you if you suddenly knew you were rich

0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:25.600
<v Speaker 1>beyond your wildest dreams? Like what would be my wildest dreams?

0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Or would you just go on Amazon and be like, yes,

0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:31.280
<v Speaker 1>I want that wall charger? I want them, Like.

0:28:31.800 --> 0:28:33.639
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've always thought it would be interesting. I

0:28:33.680 --> 0:28:36.560
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't want to ride a motorcycle like nothing too loud,

0:28:36.600 --> 0:28:38.480
<v Speaker 2>but I've always said it would feel really nice to

0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:41.760
<v Speaker 2>like a chopper, like to be driving slow, like down

0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:44.400
<v Speaker 2>the So I think I could really get into that

0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:46.360
<v Speaker 2>and like drive around like do little as on the

0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:49.320
<v Speaker 2>outer motorcycle man Nansen, just like tour the country and

0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:51.560
<v Speaker 2>find myself with my motorcycle.

0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:53.000
<v Speaker 1>And not just a motorcycle but a chopper with like

0:28:53.040 --> 0:28:56.160
<v Speaker 1>the wheel way out front. Well, I like that feeling.

0:28:56.480 --> 0:28:58.160
<v Speaker 2>I feel like you can't go that fast on that

0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:00.120
<v Speaker 2>it feels a little more sturdy than a regular I

0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:01.520
<v Speaker 2>like that, just like you can't.

0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:02.320
<v Speaker 1>I like that too.

0:29:02.720 --> 0:29:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's what I'm looking for a buddy to go

0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:06.200
<v Speaker 2>driving with.

0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Hit it on the hell we living? What would you do?

0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:13.480
<v Speaker 2>What would you do with if you just came into

0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:14.280
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of money.

0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:16.480
<v Speaker 1>I feel like it would be a ton of little

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:19.280
<v Speaker 1>dumb things, like I would just go to my favorite

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:23.720
<v Speaker 1>cattlehogs and be like that shirt this. Yeah totally, But

0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:25.480
<v Speaker 1>if there was a big splurge, I don't know. I've

0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:27.400
<v Speaker 1>always wanted to be a helicopter pilot.

0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:31.040
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I just think they're so cool.

0:29:31.040 --> 0:29:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Would you buy a helicopter?

0:29:32.600 --> 0:29:36.240
<v Speaker 1>I guess. I mean, how do you be a helicopter pilot? Like?

0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Do you rent them? How does it work? It seem

0:29:38.600 --> 0:29:39.280
<v Speaker 1>very expensive.

0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I think they're impractical, right, or maybe you share them,

0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:46.640
<v Speaker 2>maybe you like or maybe you like buy a share

0:29:46.680 --> 0:29:49.200
<v Speaker 2>in a helicopter or something like that. Helicopter pilot would

0:29:49.200 --> 0:29:50.200
<v Speaker 2>be fun, actually.

0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Obviously helicopters are. We use them in movies all the

0:29:52.760 --> 0:29:57.240
<v Speaker 1>time and on Hangover too, when we're shooting in Bangkok

0:29:57.680 --> 0:30:01.480
<v Speaker 1>on this speedboat and this helicopter pilot who who's supposedly

0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:08.160
<v Speaker 1>like the best, like you know, camera chopper pilot was

0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:10.600
<v Speaker 1>like zooming. We're going like sixty miles an hour on

0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:13.880
<v Speaker 1>this speedboat and he's like zooming right all around us.

0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:18.640
<v Speaker 1>And at one point he's like, we're zooming this way,

0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:22.720
<v Speaker 1>and he's going along next to us, like the chopper's

0:30:22.720 --> 0:30:26.160
<v Speaker 1>flying sideways and next to us, which is called crabbing.

0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:28.880
<v Speaker 1>It's like going sideways, but it's sixty miles an hour

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:31.000
<v Speaker 1>and he just sticks his hand out the window and

0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:35.280
<v Speaker 1>waves at us. We're like two hands on the wheel, buddy.

0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that must that must feel like freedom. That must

0:30:38.880 --> 0:30:41.840
<v Speaker 2>feel like credible to be riding around something that fascile

0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:43.160
<v Speaker 2>turns like that.

0:30:43.960 --> 0:30:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Still, Yeah, and it was so terrifying for us because

0:30:47.400 --> 0:30:50.280
<v Speaker 1>we're like they were flying so close, but also just

0:30:50.280 --> 0:30:51.240
<v Speaker 1>an absolute thrill.

0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:53.120
<v Speaker 2>That must that must have been one of those days

0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:54.600
<v Speaker 2>where it just have the fun. It's like, I can't

0:30:54.600 --> 0:30:55.520
<v Speaker 2>believe we're doing this.

