Speaker 1: We can say whatever you want. Your name and what
Speaker 1: you are on the Office. My name is Claire Scanlon
Speaker 1: and I was an editor on the Office from season
Speaker 1: five for five years through the finale. That was so
Speaker 1: long I can see. Okay, my name is Claire Scanlon
Speaker 1: and I was an editor on the Office. Hello everyone,
Speaker 1: that just made me laugh. Welcome back to the Office
Speaker 1: deep Dive where we dive deep into the Office. As
Speaker 1: the title indicates, I am your host, Brian Bonm Gartner.
Speaker 1: Today I have the absolute pleasure and privilege of bringing
Speaker 1: you my conversation with the one and only Claire ski
Speaker 1: end Lyn. Oh she's just great. Just wait, um. Claire
Speaker 1: was an editor on our show, a great one. In fact,
Speaker 1: she won an Emmy for editing the final episode. But
Speaker 1: one thing that was so special about the Office, and
Speaker 1: I know I've talked about this, but but you really
Speaker 1: you need to understand just how rare it is. There
Speaker 1: was a synergy, a real synergy between all of the
Speaker 1: members of the cast and of the crew. Everyone talked
Speaker 1: to everyone, everyone had input and value. Everyone could try
Speaker 1: on a new hat if they wanted. Even I a
Speaker 1: lowly actor, I could walk right up to the writer's
Speaker 1: room and tell them what I thought about something, or
Speaker 1: the editors area, the editing bay as we call it,
Speaker 1: and I have real conversations with Claire or with our
Speaker 1: other amazing editor, Dave Rodgers about the show. So ideas
Speaker 1: came from all different people, all of the time, right
Speaker 1: up until the very end. So the fact that Claire
Speaker 1: and I even have a relationship, her as an editor
Speaker 1: and me as an actor, that speaks to the extra
Speaker 1: special specialness of our set. And speaking of people taking
Speaker 1: on different roles, well, Claire also directed a couple of
Speaker 1: episodes of The Office, Yes, her first ever directing job,
Speaker 1: which of course has launched her into a full blown
Speaker 1: directing career. Yeah, Claire is kind of a big deal.
Speaker 1: If you watch television, there is no doubt you have
Speaker 1: seen something she has done, maybe The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
Speaker 1: or Brooklyn nine nine, or The Mindy Project or her
Speaker 1: recent film Set It Up. Oh, and did I mention
Speaker 1: that she won an Emmy for editing the finale of
Speaker 1: the Office. She's just too good. She's too good at
Speaker 1: at everything. Anyway, you will understand how stoked I was
Speaker 1: to get to see her and to talk to her.
Speaker 1: It was truly my pleasure. Here is my friend, the
Speaker 1: incredibly multi talented and impossibly brilliant Claire Scandling. Bubble and Squeak.
Speaker 1: I love it, Bubble and squeak on Bubble and Squeaker
Speaker 1: cookie every moment left over from the nubb before. How
Speaker 1: are you good? God? Golfing? What's going on? Why is
Speaker 1: it always about golfing? Working card outside? We can That's
Speaker 1: what I was, right, well, um, oh my gosh, how
Speaker 1: are you good? Good? Really good? I was like teasing.
Speaker 1: I was like this because in the emails, like conveniently located,
Speaker 1: I'm like Greg, and I brought a ton of pictures too,
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, it was really actually fun going to
Speaker 1: I haven't weirdly, I have a lot of pictures of you. Really.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I was, it's time to tell
Speaker 1: you the truth that I was totally obsessed with you
Speaker 1: and stopped you. You just didn't know what I did
Speaker 1: it very surreptitiously. Really. Yeah, see your pictures. I know
Speaker 1: I'm pulling pulling them up right now. The office. Um,
Speaker 1: there's one just that's like a rap some and you
Speaker 1: in the middle. This is like one of our story boards,
Speaker 1: you know, just like classic office storyboard. That's the very
Speaker 1: last next session, that's for the finality. Yeah, that's Matt,
Speaker 1: So in case you couldn't recognize him, he was Colonel Sanders,
Speaker 1: which having had just worked on I'm trying to be
Speaker 1: trying to be very diplomatic about this, but having just
Speaker 1: worked on another handheld show, it makes you really appreciate
Speaker 1: Matt and Sarah's work because it's such a skill, it's
Speaker 1: such an art, and so few people can do it well.
Speaker 1: So few. Well, it's crazy because they came from reality. Yes,
Speaker 1: but they knew how to construct the story. They knew
Speaker 1: not to go to you guys until you started speaking,
Speaker 1: which is such a palletic, artful thing that they never
Speaker 1: got credit for her because no one appreciates the storytelling
Speaker 1: they were doing and understanding the level of difficulty except
Speaker 1: other camera operators that would come and work on the
Speaker 1: show and fail. The editors really knew it, and the
Speaker 1: other people who tried and couldn't do it would like
Speaker 1: cut to you and be like, no, he Kevin hasn't
Speaker 1: spoken yet. You can't cut to Kevin because how do
Speaker 1: these the documentary filmmaker know that Kevin's going to speak? Right?
Speaker 1: I talked with Matt about this also, and I'd kind
Speaker 1: of forgotten about this. Really. The only way they cheated
Speaker 1: was they would have us do handles occasionally, right, So
Speaker 1: like Michael, yes, just to give them a reason to
Speaker 1: get over there, always looking for the reason right right
Speaker 1: that he knew to do. That was awesome. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like was editing on the Office more or less
Speaker 1: difficult because of the way that it was. Because it
Speaker 1: was incredibly difficult. It was not easier than a more
Speaker 1: studio style Hollywood typical Hollywood sitcom or single camp show,
Speaker 1: much much more difficult. But that said, you had so
Speaker 1: much creativity and so much leeway. I think because Greg
Speaker 1: and Paul Engen really respected the editor, the act of editing,
Speaker 1: the storytelling of editing, they gave so much leeway. So
Speaker 1: and they and especially Greg was not reverential with his
Speaker 1: scripts and himself as well, like when he would come
Speaker 1: into post, like take that talking head from act one
Speaker 1: and put it in three. And I remember doing casual
Speaker 1: Fridays and it was kind of too many storylines, way
Speaker 1: too long, and I was like, you know, this one
Speaker 1: needs how I was like, I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: I had cut this behemoth, you know, towards the end,
Speaker 1: they were all getting to be like forty minute long
Speaker 1: episodes and you're cutting a show out of the show.
Speaker 1: But this one in particular, I felt like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what we're going to do. And he was just genius,
Speaker 1: Like there was one Kelly Poor story that just became
Speaker 1: like almost like two shots and it was just like
Speaker 1: a little pop and it was so good as a
Speaker 1: result of it, and he just moved stuff every which way.
Speaker 1: Once he sees that your boss is doing that, it
Speaker 1: kind of gives you a freer hand to do it yourself,
Speaker 1: right Because I came on season five, so that's a
Speaker 1: great point. So before you started you were editing documentaries.
Speaker 1: This was the very first scripted television show I ever edited, period,
Speaker 1: So I like literally went from no scripted to the
Speaker 1: number one company. It was just like, wow, try by
Speaker 1: fire first, one go for it. I knew that if
Speaker 1: I didn't do a good job, I wouldn't get as back.
Speaker 1: Like it was that simple. And Dave Rogers was amazing
Speaker 1: and he always would watch my cuts, but initially especially
Speaker 1: with me, like this is what we do. Stays, don't
Speaker 1: cut away, don't pre lab stay on the joke, till
Speaker 1: the end, you know, like that was just something it
Speaker 1: would take kind of just like a more seasoned person
Speaker 1: to know. But then in other ways, I think because
Speaker 1: of my background, I was very comfortable with all of
Speaker 1: the shooting style, whereas I think other editors that would
Speaker 1: come on would be like, WHOA, what the heck? Um?
