Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're dumping
Speaker 1: out our trick or treating bag, separating candy by our
Speaker 1: faves and which ones we're willing to trade anybody wants
Speaker 1: some whoppers. On today's show, we're talking to Angel City
Speaker 1: defender Merrett Matthias about her decision to retire the NWSL's
Speaker 1: evolution from game one to today, needing time to see
Speaker 1: the worthiness of her career and accomplishments and the.
Speaker 2: Legacy that she's leaving behind.
Speaker 1: Plus PWHL expansion and poorly timed awards.
Speaker 2: It's all coming up right after this.
Speaker 1: Welcome back, slices and Happy Halloween. Here's what you need
Speaker 1: to know today. Let's start with some news that I
Speaker 1: got to hear first during a panel I hosted at
Speaker 1: the espnW summit on Tuesday. Professional Women's Hockey League Senior
Speaker 1: VP of Business ops Amy Sheer announced that the league
Speaker 1: is planning to expand from six teams to eight, potentially
Speaker 1: as soon as next season. The league plans to issue
Speaker 1: a request for proposals from interested markets, and y'all know,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping Chicago is in the mix, and if we
Speaker 1: get a team, I'm immediately stealing Kendall quinnscofield for my squad.
Speaker 1: In balloon Dior News, Spain's Ititana bon Maddi won her
Speaker 1: second straight Ballon d'Or feminine, the award given annually to
Speaker 1: the best player in the world. Bone Madi, a midfielder
Speaker 1: who plays for Barcelona, helped her club win the Liga
Speaker 1: F Women's Champion League, Copa de la Rena and Spanish
Speaker 1: super Copa last year, the first time the club has.
Speaker 2: Won all four trophies in the same season.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, US women's national team boss Emma Hayes won the
Speaker 1: inaugural Ballon d'Or Coach of the Year award after leading
Speaker 1: the US to Olympic gold, and then she went on
Speaker 1: to call out event organizers for always holding the prestigious
Speaker 1: award ceremony in the middle of a women's FIFA window. Hayes,
Speaker 1: along with most of the nominated players, wasn't able to
Speaker 1: attend the event in Paris as she was in the
Speaker 1: middle of a US women's national team camp.
Speaker 2: Take a listen, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, it'd be like running an oscars, wouldn't it
Speaker 3: without a Golden Globe, without having any females present. It
Speaker 3: just wouldn't happen. I think that all too often it's
Speaker 3: an afterthought to be honest with you, and I know
Speaker 3: that there's nothing you know I can do to control that.
Speaker 3: If I'm honest with you, I'm happy to be with
Speaker 3: my team. I'm not really one for the glam so
Speaker 3: I love Paris, but I'm happy to be with my team.
Speaker 3: But I think for those players and coaches and is
Speaker 3: the one industry moment they get recognized. And it's disappointing,
Speaker 3: but one that I did speak to. I did speak
Speaker 3: to the organize about it, and they said that that
Speaker 3: is something that will be changing in the future, and
Speaker 3: let's hope that that is the case.
Speaker 1: The US woman's national team and MA has closed out
Speaker 1: the international window against Argentina last day in Louisville.
Speaker 2: Will have more on that game tomorrow.
Speaker 1: More soccer news, Angel City announced that the club has
Speaker 1: signed veteran forward Sidney LaRue to a new three year
Speaker 1: contract through the twenty twenty seventh season. LaRue, who has
Speaker 1: played in the league since it started in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: has been with Angel City since twenty twenty two, when
Speaker 1: she was traded from Orlando midway through the season. Y'all
Speaker 1: have to see the announcement that Angel City sent out
Speaker 1: for this extension.
Speaker 2: This is the cutest.
Speaker 1: Contract extension photo you'll ever see. It's Sid's two kids,
Speaker 1: Cassius and Rue, wearing Angel City jerseys with the numbers
Speaker 1: twenty and twenty seven, the year through which Sid is
Speaker 1: now signed. We'll post a link to that pick in
Speaker 1: our show notes.
Speaker 2: We got to take a quick break when we come back.
Speaker 1: Don't miss this an honest, raw and sometimes tearful conversation
Speaker 1: with retiring NWSL legend Meary at Matthias.
Speaker 2: Joining us.
Speaker 1: She's a right back for Angel CITYFC of the NWSL,
Speaker 1: and has won three NWSL shields and three NWSL championships
Speaker 1: during her twelve seasons in the league. One championship with
Speaker 1: FC Kansas City, one shield with the Seattle Rain and
Speaker 1: two doubles with the North Carolina Current. She heared a
Speaker 1: cap with the US when it's national team in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: She played college soccer at UNC and Texas and M
Speaker 1: And she's not dating Sydney LaRue, no matter how many
Speaker 1: times the Internet wants it to be.
Speaker 2: So it's Merret, Matthia's what's up? Merrit? What's up? Everyone.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Thanks for doing this. We're
Speaker 2: reunited where we first hung out. I know. Anniversary. Wow,
Speaker 2: it is our anniversary.
Speaker 1: I've seen you less than I would hope if this
Speaker 1: is the one year occasion.
Speaker 4: Of our data, I know, but I feel like the
Speaker 4: retirement is just going to open up so much time.
Speaker 2: I have so much more time to get.
Speaker 1: This conversation will need to be more professional than any
Speaker 1: conversation we had here last year.
Speaker 2: Perfect. I think I'm ready for it, and the bar
Speaker 2: is low mart.
Speaker 1: We literally could talk about almost anything anxietly qualifying. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you announced that you're retiring at the end of
Speaker 1: this season with, in my opinion, the perfect caption I came,
Speaker 1: I saw I ship up.
Speaker 2: Perfect.
Speaker 1: Angel City has been eliminated from the postseason, which means
Speaker 1: we are having this conversation as you are preparing for
Speaker 1: your last professional soccer game.
Speaker 2: What are the emotions. I feel very at peace.
