WEBVTT - Fire Drill 088: Gambler - An EXCLUSIVE Excerpt from Billy Walters' New Autobiography 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:05.320 Some folks have responded, it's his money, he can do 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:07.840 what he wants. Sure, that's totally true. It is his 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:10.879 money he can set on fire. However, where it becomes 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:15.520 more complex is if he's betting so much and losing 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.920 so much that he has to chase money, and that 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:23.200 leads to complete reshifting of the entire professional golf landscape, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.319 which might or might not be exactly what happened. Then 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:32.160 Fill's private gambling becomes a keen interest to the entire 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:32.840 golf world. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:36.760 That got dats my head. 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:41.239 Can't get him, joh And not the thing what I'm 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:48.120 thinking about. Can't get him out, John, Not the thing 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:49.839 what I'm thinking about? 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.720 Hello? Is this allon Chipnook? Back for another The Fire Drill podcast. 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:07.800 I'm in Los Angeles covering the US Women's Amateur Championship 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.880 at Bell Country Club. Matt Janella is with us. He 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.880 is in Ireland about to play in the Father's Son 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:20.520 at Waterville. But we've reconvened. We've reconnoitered because we have 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:28.959 the world exclusive first excerpt on Billy Walter's much anticipated autobiography, Gambler. Matt, 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.640 you've seen the material. What do you think? 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:40.320 I mean? You know, I've been around the golf you know, 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:43.039 businesses as long as you have right, almost kind of 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.760 came in the same time. It's been no you know, 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:51.400 big secret that Phil, you know, is a betting man. 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.000 He bets on you know, he bets on himself in 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.320 the sense that that's the way he plays the game. Uh, 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.440 there's there's a good jillion and you know rumors about 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:08.480 his his off course gambling. We've heard of him betting 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:10.360 on the Ravens to win the Super Bowl. You know, 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.840 we don't hear a lot about the losses. We certainly 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:15.919 don't know the nitty gritty. I remember at a Golf 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:21.560 Digest photo shoot when we were at the bridges in 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:26.080 Rancho Santa Fe and he rolled up in this black 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.960 suv you know, sat in the parking lot for what 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.480 seemed to be you know, upwards of a half an hour. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.600 It felt more, probably like two hours. We were just 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:39.440 all sitting there waiting for him to get out of 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.880 the car. You know, he was making his bets for 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:46.680 the day. He then proceeded to show us the bulletproof 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.200 glass that he had in his car, and we were like, 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.480 why would why would Phil Micholson need bulletproof glass in 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.440 see like what exactly is going on here? Like it 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:00.840 just it was just a really ran them, you know, 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:06.400 situation and odd quite frankly. But when you read this 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.720 book excerpt and you hear about the details of what 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.720 he was doing and how he was doing it, and 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:17.239 the numbers, not only the numbers of bets, but the 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.560 numbers associated to the financial component. 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.640 Of all this. When the number is a B and 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.560 not an M, yeah, well let's let's go to the numbers. 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.480 Let's go to the numbers. Because people haven't seen this yet. 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:35.080 It Billy Walters was Phil Nicholson's gambling partner. People think 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:37.920 he was his bookie, but in reality they had this 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:42.200 partnership and Billy, as he tells it, wanted access to 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.680 Phil's books, including some offshore ones that he said had 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.920 four hundred thousand dollars limits per game per bet, and 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.040 because Billy was too good and he would get cut 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.600 off by his own his own book makers, or they'd 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.360 given really low limits like twenty k. But Phil was 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:59.960 such a pigeon, He's like, okay, let's let's let's go 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:04.920 into business. So Billy was also a meticulous record keeper 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.600 because offshore betting, interstate gambling. You know, these are gray 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.280 areas that especially ten or more years ago. And so 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.520 he kept track of everything, so and he paid taxes, 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.920 and he had a whole fleet of lawyers to kind 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.640 of help him navigate the legality of this stuff. So 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:28.520 this is These are some of the numbers from Billy Walters. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:33.600 This is the period between twenty ten and twenty and fourteen. 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:38.719 He says, Phil bet one hundred and ten thousand dollars 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.839 to win one hundred thousand dollars a total of one thousand, 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:46.520 one hundred and fifteen times on eight hundred and fifty 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.000 eight occasions, Phil bet two hundred and twenty thousand dollars 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.880 to win two hundred thousand. When you do the math, 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.960 that comes to three hundred and eleven million dollars just 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:01.839 on those bets. According to Billy, in tw eleven, Michelson 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.200 made three one hundred and fifty four bets, an average 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:09.080 of nine per day. And he says on June twenty second, 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:12.760 twenty eleven, Phil made forty three bets on Major League 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:18.200 Baseball games, losing one hundred and forty four thousand dollars. 