1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: I already like you. You don't have to like burnish 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,399 Speaker 1: your image with me, verymage. 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 2: I'm just trying to be honest and lovely. 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: God bless you for that. You are lovely. Goddamn it. 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to SNAFU, the Show about history's greatest screw ups. 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: I am your host ed helms, and today I am 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: joined by an incredible documentarian, producer, director, and podcaster, extraordinary 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: with some of the most incredible investigative skills in the biz. 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: A few of his most memorable hits include Missing Richard Simmons, 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: nine to twelve, The Line, and most recently, the Ambis 11 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: and Apple Podcast of the Year, Hysterical and Way Before 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: all of that, he was also my former colleague from 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: The Daily Show. I am talking about the amazing, illustrious Tuberski. 14 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: Welcome Dan, it's me, Hi. Hi, how are you. I'm awesome, 15 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: So good to see you. 16 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really good to see you too. 17 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: We worked together a very long time ago, and you've 18 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: done so many incredible things since then, and I am 19 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: enormously proud of you and proud to know you. 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: Thank you. I feel the same way about you. It's 21 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: been half a lifetime since we worked together. 22 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much. When was that you were your Daily 23 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: Show tenure? I started in two thousand and two and 24 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: went to two thousand and six. 25 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: I was ninety nine to two thousand and three. 26 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so we overlapped about two years maybe ye 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: and am and. 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: Two years that we just happened to win a Peabody. 29 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right. I don't know. 30 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 2: Coincidence, I don't know. You tell me, I don't think. 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: So that's that's why this this is our first collaboration 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: since then, and it's going to win a Peabody. 33 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: It's like, this actual episode not going to win. 34 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: That's what we do, that's how we do it. So 35 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: we You and I collaborated on a number of secondments 36 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: in our Daily Show days, and one of the ones 37 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: I'm most proud of is in fact, a Dan Tabirsky segment, 38 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: a delightful little number called Guns for Tots. Explain the 39 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: premise of this, of this segment we did for the 40 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: Daily Show. 41 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: It was this guy who who wanted to make sure 42 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 2: he was he was? 43 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: What was he doing? He was libertarian? Yeah, he was 44 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: a libertarian. 45 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a libertarian guy and he was and 46 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: he was protesting the existence of a law that was 47 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: trying to keep guns away from kids, Like if you 48 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: had a squirt gun, you had to like painted bright 49 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: pink so it didn't look like a gun. So some 50 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 2: kid didn't get shot by accident by a cop. Yeah, 51 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: And he was just up in arms. 52 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: He felt like this was government overreach, that the government 53 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: would have the audacity to uh to interfere with someone's 54 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: right to arm their children. And this is all true, 55 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: this is real. This is the real stuff that we 56 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: did a satirical about. But the real premise was this 57 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: guy had a very provocative toy drive called Guns for Tots, 58 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: in which he gave toy guns two children in Harlem, 59 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: New York, and we went and covered. 60 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: It and we treated him like like. 61 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: Like the hero. He's a warrior. 62 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: He was a justice warrior. 63 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: He was a justice warrior. 64 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 2: He was like making a difference. 65 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, guy, I'll never forget our the The segment closed 66 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: with him talking about how he wants to he can't 67 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: wait to buy guns for his children, his own children, 68 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: and we cut to our amazing editor at the time, 69 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: Ainer had a beautiful little daughter and do you remember this. 70 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: We filmed her playing with a with a toy gun 71 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: that had been painted black and looked very real, and 72 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: it's like this, the sweetest, most horrifying juxtaposition of a 73 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: child with what looks like a glock. 74 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible, it's incredible. It's an amazing visual. 75 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: I mean it's crazy. How long ago that was. Well, 76 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: let's get into today's snap. Who it is. It's quite 77 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: a doozy this one. Are you ready? Yeah, all right, 78 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: here we go. Imagine this. It's January nineteen nineteen. You 79 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: and I are strolling the North End of Boston together 80 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: on a brisk forty degree day for Boston. Of course, 81 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: this is actually shorts and t shirt weather. 82 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, super nice. 83 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: Now, the North End is Boston's version of Little Italy. 84 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: At this time, there are about four hundred thousand people 85 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: crammed within a square mile of tightly wound streets, enjoying 86 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: their mid day chowders and packing the caz. Although they're 87 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: Italian though, so oh yeah right, yeah, yeah, I don't know. 88 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 2: It's a weird combination. 89 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, Boston an Italian accent by caz of course, I 90 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: mean horse drawn carriages and trolley's. At the time, there 91 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: were over eight thousand of them in the city. Of 92 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: Boston car. Just to be clear, there were also cars, 93 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: but it was very early in the automobile time. I 94 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: think it was still just rich people who had cars 95 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: at that time. 96 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: That must have been such a mess having to figure 97 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: out how to navigate cars and horses on the same roads. 