0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:58.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, there's so many of every day to

0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:00.400
<v Speaker 1>me on a movie set is I can't leave. I'm

0:31:00.440 --> 0:31:03.800
<v Speaker 1>doing this. It is truly the most fun thing in

0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:05.360
<v Speaker 1>the world. I can't believe I get to do it.

0:31:05.840 --> 0:31:09.080
<v Speaker 1>That's nice. So this lawsuit was one of the earliest

0:31:09.080 --> 0:31:12.000
<v Speaker 1>class actions in Massachusetts and one of the first examples

0:31:12.000 --> 0:31:15.680
<v Speaker 1>of pursuing corporate accountability and regulation. They proved that a

0:31:15.720 --> 0:31:19.200
<v Speaker 1>corporation could be held accountable for negligence, putting a pin

0:31:19.280 --> 0:31:24.400
<v Speaker 1>in the era of unquestioned support for big business. And

0:31:24.720 --> 0:31:29.320
<v Speaker 1>this was the beginning of a greater governmental oversight and regulations,

0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:32.800
<v Speaker 1>in essence a small way of setting the groundwork for

0:31:32.920 --> 0:31:37.640
<v Speaker 1>FDR's New Deal Politics and Infrastructure reform a few decades later.

0:31:38.000 --> 0:31:41.240
<v Speaker 1>It does make me think of this story, that this

0:31:41.280 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 1>story would make a good documentary. Dan. When you start

0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.040
<v Speaker 1>to approach a story, how often do you sort of

0:31:47.120 --> 0:31:50.320
<v Speaker 1>have assumptions or expectations of what the ending might be.

0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Usually I'll go, if I'm doing something, I will go

0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:57.800
<v Speaker 2>into it with like three or four possibilities of where

0:31:57.840 --> 0:32:00.400
<v Speaker 2>I think the ending is, so you can't just go blind.

0:32:01.800 --> 0:32:05.480
<v Speaker 2>But I always have some idea so that if if

0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:08.160
<v Speaker 2>one way doesn't work out, I'm not screwed. I still

0:32:08.200 --> 0:32:10.160
<v Speaker 2>I still there's still another sort of way to sort

0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:13.080
<v Speaker 2>of finish the story in a satisfying way. So I

0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:16.040
<v Speaker 2>like to consider the possibilities because because and hopefully one

0:32:16.040 --> 0:32:18.960
<v Speaker 2>of them will be the one that happens.

0:32:18.760 --> 0:32:19.720
<v Speaker 1>That's how I did.

0:32:20.040 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 2>But I like complexity, I really do. It's what makes

0:32:22.320 --> 0:32:22.720
<v Speaker 2>it interesting.

0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Sure. And and there's that old adage about documentaries that

0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:29.239
<v Speaker 1>the best ones are the sort of ones that that

0:32:29.360 --> 0:32:35.440
<v Speaker 1>make a left turn somewhere in the process. Your amazing piece,

0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:40.280
<v Speaker 1>the line about the Navy seal Eddie Gallagher, that was

0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:44.160
<v Speaker 1>that was a that was an incredible that had a

0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:47.400
<v Speaker 1>very surprising ending to me because you kind of like

0:32:48.800 --> 0:32:53.880
<v Speaker 1>somehow your how you handled that him as an interview

0:32:53.960 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 1>subject gave him a sense of safety or comfort or

0:33:01.760 --> 0:33:07.240
<v Speaker 1>or wanting to be transparent or something powerful that that

0:33:07.320 --> 0:33:11.680
<v Speaker 1>I won't spoil for listeners, but he shared some just

0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:15.560
<v Speaker 1>really breath taking points of view that I was very

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:19.760
<v Speaker 1>very affected and moved and stunned by that one.

0:33:20.240 --> 0:33:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Wow, oh, I'm so that's so nice to you to say, Yeah,

0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:26.440
<v Speaker 2>it was an absolutely incredible conversation and I was stunned

0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:29.160
<v Speaker 2>as well. And I still I listened to that like

0:33:29.280 --> 0:33:31.120
<v Speaker 2>six months ago. I was looking for something and just

0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:33.920
<v Speaker 2>trying to remember how it went down, and still like,

0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:37.000
<v Speaker 2>I can't I can't believe he said it, the things

0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:39.120
<v Speaker 2>he said, And yeah, it was really a shocker. It

0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:40.760
<v Speaker 2>was a shocker but fascinating. Well.

0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:43.040
<v Speaker 1>I think it's due it in large part to how

0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:44.440
<v Speaker 1>lovely you are, Dan Tubirsky.

0:33:45.320 --> 0:33:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. That's what he said too. Yeah, he said, Dad,

0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:52.800
<v Speaker 2>I know him an ABC, but you're pretty lovely. Thanks man.