Speaker 4: I am also currently just not able to play soccer.
Speaker 4: I sprained my mcl acl about a few weeks ago,
Speaker 4: and my body is taking longer than I would.
Speaker 2: Like for it too to recover.
Speaker 4: So the end of my season, the end of my career,
Speaker 4: looks much different than I anticipated. There was a moment
Speaker 4: where I had been coming back and we were in
Speaker 4: the back season of our or back half of our season,
Speaker 4: and I was like four appearances away from like hitting
Speaker 4: two hundred, and I was like, all I have.
Speaker 2: To do is make it into like four games.
Speaker 4: Make appearances. I'm going to wrap a bow around this career.
Speaker 4: It's going to be great.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, we go to Louisville.
Speaker 4: I go to block a shot and has changed in
Speaker 4: a matter of an instant, and I immediately knew.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this isn't good.
Speaker 4: And so I pushed to try to get back and
Speaker 4: my body just wasn't having it.
Speaker 2: My knee couldn't hit a ball in the same way.
Speaker 4: And so there were a few days that were really
Speaker 4: really tough, and just having to accept that I don't
Speaker 4: have control over this thing that I very much thought
Speaker 4: that it was going to end a certain way. I
Speaker 4: think within that time, allowing myself to kind of accept that,
Speaker 4: be at peace with that, and kind of be able
Speaker 4: to acknowledge that not ending my career the way that
Speaker 4: I want to take doesn't take away anything from what
Speaker 4: I've done. And so with that and a lot of
Speaker 4: love and support from friends and family. I decided to
Speaker 4: lean into like being celebrated and really lean into what
Speaker 4: our last.
Speaker 2: Home game looked like.
Speaker 4: And it was just an incredible, incredible moment for me,
Speaker 4: and I think that was it allowed me to put
Speaker 4: a bow around a really successful career and one that I'm.
Speaker 2: Really proud of. I want to talk about the retirement ceremony.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the physical aspect and the
Speaker 1: battle you had just to play this season. But I
Speaker 1: guess what I mean by your final professional game is
Speaker 1: that it's so much more than just playing soccer. It's
Speaker 1: being in the locker room with your teammates, it's being
Speaker 1: on the sidelines, it's being in uniform or in street
Speaker 1: closer or whatever it is, but being with your teammates
Speaker 1: in a way that you can always come back and
Speaker 1: after retirement you could be a part of things. But
Speaker 1: is there any part of you that that last moment
Speaker 1: of like looking around at the fans or the pre
Speaker 1: and post game stuff, even as an injured player, is
Speaker 1: there any part of it you're going to pay special
Speaker 1: attention to.
Speaker 2: In that moment and like really try to take in.
Speaker 4: I feel for me, the last game it was really
Speaker 4: much like looking around and being like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: Like I feel so privileged to have played on the
Speaker 4: teams that I've played on and to be surrounded by
Speaker 4: the women that I've been surrounded by. I would argue
Speaker 4: that I've been a part of some of the best
Speaker 4: teams in the NWSL, not just on the field but
Speaker 4: outside of that, and they have, you know, those big
Speaker 4: and small moments have like shaped who I am so much.
Speaker 4: And you love a locker room and like a good
Speaker 4: locker room because it's like what you're drawn to is
Speaker 4: that allows you to be exactly who you are and
Speaker 4: be loved for it.
Speaker 2: And I think along my way and along my journey.
Speaker 4: The more that I've been comfortable with fully being who
Speaker 4: I am, I hope that I've allowed other people to
Speaker 4: believe that they can do the same. So yeah, that
Speaker 4: you hear everyone say, like, you just miss the locker room.
Speaker 4: There's nothing that replicates that ever again, And so in
Speaker 4: that like the last game, you look around and I.
Speaker 2: Think that's why it was so touching for the team
Speaker 2: to have dressed.
Speaker 4: Like me walking in and to have had these like
Speaker 4: really special moments where I'm like, I think I was
Speaker 4: in all of just like what I have meant to
Speaker 4: people and when I have meant to people on my
Speaker 4: team and for them to take the time to like
Speaker 4: dedicate something to me was really really special. So yeah,
Speaker 4: that will be missed. I think you also, it's really funny.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I love being around like our younger players,
Speaker 4: like the Ilissa's and the Kennedy's and the G's, And
Speaker 4: you're like, wow, you keep me young. You know, like
Speaker 4: there is a part of it that you feel, like
Speaker 4: Peter Pan like you don't grow up in this. And
Speaker 4: I like, I was actually with Sue and p not
Speaker 4: too long ago and I said something.
Speaker 2: They're like, what does that mean? I was like, what
Speaker 2: do you mean? You don't know what that means? And
Speaker 2: like a retired they kept young, They're not being kept young.
Speaker 2: And so I'm like, oh my god. I had a
Speaker 2: moment of like, am I going to get old? Like that?
Speaker 2: Those little things are.
Speaker 4: Those little things You're like, oh my gosh, this is
Speaker 4: such a massive part of my life. Not to say
Speaker 4: that I don't have community outside of soccer that I'm sure.
Speaker 2: I will lean heavily on. And I think actually now
Speaker 2: it is better.
Speaker 1: There is a lot more ability for female athletes to
Speaker 1: get together after their careers because it is a bigger
Speaker 1: deal to go to games, to go to championships. There's
Speaker 1: more events, there's more parties, there's more reasons to get together.
Speaker 1: I really feel for athletes of earlier times that that
Speaker 1: was it, like, you're probably not they're going to spread
Speaker 1: out across the country. There's not broadcasting opportunities, there's not
Speaker 1: managing and coaching opportunities, none of that stuff.
Speaker 2: So you will, you will get to be around them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just that picture has changed a bit, which
Speaker 4: is a wonderful thing.
Speaker 2: It's always great to bring.