Speaker 1: I remember my job interview with Gen Sila out of
Speaker 1: Mike Sure, Paul Eversen, and Greg Daniel, so not an
Speaker 1: intimidating group at all to be interviewing me. I literally
Speaker 1: like almost knew too little to be intimidated, Like I
Speaker 1: should have been shaking that group, like, but I almost was.
Speaker 1: Just like I knew Paul socially from in our twenties.
Speaker 1: I knew him when he was writing. Clarissa explains it
Speaker 1: all personally. So what happened was a good friend of mine,
Speaker 1: Grady Cooper, who ended up editing quipond Um. He said, Hey, Claire,
Speaker 1: I heard there's a spinoff of the Office. Would you
Speaker 1: mind putting my name in the hat and giving it
Speaker 1: to Paul? And I called Paul and said, hey, my
Speaker 1: friend wants to put his name in the hat for
Speaker 1: the new show. And he's like, well, what about you.
Speaker 1: I was like what and he's like, what about you
Speaker 1: don't want to put your name in the hat? You're
Speaker 1: an editor too, And I said, okay, I never It
Speaker 1: just didn't even cross my mind that I would even
Speaker 1: have a chance. So Paul was conspicuously quiet in that
Speaker 1: meaning because I knew him, you know, socially. And I
Speaker 1: met Greg and Suzanne at Paul's birthday party one year.
Speaker 1: I think, um, and to me, they were like the
Speaker 1: grown ups, which is so funny. They were like the
Speaker 1: perhaps they had a kid already like I was in
Speaker 1: my twenties, and they were just so mature. They were
Speaker 1: so mature, and I remember thinking like, oh, that's the
Speaker 1: dad when I went into the interview, like that, he's
Speaker 1: a dad. And so I met with them. I said,
Speaker 1: I don't have any narrative editing background. I don't have
Speaker 1: I'm not this isn't my forte and I come from documentary.
Speaker 1: In fact, I've worked with a lot of your camera
Speaker 1: operators because we were all under the same roof at
Speaker 1: Mark Burnett Productions, and um, guys like that's a plus
Speaker 1: that you've never done narrative. And I do come from documentary.
Speaker 1: I don't really come as much from reality. I've done
Speaker 1: tons of docs before and weirdly docks on comedians. Um,
Speaker 1: I gravitated towards like Carol Burnett, a woman of character,
Speaker 1: carry grant a class apart Bob new Harden button and
Speaker 1: it didn't. I didn't set out with comedy in mind
Speaker 1: when I was I just kind of veered that way,
Speaker 1: like just like I don't know, it's kind of follow
Speaker 1: my lap that way. So Greg was very keen on
Speaker 1: the fact that I hadn't come up through the system,
Speaker 1: and I can see now in retrospect why that wasn't
Speaker 1: attractive quality, just and that you do thwart the script structure,
Speaker 1: which is like the script is Bible, and no other
Speaker 1: show runner lets you do that, Like can you imagine
Speaker 1: being on another show saying, oh, I put that three
Speaker 1: even though you wrote it in act one. But Greg
Speaker 1: two was also very reverential to the script on set.
Speaker 1: You know, if a director didn't shoot the words, he
Speaker 1: was pissed. But all fund runs. Improv is great, but
Speaker 1: you better have gotten at least one or two takes
Speaker 1: with the scripted. And then in post he didn't care
Speaker 1: like and post he's like, let me see it the
Speaker 1: way it was written, Okay, now let's throw everything up
Speaker 1: in the air and start over again, which was so liberating,
Speaker 1: and I think that's also what led to just a
Speaker 1: whole level of another layer of comedy that other shows
Speaker 1: didn't have that opportunity for. Like, you couldn't have done
Speaker 1: what we did with the b roll and the talking
Speaker 1: I mean, you could take a show that was way
Speaker 1: too long, if it was too much exposition, you just
Speaker 1: had someone do a talking head, and then you could
Speaker 1: delve right into the scene mid scene. You could just
Speaker 1: get rid of so much of the shoe leather. So
Speaker 1: it was just such an unusual show that way. I
Speaker 1: think obviously that mockumentary style worked because it worked for
Speaker 1: Parks and rec and Modern Family quite well. You know,
Speaker 1: other shows really were able to take that on and
Speaker 1: move forward with it. Yes, I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: that I would say better than The Office, but I
Speaker 1: would just say it was clearly a format that worked
Speaker 1: in comedy, and other comedies stemmed from that. I think
Speaker 1: that for me, what's interesting is that we had rules
Speaker 1: in terms of how the camera worked, things that we
Speaker 1: were not allowed to break. Randall's talked about like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do a shot if I can't
Speaker 1: physically get it. If we have two cameras and one
Speaker 1: cameras shooting from right behind Steve, then we can't shoot
Speaker 1: Steve front on, or we would see the camera right
Speaker 1: And he talked about one of Greg's sort of adages
Speaker 1: early on was everything that makes it harder makes it better.
Speaker 1: You know, if the angle wasn't perfect and you didn't
Speaker 1: have everybody's face, that led led to the voyeurism and
Speaker 1: the realness of it. And I think the show's after
Speaker 1: the Office that emulated. Yeah, no Parkinson MC didn't quite
Speaker 1: do it the same, which is fine. No, No, they
Speaker 1: didn't do it. And I think Modern Family they did
Speaker 1: a monitored family. I directed one, and I remember going
Speaker 1: in and you know, it's essentially construct that very heavily
Speaker 1: borrowed some you know, from the Office. I think they
Speaker 1: would all be very comfortable saying that. And I remember
Speaker 1: being like, well, let's get an over of cam doing this,
Speaker 1: and then we don't do overs. It's basically a percinium.
Speaker 1: It's a multi cam just with no audience, and that
Speaker 1: you have two cameras only just shooting us on my circle.
Speaker 1: It's just it was a very different way of shooting
Speaker 1: very percent like being on stage, but they also don't
Speaker 1: acknowledge that the cameras there except in the talk yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and the talking heads. I feel like Phil Dumpy sometimes
Speaker 1: just stairs in the camera, but not like Guilty. I
Speaker 1: feel like he's done that a couple of times. But
Speaker 1: I'm no expert on modern family. I did one, but
Speaker 1: I do think that well, I think there were so
Speaker 1: many special things about the office that are unlike other
Speaker 1: ones that have used that, you know, I think there
Speaker 1: was a willingness to be ugly. I think that's why
Speaker 1: the camera operators and the dps never got acknowledged, and
Speaker 1: nobody was going out of their way to be not
Speaker 1: under fluorescent lights. I mean, it was not a pretty set,
Speaker 1: and if it was, it would have been weird. So
Speaker 1: do you think they didn't get appreciated because I feel
Speaker 1: like so. I worked with director of photographies all the time,
Speaker 1: and you always want them on your side. Yet at
Speaker 1: the same time it's a constant battle with comedy. When
Speaker 1: I come onto a project, my goals, my objectives are
Speaker 1: almost diametrically opposed to what the dp's job is. The
Speaker 1: dp's job, especially if there's a woman in the scene
Speaker 1: is to make her beautiful. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Whereas
Speaker 1: when you said you had Randle in here and you
Speaker 1: were talking about soon they understood and accepted the world
Speaker 1: of the Office and the goal was comedy. Whereas I
Speaker 1: find myself having to say, I need this scene cross covered.