98 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: That must have been really confusing. 99 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: That's a great point. I mean that you're right that 100 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: transition must have been real hairy for a while. 101 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: And did they have horns on for horses like when 102 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: you were when you had a wagon, did you have 103 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: a horn or did they just do it with That's 104 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 2: not a bad question. I'm just I would be because 105 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: I know when they got cars, they would have horns, right, 106 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: horse drawing carriages have horns. 107 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: Well, all I know is that the cars of the 108 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: day sounded a lot like right, that was like the 109 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: car horn. Yeah, And I'm guessing if you were a 110 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: conscientious carriage driver, why wouldn't you have a horn on 111 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: your carriage? 112 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 2: Or bells? 113 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: Maybe it's bells, although they might scare the horses. You 114 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: gotta be careful. I don't know. 115 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: Man. 116 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: So picture this. We're back there. It's January nineteen nineteen, 117 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 1: and suddenly the ground starts to shake. Is it an earthquake? Well, no, Dan, 118 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: it's probably the last thing you'd expect it to be. 119 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: A twenty five foot tall wave of thick, brown liquid 120 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: rushing straight towards us at thirty five miles an hour. 121 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: Any idea what it is? 122 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 2: Uh, it's not a tsunami. 123 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: No, and it's not sewage either. Well that's good that 124 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: it's not. 125 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: It's brown. We know it's brown. It's a brown wave. 126 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: It's a wave. 127 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,239 Speaker 2: It's it's a liquid. It's oil. It's oil. 128 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: You're never gonna guess. It's so seemingly random and crazy. 129 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: It is molasses. 130 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: Oh fuck, that's a mess. 131 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a massive tsunami of molasses that flooded 132 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: the north end of Boston. And it was it was 133 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: a very dire accident. 134 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 2: Where did it come from? 135 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna get into all of this, but so 136 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: just to understand how Boston got itself in to this 137 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: wicked pisse of a predicament, let's rewind. Let's go all 138 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: the way back to the beginning. And I'm not going 139 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: to throw any more bostonisms out because I can't even 140 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: do it right. 141 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: No, I like them. I think they're fun. 142 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: So, first, what you have to know is that molasses 143 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: was a major commodity of the day and a crucial 144 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: component of the Massachusetts economy in the early nineteen hundreds. 145 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: Are you a fan of molasses? Like, do you ever 146 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: consume molasses? 147 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: No, that feels like a Southern thing to cook. 148 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: With, for sure, it's definitely so. I grew up having 149 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: molasses on like breakfast biscuits and stuff. It's basically like 150 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: a very very strong syrup, is what it tastes like. 151 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: Yes, it's delicious. 152 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: Are you aware of the many uses outside of cuisine 153 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: that molasses can be used for? 154 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: Well, because we're talking about Boston, I'm wondering if they 155 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 2: use it for like pitching boats and stuff like that. 156 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: It's interesting. Could use like tar. Yeah, it's not quite 157 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: as strong as tar. It's it's much less viscous than tar. 158 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: So here are some other uses of molasses. Of course, 159 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: it's used to make rum. But did you also know 160 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: that it can be distilled into industrial alcohol and then 161 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: even broken down into its chemical components for use in explosives. 162 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: So it had some very strong industrial uses, and especially 163 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: at this time, because with the outbreak of World War One, 164 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: there was suddenly a massive increase in demand for industrial 165 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: alcohol and for explosives, and so therefore also huge demand 166 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: for molasses. 167 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 2: That's incredible. 168 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so they had to have these massive storage 169 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: tanks all over the country for molasses of all. 170 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: You one more time? Yeah, where does molasses actually come from? 171 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: Is it tree? Sap? It is, so it's made from sugarcane. 172 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: At this time, it almost all came from the Caribbean. 173 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: That's why. That's why Caribbean rema is such a thing. Correct, interesting, Okay, 174 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: I'm learning. 175 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifteen, a group called the United States Industrial 176 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: Alcohol Company we will heretofore refer to as USIA saw 177 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: an opportunity to capitalize on the growing popularity of molasses 178 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: and began construction on a three million gallon tank in 179 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: Boston's North Endow. Now, how big do you think this is? 180 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: Like if you had to like compare it to something, 181 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: how big is a three million gallon tank? 182 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: I mean it's got to be like just like one 183 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 2: of those things like that you see that hold the 184 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 2: water tanks, like. 185 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: Oh, like at airports, like the is that like three million? 186 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: You know? I think it's much bigger. It's so this 187 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: is the size of four four and a half Olympic 188 00:09:55,320 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: sized swimming pools. It's fifty feet tall and nine defeat 189 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: in diameter. That is, that's a lot of molasses. 