Speaker 1: Also media, Welcome to it could happen here a podcast
Speaker 1: where my old bookstore from college is unionized, and I'm
Speaker 1: very excited about it. I'm your host, Mio Wong, and
Speaker 1: with me to talk about this this tremendous event are
Speaker 1: Caleb Theo and Finn from the Seminary co Op Booksellers Union. Yeah,
Speaker 1: welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 3: This is so excited.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to you both because I think somehow
Speaker 1: in the mold that I got almost three years i've
Speaker 1: been doing this show now, Jesus Christ, that is terrifying. Somehow,
Speaker 1: I think this is the first bookstore union we've talked to,
Speaker 1: which is remarkable. I don't I don't know how it's
Speaker 1: taken this long, but I'm so excited that y'all get that.
Speaker 1: Y'all the first.
Speaker 5: I mean, as far as we know, we're the first
Speaker 5: in the city of Chicago.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, we're.
Speaker 6: The only in the city. There are like past bookstores
Speaker 6: that have since closed which we're unionized. But yeah, as
Speaker 6: best we know, we're now we're currently the only union
Speaker 6: bookstore in the city of Chicago. Proper.
Speaker 1: God, maybe there's one up in Evanston or something, but
Speaker 1: seems unlikely. This is this is I don't know. I've
Speaker 1: been I've been. I've been drilling. I've been drilling the
Speaker 1: Evanston knowledge into my listeners' heads. Now, so now all
Speaker 1: of you people in Rhode Island or whatever know about
Speaker 1: my hatred of Evanston.
Speaker 6: An extremely fair grudge.
Speaker 1: Okay, so speaking of grudges, all right, sobody, co op
Speaker 1: is it's it's it's an interesting bookstore in the sense
Speaker 1: that like it's it's it is on the campus of
Speaker 1: the University of Chicago, like it's just it's just sort
Speaker 1: of there. And there's been a lot of things happening
Speaker 1: on that campus in the past month or so. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess what I wanted to I guess the place
Speaker 1: I wanted to start was sort of Okay, so you
Speaker 1: should call it is a campus that has a lot
Speaker 1: of union organizing happening on it in a bunch of
Speaker 1: across a bunch of different kind of they're mostly university unions,
Speaker 1: but a lot different all of different kinds of workers
Speaker 1: in the university have unions. How did that sort of
Speaker 1: impact the way this campaign started?
Speaker 3: That's a really good question. I I feel like, there's
Speaker 3: a few things I want to talk about. I think
Speaker 3: there's the the fact that a lot of us booksellers
Speaker 3: who come to the sem co op were coming from
Speaker 3: many of us came from New Chicago or had been
Speaker 3: there at some point and had been around that kind
Speaker 3: of organizing. So I think that that definitely has an impact.
Speaker 3: I also think that many of us know people because
Speaker 3: so many of us are in the community. We all
Speaker 3: know a lot of people who are organizers, a lot
Speaker 3: of people in the grad student union, and howing them
Speaker 3: to talk to and kind of like bounce ideas off
Speaker 3: of and commiserate all of that has been really great.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And like I think it's been very emboldening to
Speaker 6: know that we have that support, you know that because
Speaker 6: we have friends and comrades and roommates in GSU, in
Speaker 6: faculty unions, you know, the kind of the whole time,
Speaker 6: we've known that, Like, if we ever need to draw
Speaker 6: on that external support for any kind of you know,
Speaker 6: public campaign that we have like a connection to like
Speaker 6: a broader labor of movement in the area, that will
Speaker 6: be there for us.
Speaker 1: This is something I guess you've already touched on a bit,
Speaker 1: but I think This leads into another question that I had,
Speaker 1: which was, Yeah, I wanted to talk about the sort
Speaker 1: of the influence of campus and how how how the
Speaker 1: dynamics of that kind of change, what these what these
Speaker 1: campaigns look like.
Speaker 5: It's really interesting because our relationship to campus is a
Speaker 5: little bit unclear to us in terms of the way
Speaker 5: that the bookstore functions in relation to its university partners,
Speaker 5: because we work with them very closely. There are a landlord,
Speaker 5: among many other things, but we are not directly affiliated
Speaker 5: with them, and we carry course books, but that's by
Speaker 5: professor request and we can't always do it, and so
Speaker 5: it's a really close, really opaque relationship.