Speaker 4: I think the first year that the league really invested
Speaker 4: in like a championship weekend that really like kind of
Speaker 4: set the tone was DC and I remember being in
Speaker 4: this party and it's like, what the what is this
Speaker 4: going to be? Like?
Speaker 2: Is it gonna be fun?
Speaker 4: You kind of had like anything the league does, it's
Speaker 4: kind of like not a.
Speaker 2: Torny, it's you know these things that you're like, eh,
Speaker 2: And it was one of the best nights.
Speaker 4: I think, I will like woke come the next day,
Speaker 4: I'm like I'm so hungover, Like I had no intention
Speaker 4: of that being the case.
Speaker 2: And within that.
Speaker 4: Moment, there were like so many players from around the
Speaker 4: league that had come in, and whether you know someone
Speaker 4: closely or not, you just have a general respect if
Speaker 4: you've played in this league for any length of time,
Speaker 4: and you're just like you connect on that level. So
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you're like, even though I don't
Speaker 4: know you, I feel like I know you, and I
Speaker 4: know of you enough from like people in between that
Speaker 4: it just is a really incredible community of women.
Speaker 2: And so that's been really fun.
Speaker 4: It's been really fun to see like that kind of
Speaker 4: takeoff in our league where to your point, you have
Speaker 4: moments an opportunity to like get that thing that you
Speaker 4: love so much, which is the camaraderie of women's sport.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that a lot of your teammate showed up
Speaker 1: wearing fits inspired by you for that last ACFC home game.
Speaker 2: A lot of tears, a lot of laughs.
Speaker 1: You are one of the most stylish players in sport.
Speaker 1: That is a very notable thing about you. Who nailed
Speaker 1: their version of merit best. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: I will start off by saying, I think everyone did
Speaker 4: like such an incredible job. I was actually blown away.
Speaker 4: I think I loved like Alyssa's take and Gee's take
Speaker 4: just because it was like, we're like straight up replicating it.
Speaker 4: I loved Kjo's like she did her thing in a
Speaker 4: me inspired way. So honestly, I can't really choose, Like
Speaker 4: everyone did. They saw an incredible job, they did such
Speaker 4: an incredible job.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: The tunnel fits, the desire to get to know players
Speaker 1: off the field, to get to know people's personalities. It's
Speaker 1: all part of this growing fan and media attention for
Speaker 1: the league in a way that didn't exist before. And
Speaker 1: you're really uniquely positioned to talk about how different it
Speaker 1: feels now from day one because you were literally there
Speaker 1: day one, the very first NWSL match with FC Kansas
Speaker 1: City in April of twenty thirteen. So how do you
Speaker 1: put in perspective how much things have changed in the
Speaker 1: twelve years of the NWSL.
Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you no one had enough money
Speaker 2: to buy an sick outfit. I no Commas in that
Speaker 2: first page.
Speaker 4: Oh Commas did not have a comma in that first paycheck,
Speaker 4: which I think we talked about. Yeah, I remember getting
Speaker 4: my first paycheck and it missed.
Speaker 2: It missed a comma and it was devastating.
Speaker 4: And also at that time, I didn't care, you know,
Speaker 4: and that's a bit of a privilege. I had parents
Speaker 4: that could help support me, and I can recognize that.
Speaker 2: But I think.
Speaker 4: There was a part of it that it was like
Speaker 4: the league had folded. There was for a while no
Speaker 4: hope that anything was coming back, and it came back
Speaker 4: quite quickly, and so you're in it and you're like,
Speaker 4: I'm a professional athlete, Like at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: this is the thing that I've wanted to do since
Speaker 4: it became an opportunity to do it. That for me
Speaker 4: at twenty I believe I was like, twenty three years
Speaker 4: old was enough. Yeah, And what that looked like in
Speaker 4: Kansas City, I mean it was beautiful and hard and
Speaker 4: all the things that define you and start to shape
Speaker 4: you into what you are going to look like throughout
Speaker 4: your career.
Speaker 2: And I believe that team really did that. It exposed me.
Speaker 4: It exposed me to like professional sport and like an
Speaker 4: actually very safe way. The people, the women that were
Speaker 4: on that team were incredible and took me under their
Speaker 4: wing and allowed me to grow and understand this game.
Speaker 4: But yeah, from that moment to where we are now,
Speaker 4: I think that there has been a significant jump, and
Speaker 4: within that, there's a lot.
Speaker 2: That is lagging. And so while we have.
Speaker 4: Markets that look like Angel City, we don't have enough
Speaker 4: markets that look like Angel City. And while women are
Speaker 4: getting paid significantly more than they were twelve years ago,
Speaker 4: it's certainly.
Speaker 2: Not enough to.
Speaker 4: Live in the way that a professional athlete should be living,
Speaker 4: and so there is growth needed. There is definitely like
Speaker 4: we have not we are not done. I think that
Speaker 4: there is a great need for women that have played
Speaker 4: in this league for a long time to get back
Speaker 4: into roles that are making decisions and creating change and
Speaker 4: setting the direction for what this league will look like,
Speaker 4: and one there hasn't been opportunity there for a long time.
Speaker 4: I think that is one of the things where I
Speaker 4: look back and reflect on my career where people used
Speaker 4: to ask me way too young, like what I would
Speaker 4: be doing next? And when I be done playing soccer?
Speaker 4: I'm like, you would never ask this of a male
Speaker 4: professional athlete, but okay, But I think for a long
Speaker 4: time I was like, I'm going to continue to keep playing,
Speaker 4: so the only path after this is coaching. And while
Speaker 4: I have a lot of respect for anyone who enters
Speaker 4: that realm, it just never felt right for me.
Speaker 2: It's not what I felt passionate about.
Speaker 4: It's not what I felt was going to scratch the
Speaker 4: itch that I of something a bit more. And so
Speaker 4: as the league's grown, is opportunities grown, that path has
Speaker 4: changed and it becomes there's a lot of different pathways.
