WEBVTT - Derek Shulman 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.200 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sense Podcast. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.400 My guest today is Derek Trullman, known as the lead 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.080 singer of General Giant and the man who signed Bon Jovie, 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:24.119 Cinderella Slip, not so many other acts. Derek, good to 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:25.960 have you here. Nice to be here with you, Bob. 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.680 This's as been a long time, absolutely so. Uh. There 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:34.440 was recently a fan video of proclamation at General Giant song. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.320 How did that come together? It came together actually from 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:41.560 my son at who um has been bugging me since 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:46.199 he was born actually about uh, he's uh in his 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:51.720 mid thirties. Uh, not having seen his father actually be 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.200 uh person on the stage and having seen me on 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.200 the other side of the business, and knowing that I 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.880 was a musician before I was I joined the dark 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:03.560 side of the business, as it were. And in the 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:08.119 last few years he's been seeing videos of me back 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:12.520 in the day forty plus years ago. And he said, why, 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:17.480 and it's bizarre that the fan base that we had 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.840 has grown exponentially. Um, you know it was it was 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.760 kind of a smallish, cultish fan base, but it's grown 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.800 exponentially on the internet. And he said, you should really 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:33.200 do a a reunion of some kind. I said, Noah, 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.839 his name is Noah. Uh, that's not going to happen. 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:37.560 Here's I've been all far. I thought, you do do 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:39.920 that kind of stuff. But he said, so you've got 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.800 a lot of fans, let's try this out. And I said, 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.800 go for it if you want to, and in fact 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.440 he got. He put the word out to the to 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.880 the fan base out there, and he had hundreds of 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:57.320 people sending their versions of proclamation. And he convinced me 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.680 finally to sing a line or two and the other 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:04.320 guys in the band who were alive, which general they 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.160 are except for our our drummer who passed away at 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.400 First Bubber quite a few years ago, to to include 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.280 our own little piece in the in the video. So 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.160 we did that. He put it together, my brother Ray 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:21.240 mixed the audio, and now I put this video up 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:26.480 and in in fact, Proud Magazine got involved and said this, 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.240 this is great. We love this and and now it's 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.240 got a lot of views. And uh, it's kind of 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:39.040 interesting that that my band which I left and we 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:43.760 we broke up forty years ago, it's probably more um 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:45.800 well known if you like it, and more sort of 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:50.520 uh have have a bigger base when we did when 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.240 we were going at at the time, so it's it's 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.960 kind of bizarre, but it was his idea and he 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.120 put it together. And my brother Ray, who does a 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:00.720 lot of audio stuff for a lot of other bands 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.080 five point one mixes, he did the the audio mixes, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.959 which which was damned difficult by the way. So I 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:09.680 just said, yes, sounds like a good idea. So I'm 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.400 not gonna take any credit for it. Okay, why do 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.919 you think your audience is so large and larger than 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:19.359 it was forty years ago? Lots of lots of answers 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:24.760 to that question. I think that um that it's gonna 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:29.680 sound rite and it's gonna sound uh, I hope not pretentious. 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.360 But I think the music held up it was it 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.520 was music which was authentic. It was music that m 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:41.760 I we did for ourselves. Rather than following a lead 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.880 or following another band and saying, let's play like this, 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:49.360 we were a band that put our own selves together 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:53.400 and put a band, put our backgrounds and our loves 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:58.040 of what kind of music influences together and became gentle giant. 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.960 I mean, obviously I came from a I started being 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:03.800 in a band in the mid sixties when I was 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.160 at school, so we we went through a lot of 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.440 a lot of things. But I think that I think 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:12.760 that the music held up and has held up because 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.920 it's um I hate to use the word that it 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:21.560 sounds like a pretentious word, but it's not. It has 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.240 has It really does have authenticity and and it doesn't 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.119 sound like anyone else. We did never try to sound 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.800 like anyone else. Of course, we all had influences personally 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:34.440 of what we loved, and we draw dragged in those 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:39.080 influences into the band, and the band those influences were 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.159 started to a part if you like, and became gentle 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:46.680 giant okay uh today, and I know everybody hates being 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:51.159 labeled general giant was certainly seen as prog rock. Prog 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:55.120 rock has a bad name in general. In addition, rock 0:04:55.279 --> 0:05:00.360 is not dominating the church. Is this a past say style? Were? 