1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newtsworld. When we think about parents 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: and children in the Bible, we often think about fathers 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: and sons, but the mothers and daughters of the Bible 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: have stories just as powerful as their male counterparts. In 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: her new book, The Mothers and Daughters of the Bible Speak, 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Lessons on Faith from Nine Biblical Families, Shannon Bream has 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: written a sequel to her best selling The Women of 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: the Bible Speak and Now She explains how God teaches 9 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: us through the Biblical stories of mothers and daughters. Through 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: these stories, Shannon explains the intimate connection between faith and 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: family and how God's unexpected agenda can redefine the way 12 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: we think about family. Here to talk about her new book, 13 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: I am really pleased to welcome my guests, Shannon Bream. 14 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: You know, in addition to being a number one New 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: York Times best selling she's the anchor of Fox News 16 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: at Night, has been chief legal correspondent for Fox News Channel. 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: She's covered landmark cases at the Supreme Court and heated 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: political campaigns and policy battles from the White House to 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: Capitol Hill. Shannon, thank you for joining me, mister speaker. 20 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: It's an honor to be with you. It's fine, and 21 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: I always enjoy having a chance to be interviewed by 22 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: you and to be on your show. So this is 23 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: sort of an interesting reversal of roles. It is we 24 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: love having you now. Last year you wrote your New 25 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: York bestseller The Women of the Bible Speak The Wisdom 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: of sixteen Women and their Lessons for Today. Let me 27 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: start with that. With such a great success, what inspired 28 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: you to write that book? You know, my faith has 29 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: always been I try to make it the most important 30 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: thing in my life. And so Fox actually came to 31 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: me a couple years ago and said, we're thinking about 32 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: doing books. We want to do something maybe for women 33 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: in the space of religion. Would you be interested in this? 34 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: And I was so humbled and excited and immediately jumped 35 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: onto this project. And you know, you've written many bestsellers yourself. 36 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: On the front end, it's very exciting, and then you 37 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: realize the grind of work it's going to take you 38 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: to get it done, and you're like, wait a minute, 39 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: why did I say yes to this? But it really 40 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: became a labor of love. I grew up learning about 41 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 1: the Bible, knowing scripture, but I learned so much more 42 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: about these women, and they became so personal to me, 43 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: like I really knew them. And I thought, what a 44 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: privilege to share these stories with other people who, you know, 45 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: maybe they're more comfortable picking up this book than they 46 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: would be trying to dive into the Bible, and so 47 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: I hope it just makes these stories more accessible for everyone. 48 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: So how did it feel to have five weeks in 49 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: the number one spot? I mean, that's really a great achievement. 50 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: I just not real, honestly, because I never thought I 51 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: don't think any of us thought it would really connect 52 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: with people. So well, it's such a blessing that it did. 53 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: And I always chuckle to think, I don't think The 54 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: New York Times wanted to have a book about the 55 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: Bible put out by Fox News and number one for 56 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: any weeks, So we're grateful they recognized it. But I've 57 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: just heard stories from people around the world, men and women, 58 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: and how they've shared it with each other and studied 59 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: it together, and it's just been a huge blessing. I 60 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: think that's great. And I can tell you, if my 61 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: own experiences, you must have been selling a lot of 62 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,399 Speaker 1: books for the Times to sort of grudgingly recognize your 63 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: number one. Yeah, I owe a lot of that to 64 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: our Fox viewers. They're very faithful, not only to us, 65 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: but really in their own religious faith. I think many 66 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: of them are committed and appreciate someone that would recognize 67 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: that and appeal to where they're at, which is wanting 68 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: more of this material like this that celebrates faith and family, 69 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: and that's what we've tried to give them. Your first 70 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: book was published by Fox and News Books, But now 71 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: I understand that you're really becoming a trailblazer because your 72 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: new book, The Mothers and Daughters of the Bible Speak, 73 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: is the first French guys series that Fox News has launched. 74 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: I think that's really a remarkable tribute to you that 75 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: they've decided to sort of double down and create a 76 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: series you become the centerpiece of. And when you finished 77 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: with The Women of the Bible Speak, what led you 78 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: to then come back? I have two daughters, so I'm 79 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: curious what led you to come back now and focus 80 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: on mothers and Daughters of the Bible. Well, there are 81 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: so many women in the first book that we couldn't include. 