0:33:52.960 --> 0:33:55.959
<v Speaker 1>So jumping back into it, here's a fun fact. The

0:33:56.000 --> 0:34:00.880
<v Speaker 1>molasses industry in Boston never regained its prominence. Investigations for

0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah but a sad story. Investigations were opened in the

0:34:05.640 --> 0:34:08.640
<v Speaker 1>years following, and they found a host of problems with

0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:12.080
<v Speaker 1>the tank construction. The tank was made with too little

0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:15.799
<v Speaker 1>of the metal manganese, so it was too brittle in

0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:18.960
<v Speaker 1>temperatures below sixty degrees, which for Boston would be like

0:34:19.080 --> 0:34:23.840
<v Speaker 1>most of the time, and the steel used was thinner

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:29.040
<v Speaker 1>than would be specified in the plans. Due to the

0:34:29.040 --> 0:34:32.440
<v Speaker 1>scrutiny and the year's long lawsuit, USIA never built a

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:35.120
<v Speaker 1>new tank and eventually shuttered the doors of their Boston

0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:39.440
<v Speaker 1>production plant entirely. Without the Molasses Giant, the Boston molasses

0:34:39.520 --> 0:34:46.720
<v Speaker 1>industry collapsed. So clearly the impact of this event stuck

0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:50.400
<v Speaker 1>both in the hearts of those in Boston and in

0:34:50.440 --> 0:34:53.479
<v Speaker 1>the history of corporate regulation that we see today. After

0:34:53.520 --> 0:34:59.279
<v Speaker 1>the flood, Boston was techie for weeks. No winks there.

0:34:59.320 --> 0:35:04.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm using the word tacky. Literally, Boston was tacky for weeks.

0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:07.000
<v Speaker 1>And legend has it that on hot summer days it

0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:09.560
<v Speaker 1>still smells like molasses.

0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Amazing. I love that.

0:35:12.000 --> 0:35:12.440
<v Speaker 1>I love that.

0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:16.880
<v Speaker 2>It must have been weeks and weeks and weeks to

0:35:16.960 --> 0:35:19.879
<v Speaker 2>get that sort of stickiness and smell out. I mean,

0:35:19.960 --> 0:35:21.480
<v Speaker 2>it's just it's really amazing.

0:35:21.560 --> 0:35:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, molasses is a is no joke.

0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's no joke.

0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:28.480
<v Speaker 1>Like you don't want it, Like it's hard to get

0:35:28.480 --> 0:35:30.840
<v Speaker 1>that out of a shirt, is let alone out of

0:35:30.840 --> 0:35:33.279
<v Speaker 1>a city. I love this story. It's a it's a

0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:36.799
<v Speaker 1>tragic story in Boston's history. It's to me, it's such

0:35:36.800 --> 0:35:40.320
<v Speaker 1>a city specific story that it reminds me of the

0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Great Fires of Chicago or San Francisco. It's like, you know,

0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:46.440
<v Speaker 1>and it has that apocac because it's molasses. It has

0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:50.200
<v Speaker 1>this kind of apocryphal feel that it's like so wild,

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:54.479
<v Speaker 1>like the like Miss O'Leary's cow in Chicago that kicked

0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:58.200
<v Speaker 1>over the lantern. Supposedly, these stories sort of reach almost

0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:02.879
<v Speaker 1>like a fable status or or sort of like urban mythology,

0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:04.400
<v Speaker 1>but they're totally true.

0:36:04.640 --> 0:36:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's incredible.

0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:09.440
<v Speaker 1>I did a little bit of digging and found that

0:36:09.560 --> 0:36:12.640
<v Speaker 1>class action lawsuits have reached an all time high in

0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:15.719
<v Speaker 1>the last three years, with over one hundred and fifty

0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:20.640
<v Speaker 1>nine billion dollars in settlements. Now, class action suits obviously

0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:24.120
<v Speaker 1>have their pros and cons. While they might help a

0:36:24.160 --> 0:36:28.160
<v Speaker 1>broader group to gain lower cost of litigation and incentivize

0:36:28.200 --> 0:36:32.360
<v Speaker 1>them to pursue their rights, they've also drawn criticism for

0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:37.320
<v Speaker 1>leading to lower payouts, inflated benefits to lawyers, and loss

0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:41.120
<v Speaker 1>of individual control. But I've always thought the right to

0:36:41.320 --> 0:36:45.560
<v Speaker 1>class action suit is actually quite inspiring and a great

0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:51.399
<v Speaker 1>tool for consumer protection. It's it's almost like the right

0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:55.879
<v Speaker 1>to collective bargaining on like for for unions, Like when

0:36:56.480 --> 0:36:58.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, large groups of people that don't have a

