1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Also media, Welcome to it could happen here a podcast 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: where my old bookstore from college is unionized, and I'm 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: very excited about it. I'm your host, Mio Wong, and 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: with me to talk about this this tremendous event are 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: Caleb Theo and Finn from the Seminary co Op Booksellers Union. Yeah, 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having us. 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 3: This is so excited. 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 4: Thank you. 10 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to you both because I think somehow 11 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: in the mold that I got almost three years i've 12 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: been doing this show now, Jesus Christ, that is terrifying. Somehow, 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: I think this is the first bookstore union we've talked to, 14 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 1: which is remarkable. I don't I don't know how it's 15 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: taken this long, but I'm so excited that y'all get that. 16 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: Y'all the first. 17 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 5: I mean, as far as we know, we're the first 18 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 5: in the city of Chicago. 19 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, we're. 20 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 6: The only in the city. There are like past bookstores 21 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 6: that have since closed which we're unionized. But yeah, as 22 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 6: best we know, we're now we're currently the only union 23 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 6: bookstore in the city of Chicago. Proper. 24 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: God, maybe there's one up in Evanston or something, but 25 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: seems unlikely. This is this is I don't know. I've 26 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: been I've been. I've been drilling. I've been drilling the 27 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 1: Evanston knowledge into my listeners' heads. Now, so now all 28 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: of you people in Rhode Island or whatever know about 29 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: my hatred of Evanston. 30 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 6: An extremely fair grudge. 31 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: Okay, so speaking of grudges, all right, sobody, co op 32 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: is it's it's it's an interesting bookstore in the sense 33 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: that like it's it's it is on the campus of 34 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: the University of Chicago, like it's just it's just sort 35 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: of there. And there's been a lot of things happening 36 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: on that campus in the past month or so. But yeah, 37 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: I guess what I wanted to I guess the place 38 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to start was sort of Okay, so you 39 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: should call it is a campus that has a lot 40 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: of union organizing happening on it in a bunch of 41 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: across a bunch of different kind of they're mostly university unions, 42 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: but a lot different all of different kinds of workers 43 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: in the university have unions. How did that sort of 44 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: impact the way this campaign started? 45 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 3: That's a really good question. I I feel like, there's 46 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 3: a few things I want to talk about. I think 47 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 3: there's the the fact that a lot of us booksellers 48 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 3: who come to the sem co op were coming from 49 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 3: many of us came from New Chicago or had been 50 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 3: there at some point and had been around that kind 51 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 3: of organizing. So I think that that definitely has an impact. 52 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 3: I also think that many of us know people because 53 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 3: so many of us are in the community. We all 54 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 3: know a lot of people who are organizers, a lot 55 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 3: of people in the grad student union, and howing them 56 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 3: to talk to and kind of like bounce ideas off 57 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 3: of and commiserate all of that has been really great. 58 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 6: Yeah, And like I think it's been very emboldening to 59 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 6: know that we have that support, you know that because 60 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 6: we have friends and comrades and roommates in GSU, in 61 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 6: faculty unions, you know, the kind of the whole time, 62 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 6: we've known that, Like, if we ever need to draw 63 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 6: on that external support for any kind of you know, 64 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 6: public campaign that we have like a connection to like 65 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 6: a broader labor of movement in the area, that will 66 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 6: be there for us. 67 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: This is something I guess you've already touched on a bit, 68 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: but I think This leads into another question that I had, 69 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: which was, Yeah, I wanted to talk about the sort 70 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: of the influence of campus and how how how the 71 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: dynamics of that kind of change, what these what these 72 00:03:59,400 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: campaigns look like. 73 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 5: It's really interesting because our relationship to campus is a 74 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 5: little bit unclear to us in terms of the way 75 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 5: that the bookstore functions in relation to its university partners, 76 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 5: because we work with them very closely. There are a landlord, 77 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 5: among many other things, but we are not directly affiliated 78 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 5: with them, and we carry course books, but that's by 79 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 5: professor request and we can't always do it, and so 80 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 5: it's a really close, really opaque relationship. 