82 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: I mean we tried, we went back and forth on 83 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: a couple of them and try to jam in as 84 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: many stories as we could and give them their due 85 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: to really explain and flesh out their stories and their lives. 86 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: But we know there's so many still left, and we thought, okay, 87 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: let's take another look at this, and this time we'll 88 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: do it through the lens of family. So we get 89 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: to highlight these amazing women all throughout the Bible again 90 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: Old and New Testament, and we really dig into their 91 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: lives from this family relationship viewpoint. And the fact is 92 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: there are some that are very faithful and beautiful and encouraging. 93 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: There's some that are like the Dynasty Dallas, like on 94 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: steroid situation of dysfunctional families, of backstabbing and betrayal, and 95 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: I mean crazy stuff. And we thought, I love that 96 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: God includes all of that in the Bible, because if 97 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: he just used people with no flaws, it would be 98 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: Jesus in the Bible. And that's it. And I think 99 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: that should be encouraging to all of us because listen, 100 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: I ask for forgiveness every day. I need it. I'm flawed. 101 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: And we see that all through these women in the Bible, 102 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: that God used them even despite some of their ridiculously 103 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: bad decisions. He can still chart our chorus and redeem 104 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: our story and use us. So this time we just 105 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: look at families, the good and the bad, and hopefully 106 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: learn and get encouraged from that. Now, in your first book, 107 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: you have sixteen women. You now come back and you 108 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: have sort of nine mother daughter relationships. What led you 109 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: to the number nine? Is there anything particular? Well, again, 110 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: it's trying to figure out how many we can fit 111 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: in in a compelling way, but really give their stories 112 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: the time and the space that they need to breathe. 113 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: And we really start to look through the Bible doesn't 114 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: give us a traditional mother daughter stories in a very 115 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: fleshed out way. So we start with Jacobin and Miriam 116 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: because that's one of the ones we have the most 117 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: information about. But then we said, let's look at mothers. 118 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: We have some mothers and sons, we have daughters, We 119 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: have fathers and daughters, and so it's just looking across 120 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: all of those parental relationships with the focus on the 121 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: women in each of those stories. And it was just 122 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: a fun different way to kind of tackle these characters 123 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: and get to know them in a different way that 124 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: then maybe you've seen them before. Obviously you're a faithful 125 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: person yourself, and you've had a background of reading and 126 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: thinking about all this to doing the research for these 127 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: particular stories. Did that change any of them in terms 128 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: of your own interpretation? And did any of them surprise you? Yeah, 129 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: they really did. And I think you probably know this. 130 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: When you go to research a book or a story 131 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: that you know about, you're already interested. You love it, 132 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: you want to know more about it. And that's how 133 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: I felt about all these stories in both of the books. 134 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: And I learned so much more. I think when you 135 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: dig into the con text of you know, I have 136 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: theologians who let me pick their brains and bug them 137 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: and say, what did this really say in Greek or Hebrew? 138 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: What was the context of that time, what were the 139 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: cultural norms of that time? And so to have all 140 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: that context just made the story so much richer to me. 141 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: And I learned a lot about these women. You know 142 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: who really surprised me was Bathsheba, and we know her 143 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: story if you've been in church or grown up learning 144 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: about the Old Testament. The story I'd always been told 145 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: is sort of like Bashiba is this temptress and she 146 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: ensnares David and they get into all this trouble. But 147 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: when you go back and study and read the scripture, 148 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: that is not how scripture portrays her at all. And 149 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: I think it's important to challenge whatever story that you've 150 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: been told if it doesn't line up with scripture. I'm 151 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: going with God's word. And we learned so much more 152 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: about Bathsheba, and not knowing really how she felt about David, 153 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: how she felt about being called to the palace, and 154 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: there's no indication that she was trying to catch his 155 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: eye or tempt him. They end up in a horrible 156 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: situation together. But what a lot of people forget is 157 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: they don't follow Bathshiba's story all the way through, which 158 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: is she's the mother of King Solomon, And think about 159 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: him described as the wisest man ever by God, who 160 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: God had gone to him and said, Solomon, what can 161 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: I do for you? And instead of asking for fame 162 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: and fortune and all of those things that most of 163 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: us would be tempted to do worldly pleasures, he said, 164 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: I want wisdom, And God said, because you ask for that, 165 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: not only am I going to give you wisdom, but 166 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you all those other things you 167 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: didn't ask for the fame and fortune, so you see 168 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the relationship between Bathsheba and King Solomon 169 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: as he ascends to the throne, and I thought, gosh, 170 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: I kind of just lost her in the story there 171 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: at some point. I didn't follow this all the way through. 