Speaker 1: I've got two comedy giants. Fill in the blank. On
Speaker 1: the Office, it was everybody was a comedy giant. So
Speaker 1: I have two comedy giants and I need I can't
Speaker 1: anticipate what they're gonna do and say, like, I need
Speaker 1: that coverage. What if one does something and there's an
Speaker 1: electricity in the take and you cannot recreate that. I
Speaker 1: don't care. When cutting the Mindy Project pilot, it was
Speaker 1: Ed and Mindy in a scene and they did all
Speaker 1: this beautiful studio style, but Ed and Mindy were griffing
Speaker 1: and doing great fun runs and I was screwed. You know,
Speaker 1: I was screwed. So I'm always pushing, especially when there's
Speaker 1: such strong comedy people to cross cover, and a DP
Speaker 1: will always fight. A typical DP that doesn't buy into
Speaker 1: the comedy and the joy of what it is to
Speaker 1: shoot comedy will always fight. But she's got to look beautiful.
Speaker 1: She's got to be lit this way, and it's always
Speaker 1: she for the most part. It's like I don't know
Speaker 1: where it's taught in cinematography school, but all women must
Speaker 1: be beautiful always at all times, like it's evil. Like
Speaker 1: Carol Burnett never adhered to that, and she was the
Speaker 1: number one person on television throughout the seventies, like think
Speaker 1: about Unice Unite was hideous, and she was the first
Speaker 1: to like make fun of her aesthetics. And yet she
Speaker 1: could come out every evening and do her Q and
Speaker 1: A and be gorgeous in a Bob mackiegown, you know.
Speaker 1: So like you know, she could bring it if she
Speaker 1: wanted to be beautiful, But where's the fun and that
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a struggle, it's and it's truly
Speaker 1: a conversation I have to have every time, you know.
Speaker 1: So I I just you caught me on a terror
Speaker 1: on something that I feel very passionately about. And I
Speaker 1: think coming up through the office where it was a given, Oh,
Speaker 1: this doesn't look like right? Who cares? They're hilarious, Like
Speaker 1: I don't care. You know, well, that's something that I think, well,
Speaker 1: quite obviously, the face of television in a way began
Speaker 1: to change with our show. Yeah, And I also think
Speaker 1: the egalitarian nature of the Office was something wonderful and
Speaker 1: desperately needed. And I think what was so wonderful is
Speaker 1: how all the characters just very slightly and almost it
Speaker 1: just seemed like so organically like it just seemed that
Speaker 1: you sort of just started to fall in love with
Speaker 1: the regular guy and the regular girl, you know, so
Speaker 1: like and on the Office, the regular guy of the
Speaker 1: regular girl could be Stanley and it could be Oscar.
Speaker 1: And I think this was a time when you weren't
Speaker 1: seeing that much diversity in primetime television, especially in comedy.
Speaker 1: But see, it's interesting what you're saying right now. It
Speaker 1: never felt intention No, that's what I'm saying. I think
Speaker 1: it was like, well, I said slyly, but I don't
Speaker 1: know that it was Greg or your intentions, the writer's
Speaker 1: intention to be like, let's make America love the everyman.
Speaker 1: This wasn't like Willie Lohman time. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: think that that was their agenda. I do know, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure Greg's talked about the differences between season one
Speaker 1: and season two and the mandate, because I think that
Speaker 1: was huge, you know, humanizing Michael in a way that
Speaker 1: you needed to from season one, and I think even
Speaker 1: though the mandate was specifically directed at Michael, this humanitarianism
Speaker 1: kind of slipped down to all of the character. Yes
Speaker 1: when yours with Holly of course is a famous one,
Speaker 1: but like even someone is arch as Angela once in
Speaker 1: a while, just seeing that glimpse of vulnerability and you
Speaker 1: show me vulnerability, I'm on board with that character for life.
Speaker 1: And I think the opposite that was every single person
Speaker 1: practically on the show. Like I remember, I remember when
Speaker 1: Ellie came on. She came on just a little after me,
Speaker 1: and so we were kind of like the new girls.
Speaker 1: And I didn't know how you guys introduced new characters.
Speaker 1: I didn't know, like the writers just let them flounder
Speaker 1: and they waited for the actor to show them who
Speaker 1: they were. And it either worked her didn't. Obviously with
Speaker 1: Ellie Kemper it worked. But I remember cutting Secretary's Day
Speaker 1: and she had a scene where Michael took her like
Speaker 1: Michael was very resistant but was told you gotta take
Speaker 1: your secretary out to launch hot Secretary's Day, it's the rule.
Speaker 1: And then she has a meltdown and I remember thinking like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's going to make it because I didn't know, Like
Speaker 1: I didn't hadn't seen much of her work before that.
Speaker 1: She was given like, hi, I'm Aren. You know. It
Speaker 1: was a great scene and she was definitely driving it,
Speaker 1: and he was the reactor to everything that she was doing,
Speaker 1: and she gave him great stuff to work with. And
Speaker 1: in this I was like, she's got the chops. She
Speaker 1: can play with Michael. I mean, she can play with
Speaker 1: Steve Carrell, so she's gonna make it. So I think
Speaker 1: that it was a very intimidate. I remember when Kathy
Speaker 1: Bates came on, she was I hope this is okay
Speaker 1: to say, but like we were cutting her first few
Speaker 1: takes and her voice was a little warbly. She was
Speaker 1: so nervous and she told you guys like and everyone
Speaker 1: was like, you're freaking Oscar Winner, How are you nervous
Speaker 1: to come play with us? You know this is a low,
Speaker 1: this is a nice She's like, you don't get it,
Speaker 1: you don't get it. And I think I feel like
Speaker 1: even I don't know that any of us got it.
Speaker 1: Because it was popular and I knew it was good.
Speaker 1: I knew it made me feel something in my heart.
Speaker 1: But just this whole like kids watching it now, and
Speaker 1: I mean, it can only imagine what it's like to
Speaker 1: be in your shoes, like not being able to watch
Speaker 1: down the street. I don't even more so than when
Speaker 1: it was on the air. Weird. It is weird, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think by the way, of course, it's she's
Speaker 1: cant it's it wore off. You know, she's not the
Speaker 1: when did you see on TV? The episodes don't have that,
Speaker 1: but I just remember being bowled over by that and
Speaker 1: how it seems so easy from the inside and then
Speaker 1: coming in from the outside, How was it for you
Speaker 1: when you came in? I mean, you know, I can
Speaker 1: speak to this. There were two hires. You probably don't
Speaker 1: know this, but season five they hired two editors, me
Speaker 1: and another one. And without me really getting it because
Speaker 1: it was so new to me, I just saw, oh, well,
Speaker 1: if we're all good, we'll all just stay and we'll
Speaker 1: go in the next season. I'm so dumb, like not
Speaker 1: realizing like they're just gonna go with one. This is
Speaker 1: a test, it's a survivor. It was awful, Like I'm
Speaker 1: so glad I was ignorant of it. And my very
Speaker 1: first season season five um. The episode I did with
Speaker 1: Paul Feig was nominated for an Emmy for Best Editing,
Speaker 1: So like, boom, I've never done a narrative before and
Speaker 1: I get my first narrative. I mean, like, it's so
Speaker 1: unfair because I feel like I came into the most
Speaker 1: popular comedy and then I got nominated for Best Editing,
Speaker 1: but like I did not even I was like when
Speaker 1: I realized that it was kind of it was going
Speaker 1: to be one or the other. I was so grateful
Speaker 1: that I got nominated for an Emmy because I felt
Speaker 1: like if I hadn't the other one had, then how
Speaker 1: do you not, Like I still think they would have
Speaker 1: hired me, but like that would have been harder to explain,
Speaker 1: Like wait, how do you not go with the person
Speaker 1: that cut you a Emy nomination? It was just like
Speaker 1: very all good luck happened that year. It was kind
Speaker 1: of bounders, so you learned to edit scripted shows on
Speaker 1: the office, but really coming from you know, documentary, specifically
Speaker 1: comedy documentaries, this felt comfortable. Yeah, and also, by the way,
Speaker 1: like that same camaraderie that led to such a strong ensemble,
Speaker 1: it extended through I remember talking to John about this
Speaker 1: one time and we were just sitting I think he
Speaker 1: directed an episode. You know, I was ahead, so I
Speaker 1: would come to stick John, I think you need to
Speaker 1: get this shot, you know, like you need to get
Speaker 1: this because otherwise how do we It was the bulldozer
Speaker 1: Rain was taking a bulldozer in the warehouse and smashing
Speaker 1: it to the wall, and you needed the reverse and
Speaker 1: and I was like, I think you need that reverse,
Speaker 1: and we were in there and he's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: no ego, Like it was fine for me to tell
Speaker 1: John and he needed this shot. Like I would come
Speaker 1: to set a lot, Dave would come to set a
Speaker 1: lot and there was like that's not normal, like that
Speaker 1: you always are inviting that. By the way, I always
Speaker 1: asked the editor to come to set. Why wouldn't I
Speaker 1: want an extra pair of eyes that might be catching something?
