WEBVTT - The Campaign Behind Chicago’s Only Union Bookstore 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:07.760 Also media, Welcome to it could happen here a podcast 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.239 where my old bookstore from college is unionized, and I'm 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.600 very excited about it. I'm your host, Mio Wong, and 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.160 with me to talk about this this tremendous event are 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:21.840 Caleb Theo and Finn from the Seminary co Op Booksellers Union. Yeah, 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:22.680 welcome to the show. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:25.840 Thank you so much for having us. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:26.880 This is so excited. 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:27.200 Thank you. 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.320 Yeah, I'm excited to you both because I think somehow 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:34.680 in the mold that I got almost three years i've 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.080 been doing this show now, Jesus Christ, that is terrifying. Somehow, 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:40.920 I think this is the first bookstore union we've talked to, 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:43.959 which is remarkable. I don't I don't know how it's 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:46.199 taken this long, but I'm so excited that y'all get that. 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:47.080 Y'all the first. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:50.320 I mean, as far as we know, we're the first 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:51.480 in the city of Chicago. 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:53.400 Hell yeah, we're. 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.760 The only in the city. There are like past bookstores 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:01.000 that have since closed which we're unionized. But yeah, as 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.720 best we know, we're now we're currently the only union 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.440 bookstore in the city of Chicago. Proper. 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.200 God, maybe there's one up in Evanston or something, but 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.080 seems unlikely. This is this is I don't know. I've 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.120 been I've been. I've been drilling. I've been drilling the 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.759 Evanston knowledge into my listeners' heads. Now, so now all 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.560 of you people in Rhode Island or whatever know about 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:24.880 my hatred of Evanston. 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.240 An extremely fair grudge. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.720 Okay, so speaking of grudges, all right, sobody, co op 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.720 is it's it's it's an interesting bookstore in the sense 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:41.920 that like it's it's it is on the campus of 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.679 the University of Chicago, like it's just it's just sort 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.760 of there. And there's been a lot of things happening 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:54.760 on that campus in the past month or so. But yeah, 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:56.720 I guess what I wanted to I guess the place 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.560 I wanted to start was sort of Okay, so you 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:01.520 should call it is a campus that has a lot 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:05.920 of union organizing happening on it in a bunch of 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.440 across a bunch of different kind of they're mostly university unions, 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:12.280 but a lot different all of different kinds of workers 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.720 in the university have unions. How did that sort of 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.080 impact the way this campaign started? 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:23.079 That's a really good question. I I feel like, there's 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:24.880 a few things I want to talk about. I think 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:31.560 there's the the fact that a lot of us booksellers 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.320 who come to the sem co op were coming from 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.600 many of us came from New Chicago or had been 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:41.680 there at some point and had been around that kind 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.639 of organizing. So I think that that definitely has an impact. 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.200 I also think that many of us know people because 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.359 so many of us are in the community. We all 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.880 know a lot of people who are organizers, a lot 0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:01.079 of people in the grad student union, and howing them 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:05.440 to talk to and kind of like bounce ideas off 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:12.600 of and commiserate all of that has been really great. 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:16.440 Yeah, And like I think it's been very emboldening to 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:20.920 know that we have that support, you know that because 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:26.120 we have friends and comrades and roommates in GSU, in 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.359 faculty unions, you know, the kind of the whole time, 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.799 we've known that, Like, if we ever need to draw 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.280 on that external support for any kind of you know, 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:41.040 public campaign that we have like a connection to like 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.600 a broader labor of movement in the area, that will 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:45.560 be there for us. 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:47.760 This is something I guess you've already touched on a bit, 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.160 but I think This leads into another question that I had, 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.080 which was, Yeah, I wanted to talk about the sort 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.120 of the influence of campus and how how how the 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.360 dynamics of that kind of change, what these what these 0:03:59.400 --> 0:03:59.960 campaigns look like. 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:07.480 It's really interesting because our relationship to campus is a 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:11.000 little bit unclear to us in terms of the way 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.120 that the bookstore functions in relation to its university partners, 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.600 because we work with them very closely. There are a landlord, 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:22.520 among many other things, but we are not directly affiliated 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:25.720 with them, and we carry course books, but that's by 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.680 professor request and we can't always do it, and so 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:35.080 it's a really close, really opaque relationship. 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:43.880 I think the university really likes to have a bookstore 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:48.920 that isn't like university affiliated on paper, but still very 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.960 much is a part of the culture of the university, 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.160 and so we see a lot of that kind of 0:04:55.240 --> 0:05:00.159 inform things like our stock and the events that the 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.719 UH professors that we work with, and of course like 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.440 the students who come in and use the space and 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.840 are physically in the space every day doing work buying 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:11.680 their books. 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:16.000 It's it's always weird kind of doing organizing in these 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.880 spaces because like I don't know you you're you're dealing 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.720 with this mixture. Well you Chicago especially is like this 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:26.720 where there's it's this really kind of weird and volatile 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:31.279 mixture of like a bunch of on the one hand, 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:33.560 like a bunch of very brave, very committed like people 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.320 who are doing organizing, a bunch of people who are 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.680 just completely checked out, and then a bunch of people 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:39.760 who are going to go lead cups in South America. 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:47.000 And I don't know, it's it's it's a that was 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.800 my experience back doing Actually, God, I was, I was 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.200 on the GS you pick it line, like, how God 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:54.400 that was? That was half a decade ago. Jesus Christ. Sorry, 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.119 this is this is turning into the Mia thinks about 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.280 our time that you which it shouldn't. 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:06.640 Yeah, That's something that is notable too, is that, like 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:11.200 we have a lot of community support when it comes 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.320 to people who are theoretically in favor of unionizing and 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:20.240 theoretically in favor of labor power, and that extends all 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.719 the way through our management team, like they are very, 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:28.440 very in favor of the concept of labor rights. And 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.720 so it's really interesting trying to parse that dynamics sometimes 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.440 of like, Okay, these are people who are supposedly our 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.560 biggest supporters, but at the same time their actions do 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.719 not very well line up with those ideals. 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.720 I think having a section at our store that is 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:50.280 devoted to critical theory and Marxism while not paying us 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:54.240 a living wage is a real funny situation. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:56.760 The irony stings real hard. 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.760 Yeah, it's this real read the theory, act on it, 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:02.200 but read the theory. 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.240 It's been real fun. Like we during like your course 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.360 book rush seasons, we have like sem co op trading 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.000 cards with pictures of like different authors. It's always really 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.280 fun handing out the ones that are like Carl Marx 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.480 sem co ops number one best selling author. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.880 And no, it's definitely not because every freshman at University 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:27.880 of Chicago has to buy him from us. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.400 Yeah, that's that's another that's like kind of unrelated, really 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:35.679 funny thing. But yeah, like all of the Chicago econ 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.600 dipshits at least nominally red marks. Did they open it 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.840 low odds? But yeah, I don't know that that seems 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:49.920 like a psychologically destabilizing contradiction that you're dealing with them 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:50.600 all the time. 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:56.560 That same kind of like contradiction between like spirit and practice. 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.360 Just like it's also right there in our name where 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.960 we're the Seminary co Op bookstore, and like two thirds 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.880 of that is not true. We haven't been affiliated with 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.920 the seminary in decades. We were for a time a 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.480 member co op like RII, but we've never been a 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.560 worker's co op. We haven't even been a member co 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.520 op since twenty fourteen. We are a bookstore, so there's 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:18.480 like that. 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.000 But the old one in three eight bad being simply 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:26.360 does not apply here. That is in fact very bad well. 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.000 And I think that that is like a very big 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:33.040 part of how the larger community sees our stores as well, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.320 and the like mismatch there because yeah, of course we're 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.959 like on the Chicago campus. We are very much connected 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.319 to the student body and the faculty there, but we're 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.160 also like in the middle of like our neighborhood where 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.439 there are plenty of other people who are not affiliated 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.320 with the college who are like coming in buying their books. 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.280 There's the fact that like our our second location down 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.280 the street, fifty seventh Street Books, which has like our 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:03.920 kids sects and like a bunch of other less academic 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:10.000 stuff like that's very heavily trafficked as well, and the 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:17.040 communities understanding of us as a like worker owned not 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.560 not for profit, which is a very confusing term because 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.880 it's not a nonprofit, it's a not for profit. That 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:29.160 that disconnect between what the community needs and wants in 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:35.920 its bookstores and what the management has decided our bookstores 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.920 mean to the community is it's felt. That's like a 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:41.760 very felt mismatch. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.400 Yeah, so I'm assuming that that that's sort of the 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.400 kinds of things that I mean, obviously the standard not 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.400 getting paid off, et cetera, et cetera, are those those 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.079 are sort of things that led into how the organizing started. 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.720 Yeah, I think it's a lot the way that like 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.520 the mismatch is so parent to us, and it really 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.800 brought us together, Like we have such a unique sense 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.800 of solidarity as a working cohort. I feel like there's 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.560 a lot of commiseration because we walk a very weird 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.280 line throughout our community, and so I think it's a 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.840 little bit just trying to assess what's going on in 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:24.600 our stores and like how does that compare to what 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.319 management tells us on a regular basis, and shouldn't we 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:28.440 be doing something about that? 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:29.600 Yeah? 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.880 I think that. I know that our first like big 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:38.240 pre union meeting where we all got together in the 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.600 basement of one of our houses and commiserated, was like 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:47.160 after a pretty rough like all store meeting that we 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.880 had had in which we had continued to get really 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:55.920 no response regarding questions about a living wage or how 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:02.240 we choose stock for our store, how communication between management 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:07.120 and hourly booksellers was just so lacking, and we just 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:12.600 got the same kind of messaging that was being given 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:18.360 to customers, which is we're working on it. You're all 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.280 of these things that you're saying are so valid, and 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:23.840 we'll address them at a later date. 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.920 Yeah, we were getting this great response of like, you know, 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.120 we want to get you to not just a living wage, 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.600 but a professional wage, and we have a five year plan, 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.200 but we were halfway through that five year plan. The 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.160 five year plan started right before the pandemic and had 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.720 not been adjusted since, and there was no information on 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:49.080 how we were going to in the last half of 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:53.640 this five year plan, you know, suddenly increase wages to 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.800 whatever a professional wage is, let alone a living wage. 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:03.199 So that was just a very straighting, like completely empty answer. 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.319 I think we were all very we were all hurt 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.960 and we got like the very first message in our 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.160 group chat, which was just like so we're we're gonna 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:16.920 we're gonna unionize, right, incredible, And that was like the 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.800 start of it. And that was like last I want 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:25.720 to say that was January of twenty twenty three was 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:26.640 when that started. 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:28.800 Yeah, they'reabouts. 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.320 Yeah, that's a that's I guess it's a pretty vast 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.400 campaign by the looks of it. It's yeah, about it 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:49.880 about it a bit over a year. Yeah, yeah, congratulations 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.120 to you all, by the way, thank you. 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:53.239 Thanks. 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:58.040 It's really thanks to the team that started in January though, 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.240 because they have been really really proactive about reaching out 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:05.040 to people when there are new booksellers. Because I have 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:06.679 kind of a weird tenure at the store. I've worked 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.400 there two separate times, but I wasn't part of the 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.679 January meeting. But when I rejoined the co op in August, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.440 I think within the first week that I was there, 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:18.319 one of my kokers like came up to me while 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.760 I was at the register and like in the standard 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:22.600 getting to know you kind of speech, was. 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.840 Like, and how do you feel about labor organizing? And 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:27.680 I was like very in favor. Why do you ask. 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.800 Yeah that by the way, dear listenier. If you're at 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:34.560 a union, that is that is what is known as 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.280 good practice. It is in fact a thing that you 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.840 need to do whenever someone new joins your workplace and 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.160 you have a union, bring them in. And if you 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.160 don't do this, your unions will stagnate die. And there 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.400 are there there are like there are actually there are 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.080 unions out there who will get mad at you for 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.760 doing this because it takes resources or whatever, and don't 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.840 listen to them. Please stop. Simply do not do this. 0:13:55.520 --> 0:14:00.000 This is the only defense against turnover, which is huge. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:01.920 Stories that most need to unionize. 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.720 Yep, yep, we have really crazy turnover. Like I think 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.559 that of the original people who started talking, I mean 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.240 and this was like there was a previous unionization effort 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.000 too before our time that we know very little about. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:20.200 But of the original like January folks, very few of 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:24.640 us are left just because of the turnover rate, which 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.480 is immense, and we get like groups of like three 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:33.600 to four people hired at once every six months or so, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.080 and it's like, Okay, how quickly can we scope folks out? 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.240 How quickly can we like do like a one on 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.480 one and talk to them about how they feel about 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.440 labor organizing. How can we get a sense of like 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:52.120 what their main concerns are with the job and what 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.240 they want from unionizing. 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:55.120 Yeah. 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.320 Well, and the turnover is also one of the things 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:01.760 that sparked this because we had a way of folks 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:06.680 who were fired asked to leave or quit on their 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:11.040 own terms. And we had another coworker who knew that 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:13.600 she was kind of reaching the end of when she 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:18.200 could you know, stay at the bookstore and was just 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.600 very committed to like getting some momentum going in her 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:27.400 last handful of months here and created, like you oside 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.480 the group chat and was just very quit, like all right, everyone, 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.440 we're in the group chat, like this message if you 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.360 agree with the following statement. And then it was like, 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.560 you know, the statements about like how much you care 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.320 about the job, and then statements about like how much 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.880 you agree that like a union would improve things, and 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:47.160 just about everybody agreed a union would be a huge improvement. 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.600 And that was I mean, that was also a really 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.720 incredible resource because like before someone just created the group chat, 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.880 we're in this really awkward phase of like three or 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.280 four different groups of people trying to get a ball 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:06.680 rolling and very like cautiously approaching folks. I had approached 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.680 one or two people and been like that same exact question, 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:14.240 like how do you feel about unions? And then there 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.640 was someone else who was going around asking the exact 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.000 same question. And you know, I was also at Redge 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.240 one day when she came up and asked asked me that, 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.960 and I was like, Jesus, do I not have enough 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.520 patches on my jacket? This is a question I need 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:29.240 to fix something. 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.040 It was a lot of like ships passing until the 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.320 group chat got created, and then it was really quick 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:43.160 we had We started having like meetings. I want to 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:48.280 say we had one like every three weeks to a month. 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:54.720 In that first six months, we got together a letter 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.800 of demands that we all read and signed. It was 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.040 I think at the time of the how many were 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:06.360 working there. It was like all but one maybe wow 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.719 person signed it and we all went to deliver it 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:17.040 and read it to management and got a bunch of 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:21.160 stuff right away. This was like well before yeah, well 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:25.080 before we had like signed with an or decided who 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:27.680 we wanted to unize with, and we still just threw 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.440 that direct action got so much done. 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.480 And I think that's part of the success that we've 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:36.400 had so far too, is we do just have kind 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.520 of a large number in our cohort of impatient people, 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:44.480 which means that like, once we figure out what we want, 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:46.639 we're just like, Okay, what's the fastest way we can 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:48.560 ask for this and get it recognized. 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.840 That first march that we did, that first letter was 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.600 also just I mean, it really like fueled all of 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.919 the rest of this, I think because the stuff that 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:05.000 one was so I think so immediately felt for everyone 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:05.639 working there. 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.879 There wasn't things, Uh what what kinds of things did 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:09.600 you win in that one? 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:15.520 We one expanded health insurance. Previously very few people qualified 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:21.119 for health insurance. We got that pretty tremendously broadened. I mean, 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:23.240 that's I think how THEO and I ended up getting 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:28.359 health insurance. We got things like, you know, improved maternity leave, 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.359 improved bereavement leave. The definition of who you could take 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.040 berievement leave for was broadened. It was like previously a 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:40.000 grid of like nine types of relation, and then it 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.560 got just fully expanded to like include chosen family and 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.760 just whoever you know, you felt the need to claim 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:49.919 berievement leave for. As well as just how many days, 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:55.240 which was tremendous. I mean, it was like a week 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:59.560 after the change, you know, got actually implemented into our 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.879 our leave system, that I found out a relative was dying, 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:10.440 And because we had gotten that expansion, I didn't have 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:15.760 to choose between driving my grandmother to be by her bedside, 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:20.680 be by this other relative's bedside, or going to the funeral. 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.760 I was able to take time off for both of those, which, 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.320 you know, meant everything to me, meant everythingthing to my grandma. 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:34.640 And so, you know, when we talk when we're looking 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:36.439 at issues, when we're organizing, and we talk about things 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.440 that are widely felt, that are deeply felt, that are actionable, 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:43.440 and like those kinds of changes are very deeply felt. 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.280 And so there wasn't you know, there really hasn't been 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.960 a point since then when anyone could remotely make the 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:57.240 argument that organizing doesn't create positive, impactful change. 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:00.720 Yeah. The handbook that I was onboarded with second time 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.480 that I came to the stores was significantly different than 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.120 the handbook that I was on boarded with the first time, 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.360 And it was because this list of demands had gone 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.439 out in the interim, because the policies about like just 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:18.200 our character as a store and the way that we 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.600 want to interact with our community were completely different, and 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:27.159 it was very much that like booksellers who interact with 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.240 the community on a daily basis, had had a say 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:30.160 in the meantime. 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.840 Hell yeah, okay, So unfortunately we have to go to 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:37.280 an ad break. But we returned, well, I don't know, 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.920 go back to what we were doing before, question work. 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:43.359 I don't know, not not. My fight is to ad pivot. 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:45.520 But you know, look, if they if they, if they've 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:47.480 paid me more, they'd get more good AD pivots, but 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:48.960 they don't fear getting the media. 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.640 Once you gotta work your wage. 0:20:51.840 --> 0:21:06.280 Yeah, and we're back. Yeah. 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:11.400 So you know, the organizing students have come together pretty quickly. 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.080 I guess, do you want to talk about how you 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.639 ended up being an AWW shop? 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:19.800 Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to talk on that a 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:21.720 little bit. You know, when we got to the point 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:26.679 where were deciding who we wanted to affiliate with, I 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.400 sent out feelers to just a bunch of different unions. 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:34.399 Two got back to me. A larger trade union that 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:38.040 I'm totally spacing on the name of, or commercial union, 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:41.800 the term for like the really big one, the really 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:48.160 big types of unions, and the IWW, and I had 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.200 meetings or phone calls with representatives from both of them. 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:54.240 The you and I put together kind of a graphic 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.800 sort of comparing like the pros and cons of two 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:03.959 very different options, right, like a big international union or 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.080 I mean IWW obviously international, it's right in there in 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:11.919 the name, but obviously a smaller, much more autonomous union. 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:18.160 And I wanted to go IWW. I did my absolute 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.840 best to not let that bias inform the pros and 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:25.120 cons lists and whatnot, and we, you know, we sat 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:30.800 around in this room here and just chatted it out, 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:33.200 talked about our preferences, what mattered to all of us, 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:38.000 and you know, what we decided was that, amongst other things, 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:40.480 one of like the really big sort of organizing principles 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:44.560 of this has been increasing our own agency and autonomy 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:48.720 in the workplace, and the IWW's model just felt like 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:53.240 it would give us the most control over our own campaign. 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:58.280 And so that's that's how we ended up voting to 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:03.760 I'm an IWW, you know, lead then campaign and now 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:05.520 finally shop branch. 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:10.320 I think that the IWW really fit how our store 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.760 and our organizing had worked thus far too. It felt 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:18.120 like it matched the character of our organizing. It's definitely 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.919 much scrappier it, you know. The IWW having a history 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:28.360 in Chicago definitely was a factor in my personal desire 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:31.160 to be affiliated with them. I thought it was really 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:35.240 cool to be joining that like long tradition of IWW 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:39.720 shops in Chicago. I think that direct the emphasis on 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:47.720 direct employee action versus like contract bargaining fit very well 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:50.119 for us as well. I think, especially considering things like 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:54.119 the turnover and how we wanted to make sure that 0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:56.919 you know, if we argue to contract, if we bargained 0:23:56.960 --> 0:24:02.199 for a contract now, that it would be difficult to know, 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:05.639 you know, even a year or two down the line, 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:08.760 if those points and those things that we've bargained for 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:14.679 would be what folks would want then. And so getting 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:22.000 to use more direct action and response to make gains 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:28.919 in the workplace has been I think really helpful strategy 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.480 and one that the IWW facilitates really well with how 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:35.080