WEBVTT - Bread and Today’s Battle for Justice 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:05.960 My name is Eva Longoria and I am mate remez 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:10.760 Racon and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.760 explores our past and present through food. On every episode, 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.160 we'll talk about the history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:18.799 and beverages from our culture. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:22.080 So make yourself at home, even broche. 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:26.440 Hi. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.440 Everyone, Welcome back to Hungry for History. We're doing things 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.160 a little bit differently today. We have a very special guest, Clements, 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:37.840 salutes from the Santa Monica Bakery Petit Grand bou Lingerie. 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.080 Clements is a dear friend. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.440 Not only is she a dear friend, she's a baker 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.200 whose work reminds us that bread has always been about 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:50.919 much more than just nourishment. Through her careful sourcing, meticulous process, 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.040 and her presence in the community, she taps into Bread's 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:58.560 long history of labor care and quiet revolution, and The 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.720 New York Times said that eating one of her croissants 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.280 felt like inhaling warm buttery aroma. 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:07.679 Welcome Clemons. 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:10.160 I'm so happy to be here. I miss you. 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:12.080 I miss you too. 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.200 I was seeing you so I wanted to talk to 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.280 you because first of all, you're the best baker and 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.720 just one of the best humans that I know. You're 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:22.160 one of the first people that I met when I 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:24.440 moved to LA and it's like, I see you and 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.720 I just want to hug you, But I really wanted 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:29.399 to talk to you about you know, because you're so 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.120 passionate about what you do, and bread has always carried 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:38.480 so much meaning far beyond the bakery, especially in moments 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:41.399 of tension, of social tension, and we're living one of 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.480 these moments in the US now. It's the first week 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:48.680 of February. We're in the midst of intense national unrest. 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.440 On January thirtieth, which was just last Friday, there was 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.880 a coordinated national strike, widespread protests around the country in 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.880 response to everything that's going on with ICE, you know, Minneapolis, 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.840 the fatal shootings, kidnappings, you know, no new processes, et cetera, 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:09.760 et cetera, like so much. Many businesses closed in solidarity, 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:14.840 but Mariny small businesses stayed open with intention, and you 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:16.640 were one of these businesses. 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.160 So so what did that look like to you? 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.400 What values guided this choice, and how did your community respond? 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.520 So it was not an easy decision to decide to 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.320 stay open. I have a deep respect for bakeries like 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.560 Proof who decided to close, and I can understand how 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.000 they came to that decision, and I one hundred percent 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.720 support everybody who did close and actually feel like it 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.639 was an incredibly brave and courageous thing to do. When 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.960 I was thinking about what to do, I called a 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.480 couple of other small business owners, all the bakery and 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:51.000 restaurant owners, and then did some deep thinking about what 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:56.320 it meant to strike, who we were striking against, how 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.560 the strike was organized, and the reasons why, and then 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.480 how that would impact the community and our staff. Number 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.200 One is, when I think about a strike, I'm thinking 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:12.000 about striking against something that is like systematically unfair and unjust, 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:17.320 and striking for the sake of striking, and not hitting 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.200 an organization, a system, or a business that is harming 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.040 people Like I wanted to be more intentional. If we 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:29.560 were striking against a particular entity that was very specific, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.679 it would have made a really big impact. But I 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.520 felt like the small businesses of our community have taken 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:39.280 the brunt of so much in the last eighteen months, 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:45.400 between the fires and the economy and a variety of factors. 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:47.560 It just felt like all of us small businesses who 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.320 were deciding and kind of being pitted against by some 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.480 trolls against each other for deciding to strike or not 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:55.760 to strike, to open, not to open. It just felt like, 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.560 why are we taking the brunt of this when our 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.280 workers are the most vulnerable were our owners are the 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.520 most vulnerable owners economically speaking, And if we're closing, we 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.000 are also closing the impact of conversation and the reason 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:12.800 why we have hospitality. For me, hospitality is a deeply 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:20.080 political business. We are here to create discussion and community 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.320 and treat people, make them feel good, and have them 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.760 come in and understand our process, why we do it 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.160 and why that's