81 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: I think the university really likes to have a bookstore 82 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 3: that isn't like university affiliated on paper, but still very 83 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 3: much is a part of the culture of the university, 84 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 3: and so we see a lot of that kind of 85 00:04:55,240 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 3: inform things like our stock and the events that the 86 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 3: UH professors that we work with, and of course like 87 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: the students who come in and use the space and 88 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 3: are physically in the space every day doing work buying 89 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 3: their books. 90 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: It's it's always weird kind of doing organizing in these 91 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: spaces because like I don't know you you're you're dealing 92 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: with this mixture. Well you Chicago especially is like this 93 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: where there's it's this really kind of weird and volatile 94 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: mixture of like a bunch of on the one hand, 95 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: like a bunch of very brave, very committed like people 96 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: who are doing organizing, a bunch of people who are 97 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: just completely checked out, and then a bunch of people 98 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: who are going to go lead cups in South America. 99 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: And I don't know, it's it's it's a that was 100 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: my experience back doing Actually, God, I was, I was 101 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: on the GS you pick it line, like, how God 102 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: that was? That was half a decade ago. Jesus Christ. Sorry, 103 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,119 Speaker 1: this is this is turning into the Mia thinks about 104 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: our time that you which it shouldn't. 105 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, That's something that is notable too, is that, like 106 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 5: we have a lot of community support when it comes 107 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 5: to people who are theoretically in favor of unionizing and 108 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 5: theoretically in favor of labor power, and that extends all 109 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 5: the way through our management team, like they are very, 110 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 5: very in favor of the concept of labor rights. And 111 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 5: so it's really interesting trying to parse that dynamics sometimes 112 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 5: of like, Okay, these are people who are supposedly our 113 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 5: biggest supporters, but at the same time their actions do 114 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 5: not very well line up with those ideals. 115 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 3: I think having a section at our store that is 116 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 3: devoted to critical theory and Marxism while not paying us 117 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 3: a living wage is a real funny situation. 118 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: The irony stings real hard. 119 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's this real read the theory, act on it, 120 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: but read the theory. 121 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 6: It's been real fun. Like we during like your course 122 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 6: book rush seasons, we have like sem co op trading 123 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 6: cards with pictures of like different authors. It's always really 124 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 6: fun handing out the ones that are like Carl Marx 125 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 6: sem co ops number one best selling author. 126 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 5: And no, it's definitely not because every freshman at University 127 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 5: of Chicago has to buy him from us. 128 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's another that's like kind of unrelated, really 129 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,679 Speaker 1: funny thing. But yeah, like all of the Chicago econ 130 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: dipshits at least nominally red marks. Did they open it 131 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: low odds? But yeah, I don't know that that seems 132 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: like a psychologically destabilizing contradiction that you're dealing with them 133 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: all the time. 134 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 6: That same kind of like contradiction between like spirit and practice. 135 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 6: Just like it's also right there in our name where 136 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 6: we're the Seminary co Op bookstore, and like two thirds 137 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 6: of that is not true. We haven't been affiliated with 138 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 6: the seminary in decades. We were for a time a 139 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 6: member co op like RII, but we've never been a 140 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 6: worker's co op. We haven't even been a member co 141 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 6: op since twenty fourteen. We are a bookstore, so there's 142 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 6: like that. 143 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: But the old one in three eight bad being simply 144 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: does not apply here. That is in fact very bad well. 145 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 3: And I think that that is like a very big 146 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 3: part of how the larger community sees our stores as well, 147 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 3: and the like mismatch there because yeah, of course we're 148 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 3: like on the Chicago campus. We are very much connected 149 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 3: to the student body and the faculty there, but we're 150 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 3: also like in the middle of like our neighborhood where 151 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 3: there are plenty of other people who are not affiliated 152 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 3: with the college who are like coming in buying their books. 153 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 3: There's the fact that like our our second location down 154 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 3: the street, fifty seventh Street Books, which has like our 155 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 3: kids sects and like a bunch of other less academic 156 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 3: stuff like that's very heavily trafficked as well, and the 157 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 3: communities understanding of us as a like worker owned not 158 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 3: not for profit, which is a very confusing term because 159 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 3: it's not a nonprofit, it's a not for profit. That 160 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 3: that disconnect between what the community needs and wants in 161 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 3: its bookstores and what the management has decided our bookstores 162 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: mean to the community is it's felt. That's like a 163 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 3: very felt mismatch. 