Speaker 4: While there's coaching, there is access to being a GM,
Speaker 4: there is the ability to work in the front office,
Speaker 4: there is like ownership opportunity, all these things that like
Speaker 4: twelve years ago didn't exist, And that is so powerful
Speaker 4: and it's also so necessary for the women of this
Speaker 4: league to feel in power.
Speaker 2: To step into those roles in positions.
Speaker 4: Because I think there is something to be said that
Speaker 4: you become an expert in something when you've done it
Speaker 4: for such a long period of time. And I think
Speaker 4: that there are people that are in positions and roles
Speaker 4: that don't have this experience. They don't know what it's like,
Speaker 4: and decisions are made based on something that they.
Speaker 2: Don't know about.
Speaker 4: Yeah, or let that trickles down and what that effect
Speaker 4: looks like on players.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it harms them or not harms but it can't
Speaker 2: purs that it can sometimes, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: In September, ESPN release the result of an anonymous survey
Speaker 1: with all fourteen nwslgms. Among the things that they talked
Speaker 1: about was player safety and protections, and multiple gms said
Speaker 1: that they thought efforts to protect players have quote gone
Speaker 1: too far that it spreads fear and confusion among staff.
Speaker 2: What is your response to that as someone.
Speaker 1: Who's been in the league since the beginning when there
Speaker 1: was basically zero care for the players and the environments
Speaker 1: in which they played, and also as someone who played
Speaker 1: for with Paul Riley who's been banned for life from
Speaker 1: the league due to abusive behavior and sexual coersion. When
Speaker 1: you hear GMS people in leadership positions saying they've gone
Speaker 1: too far in player protections and safety, I think it's.
Speaker 2: Hard to hear. I think there was a time, as
Speaker 2: you mentioned, that there was.
Speaker 4: No guardrails around the league, there was no protection for players.
Speaker 4: There was rights could be held. They have no decision
Speaker 4: making power, and that is harmful. It created the environment
Speaker 4: that it created, and it harbored a sexual predator, and
Speaker 4: that once you make that mistake, you really can't make
Speaker 4: it again. And so yeah, you have to implement things
Speaker 4: to protect players.
Speaker 2: What does this look like?
Speaker 4: How do we move forward, and how do we move
Speaker 4: forward in a way that is really finding a balance
Speaker 4: between what it means to be a professional athlete and
Speaker 4: what it means to be harmed within your profession. And
Speaker 4: I believe that there is going to have to be
Speaker 4: a learning point of the pendulum that's had to swing
Speaker 4: the other way, and so it is finding that balance
Speaker 4: and that the ideas that come with like how do
Speaker 4: you create safe space, what does it look like to motivate?
Speaker 4: How do you encourage players? How do you hold players accountable?
Speaker 4: No woman I believe in this league doesn't want to
Speaker 4: get better or doesn't want to perform at a high level.
Speaker 4: What they do not want is to be dragged in
Speaker 4: a way that is harmful and not supportive and abusive.
Speaker 4: And I think that there is a blueprint where it's
Speaker 4: like this is what worked, this is what we.
Speaker 2: Know it works.
Speaker 4: And now that that blueprint has been taken away, it's
Speaker 4: like what do we do? Should we say anything? Should
Speaker 4: we not say anything? And I'm like that also causes problems.
Speaker 4: I am not saying that that is like to do
Speaker 4: nothing and to not hold accountability and to not push
Speaker 4: a standard is what you should do within your environments.
Speaker 4: But there's certainly a balance between having no protection, right
Speaker 4: and having protection at some point.
Speaker 1: It's like if you're airing on the side of the
Speaker 1: players for a while because you so gravely picked up before,
Speaker 1: then that's okay, and it's not that you want people
Speaker 1: walking on eggshells. And actually, as someone who is more
Speaker 1: likely to be at my age friends with people in
Speaker 1: charge of places instead of the underlings, I recognize that
Speaker 1: there's a push and pull with gen z of once
Speaker 1: you learn language like toxic and you know, you start
Speaker 1: to use it sometimes maybe even when you're just not
Speaker 1: sure that that's how jobs are, they suck sometimes, right,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of work and you don't want
Speaker 1: to be there, and sometimes people are wrestles. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a difference between that and someone who creates an environment
Speaker 1: or sustains an environment that is harmful to the health
Speaker 1: of people, and that as expectations that go beyond what's
Speaker 1: professional or otherwise. Finding that balance is hard anywhere. It
Speaker 1: is particularly hard in sport. And to your point, our
Speaker 1: idea of what we thought was like quote unquote, a
Speaker 1: good coach used to be pretty much dude.
Speaker 2: Who yells a lot. Yeah, and we know that's not
Speaker 2: what gets the best out of people as a wiser,
Speaker 2: and we're so.
Speaker 1: Beholden to that that we're so I can try to
Speaker 1: hold grace for people who are struggling with a workplace
Speaker 1: that they feel like is quote unquote too sensitive.
Speaker 2: I can try to hear them out.
Speaker 1: But I also want to say that because when you're
Speaker 1: so airing on the wrong side for so long, to
Speaker 1: instantly be frustrated by centering the players for a while
Speaker 1: and seeing how that goes is a reflection of the
Speaker 1: power dynamic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think what I hear in that is like
Speaker 4: you have put people in positions of power that don't
Speaker 4: know how to build a blueprint, how to be a
Speaker 4: good lead, not that the players you've brought in are
Speaker 4: the problems or staff exactly. And so I think if
Speaker 4: women are felt that they are seen, supported and and celebrated,
Speaker 4: you will get a lot out of them. They will
Speaker 4: push and they will play for you, and they will
Speaker 4: believe in and they will buy in, and they will
Speaker 4: buy in more so in like, maybe more so than
Speaker 4: like what we believe.
Speaker 2: Is buy in on the male side.
Speaker 4: And so I think women's sport in general is in
Speaker 4: this evolution process of taking what we believe blueprints were
Speaker 4: from men's sport and copying and pasting them here.
Speaker 2: And it doesn't work. It doesn't work for so many reasons.
Speaker 4: One that the money that was being able to be
Speaker 4: made in one area, it's not being made here. The
Speaker 4: way in which people or audiences engage in it, the
Speaker 4: way which coaches coach in it, it doesn't suit women.
Speaker 4: And so you have to be willing to find and
Speaker 4: be curious about ways that you provide a safe environ
Speaker 4: that sets a standard that is rooted in excellence.
Speaker 2: And for me and the.
Speaker 4: Women that I'm around, you don't go out to practice
Speaker 4: and not want to get better. You know, there's always questions,
Speaker 4: they want to ask, they want to be held accountable.
Speaker 4: And I think if that standard is set from the
Speaker 4: beginning and it's done in a way that is like.
Speaker 2: Hey, that's not great, here's how you can get better.
Speaker 4: This is what this that conversation is, it becomes more conversational.
Speaker 2: I think in a lot.
Speaker 4: Of instances there is coaches have a very difficult time
Speaker 4: of having difficult conversation and that is what in turn
Speaker 4: creates a what you could quote unquote say is a
Speaker 4: toxic environment. Or environment that loses buying or by an
Speaker 4: environment that's petty or not supportive. And I think if
Speaker 4: you set that standard of like, because I can be
Speaker 4: consistent and what I'm asking you and consistent in what
Speaker 4: I'm asking of the team and explain why and explain
Speaker 4: why and not have a I think what I dislike
Speaker 4: the most and have traditionally felt is problematic in our league,
Speaker 4: and I can only speak on it because I haven't
Speaker 4: played elsewhere, is that there is an idea for whatever reason.
Speaker 4: One in the earlier days, it's that we had no
Speaker 4: power as players, right, so you were treated as if
Speaker 4: you were It was an extension of club soccer or
Speaker 4: college soccer, and at some point there is a very
Speaker 4: vast difference of how a professional athlete is going to
Speaker 4: be treated in the way a adolescent in college or
Speaker 4: club is going to be treated. And there is a
Speaker 4: responsibility and a duty for coaching staff and upper management
Speaker 4: to create guidelines around as you bring in younger women
Speaker 4: to play in this league. Yes there is going to
Speaker 4: be and need a different pathway for them in different conversations,
Speaker 4: but that blanket does not have to lay across the
Speaker 4: entire team.
Speaker 2: Because you now have such a wide range of players.
Speaker 4: You have a thirty four year old player and an
Speaker 4: eighteen year old player. All of those conversations and what
Speaker 4: is needed in the support and growth and all of
Speaker 4: that looks stressed.
Speaker 2: And that's what being a coach is.
Speaker 1: It's how do I get the most out of all
Speaker 1: the different people with all sharing one goal.
Speaker 4: And so you have like the need for that, and
Speaker 4: I think with in that you create systems that look
Speaker 4: a bit more on like this is a punishment and
Speaker 4: this is to help hold you accountable.
Speaker 2: We're going to have like a punishment system.
Speaker 4: I'm like, that is just not that is not going
Speaker 4: to carry the way that you want it to carry.
Speaker 4: If there is a like this environment should be created
Speaker 4: to support the player. It should be created that they
Speaker 4: are on the pedestal. Whether you like it or not,
Speaker 4: these players are on the pedestal. So when they are
Speaker 4: falling short, then it's a conversation. If there is something
Speaker 4: that they missed or did not do, it's the responsibility
Speaker 4: the staff and the people around them to support them
Speaker 4: be like, hey, you need to do this and like pick.
Speaker 2: Up those pieces.
Speaker 4: I think sometimes we tend to, especially in the women's game,
Speaker 4: leading to this way of being like, well, we're going
Speaker 4: to have like a punishment because there isn't a bit
Speaker 4: the ability to like find players and all this stuff.
Speaker 4: So this like kind of ability to be held accountable
Speaker 4: looks a bit rudimentary and it's act and it feels
Speaker 4: like a bit of a punishment system.
Speaker 2: That it's like, I'm not a child, she is not
Speaker 2: a child.
Speaker 4: This is a job, and so I think it is
Speaker 4: it's relearning what things are going to make people engage with,
Speaker 4: wanting to be the best that they can be within
Speaker 4: the environment.
Speaker 1: And just being creative and thoughtful about how it should
Speaker 1: look different with women than men, and that being cool
Speaker 1: and interesting and a challenge and fun to do as
Speaker 1: opposed to as opposed to a frustration.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's so many ways.
Speaker 1: To do things a little bit differently and improve upon
Speaker 1: the model that we've just accepted for such a long time.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that earlier that you really were working toward
Speaker 1: that two hundred regular season cap. You are one of
Speaker 1: few NWSL players to get over fourteen thousand minutes played.
Speaker 4: Could you imagine how many I would have gotten if
Speaker 4: I didn't get injured?
Speaker 2: Right right?
Speaker 1: But you were reaching for that number and obviously there's
Speaker 1: disappointment and coming up short. It is very hard in sport,
Speaker 1: especially not to assign a lot of meaning to numbers,
Speaker 1: very specific things. My final shot was a miss versus
Speaker 1: my final shot was a make. My final game was
Speaker 1: a loss versus a win or a number like two hundred.
Speaker 1: But you said you're feeling a little bit better about
Speaker 1: understanding that you will be at one ninety six one
Speaker 1: ninety six. How can you put one ninety six in
Speaker 1: its proper place, which is a huge, gigantic, impressive number,
Speaker 1: instead of it needing to be this round number of
Speaker 1: two hundred.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it is flipping that conversation on its
Speaker 4: head and not it being like these are the four
Speaker 4: appearances I didn't make, and instead leaning into like these
Speaker 4: are the one hundred and ninety six that I did,
Speaker 4: and all one hundred and ninety six had meaning, And
Speaker 4: I do not recall like one appearance that I didn't
Speaker 4: step on the field and wasn't proud of what I did.
Speaker 4: And so having that rhetoric and having that outlook on it,
Speaker 4: I think it will always have a bit of a
Speaker 4: bite to it.
Speaker 2: I'm an I grew up in this. I strive for greatness.
Speaker 4: I have been a perfectionist my entire life, a recovering perfectionist,
Speaker 4: now you know, and while you have and I have
Speaker 4: put in a lot of work into my own healing,
Speaker 4: there is a part of me that's like, it is
Speaker 4: hard to just take the competitor out of you, out
Speaker 4: of every situation.
Speaker 2: But I think I know and can recognize and can sit.
Speaker 4: In that to have done what I've done for the
Speaker 4: period of time that I did it, to the level
Speaker 4: of which I did it, that for me is greatness,
Speaker 4: and that's my definition of greatness.
Speaker 2: So I get to own that, and that is really special.
Speaker 2: I loved your interview with Meglenahan.
Speaker 1: She talked about in her pod, but she also wrote
Speaker 1: a great story that people can read in The Athletic
Speaker 1: and you guys talked about worthiness as a player, how
Speaker 1: much worthiness needs to be found outside of just the
Speaker 1: US Women's National team caps and appearances and gold medals.
Speaker 1: And you told her that you've struggled in moments, particularly
Speaker 1: in the moment of playing in the NWSL, to understand
Speaker 1: how you've played this important role in women's soccer because
Speaker 1: you haven't had those many US Women's National team caps
Speaker 1: and those things.
Speaker 2: You dreamed of when you were younger.
Speaker 1: If you're always striving for something bigger than the thing
Speaker 1: you're in in the moment, that's fine, that's ambition, right.
Speaker 1: But I do think we need to respect an NWSL
Speaker 1: career in its own right. And I think we've come
Speaker 1: far enough with this league, and we've seen players like
Speaker 1: you take this league.
Speaker 2: From no commas to what we see now. And without you,
Speaker 2: it doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: Without players of your caliber that are there for one
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety six games, we don't get to a
Speaker 1: place where people will see an NWSL career as incredible
Speaker 1: in its own right. Yeah, maybe we're not quite there
Speaker 1: yet because we still elevate the national team.
Speaker 2: Can you talk more about that process.
Speaker 1: Is there a point at any point in the last
Speaker 1: couple of years where you sort of were able to
Speaker 1: let go of that national team part and say I'm
Speaker 1: rooted in this thing I am doing and there's worth
Speaker 1: in that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, I want to thank you for all those kind words.
Speaker 4: I greatly appreciate them. I would say that that type
Speaker 4: of untethering to who I am and what I do
Speaker 4: started in like twenty nineteen and I tore my ACL
Speaker 4: and for a long time, soccer was that very like
Speaker 4: fraying thread that was wrapped around my life that like
Speaker 4: this is going well, so like everything else is okay.
Speaker 4: It was not true. I had a lot of work
Speaker 4: to do. I had some things that happened within my
Speaker 4: family that like I got to a point where I'm
Speaker 4: like I do not have the tools or the capability
Speaker 4: of like holding this, carrying it or figuring it out.
Speaker 4: And so I started therapy.
Speaker 2: I will thank my therapist till the day that I
Speaker 2: die for what she was able to help me with.
Speaker 4: And so within that it became this process of just
Speaker 4: to what I said earlier, like defining what I believe
Speaker 4: success was and was I successful if I didn't reach
Speaker 4: this thing?
Speaker 2: And I think I was.
Speaker 4: I grew up in a generation a player where like
Speaker 4: we didn't have a professional league.
Speaker 2: It was the national team or nothing.
Speaker 4: It was a World Cup where you weren't good, you know,
Speaker 4: like you were either representing the crest or like what
Speaker 4: were you doing? And that narrative stayed really strong, and
Speaker 4: because I sat like so close to that for so
Speaker 4: much of my life and believed that like that was
Speaker 4: going to happen, and when it didn't, and when everything
Speaker 4: kind of like flipped on its head and my injury
Speaker 4: was like very ill timed, it kept me out of camps.
Speaker 2: It kind of COVID happens, and.
Speaker 4: I am set with this like whole new landscape of
Speaker 4: what the fuck am I going to do now? And
Speaker 4: like what if I don't not necessarily don't come back,
Speaker 4: but what if I never gained that momentum again.
Speaker 2: And in a lot of ways I didn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't gain the momentum to get back into camp
Speaker 4: and to represent this country in the way that I
Speaker 4: wanted to. And within that time it was the thing
Speaker 4: that I'm like I had to reflect back on all
Speaker 4: the things that I'd done in the success that I had,
Speaker 4: and I think also just recognizing, like the players in
Speaker 4: which I have played with and that I have spent
Speaker 4: time starting and playing significant minutes with, you don't do
Speaker 4: that unless you are.
Speaker 2: Great at what you do, Yeah, And.
Speaker 4: So recognizing that whether someone was going to choose me
Speaker 4: or not, it was out of my control.
Speaker 2: But I knew when I stepped on the field.
Speaker 4: Or the environment that I that I was going to
Speaker 4: inherently change it and make it better. And I think
Speaker 4: I've been one of those players that on the field,
Speaker 4: I will always give myself credit. But I think when
Speaker 4: I leave like organizations, like my absence is felt.
Speaker 2: Yes, the way people talk about you makes that very clear.
Speaker 4: And like that matters, And so I believe in this,
Speaker 4: in like the process of coming to terms with my
Speaker 4: retirement and the ability for me to allow myself to
Speaker 4: be celebrated, to be seen and to have those moments
Speaker 4: of like what if you announce this and no one
Speaker 4: cares because you kind of always have as much as
Speaker 4: you can work through. Like I mean, the self critic
Speaker 4: that used to be in my head was constant and
Speaker 4: like the chat never shut the fuck up, And now
Speaker 4: it has its moments and I'm able to like settle
Speaker 4: it and turn towards it and be like I understand
Speaker 4: but like probably not going to be what we experience,
Speaker 4: and yeah, to give myself that opportunity. It has been
Speaker 4: really hard to even comprehend the amount of love and
Speaker 4: admiration I've received of the past like months or like
Speaker 4: weeks of like my.
Speaker 2: Retirement, and to sit and stand in that and be
Speaker 2: open to that.
Speaker 4: I don't believe with out being able to define what
Speaker 4: success was for me, I would be able to sit
Speaker 4: here today and hold it right.
Speaker 1: There'd be bitterness there instead of the joy that you
Speaker 1: feel in the way people are talking about you and what.
Speaker 2: You did for them. I mean, it's not just your
Speaker 2: soccer playing.
Speaker 1: It's your personality, it's your sense of humor, it's all
Speaker 1: those things you bring, and then it's the work you
Speaker 1: put in for yourself and for other players. You were
Speaker 1: on the bargaining committee for the first NWSLCBA. Friend of
Speaker 1: the Show PA director Megan Burke told Madame meg Linahan,
Speaker 1: if anyone was asking me for real advice on how
Speaker 1: to organize a union, I tell them to find their merit. Matthiah,
Speaker 1: She's the definition of ride or Die. Are you able
Speaker 1: to recognize your role in creating that CBA and defining
Speaker 1: what the league looks like even in the years to
Speaker 1: come that you're not playing in it.
Speaker 4: Yes, I want like hearing that quote from Megan, like
Speaker 4: oh well forever, like touch my heart. And so if
Speaker 4: we did not have Megan Burke, I don't know where
Speaker 4: are speaking to ride or die?
Speaker 2: Speaking Ride or Die.
Speaker 4: She is a true champion of what this league should
Speaker 4: and can be, and she is an absolute writer die
Speaker 4: for players and it has been incredible to work.
Speaker 2: With her and be alongside her and have.
Speaker 4: Her love and support and her belief in me and
Speaker 4: her willingness to allow me to say what I'm thinking,
Speaker 4: to ask for more, to demand things that like maybe
Speaker 4: it's too far off, but if we don't ask, like
Speaker 4: we'll never know the answer, We'll never at least be
Speaker 4: able to like dwindle it down to something we actually
Speaker 4: are okay with having. And so I think for me
Speaker 4: that when I look at my career, I think if
Speaker 4: I would have just played, I would have been like cool,
Speaker 4: had a great career. I was successful, I had these championships,
Speaker 4: I played with incredible people, was able to be coached
Speaker 4: by some of the best coaches in this league. But
Speaker 4: it is the work that I've done with the PA
Speaker 4: that has really like brought like such a holistic.
Speaker 2: View to my career. It's around like very much rounded
Speaker 2: that out.
Speaker 4: And with that work, I think I realized like how
Speaker 4: passionate I am about that side, about what it looks
Speaker 4: like to be in rooms that are making decisions, what
Speaker 4: it looks like to ask for things or re envision
Speaker 4: what is possible. And I think that doing that work
Speaker 4: has given me the foundation for what I will do
Speaker 4: next and the way in which I will be very
Speaker 4: similar to the player that I have been in the
Speaker 4: work that I will do in my afterlife.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I think that I talked to Sue about
Speaker 4: this a long time ago when she was, you know,
Speaker 4: on the WNBAPA and going through their conversations, and she's like,
Speaker 4: you do get to this point where like you're sitting
Speaker 4: at these tables and you're like, wow, I'm one of
Speaker 4: the smartest people in this room. Yes, and you do
Speaker 4: like you do have this like this like reinvention of
Speaker 4: self where you're like, wait a second, I can actually
Speaker 4: speak to this, and I can speak to it with
Speaker 4: a firmness that like this is right and this.
Speaker 2: Is wrong, and this is how we get to.
Speaker 4: Be better, And like gaining that confidence is really something.
Speaker 2: That I'm like been proud of.
Speaker 4: And the initial CBA I will always hold close to
Speaker 4: my heart because it was the thing that just started
Speaker 4: to put this league on a much different trajectory. But
Speaker 4: our second CBA really meant something to me because I
Speaker 4: was like, I think I knew I wouldn't be around
Speaker 4: for what the length, Well, I knew I wouldn't be
Speaker 4: around for like the length of the CBA. But I
Speaker 4: think I knew that I like wouldn't even enter it
Speaker 4: into like the next year, right, And to sit on
Speaker 4: those calls and to be like asking or pushing for
Speaker 4: something that you know is not gonna you are not
Speaker 4: going to benefit from, you get to be kind of
Speaker 4: more ruthless in your ask, you know, like because you
Speaker 4: know you're.
Speaker 2: Not being selfish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're saying, I know and feel that this is right,
Speaker 1: not because I want it for me, but because I
Speaker 1: know that it's what's right for everybody else.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And what the standard should be, yeah, and what
Speaker 4: players should have and what they should have for a
Speaker 4: long time. And if you don't get you know, if
Speaker 4: you don't raise that level, if there isn't like enough
Speaker 4: of a raise, then like when the next CBA comes around,
Speaker 4: that jump off points too low. So you never reached
Speaker 4: to where you should be. And so I think, Yeah,
Speaker 4: that work has been incredibly fulfilling.
Speaker 2: It has opened my eyes to a lot of things.
Speaker 4: Is open my eyes to a lot of conversations, and
Speaker 4: it's opened it's open a lot of discussion around what
Speaker 4: is needed in this league for it to be to
Speaker 4: reach the level of success that it deserves, that the
Speaker 4: women in it deserve, because we're no longer in this
Speaker 4: position that it's like where.
Speaker 2: They're going to have a league or we're not right.
