1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast Day 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,079 Speaker 1: and Paranormal Podcast Network, where we offer you podcasts of 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained. Get ready now for 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: Beyond Contact with Captain Rong. 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: to Coast AM, employees of Premier Networks, or their sponsors 9 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 2: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. 11 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain rang And. Each week on Beyond Contact, 12 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 3: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of 13 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 3: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from 14 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 3: the newest cases as we talk with the top experts. 15 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 3: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Contact. I am Captain 16 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: Ron and today I have the pleasure of speaking with 17 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 3: mister Kevin Randall. Kevin's retired lieutenant colonel who served in 18 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 3: Vietnam as a helicopter pilot and in Iraq as a 19 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 3: battalion intelligence officer. He is simply a prolific author who's 20 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 3: written over one hundred and twenty five books. He's written 21 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 3: countless articles for print, and even has an ongoing blog. 22 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 3: He can be heard every week on Coast to Coast AM. 23 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 3: As one of the pre eminent experts in our community, 24 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 3: we all owe him a debt of gratitude for all 25 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 3: his countless hours of investigating various cases over the last 26 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 3: fifty years plus. He's tracked down loads of information and 27 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 3: most importantly, facts on various cases in the UFO community. 28 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: Hey Kevin, welcome sir to beyond contact. 29 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 4: Hi you doing. 30 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 5: I'm glad to be here, finally excellent. 31 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 4: I must tell you how much I appreciate you, or, 32 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 4: as you put it, dispassionate research into many of these 33 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 4: UFO cases. I was just on actually with George Nory 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 4: last week and I shared that I felt, from my view, 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 4: many of the people in the UFO community often jump 36 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 4: too quickly to say it's aliens, or they're too quick 37 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 4: to believe a story. On the other hand, many people 38 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 4: outside of our community are too quick to dismiss everything 39 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 4: out of hand. So I do love how seriously you 40 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 4: scrutinize each detail and get to the bottom of these things. 41 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 4: These cases aren't so solid anymore once you get to 42 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 4: the bottom of them, right, there. 43 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 5: Is always an ongoing investigation. I think some of the 44 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 5: older cases, some of the really prominent cases that we've 45 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 5: been talking about, once you get access to all the 46 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 5: information and through the Internet and other contacts, we now 47 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 5: were able to do that where we hadn't had that 48 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 5: opportunity before. We learned things about those cases that call 49 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 5: them into question. So yeah, there is there are problems 50 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 5: like that. They're also cases where we were able to 51 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 5: solidify them and provide additional information corroboration, so it works 52 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 5: both ways. 53 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, And of course we only need one to be genuine, right, 54 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 4: I mean, that's the thing, so I'd rather eliminate all 55 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 4: these that don't apply, so we get down to the 56 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 4: meat of it. You know, when you get to the 57 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 4: bottom of a case and you feel it's not genuine, 58 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 4: do you think that they're lying in your view, or 59 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 4: maybe they're trying to get fame or money or something, 60 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 4: or do you find that usually they think it's genuine 61 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 4: and they're just making a misidentification. 62 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 5: Perhaps, yes, all the above. Certainly there's part of that 63 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 5: where people are searching for the spotlight, which is a 64 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 5: powerful draw to get themselves mentioned in the newspapers or 65 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 5: interviewed for documentaries. There is a belief by some that 66 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 5: if you get into the right area, there might be 67 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 5: great deals of money to be earned in that way. 68 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 5: And there's some people who just make legitimate mistakes and 69 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 5: are convinced they've seen something off world or something on you, 70 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 5: and we can look at it and say, well, this 71 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 5: is what happened. The best example of that is a 72 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 5: case from Utah, and the researcher was told about a 73 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 5: woman who had seen a hovering UFO and behind the 74 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 5: cockpit windows or whatever, she could see the alien creatures. 75 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 5: And they went out to the location the next day 76 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,799 Speaker 5: where she had made the siding, and lo and behold, 77 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 5: the thing was back. Frank Salisbury went out and in 78 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 5: the woods a little bit of ways he found some 79 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 5: teenagers who were launching those old hot air balloons that 80 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 5: were prevalent in the late seventies and eighties, and he 81 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 5: asked them, were you guys here last night? And they 82 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 5: said yes, And he said, well, I've now saw him 83 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 5: the siding. And he went back and talked to the 84 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 5: woman he said, who'd identified originally that the thing is 85 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 5: what she'd seen the night before. I said, no, no, 86 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 5: that's not what I had seen. So she was convinced 87 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 5: she had seen something off worldly. We have an explanation, 88 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 5: she just was not willing to accept it. So it's 89 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 5: a little bit of everything, I think when you get 90 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 5: into it, the other side of the corner of the 91 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 5: people who don't want to be associated with UFOs and 92 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 5: don't want their nagas imagine it, or t telling a 93 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 5: story that they feel needs to be told, but without 94 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 5: the ability to name the source, and it loses some 95 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 5: of its credibility. 96 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 4: And I understand today that you know, with social media 97 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,679 Speaker 4: and whatnot, the proliferation of all these sort of tools, 98 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 4: I think that people do want notoriety or want to 99 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 4: go viral or whatever. But what about these cases from 100 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 4: the fifties, sixties and seventies. Do you think there were 101 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 4: a lot of people still trying to do hoaxes or lying? 