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.800 And in that period that Billy's talked about twenty ten 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.800 to fourteen, Micholson made over seven thousand wages on football, basketball, 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.240 and baseball. And this is what you're alluding to, Matt. 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.640 This is what Billy says. I'm reading from the book 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:36.599 now based on our relationship, when I've learned from others. 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.240 In all, Phil wagered a total of more than one 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:43.080 a billion dollars during the past three decades. That's a 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:48.320 billion with a B. Now, Billy's not privy to the 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.320 wins and losses, but he estimates that Phil has lost 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.680 in the neighborhood one hundred million dollars from from all 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.919 those bets. I mean that that's real money, because what 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:04.560 you know in the book, Billy quotes Phil as saying 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.159 that Michelson's net worth is two hundred and fifty million dollars. 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.400 It's probably grown since then. We know that we live 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.240 golf and everything else. But if you're worth two hundred 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.440 and fifty k and or two hundred fifty million and 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.680 you're losing one hundred million, that is a massive percentage 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:23.080 of Even if you're worth half a billion, you're losing 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:28.159 twenty percent of that just gone. These are pretty staggering 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.880 numbers and it's like you said, Matt, I mean, it 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:35.240 was part of Phil's brand has always been he's a gambler. 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:37.440 Everyone kind of knew it, and it was whispered about, 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.160 But this is the first time we have the real receipts. 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:45.159 In my biography, I had access to a source who 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:52.000 saw some IRS documents and they put Phil's gambling losses 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.279 at forty million dollars in that period twenty ten to fourteen. 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:59.200 But that was just a snapshot. You know, Billy has 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.520 more information, and clearly because he was the guy who 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.400 was placing the bets and talking it over on a 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:10.720 daily basis, and the volume is pretty incredible. When when 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:12.640 you hear those numbers, what is your reaction? 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.400 It's staggering, I mean, And also, you know, it's kind 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.080 of it's a little bit like Tiger. When we heard 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:26.040 and started seeing the numbers of women that Tiger had 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.640 been with or all the different sort of relationships he 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.320 was managing, it was like, how could he manage all 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.760 of that and still have that level of success on 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.400 the golf course. To me, it's a very similar reaction. 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:46.040 Certainly a different situation, but the wherewithal the game as 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.720 we know it is so complex and complicated and hard 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:54.520 to you know, hard to master. You have to be 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.880 right in your mind, in your spirit, in your soul 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:02.160 and your convictions of of what you're capable of in 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.720 order to execute on a day to day, week to 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:10.400 week tour to tour like good. I mean, so that 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.320 was kind of like my thought is like, oh my god, 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.520 both of these guys have achieved this type of success 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:20.880 while also juggling these what would be perceived to be 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:25.480 shit storms off the course. It's, you know, in some 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:31.640 ways it's actually really impressive. I mean, that's that many bets, 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:36.280 tracking all that stuff. I mean, that's that's a lot. 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:41.679 Well. I mean, yeah, it's remarkable that as you're saying 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.560 that the two greatest golfers in the last you know, 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:48.400 three decades had these these addiction issues. And you know, 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.880 Phil has used the word addiction talking about his gambling. 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.960 Tiger's been to treatment at least twice that we know 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.440 of for addictions. And it always was that belief that 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.439 to play the highest level of off you had to 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:04.360 have a clear mind. But maybe it's the opposite. Maybe 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:09.079 they needed that constant rush and that that that that 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.720 that energy and the juice and then when they got 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.559 between the ropes, that's when everything kind of quieted down, 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.520 and that was their respite from all the chaos. And 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.920 maybe that's why they could lock in during those four hours. 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.679 I don't know it. It does put to lie what 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.040 you know, golfers have always said, you know, when I'm 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.760 going through divorce, when I'm whatever, I couldn't. I couldn't. 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.240 I couldn't think about golf. I couldn't play golf. My 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.080 father died. It affected my golf for two years. Like 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.800 these guys just sailed through the chaos. It's remarkable. 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.240 Speaking of chaos, twenty twelve, Ryder Cup. In this book excerpt, 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.600 Billy says Phil calls him to try to put a 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:52.880 bet on Team USA. Madna, Yeah, you know this. This 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.240 was the Rider Cup, you know. Billy essentially says I'm 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.120 not doing this. I'm not doing this now and says 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:00.920 I don't know if he got the bet in or 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.320 if he went somewhere else, but he came to me 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.199 with the bet and I was like, you're crossing lines 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.079 here that that I'm not comfortable being a part of. 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:10.319 Pete Rose lines. 