Speaker 4: We are in the position now, which I think is
Speaker 4: a lot more tedious of we will be successful.
Speaker 2: But what is the height of that? How big can
Speaker 2: we go? How big can you go?
Speaker 4: To my previous point, I think the more that women
Speaker 4: of this league step into positions to.
Speaker 2: Shape that, the better off this league.
Speaker 1: I completely agree, and I love that you said in
Speaker 1: those meetings you earned the confidence of knowing you were
Speaker 1: one of the smarter people there and someone who knew
Speaker 1: what was required, and your lived experience came into play.
Speaker 1: I have to say, like one of the limited positive
Speaker 1: experiences I had in my ownership role with the Red
Speaker 1: Stars for a couple of years was that I was
Speaker 1: in meetings where I would have sold myself short as like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just a sports reporter, I'm just whatever, and instead
Speaker 1: realized I knew it was right for the players, I
Speaker 1: knew what the right choices were, I knew when people
Speaker 1: were doing the wrong thing or making the wrong choice,
Speaker 1: and I was confident enough to say it.
Speaker 2: I didn't have the power or the money to change things, which.
Speaker 1: Was in incredibly frustrating and made me see the world.
Speaker 1: I never have cared much about power and money, and
Speaker 1: now I'm like, well, shit, there's only so much you
Speaker 1: can do. But I did leave there being like I
Speaker 1: will feel confident in every room I walking, and I
Speaker 1: know Dominique Foxworth has said that about being in the
Speaker 1: NFL and then going into meetings with owners and being like, shit,
Speaker 1: these billionaires aren't smarter than me, they don't know better
Speaker 1: than me.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad you learned that because Merritt Matthiah is
Speaker 2: off the field and in other places, whether it's.
Speaker 1: A boardroom or at the front of a company or
Speaker 1: as a GM or an owner, like I want to
Speaker 1: see that. I'm excited to see that me too. You
Speaker 1: made me think of a Brett Dennen song. He as
Speaker 1: a lyric that says, now I'm planning trees I'll never climb,
Speaker 1: which is a way of looking at your later years
Speaker 1: of like, how am I making things matter that maybe
Speaker 1: I don't get but everybody else gets it. It feels significant,
Speaker 1: So we have to go. I'm not gonna have already taken.
Speaker 2: Too much time. I'm not going to ask you what's next?
Speaker 2: Not enough I know. I mean, I could talk to
Speaker 2: you forever.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask what's next in the long term,
Speaker 1: because I've been told retiring athletes hate to hear that.
Speaker 1: So I want to ask what's next in the short term,
Speaker 1: like next couple of weeks, next couple of months. As
Speaker 1: soon as that game on Friday ends and you're technically
Speaker 1: no longer.
Speaker 2: You know, you'll have.
Speaker 1: All your exit interviews and all your other stuff, but like,
Speaker 1: what's the first thing you're going to do.
Speaker 4: I am very excited to just live in a moment
Speaker 4: where I'm not having to worry about like working out
Speaker 4: and being fit and yeah, to kind of just let
Speaker 4: myself be and travel and do things that you just
Speaker 4: don't get to do as a professional athlete. There's a
Speaker 4: lot of sacrifice that comes with putting yourself first and
Speaker 4: wanting to be great at something, and I have done
Speaker 4: that for a.
Speaker 2: Very long time.
Speaker 4: So I look forward to spending like some quality time
Speaker 4: with like friends and family and it not be not
Speaker 4: be weighed down by like I have this to do
Speaker 4: and I need to go do this, and I need
Speaker 4: to find the gym that I can be in, and
Speaker 4: I need to find the trainer that will help me
Speaker 4: like do technical work and like all this stuff. So yeah,
Speaker 4: to not have that part of my brain and that
Speaker 4: consistent like conversation going on, I I don't.
Speaker 2: Know if I'll know what to do with myself. There's
Speaker 2: two paths.
Speaker 1: How the people are like, oh my god, there's no
Speaker 1: one telling me what to do every second.
Speaker 2: I hate it, And everyone else.
Speaker 1: Is like, oh my god, what a dream is to
Speaker 1: just wake up and be like what do I want
Speaker 1: to do?
Speaker 2: I know, and I know, like in you know, whatever's next.
Speaker 4: There is this part that like you do lose a
Speaker 4: bit of autonomy when you start doing anything again. But
Speaker 4: I think for me, like there is a part of me,
Speaker 4: like within professional sport that in some of which I
Speaker 4: was saying before, the way women are treated in this
Speaker 4: we need to kind of evolutionize that and really be
Speaker 4: able to expand how women in professional sport, especially in
Speaker 4: the NWSL, are able to interact.
Speaker 2: With life on the road, within environments, within markets.
Speaker 4: And I think for me there was a part of
Speaker 4: it where I'm like, oh my god, like the lack.
Speaker 2: Of autonomy that I have like I'm too.
Speaker 4: Self aware to like let it not be a thing anymore,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like I don't want to
Speaker 4: wear that on a wait trip, and I don't want
Speaker 4: to eat that, and I don't want to like be
Speaker 4: here then right now and all these things. So I
Speaker 4: think I'm going to lean into just having some time
Speaker 4: to do whatever.
Speaker 2: Yes, which will be really nice. I know, a.
Speaker 4: Like a thing of guacamole in Mexico hates to see
Speaker 4: me coming because and maybe a pacifico.
Speaker 2: So yes, Oh my gosh, I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 1: Just splurge, get some full ass nachos, is a bunch
Speaker 1: of beers.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for coming out so much.
Speaker 2: This was so fun. We're just going to turn this
Speaker 2: mic off of party. Yeah, let's do.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to Merrik for sitting down with
Speaker 1: me in Ohi and for being so great and so
Speaker 1: honest about her.
Speaker 2: Time in the league.
Speaker 1: We got to take another break stick around Welcome back slices.
Speaker 1: We love that you're listening, but we want you to
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