164 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm assuming that that that's sort of the 165 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: kinds of things that I mean, obviously the standard not 166 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: getting paid off, et cetera, et cetera, are those those 167 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 1: are sort of things that led into how the organizing started. 168 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's a lot the way that like 169 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 5: the mismatch is so parent to us, and it really 170 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 5: brought us together, Like we have such a unique sense 171 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 5: of solidarity as a working cohort. I feel like there's 172 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 5: a lot of commiseration because we walk a very weird 173 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 5: line throughout our community, and so I think it's a 174 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 5: little bit just trying to assess what's going on in 175 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 5: our stores and like how does that compare to what 176 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 5: management tells us on a regular basis, and shouldn't we 177 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 5: be doing something about that? 178 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 6: Yeah? 179 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 3: I think that. I know that our first like big 180 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 3: pre union meeting where we all got together in the 181 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 3: basement of one of our houses and commiserated, was like 182 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 3: after a pretty rough like all store meeting that we 183 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 3: had had in which we had continued to get really 184 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 3: no response regarding questions about a living wage or how 185 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 3: we choose stock for our store, how communication between management 186 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 3: and hourly booksellers was just so lacking, and we just 187 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: got the same kind of messaging that was being given 188 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 3: to customers, which is we're working on it. You're all 189 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 3: of these things that you're saying are so valid, and 190 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 3: we'll address them at a later date. 191 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, we were getting this great response of like, you know, 192 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 6: we want to get you to not just a living wage, 193 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 6: but a professional wage, and we have a five year plan, 194 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 6: but we were halfway through that five year plan. The 195 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 6: five year plan started right before the pandemic and had 196 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 6: not been adjusted since, and there was no information on 197 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 6: how we were going to in the last half of 198 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 6: this five year plan, you know, suddenly increase wages to 199 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 6: whatever a professional wage is, let alone a living wage. 200 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 6: So that was just a very straighting, like completely empty answer. 201 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 3: I think we were all very we were all hurt 202 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 3: and we got like the very first message in our 203 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 3: group chat, which was just like so we're we're gonna 204 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 3: we're gonna unionize, right, incredible, And that was like the 205 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 3: start of it. And that was like last I want 206 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 3: to say that was January of twenty twenty three was 207 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 3: when that started. 208 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, they'reabouts. 209 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's I guess it's a pretty vast 210 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: campaign by the looks of it. It's yeah, about it 211 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: about it a bit over a year. Yeah, yeah, congratulations 212 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: to you all, by the way, thank you. 213 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:53,239 Speaker 3: Thanks. 214 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 5: It's really thanks to the team that started in January though, 215 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 5: because they have been really really proactive about reaching out 216 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 5: to people when there are new booksellers. Because I have 217 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 5: kind of a weird tenure at the store. I've worked 218 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 5: there two separate times, but I wasn't part of the 219 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 5: January meeting. But when I rejoined the co op in August, 220 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 5: I think within the first week that I was there, 221 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 5: one of my kokers like came up to me while 222 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 5: I was at the register and like in the standard 223 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 5: getting to know you kind of speech, was. 224 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 2: Like, and how do you feel about labor organizing? And 225 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 2: I was like very in favor. Why do you ask. 226 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: Yeah that by the way, dear listenier. If you're at 227 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: a union, that is that is what is known as 228 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: good practice. It is in fact a thing that you 229 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: need to do whenever someone new joins your workplace and 230 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: you have a union, bring them in. And if you 231 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: don't do this, your unions will stagnate die. And there 232 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: are there there are like there are actually there are 233 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: unions out there who will get mad at you for 234 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: doing this because it takes resources or whatever, and don't 235 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: listen to them. Please stop. Simply do not do this. 236 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 5: This is the only defense against turnover, which is huge. 237 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: Stories that most need to unionize. 238 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 3: Yep, yep, we have really crazy turnover. Like I think 239 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 3: that of the original people who started talking, I mean 240 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 3: and this was like there was a previous unionization effort 241 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 3: too before our time that we know very little about. 