impactful. And I don't mean political as 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.640 in red and blue. I mean political in the way 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.800 that every business decision you make has a really deep impact, 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:40.480 just like every customer's purchases have a really deep impact 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:45.080 on our society culturally, economically, and politically speaking. And so 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.760 by staying open, I felt like I was staying really 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.719 true to that. Meaning if we lost a really busy day, 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:55.160 that would impact our purchasing from the farmer's markets. And 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.760 if we lost today, it would mean you know, I 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.880 could have closed and paid the employee they're hourly wage, 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:02.760 but I could not have afforded to pay them the 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.440 twenty five percent of their income that they get from tips, 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.080 and it just didn't feel fair to put that burden 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.240 on our workers in la or in the business owners 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.120 that are dealing with a shit time right now. To 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.359 be perfectly honest, this is a very difficult climate to 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:20.800 be a small business owner in. And when we make, 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.840 you know, donations to organizations, it's not like Walmart that's 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:30.200 getting a massive tax break. We're doing this because it has, 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.200 you know, a deep meaning and impact for us. And 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.520 while it does affect our bottom line, I think it 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:39.080 creates a conversation and a stance that our community can 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.240 get involved in. So by deciding to give away ten 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.599 percent of gross sales, which is really our margins, to 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:50.640 certain organizations, we were taking a stance and for me 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:56.760 having a larger impact on taking part in writing some 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:02.520 wrongs rather than closing and essentially closing the conversation. 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.800 I love the image that you posted on social media 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.320 when you announced that you would be staying open. That 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.080 was the fist holding the bread the baggat. 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:13.760 So I can't take credit for that image. There are 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.360 a few of us other female business owners who were 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:21.840 talking right before we all decided to stay open and 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:26.039 crafted that image just to collaboratively with the wording to 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:32.080 try to explain our reasons for staying open. And again, 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:36.200 it wasn't easy, but but we were you know, we 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:40.080 were so committed to getting the communities to understand why 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.480 we were staying open in a really positive way. And 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.400 you know, I had a lot of trolls. We lost 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.480 some customers really really uh huh yeah, oh wow. 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:50.200 Interesting. 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:56.160 But you know, you can't please everyone, and and you know, 0:06:56.400 --> 0:07:00.359 we can explain it all we can, but but in 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.560 the end, you know, we we had to make decisions 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.400 for our businesses and our staff and all of the 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:10.640 vendors that are affected. You know, when you strike or 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:15.000 when you close, or when there's fires and where there's emergencies, 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:20.560 it's the reverberated effects that are really impactful, and it typically, 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.040 you know, goes down to the most vulnerable people in 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.200 our communities. It's the people who are fixing our equipment, 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.720 who are farming for our produce. 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:32.720 So that's where that came from. It's tied to the 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:34.600 French resistance. I was like, oh, this is so common, 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.640 So I love that. It's all you know, women that 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.280 women bakers that you said that were that were this 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.760 because it was like the women that marched into Versailles. 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.480 And it's just like it's such a powerful image and 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.840 it's so simple, like there's it's the hand and the 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:50.880 and the bread. We're not this was not just a 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:55.960 financial decision, like we are angry and for us, sometimes 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.920 resistance means like making economic choices that are very. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:02.960 Very well thought through. 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.560 Yeah, yeah, you have this like this lineage right, this 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.960 because you had your background also your family was in 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:14.040 the hospitality business, wasn't right, And it's like so you 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:18.760 have this like this resistance in your DNA this right, 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.600 and it's like it's part, it's part. So you said 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.320 that you lost some customers and you've had some trolls 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.360 like if someone had never thought about bread as political, 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.560 what would you want them to notice differently, Like what 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:34.360 would you want them to learn from this? 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:36.920 I say, just turn it around. 