Speaker 1: Because I'm in the thick of it with five other questions,
Speaker 1: like why wouldn't I want someone having my back. It's
Speaker 1: just a lovely thing to have. It's not about ego
Speaker 1: or power. Being a no tour, there's no such thing.
Speaker 1: First of all. But with John, we were cutting his
Speaker 1: episode and I remember just being like, this is such
Speaker 1: a cool place to work, like being just truly grateful,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I am happy to come in
Speaker 1: here every day. And I was like He's like yeah,
Speaker 1: He's like, there's not one person like that you want
Speaker 1: to like put your head down when you see them
Speaker 1: walking down the hall. He's like, there's not one person
Speaker 1: that I'm like avoid, like where you're like in high
Speaker 1: school or your first job or something, or like that
Speaker 1: person sucks. He's like, there's not one. There were over
Speaker 1: a hundred people there and he couldn't come. And we,
Speaker 1: by the way, we were totally gossiping, like he could
Speaker 1: have told me that there was no reason. There's no
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't tell this story if he actually
Speaker 1: named somebody, like but like we were like, come on,
Speaker 1: there's gotta be somebody. Like everyone had their charm, you know,
Speaker 1: like everyone had the quirks, their piccadillos. Greg could drive
Speaker 1: me crazy and I would talk to him about it.
Speaker 1: But like that's crazy right there, Like the show runner
Speaker 1: could drive me crazy, and then I could say, Greg,
Speaker 1: you're driving me crazy. Like I remember on the finale,
Speaker 1: there was this whole tangent and I'm sure you'll remember
Speaker 1: this about planting a tree. Andy sees the tree in
Speaker 1: the office and says that tree Planty. Yes, exactly, Planty
Speaker 1: has been in here all its life. We've got to
Speaker 1: set Planty free. And you guys go out to the
Speaker 1: parking lot, you plant Planty, and then you go all
Speaker 1: the way back up to the office and then the
Speaker 1: ending and you hug, and then you go to the
Speaker 1: parking lot and you go to your respective cars, And
Speaker 1: that's truly the end of leaving dunder Mifflin and UM.
Speaker 1: I was writing notes down and we were over time
Speaker 1: for the finale, and we were all Greg was incredibly emotional,
Speaker 1: but doing that guy thing where you don't let on
Speaker 1: that you're emotional, so you're just kind of weird, you know,
Speaker 1: like where you're just like heretic and sometimes irrational, but
Speaker 1: like what you really want to say is I'm really sad,
Speaker 1: but you're not going to say those words because you're
Speaker 1: a guy. So I was just taking out notes. We
Speaker 1: were too long, and I had already pitched to cut Planty,
Speaker 1: and I truly believed he said, okay, while we tried
Speaker 1: cutting Planty, and I wrote it down and I did
Speaker 1: it and it was better because not because that whole
Speaker 1: styling wasn't interesting, but it was just almost just the
Speaker 1: physicality of being in the office, having Creed play the
Speaker 1: song and then taking Planting down to the parking lot,
Speaker 1: and it was like a hiccup to something wonderful. You
Speaker 1: didn't need that hiccup. It's it was just an unnecessary
Speaker 1: extra beat. As sweet and poignant as it was, there
Speaker 1: were already like ten sweet and poignant moments that were
Speaker 1: happening with Creed song, and too much poignancy diluted what
Speaker 1: was there. So I cut planting and Howard happened to
Speaker 1: be walking by and I showed it to Howard, and
Speaker 1: Greg's assistant Alyssa was also walking by, and I showed
Speaker 1: it to her, and they both separately went to Greg
Speaker 1: and said, oh my god, it's so much better without planting.
Speaker 1: And he came storming into my bay and he said,
Speaker 1: you you put that back in? How dare you? I
Speaker 1: never did. You're sabotaging me. You're trying to get and
Speaker 1: I was like what he was at a hundred? I
Speaker 1: was like, bring it down. I said, first of all,
Speaker 1: I would never intentionally do something to sabotage you that.
Speaker 1: I was like, if you don't know that about me
Speaker 1: by now, I am just I am not that person.
Speaker 1: I'm just I don't even think I could sabotage someone
Speaker 1: if I tried, Like if that was my goal, I said,
Speaker 1: you created this show. I am here, whose service what
Speaker 1: you created? And help you realize what you want. And
Speaker 1: he calmed down, like he was like, so first let's
Speaker 1: get this paranoia out. Is that they happened to be
Speaker 1: walking by, which was true on both counts. They have
Speaker 1: maybe and that would happen all the time. By the way,
Speaker 1: we would just be wide by whether doors open, because
Speaker 1: it would get in sufferably hot and interesting things that
Speaker 1: I would walk by a people's bays and poke my
Speaker 1: head And it was just a very inclusive environment. When
Speaker 1: people are waiting for their next scene and they were
Speaker 1: born to being in their trailer, they'd come and show
Speaker 1: me something and it wasn't show me myself. It was like, hey,
Speaker 1: what you got this funny show me a funny scene,
Speaker 1: Like I just want to see what's going on in
Speaker 1: the show, Like actors would come in all the time.
Speaker 1: So he said, okay, we'll show me, and then I
Speaker 1: showed it to him and he's like, okay, leave it out.
Speaker 1: But like it was like I had to talk him
Speaker 1: off alledge. I think that's what makes him so interesting
Speaker 1: is he does clearly have and I think it was
Speaker 1: for the better ultimately for the show. This I don't
Speaker 1: want to say inferiority complex, but this like someone's always
Speaker 1: going to try to get one over on me kind
Speaker 1: of and going on like and you're just you almost
Speaker 1: have to, Like like with every coworker and or boss,
Speaker 1: I think you kind of have to just to really
Speaker 1: get to know their psychology. And you're working with this,
Speaker 1: you know, pound gorilla, Greg Daniels, who's so so so
Speaker 1: smart and so funny that like to stand up to
Speaker 1: him require some hotspun your own, and it's kind of empowering.