242 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 3: But of the original like January folks, very few of 243 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 3: us are left just because of the turnover rate, which 244 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 3: is immense, and we get like groups of like three 245 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 3: to four people hired at once every six months or so, 246 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 3: and it's like, Okay, how quickly can we scope folks out? 247 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 3: How quickly can we like do like a one on 248 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 3: one and talk to them about how they feel about 249 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 3: labor organizing. How can we get a sense of like 250 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 3: what their main concerns are with the job and what 251 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 3: they want from unionizing. 252 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. 253 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 6: Well, and the turnover is also one of the things 254 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 6: that sparked this because we had a way of folks 255 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 6: who were fired asked to leave or quit on their 256 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 6: own terms. And we had another coworker who knew that 257 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 6: she was kind of reaching the end of when she 258 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 6: could you know, stay at the bookstore and was just 259 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 6: very committed to like getting some momentum going in her 260 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 6: last handful of months here and created, like you oside 261 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 6: the group chat and was just very quit, like all right, everyone, 262 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 6: we're in the group chat, like this message if you 263 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 6: agree with the following statement. And then it was like, 264 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 6: you know, the statements about like how much you care 265 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 6: about the job, and then statements about like how much 266 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 6: you agree that like a union would improve things, and 267 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 6: just about everybody agreed a union would be a huge improvement. 268 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 6: And that was I mean, that was also a really 269 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 6: incredible resource because like before someone just created the group chat, 270 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 6: we're in this really awkward phase of like three or 271 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 6: four different groups of people trying to get a ball 272 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 6: rolling and very like cautiously approaching folks. I had approached 273 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 6: one or two people and been like that same exact question, 274 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 6: like how do you feel about unions? And then there 275 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 6: was someone else who was going around asking the exact 276 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 6: same question. And you know, I was also at Redge 277 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 6: one day when she came up and asked asked me that, 278 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 6: and I was like, Jesus, do I not have enough 279 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 6: patches on my jacket? This is a question I need 280 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 6: to fix something. 281 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 3: It was a lot of like ships passing until the 282 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 3: group chat got created, and then it was really quick 283 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 3: we had We started having like meetings. I want to 284 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 3: say we had one like every three weeks to a month. 285 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 3: In that first six months, we got together a letter 286 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 3: of demands that we all read and signed. It was 287 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 3: I think at the time of the how many were 288 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 3: working there. It was like all but one maybe wow 289 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,719 Speaker 3: person signed it and we all went to deliver it 290 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 3: and read it to management and got a bunch of 291 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 3: stuff right away. This was like well before yeah, well 292 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 3: before we had like signed with an or decided who 293 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 3: we wanted to unize with, and we still just threw 294 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 3: that direct action got so much done. 295 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 5: And I think that's part of the success that we've 296 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 5: had so far too, is we do just have kind 297 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 5: of a large number in our cohort of impatient people, 298 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 5: which means that like, once we figure out what we want, 299 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 5: we're just like, Okay, what's the fastest way we can 300 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 5: ask for this and get it recognized. 301 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 6: That first march that we did, that first letter was 302 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 6: also just I mean, it really like fueled all of 303 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 6: the rest of this, I think because the stuff that 304 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 6: one was so I think so immediately felt for everyone 305 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 6: working there. 306 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: There wasn't things, Uh what what kinds of things did 307 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: you win in that one? 308 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 6: We one expanded health insurance. Previously very few people qualified 309 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 6: for health insurance. We got that pretty tremendously broadened. I mean, 310 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 6: that's I think how THEO and I ended up getting 311 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 6: health insurance. We got things like, you know, improved maternity leave, 312 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 6: improved bereavement leave. The definition of who you could take 313 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 6: berievement leave for was broadened. It was like previously a 314 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 6: grid of like nine types of relation, and then it 315 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 6: got just fully expanded to like include chosen family and 316 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 6: just whoever you know, you felt the need to claim 317 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 6: berievement leave for. As well as just how many days, 318 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 6: which was tremendous. I mean, it was like a week 319 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 6: after the change, you know, got actually implemented into our 320 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 6: our leave system, that I found out a relative was dying, 321 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 6: And because we had gotten that expansion, I didn't have 322 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 6: to choose between driving my grandmother to be by her bedside, 323 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 6: be by this other relative's bedside, or going to the funeral. 