172 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: So she was the most surprising to me and really 173 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: changed my perception of what I had of her going 174 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: into the scripture study. Well, I mean, in a sense, 175 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: she was loyal enough to Uriah that David basically has 176 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: to send him out to get killed. It wasn't like, 177 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: will you divorce him so you'll marry me. It was like, 178 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: I'm going to eliminate the option and then take you. 179 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: It's always struck me that there was a strange kind 180 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: of justice in that their oldest son Absalom, rises in 181 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: rebellion against his father ultimately gets killed. But then you 182 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: get Solomon, and so in a sense there's a penalty 183 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: really against David, not against Beshiva, but as the prophet 184 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: says to David, David's the one who's guilty, and a 185 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: very chilling confrontation, and then you have the punishment, but 186 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: then you also have the great reward of Solomon, who 187 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: was arguably the best of Israeli kings or the second best, 188 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: depending on how you see David in his role in 189 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: creating Jerusalem. I think we all, as faithful believers love 190 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 1: about David is that he was majorly flawed, made horrible decisions, 191 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: and really sinned against God, and God still called him 192 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: a man after my own heart and was able to 193 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: use him to lead the nation of Israel in a 194 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: really special, amazing way. So I find that encouraging that 195 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: no matter if we stumble or we can still be 196 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: used of God a full humble ourselves, as David did 197 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: in Psalm fifty one. He has this beautiful prayer of 198 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: begging for forgiveness. I've often taken comfort in Psalm fifty 199 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: one because he just says, I've been wrong, Please cleanse 200 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: me and make me whole. And God was faithful to say, Okay, 201 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: you've humbled yourself and come back to me, and I 202 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: can use that. Yeah. I think David is remarkably human 203 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: in that sense, and a reminder that you can be 204 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: human and can be saved. Thank Goodness, that's good news 205 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: for all of us. Yeah, that's right. I mean, since 206 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: all of us fall short of the glory of God, 207 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: we all have to rely, I think a mercy rather 208 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: than justice. Like somebody once said, the younger you are, 209 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: the more you think justice is a good idea, and 210 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: the longer you've lived, the more you decide mercy would 211 00:10:44,120 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: really be a good idea. Very wise, But I have 212 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: to ask you, as you read all these different family relationships, 213 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: did any of them sort of remind you of your 214 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: own childhood and your own relationship with your mom. Yes. 215 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: In Jacobet and Miriam, I definitely see that. Because these women, 216 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: we have to remember the context for them when we 217 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: come upon them and meet them in Moses, and that 218 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: they were Hebrew slaves. I mean, the Egyptians were oppressing them. 219 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: They were very threatened. Pharoah was by the Hebrew people 220 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: because God was blessing them and they were multiplying. And 221 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: so Fare comes up with this idea that every male 222 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: child that's born to these Hebrew female slaves is going 223 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: to get thrown into the Nile and be killed. And 224 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, my goodness, imagine being Jacobet or any 225 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: of these women carrying a baby, having such conflicting emotions 226 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: and worries, like if I give birth and this baby 227 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: is a boy, he could be taken from me and 228 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: just thrown into the nile and killed. But jacobed were 229 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: told when she saw Moses when he was born, her 230 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: baby boy, she already had Miriam, so she's the older sister. 231 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: She's the dog in the story. She sees Moses, and 232 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: the Bible tells us she sees something special or different, 233 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: almost like a spiritual destiny or call on him. And 234 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: she has no choices in her life as a slave woman, 235 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: but makes this bold choice to disobey the orders and 236 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: save and hide her child. And she does that with 237 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: the help of Miriam. This mother and daughter work together 238 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: to have a life saving effort to cover Moses and 239 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: preserve him. He goes on to be the one to 240 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: lead the exodus the Israelites out to their promised land 241 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: and to the New world and salvation from slavery and oppression. 