102 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 4: Was there still enough quote unquote fame. 103 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 5: Even though we didn't have social media back then, there 104 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 5: was a certain desire to either get their names in 105 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 5: the newspaper or to find themselves on television. And it 106 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,679 Speaker 5: worked for some people, and it didn't work for others, 107 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 5: but there was some of that going on. When we've 108 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 5: chased some of the cases down. Ninety nine percent of 109 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 5: the picture were taken by teenage boys, and ninety nine 110 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 5: percent of those were hoaxes. Go and what we found 111 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 5: is later in life they come forward and they say, yeah, 112 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 5: you know, I was young and foolish and I thought 113 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 5: it would be a great joke. And sometimes he got 114 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 5: out of hand, and sometimes it was designed specifically to 115 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 5: get them some kind of local notoriety, So you have 116 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 5: to take a look at that. One of the exceptions 117 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 5: would be Carl Hart, who took photographs of the Lubbic 118 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 5: lights back in September of nineteen fifty one. I was 119 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 5: able to interview him in the mid nineteen nineties. I 120 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 5: was in Lubbock doing research and on a lark, looked 121 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 5: his name up in the phone book and there it was. 122 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 5: So I called him on the phone to chat with 123 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 5: him about it, and he said he still didn't know 124 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 5: what he had photographed. He was still confused by it. 125 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 5: So that would be the exception for the rule. I 126 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 5: think the pictures are interesting and show a V shaped 127 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 5: formation flying over Lubbic, Texas, who was described literally by 128 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 5: hundreds of people over a period of several weeks back 129 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 5: in the early nineteen fifties, and he was able to 130 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 5: get pictures of these of the formation. There have been 131 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 5: others who say, sid, well, it's a hoax. He made 132 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 5: the whole thing up. I'm thinking by the time you 133 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 5: get to the nineteen nineties and he's in his sixties now, 134 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 5: that he would have said, yeah, you know, you know, 135 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 5: it was just something I did. But he was still 136 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 5: confused by what he had photographed. So I mean that 137 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 5: would be the exception that kind of proves the rule. 138 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 4: Sure. I love how often you just back in the day, 139 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 4: would just look up somebody in the phone book and 140 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 4: it was and then you'd get them. That's pretty incredible, 141 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 4: But you had to have the phone book to look 142 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 4: them up. 143 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 5: That literally hundreds of phone books. Early in the early 144 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 5: days of computers, there were a number of CDs that 145 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 5: you could get with the phone books from around the country, 146 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 5: and so you could look people up. Knowing where people 147 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 5: live was critical to finding them back in the old days, 148 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 5: and you could call directory assistance. I called directory assistants 149 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 5: in New Mexico and I was able to get Bill 150 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 5: Brasel's phone number, didn't know exactly where he lived, you know, 151 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 5: the director assistance in New Mexico. They gave me the 152 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 5: phone number. 153 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 4: That's a bygone era. So some of these people were 154 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 4: lying and some of them were misidedifications. Have you ever 155 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 4: found cases where you thought perhaps there was some intentional 156 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 4: disinformation involved. 157 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 5: Bob Cornette and I were doing research early on before 158 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 5: I got involved with KUFOS and some of the other people, 159 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 5: and we talked to a guy who claimed that he 160 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 5: had taken a weather balloon into a city to display 161 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 5: it to explain the UFO siding. Later on we discovered 162 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 5: what he was talking about was Roswell. Now I know 163 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 5: of nobody who actually did that. I don't know of 164 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 5: anything that happened like that, but that would seem to 165 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 5: be an instance of disinformation because he was talking about 166 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 5: tides to the military, and the military talkdum into doing 167 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 5: this or ordered him to do this sort of thing. 168 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 5: That's the one case where I would really suspect disinformation. 169 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 5: A lot of what we would think of disinformation as 170 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 5: really misinformation, and it comes from inside the UFO community. 171 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 5: And the best example I can think of that as 172 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 5: MGA twelve. I think of that as being wholly created 173 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 5: inside the UFO committey. In fact, Bill Moore had mentioned 174 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 5: to a number of people, including Stan Friedman and Brad Sparks. 175 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 5: I believe he was thinking of creating it Roswell type 176 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 5: document because he'd taken the investigation as far as he 177 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 5: could and there were people who wouldn't talk to him, 178 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 5: and he thought if I had a document and it 179 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 5: showed others were talking, that maybe they would be a 180 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 5: little bit freer with the information. And so he did 181 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 5: create the MG twelve documents. I think there's pretty clear 182 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 5: evidence of that. In my opinion, that's what happened. But 183 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 5: the point is people have pointed to that as possibility 184 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 5: of disinformation. I think it's misinformation. I think it was 185 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 5: created inside the UFO community for a specific purpose. I 186 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 5: don't think it was disinformation created by whoever was running 187 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 5: the investigation. That's something else. Again. I don't think that 188 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 5: MJ twelve ever existed as such. Now we hear about 189 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 5: I guess it's the Legacy Program or the Legacy Project, 190 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 5: which sounds suspiciously like what we've all envisioned as the 191 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 5: Oversight Committee controlling the UFO information or the UAP information. 192 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 5: Now and that seems to be kind of what MG 193 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 5: twelve was. We we'd always suspected something like that. If 194 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 5: you if you, well, it feels like. 195 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 4: There would be something like that. It just makes sense 196 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 4: that there would be a group, right. 197 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, that's what I was saying. We had always 198 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 5: speculated that if you presented with something like the crash 199 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 5: at Roswell, you would create some kind of organization THI tank, Yeah, 200 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 5: the two to look at it and to see where 201 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 5: it's going on, what it means in its entirety, and 202 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 5: control the flow of information. And I think that you know, 203 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 5: that makes that makes perfect sense. 204 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 4: We're gonna have to stop right there, Kevin. When we 205 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 4: come back, we're going to talk to Kevin Randall about Roswell, 206 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 4: which he's done extensive work on. 