WEBVTT - Bending Spoons CEO Luca Ferrari Talks IPO 

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>We've got Luca Ferrari, the co founder, CEO and chair

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<v Speaker 2>of Bending Spoons, joining us from the Nasdaq. Also with

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<v Speaker 2>us Bailey Lipschaltz, Bloomberg News IPO reporter who joins us

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<v Speaker 2>here in the studio. Look, I want to start with

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<v Speaker 2>what exactly the portfolio is and sort of how you

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<v Speaker 2>want to communicate to investors what you're going to do

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<v Speaker 2>with assets that many people remember from the world of

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<v Speaker 2>web one point zero.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for having me. First of all, let me

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<v Speaker 1>explain how we operate, because it's a quite unusual, perhaps unique.

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<v Speaker 1>We've spent the last thirteen years building what I consider

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<v Speaker 1>an exceptional platform, a very high time in density, a

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<v Speaker 1>culture of high performance and rationality, fifty plus proprietary technologies

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<v Speaker 1>and operating system for running digital businesses as effectively and

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<v Speaker 1>as efficiently as possible, and a lot of data that

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<v Speaker 1>helps us make better decisions at the stage of acquisition

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<v Speaker 1>and operations. Now, what we do with this engine as

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<v Speaker 1>we go and acquire digital business design, express potential, and

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<v Speaker 1>we integrate them very deeply onto this platform in a

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<v Speaker 1>way that I haven't seen anybody do before. They share

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<v Speaker 1>the entirely the same technological layer. We have a core

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<v Speaker 1>team that moves fluidly across all our businesses and we

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<v Speaker 1>transform them deeply. We rebuild the ORGA technology, the monetization,

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<v Speaker 1>We accelerate innovation, latching the features. So, let's say, pretty

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<v Speaker 1>unique model. And as you were describing, we have established

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<v Speaker 1>over time a portfolio of brands, some of which are

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<v Speaker 1>very well known and some of which are more dated.

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<v Speaker 1>We also have bought more up and coming companies, but

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<v Speaker 1>there's a bit of both. We win. We do well,

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<v Speaker 1>not necessarily when the company we buy is a young

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<v Speaker 1>or old, growing fast or more stagnating, but and we

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<v Speaker 1>can make that trajectory a lot better. So that's what

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<v Speaker 1>we try to excel.

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<v Speaker 3>Look at we were talking earlier about this and I

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<v Speaker 3>just am interested if you can explain for viewers kind

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<v Speaker 3>of the path to better monetization. Again, you have about

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<v Speaker 3>a half a billion monthly active users, but only a

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<v Speaker 3>small fraction of that are actually deriving value from What

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<v Speaker 3>does that mean for the company going forward? And how

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<v Speaker 3>do you grow that?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, help a billion people use our products quote

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<v Speaker 1>unquote only a nine million people, so roughly two percent

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<v Speaker 1>pay for them, which obviously is an opportunity. We also

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<v Speaker 1>believe that it's important to provide excellent value to our customers,

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<v Speaker 1>so we're not looking to monetize as much as possible,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're happy to have a vast population of users

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<v Speaker 1>who use our products without paying and they bring value

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<v Speaker 1>through word of mouth and that will probably continue to

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<v Speaker 1>be the case. But yes, we have an opportunity to

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<v Speaker 1>monetize better and we have a history of doing that

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<v Speaker 1>I think quite successfully, So yes, going forward, hopefully we

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<v Speaker 1>can improve the percentage of our users to to pay

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<v Speaker 1>for our products.

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<v Speaker 3>And yeah, look at no, just thinking through though kind

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<v Speaker 3>of what changes when companies go public? Now you have

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<v Speaker 3>to answer to public investors and obviously that draws the

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<v Speaker 3>potential towards, you know, partnering with AI companies, letting them

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<v Speaker 3>train their ll ms off of their data. How are

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<v Speaker 3>you guys thinking about the potential partnership opportunities? Again, it's

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<v Speaker 3>no longer a company where you and your friends are

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<v Speaker 3>running it. Now you have to answer to the public investors.

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<v Speaker 3>Is there any sense of pressure from them that you

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<v Speaker 3>would need to better monetize and therefore partner with say

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<v Speaker 3>a open AI or anthropic.

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<v Speaker 1>I think managed points as in being a company run

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<v Speaker 1>like friends like that in a long time. We feel

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<v Speaker 1>we are a highly professional organization. We've had a blue

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<v Speaker 1>chip investors on board for many years. We will Bailey

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<v Speaker 1>give for a durable capital have been with us for

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<v Speaker 1>many years at this point, so we have operated you know,

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<v Speaker 1>as regrossly and seriously as it gets for as long

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<v Speaker 1>as I can't remember. Obviously, the constituents will be a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit different as a public company, but we are well.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think we're going to change our views. We're

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<v Speaker 1>trying to maximize value ten or twenty years out and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll continue doing that. In terms of data, we have

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<v Speaker 1>never sold any data. We've never enabled any third party

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<v Speaker 1>to train their models on our data. We don't have

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<v Speaker 1>any plans to do that and un less, you know

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<v Speaker 1>if that changes, but right now that's our sins.