242 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: So without this mother daughter trio working in tandem and 243 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: being very courageous, where does Moses's story go. So I 244 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: see a lot of my mom in that she is 245 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: a faithful person who I tell people you can run 246 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: into her somewhere, and if you tell her your story 247 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: and you're having trouble, she'll say, I'm going to pray 248 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: for you. And it's not just that she will. She 249 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: might actually stop in the grocery store or wherever it 250 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: is and say, let's pray right here, but she'll really 251 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: be on her knees in prayer for you around the clock. 252 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: She is a true prayer warrior and somebody who shows 253 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: up in your worst moments. She's got the castrole, the 254 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 1: homemade bread, she'll babysit, she'll dog sit. I mean, she's 255 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: just somebody who shows up and is a faithful, faithful witness. 256 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: And I say to her, only half jokingly, like when 257 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: I grow up, I want to be you, or at 258 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: least more like you. So she has modeled faith for me. 259 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: And I really saw that in the Jocobed Miriam relationship, 260 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: in that they trusted each other and they were faithful, 261 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: and they were brave and courageous. And Jacobin modeled all 262 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: of those things for Miriam, who also ended up being 263 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: a leader in the nation of Israel. So you think 264 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: about Jocobed, what an amazing woman she raised Moses, Miriam, 265 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: and Aaron, who was the head of all the priests 266 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: for Israel too. So this mom sort of had the 267 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: trifecta of overachievers in her family. You talk a lot 268 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 1: in your book about spiritual motherhood. What does that mean 269 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: to you? And what should the rest of us draw 270 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: from him? You know, a lot of these relationships that 271 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: we see in scripture aren't mother daughter by blood, but 272 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: they could be by marriage or by mentorship. We have 273 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: Naomi in Ruth who story is one of my absolute 274 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: favorites because they are a mother and daughter in law 275 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: who are both widowed. So in that day and age, 276 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: to not have a male as either a financial provider 277 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: or as a protector. I mean, they were destitute, they 278 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 1: lived in poverty, but they stuck together. And at one 279 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: point we have this beautiful interaction where Naomi is saying 280 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: to Ruth, go back, You're still young, you can have 281 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: a family, you can start fresh, and Ruth says nope. 282 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: It's that speech we often hear used in weddings, that 283 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: scripture passage where she says, where you go, I will go, 284 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: don't make me turn back from you. Your God will 285 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: be my God, your people will be my people. I 286 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: mean that's Ruth and Naomi. So this daughter in law 287 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: becomes a daughter in just every possible conceivable way, goes 288 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: on this journey with Naomi back to her home country, 289 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: embraces her people, and they do live in poverty. I mean, 290 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: they're collecting scraps left over after the fields have been harvested. 291 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: But Ruth says, I'm going to stay with you, Naomi, 292 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: and they stick together, and it winds up in this 293 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: beautiful love story and redemption in God's blessing with Boaz 294 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: and Ruth becoming married, and that being in the lineage 295 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: of Christ. So I just loved their story that these 296 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: women who had nothing but their faith in each other 297 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: stuck together in the New Testament. I love love the 298 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: story of Elizabeth and Mary, who were cousins. They were 299 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: not mother daughter, but in many ways spiritual mother daughter. 300 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: Both of them had these miraculous divine pregnancies. Elizabeth decades 301 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: after she had wanted a child and had probably given 302 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: up and was much older than should have ever been 303 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: having a baby. And then you have her young cousin Mary, 304 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: who has this divine pregnancy at a very young age 305 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: when she may have been very frightened and certainly this 306 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: unexpected pregnancy. But I love that when Gabriel goes to 307 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: Mary to tell her that she's going to be pregnant 308 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: with the Messiah. Gabriel says, by the way, your cousin 309 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: Elizabeth is also pregnant. So to me, it's beautiful that 310 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: God wove together their stories at the same time, knowing, listen, 311 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: nobody's going to believe either one of their stories is 312 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: a supernatural divine intervention, and they both may be frightened 313 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: or unsure in different ways, but they had each other 314 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: through that. And I love that God us spiritual mothers 315 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: and daughters in our lives. I've seen that in my 316 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: own life, and I'm super grateful for it. You know, 317 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: this story came up today at the Basilica with the 318 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: head a mass for Ukraine and Russia, and they were 319 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: pointed out that when Mary goes to see Elizabeth, which 320 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: is a very famous moment where Elizabeth's son sort of 321 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: kicks her and recognition of Jesus and becomes John the Baptist, 322 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: that Mary had probably walked eighty miles because back then 323 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: you didn't have cars and you you didn't have mass transit. 