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Now you along with Don Schmid 237 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 4: and Tom Carey and Stanton and some others have really 238 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 4: done some incredible work vetting these people, digging into this case. 239 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 4: You've had the opportunity to speak directly to some of 240 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 4: these first hand witnesses. What are some of the most 241 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 4: compelling aspects of this case that allow you to think 242 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 4: it might be an extraterrestrial explanation. 243 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 5: The witnesses I talked to personally, of course, Jesse marcell 244 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 5: A senior who I never had the opportunity to talk to, 245 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 5: Jesse marcell junior. Of course we became friends. I talked 246 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 5: to Edwin Easley, who was a Provost marshal and Roswell 247 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 5: in nineteen forty seven. Provost marshal like the chief of police. 248 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 5: He controlled the security for the base, and he controlled 249 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 5: them pea company that patrolled the town for when the 250 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 5: soldiers were misbehaving and that sort of thing. When I 251 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 5: first talked to him, he said repeatedly, I can't talk 252 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 5: about it. I was foreigned to secrecy, and we have 253 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 5: that on tape, of course, and he'd mentioned a little 254 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 5: bit of what was going on. I think he told 255 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 5: me at one point that mac Brassel had been held 256 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 5: at the guesthouse on the base, which was kind of 257 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 5: an interesting corroboration for mac brasel's involvement, and we're talking 258 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 5: about that, and I finally said to him, are we 259 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 5: following the right path? And he said, what do you mean? 260 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 5: And I said, we think it's extraterrestrial and he said, well, 261 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 5: let me put it this way, You're not on the 262 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 5: wrong path. Absolutely corroboration leading us to the extraterrestrial. So 263 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 5: that's what happened. But I think his testimony was very, 264 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 5: very interesting and very credible. Well. Water HoTT, of course, 265 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 5: was always talking about how he had written the press release, 266 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 5: and it turned out he wasn't sure if he'd written 267 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 5: the press release, or Colonel Blanchard had called him on 268 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 5: the phone and given him the information so he could 269 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 5: produce the press release, or Blanchard called him to office 270 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 5: and handed into the document that he was supposed to release, 271 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 5: or however transpired. But he spent a lot of time 272 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 5: saying that he had not seen anything. All he did 273 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 5: was write the press release. And then she's a quarter 274 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 5: of a century ago now, I said, around two thousand, 275 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 5: he mentioned to a French documentary company that he had 276 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 5: seen the craft and the bodies, and this alerted Wendy Connor, 277 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 5: I think Dennis Baalzeizer, who interviewed him in depth and 278 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 5: he produced a produced a video of him. And then 279 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 5: Don Schmid, of course interviewed him and they produced a 280 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 5: affidavit that he signed. But that always struck me as 281 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 5: odd because here we are beyond two thousand and he's 282 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 5: finally admitting that he saw the craft and the bodies. 283 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 5: I talked to a guy in the mid nineteen nineties, 284 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 5: nineteen ninety six, I think Richard Harris, who'd been a 285 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 5: finance officer Roswell in nineteen forty seven, and he told 286 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 5: me back then before Walter Ewart admitted to having seen anything, 287 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 5: they were in the hangar and Walter says, beyond that 288 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 5: door is the bodies. Did you want to see them? 289 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 4: Said? 290 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 5: He put his hand on the door, and then he 291 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 5: just decided he didn't want to see the bodies. I'm 292 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 5: thinking out of him through the door in a minute, 293 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 5: Oh for sure. 294 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 4: But I mean, you're. 295 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 5: Talking about dead bodies, and you know, people get squeamish 296 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 5: and that sort of thing. So that was his opinion, 297 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 5: and I don't think he understood the magnitude of what 298 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 5: he was refusing to do there. But the point simply 299 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 5: is that here is Harris telling me that the Halt 300 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 5: knew about the craft and the bodies, had seen the 301 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 5: craft and the bodies prior to Walder ever admitting them, 302 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 5: and so that was interesting to me some corroboration that 303 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 5: Walder probably knew more than he had let on. 304 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 4: There are a lot of these little tiny stories and 305 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 4: little comments that to me just fall right into place. 306 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 4: You know, just the fact that this guy says, I 307 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 4: can't talk about that. Well, if you can't talk about it, 308 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 4: there's something there, because. 309 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 5: Well, well when you say you can't talk about it, 310 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 5: you know. We were looking what possibly could have fallen 311 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 5: at Rosweld. They would have been classified at the time, 312 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 5: and the only thing that we really came up was 313 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 5: is since they were the only atomic streank force in 314 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 5: the world, that they may have been practicing with the 315 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 5: atomic bomb. It's an actually dropped one. It would have 316 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 5: been a practice bomb. It wouldn't have detonated, but at 317 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 5: the time the size and the shape of the bomb 318 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 5: was classified, and so that would have triggered the recovery operation. 319 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 5: But we could find no evidence that that was the case. 320 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 5: I laid it all out in a book called Rosmo 321 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 5: the twenty first Century, in great detail. The book actually 322 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 5: has over a thousand footnotes in it. We could talk 323 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 5: about the you know, the Project Mogul explanation for Roswolg, 324 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 5: which is completely bold less. 325 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 4: If you want to do some comedy, go right ahead. 326 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 5: Well, the point simply is we have the documentation and 327 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 5: the culprit is flight number four mobile flight number four. 328 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 5: But it says right in the documentation it didn't fly. Well, 329 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 5: how does it leave debris? The other thing is it 330 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 5: was supposedly launched on June fourth. Brazil doesn't report this 331 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 5: until early July. It laid in the field for a month. 332 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 5: There was so much of this debris that the sheep 333 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 5: refused to cross, so he was interested in getting it 334 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 5: picked up. Had it been a mongo balloon, he could 335 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 5: have done it in twenty minutes by himself. 