Speaker 3: I think the university really likes to have a bookstore
Speaker 3: that isn't like university affiliated on paper, but still very
Speaker 3: much is a part of the culture of the university,
Speaker 3: and so we see a lot of that kind of
Speaker 3: inform things like our stock and the events that the
Speaker 3: UH professors that we work with, and of course like
Speaker 3: the students who come in and use the space and
Speaker 3: are physically in the space every day doing work buying
Speaker 3: their books.
Speaker 1: It's it's always weird kind of doing organizing in these
Speaker 1: spaces because like I don't know you you're you're dealing
Speaker 1: with this mixture. Well you Chicago especially is like this
Speaker 1: where there's it's this really kind of weird and volatile
Speaker 1: mixture of like a bunch of on the one hand,
Speaker 1: like a bunch of very brave, very committed like people
Speaker 1: who are doing organizing, a bunch of people who are
Speaker 1: just completely checked out, and then a bunch of people
Speaker 1: who are going to go lead cups in South America.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, it's it's it's a that was
Speaker 1: my experience back doing Actually, God, I was, I was
Speaker 1: on the GS you pick it line, like, how God
Speaker 1: that was? That was half a decade ago. Jesus Christ. Sorry,
Speaker 1: this is this is turning into the Mia thinks about
Speaker 1: our time that you which it shouldn't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, That's something that is notable too, is that, like
Speaker 5: we have a lot of community support when it comes
Speaker 5: to people who are theoretically in favor of unionizing and
Speaker 5: theoretically in favor of labor power, and that extends all
Speaker 5: the way through our management team, like they are very,
Speaker 5: very in favor of the concept of labor rights. And
Speaker 5: so it's really interesting trying to parse that dynamics sometimes
Speaker 5: of like, Okay, these are people who are supposedly our
Speaker 5: biggest supporters, but at the same time their actions do
Speaker 5: not very well line up with those ideals.
Speaker 3: I think having a section at our store that is
Speaker 3: devoted to critical theory and Marxism while not paying us
Speaker 3: a living wage is a real funny situation.
Speaker 2: The irony stings real hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's this real read the theory, act on it,
Speaker 1: but read the theory.
Speaker 6: It's been real fun. Like we during like your course
Speaker 6: book rush seasons, we have like sem co op trading
Speaker 6: cards with pictures of like different authors. It's always really
Speaker 6: fun handing out the ones that are like Carl Marx
Speaker 6: sem co ops number one best selling author.
Speaker 5: And no, it's definitely not because every freshman at University
Speaker 5: of Chicago has to buy him from us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's another that's like kind of unrelated, really
Speaker 1: funny thing. But yeah, like all of the Chicago econ
Speaker 1: dipshits at least nominally red marks. Did they open it
Speaker 1: low odds? But yeah, I don't know that that seems
Speaker 1: like a psychologically destabilizing contradiction that you're dealing with them
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 6: That same kind of like contradiction between like spirit and practice.
Speaker 6: Just like it's also right there in our name where
Speaker 6: we're the Seminary co Op bookstore, and like two thirds
Speaker 6: of that is not true. We haven't been affiliated with
Speaker 6: the seminary in decades. We were for a time a
Speaker 6: member co op like RII, but we've never been a
Speaker 6: worker's co op. We haven't even been a member co
Speaker 6: op since twenty fourteen. We are a bookstore, so there's
Speaker 6: like that.
Speaker 1: But the old one in three eight bad being simply
Speaker 1: does not apply here. That is in fact very bad well.
Speaker 3: And I think that that is like a very big
Speaker 3: part of how the larger community sees our stores as well,
Speaker 3: and the like mismatch there because yeah, of course we're
Speaker 3: like on the Chicago campus. We are very much connected
Speaker 3: to the student body and the faculty there, but we're
Speaker 3: also like in the middle of like our neighborhood where
Speaker 3: there are plenty of other people who are not affiliated
Speaker 3: with the college who are like coming in buying their books.