Speaker 1: And I always did it. I didn't always, you know,
Speaker 1: I had confidence in what he had created, so I
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure it was the best version of
Speaker 1: what was written and acted, and I'd make good arguments
Speaker 1: and then he'd make great counter argument. We have a
Speaker 1: really good discourse to get to lock and I think
Speaker 1: that was also very unique and special. You know, I
Speaker 1: always have Greg in my head when I'm directing, because
Speaker 1: I heard his opinion on everybody else's, you know, as
Speaker 1: an editor, I heard what he thought of every director,
Speaker 1: and he thought the world of many and then like
Speaker 1: sometimes he'd be like, how could they not have gotten that?
Speaker 1: Like and I always in my mind like let's just
Speaker 1: do one more, like thinking like what didn't I get?
Speaker 1: What would? I'd be like, how can they gotten that?
Speaker 1: You know? I always want to have that showrunner in
Speaker 1: the back of my head saying and that show runner's voice,
Speaker 1: because Greg was my first is always Greg. Right, did
Speaker 1: you feel anything? Um, I mean, you were the only
Speaker 1: woman editor. Was that a thing for you? Did you
Speaker 1: feel no? If anything? Like I remember like so much
Speaker 1: personal stuff going now for me, Jenna coming into my office,
Speaker 1: shutting the door and be like this is what you
Speaker 1: need to do, like just giving it to me, no nonsense.
Speaker 1: I mean, if anything, I feel like, um, gender was
Speaker 1: just not even an issue. And you know when people
Speaker 1: saw that there was a problem, it was such a
Speaker 1: close knit group that people actually did something about it.
Speaker 1: Like they didn't just like sit and let you like
Speaker 1: kind of fester in a corner, and they were like, hey,
Speaker 1: let me poke you, let me help you. I think
Speaker 1: in any I wish more women directors had been there.
Speaker 1: I wish it wasn't just me Mindy and Jen. There
Speaker 1: were three women directors and we were all in house, right,
Speaker 1: Denny came, there was one woman director. But before before
Speaker 1: your time, I will say, and I mean, this is
Speaker 1: not to besmirch anybody, and I'm not trying to be controversial.
Speaker 1: And you've heard like how wonderful. Of course, I will say,
Speaker 1: I just don't think in two thousand and four people
Speaker 1: were thinking like this, like I just don't think it was.
Speaker 1: It was like here's your here's your stable, here's the
Speaker 1: people they do comedy. Go. But that said, I will
Speaker 1: speak to the writer's room. The writer's room was conspicuously
Speaker 1: lack of diversity, homogeneous white guys from Harvard, Like, that's
Speaker 1: just a And when I got there, Ellie said, Hey,
Speaker 1: my sister is a writer. I feel weird. Would you
Speaker 1: give her worked? Paul, who's the show owner then? And
Speaker 1: I said, Paul, your male to female ratio in the
Speaker 1: writer's room is abysmal. And this is really I read this.
Speaker 1: It's a one. It's about a Doug committing suicide in
Speaker 1: it was really funny and I was like, this is
Speaker 1: Carrie Kemper, it's all sister, but it's good, Like don't
Speaker 1: let that you know, don't let that nepotism scare you off.
Speaker 1: And here we had no nepotism issues on our show. Really,
Speaker 1: that said he interviewed her, It was good because that
Speaker 1: would have been a hard thing if she hadn't been
Speaker 1: able to write. But it got better, and I do
Speaker 1: think that it was just like, I don't think there
Speaker 1: was malice. I think that's the way it happens in
Speaker 1: every writer's room and every and it's like, hey, I
Speaker 1: got a show. The people I trust came out of
Speaker 1: school with me. Oh, I just happened to go to
Speaker 1: Harvard and write for lampoo. I don't think it's malicious,
Speaker 1: like Conan O'Brien's like, hey, Greg, come out. I'm working
Speaker 1: on this great show called The Simpsons. You should really
Speaker 1: check it out. Thanking of the Hill. Then, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's an agenda. I'm just glad that. Um,
Speaker 1: it got better over the course of the years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what we talked about this a little bit, but I
Speaker 1: don't want to miss it. If there's something what specifically
Speaker 1: made editing the Office harder than a traditional show, um,
Speaker 1: I think it was the volume. Let's start with the volume.
Speaker 1: The scripts were long, so I think you were, I
Speaker 1: think you'd have like seven days to complete your cut,
Speaker 1: so you figure, if it's a forty page script, which
Speaker 1: more and more often they were, you were cutting a
Speaker 1: forty minute assembly or editor's cut, and then from that
Speaker 1: there were just so many steps to get it to time,
Speaker 1: and cutting twenty minutes out of a forty minute show
Speaker 1: is it's kind of bonkers. I mean, that's why I
Speaker 1: think the NBC dot Com came up, The Accountants and
Speaker 1: all of those great spinoffs, which at the time webisodes
Speaker 1: were great. I mean we do webisodes and deleted scenes.
Speaker 1: I mean it was you could use the word overshooting.
Speaker 1: I mean I liked it because I remember Ed was
Speaker 1: once saying like, this is crazy that we're shooting. This
Speaker 1: is crazy. That's what we're doing. This is not fair.
Speaker 1: We were working as to the book, like it's not
Speaker 1: it's not normal. But it made the show better because
Speaker 1: we had so many different Like I remember, there was
Speaker 1: a storyline it was Jim and Pam had a silent fight,
Speaker 1: and it was established you track it throughout the day.
Speaker 1: It was really well done, well directed, well acted, and
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Jim or Pam I
Speaker 1: can't even remember at this point says I'm really sorry,
Speaker 1: and they hold hands in the parking lot as they
Speaker 1: walked to their car, and it's resolved. Or I don't
Speaker 1: even know that anyone apologizes. I think it just looks
Speaker 1: and no one will ever know that storyline, you know,
Speaker 1: like all these and that when that one didn't even
Speaker 1: make it to deleted scenes, and now it was really good,
Speaker 1: Like there were so many good C D e F
Speaker 1: storylines never got to see, right, Yeah, they're somewhere buried
Speaker 1: in avid Um archives. So you did an interview with
Speaker 1: on the Ringer and you said, when you do documentaries,
Speaker 1: you have to be comprehensive and watch everything that the
Speaker 1: subject has ever done. And you said, subliminably, subliminably, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's Michael Scott, subliminably through osmosis. I was
Speaker 1: getting my comedy doctorate watching the best of the best,
Speaker 1: comprehensively seeing everything they've ever done. So as a result,
Speaker 1: I kept working towards comedy. Um. Was there anything in
Speaker 1: terms of comedy that you learned from the office. I
Speaker 1: remember I had a quote board, and I don't see
Speaker 1: if I can find it on my quote board. I don't.
Speaker 1: It was like a white board, and um, I had
Speaker 1: one quest and I never put who said what? But um,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you who was. There was one I heard
Speaker 1: is I do have it. I'll say it directly. I
Speaker 1: compulled some of that air out and then it says
Speaker 1: there's a lot of comedy in that air. And it
Speaker 1: was me trying to get a show to time, and
Speaker 1: I said, I could, you know, rather than cut stuff,
Speaker 1: I can pull some are out. And it was Paul
Speaker 1: Eberstine who's like, there's a lot of comedy in that air,
Speaker 1: and I think it's letting things breathe. It's just such
Speaker 1: a pacing issue. It's a dance. It's a rhythm. They say,
Speaker 1: if you know, if if you're a good dancer, you'll
Speaker 1: be a good editor, or you can't be a good
Speaker 1: editor unless you can dance, because it's all pacing in rhythm.