190 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 2: That's a lot of molasses. That's incredible. 191 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: Now, the idea was for USIA to supply their own 192 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: refineries with raw molasses instead of relying on other companies, 193 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: thereby cutting out the middleman. And the company was expecting 194 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: a massive molasses shipment from Cuba. So naturally, USIA being 195 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: a large classic American American industrial corporation, that's all about 196 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: the bottom line, they needed to rush the construction of 197 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: this giant molasses tank. So a man named Arthur Pgel 198 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: had been hired to oversee the molasses tank project, despite 199 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: having zero engineering background whatsoever. 200 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 2: Sorry Gel ju no. 201 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: J e ll okay got Arthur Pgel? Yeah, it is 202 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: a funny last name, especially considering that we're talking about 203 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: a viscous substance. Ye. Well, he was able to deliver 204 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: on the two most important criteria, making this thing fast 205 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: and making it cheap. So allegedly, Gel and his team 206 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: did not even test this giant vat before putting it 207 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: into use. You know, you would want to like fill 208 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: it with water at least and just see if it works. Well. 209 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: They didn't. They didn't even test it, so right away, 210 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,479 Speaker 1: this vat is leaking constantly, so much so that neighborhood 211 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: kids were bringing buckets to catch the drippings for a snack. 212 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: Are you a finicky eater? Or are you? Are you 213 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: like George Castanza? 214 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 2: I mean if somebody said, hey, you want a bucket 215 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: of molasses, I wouldn't say no. I wouldn't throw a 216 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: bucket of molasses out of bed. 217 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: I'm not sure it would be good in bed. Who knows. 218 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: So this tank was not working well from the get go. 219 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: In fact, every time the tank was filled, the groaning 220 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: of the metal could be heard by nearby residents, a 221 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: clear indication that something was a miss with the structural 222 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: integrity of the tank. Self complaints naturally came flooding in. 223 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: So what did this company USIA do, especially because there 224 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: was so much visible leakage all around the tank? Well, 225 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: they painted the tank brown to disguise all the leaks. 226 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: That'll make the problem go away. 227 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 2: Just yeah, this is wild. 228 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: This is really wild because it's something we see a 229 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: lot in our SNAFU research here at the Snaffoo podcast. 230 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: People do not do the right thing. Just trying to 231 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: cover their tracks or put band aids on terrible situations 232 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: is like the norm. That's like, you know, at least 233 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: it is well, So this might surprise you. Molasses tank 234 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: failures were not uncommon during this time period. They happened 235 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: all over the US. 236 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 2: That's incredible. 237 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, they happened all over the US, from New Orleans 238 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: to Oakland to Hoboken. But on the flip side, most 239 00:12:54,280 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: tanks were also not this enormous, like absolutely acid. On 240 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: January fifteenth, nineteen nineteen, a ship arrived from the Caribbean 241 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: to pump a huge delivery of fresh, warm molasses into 242 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: the tank. Now, this is important to know. Like a 243 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: lot of liquids, as molasses gets warmer, it flows much quicker, 244 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: it has a lower viscosity. As it gets colder, it 245 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: gets way more viscous, and it flows very, very slowly 246 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: and thicker. As soon as they pump this tank full 247 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: of molasses, something is off right away. No one considered 248 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: the fact that the tank was already half full of 249 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: cold molasses due to the previous days freezing New England temperatures. 250 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: It's kind of like pouring super hot coffee into a 251 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: freezing cold glass. It shatters, right, because that is thermal shock. 252 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: This actually happened in my kitchen a bunch of years ago. 253 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: I pour bacon grease into a cup and then put 254 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: it in the fridge to let it harden, and then 255 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: I throw it away. Do you do that? Is that 256 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: like a No, that's a great idea because you can't 257 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: pour it down the sink because it'll clog your sink. 258 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: So you put it in the fridge and it gets 259 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: it hardens, and then you can just sort of flip 260 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: it out into your trash can. So I had done 261 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: this and forgotten about it, and so it was like 262 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: this cold bacon grease in my fridge. Then I made 263 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: more bacon. I like bacon. 264 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just Jesus Christ and who cooks bacon? 265 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: That's what century is this? 266 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: What are you talking about? 267 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 2: You like fry up a pan of bacon in your house. 268 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: I've never I'm sorry, I'm just a little. 269 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: Shocked you've never cooked bacon in your. 270 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: House as a child. I just like a rasher of 271 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: bacon is just I don't know, these very old fact Well, 272 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 2: I guess you're having. 273 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: Molasses too, remember Georgia. We eat bacon. So I had 274 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: another hot like this hot bacon grease and I'm gonna 275 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: dispose of it. So I just grabbed the cold glass 276 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: of cold grease from previously pour the hot grease in it, 277 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: and it sheered. It broke a perfect, perfect break along 278 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: at the line of the cold grease and hot grease, 279 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: and I was holding a ring of glass like in 280 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: a perfectly clean break. And then of course all the 281 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: bacon grease shattered all over the floor with broken glass. Wow, 282 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: and one of the biggest messes I've ever made. Pretty gross. 