324 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: She just literally had walked to go see her. And 325 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: that struck me that in itself was a level of 326 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: dedication that a lot of modern people would, I think 327 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: find really hard. So in your own life, have you 328 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: had what you would consider to be spiritual mothers I have. 329 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: I talk about a friend in the book who is Mariam, 330 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: and she has been a godsend to me. She's somebody 331 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: that when somebody says who's the most beautiful person, you 332 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: know like she is the most grace filled inside and 333 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: out beautiful person that I know. She's welcoming, her door 334 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: is always open. She's taken in so many people, given 335 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: them literally a place to live, a roof over their head. 336 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: She and her husband are some of the most faithful, 337 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: grace filled, generous people that I know. And she's always 338 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 1: got a good wise word. She will speak to you 339 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: in truth, but drenched in love. And there have been 340 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: times in my life when I've had very dark moments, 341 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: in real struggles, and I think about one. You know, 342 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 1: I've talked some in the past about a chronic illness 343 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: and chronic pain situation that I lived with for years 344 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: and had gotten just to a complete despairing place when 345 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: I'd gone from doctor to doctor, nobody had been able 346 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: to diagnose me or help me. At that point. I 347 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: hadn't eventually found this doctor who's been an amazing I 348 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: tell him he's an answer to prayer, because I literally 349 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: prayed God would send me to the right person. But 350 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: in my darkest moment, I remember calling up Miriam when 351 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: I was just in excruciating pain and feeling like I 352 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: could not go on like this anymore. It had been 353 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 1: years of this, and she said, come over, and I 354 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: went and sat on this pretty little gazebo that she's 355 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: got in her backyard and just cried, like ugly cry, 356 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, tears and sobbing, and had nothing left. And 357 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: in that moment, she was so faithful to prayer for me, 358 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: to encourage me, to remind me that Christ has suffered 359 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: everything we've suffered. And more so, he's not a distant, 360 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: unfeeling God. I mean he is with us. He's interceding 361 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: for us, and he's in every moment of misery that 362 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: we have. And so Mariam has just been an example 363 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: to me. She has her own physical struggles in life, 364 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: but she doesn't complain about them, she doesn't make excuses 365 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: or not do things because of them. She's constantly in 366 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: service to God and to other people. And it is 367 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: such a beautiful comfort and a witness to me. That's great, 368 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: That's remarkable. I think watching you and listening to you 369 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: you also remind me that to have those kind of relationships, 370 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: you have to be open to them, in the sense 371 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: you have to slow down a little bit to the 372 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: relationships to phone. I think that's part of what people sometimes, 373 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: whether because they're afraid, or because they're arrogant, or because 374 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: they're busy, they don't realize that there's a lot more 375 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: out there for them if they'll slow down and open up. 376 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: It's hard to be vulnerable too. I think that especially. 377 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: I feel for the younger generation, my goodness, that everything 378 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: has to be perfectly curated and look great on Instagram 379 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: and you take a thousand selfies and to have one 380 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: where you're happy and your hair is great. And for 381 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: people with kids, your kids are lined up, they're behaving, 382 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: they're great. I mean everything online that we present each 383 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: other is usually not the truth. I think it's hard 384 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: to be vulnerable, but the relationships are so much richer, 385 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: and our ability to serve other people with real empathy 386 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: and real care can only happen if we take that step, 387 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: which is sometimes uncomfortable. I think that's right. I think 388 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 1: people don't realize that you have to be vulnerable to 389 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: be open enough to allow people in so they can 390 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 1: then actually be your friend, and so there is that 391 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: risk of sort of lowering the armor. I think this 392 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: is obviously going to be a very successful book. You 393 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: have really found an interesting angle to look at life 394 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: and to bring together the wisdom of the Bible with 395 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: the daily needs of normal Americans. And we're working on 396 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: a project actually that your book helps with, which is 397 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: looking at lives and deaths of despair, the number of suicides, 398 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: the number of drug overdoses, the amount of alcoholism, the homelessness. 