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:13.680 Yeah, I'm going to read that passage because it's really 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.599 interesting Phil calls him up from a dina, and of 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.040 course this is Billy's words. He was so confident that 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:21.720 he asked me to place a four hundred thousand dollars 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.600 wager for him on the US team to win. I 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.040 could not believe what I was hearing. Have you lost 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.680 your fucking mind? I told him, don't you remember what 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:34.839 happened to Pete Rose? I mean, it's pretty funny. And again, 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.760 that was always the defense of Pete Rose, you know, 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.000 advocates was that, well, when you're when you're betting on 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.360 your own team, that's not really doing anything wrong because 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.360 you're trying to win the game no matter what. But 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:52.080 the counter argument is that when when you have that 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.800 money and that stress, you might do things in the 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.560 short term, that's that's not going to help the team 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:00.600 over a long season. You're gonna burn up your bullpen 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.640 because you got fifty thousand dollars on this game. You 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:04.679 don't care, you're bringing all your you're bringing your closer 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:06.680 in the third inning. If you have to write like 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.880 it can affect your strategy. Now with Phil, he's used 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.360 to you know, four thousand dollars is a third place 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.840 check on the tour back then whatever he's used to 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:20.600 playing for money, But it just speaks to a desperation, 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:23.960 like the Ryder Cup has enough pressure, you need the 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:28.160 extra juice of a bet. It's crazy. I mean, there's 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:31.240 enough action between the ropes to the Ryder Cup, you 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:35.480 need another four hundred k. Like it's it's insane. And 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.079 as Billy says, we don't know if Phil plays the bet, 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:43.040 but it speaks to his frame of mind. And we 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:47.440 know Phil had other bookies and other avenues for placing 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.480 bets because some of the stuff has come out in public. 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.200 Like also going back to your bulletproof glass, Like you know, 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.480 Phil is mixed up with Dandy Dawn. This this mob 0:11:55.640 --> 0:12:00.640 mobbed up dude in Detroit and that that became a 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:04.199 whole public mess. There was this this you know, this 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.880 guy Greg Silverian san Diego went to prison for you know, 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.320 fraud related to this wire transfer that was sent to 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.080 a high profile golfer the initials PM, That's what it 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.839 said in the court documents. Like you know, there was 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:20.920 this guy Brian Zerif who Phil was one of his 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.880 betting partners, and he was allegedly you know, he wound 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.920 up getting in trouble with the Feds allegedly it was 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:32.200 linked to the Russian mafia. Like there's there was some 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:36.880 shady characters very close to Phil ergo the bulletproof glass 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.280 and so you know really didn't didn't take the bet, 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:42.160 but we don't know who was the next guy Phil 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.320 called and how big the number got. And if you 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.240 remember the Miracle Medina, this is the Ryder Cup we're 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.400 talking about. The whole thing flipped in singles when Justin 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.680 Rose came back and beat Phil on the last last hole. 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.640 You know Rose made that bomb on seventeen and then 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.640 he takes the match. That was the key moment in 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.560 this historic comeback for Europe. Now Phil was trying to win, Yes, 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:08.640 of course he was, and if he was betting on himself, 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:10.520 he was trying to win extra hard. But that's the 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.640 whole point, Like there's already enough pressure. If Phil has 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.040 some huge bet out there with some shady character, who 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.560 for whom you need to have bulletproof glass, Like that's 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.480 just one more like log on the fire. It's insane 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:25.920 that he would put himself in that position. 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.480 Well, correct me if I'm wrong, But I think you 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.080 go back to Saturday. I think you go back to 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.760 Saturday afternoon and if you recall, I believe it was 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.719 Phil and Keegan Bradley were basically unbeatable and closed out 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.040 their Saturday morning match and all shot. It's like both 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.280 of them only hit a total of like twenty two shots, 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:50.280 some ridiculously low number. They were playing so well. And 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.600 he's the one who went to Love and said we're 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.920 sitting out, We're sitting out for Saturday afternoon and Keigan 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.560 Bradley was like, we're sitting out. Well, you know, I 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.559 thought I thought it flipped that Saturday afternoon when when 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.200 Europe caught a little momentum to try to like, you know, 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.480 get get some afternoon wins leading into the singles the 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:08.960 next day. 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.480 Yeah, I mean that that's a great point. Like what 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.800 was was Phil, It was Phil resting up for his 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:17.959 singles match because he had a. 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:22.840 Huge Remember everybody by surprise, like why are they not playing? 