Speaker 1: And that's so true, and that's why those reaction passes
Speaker 1: was like kind of gold for us, you know, just
Speaker 1: when a scene wasn't working, just anyone. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: the famous gym. Every two seconds is like commenting for
Speaker 1: you and you're saying, but I also liked it when
Speaker 1: it was coming from someone else's point Jim was the
Speaker 1: great entree in the first few seasons, but I feel
Speaker 1: like everyone had their own particular take on the comedy,
Speaker 1: which would make that reaction that much more powerful. Like
Speaker 1: going to create oblivious, you know, that's just as funny,
Speaker 1: like not like everyone's like, what's going on in there?
Speaker 1: And he's just like, you're not even paying a dungeon,
Speaker 1: Like that's funny too. I just found another picture of
Speaker 1: you and me. This is I like this picture so
Speaker 1: much because this picture is us eating lunch together. Like
Speaker 1: that's like it was like high school, right, Like we're
Speaker 1: just sitting and we all, like you just sat down
Speaker 1: and ate with people. You know, that's not the norm
Speaker 1: on other shows. It just doesn't. And you know, we
Speaker 1: were there long enough that people went through big life stuff.
Speaker 1: Like not to get into too much detail, but I
Speaker 1: got divorced on the office, and I can tell you
Speaker 1: there's no other job I would have wanted to have
Speaker 1: been on during that hard time. You know. I remember
Speaker 1: going to a table read once and being like, Paul,
Speaker 1: I have to go to my therapists and he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: co go, you know, you know, like just a given,
Speaker 1: like just such a warm, welcoming just a really really
Speaker 1: I think from the top down, you know, you had
Speaker 1: Ken koppas Greg Daniels, Steve Carrell, So which one of
Speaker 1: those guys is a jackass? It's going to make your
Speaker 1: life a living out? And I'm just think those are
Speaker 1: I mean I barely worked with Ken and after the
Speaker 1: office he kind of took me under his wing when
Speaker 1: I was starting to direct more and was just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you can do this, you know, and he would just
Speaker 1: like I remember the first show, one of the first
Speaker 1: shows I got was a show called um oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was called something men in
Speaker 1: the title. Anyway, it was canceled, but he was helping
Speaker 1: me prep. He was just like, Okay, what's your biggest scene.
Speaker 1: Let's talk it through, Like just really just kind kind
Speaker 1: kind and like saying with Greg Daniels. I did a
Speaker 1: movie called Set it Up. He came in the first
Speaker 1: person I wanted to show it too was Greg Daniels, Like,
Speaker 1: come into post, what's good, what's bad. There's this moment
Speaker 1: where these two are having this conversation and it's like
Speaker 1: she the girl, is holding the guy to task for
Speaker 1: his bad acts, and Greg's like, you need to be
Speaker 1: in a close up here. You need to see the
Speaker 1: moment where she changes her mind and she's letting him
Speaker 1: back him he's so good, Like he's just so good.
Speaker 1: He's like, you need to see her opening the door
Speaker 1: and he was dead right. No one touched that scene
Speaker 1: after Greg, which is really neat. You know. So you start,
Speaker 1: much like Matt Soon Randall them as camera people. In reality,
Speaker 1: you're editing documentaries. You come on the office and then
Speaker 1: you start directing. You've talked about it a little bit
Speaker 1: up to now. It was something that occurred to me.
Speaker 1: You know, you become a director from a very particular background,
Speaker 1: right like editing, assembling and post and Matt Soon and
Speaker 1: Randall like from a really from a camera perspective. But
Speaker 1: the thing that I remember is people on your side
Speaker 1: wanting to have conversations with actors about like how because
Speaker 1: that was something that was new. Did you feel that
Speaker 1: as well? I remember Ken quab Is giving me some
Speaker 1: great advice. He said, everyone there has a job to do.
Speaker 1: Sound Guys got to do so and make sure it
Speaker 1: sounds good. Actors have to be true to their characters.
Speaker 1: Writers have to make sure the jokes are told correctly
Speaker 1: and the story is told dps to make sure everyone
Speaker 1: is on camera that should be and it's blocked correctly
Speaker 1: along with the director. But he said, but the director's
Speaker 1: most important job is to represent the audience. And if
Speaker 1: the director doesn't get it, the director has to raise
Speaker 1: their hand and be the pain in the ass and
Speaker 1: say this isn't working, and that nobody wants to do that.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants. Everyone's gonna look at you and be like,
Speaker 1: oh the funk. I want to go home to my family.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this. We're just and I've
Speaker 1: had to like be you have to be unpopular sometimes
Speaker 1: to do that, and I it was such helpful advice,
Speaker 1: you know. And I remember I was I was setting
Speaker 1: up a scene and here comes trouble in the conference room.
Speaker 1: It was a party, and um Greene came in and
Speaker 1: he was like, oh no, no, no, I don't think
Speaker 1: I would be here, and we'd already we'd rehearsed it,
Speaker 1: and he's like, this is working. So he's like, I
Speaker 1: think I should do this. This isn't He gave his
Speaker 1: opinion and I was like, okay, let's do that, and
Speaker 1: we started and it didn't work at all, and we
Speaker 1: had to come back to the way I had it done,
Speaker 1: and it was like, oh, I had done my homework.
Speaker 1: I had a reason for I'd really worked, like I
Speaker 1: take prep very seriously. And I understand why Rain came
Speaker 1: at me because he didn't I didn't. He didn't have
Speaker 1: confidence in me, Like why should he. It was my
Speaker 1: second episode of Dragon TV ever, and so just learning
Speaker 1: that dance of like when to speak up, when to
Speaker 1: stand back, and then slowly gain trust. I mean that's
Speaker 1: everything is gaining trust and then proving myself. Like so,
Speaker 1: I remember there was a scene with John and he
Speaker 1: was walking out with Jenna and and he's like, I
Speaker 1: think we should have You know, John, a lot of
Speaker 1: the times had really good ideas. I wish he came
Speaker 1: up with them before we lit. He'd always come up
Speaker 1: with such he was like he would dial in when
Speaker 1: it was actually the cameras up and at Jim would
Speaker 1: never do this, and we would always say, you're absolutely
Speaker 1: right Brown University. Why didn't you come back and bring
Speaker 1: that Brown University education to the rehearsal? Where was your
Speaker 1: head in? So um, He's like, I think it worked
Speaker 1: better this way, and he said, let's let's try that
Speaker 1: and and let's do John's way, and then he did
Speaker 1: it a couple of times he like your way was better.
Speaker 1: So like it was just like finding that like dance
Speaker 1: of like working with people gaining trust. And then after
Speaker 1: that I felt like, Okay, I could do this. But
Speaker 1: I remember the first day was like starting with talking heads.
Speaker 1: It was a very gentle entree into directing, and Paul
Speaker 1: would come for every rehearsal and there were lots of
Speaker 1: safety nuts for me that first week. But I remember
Speaker 1: halfway through the day of my first day ever directing,
Speaker 1: already two questions or lobbed your way that morning and
Speaker 1: I was like I can do this, I can do this.
Speaker 1: It was lunch. I was like collecting myself and I
Speaker 1: was like, why would anyone want to do this? Like
Speaker 1: I was literally and then by the end of the
Speaker 1: day I turned the corner and I was like I
Speaker 1: want to do this, like but it was that halfway
Speaker 1: mark was like brutal kind of Okay, I can I
Speaker 1: can do this. I can do this, and then coming
Speaker 1: around and be like, oh, not only can, I want
Speaker 1: to and that's what you do now, And that's what
Speaker 1: I mean. I never stopped loving editing. I love directing,
Speaker 1: but I really there's something there's your building a world
Speaker 1: in an edit bay, and um writers create out of
Speaker 1: the blue sky. But I feel like editors are like
Speaker 1: sculptors that work with negative space and they shave it
Speaker 1: away and it's a different kind of writing. And I
Speaker 1: think there's something wonderful about seeing what something can be
Speaker 1: and realizing it. Like I felt that way so strongly.