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<v Speaker 4>Look, I'm trying to understand that a little bit more too,

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<v Speaker 4>about the business model. You guys have identified more than

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<v Speaker 4>a thousand digital businesses in Europe and North America that

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<v Speaker 4>could be a track of acquisitions over the next few years.

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<v Speaker 4>That's according to your listing document. It feels like, are

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<v Speaker 4>you just buying your way to growth and masking perhaps

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<v Speaker 4>a slowdown and retention. Is that the strategy?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, yes, we are buying as a key engine

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<v Speaker 1>of growth. I think there's no difference in putting dollars

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<v Speaker 1>against marketing driven growth or RND driven growth or m

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<v Speaker 1>and AH driven growth. They're just different livers you can pull.

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<v Speaker 1>We found that with our platform, m and A has

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<v Speaker 1>been by far the most efficient. We have doubled the

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<v Speaker 1>company roughly speaking, every year for as long as I

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<v Speaker 1>can remember, so not too shabby. We've barely raised any

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<v Speaker 1>equity in the past, certainly much more efficient than we

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<v Speaker 1>would have achieved through more conventional means. And having side that,

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<v Speaker 1>almost every time the companies we've owned we have improved

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<v Speaker 1>the retention, unitization, organic growth. So we're managing these assets

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<v Speaker 1>for the long run. We have never sold a company

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<v Speaker 1>we bought, nor do we plan to. We try to

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<v Speaker 1>be excellent stewards of these businesses. Again with a ten

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<v Speaker 1>twenty interview as long as we can project out. But yes,

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<v Speaker 1>we do anticipate that the vast majority of our growth

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<v Speaker 1>will come from acquisitions, and as long as that's where

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<v Speaker 1>the highest returns come, we'll take it.

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<v Speaker 2>We like it a lot Luka, the next acquisition. Look,

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<v Speaker 2>tell us what it'll be. I'm going to give you

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<v Speaker 2>a gimme or you're going to give me a gimmey,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess what's the theme and the theme that you're

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<v Speaker 2>looking for.

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<v Speaker 1>We're not thematic as an acquired If you look at

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<v Speaker 1>our portfolio, we have enterprise businesses with consumer businesses. We've

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<v Speaker 1>got ticketing, we've got video platforms, a little bit of everything.

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<v Speaker 1>So what we what we look for is businesses that

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<v Speaker 1>we can improve tremendously. Whether it's the product as a

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<v Speaker 1>loyal customer base, but it's a bit data that you

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<v Speaker 1>could overhaul, the user experience, out features, improve the technology,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's the monetization isn't isn't efficient, maybe the cost

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<v Speaker 1>base is blotted. Maybe a bunch of these at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time, and the let's say the customer facing side

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<v Speaker 1>of things can vary, but those fundamentals that have to

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<v Speaker 1>be at least one or two of these have to

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<v Speaker 1>be in place for us to be interested. So we're

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<v Speaker 1>always looking at a bunch of companies. Hopefully will acquire

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<v Speaker 1>additional companies in the in the rest during the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of the year. But but yeah, even if I wanted to,

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<v Speaker 1>I could and share any theme that we don't think

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<v Speaker 1>that way.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we aren't surprised by that. Good one by Tim

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<v Speaker 3>dough Luca. One question, though, when you hear SaaS apocalypse,

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<v Speaker 3>does that present opportunity or does that present risks? Just

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<v Speaker 3>thinking through the portfolios of companies doesn't seem that difficult

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<v Speaker 3>to me, as someone who's not that smart, to replicate

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<v Speaker 3>some of the portfolio companies using a claud for example.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I totally agree. I mean it's very easy. I'd

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<v Speaker 1>say it's been very easy for at least ten fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>years replicating take all writing a mobile or desktop email app.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there's probably setal hundreds of them out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Event Pride has been copied a million times. AI doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>change that. If it was already very easy, it makes

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<v Speaker 1>it even easier. But there's so many clones at this

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<v Speaker 1>point that it doesn't make any difference. There's a world

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<v Speaker 1>not the world we're living. We're building a ticketing platform

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<v Speaker 1>is possibly difficult, and event Pride is the only one

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<v Speaker 1>to exist, and it's maybe worth a billion dollars or

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<v Speaker 1>fifty billion dollars, And now with AI becomes easy, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's a bad news, but again, that's not the world

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<v Speaker 1>we live in. It's been very easy to replicate product

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<v Speaker 1>like event Pride for a decade. So any success that

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<v Speaker 1>these companies are having right now, it is not based

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<v Speaker 1>on a lack of technically viable alternatives. They win because

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<v Speaker 1>they have a brand, or a network effect or switching costs,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I don't think that will really change going forward.