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.760 Is there room for prague rock in today's world? Bob? 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.600 You know what, We never considered ourselves trag or or 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:13.280 or rock, yes, but prague. No. We just did what 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:17.080 we did, and luckily and thankfully we did. We were 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.200 We put our band together at a time when there 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.360 was no titling there was no chiron saying this is 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.680 a kind of band you are. We were just a 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.359 band that put our music again, are our influences and 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:34.119 are who we were together? And um we made music 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:38.760 that we enjoyed, and we pushed ourselves musically, uh, personally 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.920 for each other. Um. And then we when we pushed 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.560 ourselves musically for each other, we took it on stage 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.040 and hopefully one or two people would show up and 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.680 pay money, and we make a living for it. So 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.520 being labeled as a progue rock band, I don't think 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.760 we ever considered what we were. We were rocked because 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.240 we had we enjoyed rocking. We are our backgrounds. My 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.000 backgrounds certainly is in R and B and blues and 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:08.360 everything else, and my brothers was in classical etcetera, etcetera. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:14.760 But as far as being uh relevant today, it for 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.040 me it doesn't really matter. I don't care. But obviously 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.840 the way I've seen it, uh and the way that 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.960 what's transpired on the internet, it seemsonally it seems to 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:31.360 be um a little more relevant today than it used 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:36.039 to be actually in a strange way. And because it's 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.359 interesting to see the the who sent in the music 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.320 two for this video which you mentioned, and I would 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.480 say three cores, if not seven eighths of the people 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:51.200 that sent in their musical pieces who were were people 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.440 who are are under thirty. So we're not talking about 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.120 all farce going back and saying, you know, trying to 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.039 pick up the guitars and they're authritis getting in the 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.240 way of them playing their their instruments. It was young 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:09.360 people listening to the music we made and enjoying it 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.800 and and and enjoying it for a reason. And I 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.000 guess the reason was because it was relevant to them. 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.160 So I don't know if it's answering a question or 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:24.800 giving you an answer, but um, past I I don't 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.000 think so. I think that if it's it's the it's 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.800 the same as it It's the same as great jazz, 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.640 it's a great it's the same as great um dance music, 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.560 is the same as great musical, great classical music. It 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:39.920 stands the test of time. And I think from what 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.360 I see, I hope that our music has that stood 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.920 the test of time. Um, which for me is kind 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:51.320 of bizarre because I, as you know, I joined the 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:53.720 dark side of the business issue as we just as 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:59.520 you just introduced me to uh, and the interesting thing 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:05.280 that I've discovered and no, and really it's very very 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.720 interesting to me because, as you know, we've talked over 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.400 the years about what this businesses and who we are 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:13.400 and how we are how we get along in this 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:18.480 crazy world of ours, and right now it's the craziest time, um, 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:20.800 having done most things in the business. If you like, 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.920 what people come back to, and this is me personally, 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.680 what people will come back to for me is the music. 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.240 It's not about the business. It's not about record sales. 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.360 It's not about who's bigger who's not. It's not about 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:39.160 you know, all the other means of hearing, the streaming 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.040 and this that, the other tiktoks and and it's etcetera. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.400 It's about the music. And when people talk to me, 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.760 it's not about bon Jovi or or or or slip 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.880 Not or Pantera or whatever. It's about what I did 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:56.760 when I was a musician. And that's very heartening for me. Actually. Okay, 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:58.840 so how did you decide to give up being a 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.600 musician and go to the side. Well, that's another story 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:07.480 again because as I explained to you prior, um the 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:13.040 General Giant. We started the General Giant in but I 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.640 started my first group and when I was at school 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.440 in nineteen sixty six. Uh, and that was an incredible period, 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.040 I have to say. Uh. My first group was a 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.600 group called Sigma Dupre and the Big Sound. I was 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.080 at school, my brother was at school. My older brother 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.640 was a school teacher. We put a band together and 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:34.320 we we loved R and B and blues and everything 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.160 else like most of the other classic rock bands of 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.520 today did. And we went on the road. And even 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:42.640 though we were I was at school, we went on 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:47.520 the road and worked nine days a week, literally getting 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.679 a fan base and eventually having a couple of very 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:59.760 big hits. Um. Those hits became uh, We're We're good 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.680 for us in certain respects, but became a millstone around 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.680 our next because we were expected to be a pop 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.640 band and stay in the same groove. So I decided, 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.360 we decided, I'll give you a long story and if if, 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:16.200 if it's too long, if it's too long, keep going. 