283 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: My girlfriend at the time now wife helped me clean 284 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: it up, and I was like, this is an amazing 285 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: person who is willing to help me clean up bacon, 286 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: bacon grease and broken glass. That's a horrible mess. 287 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it actually sounds like it mimics exactly what's about 288 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 2: to happen with the molasses. 289 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: That is part of what is about to go down 290 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: in this massive molasses tank. So people stated at the 291 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: time that they heard a rumble, thinking it was a 292 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: passing train, and then actually they started to hear machine 293 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: gun like sounds which were actually the fasteners popping off 294 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: the tank. Now all of this happened right in the 295 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: midst of lunch hour, when everyone was out and about 296 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: enjoying their warmer than usual January day. I don't even 297 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: know if anyone knows what a machine gun is in 298 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, but I'm still like getting out of there. 299 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: The gigantic vat bulged and broke, and in a flash, 300 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: two point three million gallons of molasses formed a massive 301 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: wave and rushed into the North end of Boston. A 302 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: New York Times report described the event as quote A dull, 303 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: muffled roar gave but an instant's warning before the top 304 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: of the tank was blown into the air. Wagons, carts, 305 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: and motor trucks were overturned, a number of horses were killed. 306 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: The street was strewn with debris intermixed with malasse, and 307 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: all traffic was stopped. Wow, they ended on. All traffic 308 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 1: was stopped, which seems like the most benign part of 309 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: the incident. And all traffic was stopped. 310 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: Horses thing. 311 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: A lot of people died too, Dan, We're getting to that. Yeah, well, 312 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: the horses, but. 313 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: Just I mean, I'm just saying, you know that the 314 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: people having to clean up the dead horses and molasses 315 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 2: it was. That's a mess. 316 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: This is a massive snaffoo. It was an incredibly tragic event. 317 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: So the swell moved at thirty five miles an hour, 318 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: which is at the average speed of a cheetah. The 319 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: molasses was initially warm. We try to give you contact, 320 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: Dan now, I love it, I get it. So any 321 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: any cheetahs in the North end of Boston that day 322 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: were fine because they got out in time. So the 323 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: molasses was initially warm from being initially added to the tank, 324 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: but it quickly cooled as it spread through the streets, 325 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: and this cooling caused it to thicken and become more viscous, 326 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: making rescue efforts extremely challenging. Here's a haunting quote from 327 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: the Boston Post. The next day, horses died like so 328 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: many flies on sticky fly paper. The more they struggled, 329 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: the deeper in the mess they were ensnared. Human beings, 330 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: men and women suffered likewise. It's grim. Wow. Grim. So 331 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: molasses is also one and a half times more dense 332 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: than water, So if you're in its path, you weren't 333 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: just like washed away. You were pummeled by this, right, 334 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: hit by it. Yeah, it's uh. It even pushed an 335 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: entire firehouse off its foundation. Wow, yeah, are you? Are 336 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: you good in a disaster like this? 337 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 2: I think I would probably be a mess at first, 338 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: But I think if it was a long term disaster, 339 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: I think I would be one of the ones like 340 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 2: I can do apocalypse. I feel like I'm ready for 341 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 2: that to go down. 342 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: I have a very strong like urge to help. I 343 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: will run towards someone in peril, but but I can't 344 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: guarantee you I'm not going to go into shack right. 345 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: So old buildings were crushed by this wave, and the 346 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: remaining pools of molasses were one to three feet deep 347 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: in some areas. According to records, one hundred and fifty 348 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: people were injured and twenty one were tragically killed in 349 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: the flood, many of whom worked for the harbor near 350 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: the vat's location. Injuries were severe. Patients were carried into 351 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: a makeshift hospital with broken backs and fractured skulls, really 352 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: really dire stuff. Red crossworkers and a troop of one 353 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: hundred and sixteen Navy cadets who were nearby actually tried 354 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: to swim through the molasses to rescue people, but to 355 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: no avail. At nightfall, the weather got cold, even colder, 356 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: and the molasses got even harder and thicker, so rescue 357 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: efforts just became next to impossible. Bodies were now getting 358 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: trapped in amber like crystallization, so it's almost like the 359 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: mosquito in Richard Address in his Cane. But yeah, very 360 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: very grim. So we do have some photos. I'm gonna 361 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: show you. This is an elevated train structure that was 362 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: just like massively Yeah, it almost knocked it over. 363 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: Wow, Oh my god. They must have been such a mess, 364 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 2: Like everybody just must have been covered in this shit. 365 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's it's like, yes, it's a tragedy, but 366 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: it's also sticky and gooey. We have another photo as well. 367 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: This next one is uh is damage on Commercial Street. 