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<v Speaker 1>We haven't seen any degradation whatsoever in any metrics. If anything,

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<v Speaker 1>AI has been a major tailwind for us. Ultimately, the

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<v Speaker 1>main disadvantage of our model is that these transformations are

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<v Speaker 1>very operationally intensive. We need a lot of excellent people

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<v Speaker 1>to work really hard to rebuild. Again, the software features monetization,

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<v Speaker 1>so we can do a million of these acquisitions per year.

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<v Speaker 1>AI solves that entirely, but it loses that bottleneck substantially.

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<v Speaker 1>Our revenue Perspooner Spoonery is like our core team or

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<v Speaker 1>people will help us transform the companies right went up

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<v Speaker 1>from about a million dollars in twenty twenty three to

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<v Speaker 1>a round rate of roughly four million dollars in Q

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<v Speaker 1>one twenty twenty six, with AI being clearly the main

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<v Speaker 1>reason for for that massive growth.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look, we don't have a ton of time left

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<v Speaker 2>and Max a few more questions we want to get to.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to focus in on the AOL part of this.

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<v Speaker 2>You bought that from Apollo one and a half billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollars approximately last year AOL In full disclosure, many years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>I worked at a version of AOL. It's known for

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<v Speaker 2>still having people who actually pay for it, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>just a shadow of what it once was. When you

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<v Speaker 2>say you're trying to get more people to pay for

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<v Speaker 2>the products and services that you own, how do you

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<v Speaker 2>get more people to pay for AOL?

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<v Speaker 1>So AOL currently has approximately thirty million monthplick to users

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<v Speaker 1>only as more percentage of these pay or others are

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<v Speaker 1>monetized through advertising, unlike most of our user base, where

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<v Speaker 1>often we don't use ads at all, unlike people think. Actually,

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<v Speaker 1>oil has been growing for several years. I can't really

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<v Speaker 1>speak as to what happened ten or two years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>but at least the last three or four years it's

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<v Speaker 1>been on a slow growth trajectory. We expect it to continue,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe accelerate a little bit going forward. There are multiple

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<v Speaker 1>opportunities to improve this business. As you could imagine the product,

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<v Speaker 1>I think the product is better than people think it is,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's not on par with some of the competitions,

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<v Speaker 1>so we look forward to improving it substantially. Both the

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<v Speaker 1>email client and the web portal. Will believe that there

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<v Speaker 1>is plenty of opportunity to improve the underlying technological foundations,

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<v Speaker 1>especially the advertising tech stack and the recommender system that

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<v Speaker 1>chooses what content you see on the web platform. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's one of the most exciting acquisitions we've carried

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<v Speaker 1>out in recent years.

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<v Speaker 4>Hey, listen, you and your co founders Luca hold one

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<v Speaker 4>hundred percent of the Class A shares and almost eighty

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<v Speaker 4>three percent of the voting rights. We've seen this with

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<v Speaker 4>some other tech companies. You're coming to market with a

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<v Speaker 4>controlled company structure and a highly acquisitive strategy. What decisions,

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<v Speaker 4>if any, should public minority shareholders realistically expect to influence

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<v Speaker 4>over time?

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<v Speaker 1>I think we will take input to heart. I'd like

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<v Speaker 1>to think we have a history of intellectual honesty and

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<v Speaker 1>open mindedness. These are key values internally and externally for us. Naturally,

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<v Speaker 1>if someone chooses to invest right now, we'd.

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<v Speaker 3>Have to.

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<v Speaker 1>Trust that you know, will make the right call. That's

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<v Speaker 1>what it is with this sort of governance, but I

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<v Speaker 1>certainly can promise we'll be will be listening, honestarily agreeing

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<v Speaker 1>with everything we're told, but listening for sure.

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<v Speaker 4>Hey listen, As you know, it's very different to be

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<v Speaker 4>a private entity and a publicly held company. What's top

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<v Speaker 4>of mind the pressures you think you might feel though

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<v Speaker 4>now as a publicly held company.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I haven't done it before. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>presume to know. I'm sure it's gonna suck in many ways.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll try to do our best not to succumb to

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<v Speaker 1>the pressure and a noise and stay focused on execution.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a plan for the next ten or twenty

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<v Speaker 1>years and it's going to be a challenge. We can't

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<v Speaker 1>afford to lose focus, so that that's the goal here. Stay,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, head down, work hard, stay rational. We'll see

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<v Speaker 1>we're optimistic, but I'm sure we could make mistakes, so

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<v Speaker 1>we gotta be careful.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I'll just tell you every quarter, those earnings reports,

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<v Speaker 4>we love to go over them. So we're looking forward

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<v Speaker 4>to your first earnings.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, are you going to go check out a World

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<v Speaker 2>Cup game while you're here?

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<v Speaker 1>I'd love to. I don't think i'll have time, but

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<v Speaker 1>I hear it's been great. People are talking about repeating

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<v Speaker 1>you know again in the States in four years, so

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<v Speaker 1>maybe that's yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the folks have something to say about that, Lucas,

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<v Speaker 2>thanks for joining us. Appreciate your time. Luca CEO of

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<v Speaker 2>Bending Spoons, the company going public today. Luca joining us

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<v Speaker 2>live from the Nasdaq