324 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 6: I was able to take time off for both of those, which, 325 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 6: you know, meant everything to me, meant everythingthing to my grandma. 326 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 6: And so, you know, when we talk when we're looking 327 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 6: at issues, when we're organizing, and we talk about things 328 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 6: that are widely felt, that are deeply felt, that are actionable, 329 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 6: and like those kinds of changes are very deeply felt. 330 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 6: And so there wasn't you know, there really hasn't been 331 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 6: a point since then when anyone could remotely make the 332 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 6: argument that organizing doesn't create positive, impactful change. 333 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 5: Yeah. The handbook that I was onboarded with second time 334 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 5: that I came to the stores was significantly different than 335 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 5: the handbook that I was on boarded with the first time, 336 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 5: And it was because this list of demands had gone 337 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 5: out in the interim, because the policies about like just 338 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 5: our character as a store and the way that we 339 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 5: want to interact with our community were completely different, and 340 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 5: it was very much that like booksellers who interact with 341 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 5: the community on a daily basis, had had a say 342 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 5: in the meantime. 343 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, okay, So unfortunately we have to go to 344 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: an ad break. But we returned, well, I don't know, 345 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: go back to what we were doing before, question work. 346 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: I don't know, not not. My fight is to ad pivot. 347 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: But you know, look, if they if they, if they've 348 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: paid me more, they'd get more good AD pivots, but 349 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: they don't fear getting the media. 350 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 6: Once you gotta work your wage. 351 00:20:51,840 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, and we're back. Yeah. 352 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: So you know, the organizing students have come together pretty quickly. 353 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: I guess, do you want to talk about how you 354 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: ended up being an AWW shop? 355 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to talk on that a 356 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 6: little bit. You know, when we got to the point 357 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 6: where were deciding who we wanted to affiliate with, I 358 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 6: sent out feelers to just a bunch of different unions. 359 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 6: Two got back to me. A larger trade union that 360 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 6: I'm totally spacing on the name of, or commercial union, 361 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 6: the term for like the really big one, the really 362 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 6: big types of unions, and the IWW, and I had 363 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 6: meetings or phone calls with representatives from both of them. 364 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 6: The you and I put together kind of a graphic 365 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 6: sort of comparing like the pros and cons of two 366 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,959 Speaker 6: very different options, right, like a big international union or 367 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 6: I mean IWW obviously international, it's right in there in 368 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 6: the name, but obviously a smaller, much more autonomous union. 369 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 6: And I wanted to go IWW. I did my absolute 370 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 6: best to not let that bias inform the pros and 371 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 6: cons lists and whatnot, and we, you know, we sat 372 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 6: around in this room here and just chatted it out, 373 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 6: talked about our preferences, what mattered to all of us, 374 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 6: and you know, what we decided was that, amongst other things, 375 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 6: one of like the really big sort of organizing principles 376 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 6: of this has been increasing our own agency and autonomy 377 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 6: in the workplace, and the IWW's model just felt like 378 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 6: it would give us the most control over our own campaign. 379 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 6: And so that's that's how we ended up voting to 380 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 6: I'm an IWW, you know, lead then campaign and now 381 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 6: finally shop branch. 382 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 3: I think that the IWW really fit how our store 383 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 3: and our organizing had worked thus far too. It felt 384 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 3: like it matched the character of our organizing. It's definitely 385 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 3: much scrappier it, you know. The IWW having a history 386 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 3: in Chicago definitely was a factor in my personal desire 387 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 3: to be affiliated with them. I thought it was really 388 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 3: cool to be joining that like long tradition of IWW 389 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 3: shops in Chicago. I think that direct the emphasis on 390 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 3: direct employee action versus like contract bargaining fit very well 391 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 3: for us as well. I think, especially considering things like 392 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 3: the turnover and how we wanted to make sure that 393 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 3: you know, if we argue to contract, if we bargained 394 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 3: for a contract now, that it would be difficult to know, 395 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 3: you know, even a year or two down the line, 396 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 3: if those points and those things that we've bargained for 397 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 3: would be what folks would want then. And so getting 398 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 3: to use more direct action and response to make gains 399 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 3: in the workplace has been I think really helpful strategy 400 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 3: and one that the IWW facilitates really well with how 401 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 3: it trains organizing. 