368 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: You can actually see the collapsed tank in the center 369 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: of this image, just in front of the white colored buildings. 370 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 2: Wow, that's so cool. 371 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: The rescue effort went on for four entire days, mainly 372 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: recovering bodies. The devastation was immense. Most of the victims 373 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: had either suffocated or were crushed by debris that came 374 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: through the flood. The north end was a mess, and 375 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: molasses coated the debris, making it like to your point, 376 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: It was insanely hard to clean up, but they did 377 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: finally find a hack. There was a really interesting discovery 378 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: on how to clean up molasses, any idea how to 379 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: clean up molasses? 380 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: It feels like one of those tricks where remember there 381 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 2: would be a plate of water and you would have 382 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 2: you to put like pepper and salt in it, and 383 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 2: then you'd put a drop of soap and the yeah, 384 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: and it sends everything to the edge. I feel something 385 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 2: like that, like some sort of like combination of things 386 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: that makes it dissipate. 387 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: Okay, it's it's not that dramatic, but it is clever, 388 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't have thought of it off the top 389 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: of my head. But it turns out seawater helps dissolve molasses. 390 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 2: Oh interesting. 391 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but it does. And uh so, Yeah. 392 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: They started pumping water in from the Boston Harbor, and 393 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: after weeks of hosing down, the whole area of the 394 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: city was finally rid of the icky, sticky gew Most 395 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: of the molasses was washed into the Boston Harbor itself, 396 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: and residents reported that the water was brown for weeks. 397 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: If only this coincided with the Boston tea part, right, 398 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: because then they might actually have a yummy new concoction 399 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: floating around the Oh History tea fit tea and molasses, 400 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: the little Earl Gray with molasses in the Boston auvel. 401 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 2: That sounds nice. I can't believe. I've never heard of that. 402 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 2: That's such a strange thing. 403 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: It's one of those weird things where it smells good, 404 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: so it's like a horrible tragedy but with a good smell. 405 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: I remember reading reports from these Iraq war veterans who 406 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: talked about walking through carnage and being, you know, very 407 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: traumatized by what they're seeing, but also like a a 408 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: cologne delivery truck had exploded, and so there was this 409 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: like weird sweet stench of cologne washing while they're looking 410 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: at this carnage, and it just the cognitive dissonance of 411 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: it was like it was like very traumatic for these guys. 412 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 2: Isn't that new? There was something about let that happened 413 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: to New York as well, where every once in a 414 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 2: while in New York there a smell will come over 415 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 2: from New Jersey and if it's a sweet smell. 416 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a mystery. It was like a pancake smell. Yes, yes, 417 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: I remember that. 418 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 2: And I think I think there's there are situations where 419 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 2: actually that's like a bad sign if that happens, like 420 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 2: you like, it's something's. 421 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: Wrong, something's about to explode. 422 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 2: There's molasses. 423 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: New York City stinks like New York City does not 424 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: smell good. And if it suddenly does smell good, yeah, 425 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: it's alarming, alarming. It's like someone's gotta gotta pee or 426 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: take a ship right near me. So that just to 427 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: normalize this, because but I remember that that with the 428 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: pancake smell that they couldn't identify it for I don't 429 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: know if they ever did, but I don't think that 430 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: is that was wild. This one where they cleaned it 431 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: with seawater, that is a stark replacement, right, because seawater 432 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: don't smell good. Yeah, so you like washing seawater through the. 433 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 2: Stream, Yeah, that's gonna smelled good. Back then I saw 434 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 2: horseshit and molasses. 435 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, you're right. 436 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it was nothing smelled good. 437 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: So what happened next? Countless accusations were thrown around in 438 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: the weeks following the disaster. A class action lawsuit, of 439 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: course UH Door versus the United States Industrial Alcohol Company 440 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: was filed by one hundred nineteen residents. Okay, so this 441 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: is wild. So Usia blamed Italian anarchists, oh the for 442 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: an attack on the molasses tank. The accusation had an 443 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: inkling of plausibility to it because anarchists had targeted USIA 444 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: facilities during the war. 445 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: Anarchists doing bombings were a big deal in the early 446 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 2: part of this century. 447 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: That's absolutely true. The good old blame the anarchists. Excuse, 448 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: do you have any good, like get out of jail cards? 449 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: Any good? Any good? 450 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 2: Exclaims anarchists. Yeahsts, you take responsibility. I take responsibility. I'm 451 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 2: a yeah, I take responsibility. 452 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: Come on, Dan, I already like you. You don't have 453 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: to like burnish your image with me. 454 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: Trying to burnage. I'm just trying to be honest and lovely. 