399 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: All that I think is in part a function of 400 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: people who close up too much and who aren't willing 401 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: to relax and accept God's grace and look for the 402 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: kind of spiritual friends, whether it's a spiritual mother or 403 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,239 Speaker 1: a spiritual father, that can really make your life so 404 00:20:43,320 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: much richer and can help you through the long dark parts. Now, 405 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: but if you don't mind, though, I want to take 406 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: just a minute or two, Because of course everyone knows 407 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: you from your role at Fox News and the great, 408 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: great job you do there. It's interesting I didn't realize 409 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: until we were preparing for this, because I've always known 410 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: you as a journalist but you actually practice corporate law 411 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: in Florida. I did. I'm one of those recovering slash 412 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: retired lawyers. Yeah, I joke about it, but my dad 413 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: was only half joking when he told me in college, like, 414 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: you're going to law school or med school, so just 415 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: pick one, and I want to hear anything about any guys, 416 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: any marriage and engagements, Like you get through one of 417 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: those and then we can talk about the rest of 418 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: your life. And I was a good student growing up, 419 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: so I think my dad and my mom was a teacher, 420 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: they really valued education. And I think my dad wanted 421 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: to make sure that I would be able to have 422 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: a career and take care of myself and have a 423 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 1: way in the world. And I was interested in law 424 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: and politics. So for me, law school made a lot 425 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: of sense. And so I went back home to Tallhassee 426 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: where I grew up, went to Florida State and law 427 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: school is tough. I mean, anybody who's been through it, 428 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's a difficult thing. But it 429 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: gave me such a great foundation and a couple of 430 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: things I really use now, which is research, digging and 431 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: digging getting to the bottom of the story. Knowing that 432 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: people have a lot of different versions of looking at 433 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: the same event, so you got to dig a little bit. 434 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: And also writing, I mean it forces you to write 435 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: a lot. I did that for a few years, but 436 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: I've always been a news junkie and I could never 437 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: really escape that pull. So I tell people, you know, 438 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: I had my midlife crisis at almost twenty nine, thirty 439 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: years old, had my midlife crisis there and said I'm 440 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: going to do this and change my career and blow 441 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: things up. And it was a weird path, but it's 442 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: one I'm really grateful I took. Okay, so you're already 443 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: a successful lawyer, you have an interesting life. What leads 444 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: you to broadcast as your alternative path? I really loved news, 445 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: so I thought, here's what I'm going to do while 446 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: I'm still at my law firm. I'm going to see 447 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: if i can go intern at a local TV station 448 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: and see what it's like. So I go in there 449 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 1: and they're like, you can't just show up here and 450 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: work for free, Like, we have rules and there are 451 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: labor standards, and as a labor and employment attorney, I 452 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: knew that. So they said, you can only do this 453 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: for college credit. So I thought Okay, I'll call a 454 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: college and see if they'll let me do this for credit. 455 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: And I got so many nos, and finally somebody at 456 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: the University of South Florida in Tampa said, all right, 457 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: quit bugging us. I mean, you just got to wear 458 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: people down. I tell people, even once you get into 459 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: the business, you're just gonna get a lot of knows 460 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: and you have to just keep fighting until you get yes. 461 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: But this will date me. I faxed over my transcripts. 462 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: So this dean, this professor at USF, and I would 463 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: call him, I would email him, and so finally he said, 464 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: come have a meeting with me. He said, okay, I 465 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: can see you're a serious student. You gotta take a 466 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: news writing class because you don't know what you're doing. 467 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'll take the newswriting class. And he said, 468 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: I'll approve these credits for you to go intern. So 469 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: I would intern overnight after I would leave my law firm, 470 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 1: and i'd hide it from them and not tell them 471 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: what I was doing. And I would go over there 472 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: and work overnights or weekends. And I fell in love 473 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: with it immediately. I was just like, I love this. 474 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: People are going and finding stories and telling stories. This 475 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: is what I want to do. And so at the 476 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: end of that internship, I went to my boss there 477 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: at the station and I said, I'm quitting my law firm. 478 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: And he said, no one's offered you a job here, 479 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: and I said, just a technicality. I'm stepping out on 480 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: faith and I believe something's going to come up for 481 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: me in this business. And I started at the bottom 482 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: and just work my way up. That's wow. Is there 483 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: a parallelism between what you did as a very junior 484 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 1: reporter at a local station and what you do now 485 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: or are they dramatically different. I think you're still finding 486 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: and telling stories and digging for the truth. That definitely 487 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: is something that is consistent. But at this level you 488 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: have a lot more help and you have sort of 489 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: a bigger megaphone hopefully to highlight stories and people that 490 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: you think are critical and important, and you have a 491 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: lot more responsibility. Obviously, with the bigger your audience grows. 