Speaker 1: I was so proud of the finale of the series.
Speaker 1: There's this one pam talking head that like, I can't
Speaker 1: wait to show my daughter when she's older, where she says,
Speaker 1: you know, this has been such an amazing experience and
Speaker 1: the documentary has been so invaluable. If I could talk
Speaker 1: to my younger self, I wish I could have told
Speaker 1: her to seize the moment sooner and just stand up
Speaker 1: for yourself and go for it. Like it was so powerful.
Speaker 1: I just even thinking about it makes me like misty
Speaker 1: because it's just like, as a woman, you were just
Speaker 1: not seeing that on TV, you know, and it was
Speaker 1: such a powerful message. So it was a really that
Speaker 1: was a really special just the whole ending was sad
Speaker 1: and special, and it's all a blur because we were
Speaker 1: also pulling all nighters when we were doing it, but
Speaker 1: it was so worth it, and I think we all
Speaker 1: knew when it came to an end that one it
Speaker 1: was the right time, and to that we've all been
Speaker 1: part of something extraordinary. You're proud of how we ended?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, are you? I mean the last
Speaker 1: two I mean ARM could have been a a RM
Speaker 1: could have been the finale as well. I feel like
Speaker 1: both episodes are so strong, but like having Steve come
Speaker 1: back was great. That was such a special day too,
Speaker 1: you know when he came for the wedding and you
Speaker 1: guys didn't know. You guys know some some some people
Speaker 1: knew obviously, the studio didn't know. The network and studio,
Speaker 1: we're piss We hit the dailies, we went to another
Speaker 1: we outsourced thumb. They never knew and it aired. They
Speaker 1: saw the morning it aired. They were so pissed, really,
Speaker 1: they were piste. Well what we didn't want them to
Speaker 1: promo it and it would have you know, he would
Speaker 1: have been in the promo. And Greg had such a
Speaker 1: guilty conscience and he's like, all these people are asking
Speaker 1: if he's coming back, and we have to lie and
Speaker 1: say no. And he's like Ken don't you feel like
Speaker 1: an awful person for lying to everybody and kids like
Speaker 1: not at all. I feel I feel nothing. I don't care.
Speaker 1: He didn't want them to ruin it. So what we
Speaker 1: did was, yeah, it was great, and you won for
Speaker 1: that episode, yeah, Dave and I. So I was cutting
Speaker 1: the first half and Dave was cutting the second half,
Speaker 1: and then Greg swapped us halfway through and he said, Claire,
Speaker 1: you finish, and Dave you start with the beginning. And
Speaker 1: it was like a mind fun because that's the air.
Speaker 1: You don't I've seen all the dailies. I've seen every
Speaker 1: inch of it, and then you're just swapping it out
Speaker 1: and it was crushing. But then it was great, you know,
Speaker 1: like fresh eyes and everything. So I think that is
Speaker 1: really great. And Dave and I hit at that point,
Speaker 1: we're just like Ying and Yang. We were very very new,
Speaker 1: very much what each other's strengths were. And he just
Speaker 1: he'd been there since season one, so I mean, he
Speaker 1: just was such a He's an encyclopedia. He's so much
Speaker 1: better at me. Like people will throw out a certain
Speaker 1: episode like okay, what season, Like he just knows that said.
Speaker 1: I also haven't gone back and watched them in a
Speaker 1: long time like form for me, someone bring up some
Speaker 1: serious emotions like Niagara or something like. That was such
Speaker 1: a great episode to edit. It was wonderful because there
Speaker 1: was music like I also cut the scene in arm
Speaker 1: even though Dave and I would share like so if
Speaker 1: I was ahead, I would just take some scenes from him,
Speaker 1: and I was. I was good at doing I've done
Speaker 1: all these like documentaries where you had to do these
Speaker 1: opening montages. So for the Jim and Pam, the video
Speaker 1: that Jim gives Pam, I cut that to snow Patrol
Speaker 1: in Dave's episode because I like doing those things and
Speaker 1: he hates doing those things. And um and I got
Speaker 1: to do the Niagara a dancing thing to the Chris
Speaker 1: Brown song and that was really fun. And I remember
Speaker 1: getting to use Randall's footage that he shot I feel
Speaker 1: like Super eight and Niarea. They went to Niagara Falls,
Speaker 1: and I think he I know he shot film. I
Speaker 1: don't think it was Super sixteen, but it could have
Speaker 1: been Super sixteen. Yeah, you know, it was probably Super sixteen.
Speaker 1: It was not shitty enough to be Super and I
Speaker 1: remember seeing and so this was very much like cutting
Speaker 1: a documentary because they didn't speak so Um, there's the
Speaker 1: last scene of Niagara where Jim and Pam are on
Speaker 1: the bow of the boat and he puts his arm
Speaker 1: around her and he looks right into the camera and
Speaker 1: he just like it's not even like cocky, it's just
Speaker 1: like sweet, like I got her, you know. And Jim,
Speaker 1: John and Jenna came into my bay to see it.
Speaker 1: They were like, we need to see this show. We
Speaker 1: need to sign off on this big, big one. And
Speaker 1: after that, I'd like turned around and they're bawling, and
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, because that's all you want to
Speaker 1: do is make people cry, like you were in comment
Speaker 1: but like for the poignant moments, all you want is
Speaker 1: to make people gray. It was awesome. It was awesome
Speaker 1: then coming in there and seeing we kind of shared
Speaker 1: this and no one else will know that, you know,
Speaker 1: but it was really a sweet moment to be a
Speaker 1: part of in their journey, you know, and just almost
Speaker 1: be just a witness to it. Um, put on the headphones.
Speaker 1: I just want to play one thing for you here.
Speaker 1: This is from the finale that you cut. I thought
Speaker 1: it was weird when you picked us to make a documentary,
Speaker 1: but all in all, I think an ordinary paper company
Speaker 1: like dunder Mifflin was a great subject for a documentary.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that
Speaker 1: kind of the point? So Greg having written that, clearly
Speaker 1: he thinks that's what the point was. What did you
Speaker 1: think I was of the office? I don't know if
Speaker 1: he talked about this, but he told me that whenever
Speaker 1: he was stimied or stuck, the moral compass of the
Speaker 1: show was was Pam. And whenever he was stuck and
Speaker 1: what would what would Pam do? Here? He would actually
Speaker 1: say what would Suzanne do here? Did he tell you this? Oh?
Speaker 1: It's it's like the best love letter. I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm speaking out of school here. I thought that was
Speaker 1: like the most romantic thing to say. You know, he
Speaker 1: loves his wife so much he put her in Pam.
Speaker 1: He basically created this whole series. You think it's Michael Scott,
Speaker 1: but it's also Pam. She is the moral compass of
Speaker 1: the show, and she is the person that you you
Speaker 1: want to aspire to be as good as and be
Speaker 1: it good enough to be with if you're a Jim.