Speaker 3: There's the fact that like our our second location down
Speaker 3: the street, fifty seventh Street Books, which has like our
Speaker 3: kids sects and like a bunch of other less academic
Speaker 3: stuff like that's very heavily trafficked as well, and the
Speaker 3: communities understanding of us as a like worker owned not
Speaker 3: not for profit, which is a very confusing term because
Speaker 3: it's not a nonprofit, it's a not for profit. That
Speaker 3: that disconnect between what the community needs and wants in
Speaker 3: its bookstores and what the management has decided our bookstores
Speaker 3: mean to the community is it's felt. That's like a
Speaker 3: very felt mismatch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm assuming that that that's sort of the
Speaker 1: kinds of things that I mean, obviously the standard not
Speaker 1: getting paid off, et cetera, et cetera, are those those
Speaker 1: are sort of things that led into how the organizing started.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's a lot the way that like
Speaker 5: the mismatch is so parent to us, and it really
Speaker 5: brought us together, Like we have such a unique sense
Speaker 5: of solidarity as a working cohort. I feel like there's
Speaker 5: a lot of commiseration because we walk a very weird
Speaker 5: line throughout our community, and so I think it's a
Speaker 5: little bit just trying to assess what's going on in
Speaker 5: our stores and like how does that compare to what
Speaker 5: management tells us on a regular basis, and shouldn't we
Speaker 5: be doing something about that?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think that. I know that our first like big
Speaker 3: pre union meeting where we all got together in the
Speaker 3: basement of one of our houses and commiserated, was like
Speaker 3: after a pretty rough like all store meeting that we
Speaker 3: had had in which we had continued to get really
Speaker 3: no response regarding questions about a living wage or how
Speaker 3: we choose stock for our store, how communication between management
Speaker 3: and hourly booksellers was just so lacking, and we just
Speaker 3: got the same kind of messaging that was being given
Speaker 3: to customers, which is we're working on it. You're all
Speaker 3: of these things that you're saying are so valid, and
Speaker 3: we'll address them at a later date.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we were getting this great response of like, you know,
Speaker 6: we want to get you to not just a living wage,
Speaker 6: but a professional wage, and we have a five year plan,
Speaker 6: but we were halfway through that five year plan. The
Speaker 6: five year plan started right before the pandemic and had
Speaker 6: not been adjusted since, and there was no information on
Speaker 6: how we were going to in the last half of
Speaker 6: this five year plan, you know, suddenly increase wages to
Speaker 6: whatever a professional wage is, let alone a living wage.
Speaker 6: So that was just a very straighting, like completely empty answer.
Speaker 3: I think we were all very we were all hurt
Speaker 3: and we got like the very first message in our
Speaker 3: group chat, which was just like so we're we're gonna
Speaker 3: we're gonna unionize, right, incredible, And that was like the
Speaker 3: start of it. And that was like last I want
Speaker 3: to say that was January of twenty twenty three was
Speaker 3: when that started.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they'reabouts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's I guess it's a pretty vast
Speaker 1: campaign by the looks of it. It's yeah, about it
Speaker 1: about it a bit over a year. Yeah, yeah, congratulations
Speaker 1: to you all, by the way, thank you.
Speaker 3: Thanks.
Speaker 5: It's really thanks to the team that started in January though,
Speaker 5: because they have been really really proactive about reaching out
Speaker 5: to people when there are new booksellers. Because I have
Speaker 5: kind of a weird tenure at the store. I've worked
Speaker 5: there two separate times, but I wasn't part of the
Speaker 5: January meeting. But when I rejoined the co op in August,
Speaker 5: I think within the first week that I was there,
Speaker 5: one of my kokers like came up to me while
Speaker 5: I was at the register and like in the standard
Speaker 5: getting to know you kind of speech, was.
Speaker 2: Like, and how do you feel about labor organizing? And
Speaker 2: I was like very in favor. Why do you ask.
Speaker 1: Yeah that by the way, dear listenier. If you're at
Speaker 1: a union, that is that is what is known as
Speaker 1: good practice. It is in fact a thing that you
Speaker 1: need to do whenever someone new joins your workplace and
Speaker 1: you have a union, bring them in. And if you
Speaker 1: don't do this, your unions will stagnate die. And there
Speaker 1: are there there are like there are actually there are
Speaker 1: unions out there who will get mad at you for
Speaker 1: doing this because it takes resources or whatever, and don't
Speaker 1: listen to them. Please stop. Simply do not do this.