492 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: But everything I learned as a beginning reporter and producer 493 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: is invaluable. If you can learn how to find the stories, 494 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: run them down, get the interviews, shoot them yourself, log 495 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: the tape, write the script, I mean, all of those 496 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: things are great so that when you do have more 497 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: help along the way, like other producers and writers and photographers, 498 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: you're just extra grateful for them and you appreciate what 499 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: they do. But in a pinch, you know how to 500 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: do the job yourself if you need to. So I 501 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: think I'm glad that I started the way that I 502 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: did and just learned everything by kind of sink or swim. 503 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: But it was kind of cool because when you make 504 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: the jump from Local to Fox, it combines your two 505 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: careers because you become the Supreme Court correspondent. So your 506 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 1: law background was kind of perfect for now being a reporter, right. 507 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: And I had met Britt Hume at a speech that 508 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: he was giving. He was backstage in the green room. 509 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: I knew he was going to be there. So this 510 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: is a little bit of an ambush on Britt. I 511 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: was a local reporter and anchor in DC at that time, 512 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: but Fox was taking off. It was blowing up, and 513 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: like everybody else, I was sending in my tapes my DVDs, 514 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: I would never hear anything back. I couldn't get an interview. 515 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: So I knew Britt was going to be at this thing, 516 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: so I'm in the backstage with some other people and 517 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: talking and he says, oh, hey, nice to meet you. 518 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: And my husband was there and he said, I don't 519 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 1: know if you know this, but my wife is a 520 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: local reporter here in Washington. And Britt says, oh, what 521 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: do you want to do long term? I just screwed 522 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: it up all my courage and I said to him, 523 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: I want to come work for you at Fox News. 524 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: And he said I get that all the time. It's 525 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: sort of this polite, like, getaway, crazy lady. He was 526 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: nice and said, please send over your stuff. I'll look 527 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: at it, give you some professional critique. I was really 528 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: grateful for that. I left the room. I was a 529 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: little bit embarrassed. I went for a little walk. Well, 530 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: my husband stayed there and he said to my husband, 531 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: you know, does she like politics? What is she into? 532 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: And my husband said yeah. When she was in law school, 533 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: she worked in the Florida House on a tuition program. 534 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: And Brit said she went to law school. Did she 535 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: finish And my husband said, oh, yeah, she graduated with honors. 536 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: And Britt said, do you think she'd want to cover 537 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court? And sheldon. My husband says, well, I'm 538 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: not going to speak for her, but I think she'd 539 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: be very interested in that. So I've been very politely 540 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: kind of blown off by Britt. I come back from 541 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: this five minute walk and he says to me, when 542 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: can you start? And I look at my husband and says, 543 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: what in the heck happened while I was gone for 544 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: five minutes? But Britt only wanted to interview people to 545 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: cover the Supreme Court who had a law background, And 546 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: once he found that out, it was my way in 547 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: with him him in the conversation with him, and so 548 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: I credit him for giving me a chance and believing 549 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: I could do this job. That's great. And he's just 550 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: a great guy all around. Yea, yeah, yeah. We've done 551 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff together and I'm always impressed with 552 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: just how calm and competent he is and how pleasant 553 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: he is he is. And I've turned to him many 554 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: times as a professional mentor to ask for his advice, 555 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: and he is really good in that role too. Oh, 556 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: I would think he would be very very good. So 557 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: you covered I think five different nominations, you know, I 558 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: was counting the other day. Let me see, so I 559 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: Kagan Sodamayor gorstch Cavanaugh, Barrett, and now Jackson. So it's 560 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 1: been six I'm getting old and right, I'm getting old nude. 561 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: At least you have a number of naches on your 562 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: camera for the number of places you've been exactly they've 563 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: all been different. Of all those hearings, I mean, which 564 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: one did you find the most fascinating? I gotta say 565 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: Cavanaugh because it was like nothing else I've ever covered 566 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: on the Hill in Washington. From the minute that then 567 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: Chairman Chuck Grassley started giving his opening statement and there 568 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 1: were interruptions five seconds in, I thought, what is happening? 