455 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be honest and lovely. God bless 456 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: you for that. You are lovely. Goddamn it you, God, 457 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: you are a goddamn lovely person. All right, back to it. 458 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: Italian Americans, who were often discriminated against and accused of 459 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: being criminals at that time, were the ones thrown under 460 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: the bus here. After all, the that was put in 461 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: the distinct neighborhood of the North End because residents couldn't 462 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: advocate for themselves. This is obviously a very common practice 463 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: in the United States. Low income neighborhoods are often the 464 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: sites of industrial processes and wastelands. So the North End 465 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: was majority Italian, and only twenty five percent of these 466 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: Italians were actually citizens at the time with the ability 467 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: to vote or affect change of any kind. The corporations 468 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: knew they were safe to effectively misbehave in these environments, 469 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: which is very tragic. These corporations are not lovely like you. 470 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: They are not lovely like that. 471 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: I don't even try. 472 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: No, they are very UNTOBURSKII like. I don't like that. 473 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 2: It's not nice. 474 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: This lawsuit was one of the earliest class actions in 475 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: the state of Massachusetts and one of the first examples 476 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: of pursuing corporate accountability and regulation. The lawsuit took several years. 477 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: Over a thousand people testified, including family of the victims, 478 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: and there were fifteen hundred evidence exhibits. The defense spent 479 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars on expert witnesses, and the judge, 480 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: Hugh w Ogden, was a war veteran who allegedly hated anarchists. Essentially, 481 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: everyone felt that this case was a massive long shot 482 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: for the plaintiffs. What do you think? How are you 483 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: feeling about their odds? We all love a courtroom drama. 484 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, been Italians back then, Like they didn't they I 485 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 2: don't think they went. I think they lost. 486 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: Surprise, surprise. A nineteen twenty five judge Ogden shockingly ruled 487 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: in favor of the plaintiffs. I mean, I say shocking 488 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: because of your your correct assumptions that it was very 489 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: unusual at the time, even though it was obviously the 490 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: right thing to do so. For anyone keeping score at home, 491 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: that means they were deliberating testimonies for nearly five whole 492 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: years before the decision was made. The USIA's claim of 493 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: anarchist sabotage was tossed aside like a stale Boston brown 494 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: bread loaf. Instead, the USIA just go with it, all right, 495 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: I didn't say where. Instead, the USIA was then made 496 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: to pay the victim's families, the City of Boston, and 497 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: the Boston Elevated Railroad Company six hundred twenty eight thousand 498 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: dollars in damages close to eleven million in today's dollars. 499 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: What would you do if you just like came into 500 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: a massive windfall like that, Dan. 501 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 2: I would enjoy the feeling that I'll have enough money 502 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 2: to live till I die. I would just hang on 503 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: to it, all right, I mean, I'm in the future. 504 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: Even if it was I know, you would splurge on something, 505 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: even if it's just like a something at CVS. Like 506 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: what would you if you suddenly knew you were rich 507 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: beyond your wildest dreams? Like what would be my wildest dreams? 508 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: Or would you just go on Amazon and be like, yes, 509 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: I want that wall charger? I want them, Like. 510 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 2: You know, I've always thought it would be interesting. I 511 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 2: wouldn't want to ride a motorcycle like nothing too loud, 512 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 2: but I've always said it would feel really nice to 513 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 2: like a chopper, like to be driving slow, like down 514 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: the So I think I could really get into that 515 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 2: and like drive around like do little as on the 516 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 2: outer motorcycle man Nansen, just like tour the country and 517 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 2: find myself with my motorcycle. 518 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: And not just a motorcycle but a chopper with like 519 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: the wheel way out front. Well, I like that feeling. 520 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 2: I feel like you can't go that fast on that 521 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 2: it feels a little more sturdy than a regular I 522 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: like that, just like you can't. 523 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: I like that too. 524 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm looking for a buddy to go 525 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 2: driving with. 526 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: Hit it on the hell we living? What would you do? 527 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 2: What would you do with if you just came into 528 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 2: a bunch of money. 529 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: I feel like it would be a ton of little 530 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: dumb things, like I would just go to my favorite 531 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: cattlehogs and be like that shirt this. Yeah totally, But 532 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: if there was a big splurge, I don't know. I've 533 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: always wanted to be a helicopter pilot. 534 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 2: Huh. 535 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I just think they're so cool. 536 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: Would you buy a helicopter? 537 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: I guess. I mean, how do you be a helicopter pilot? Like? 538 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: Do you rent them? How does it work? It seem 539 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: very expensive. 540 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 2: I think they're impractical, right, or maybe you share them, 541 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 2: maybe you like or maybe you like buy a share 542 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 2: in a helicopter or something like that. Helicopter pilot would 543 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: be fun, actually. 