Speaker 5: This is the only defense against turnover, which is huge.
Speaker 2: Stories that most need to unionize.
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, we have really crazy turnover. Like I think
Speaker 3: that of the original people who started talking, I mean
Speaker 3: and this was like there was a previous unionization effort
Speaker 3: too before our time that we know very little about.
Speaker 3: But of the original like January folks, very few of
Speaker 3: us are left just because of the turnover rate, which
Speaker 3: is immense, and we get like groups of like three
Speaker 3: to four people hired at once every six months or so,
Speaker 3: and it's like, Okay, how quickly can we scope folks out?
Speaker 3: How quickly can we like do like a one on
Speaker 3: one and talk to them about how they feel about
Speaker 3: labor organizing. How can we get a sense of like
Speaker 3: what their main concerns are with the job and what
Speaker 3: they want from unionizing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Well, and the turnover is also one of the things
Speaker 6: that sparked this because we had a way of folks
Speaker 6: who were fired asked to leave or quit on their
Speaker 6: own terms. And we had another coworker who knew that
Speaker 6: she was kind of reaching the end of when she
Speaker 6: could you know, stay at the bookstore and was just
Speaker 6: very committed to like getting some momentum going in her
Speaker 6: last handful of months here and created, like you oside
Speaker 6: the group chat and was just very quit, like all right, everyone,
Speaker 6: we're in the group chat, like this message if you
Speaker 6: agree with the following statement. And then it was like,
Speaker 6: you know, the statements about like how much you care
Speaker 6: about the job, and then statements about like how much
Speaker 6: you agree that like a union would improve things, and
Speaker 6: just about everybody agreed a union would be a huge improvement.
Speaker 6: And that was I mean, that was also a really
Speaker 6: incredible resource because like before someone just created the group chat,
Speaker 6: we're in this really awkward phase of like three or
Speaker 6: four different groups of people trying to get a ball
Speaker 6: rolling and very like cautiously approaching folks. I had approached
Speaker 6: one or two people and been like that same exact question,
Speaker 6: like how do you feel about unions? And then there
Speaker 6: was someone else who was going around asking the exact
Speaker 6: same question. And you know, I was also at Redge
Speaker 6: one day when she came up and asked asked me that,
Speaker 6: and I was like, Jesus, do I not have enough
Speaker 6: patches on my jacket? This is a question I need
Speaker 6: to fix something.
Speaker 3: It was a lot of like ships passing until the
Speaker 3: group chat got created, and then it was really quick
Speaker 3: we had We started having like meetings. I want to
Speaker 3: say we had one like every three weeks to a month.
Speaker 3: In that first six months, we got together a letter
Speaker 3: of demands that we all read and signed. It was
Speaker 3: I think at the time of the how many were
Speaker 3: working there. It was like all but one maybe wow
Speaker 3: person signed it and we all went to deliver it
Speaker 3: and read it to management and got a bunch of
Speaker 3: stuff right away. This was like well before yeah, well
Speaker 3: before we had like signed with an or decided who
Speaker 3: we wanted to unize with, and we still just threw
Speaker 3: that direct action got so much done.
Speaker 5: And I think that's part of the success that we've
Speaker 5: had so far too, is we do just have kind
Speaker 5: of a large number in our cohort of impatient people,
Speaker 5: which means that like, once we figure out what we want,
Speaker 5: we're just like, Okay, what's the fastest way we can
Speaker 5: ask for this and get it recognized.
Speaker 6: That first march that we did, that first letter was
Speaker 6: also just I mean, it really like fueled all of
Speaker 6: the rest of this, I think because the stuff that
Speaker 6: one was so I think so immediately felt for everyone
Speaker 6: working there.
Speaker 1: There wasn't things, Uh what what kinds of things did
Speaker 1: you win in that one?