Speaker 1: For me, the whole series is all about growing up,
Speaker 1: and when a character grows up, they don't need to
Speaker 1: be in the office. I also think that Michael Scott
Speaker 1: from me, I was nostalgic for because his story, his
Speaker 1: arc is a beautiful one. You know. He is a
Speaker 1: person whose mom is screening out his phone calls at
Speaker 1: night when he's all alone in his office with no
Speaker 1: friends or anyone to hang out in, no family to
Speaker 1: go home to, and you see his pain. And then
Speaker 1: the next morning he comes in and he asks like
Speaker 1: a blow hard buffoon, and he tries to force his
Speaker 1: entire workforce into being his family and friends. And I
Speaker 1: forgive him every moment of it because I was led
Speaker 1: into his vulnerability and I saw his cracks, and I
Speaker 1: understand why he's doing what he's doing, and I'm rooting
Speaker 1: for him, and so over the course of it, you
Speaker 1: see each season he grows a little more, and by
Speaker 1: season seven he is finally worthy of Holly, worthy of
Speaker 1: a family. He's grown, He's become the best version of himself,
Speaker 1: and I'm rooting for him and Holly. So for me,
Speaker 1: it was such a clean exit, you know, it was
Speaker 1: so well deserved, so well told, so that I wanted
Speaker 1: to see that journey in others, you know, And and
Speaker 1: it was nice that there was more space for other
Speaker 1: people to have those same goals, and it was nice
Speaker 1: to see Jim and Pam go beyond the fairy tale
Speaker 1: and see like, whoa, there's bumps in marriage? Like that
Speaker 1: was really that was great. I liked being able to
Speaker 1: service more of the characters as a result. But I
Speaker 1: do think that that's kind of what I was alluding
Speaker 1: to earlier. It is giving equal time to lots of
Speaker 1: people who don't normally get I mean, like just the
Speaker 1: very fact that I said the moral compass as a woman,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to beat a dead horse. But there's
Speaker 1: not parody yet, you know, So it's nice that she
Speaker 1: got that part in the show. And then it was
Speaker 1: nice that everyone got their stories told, like what what
Speaker 1: what primetime show had some of the heartfelt moments that
Speaker 1: Phillis Scott. You know how many assistant casting directors get
Speaker 1: to go on become on a network comedy start Like
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just crazy, like the trajectory and the
Speaker 1: impact and the humanity. I keep coming back to that
Speaker 1: word humanity, but it really is a utopic society, and
Speaker 1: I think that it's not shocking that kids are gravitating
Speaker 1: towards that today because I think we see just the
Speaker 1: opposite every day in the news, and it's it's so disheartening,
Speaker 1: you know, and I want to go live in scranted
Speaker 1: in the world of the office, that's the appeal now,
Speaker 1: I think. So. I mean, it's not about getting rich,
Speaker 1: it's not about being popular. It's about being happy and
Speaker 1: being kind to others. I mean, on very few other
Speaker 1: shows do you see people being so kind to each other.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a religious person, but I can
Speaker 1: see why people kind of go to the church of
Speaker 1: the office. Um, when Pam is having a vulnerable moment
Speaker 1: with Dwight and then he says, you're on your period,
Speaker 1: you know, it's undercuts. It's like you're getting to all
Speaker 1: those like feelings. And then of course it's a comedy,
Speaker 1: so it's but like he's really trying. He's a jackass,
Speaker 1: really trying right, right, the intention is there, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you're kind of route like, oh, he can almost do
Speaker 1: this right, almost almost not quite. Yeah, it wouldn't be
Speaker 1: a comedy if you could. Right. I'll just tell you
Speaker 1: this weird thing that I've settled on here in terms
Speaker 1: of that that your brain would tell you that the
Speaker 1: more general would be the more universal. But with the Office,
Speaker 1: the characters were drawn so specifically, and that ultimately that
Speaker 1: is the thing that I think has made it more universal,
Speaker 1: that it's actually so specific. Yeah, instead of pleasing all
Speaker 1: the people, you're just being true to a character building
Speaker 1: and telling a story, which ultimately does make it appeal
Speaker 1: to more people. It's counterintuitive, yeah, but I mean I
Speaker 1: always get so frustrated and just been working on anything
Speaker 1: new where you are underestimating the sophistication of the audience.
Speaker 1: They are smart and they can sniff out phoniness so quickly,
Speaker 1: especially now and like peak TV. You know, people are
Speaker 1: just so smart. And I think The Office was ahead.
Speaker 1: It was ten years ahead of its time. You just
Speaker 1: was the American officer, I mean in the British Office. Well,
Speaker 1: and now we're maybe that's it. Maybe it was ten
Speaker 1: years ahead of its time. And now because as you
Speaker 1: said before, the show is bigger now. It is like
Speaker 1: people will be like, I watched ever episode I see
Speaker 1: your name. I felt like their kids, they're watching it
Speaker 1: with their kids. My peers are watching They never watched
Speaker 1: my peers didn't watch it when I worked on it,
Speaker 1: but they're watching it now with their children. Right, Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming to talk to me. Sure,
Speaker 1: this has been great. I am so happy for you
Speaker 1: and your success. Thank you. And you're so smart and
Speaker 1: thoughtful and I just so appreciate and care for you.
Speaker 1: And oh, thank you. Right, that's awfully right back at you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for thinking of me. One thing I didn't
Speaker 1: mention is that, you know, we still work. We still
Speaker 1: work in this town and I see people once in
Speaker 1: a blue moon, I'll bump into um, Greg the p
Speaker 1: A or um you know. I worked with Danny Chun
Speaker 1: from time to time, or a writer that we've worked with.
Speaker 1: But a lot of times on sets, you know, you'll
Speaker 1: see someone I've worked with, Kelly, and you go up
Speaker 1: and you're like, Okay, who's the so and so, Like
Speaker 1: who's like MAT's own over here? And like who you know,
Speaker 1: who's the no nonsense and who can I talk to
Speaker 1: about this? And it's just like a shorthand. I call
Speaker 1: it going to the University of Greg Daniels because we
Speaker 1: all went to school with under him. He was our master, professor, principal,
Speaker 1: and then we all shot out and went elsewhere but
Speaker 1: remembered each other, and oh that's my school. Made over there,
Speaker 1: so I that's the person I have a shorthand with
Speaker 1: and when I see that familiar face, it's like coming home.
Speaker 1: And I just never i'd never, never, never take the
Speaker 1: office for granted. I don't take any of those years
Speaker 1: for granted. Every day I walked into that office, I
Speaker 1: was aware of how good I had it, how good
Speaker 1: the people, how protected we were, how wonderful it was
Speaker 1: to be on that stage away from everything, and how
Speaker 1: kind everybody was to everybody, even when they were in
Speaker 1: a mood. People were not jackasses. They just weren't. It
Speaker 1: just wasn't tolerated, which is wonderful. Yeah, oh my god,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Like you're I mean, I forget
Speaker 1: that you're a real smart I know I'm not. Yeah, Oh,
Speaker 1: how amazing is she? Thank you, Claire for your wisdom
Speaker 1: and for everything you brought to the show. I am
Speaker 1: so happy to be an alumni of the University of
Speaker 1: Greg Daniels, and I love that we got to have
Speaker 1: this this little class reunion together from all of us
Speaker 1: here at the office Deep Dive, especially me since I'm talking.
Speaker 1: Have a great week and we will be back next
Speaker 1: Tuesday with another brilliant woman from the office, but this time, oh,
Speaker 1: she is someone who was in front of the camera.
Speaker 1: See you next week the Office. Deep Dive is hosted
Speaker 1: an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner alongside our executive
Speaker 1: producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers
Speaker 1: are Emily Carr and Diego Tapia, and our intern is
Speaker 1: Hannah Harris. My main man in the booth is Alec Moore.
Speaker 1: Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great
Speaker 1: friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olandsky.