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:21.160 So um in nine, when we broke the first band 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:26.360 uf um, it was a decision that we were studied 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.360 by the fact that we were a pop band and 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:32.199 that and that really stopped his uh, you know, doing 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:36.000 something new and when we were playing to a an 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:40.000 audience who are eating scampionships, you know, and waiting for 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.839 the hits. That really kind of got to me more 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.400 than anyone. So I said, we don't want to do 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.680 this anymore. Thankfully, we had a manager. And this is 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.360 back in the day when managers believed in musicians. M 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:58.520 We had a manager that undertook to UH finance a 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.120 new project that we said we want to put together UM. 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.520 And his name was Jerry Braun and I give him 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:08.640 full credit for this. Uh. He put money into our 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:13.080 pocket for weekly monthly salaries because he believed in us 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.480 as musicians. So we found three other musicians This is 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:20.400 myself and my two our other brothers who we want 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.120 who we wanted to do something again new. We didn't 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.319 know what it was, but it was wasn't going to 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.199 be what we were. We wanted to be the antithesis 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.160 of this pop thing which we got out of UM 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.319 and other bands were doing at the very same time 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.280 that I mentioned, UH, you know, bands like the Move, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:41.520 the Idol, Race, Moody Blues, Oh boy, there's that. So 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.079 at that period of time, the mid sixties to the 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.600 latest to the late sixties and the seventies, all in England. 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.040 It was an incredible time and just I can't, I 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.680 can't describe how amazing it was. And then from the 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.280 in the mid early mid seventies, everything's changed, but it 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.320 was in UK where it was. It was so element 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.200 and so obvious. Anyway, so we became gentle giant. We 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:08.720 took about six six months in rehearsals and we found 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.920 this keyboard player called Carrie men Here who was a 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:17.240 recent graduate of the Royal Academy of Music in composition actually, 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.760 and Gary Green, who was a real blues player. I 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.800 mean he was you know, we came in whiled away at. 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.840 In fact, he was the very first we we we 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:31.240 we interviewed wed I don't know how many guitarists, maybe 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.800 thirty five, forty, and he was the very first one 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.640 that said can I tune up? So he got he 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.120 got a kind of a gold star next to his name, 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.079 and we went to a couple of drubbers. But the 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.679 bottom line is so we we spent about six or 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:50.800 nine months recording, rehearsing and writing and putting this band 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.040 together and putting our first and then going into the 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.240 studio and I think November of nine seventy with Tony 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:03.640 Visconti as this group called Gentle Giant. Uh. And it 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:08.559 was really an amalgam of different kinds of music, a 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.680 different kind of influences that we came from and and 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:17.000 and our new found friends slash um band members. That 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.520 became what Gentle Giant became. And it was a really 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.560 kind of the birth of a realization. If you like, 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.080 that's the first song of a song called Giant, and 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.160 that was where we were, and that was the first, 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.200 um the first recording of the ten year tenor career 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.520 of a bigger Gentle Giant. Yes, but we're leading up 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:38.360 to the question, how did you decide to pack it 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:40.960 in as a musician? Oh, yes, you did say that 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:47.360 well as a musician in UM so was all, wow, 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.440 was this amazing? And then we went through his again. 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:55.560 Bands go through this bands bands, and I think everyone 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.680 goes through a seven generations of band. If you like, 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.959 you're born, you're born, you're an ada lesson you come, 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.120 you become a young adult, you become an adult, become 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.920 middle aged, you become older, and you become old. We 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:14.000 became a little old towards the late seventies and I 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:18.839 just felt it creatively and even um the passion of 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.520 going out in front of the crowd. And I remembered 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:26.280 the last tour, the idea of going out and playing 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.600 the songs and recording. It was a whole It was 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:34.680 a whole sort of cycle of things. You record, you rehearse, 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:41.560 your tour, your record, your rehearse, you tour. And and 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.680 as I said, that's what I brought up, my my prior, 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.240 