Speaker 6: We one expanded health insurance. Previously very few people qualified
Speaker 6: for health insurance. We got that pretty tremendously broadened. I mean,
Speaker 6: that's I think how THEO and I ended up getting
Speaker 6: health insurance. We got things like, you know, improved maternity leave,
Speaker 6: improved bereavement leave. The definition of who you could take
Speaker 6: berievement leave for was broadened. It was like previously a
Speaker 6: grid of like nine types of relation, and then it
Speaker 6: got just fully expanded to like include chosen family and
Speaker 6: just whoever you know, you felt the need to claim
Speaker 6: berievement leave for. As well as just how many days,
Speaker 6: which was tremendous. I mean, it was like a week
Speaker 6: after the change, you know, got actually implemented into our
Speaker 6: our leave system, that I found out a relative was dying,
Speaker 6: And because we had gotten that expansion, I didn't have
Speaker 6: to choose between driving my grandmother to be by her bedside,
Speaker 6: be by this other relative's bedside, or going to the funeral.
Speaker 6: I was able to take time off for both of those, which,
Speaker 6: you know, meant everything to me, meant everythingthing to my grandma.
Speaker 6: And so, you know, when we talk when we're looking
Speaker 6: at issues, when we're organizing, and we talk about things
Speaker 6: that are widely felt, that are deeply felt, that are actionable,
Speaker 6: and like those kinds of changes are very deeply felt.
Speaker 6: And so there wasn't you know, there really hasn't been
Speaker 6: a point since then when anyone could remotely make the
Speaker 6: argument that organizing doesn't create positive, impactful change.
Speaker 5: Yeah. The handbook that I was onboarded with second time
Speaker 5: that I came to the stores was significantly different than
Speaker 5: the handbook that I was on boarded with the first time,
Speaker 5: And it was because this list of demands had gone
Speaker 5: out in the interim, because the policies about like just
Speaker 5: our character as a store and the way that we
Speaker 5: want to interact with our community were completely different, and
Speaker 5: it was very much that like booksellers who interact with
Speaker 5: the community on a daily basis, had had a say
Speaker 5: in the meantime.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, okay, So unfortunately we have to go to
Speaker 1: an ad break. But we returned, well, I don't know,
Speaker 1: go back to what we were doing before, question work.
Speaker 1: I don't know, not not. My fight is to ad pivot.
Speaker 1: But you know, look, if they if they, if they've
Speaker 1: paid me more, they'd get more good AD pivots, but
Speaker 1: they don't fear getting the media.
Speaker 6: Once you gotta work your wage.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we're back. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you know, the organizing students have come together pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: I guess, do you want to talk about how you
Speaker 1: ended up being an AWW shop?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to talk on that a
Speaker 6: little bit. You know, when we got to the point
Speaker 6: where were deciding who we wanted to affiliate with, I
Speaker 6: sent out feelers to just a bunch of different unions.
Speaker 6: Two got back to me. A larger trade union that
Speaker 6: I'm totally spacing on the name of, or commercial union,
Speaker 6: the term for like the really big one, the really
Speaker 6: big types of unions, and the IWW, and I had
Speaker 6: meetings or phone calls with representatives from both of them.
Speaker 6: The you and I put together kind of a graphic
Speaker 6: sort of comparing like the pros and cons of two
Speaker 6: very different options, right, like a big international union or
Speaker 6: I mean IWW obviously international, it's right in there in
Speaker 6: the name, but obviously a smaller, much more autonomous union.
Speaker 6: And I wanted to go IWW. I did my absolute
Speaker 6: best to not let that bias inform the pros and
Speaker 6: cons lists and whatnot, and we, you know, we sat
Speaker 6: around in this room here and just chatted it out,
Speaker 6: talked about our preferences, what mattered to all of us,
Speaker 6: and you know, what we decided was that, amongst other things,
Speaker 6: one of like the really big sort of organizing principles
Speaker 6: of this has been increasing our own agency and autonomy
Speaker 6: in the workplace, and the IWW's model just felt like
Speaker 6: it would give us the most control over our own campaign.
Speaker 6: And so that's that's how we ended up voting to
Speaker 6: I'm an IWW, you know, lead then campaign and now
Speaker 6: finally shop branch.