544 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: Obviously helicopters are. We use them in movies all the 545 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: time and on Hangover too, when we're shooting in Bangkok 546 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: on this speedboat and this helicopter pilot who who's supposedly 547 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: like the best, like you know, camera chopper pilot was 548 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: like zooming. We're going like sixty miles an hour on 549 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: this speedboat and he's like zooming right all around us. 550 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: And at one point he's like, we're zooming this way, 551 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: and he's going along next to us, like the chopper's 552 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: flying sideways and next to us, which is called crabbing. 553 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: It's like going sideways, but it's sixty miles an hour 554 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: and he just sticks his hand out the window and 555 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: waves at us. We're like two hands on the wheel, buddy. 556 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 2: Wow, that must that must feel like freedom. That must 557 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 2: feel like credible to be riding around something that fascile 558 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 2: turns like that. 559 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: Still, Yeah, and it was so terrifying for us because 560 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: we're like they were flying so close, but also just 561 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: an absolute thrill. 562 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: That must that must have been one of those days 563 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 2: where it just have the fun. It's like, I can't 564 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 2: believe we're doing this. 565 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's so many of every day to 566 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: me on a movie set is I can't leave. I'm 567 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: doing this. It is truly the most fun thing in 568 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: the world. I can't believe I get to do it. 569 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: That's nice. So this lawsuit was one of the earliest 570 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: class actions in Massachusetts and one of the first examples 571 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: of pursuing corporate accountability and regulation. They proved that a 572 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: corporation could be held accountable for negligence, putting a pin 573 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: in the era of unquestioned support for big business. And 574 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: this was the beginning of a greater governmental oversight and regulations, 575 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: in essence a small way of setting the groundwork for 576 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: FDR's New Deal Politics and Infrastructure reform a few decades later. 577 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: It does make me think of this story, that this 578 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: story would make a good documentary. Dan. When you start 579 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: to approach a story, how often do you sort of 580 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: have assumptions or expectations of what the ending might be. 581 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: Usually I'll go, if I'm doing something, I will go 582 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 2: into it with like three or four possibilities of where 583 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 2: I think the ending is, so you can't just go blind. 584 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 2: But I always have some idea so that if if 585 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 2: one way doesn't work out, I'm not screwed. I still 586 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 2: I still there's still another sort of way to sort 587 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 2: of finish the story in a satisfying way. So I 588 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 2: like to consider the possibilities because because and hopefully one 589 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 2: of them will be the one that happens. 590 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: That's how I did. 591 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 2: But I like complexity, I really do. It's what makes 592 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 2: it interesting. 593 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: Sure. And and there's that old adage about documentaries that 594 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,239 Speaker 1: the best ones are the sort of ones that that 595 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: make a left turn somewhere in the process. Your amazing piece, 596 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: the line about the Navy seal Eddie Gallagher, that was 597 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: that was a that was an incredible that had a 598 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: very surprising ending to me because you kind of like 599 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: somehow your how you handled that him as an interview 600 00:32:53,960 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: subject gave him a sense of safety or comfort or 601 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: or wanting to be transparent or something powerful that that 602 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: I won't spoil for listeners, but he shared some just 603 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: really breath taking points of view that I was very 604 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: very affected and moved and stunned by that one. 605 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 2: Wow, oh, I'm so that's so nice to you to say, Yeah, 606 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 2: it was an absolutely incredible conversation and I was stunned 607 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: as well. And I still I listened to that like 608 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 2: six months ago. I was looking for something and just 609 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 2: trying to remember how it went down, and still like, 610 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 2: I can't I can't believe he said it, the things 611 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 2: he said, And yeah, it was really a shocker. It 612 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 2: was a shocker but fascinating. Well. 613 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: I think it's due it in large part to how 614 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: lovely you are, Dan Tubirsky. 615 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 2: Thank you. That's what he said too. Yeah, he said, Dad, 616 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 2: I know him an ABC, but you're pretty lovely. Thanks man. 617 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,959 Speaker 1: So jumping back into it, here's a fun fact. The 618 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: molasses industry in Boston never regained its prominence. Investigations for 619 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: Yeah but a sad story. Investigations were opened in the 620 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: years following, and they found a host of problems with 621 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: the tank construction. The tank was made with too little 622 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: of the metal manganese, so it was too brittle in 623 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: temperatures below sixty degrees, which for Boston would be like 624 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: most of the time, and the steel used was thinner 625 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: than would be specified in the plans. Due to the 626 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: scrutiny and the year's long lawsuit, USIA never built a 627 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: new tank and eventually shuttered the doors of their Boston 628 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: production plant entirely. Without the Molasses Giant, the Boston molasses 629 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:46,720 Speaker 1: industry collapsed. So clearly the impact of this event stuck 630 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: both in the hearts of those in Boston and in 631 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,479 Speaker 1: the history of corporate regulation that we see today. After 632 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: the flood, Boston was techie for weeks. No winks there. 633 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: I'm using the word tacky. Literally, Boston was tacky for weeks. 634 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: And legend has it that on hot summer days it 635 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: still smells like molasses. 636 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 2: Amazing. I love that. 637 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: I love that. 638 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 2: It must have been weeks and weeks and weeks to 639 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,879 Speaker 2: get that sort of stickiness and smell out. I mean, 640 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 2: it's just it's really amazing. 641 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, molasses is a is no joke. 642 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's no joke. 643 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: Like you don't want it, Like it's hard to get 644 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: that out of a shirt, is let alone out of 645 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: a city. I love this story. It's a it's a 646 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: tragic story in Boston's history. It's to me, it's such 647 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 1: a city specific story that it reminds me of the 648 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: Great Fires of Chicago or San Francisco. It's like, you know, 649 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: and it has that apocac because it's molasses. It has 650 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: this kind of apocryphal feel that it's like so wild, 651 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,479 Speaker 1: like the like Miss O'Leary's cow in Chicago that kicked 652 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: over the lantern. Supposedly, these stories sort of reach almost 653 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: like a fable status or or sort of like urban mythology, 654 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: but they're totally true. 655 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible. 656 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: I did a little bit of digging and found that 657 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: class action lawsuits have reached an all time high in 658 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: the last three years, with over one hundred and fifty 659 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: nine billion dollars in settlements. Now, class action suits obviously 660 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: have their pros and cons. While they might help a 661 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: broader group to gain lower cost of litigation and incentivize 662 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: them to pursue their rights, they've also drawn criticism for 663 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: leading to lower payouts, inflated benefits to lawyers, and loss 664 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: of individual control. But I've always thought the right to 665 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: class action suit is actually quite inspiring and a great 666 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 1: tool for consumer protection. It's it's almost like the right 667 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 1: to collective bargaining on like for for unions, Like when 668 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, large groups of people that don't have a 669 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: voice when they work together can actually have a very 670 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: powerful voice. And I've always thought the the anti union 671 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: sentiment in our country is very confusing, especially coming from 672 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: the right, because it's such a it's such a free 673 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: speech uh to me, it's it's the ultimate expression of 674 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: free spreech of free speech. It's just saying, like how 675 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: do we how can we get together and like and 676 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: uh and like be a louder voice when traditionally it's 677 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: the wealthy and the powerful that have the loudest voices. 678 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 2: Well, it's also a part, it's part of how you 679 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 2: make economies where especially with with things like class action 680 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 2: lawsuits and and labor is like it's it's how you 681 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 2: make economies work more efficiently. Like like, if you don't 682 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 2: let individuals act as groups to sort of increase their 683 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 2: power to the size that it should be, you're not, 684 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 2: it's all then the whole thing's. 685 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: Out of whack, all right, Dan Debirsky, is there anything 686 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: in your professional world that you can plug or talk 687 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,839 Speaker 1: about or or spill any beans tease us with. You're 688 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: the exciting things that you're up to. You're one of 689 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: my favorite podcasters in the world. What What's What's what's 690 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: on deck? 691 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 2: I'm I'm working on two things, both will come out 692 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 2: next year, both of which I can't disclose, but I 693 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 2: think they're both going to be good. They're different. And 694 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 2: the one, the one that's coming on next actually has 695 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 2: Italian anarchists the nineteen twenties, which I which I was 696 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,879 Speaker 2: so excited to talk about. 697 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: Right, it's connected as I said earlier, Go do a 698 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 1: deep dive on Dan Tabirski's work so that you're prepared 699 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: for how awesome these upcoming projects are going to be. 700 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: And also, yeah, you're ouvra. I like that good good word. 701 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,319 Speaker 1: And also congratulations to both of us for winning a 702 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: Peabody on this episode. I assume and see the awards there. Yeah, Dan, 703 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for coming on. It's so 704 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 1: so fun to see you and hang out. Thanks for 705 00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: being here. 706 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 2: So great to see you man anytime. 707 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: All right, cheers. SNAPFHO is a production of iHeart Podcasts 708 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: and Snapfoo Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and 709 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: Pacific Electric Picture Company. Our post production studio is Gilded Audio. 710 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, 711 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan. This episode was 712 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: produced by Alyssa Martino and Tory Smith. Our video editor 713 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,240 Speaker 1: is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. 714 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo and branding by 715 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: The Collected Works. Legal review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson 716 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, 717 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, 718 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:53,919 Speaker 1: Kerry Leeberman, Nikki Etoor, Nathan Otowski and Alex Corral. While 719 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy 720 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: of my book, Snapboo, The Definitive Guide to History's great 721 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: just screw Ups. It's available now from any book retailer. 722 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:08,720 Speaker 1: Just go to snapoo dashbook dot com. Thanks for listening, 723 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: and see you next week.