a gentle giant life if you like, because I've done 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.320 it for fifteen years. And I remembered that we were 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:55.320 touring the USA again and playing Peoria or Wayne Wayne 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.200 Indiana or fourt Way Indiana should they say. And then 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:02.120 in these kind of places held no no, um, no 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.360 sort of excitement for me. And when something feels like 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.040 a job, and it felt like we are going out 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.880 on a job, it really kind of feels like it's 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.880 time to stop. And I would say this to anyone, 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.560 no matter what your job is. And I know most 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.600 people cannot do this, but the fact, the fact that 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.080 a creative person would go out and say, oh God, 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.920 we have to tour again, and okay, we have to 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.120 get together in Buffalo and play the Buffalo gig. You know, 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.240 it was like, do we have to Yes, I guess 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:34.400 we have to do it because we have to make 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.040 a living. But when when you feel that way in 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.880 the creative world, that's the time to stop because you're 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.160 not being creative. You're not you're not using any passion. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.760 It's it's like clocking in and clocking out. And that's 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.200 I kind of knew it, and I think some of 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.840 the other members knew that. It was like, Okay, it 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.400 feels like we're doing the same thing over and over 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:58.000 again unless we did something completely different, which I don't 0:15:58.000 --> 0:15:59.760 think we were able to do. Other bands of our 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.520 ill like Yes and Genesis, were they were able to 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.320 take their music into a pop direction. We never could. 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.200 So we felt like a job. And when it feels 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.480 like a job, we said that's it. Time to stop, 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:16.000 and we did. Okay, Well, was everybody on the same page. 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.040 How long did it take to come to this conclusion? 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.160 As you say, you've been doing it fifteen years and 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:25.800 you're only thirty years old. Um, yeah, Two or three 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.480 of the band came to the same conclusion. A couple 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.320 of the other guys were not of the same opinion, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:38.200 but nevertheless, it was you know what, what I didn't 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.160 want to do, and what what I never want to do, 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.520 and what I think my brothers I never want to do, 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.000 and perhaps that the other guys in the band want 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.000 to do and wanted to do has become a parody 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.920 of who you were and who you are and to 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.760 rehash the same things that you're doing over and over again. 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.640 So you know, it was a chapter. It was a 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.040 fantastic chapter, and they all are pieces of life, but 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.960 it was not something I wanted to go out and 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:05.840 do the same thing. And when if you again, when 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.240 it feels like a job, when it feels like you're 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:13.760 clocking in and clocking out in the creative world, for me, 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.439 you know, for me, it didn't work and I had 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:21.000 to stop. When you did stop, did you already have 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.200 it in your mind what you were going to do next? 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.480 Or you just said I can't do this anymore, Bob, 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:29.119 I had no clue. I had absolutely no clue. I 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:31.159 knew I didn't want to do that any I mean, 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.919 I knew I didn't want to do the circus of 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.840 touring and this and that the other that I knew 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:41.560 I had the opportunity to to record, to be a producer, 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.600 that didn't tackle my fancy either. I mean, I enjoyed 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:47.919 being in the studio and working with the guys, but 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.359 that really had no interest for me either. To be 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.720 locked into a room twenty seven which had no darkness. 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:56.840 So for a year or so I had no clue. 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.800 I was lost, to tell you the truth. And then 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.400 a friend of mine, well, just to stay there. Since 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.840 you were on the road to earn a living for 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.360 did you have enough money to not work for a year? 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:14.200 Believe it a lot, Thankfully I did. It's it's great 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:18.399 to say this, but we were lucky, I guess lucky 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:23.000 in the respect that um I took on the mantel 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:29.320 halfway through the seventies of becoming the Sequaisi manager uh 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:33.920 and and and the guy that understood what it took 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:35.720 on the other side of the defense, as well as 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:41.160 being part of the band. In retrospect um, it's a mistake. 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:43.840 It was a mistake because you lose on one side 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.359 because you're not you're you're in the band, so you 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:50.760 can't give a real objective viewpoint on that big a manager. 