0:36:59.080 --> 0:37:02.480
<v Speaker 1>voice when they work together can actually have a very

0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:06.560
<v Speaker 1>powerful voice. And I've always thought the the anti union

0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:10.080
<v Speaker 1>sentiment in our country is very confusing, especially coming from

0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:13.400
<v Speaker 1>the right, because it's such a it's such a free

0:37:13.400 --> 0:37:18.400
<v Speaker 1>speech uh to me, it's it's the ultimate expression of

0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:21.279
<v Speaker 1>free spreech of free speech. It's just saying, like how

0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:24.320
<v Speaker 1>do we how can we get together and like and

0:37:24.440 --> 0:37:29.719
<v Speaker 1>uh and like be a louder voice when traditionally it's

0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:32.000
<v Speaker 1>the wealthy and the powerful that have the loudest voices.

0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's also a part, it's part of how you

0:37:33.920 --> 0:37:37.200
<v Speaker 2>make economies where especially with with things like class action

0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:41.640
<v Speaker 2>lawsuits and and labor is like it's it's how you

0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:44.719
<v Speaker 2>make economies work more efficiently. Like like, if you don't

0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:47.960
<v Speaker 2>let individuals act as groups to sort of increase their

0:37:47.960 --> 0:37:52.120
<v Speaker 2>power to the size that it should be, you're not,

0:37:52.239 --> 0:37:53.560
<v Speaker 2>it's all then the whole thing's.

0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:56.239
<v Speaker 1>Out of whack, all right, Dan Debirsky, is there anything

0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:59.120
<v Speaker 1>in your professional world that you can plug or talk

0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:02.839
<v Speaker 1>about or or spill any beans tease us with. You're

0:38:02.960 --> 0:38:05.520
<v Speaker 1>the exciting things that you're up to. You're one of

0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:08.319
<v Speaker 1>my favorite podcasters in the world. What What's What's what's

0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:08.719
<v Speaker 1>on deck?

0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:11.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm working on two things, both will come out

0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:16.640
<v Speaker 2>next year, both of which I can't disclose, but I

0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:20.400
<v Speaker 2>think they're both going to be good. They're different. And

0:38:20.560 --> 0:38:23.520
<v Speaker 2>the one, the one that's coming on next actually has

0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Italian anarchists the nineteen twenties, which I which I was

0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:27.879
<v Speaker 2>so excited to talk about.

0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:31.840
<v Speaker 1>Right, it's connected as I said earlier, Go do a

0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:35.239
<v Speaker 1>deep dive on Dan Tabirski's work so that you're prepared

0:38:35.320 --> 0:38:38.000
<v Speaker 1>for how awesome these upcoming projects are going to be.

0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:42.000
<v Speaker 1>And also, yeah, you're ouvra. I like that good good word.

0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:47.319
<v Speaker 1>And also congratulations to both of us for winning a

0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:53.719
<v Speaker 1>Peabody on this episode. I assume and see the awards there. Yeah, Dan,

0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:55.880
<v Speaker 1>I can't thank you enough for coming on. It's so

0:38:55.880 --> 0:38:57.840
<v Speaker 1>so fun to see you and hang out. Thanks for

0:38:57.880 --> 0:38:58.360
<v Speaker 1>being here.

0:38:58.760 --> 0:39:01.160
<v Speaker 2>So great to see you man anytime.

0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:05.840
<v Speaker 1>All right, cheers. SNAPFHO is a production of iHeart Podcasts

0:39:05.920 --> 0:39:09.799
<v Speaker 1>and Snapfoo Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and

0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Pacific Electric Picture Company. Our post production studio is Gilded Audio.

0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Our executive producers are me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner,

0:39:19.040 --> 0:39:23.440
<v Speaker 1>Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan. This episode was

0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:27.440
<v Speaker 1>produced by Alyssa Martino and Tory Smith. Our video editor

0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:31.240
<v Speaker 1>is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley.

0:39:31.680 --> 0:39:35.080
<v Speaker 1>Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo and branding by

0:39:35.080 --> 0:39:39.400
<v Speaker 1>The Collected Works. Legal review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson

0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:43.239
<v Speaker 1>and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn,

0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:47.960
<v Speaker 1>Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson,

0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:53.919
<v Speaker 1>Kerry Leeberman, Nikki Etoor, Nathan Otowski and Alex Corral. While

0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:56.080
<v Speaker 1>I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy

0:39:56.160 --> 0:39:59.960
<v Speaker 1>of my book, Snapboo, The Definitive Guide to History's great

0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:03.719
<v Speaker 1>just screw Ups. It's available now from any book retailer.

0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:08.720
<v Speaker 1>Just go to snapoo dashbook dot com. Thanks for listening,

0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:10.200
<v Speaker 1>and see you next week.