Speaker 3: I think that the IWW really fit how our store
Speaker 3: and our organizing had worked thus far too. It felt
Speaker 3: like it matched the character of our organizing. It's definitely
Speaker 3: much scrappier it, you know. The IWW having a history
Speaker 3: in Chicago definitely was a factor in my personal desire
Speaker 3: to be affiliated with them. I thought it was really
Speaker 3: cool to be joining that like long tradition of IWW
Speaker 3: shops in Chicago. I think that direct the emphasis on
Speaker 3: direct employee action versus like contract bargaining fit very well
Speaker 3: for us as well. I think, especially considering things like
Speaker 3: the turnover and how we wanted to make sure that
Speaker 3: you know, if we argue to contract, if we bargained
Speaker 3: for a contract now, that it would be difficult to know,
Speaker 3: you know, even a year or two down the line,
Speaker 3: if those points and those things that we've bargained for
Speaker 3: would be what folks would want then. And so getting
Speaker 3: to use more direct action and response to make gains
Speaker 3: in the workplace has been I think really helpful strategy
Speaker 3: and one that the IWW facilitates really well with how
Speaker 3: it trains organizing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense, and I
Speaker 1: guess you know, the question from there is how did
Speaker 1: management sort of react and what's been the kind of
Speaker 1: what's what's what's what's been the kind of relationship vibe
Speaker 1: since then.
Speaker 5: I mean management voluntarily recognized us immediately, but they also
Speaker 5: had very clear notice ahead of time that we had
Speaker 5: been organizing, Like we had been presenting them with demands
Speaker 5: on a regular basis. We had been emailing them from
Speaker 5: an anonymous account requesting that they closed the stores when
Speaker 5: the cold was too intense for most of us to
Speaker 5: safely get to work, Like they would be very very
Speaker 5: deeply buried under the rocks if they didn't know that
Speaker 5: we were like talking to each other. So I think
Speaker 5: that they had a plan, and they also know the
Speaker 5: character of our community, which is very theoretically leftist, and
Speaker 5: so they knew that they really didn't have another option
Speaker 5: because like we were at critical mass, and they would
Speaker 5: look really bad in the eyes of everyone that they
Speaker 5: respect if they said nothing.
Speaker 6: By the time that we announced to management that we'd unionized,
Speaker 6: something like twenty one twenty two out of twenty three
Speaker 6: hourly workers were members of the IWW.
Speaker 2: We showed up in T shirts. It was a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you walk in, when you walk in in
Speaker 3: your IWW shirt to sit down at like an all
Speaker 3: store meeting, and then the next person walks in and
Speaker 3: they're also wearing that shirt, and then the next person
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, we've got the numbers. Something's about to happen.
Speaker 4: And they knew.
Speaker 3: They knew because we had heard them I think, like
Speaker 3: not two days before being like, yeah, we think that
Speaker 3: they're on the precipice of unionizing.
Speaker 5: If we were like, boy, you have no idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they took it as well as we expected them
Speaker 3: to take it. As Finn said.
Speaker 6: We'd been in a you know, organized meeting the night
Speaker 6: before and had been in our group chet you know,
Speaker 6: that morning, preparing for all manner of different scenarios. If
Speaker 6: they didn't take it well and then and then.
Speaker 1: They did, how have they been acting after, Because there's
Speaker 1: there's definitely it can be a huge gap vaultry recognition
Speaker 1: and then them actually doing anything.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So the structure of management is real interesting at our store,
Speaker 3: Like I said, we had we have twenty three currently
Speaker 3: hourly booksellers, and then that to how many managers.
Speaker 2: Six at least eight eight.
Speaker 3: Yes, this is a fun quirk about our store. The
Speaker 3: manager to bookseller ratio is insane. And then we've got
Speaker 3: like our directors who are not counted in the manager number,
Speaker 3: which is okay.
Speaker 5: So we've got five managers and three directors.
Speaker 3: Five managers and three directors for twenty three hourly employees.
Speaker 5: And I think that, yeah, yeah, and to use that
Speaker 5: ratio in meetings, they.
Speaker 3: Talked about that a lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, we talk about it a lot like
Speaker 3: as and I think that, well, it's interesting because in
Speaker 3: these store meetings it is usually only the director that talks.
Speaker 3: I don't think we've ever heard managers talk in an
Speaker 3: all store meeting. So when the director voluntarily or recognizes
Speaker 3: our union, we also have to really look at the
Speaker 3: faces of every manager to see what they're actually feeling.
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of managers are.
Speaker 2: Have.
Speaker 3: My suspicion is that a lot of managers share equal
Speaker 3: frustration with a lot of the ways that the store
Speaker 3: is managed, even above them, And I think, obviously they
Speaker 3: can't say anything to us about how they feel about our.
Speaker 5: Union, but anecdote totally, they were so excited to take
Speaker 5: our picture after we announced that we had utilized.
Speaker 4: That's really funny.
Speaker 3: We did get management to take our photo, which.
Speaker 5: We hadn't joked about in the group chat in the morning, Like, Lol,
Speaker 5: wouldn't it be hilarious if we made the managers take
Speaker 5: our picture and then they shor did.
Speaker 4: That's so funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, On a day to day level, I think things
Speaker 3: have been generally no more or less awkward than usual.
Speaker 3: The vibe can be, yeah, bizarre on them.
Speaker 5: The vibe is also very highly colored right now by
Speaker 5: a lot of other big changes that are happening at
Speaker 5: the stores that have nothing to do with our union,
Speaker 5: and so like, it's very difficult to sort of suss
Speaker 5: out which weirdness is which, But definitely I think the
Speaker 5: union weirdness is on the lesser end.
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, I.
Speaker 6: Mean, I think the only real indication we have in
Speaker 6: the last in this kind of just little stretch since
Speaker 6: we announced is that we've been emailing with our director
Speaker 6: for like to schedule a announcement from the store side,
Speaker 6: and you know, we sent basically copy that we would
Speaker 6: like them to use and listed out what venues we
Speaker 6: would like it posted, and they've been just very accommodating
Speaker 6: to all of that. We haven't been getting any pushback
Speaker 6: like how the store how or when the store announces
Speaker 6: to the you know, mailing list and the community social
Speaker 6: media following and so on, so you know there's that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it hasn't really been talked about that publicly yet,
Speaker 3: it's about to be. I do know that when at
Speaker 3: the at the event that I was running or working
Speaker 3: at yesterday, the unionization, we we got congratulated on our
Speaker 3: unionization and one of my managers was just that was
Speaker 3: too my manager's face, and I think her reaction was like, oh,
Speaker 3: so you know they're taking it. They'd being very polite
Speaker 3: about it. I don't think they know that other people
Speaker 3: know yet, but yeah, if they, if they when it happens,
Speaker 3: I'm sure they're not going to be weird about it,
Speaker 3: at least I hope not.
Speaker 5: I think the main thing management wants to do everything
Speaker 5: in writing, and I think that's correct in some ways,
Speaker 5: and like that's about to happen, But in terms of
Speaker 5: how they will interact with us once it is fully
Speaker 5: public and fully announced and fully in writing, I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: I also think that the reactions that we're getting now
Speaker 3: are the ways that they interact with us now that
Speaker 3: we have announced, versus the ways that they may interact
Speaker 3: with us once we start really pushing for our demands.
Speaker 3: That is that that could change pretty quickly, especially when
Speaker 3: it comes to the living wage demand that is bury
Speaker 3: at the forefront of what we're fighting for. That's also
Speaker 3: been the one that has like the most tension behind
Speaker 3: it when we've brought it up in the past. And
Speaker 3: I think that once they realized that we're not just
Speaker 3: unionizing for fun, things might change pretty quickly. And so
Speaker 3: we're just going to have to be on We'll be
Speaker 3: on our.
Speaker 5: Toes because a big reason that we unionized was because
Speaker 5: we needed to have more weight behind that demand, because
Speaker 5: that was one of the core demands that has been
Speaker 5: made for the longest amount of time, with the least
Speaker 5: amount of movement and the most empty promises, and so
Speaker 5: we wanted to prove to them, hey, you have to
Speaker 5: listen to us about this. And I think that they
Speaker 5: might not have fully cottoned on to that yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess I guess we'll just sort of
Speaker 1: have to see how how they react to the sort
Speaker 1: of hammer coming down on them now that day spent
Speaker 1: all this time not actually doing anything. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I think that's a pretty good place to wrap up.