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.640 They're they're unbeatable. Keep them going right, Yeah, they went 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.240 three and oh in the first three frames Michelson and 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.600 Bradley and they were housing dudes. I mean, they'd beat 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.080 Luke Donald and Sergio Garcia probably one of the strongest 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.240 European teams ever. Four and three. Then they beat and 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:46.080 they beat Rory and grab McDowell in afternoon four ball. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.600 Then you go to Saturday morning and they take on 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.880 Lee Westwood and and Luke Donald, a couple of absolute warriors. 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.440 They beat him seven and six. Like you're saying, and 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.720 that and that that was that was a head scratcher. 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.320 Why are are they arresting now? There's there's a million 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.320 things going on here. Phil has story out the cars, right, 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:09.840 he's old. We're just speculating, but it does introduce this 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:15.600 possibility like there was something going on, and it forces 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.080 you to have some revisionist history when you know that 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.080 that Phill's out there on the eve of the Ryder 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.040 Cup trying to place bets. Alan. 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:27.520 You kind of started this asking a little bit about 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:32.800 my reaction. You have spent time with Billy, you you 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.480 you you went down and met with them as you're 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:39.160 reporting out your Phil book. You know you've dealt with 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.680 him and his lawyers throughout this whole process, and then 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.760 you get the excerpt, You get the excerpt on behalf 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:48.240 of fire Pit Collective and giving us this exclusive. What 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.680 was your reaction when you actually got to read this chapter? 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.760 Yeah, and I actually read the whole book, and it's 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.320 It was interesting because I did sit with Billy when 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:03.280 I was reporting the Phil books, and I think now 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.200 now it can be told because it's all out in 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.120 the public domain. You know. I flew to Vegas and 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.360 our whole conversation was off the record for you know, 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.680 two hours we talked and he wanted me to know 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:16.560 who Phil was, and he wanted me to know a 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.640 lot of things. But he didn't want it in my 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.440 book because he knew he was going to write his 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.160 own and he didn't. He didn't want to. He didn't 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.640 want to give away the goods. And he actually he 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:31.280 told me that writer cup story. And for two years 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.440 I've had to sit on it. I mean I've never 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.480 I've never breathed it out loud. It's never been in print. 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.680 And even as you know, Phil was was talking, uh, 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.880 you know, talking trash about me in various forums, saying that. 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.360 I was saying that you don't like it's actually you 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.720 don't know the difference between on the record and off 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.400 the record, like as it this is proof you know, 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.360 the difference between what is and what isn't on and 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:56.040 off the record. 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.160 It was insane, like because that would have. You know, 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:03.000 it's a it's a mom to revelation, and it's probably 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.040 going to be the biggest headline out of all this. 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.720 Everyone already knew that feel better a lot of money. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.520 The actual the receipts are interesting and they're they're eye popping. 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.160 But I think the Ryder Cup bit is the biggest 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:18.200 revelation in in Billy's book and obviously in our excerpt. 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.600 And you know, I've known it for years and I 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.240 couldn't say it, and so you know, when Phil said 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:24.760 I didn't treat it fairly, it was like such an 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.480 eye roll. Because I had this, it would have it 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.040 would have sent my book to the moon even more. 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.880 But I had an agreement with Billy. I always honor 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:37.320 those agreements. So yeah, it was it was interesting. It 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.520 was cathartic to see it in print. Honestly, at least 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.439 now it's out. This is what happened. This is just 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:46.000 the truth. You know, this is the reality. You know, 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.879 my reaction and we should say. You know, there's a 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:53.160 second chapter that that where Billy goes into the insider 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:57.000 trading case and we're sort of embargoed from talking about 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:58.919 that from the publisher, Like our agreement was. We just 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.480 would only talk about what in the excerpt, and that's fair. 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.560 But of course I've read that chapter and it's pretty withering, 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:11.920 you know. I will say that in our excerpt, Billy 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.800 talks about that, and he kind of teases it a 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:19.320 little bit, and you know, as he writes, and as 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.159 Billy writes in this chapter that we've excerpted, you know, 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.320 about Phil, I never told him I had inside information 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.919 about stocks and he knows it. All Phil had to 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.920 do was publicly say it. He refused. The outcome cost 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.280 me my freedom, tens of millions of dollars and a 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.639 heartbreak I still struggle with daily. While I was in prison, 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.919 my daughter committed suicide. I still believe I could have 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:46.000 saved her if I'd been on the outside. So, you know, 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:51.639 Billy goes into great detail about the insider trading and 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:56.600 Phil's role, and Phil was never charged with a crime. 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:58.879 He did have to return about a million dollars in 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.560 ill gotten gains, which is a favorite term of mine. 