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:52.960 At the same time you're in the band, so you 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:58.600 can't give your attributes to being creative However, what it 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:03.120 did was give set me up for what I did 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:08.639 next in in a in a way that I think, um, 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.359 did you know? Did me? Okay? So I was able 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:17.359 to make sure that the band had enough money again 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.960 because I was looking after the bunnies coming in for 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.399 the group, that we all shared it equally and I 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:26.360 knew where it was as opposed to going in other 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.760 people's pockets. So yes, I was able to get along 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.320 and not work per se if you like, for a 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.920 year or so and wonder what the hell I was 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.840 gonna do. However, you know, after a year and a 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:39.800 half or whatever it was gonna get it was gonna 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.840 get haired. So thankfully, um, So to answer you a 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.480 question that that's exactly what it was. But I got 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:52.240 a call from a friend um in New York who 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:57.280 I knew from UK. He was a head of PolyGram International, 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.399 who worked for Prisonless Records, who he was sign two 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.480 back in the day, and he said, have you ever 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:07.280 thought about joining you know, a record company? And that 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:09.800 was like an asthma to me. You know, what are 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:13.200 you talking about? That's the enemy. But in certain respects 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:18.119 um as you as you as you put it, so 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:22.080 so uh you know clinically, Um, I had to make 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.119 a living. So I thought, well, you know, let me 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.000 let me see, let me give it a shot. So 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:28.720 I went up to New York. I was living in 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:32.400 California at the time, which I hated by the way. Um, 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:37.879 and went up to New York and got offered a 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.679 job as a promotion man of all things and an 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:46.560 artist development, but promotion primarily. Um, but that's a grind 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:50.280 being a radio promotion person. Well, the reason I was hired, 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.520 to tell you the truth, was because the guy who 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:57.160 was who hired me, Jerry Jassy, and operated to him. Um, 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:00.840 he what the reason? Why are they? And this is 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:04.399 again getting back to the prior lifetime if you like, 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:07.399 It was because two of my biggest fans are the 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:10.760 biggest fans of the group, were Lee Abrams and Jeff Pollock. 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.080 And Lee Abrams, of course, as you probably know, was 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.800 a consultant to one of the biggest radio station consultants, 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.040 and he was a big fan and and and Jeff 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:27.200 had had another consultancy for radio. And I guess Jerry thought, boy, 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:29.600 I think if Derek can get to him, then then 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:34.399 we're all set. Well, of course that didn't work, but nevertheless, 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.639 I think that's why I got the gig um. But thankfully, 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.240 I said, very quickly into something which I enjoyed more, 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.399 was amusing. But that's the reason, to tell you the truth, 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.360 the reason why I got the gig in the first place. Okay, 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.520 so then it transmogrifies into the music. What does that 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:56.119 look like? Well, it was. It was interesting because having 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.200 been on the road and been a musician, I knew 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:01.320 a lot of the musicians and bands and everything else. 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:06.280 So a lot of people, managers and managers especially, would 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:09.400 come in and go to the A and R department. 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:12.080 At that time, PolyGram was kind of a bit of 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.800 a mess. It was like it was they were still 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:17.679 trying to put Phillips and and and Seamens together to 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:20.399 make a real company. And in certain respects it was 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:22.560 kind of like a free for all and it was 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:26.119 there was no real sort of top down leadership. It 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:28.040 was more for me inside, and there was a group 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.480 of us saying, let's let's let's make this company. Let's 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:34.240 do something interesting here. And there was there was already 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:36.920 a cattle. It was already a few bands in the 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:44.320 in the in the roster like kiss like uh def Leppard, etcetera. 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:51.760 There were just bubbling under and Um I was again 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:55.679 Jerry Brown, who was my manager at at for Gentle Giant, 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:59.880 UM came in with my very first A and R thing, 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:02.560 if you like, was he came with a new Ura 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:05.480 Heat record. He didn't go to the A and R department. 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:07.680 He went came to me said, Derek, do you think 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:12.400 you can uh, you know you can convince and anyone 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:14.399 that's worth putting out. I said, let me hear it. 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:16.920 And they had a couple of songs on the album, 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:19.840 uh It's One song was called That's the Way that 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:23.600 It Is and the other song was called on the Rebound, 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:25.679 And I said, I think this could do well, And 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:27.439 in fact I helped them get a deal with the 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:30.640 fact that song became a decent science kit and put 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:34.080 them on the road again to being a a band 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:36.800 that was kind of meaningful in the US and sold 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:40.000 quite a lot of records. So that maybe think about 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:42.520 segging into the A and R world, which I did 0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:46.720 very quickly. Said since then, so I started promotion but 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:50.679