Speaker 1: Is there anyth unless there's anything else that you want
Speaker 1: to make sure that gets mentioned Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean, I think one thing I would like to
Speaker 6: say towards the end here is that a big part
Speaker 6: of what's been motivating us through all of this is
Speaker 6: seeing the sort of rise of labor power nationally with
Speaker 6: you know, the strikes in LA with like the writers,
Speaker 6: the actors strikes, seeing you know, teacher strikes going on
Speaker 6: with you know, the union stories that you all have
Speaker 6: been covering on this podcast, with folks like Frida Egg
Speaker 6: and I just yeah, I just want to say, like if,
Speaker 6: if for other folks who are working in a small space,
Speaker 6: in a in a retail space and thinking about unionizing,
Speaker 6: I mean, it's hard work, but it's deeply rewarding work,
Speaker 6: and if you put the time and dedication into it,
Speaker 6: it is absolutely possible to organize your workplace, especially if
Speaker 6: you're somewhere with twenty thirty co workers where you can
Speaker 6: get everyone into a group chat, where you can get
Speaker 6: everyone together in you know, someone's basement, someone's living room.
Speaker 6: You know, we're really at an incredible moment in labor
Speaker 6: as a movement, and just if you're thinking about organizing
Speaker 6: your workplace, start talking to your coworkers, start talking to
Speaker 6: your friends. It's doable. It's hard, but there's power in
Speaker 6: a union and we can win.
Speaker 5: Hell yeah, I think there was something to be said too,
Speaker 5: just for the like sheer morale boost that it comes
Speaker 5: from organizing with your coworkers, because it makes everything better
Speaker 5: even as like your material reality doesn't change immediately, your
Speaker 5: outlook and ability to manage it, and to just feel
Speaker 5: like someone is in the same boat as you unparalleled
Speaker 5: really worth it.
Speaker 3: It feels yeah, it feels good. It feels good to
Speaker 3: have something to be proud of, something that you've put
Speaker 3: a lot of time into, like coming to Fruition and
Speaker 3: seeing all of these people that you've worked together with
Speaker 3: to help make like tangible gains for your community. It
Speaker 3: feels like I think that when you have a job,
Speaker 3: that is, when you're working a job that sometimes makes
Speaker 3: it difficult to feel proud of yourself and what you're
Speaker 3: doing on a day to day basis for whatever reason,
Speaker 3: having organizing and having your coworker there to make something
Speaker 3: really really good, not just for each other, but for
Speaker 3: future workers and for workers at other stores who may
Speaker 3: see our efforts and go I can do that too.
Speaker 3: That makes you. That makes me proud, and it feels
Speaker 3: really good to have something to be proud of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, getting getting to fight for your class is a
Speaker 1: great feelings. It rules. Yeah, so I guess where where
Speaker 1: can people find the union if they want to help
Speaker 1: support stuff?
Speaker 5: Got it?
Speaker 2: Pull up our newly minted social media.
Speaker 4: That's nice.
Speaker 6: I had this ready to go earlier today and then
Speaker 6: I forgot to keep it open.
Speaker 1: No worries, We'll put the links in the description.
Speaker 2: These are some fresh, fresh handles.
Speaker 6: Here we go. Yeah, so, folks can find us on
Speaker 6: Instagram at sem co Op Booksellers Union, semco Pee Booksellers Union,
Speaker 6: or on Twitter at sem co Op Union. Hopefully we will,
Speaker 6: you know, start posting on soon and that's gonna be
Speaker 6: the best way to sort of keep up with our store,
Speaker 6: our situation from specifically the perspective of the laborers.
Speaker 3: Also, if you're in Chicago, come and say hi, Come
Speaker 3: to our stores, Come talk to uh our like, come
Speaker 3: talk to the workers. We have a lot to say.
Speaker 3: We'd love to talk to you about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a great place and it's gotten significantly
Speaker 1: better now that this now now that it's unionized, and
Speaker 1: hopefully one day, I don't know, fuck it, don't all
Speaker 1: I'll say this hope hopefully one day it is a
Speaker 1: fucking actual co op.
Speaker 6: Hell yeah, that's the dream, that's all we want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so thank you all for coming on and good
Speaker 1: luck and yeah hope hope management folds like a fucking
Speaker 1: wet paper towel.
Speaker 6: Hell yeah, thanks so much for having.
Speaker 3: Us you so much, this was amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, excited to have talked to you all, and yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this been can happen here? You can do
Speaker 1: this too, and yeah, well we'll have we'll have exciting
Speaker 1: stuff coming tomorrow too.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Go go organize your workplace and make your bosses viserable
Speaker 1: and make your lives better.
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