402 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense, and I 403 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: guess you know, the question from there is how did 404 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: management sort of react and what's been the kind of 405 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: what's what's what's what's been the kind of relationship vibe 406 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: since then. 407 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 5: I mean management voluntarily recognized us immediately, but they also 408 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 5: had very clear notice ahead of time that we had 409 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 5: been organizing, Like we had been presenting them with demands 410 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 5: on a regular basis. We had been emailing them from 411 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 5: an anonymous account requesting that they closed the stores when 412 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 5: the cold was too intense for most of us to 413 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 5: safely get to work, Like they would be very very 414 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 5: deeply buried under the rocks if they didn't know that 415 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 5: we were like talking to each other. So I think 416 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 5: that they had a plan, and they also know the 417 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 5: character of our community, which is very theoretically leftist, and 418 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 5: so they knew that they really didn't have another option 419 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 5: because like we were at critical mass, and they would 420 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 5: look really bad in the eyes of everyone that they 421 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 5: respect if they said nothing. 422 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 6: By the time that we announced to management that we'd unionized, 423 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 6: something like twenty one twenty two out of twenty three 424 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 6: hourly workers were members of the IWW. 425 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 2: We showed up in T shirts. It was a lot. 426 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, when you walk in, when you walk in in 427 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 3: your IWW shirt to sit down at like an all 428 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 3: store meeting, and then the next person walks in and 429 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 3: they're also wearing that shirt, and then the next person 430 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, we've got the numbers. Something's about to happen. 431 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 4: And they knew. 432 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 3: They knew because we had heard them I think, like 433 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 3: not two days before being like, yeah, we think that 434 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 3: they're on the precipice of unionizing. 435 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 5: If we were like, boy, you have no idea. 436 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, they took it as well as we expected them 437 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 3: to take it. As Finn said. 438 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 6: We'd been in a you know, organized meeting the night 439 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 6: before and had been in our group chet you know, 440 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 6: that morning, preparing for all manner of different scenarios. If 441 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 6: they didn't take it well and then and then. 442 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: They did, how have they been acting after, Because there's 443 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: there's definitely it can be a huge gap vaultry recognition 444 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: and then them actually doing anything. 445 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. 446 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 3: So the structure of management is real interesting at our store, 447 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 3: Like I said, we had we have twenty three currently 448 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 3: hourly booksellers, and then that to how many managers. 449 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 2: Six at least eight eight. 450 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 3: Yes, this is a fun quirk about our store. The 451 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 3: manager to bookseller ratio is insane. And then we've got 452 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 3: like our directors who are not counted in the manager number, 453 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 3: which is okay. 454 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 5: So we've got five managers and three directors. 455 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 3: Five managers and three directors for twenty three hourly employees. 456 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 5: And I think that, yeah, yeah, and to use that 457 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 5: ratio in meetings, they. 458 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 3: Talked about that a lot. 459 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that. 460 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 3: No, no, no, we talk about it a lot like 461 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 3: as and I think that, well, it's interesting because in 462 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 3: these store meetings it is usually only the director that talks. 463 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 3: I don't think we've ever heard managers talk in an 464 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 3: all store meeting. So when the director voluntarily or recognizes 465 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 3: our union, we also have to really look at the 466 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 3: faces of every manager to see what they're actually feeling. 467 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 3: And I think a lot of managers are. 468 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: Have. 469 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 3: My suspicion is that a lot of managers share equal 470 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 3: frustration with a lot of the ways that the store 471 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 3: is managed, even above them, And I think, obviously they 472 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 3: can't say anything to us about how they feel about our. 473 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 5: Union, but anecdote totally, they were so excited to take 474 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 5: our picture after we announced that we had utilized. 475 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 4: That's really funny. 476 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 3: We did get management to take our photo, which. 