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:04.439 So it's interesting to read Billy's take on all that, 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:06.960 and that'll that'll come out in other places. We won't 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:12.600 talk about it here, but I think that on the 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:19.639 whole Phil will survive this excerpt, this book and these revelations. 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.560 It was interesting when he started it self identifying as 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:26.800 a gambling addict, which was only happened in the wake 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.720 of the publication of my book. And you know, that 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.679 takes courage, that takes bravery to come out in public 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.040 for anybody. We all have people in our lives who 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.280 struggle with some kind of addiction and that's the hardest 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:39.879 part is for them to admit it. And for a 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.000 public figure to say it publicly, that's a big deal. 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:47.280 So I salute Phil's courage there. And the cynic would 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.960 say that he knew what was in what was coming 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:53.840 in Billy's book, and that was sort of rebranding. You know, 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:58.120 we we all, I think societally we have more empathy 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.800 for people who struggle with addiction versus those who were 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.720 just reckless or foolish. Right, And so he'll say, hey, 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.360 I was a gambling addict. I got it in over 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:09.480 my head on the bets. That was a long time ago. 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.240 I think he'll survive that part. The Ryder Cup bit, 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.760 I mean again, Pete Rose was banned for life from baseball. 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.480 He's not in the Hall of Fame as the all 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:24.560 time hits leader because of gambling on his own team, 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.200 which is what you know, Billy alleged Phil wanted to do. Now, 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.399 I'm sure, knowing Phil and knowing how it's gonna play out, 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.040 feels like gonna stay. Oh, I was just joking. I 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.800 you know, that was just that was just locker room talk. 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.240 I would never would bet on the Ryder cup. I 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.600 never placed a bet. It never happened. And in the 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.480 absence of some other person like Billy Walter's coming forward 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:49.200 and saying, yeah, I cash that bet for Phil, he'll 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:55.199 probably survive that too. You know, the the Insider Trading chapter, 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.480 it's very unflattering towards Phil, as people can probably guess 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:04.320 from that little bit that I just read. But again, 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.040 Phil's never charged with the crime and there's no new 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:11.080 information in what Billy says it would probably change that, 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:13.680 So I think he'll survive that chapter too. I mean, 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.200 it's just it's the through line in the Phil Mickelson 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.160 story is he just kind of wiggles out of these things, 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:24.919 and he's there have been so many blow ups and 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:29.280 controversies in his public life and he's he's kind of 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.320 skated on all of them, even you know, the revelations 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:34.520 that came out of my book, calling you know, the 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:40.200 public Investment Fund guys scary motherfuckers and all that uproar 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.679 getting suspended by the tour. In some ways, Phil's been vindicated, 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.359 like the PGA tour is now doing business potentially if 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.000 they can consummate the framework agreement with those very same 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.120 scary motherfuckers. And a lot of the changes that Phil 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.080 was calling for and advocating for have come to fruition. 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.720 So even that was a monumental controversy his life, He's 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.480 kind of survived that. He's just the ultimate survivor. So 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.919 I think that I think that he's going to be okay. 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:09.399 But it's it just adds more contexts, more nuanced And 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:14.119 I think the biggest takeaway is that that Bill Billy 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:16.520 Walters and film making some of her best friends and 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:20.520 they and Billy was Phil's mentor, and in the end 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:25.439 Phil completely torched that relationship and did a lot of 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:27.880 weird things and was not there for his friend when 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:30.920 his friend was in a dire circumstance. And I think 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.600 that's probably the most damaging thing. It's not the money. 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:35.880 We knew he bet a lot. He's going to skate 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:38.760 on the Ryder Cup thing with the insider trading bits 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:43.399 already mostly public, but that you know too. You have 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:47.560 a friend who's drowning. He's in the he's in the 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:52.200 white water, and you're potentially holding, you know, a rope 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:54.400 you can throw to him, and Phil never threw the rope. 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:58.080 And Billy's telling that that's that's rough, man. I mean 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.080 that that really hits you on a human level. And 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:05.200 I think that's probably gonna on some level kurdle feelings 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:07.080 towards Phil more than anything else in this book. 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.840 The last line in the book excerpt that Billy writes is, 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:15.919 as my book makes clear, Phil is not always the 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:21.359 person he seems to be. And I had someone recently, 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.080 in sort of casual conversation out on the golf course, 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:30.320 ask me, why was Alan writing a book on Phil? 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:33.720 You know, you know the timing of what he said, 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:35.960 You trying to get a hold of him him not 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:38.879