569 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: This is very strange. All the calls to try to 570 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: adjourn the thing and shut it down, and we're not 571 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: going to do this. And that was pre COVID. So 572 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: that's when anyone could be in the public audience and 573 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: come into those hearings, and the poor Capitol police, my goodness, 574 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 1: these men and women earned their money and then some 575 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: for that entire week because they would let people in. 576 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: We started playing sort of protester or bingo. We would 577 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,719 Speaker 1: look at the people would come in and say like, oh, 578 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: that one's definitely jumping up, that one's definitely got a 579 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: post or hiding under their jacket. It was just one 580 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: after the other to where it was so jarring to 581 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: have them constantly screaming and jumping up physically being dragged out. 582 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: I mean that went on for days. It was just 583 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: the most bizarre situation. And I remember senators from both 584 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: sides of the aisle couldn't get to the floor, They 585 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: couldn't get to their offices. People running on the elevators 586 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: with them. It was just a boisterous, crazy circus. And 587 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: I don't think anything will ever I hope be like 588 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: that confirmation hearing again. Well, I guess it was in 589 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: part because I think that was the seat that switched 590 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: from what had been a liberal court to a conservative court. Well, 591 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: it was you know that he was going to step 592 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: into a position that was going to be around for 593 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: a long time, and he was replacing Kennedy who had 594 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: become a swing vote, and everything about him threatened folks. 595 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: He was very young, so you imagine he's going to 596 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: have decades on the court. Yep. That's one of the 597 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: Trump's strategies was to appoint really young judges and really 598 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: young justices so that they'll shape it for a generation. 599 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: And I think it's a remarkable difference. If you look 600 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: at the way the current hearings are going, they're much 601 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: more genteel, They're much more irrational, right, And I felt 602 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: badly for Kavanaugh's family. I thought that was really a 603 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: very tough personal period. The White House has to choose 604 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: someone that is not only a brilliant legal mind, somebody 605 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: they think will line up with their judicial philosophy, but 606 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: somebody who can run that gauntlet, because it is bruising, 607 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: it is brutal. Your family is sitting there with you. 608 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: I mean we all remember Martha an Alito who was 609 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: in tears. I mean, it's brutal for your family members 610 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: or kids, everybody who sits there, whether you're appointed by 611 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: a Republican or a Democrat, it's nerve racking. And the 612 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: family goes through it right with that nominee. Well, and 613 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: of course, one of the great privileges you've had is 614 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: that you've been at the center of national power. There's 615 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: a reason there's so much intensity. Here's the most complicated 616 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: country in the world. People get really know, their dreams 617 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: and their fears all autombly end up somewhere in Washington, DC. 618 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: Is amazing process. You've been very generous at the time 619 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: because I know how busy you are, and I know 620 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: that in part us by watching TV. But in addition 621 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: to the other things you're doing, I really want to 622 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me for talking both about what 623 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: you currently do, but also this remarkable book on Mothers 624 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: and Daughters of the Bible Speak, which does have lessons 625 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: on faith from nine Biblical families. So I'm recommending to 626 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: our listeners to purchase a copy. He comes out on Tuesday, 627 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: March twenty ninth, and I have no doubt that they 628 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: will be buying your second number one bestseller. So thank 629 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: you very very much for joining us. Thank you for 630 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: the time, and I've really enjoyed the discussion, and thank 631 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: you for speaking faith into the public forum too. I 632 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: think we need more of that. Thank you to my 633 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: guest Shannon Reeen. You get a link to buy her 634 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: new book, The Mothers and Daughters of the Bible Speak 635 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: on our showpage at newtworld dot com. Newtworld is produced 636 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: by Gingwish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is 637 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: Garnsey Sloan, our producer is Rebecca Howe, and our researcher 638 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created 639 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at Gingwig 640 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll 641 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five 642 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: stars and give us a review so others can learn 643 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can 644 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: sign up for my three free weekly columns at Gingrish 645 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This 646 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: is newts World.