477 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 5: We hadn't joked about in the group chat in the morning, Like, Lol, 478 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 5: wouldn't it be hilarious if we made the managers take 479 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 5: our picture and then they shor did. 480 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 4: That's so funny. 481 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, On a day to day level, I think things 482 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 3: have been generally no more or less awkward than usual. 483 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 3: The vibe can be, yeah, bizarre on them. 484 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 5: The vibe is also very highly colored right now by 485 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 5: a lot of other big changes that are happening at 486 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 5: the stores that have nothing to do with our union, 487 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 5: and so like, it's very difficult to sort of suss 488 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 5: out which weirdness is which, But definitely I think the 489 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 5: union weirdness is on the lesser end. 490 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, I. 491 00:29:54,600 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 6: Mean, I think the only real indication we have in 492 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 6: the last in this kind of just little stretch since 493 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 6: we announced is that we've been emailing with our director 494 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,479 Speaker 6: for like to schedule a announcement from the store side, 495 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 6: and you know, we sent basically copy that we would 496 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 6: like them to use and listed out what venues we 497 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 6: would like it posted, and they've been just very accommodating 498 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 6: to all of that. We haven't been getting any pushback 499 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 6: like how the store how or when the store announces 500 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 6: to the you know, mailing list and the community social 501 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 6: media following and so on, so you know there's that. 502 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it hasn't really been talked about that publicly yet, 503 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 3: it's about to be. I do know that when at 504 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 3: the at the event that I was running or working 505 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 3: at yesterday, the unionization, we we got congratulated on our 506 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 3: unionization and one of my managers was just that was 507 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 3: too my manager's face, and I think her reaction was like, oh, 508 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 3: so you know they're taking it. They'd being very polite 509 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 3: about it. I don't think they know that other people 510 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 3: know yet, but yeah, if they, if they when it happens, 511 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 3: I'm sure they're not going to be weird about it, 512 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 3: at least I hope not. 513 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 5: I think the main thing management wants to do everything 514 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 5: in writing, and I think that's correct in some ways, 515 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 5: and like that's about to happen, But in terms of 516 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 5: how they will interact with us once it is fully 517 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 5: public and fully announced and fully in writing, I'm not sure. 518 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 3: I also think that the reactions that we're getting now 519 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 3: are the ways that they interact with us now that 520 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 3: we have announced, versus the ways that they may interact 521 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 3: with us once we start really pushing for our demands. 522 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 3: That is that that could change pretty quickly, especially when 523 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 3: it comes to the living wage demand that is bury 524 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 3: at the forefront of what we're fighting for. That's also 525 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 3: been the one that has like the most tension behind 526 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 3: it when we've brought it up in the past. And 527 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 3: I think that once they realized that we're not just 528 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 3: unionizing for fun, things might change pretty quickly. And so 529 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 3: we're just going to have to be on We'll be 530 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 3: on our. 531 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 5: Toes because a big reason that we unionized was because 532 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 5: we needed to have more weight behind that demand, because 533 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 5: that was one of the core demands that has been 534 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 5: made for the longest amount of time, with the least 535 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 5: amount of movement and the most empty promises, and so 536 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 5: we wanted to prove to them, hey, you have to 537 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 5: listen to us about this. And I think that they 538 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 5: might not have fully cottoned on to that yet. 539 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess I guess we'll just sort of 540 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: have to see how how they react to the sort 541 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: of hammer coming down on them now that day spent 542 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: all this time not actually doing anything. Yeah, I think 543 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: I think that's a pretty good place to wrap up. 544 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: Is there anyth unless there's anything else that you want 545 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: to make sure that gets mentioned Yeah. 546 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 6: I mean, I think one thing I would like to 547 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 6: say towards the end here is that a big part 548 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 6: of what's been motivating us through all of this is 549 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 6: seeing the sort of rise of labor power nationally with 550 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 6: you know, the strikes in LA with like the writers, 551 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 6: the actors strikes, seeing you know, teacher strikes going on 552 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 6: with you know, the union stories that you all have 553 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 6: been covering on this podcast, with folks like Frida Egg 554 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 6: and I just yeah, I just want to say, like if, 555 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 