336 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 4: They would have this so air tight when they released 337 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 4: their third explanation about what happened, that they would cover everything. 338 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 4: And yet there were all these things you uncovered that 339 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 4: showed that it couldn't have been Mogul. 340 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 5: I think the documentation proved the way he said, we 341 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 5: didn't fly today that the flight was canceled. They said 342 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 5: later in the day they flew a cluster of balloons, 343 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 5: and people said, well, we don't know what the cluster 344 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 5: of balloons was. Yes, we do, because the documentation is there. 345 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 5: Sometimes when they couldn't launch the fuller rays, they would 346 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 5: fly in microphone up with a cluster of balloons. It 347 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 5: did not have all these things going with it. The 348 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 5: other thing we discovered and Charles Moore, who was one 349 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 5: of the engineers on MOGOL, told me that flight number 350 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 5: four was configured the same as flight number five. Flight 351 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 5: number five has no ray wind targets. They didn't use 352 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 5: a ray win targets till later in July. So if 353 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 5: flight number four was configured exactly as flight number five 354 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 5: and there were no ray wind targets, what's the debris 355 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 5: being displayed in Ramy's office. Well, here it is the 356 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 5: weather balloon and these raywood targets. Well, clearly it was not. 357 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's incredible that you guys dug that deep. You know. 358 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 4: I'll tell you one time I was with Don Schmidt 359 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 4: and he told me personally how he had talked to 360 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 4: some of these military guys who looked him in the 361 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,959 Speaker 4: eye and broke down crying because they've they said that 362 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 4: they've never talked about this in over fifty years, and 363 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 4: Don personally found that extremely compelling. Do you have any 364 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 4: moments like that regarding the Roswell case that you found 365 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 4: of great interest? 366 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 5: Like I said Edwin Easley, I mean that was to 367 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 5: me was very important. When we were doing the investigation 368 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 5: actively in New Mexico, we were searching for explanations and 369 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 5: we eliminated practically everything that we could. The Air Force report, 370 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 5: by the way, eliminated all those things as well, all 371 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 5: they could come up with Project mogul So. I thank 372 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 5: the Air Force for confirming what we had said and 373 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 5: then coming up with his Coctamami Project mogul So. Lots 374 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 5: of these things. Joe Briley talking about Colonel Blanchard going 375 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 5: on leave and saying that was a blind because you 376 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 5: know he left the base, and that's what Joe Briley 377 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 5: told me. Robert Smith talking about handling some of the 378 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 5: debris and the cleanup operation and how they were creating 379 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 5: these big crates to put the debris in and the 380 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 5: debris had virtually no weight to it. Frankie Rowe, who 381 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 5: was the daughter of the firefighter who handled a piece 382 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 5: of the debris at the Roswell Fire Department and he 383 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 5: told the family how he'd gone out and seen the 384 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,479 Speaker 5: craft and the bodies. I asked the firefighter, what did 385 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 5: you know, Dan Dwyer, and he said immediately to me, oh, yeah, 386 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 5: he went out. He went on his private car. It 387 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,239 Speaker 5: wasn't an official fire run. He went out and saw it. 388 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 5: I think the testimony of the family of Sheriff Wilcox 389 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 5: was important and dynamic about what they were told in 390 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 5: that sort of thing, and looking at the people who 391 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 5: were threatened in some fashion. I know Frankie Rowe, we 392 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 5: were in Roswell. Frankie Rowe was there. We were in 393 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 5: a walver Hotts house and we were doing a radio 394 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 5: interview and the host of the radio show had a 395 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 5: New England accent and that just scared the hell out 396 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 5: of Frankie Rowe because she remembered this officer coming out 397 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 5: to the house, to their house and talking to her 398 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 5: about what she'd seen and talking about if you talk 399 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 5: about this, your parents will end up at Orchard Park, 400 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 5: which had been a prisoner war camp during the Second 401 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 5: World War. You know that sort of thing. But her 402 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 5: reaction just to hearing that New England accent was very 403 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 5: very persuasive. 404 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 4: Those things are all compelling to me. What about these 405 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 4: Weren't there some deathbed confessions from a couple of these guys? 406 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 5: Technically no, because if you look at the legal definition 407 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 5: of deathbed, it has to be confessing to some kind 408 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 5: of illegal activity. That being said of, there were a 409 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 5: number of people who knew time was short and told 410 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 5: friends and family about what they'd had. You could suggest 411 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 5: that with Edwin Easley, for example, as he was in 412 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 5: the hospital he had terminal cancer. I think it was 413 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 5: a granddaughter had bought a cop of Gods in my 414 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 5: book and showed it to him, and he said, oh, 415 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 5: the creatures right right. 416 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 4: And also, wasn't there another guy who left something to 417 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 4: be opened upon his death for his granddaughter? I thought 418 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 4: that he didn't. 419 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 5: Well, Walter Hot's at the David was left to. 420 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 4: Be That's what it was after he died because he 421 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 4: didn't want any of the thing happened while he was alive. 422 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, I would have been unimpressed with that given the circumstances. 423 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 5: Had I talked to Richard Harris about what he'd seen 424 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 5: and he was telling you Walter HoTT knew prior to 425 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 5: Walter HoTT ever mentioning this to any of the rest 426 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 5: of us. I mean, I talked to Walder Hot dozens 427 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 5: of times. I was at his house, We went to dinner, 428 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 5: we did all this sort of thing, and we would 429 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 5: talk about this and he would he would make it clear. 430 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 5: The only thing I did was I wrote the prespidence. 431 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 5: I took the press release to the media. That's all 432 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 5: I did. Later on it came out that with the 433 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 5: out the Davit, it came out that he'd seen and 434 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 5: done a lot more. 435 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 4: Okay, when we come back, we're going to talk to 436 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 4: Kevin Moore about some of the strongest cases that he 437 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 4: knows about in the UFO community. You're listening to be 438 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 4: on contact right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 439 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 4: Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. 440 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: The Artbelvault never disappoints classic audio at your fingertips. Go 441 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: now to Coast tocoastam dot com for full details. 442 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 2: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM 443 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 2: Paranormal podcast network with the best shows that explore the paranormal, supernatural, 444 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 2: and the unexplained. You can enjoy all shows on the 445 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. 446 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 8: My name is Mark Rawlins, president of Paranormal Day dot com. 447 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 8: Over five years ago, George Nori approached me with a 448 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 8: unique concept, a dating site for people searching for someone 449 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 8: with inter sind ufost, ghost, this Bigfoot conspiracy theories, and 450 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 8: the paranormal From that, Paranormal Day dot Com was born. 451 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 8: It's a unique site for unique people and it's free 452 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 8: to join to look around. If you want to upgrade 453 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 8: and enjoy more of our great features, use promo code 454 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 8: George for a great discount. So check it out. You 455 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 8: got nothing to lose Paranormal Day dot com. 456 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 4: We are back on beyond contact. Kevin. I know that 457 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 4: you've been able to discredit or at least diminish a 458 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 4: lot of the credibility of some of these UFO cases. 459 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 4: But after looking at this for Jesus over fifty years now, 460 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 4: what do you feel are some of the strongest cases, 461 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,719 Speaker 4: the ones that have evidence that may actually have an 462 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 4: et explanation. 463 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 5: I owe a default to level Land. I did a 464 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 5: book called clearly called level Land about that. It was 465 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 5: a series of sightings in November nineteen fifty seven, Texas, 466 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 5: which is I was going to say just outside of Lubbock. 467 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 5: I think it's like fifteen twenty miles away from Lobbock. 468 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 5: Dozens of people the sheriff of Hockley County actually said 469 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 5: hundreds of people called him on the night of November 470 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,239 Speaker 5: two into the morning of November third, talking about this 471 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 5: thing flying around the area stalling cars. A number of 472 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 5: people reported as it approached their carge installed there are 473 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 5: headlights went out. The radios were filled with static number 474 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 5: of people reporting that. 475 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 4: And you know, that's a big thing in today's in 476 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 4: the folklore of this is the car dying. We see 477 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 4: it in movies now, But in nineteen fifty seven, that 478 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 4: wasn't known at all, And I think there was more 479 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 4: than just a few people that had that happen, right kevivin. 480 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 5: Oh There were literally dozens of people. But what was 481 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 5: important what I discovered my investigation of the level land case. 482 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 5: The sheriff eventually thought that he should go out and 483 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 5: look for the craft himself, and he is in a 484 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 5: car with a deputy behind him. Is a car with 485 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 5: the Texas Department of Public Safety, which is the state 486 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 5: police following him behind him is a car. We're therefore 487 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 5: officers in it. Originally, the sheriff said that he had 488 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 5: seen football shaped or oval shaped, bright glowing red object. 489 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 5: The Air Force came and interviewed him, and then it 490 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 5: was just just a streak of red in the distance 491 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 5: nine hundred yards away or something like that. Later on, 492 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 5: Don Berliner interviewed him in nineteen seventy five, I think 493 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 5: it is, and the sheriff said, well, I saw this huge, 494 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 5: blowing football shaped object. Now what Don Berlinson found. And 495 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 5: there's an awful lot of dons in this conversation, but 496 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 5: I noticed that Don Berlinson found he was Liz and Rossell. 497 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 5: He went over to Level lad to investigate. Talk to 498 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 5: the sheriff's wife also talked to the police mechanic in 499 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 5: nineteen fifty seven. The mechanics said, well, the day after 500 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 5: the sheriff had gone out, he came in and wanted 501 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 5: his car looked at, see if there was any mechanical problems. 502 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 5: I'm thinking the only reason he would have done it 503 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 5: is he got close enough to this object that his 504 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 5: car stalled, and if his car stalled, the car behind 505 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 5: him stalled, and the car behind that with the Air 506 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,719 Speaker 5: Force Office installed. Don keyho another Dawn for you, of 507 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 5: the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, was arguing the 508 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 5: Air Force and said, well, he'd talked to nine witnesses 509 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 5: who'd seen the object. You go to the Air Force file, 510 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 5: you can find I think thirteen names. You look at 511 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 5: newspapers and you find a whole bunch of other people 512 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 5: who are involved in this, and then the final piece 513 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 5: of the puzzle is the next day or a day 514 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 5: or two later, he was visiting with a friend who 515 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 5: owned a ranch in the level Land area and they 516 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 5: found a big, long, circular bird area on the ranch 517 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 5: that hadn't been there, which means the thing touched down. 518 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 5: So we have a landing trace, we have the interaction 519 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 5: with the environment. We have dozens of witnesses, including a 520 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 5: law enforcement military people from the other end of the spectrum. 521 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 5: I mean, a whole range of witnesses who talked about this. 522 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 5: So I think the level Land case is very important 523 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 5: because there's nothing in our inventory that would cause cars 524 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 5: to stall that way. The Condon Committee, the alleged Scientific 525 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 5: Investigation Unidentified Flying Objects. If you look at their final report, 526 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 5: they mentioned level Land twice, once saying that they didn't 527 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 5: bother to investigate because they would have had to look 528 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 5: for the cars, and it was too long ago and 529 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 5: they just couldn't do it, although they looked at other 530 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 5: cases that were as old as that, and then they 531 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 5: said they could think of no mechanism in which you 532 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 5: would introduce an electromagnetic field that would still a car 533 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 5: engine and when you remove that field, the engine would 534 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 5: start spontaneously. And I got to looking at that. So 535 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 5: I'm looking at all these reports. Mark Rodicker did a 536 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 5: monograph on thank four hundred and fifty eight engine stallings 537 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 5: from the nineteen oh nine was the first one and 538 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 5: it went up to nineteen eighty five. So I think 539 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 5: that's a very important case. 540 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think it gets in a notoriety that 541 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 4: it deserves. What about shag Harber. 542 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 5: Which took place in nineteen sixty eight while the Condon 543 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 5: Committee was working. They may have been limited by what 544 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 5: they could do based on the contract they signed shag 545 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 5: Harber being in Canada as opposed to the United States, 546 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 5: so it may be outside there the limits of their 547 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 5: contract to do that. But I'm thinking, I'm a scientists 548 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 5: and suddenly I've got this case where the thing plunged 549 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 5: into the lake. There's a photograph of the thing in 550 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 5: the air. People who saw after plunging the lake their 551 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 5: fishing boats got out there and they saw the yellowish 552 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 5: subjects on the surface of the water. The thing was 553 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 5: detected on the bottom of Shape Harbor eventually disappeared, carloads 554 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 5: of document. Chris Styles and Don Ledger another DoD for 555 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 5: crying in a bucket. Don Ledger investigated in depth beyond 556 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 5: Ledger wrote a book called Dark Object. I think it was. 557 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 5: It's about sharing Harvard case. It's very important case because 558 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 5: here is something again where there were multiple witnesses, there 559 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 5: were other chains of evidence, there was large law enforcement involved, 560 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 5: there was military involved, all that sort of thing going on. 561 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 5: So it's a very important case. 562 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 4: Do you have another case that you maybe think is credible, 563 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 4: that maybe we haven't heard of the. 564 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 5: Lou Alessandro mentioned in his book about some kind of 565 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 5: event in Sioux City, Iowa. They saw an object basically fall. 566 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 5: They went to the state park and found a puddle 567 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 5: of blowing molten metal. In his book, he doesn't really 568 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 5: tell us much about it other than mention the case. 569 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 5: So I did some in depth research to see where 570 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 5: it went. There's a scientific paper that I found. The 571 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 5: metal is basically an alloy that could have been produced 572 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 5: in the Sioux City area by a couple of foundries there. 573 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 5: It wasn't detailed enough or it wasn't strange enough to 574 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 5: suggest an extraterrestrial component, but it also doesn't eliminate that. 575 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 5: My biggest fear has always been something like this happening 576 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 5: where we have an actual, legitimate piece of a flying saucer. 577 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 5: I mean, we've got something real, it's extra crestrial origin. 578 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 5: We take it in the laboratory to have an anime sis. Yeah, 579 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 5: it's aluminum. You know, what do you do? Then it's 580 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 5: there's nothing that distinguishes it from some. 581 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 4: Point with aluminum by them, right. 582 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 5: Yeah. 583 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 4: Well, the other thing is those pieces tend to go missing. 584 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 4: That's the other frustrating thing that I deal with all 585 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 4: the time. When you hear that, well, I. 586 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 5: Think part of that. In the Arismal case, of course, 587 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 5: there was an effort by the miller to collect all 588 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 5: that material, and so you have that sort of thing 589 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 5: going on. Well, the book Level Land has some of 590 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 5: those smaller cases in it. My focus was on level 591 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 5: Land sightings, but there was a sighting at White Sands 592 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 5: as a matter of fact, later that night by two 593 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 5: MPs that the Air Force rode off as I think 594 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 5: the moon. But I talked to one of the MPs 595 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 5: and he was telling me how the thing had come 596 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,479 Speaker 5: down and it was below the horizon and there were 597 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 5: mountains in the background, and the thing was it was 598 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 5: one hundred yards away and it was below the horizon, 599 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 5: but clearly it wasn't the moon. November third, the next night, 600 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 5: two more MPs saw something in the same area and 601 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 5: the Air Force rote it off as venus or vice versa, 602 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 5: one the way or the other. When the Air Force 603 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 5: declassified the Project Blue Book files or the parts that 604 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 5: were classified before they released him into the public arena, 605 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 5: they redacted all the names from the master index. There's 606 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 5: twelve thousand cases and there's problem twenty thousand names, and 607 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 5: they redacted all the names from that. But they didn't 608 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 5: know a very good job at that. Bob Cornette and 609 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 5: I went to the Nactual Air Force base prior to 610 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 5: the Air Force releasing him to the National Archives. So 611 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 5: we saw the index with the names in it, and 612 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 5: the first thing we did was go through it and 613 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 5: we wrote down the names of everybody involved in an 614 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 5: identified case or a photographic case or a physical evidence case. 615 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 5: So we had those names. I think Don Berleinard had 616 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 5: something similar when he had an opportunity the case, but 617 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 5: when they were released to the National Archives, they redacted 618 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 5: all the names. A guy in Ohio doing a bizarre thing. 619 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 5: He would go to Craigslist and look for anything UFO oriented. 620 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 5: There was somebody would put up a box of material 621 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 5: about UFO. So he spent one hundred dollars about the box. 622 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 5: In it he found an unreacted version of the index. 623 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 5: So now we have all the names again. The other 624 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 5: thing I wanted to say is if you go through 625 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 5: the case found normally you could find the names of 626 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 5: the people. And I just thought of the case. There 627 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 5: was a case from April of nineteen fifty two and 628 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 5: the Air Force wrote it off as single witness and 629 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 5: a hoax, and you go to the Project Blue Book 630 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 5: files and they've got the date wrong. Barry Greenwood sent 631 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 5: me copies of newspaper articles from that time. The actual 632 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 5: sighting was on April fifteenth, I think it was. And 633 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 5: then there's names of four witnesses unrelated to one another, 634 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 5: who saw the same thing. So here's this wonderful case 635 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 5: from Maryland with elecromagnetic effects and this thing going on, 636 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 5: and the Air Force boughts the investigation. I put something 637 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 5: up on my blog about that, so you can take 638 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 5: a look at it. A lot of other stuff. 639 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 4: Cars, there's a lot of stuff there. Listen. When we 640 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 4: come back, we're going to talk to Kevin and get 641 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 4: his thoughts about Arrow and some of these government reports. 642 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 4: He's been talking about blue Book. We're going to ask 643 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 4: him what he thinks of those. You're listening to Beyond 644 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 4: Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal 645 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 4: podcast Network. 646 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 2: The Internet is an extraordinary resource that links our children 647 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 2: to a world of information, experiences, and ideas. It can 648 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,479 Speaker 2: also expose them to risk. Teach your children the basic 649 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 2: safety rules of the virtual world. Our children are everything. 650 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 2: Do everything for them. 651 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 6: On the iHeartRadio and am Parol podcast network. Listen anytime, 652 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 6: any place. 653 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 2: Hi, this is Sandra Champlain. Ever wonder what happens when 654 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 2: we die? Well, I'm going to make it easier for 655 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 2: you to understand. Join me for my show Shades of 656 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 2: the Afterlife. New shows come out every Friday, so I'll 657 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 2: be looking for you right here on the iHeartRadio and 658 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 2: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 659 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 4: We are back on Beyond Contact and we're talking with 660 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,720 Speaker 4: Kevin Randall. Kevin, what are your thoughts on this Aerrow report? 661 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 5: There was a report you classified as a report. 662 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 4: Well, they did mean this. I classified it as comedy. 663 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 4: But you tell me what you think of it. 664 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 5: Well, the first report that came out a number of 665 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 5: years ago, I would have said it was like a 666 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 5: C minus high school report. It was so badly done. 667 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 5: It was like eleven pages and it just didn't really 668 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 5: tell us anything. The sixty four page report, we've all 669 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 5: gone through it. I mean we in the UFO community 670 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 5: had gone through it, and we found loads of the stakes. 671 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 5: The history is wrong. I guess you could call it 672 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 5: Condon two point zero, designed to dissuade people from looking 673 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 5: into the UFO fighting. So we've looked at all these 674 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 5: cases and we found explanations for all of them. But 675 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 5: want or something like that, it's just just absolutely ludicrous. 676 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 4: It's just kind of followed up with sign Grunge blue Book. 677 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 4: All of them. Don't you think that they're all absolutely? 678 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 5: Absolutely? And that was my point. I said, Condon two 679 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 5: point zero because here's a scientific report outside the Air 680 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 5: Force chain of command. You know when you talk about 681 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 5: Sign and Grudge and Blue Book and then Moondust and 682 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 5: some of the other projects, those are all military arnt it. 683 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 5: The Condon Committee was a civilian job put up by 684 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 5: the Air Force. They paid I think we ended up 685 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 5: at five hundred and fifty thousand dollars for the report. 686 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 5: The embessing with the Condon Report, I have to get 687 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 5: this in prior to them beginning the investigation. It was 688 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 5: a letter from Lieutenant Colonel Robert Hipler to doctor Robert 689 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 5: Lowe of the Condobumitty, and Hipper says, here with what 690 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 5: we'd like you to find when you do your investigation. 691 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 5: Air Force did a good job of investigating. There's no 692 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 5: national security interest in these things. Further scientific study is 693 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 5: not going to provide anything. So he might as well 694 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 5: close Blue Book and low and behold when they finish it, 695 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:14,720 Speaker 5: that's exactly what they found. 696 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 4: Wow, what a surprise. Ending to their scientific investigation. 697 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 5: Condon was in according to New York talking to a 698 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 5: group of engineers and he tells them, yeah, I don't 699 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 5: think there's anything to this, but I'm not supposed to 700 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 5: come to this conclusion for another eighteen months. I mean, 701 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 5: when you look at the history of the investigations, official investigations, 702 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 5: it's all basically the same. You know, there's nothing to it. 703 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 5: We should do anything. 704 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 4: I was just going to say, what are your thoughts 705 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 4: on louil Is Isando? You mentioned him earlier. 706 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 5: I read his book. I was disappointed because he really 707 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 5: tells us nothing about the UFO investigation, our UAP investigation 708 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 5: that we didn't already know. The one thing he did 709 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 5: do that I found interesting in his book was he 710 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 5: laid out in a after the whole Nimtz sightings events 711 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 5: in a chronological order, and I hadn't seen anything as 712 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 5: detailed as that elsewhere. An awful lot of his book 713 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 5: is about his experiences with the military, the infighting and 714 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 5: political nature of duty in the Pentagon. 715 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 4: Hey, let me ask you this, what are your thoughts 716 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 4: on David Grosh. 717 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 5: I'm as close to this stuff as he is. He 718 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 5: doesn't know anything that I don't know. I was upset, worried, 719 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 5: concerned when he mentioned the Italian crash from nineteen thirty three, 720 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 5: which colleagues in Italy who had investigated in the nineteen 721 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 5: ninety says it's a hoax, which makes me wonder about 722 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 5: the credibility of his sources. He does mention Roswell. I 723 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 5: also did a thing on my blog where I speculated 724 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 5: what the ten other crashes that he didn't talk about. 725 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 5: Some of this has come up in other discussions that 726 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 5: suggest I'm on the right track, and I've been able 727 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 5: to connect Grush with Lou Alizondo. In his own book, 728 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,280 Speaker 5: he talks about David Grush, and I think he puts 729 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 5: him in the room with Christopher Mellon, and we know 730 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 5: what mellen has talked about in the way of crashes, 731 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 5: so we can kind of put this information together. So 732 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 5: I think he is reporting accurately what he has heard 733 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 5: from people he respected, who had high level jobs in 734 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 5: the government at some point or may have been observers 735 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 5: of these craft. But he doesn't He didn't see anything himself, 736 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,280 Speaker 5: He didn't handle any of the debris, He wasn't involved 737 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 5: in any of the ellected retrievals. And I, you know, 738 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 5: Don Schmid, Tom Carrey and I can say the same thing. 739 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 5: So when I say that we've talked to people who 740 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 5: saw the bodies, we talked to people who were involved 741 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 5: with the retrieval operation. We talked to people who were 742 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 5: threatened by the military, so we're as close to this 743 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 5: as brush is. He just didn't tell me anything that 744 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 5: I didn't already know. The same thing with lou Alessandro's book, 745 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 5: when you get away from the politics in the Pentagon, 746 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 5: which I wasn't familiar with, having never served in the Pentagon, 747 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,439 Speaker 5: but understanding the security procedure, But when you get away 748 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 5: from that, you get into the UFO aspect of it 749 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 5: or the UAP aspect of it. He didn't really provide 750 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 5: any information we didn't know. He mentioned he mentioned Kexsburg, 751 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 5: the UFO craft, the Kexsburg in his book, but it's 752 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 5: in relation to Leslie King's investigation into that. But that's it. 753 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 5: He's just you know, Leslie Kane was involved with NASA 754 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 5: the or sued NASA about the Kexburg crash. No idea 755 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 5: what that means if you're outside the field and you're 756 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 5: not well versed in it. December ninth, nineteen sixty five 757 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 5: event where Stan Gordon says there was an object that 758 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 5: crashed near Kexsburgh in the military retrieved him, but he 759 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 5: doesn't go into that. So with his book, there was 760 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 5: really nothing in there that was an interest to me 761 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 5: as an investigator view I follows, But I just found 762 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 5: nothing in David Rush's testimony that I found particularly persuasive 763 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 5: that I didn't already know. And I could say the 764 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 5: thing about lua Arozandro's book, right right. 765 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 4: So, Kevin, what kind of pace are you on? Is it? 766 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 4: Is it two books a day that you write? Is 767 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 4: that about the pace you're doing these books? 768 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 5: Ashley, I'm only writing one at the current time because 769 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 5: it's very confusing. It's going to take a major rewrite. 770 00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 5: I have a series of action venture novels and four 771 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 5: of them are done, and I've been struggling with the 772 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 5: fifth one. 773 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 4: But it's how much you've written. Do you have a 774 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 4: favorite book of all your books, or one you're most 775 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 4: proud of? Perhaps? 776 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 5: Well, I always point to the Leveland book because it's 777 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 5: kind of outside the mainstream of upology, but it's an 778 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 5: in depth look at that case, and I think that's 779 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 5: an important boot And I think Roswold in the twenty 780 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 5: first century is fun because people have told me that 781 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,879 Speaker 5: the footnotes are more fun than the text because there's 782 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 5: all this ansellor reinformation stuck in there. 783 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,399 Speaker 4: It's a lot of work, but it's important work. 784 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 5: Yeah. But I've done a lot of books in a 785 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 5: Vietnam Brown Zero series that you go on Amazon. Look 786 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 5: by Eric Kell by the way for those Eric Helm. 787 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 4: Yeah your surname there, you have another surname. Don't you 788 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 4: have another name? Remember? 789 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 5: And I was Cat Brandigan, I was Steve McKinsey, it 790 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 5: was James Butler Bonham. Most of all of that stuff 791 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 5: is now being published under the pseudonym of Eric Helm. 792 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,760 Speaker 5: I did a science fiction novel called The Interplanetary Defense 793 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 5: for IDF, not realizing that I was stabling the name 794 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 5: from the Israelis. This is not a bad thing, you know, 795 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 5: but it's slightly different, and that just came out to 796 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,799 Speaker 5: science fiction novel I think is kind of fun. And 797 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 5: I did a book called On the Second Tuesday of 798 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 5: Next Week is a time travel novel. Oh and remember 799 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 5: the Alamo, where a group of mercenaries are sent back 800 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 5: to Texas to win the Battle of the Animal. So 801 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 5: you got thirty guys, actually men and women go back 802 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 5: to modern weapons and they managed to break up the 803 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 5: Mexican funnel attack on the Alamo and a matter of 804 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 5: minutes at one point one of the mercenaries is trying 805 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 5: to pick off the Mexican officers at a at a 806 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 5: thousand yards, and Travis says to him, you know that 807 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 5: way outside your ranges. Don't worry about it. We can 808 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 5: do that. It's a lot of fun stuff in that 809 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 5: book too, So there's a lot of books. 810 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 4: I can't believe how much you write. That's fantastic. I really, 811 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,879 Speaker 4: we all really appreciate all the work you've done. 812 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 5: I stopped counting at one hundred and fifty books. 813 00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,919 Speaker 4: Jesus. Not only does he write a book a day, 814 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 4: he also has his blog, which is Kevin Randall dot 815 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 4: blogspot dot com. You can hear him every week on 816 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 4: Thursday or Friday night on Coast to Coast AM. Kevin, 817 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 4: thanks a lot for coming on. 818 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 5: Its three to five minutes on Coast to Coast AM 819 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,799 Speaker 5: doing an update of what's going on, talking about like 820 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 5: what's going on in the UFO field, and always some 821 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 5: kind of an interesting siding as well. 822 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 4: It's great, it's great. Please check out the website of 823 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,879 Speaker 4: the ANHHANS organization, the New Paradigm Institute dot org, as 824 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 4: they're doing incredible work moving our knowledge on this topic 825 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 4: forward as well. We'll be back next week with an 826 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 4: all new episode. You can follow me Captain Ron on 827 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 4: Twitter and Instagram at CITD Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected 828 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 4: by checking out Contact in the Desert dot com. Stay 829 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 4: open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right 830 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 4: here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 831 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 4: Podcast Networks. 832 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 833 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: A and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 834 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 835 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com