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.920 Your purchasing decisions have a great deal of impact on 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.720 the communities that you live in, and so if you're 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.000 going to boycott a business and turn around and buy 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.600 something on Amazon, then perhaps you should really think about 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:53.280 like your everyday daily choices and how they affect labor, 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.560 how they affect sourcing, how they affect the environment. Those 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:58.800 are bigger conversations that we need to have as a 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:06.440 culture because they're all so impactful. And if we lost customers, 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.360 oh well, you know, I think the overwhelming support and 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.400 the fact that our sales went up and we were 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.400 able to donate so much is more impactful than the 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:20.000 people that we lost. But yeah, like when you buy bread, 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:25.280 everyone listening, you are making a vote for the kind 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:30.160 of economy and society that you may not realize you 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.960 are participating in. So you know, when you're buying most 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.840 of your food at a very large scale grocery store, 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.960 I just need you to understand a few things. Number 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.440 one is the margins are very very tiny, very small, 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.560 and the people who pay for that are the people 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.200 who are making your food. So let's take a jar 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:51.760 of salsa for example. When you buy a jar of 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.240 salsa and it's on sale and it's two dollars off, 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.079 it is not like a collaboration between the grocery store 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.840 and like the coupon market. It is the producer of 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.480 the salsa that is paying for that. In addition to 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.160 paying for that, they're paying for slotting fees, which are 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.640 the fees that allow you to be more eye level 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:13.080 and in the center of the display that you're seeing. 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.720 And it is reverberated through lowering the cost of producing 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.200 that salsa. So it means if you are with a copacker, 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.240 which is a company that manufactures your products for you 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.720 so you can sell it at a very low price 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.840 and take advantage of some production savings, it means that 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:34.000 you're going to save a few cents per jar by 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.160 switching to the supplier that they have made a deal 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:43.520 with for say the the tomatoes that they are using 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.920 in the salsa, or if they don't want things to 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.520 separate in your salad dressing, it's the xanthem gum, which 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.840 is made from corn that is used to keep it 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.240 from separating so that you don't have to shake the 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:58.720 bottle well before using. These are all like reverberated things 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:02.640 that affect the people who are growing your food, making 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.160 your food, packing your food, and making the biggest business 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:06.600 decisions in the food world. 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.800 You used to run the Gormandis School of Cooking school, 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.760 and I used to teach there, so yes, I know, 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.440 I loved I love that place, and I've been to 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.280 the Santa Monica Farmer's Market with you, so I know 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:32.640 firsthand you live and breathe this. I mean, this is 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.679 how you you run your businesses, this is how you 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:40.360 live your life. And the sourcing is just so important 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.720 to you. You're so committed to this because you just 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:43.439 explained it. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:44.680 Just it's the it's the. 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.320 Whole ladder shopping at farmers' markets is It's not just 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.640 like a fun, cool hipster thing that you know, it's 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:52.880 kind of taken on, but it is a political statement 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.400 and it is not convenient, and it does take time 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.160 out of your day, but it has an impact. Like 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:03.559 when you know, I had kids really young, and I 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.240 had wick and you know, like before this the EBT, 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.959 the food stamp situation, and I remember feeling like I'm 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.839 using this federal money that has been set aside by 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.280 the farm bill to pay a farmer directly rather than 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:22.120 taking it to a big box grocery store. And that 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:29.320 felt really impactful and that, you know, and nobody sort 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:34.000 of wants to be in that position where they are 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.720 wondering where to get like the best quality produce for 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.080 your kids and doing the best that you can. But 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.520 I think that we are lulled just in this false 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.160 sense of everything should be easy and we have a 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.160 right for everything to be so clean and simple and 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.880 convenient all the time. Like that's really I think lulled 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:58.960 us into a false sense of complacency rather than activism. 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.480 So you have I remember walking through the farmer's market 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.840 with you, and all of the farmers were like, hey, climak, 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.760 everyone you knew, you knew everyone, and everyone came up 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.760 to you, and it was so it was like such 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.800 a community. I love it so And yeah, that I 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.880 feel like that ends up in your menu, your relationship 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.120 with you know, the farmer, with the with the miller, 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.440 with that. You know, everything just ends up, you know, 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:25.840 ends up in that. And actually, and it also must 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.600 be difficult, right, and in a sense is it? 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.240 Or maybe it's not. You're running your business harder or no. 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:37.480 It's just it's no, okay. So here's the story going back. 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.000 So my grandparents had a restaurant with a little bit 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:41.680 I was like in the middle of nowhere in France, 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.280 and then my father ended up running it for a 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.839 while and and so in the summers I would go 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.400 and work with them, you know, like I was nine 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.320 or ten or whatever, and like running the lice cream 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.800 cart or you know, making cakes, and and I would 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.920 go outsourcing with my grandfather and then my dad. You know, 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.400 we'd go down and get all our produce and you know, 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:08.400 directly from the farmers or the growers. And then we 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.120 went to go pick up goat cheese. One day and 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.280 we went to this woman's farm where we source all 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.000 our goat cheese from. And I remember we had just 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:17.640 been to the big box store to pick up things 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:19.800 like chocolate, and I remember seeing the prices of the 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:21.600 goat cheese. And then we went to her farm, and 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:23.120 you know, I was probably in my early teens, and 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.640 I was like, wow, cheese is so much more expensive. 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.120 And He's like yeah, but you know, if we don't 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.720 get cheese from her, like she will lose her farm 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:32.760 and she will no longer be our neighbor. It was 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:34.680 kind of one of those like eye opening things that 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:38.600 I was like, oh, I okay, that makes sense. Yeah, 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.720 And that's how I feel about sourcing at the market. Like, yes, 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.160 we drive a little out of the way or bike 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.720 a little out of the way or whatever to get 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.200 our stuff, but then people in our community who we 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.680 love and we cherish get to stay in there and 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.680 be a part of it and recirculate that money close by, 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.280 rather than you know, going off to some li large 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:04.680 conglomerate somewhere that we don't know their practices, or we 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:06.240 do and we don't like it, but we feel like, oh, 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.680 it's easier, so let me just do this because it's easier. 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.200 So shopping at the farmer's market has always been a 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.960 part of sourcing for that reason, but also because of flavor. Right, 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.400 Like when we shop at the market, like our berries 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.760 were picked forty eight hours before and they were picked 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.200 at their peak of ripeness. So I hear all the 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:25.920 time like, yeah, it's a little more expensive. I'm like, well, 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.600 let's talk about strawberries. Right, So if you go to 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.680 Costco and you get strawberries, I'd say like fifteen to 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.120 twenty percent of that berry is white at the collar, 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.000 it's picked way before it's ripe, it doesn't have any 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:42.160 really high sugar content. But then you end up throwing 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.640 away fifteen percent of that berry when you're hauling out 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.600 the inside because you just want the flavor of it. Right, 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:49.680 Like if I'm making jam, or if I'm using berries 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.280 for garnish, but when I'm getting at a farmer's market, 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.120 it was picked at its peak of ripeness. So it 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:59.280 might look more expensive upfront, but the flavor and the 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.160 quality is just a mess. 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:07.600 Oh yeah, it's so interesting because it's so it's so obvious, right, Oh, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.240 if you go straight to the source and then that source, 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.320 that person can then have a livelihood, and then yeah, 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.200 I charge a little bit more, but then you know 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.760 what's going into your body, and you don't have all 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.440 sorts of GMOs or all sorts of whatever going into 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.160 your body, and you're gonna be healthier because then you're 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.360 not gonna end up having to see a doctor. 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.440 Blah blah blah. It's just it goes on and on. 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:29.520 So so I love it. 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.000 I love talking to one of the millers that we 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.640 work with, and for years it's like it's so hard 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.080 to push whole grains on people, so I like, don't 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.640 lead with that. I just say put it in their 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.640 mouth and then they're like like why is this so good? 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:44.080 And you're like it's got a whole grains, Like, oh 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:45.880 I don't like holy flower. I'm like, okay, well it's 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.560 because there's ten thousand different types of whole wheat in 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.600 the world, and when you're at the grocery store, you're 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.520 just tasting too, right, Is that true? 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.280 It's only two at the grocery store hard read. 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.800 When you buy bread flour, it's always made from a 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.440 heart red wheat when you buy sorry, which it is, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.000 But when you're buying whole wheat flour, it just says 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.400 whole wheat flour. And it's always like a hard red wheat, 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.800 which is really lovely. It's really high in tannins, and 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.480 it's really intense, and it's a very thirsty kind of grain, 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.760 which means that your products are going to require more 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:19.960 liquid or just be drier because you might not know 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:24.480 to adjust. And it's really intense. It like a burgundy, 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.960 like a red wine. And when I'm playing with other 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.320 kinds of whole grains, like my favorite is spelt, I 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:35.200 think about different flavor profiles and the fact that spelt, 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.440 for example, has just a slightly nutty flavor and it's 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.800 not as thirsty, it's more extensible, it creates a more 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.840 tender crumb, and it has a totally different flavor profile. 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:50.359 So I think that as we broaden our ideas and 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:56.719 think less about maybe just taking things for granted and 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:02.000 become more like slightly more critical thinkers or be more curious. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.880 That's when we experience the greatest amount of like, oh, 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.040 you know, surprise too. I enjoyment. 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.880 So what responsibility do you think food businesses have right now, 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.160 given climate change and inequality? 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:26.760 What would you say? 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.119 I think it's it's a little bit of unfair question. 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.520 I would reframe it maybe because when I think about 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.280 the responsibility, I feel like I want to put it 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:39.880 on the consumer, because my responsibility is to make payroll 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:44.080 and make rent and create a business that's economically sustainable 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.119 so that even in hard months, like no employee has 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.720 to get their hours cut, right, So it's about like 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:54.000 that's my responsibility as a business owner. On the flip 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.639 side of that, I am a consumer as well, and 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.760 so I try to model what I think that I 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:05.359 need my customers to do, which is to favor purchasing 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:09.280 directly and then like enjoying products as quickly as they 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:14.520 come out. Right. So I think when people are like, oh, 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.440 your question is like it's so good and I'm really 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.760 really proud of it, But I think it's because it 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.160 has some whole grain flour in it, and people don't 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.040 expect that, and they you know, they're like, I can't 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.439 point to why I like it this way, and some 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:32.840 people don't like it to be perfectly fair. But all 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.159 of that just comes from sourcing, right. So then my 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:40.000 responsibility as a baker or like a creative is to 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.960 make the best product possible, to get people to you know, 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.359 have joy and want to come back and support it, 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.679 and make it less price conscious, but more about the experience. 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.120 If bred was a revolutionary tool in seventeen eighty nine, what. 0:19:55.240 --> 0:20:02.760 Is it today? Great question, I would say, yeah, wheat 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:07.760 and corn products, because the French Revolution was really about taxation, right, 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:13.359 and what do our tax dollars go more towards rather 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:17.919 than the Defense Department? It is the Farm bill. And 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:22.120 two really big, highly subsidized crops that are really important 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:25.600 to our diet are wheat and corn. So corn, tortillas 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:26.040 and bread. 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:31.520 Let's go okay, yeah, corn is in the news. Corns 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:32.440 are in the news now. 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:37.440 Yeah, fullic acidermapolic acid, yeah, yeah, Okay, whole other conversation, 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:41.080 We could have a whole other hour, whole other hour. 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:43.639 Oh my gosh, so much to think about. Thank you 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:48.400 so much, Clements always thank you, always so so eye 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.840 opening to just to hear you speak and your passion. 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:53.800 And I always learn so much from everything that you 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.359 have to say. And every time that I have a 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:00.600 conversation with you, I always change a little bit about 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:01.920 what I of. 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:03.560 How I live, and what I do. 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.800 I love that and I think back to the classes 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:08.960 that you taught just about the history of food and 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.400 the trajectory of them, and I think to each one 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.919 of those all the time. So thank you for opening 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:19.040 my eyes. And those are the people that you reached. 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:20.919 It's impactful. 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.960 Special thank you to my friend Clements from the Santa 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.360 Monica Bakery, Pettit Grand Blingerie. 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.320 Thank you everyone who joined today. 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:34.080 See you all next week when you talk about the 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.480 history of butter fig. 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:42.600 Hungary for History is a hyphen a media production in 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.680 partnership with Iheart's Michael Bura podcast network. 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.680 For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:54.639 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.