6: if for other folks who are working in a small space, 556 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 6: in a in a retail space and thinking about unionizing, 557 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 6: I mean, it's hard work, but it's deeply rewarding work, 558 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 6: and if you put the time and dedication into it, 559 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 6: it is absolutely possible to organize your workplace, especially if 560 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 6: you're somewhere with twenty thirty co workers where you can 561 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 6: get everyone into a group chat, where you can get 562 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 6: everyone together in you know, someone's basement, someone's living room. 563 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 6: You know, we're really at an incredible moment in labor 564 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 6: as a movement, and just if you're thinking about organizing 565 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 6: your workplace, start talking to your coworkers, start talking to 566 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 6: your friends. It's doable. It's hard, but there's power in 567 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 6: a union and we can win. 568 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 5: Hell yeah, I think there was something to be said too, 569 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 5: just for the like sheer morale boost that it comes 570 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 5: from organizing with your coworkers, because it makes everything better 571 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 5: even as like your material reality doesn't change immediately, your 572 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 5: outlook and ability to manage it, and to just feel 573 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,240 Speaker 5: like someone is in the same boat as you unparalleled 574 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 5: really worth it. 575 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 3: It feels yeah, it feels good. It feels good to 576 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 3: have something to be proud of, something that you've put 577 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 3: a lot of time into, like coming to Fruition and 578 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 3: seeing all of these people that you've worked together with 579 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 3: to help make like tangible gains for your community. It 580 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 3: feels like I think that when you have a job, 581 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,879 Speaker 3: that is, when you're working a job that sometimes makes 582 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 3: it difficult to feel proud of yourself and what you're 583 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 3: doing on a day to day basis for whatever reason, 584 00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 3: having organizing and having your coworker there to make something 585 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 3: really really good, not just for each other, but for 586 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 3: future workers and for workers at other stores who may 587 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 3: see our efforts and go I can do that too. 588 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 3: That makes you. That makes me proud, and it feels 589 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 3: really good to have something to be proud of. 590 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, getting getting to fight for your class is a 591 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: great feelings. It rules. Yeah, so I guess where where 592 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: can people find the union if they want to help 593 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: support stuff? 594 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 5: Got it? 595 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 2: Pull up our newly minted social media. 596 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 4: That's nice. 597 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 6: I had this ready to go earlier today and then 598 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 6: I forgot to keep it open. 599 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: No worries, We'll put the links in the description. 600 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 2: These are some fresh, fresh handles. 601 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 6: Here we go. Yeah, so, folks can find us on 602 00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 6: Instagram at sem co Op Booksellers Union, semco Pee Booksellers Union, 603 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,919 Speaker 6: or on Twitter at sem co Op Union. Hopefully we will, 604 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 6: you know, start posting on soon and that's gonna be 605 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 6: the best way to sort of keep up with our store, 606 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 6: our situation from specifically the perspective of the laborers. 607 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 3: Also, if you're in Chicago, come and say hi, Come 608 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 3: to our stores, Come talk to uh our like, come 609 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 3: talk to the workers. We have a lot to say. 610 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 3: We'd love to talk to you about it. 611 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a great place and it's gotten significantly 612 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: better now that this now now that it's unionized, and 613 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: hopefully one day, I don't know, fuck it, don't all 614 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: I'll say this hope hopefully one day it is a 615 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: fucking actual co op. 616 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 6: Hell yeah, that's the dream, that's all we want. 617 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, so thank you all for coming on and good 618 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: luck and yeah hope hope management folds like a fucking 619 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: wet paper towel. 620 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 6: Hell yeah, thanks so much for having. 621 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 3: Us you so much, this was amazing. 622 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, excited to have talked to you all, and yeah, 623 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: this is this been can happen here? You can do 624 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: this too, and yeah, well we'll have we'll have exciting 625 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: stuff coming tomorrow too. 626 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 4: Yeah. 627 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 1: Go go organize your workplace and make your bosses viserable 628 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: and make your lives better. 629 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 7: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 630 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 7: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 631 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 7: cool zonemedia dot com, check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 632 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 7: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 633 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 7: find sources for It could Happen here, updated monthly at 634 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 7: cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening