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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,

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Speaker 1: and speaker.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,

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Speaker 2: and course creator. We are two working parents who love

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Speaker 2: our careers and our families.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about

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Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.

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Speaker 1: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.

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Speaker 3: Term career goals.

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Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.

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Speaker 1: This episode is airing in early December of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Sarah is going to be interviewing Shira Gill, who is

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Speaker 1: the author of the new book Lifestyled. People may know

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Speaker 1: her from various minimalist writings over the years. They will

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Speaker 1: talk about all things organizing and style, et cetera. Sarah,

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Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on organizing currently?

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Speaker 2: I love talking about organizing. I love reading things about organizing.

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Speaker 2: I love thinking about what my house would be like

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Speaker 2: if it was organized. I do not actually like organizing.

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Speaker 2: And that was preps.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we said we were going to talk too

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Speaker 1: much in any of our episodes about our goals for

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Speaker 1: the past year or the upcoming year, because we have

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Speaker 1: episodes devoted to those things. But I seem to recall

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Speaker 1: that organizing the house may have been a goal for

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Speaker 1: you this year.

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Speaker 3: Did that happen?

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Speaker 2: It's been a goal for many years, and you know

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Speaker 2: this was a year I did a lot of things

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Speaker 2: that were goals for many years, like a lot of

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Speaker 2: things that have been lingering one hundred dreams lists and have.

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Speaker 3: Happened, but not that, not that one.

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Speaker 1: So I know, sorry, you maybe trying to reframe your

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Speaker 1: thinking about this topic.

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Speaker 2: I just might be getting closer to outsourcing some of it.

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Speaker 2: I do actually still want to have a home that

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Speaker 2: has less clutter in it and more the things that

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Speaker 2: we actually use and reclaim some of our space that

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Speaker 2: is taken up by piles of who knows what. And

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Speaker 2: I don't currently have space in my life to like

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Speaker 2: make this happen on a regular basis. So I am

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Speaker 2: at least becoming more realistic about it. But I still

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Speaker 2: love interviews like Shira because she makes me maybe realize

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Speaker 2: how like maybe I don't have to think of it

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Speaker 2: as so big, Like maybe there are some things I

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Speaker 2: could do that would get me eighty percent of the

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Speaker 2: way there. That would be almost like eighty twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: percent of the work, eighty percent of the bet of it.

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Speaker 1: And Annabel does some of this right, like justin she

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Speaker 1: liked doing some organizing things. Maybe she could be your

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Speaker 1: little helper on this.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I actually think there could be a role

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Speaker 2: for her, like formally taking some of this on as

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Speaker 2: like you know, like I'm not employing my child, but

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like rewarding her for some

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Speaker 2: of her efforts. And I think she would enjoy it

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Speaker 2: and it would be like a valuable skill set and

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Speaker 2: maybe even would be fun for her to like read

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Speaker 2: one of these books or take a video course on

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Speaker 2: organizing or something like that and get her really in it.

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Speaker 2: By the way, this is not like gender specific, but

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Speaker 2: there's like zero chance that either of my other two

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Speaker 2: children are going to have this proclivity. So it just

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Speaker 2: happens to be her. But yeah, I mean, maybe that

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Speaker 2: will be part of the answer. She's busy too, Yeah, well,

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Speaker 2: I mean that was certainly for us.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we had boxes in the.

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Speaker 1: Hallway for a long time and then we hired somebody

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Speaker 1: to get rid of them, and now we don't have

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Speaker 1: any boxes. And it's good because once a lot of

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Speaker 1: the initial stuff was done, like nobody's going to leave

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Speaker 1: something on the floor and the upstairs hallway at this

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Speaker 1: point because it's clean, like there's nothing on the floor.

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Speaker 1: Like when there were boxes, stuff was getting left there

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Speaker 1: left and right, because it's like once there's boxes, it's

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Speaker 1: a free for all, right, like it's you know, piles

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Speaker 1: of stuff attract more stuff. But now that space has

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Speaker 1: been clear for a year plus and it's really lovely.

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Speaker 1: I like to have that be the case. You know,

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Speaker 1: my kids' rooms, so it's constant work in progress because

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Speaker 1: they outgrow stuff, they get new stuff, so it's not

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Speaker 1: like you can just do it and forget it forever.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that's one issue people run into

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Speaker 1: with this. It's like it's going to be more ongoing

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Speaker 1: than I think some people are entirely prepared for. But

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Speaker 1: so it goes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an organizing cycle, not an organizing project.

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Speaker 3: Yes, a cycle. I think that's good to say.

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Speaker 1: But we'll hear what Shira has to say about organizing

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Speaker 1: our homes, our lives, everything else.

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Speaker 3: So here we go.

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Speaker 2: Well, I am so excited to welcome Shira Gil to

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Speaker 2: the show. She is an organizing expert and author. She's

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Speaker 2: about to have her third book out in the world,

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Speaker 2: but her first two were Minimalista and Organized Living, and

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk all things organizing, home stuff, maybe

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Speaker 2: simplicity beyond that. Welcome to the show, Shira.

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Speaker 4: Thank you. I'm so excited to have this conversation.

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Speaker 2: Me too. I love the concept of minimalism. I aspire

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Speaker 2: to it, and I'm absolutely not there. I'm like going

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Speaker 2: to be taking notes.

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Speaker 4: Right, Okay, let's go.

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Speaker 2: So I guess start with that. How did you get

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Speaker 2: interested in the concept of minimalism and how do you

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Speaker 2: even jibe that with like the typical modern American experience

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Speaker 2: of a lot that many of us have kind of naturally,

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Speaker 2: especially if we have jobs and kids and all of

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Speaker 2: the things.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, the pressure to consume is truly everywhere.

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Speaker 5: I think it's in social media, it's and movies and TV.

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Speaker 5: It's the advertisements were fed, It's the whole culture that

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Speaker 5: we live in our Western world is like buy more

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Speaker 5: and you'll be happier. So I was raised by hippies,

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Speaker 5: New York hippies, so a different breed of hippie I'm

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Speaker 5: in California now, but my parents both were kind of

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Speaker 5: intellectuals who had a real I wouldn't say a minimalist philosophy,

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Speaker 5: but they were anti consumerism, and so when they raised me,

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Speaker 5: I also think it was a different time. I was

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Speaker 5: born in the seventies and there wasn't this like you

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Speaker 5: have to get the best nicest stroller and the five

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Speaker 5: baby swings. It was.

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Speaker 4: It was a simpler time from what I hear from them.

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Speaker 4: So I did grow up with that foundation, but I

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Speaker 4: was a little different because I always loved pretty things.

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Speaker 4: I loved clothes.

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Speaker 5: I was really interested in design and interiors and styling.

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Speaker 5: So there was sort of a push pull, you know,

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Speaker 5: from the time I was little where it was like

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Speaker 5: my parents were teaching me experiences over things things don't matter,

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Speaker 5: and I felt deeply that I agreed, But I also

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Speaker 5: liked pretty things, and so I think I kind of

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Speaker 5: unknowingly created my own minimalist philosophy, which was rooted in

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Speaker 5: defining just the right amount of stuff for me, So

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Speaker 5: kind of defining like what is the intentional right amount

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Speaker 5: of stuff for me and my lifestyle and personality and values,

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Speaker 5: but without any of the clutter any of the excess,

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Speaker 5: and so I just that was some I just sort

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Speaker 5: of I didn't even realize it was a practice or

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Speaker 5: a philosophy. I just knew that clutter bothered me, and

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Speaker 5: I liked my room to feel a certain way. And

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Speaker 5: my parents divorced when I was very young, so I

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Speaker 5: went back and forth every other day from house to house.

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Speaker 5: I had to drag stuff with me back and forth,

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Speaker 5: and so I think because of my upbringing, stuff became

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Speaker 5: sort of this oppressive thing, and I just felt like

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Speaker 5: I always wanted less stuff to manage, less stuff to

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Speaker 5: drag around, and that less, to me equal freedom. So

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Speaker 5: very different from the messages that I think were constantly fed,

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Speaker 5: which is like more is better, More is going to

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Speaker 5: make you feel pretty and successful and like you can

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Speaker 5: keep up with everybody.

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Speaker 4: I was always having this.

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Speaker 5: Pull in the opposite direction towards less means more travel,

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Speaker 5: more fun, more freedom, more ease. And that's something I

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Speaker 5: really had my big light buel moment when I had

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Speaker 5: my daughters.

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Speaker 4: And so I'm now the mother of two teen girls,

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Speaker 4: but when they were born is really when.

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Speaker 5: I started my business, because I made a decision I

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Speaker 5: want to be a minimalist mom, and I didn't see

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Speaker 5: many examples of that in real life, and so I

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Speaker 5: kind of made it my own personal challenge to resist

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Speaker 5: the noise and resist the pressure and resist all the

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Speaker 5: people telling me that I needed the latest this and

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Speaker 5: that and this gadget and that gadget. And I really

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Speaker 5: focused on experiences over things with how I raised my kids,

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Speaker 5: and my business kind of took off from there.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. I have so many questions. But the

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Speaker 2: first thing I'm super curious about, and I know our

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Speaker 2: listeners are too, is what does a minimalist mom look like.

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Speaker 2: I'm interested in the various stages like coller mom versus

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Speaker 2: teen mom, Like how yeah, Like, give me some examples.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's a challenge.

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Speaker 5: First of all, I'll admit that I think my philosophy

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Speaker 5: started when I was registering for my baby shower and

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Speaker 5: I went to the store it's I think it's out

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Speaker 5: of business now, but it was called Giggle, and it

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Speaker 5: was like all the beautiful baby things, and they presented

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Speaker 5: me with like a twenty five page list of everything

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Speaker 5: that I needed to be a mom. And at the time,

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Speaker 5: I didn't have any close girlfriends. I don't have a

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Speaker 5: sister who had kids, so I had no frame of reference,

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Speaker 5: and my mom, I remember, just kind of got very

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Speaker 5: snarky with the saleswoman and was like, you know, all

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Speaker 5: a baby needs to be happy is food and something

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Speaker 5: to sleep in. And I was like, okay, there's got

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Speaker 5: to be something in between. So I think for me,

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Speaker 5: you know, the way that I defined it for myself

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Speaker 5: was I want just enough without the excess. And that

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Speaker 5: volume is different for every person. You know, having now

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Speaker 5: coached hundreds and thousands of people virtually around the world,

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Speaker 5: it varies so greatly by who you are, what your

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Speaker 5: care is, what your climate is, what your job is.

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Speaker 5: For me, I live in the San Francisco Bay Area.

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Speaker 5: Our weather is always lovely. We don't have real seasons,

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Speaker 5: and so I kind of just thought, like, Okay, if

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Speaker 5: I do laundry once a week, how many outfits do

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Speaker 5: I need for this baby? How many socks and how

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Speaker 5: many blankets do I really need? And I just kind

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Speaker 5: of guesstimated on like what would be enough to be

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Speaker 5: a mom and do all the practical things like feed

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Speaker 5: my baby and have my baby be safe and warm

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Speaker 5: without a million trinkets. And I had also been a

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Speaker 5: preschool teacher, in a former life, and so I had

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Speaker 5: seen the kids you know that I worked with were three,

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Speaker 5: four and five, like they would just play for hours

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Speaker 5: with a cardboard box and like invent a whole society

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Speaker 5: and like community, and so I really realized kids don't

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Speaker 5: need much, and in fact, they thrive and they're more

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Speaker 5: creative when they have less stuff.

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Speaker 4: So I really limited like the toys and the gizmos.

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Speaker 5: And the gadgets, and instead I just hit the streets

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Speaker 5: and I was out every day taking walks with my

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Speaker 5: kids and taking them to museums and ice cream and

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Speaker 5: I really my model in my head was like I

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Speaker 5: want our house to be a place that is filled

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Speaker 5: with like ease and calm and facilitates rest, and then

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Speaker 5: all the fun stuff is kind of out of the

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Speaker 5: house in the city, like that's our playground and that's

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Speaker 5: our playroom. And we didn't have a big house, so

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Speaker 5: we didn't even have a playroom, and our kids for

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Speaker 5: many years shared.

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Speaker 4: A small room. So I was like, I want to

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Speaker 4: give them the most fun childhood.

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Speaker 5: But in my mind that just didn't have any real

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Speaker 5: connection to stuff.

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Speaker 2: So so interesting, we're going to take a quick break

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Speaker 2: and then maybe we'll talk a little bit about kind

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Speaker 2: of how that looks in a little bit older kids.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, sup, were interesting? Great, all right, we are back.

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Speaker 2: So I'm picturing only like a few toys, if any,

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Speaker 2: which actually does lower the burdens significantly on cleaning up

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Speaker 2: those toys. So I kind of get where this is going.

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Speaker 2: And that makes a lot of sense to me. What

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Speaker 2: would a more minimalist lifestyle or space look like for

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Speaker 2: like a school aged family.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I will say, I mean my kids had

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Speaker 5: toys that they were not living like an austere lifestyle

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Speaker 5: full of deprivation. It was just limited, right, Like we

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Speaker 5: would have like three big baskets in our living room

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Speaker 5: and it was like those baskets were the capacity of

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Speaker 5: the toys that we had. And so I'm big into

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Speaker 5: limits and boundaries as a professional organizer. I think that's

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Speaker 5: the key to the universe. So as I mean, I

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Speaker 5: will say, like when my kids were two and four,

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Speaker 5: that was peak stuff and there was no way around it,

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Speaker 5: Like there were things that we needed. We needed this

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Speaker 5: stroller and the baby carrier and the multiple car seats.

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Speaker 5: Like I hated it, but it was just the reality.

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Speaker 5: As they got older, my kids were both prolific artists,

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Speaker 5: and the art volume was insane, and so we actually

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Speaker 5: put up a magnet wall in our kitchen so that

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Speaker 5: they had kind of a gallery to display their favorite art.

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Speaker 5: And so I would say, like, do as much art

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Speaker 5: as you want, but then you have to kind of

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Speaker 5: pick and curate like what goes up on the art wall.

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Speaker 5: So again it's like those creative freedom but then limits.

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Speaker 5: And I in my organizing work and in my own home,

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Speaker 5: I always had kind of a rule of five for kids,

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Speaker 5: like no more than five broad categories out at a time.

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Speaker 4: And that doesn't mean doing five things at the same time.

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Speaker 5: It means like we're only going to visually see five

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Speaker 5: categories of stuff in the house. So that could be

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Speaker 5: like books, art, puzzles, and games like goes and a

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Speaker 5: play kitchen.

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Speaker 4: And what I found in organizing other people's homes.

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Speaker 5: Is most people had like twenty five categories of stuff,

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Speaker 5: and they were overwhelmed, their kids were drowning, nobody could

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Speaker 5: make decisions or clean up, and so my goal was

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Speaker 5: always like make play really easy and make clean up

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Speaker 5: really easy. And so that kind of all through the

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Speaker 5: elementary school years was like five categories of stuff if

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Speaker 5: they get bored of one thing, they can trade it

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Speaker 5: in for another thing. If they're like we no longer

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Speaker 5: like lego, Okay, we're going to sell or donate the Lego.

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Speaker 5: We can replace it with one thing, but we're not

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Speaker 5: just adding more and more forever. And now that they're teenagers,

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Speaker 5: it's been kind of fascinating because all they want is

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Speaker 5: a device and to hang out with their friends, and

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Speaker 5: they have no It's like the stuffies are out.

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Speaker 4: They're not interested in even board games, which is kind

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Speaker 4: of sad for me.

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Speaker 5: But I will say to any parents who feel like

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Speaker 5: they're totally drowning, it gets so much easier. Like I

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Speaker 5: feel like one day we just woke up and our

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Speaker 5: kids were like, yeah, don't need this, don't need this,

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Speaker 5: Like just need my phone and my friends.

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Speaker 4: So that's been a big ship.

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Speaker 2: Have you seen my twelve year old's cosmetic collection? Though,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just kidding. That's the one area because

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking to myself, like, where are we still having

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Speaker 2: stuff problems? I'm like, oh, yes, it's the uh, the.

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Speaker 4: Recipe and the bubble and I know we all share

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Speaker 4: one bathroom and it used to be so curated and

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Speaker 4: lovely with like one shampoo and one conditioner and one

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Speaker 4: body wash. It Now I'm like, what are all of

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Speaker 4: these bath bobs and face masks and skin scrubs. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 4: I mean the struggle is real.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: I love it. But no, that's super interesting, and it's true,

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Speaker 2: like the volume of stuff is naturally going to ebb

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Speaker 2: and flow with their phases, and it's nice for listeners

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Speaker 2: with younger kids to perhaps hear that it is going

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Speaker 2: to get a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Better, it gets a lot easier.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about I was living through your new

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Speaker 2: book and one you know, you talk about like automation

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Speaker 2: and sort of solving problem in the home, and I

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Speaker 2: think that one that is super super common for people

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Speaker 2: with younger kids and school age kids is when you

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Speaker 2: get home and everyone has their backpack and their lunch

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Speaker 2: and like blah blah blah, and like everyone's tired. But

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Speaker 2: your book has some ideas and solutions for like making

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Speaker 2: this less of a thing and perhaps even making your

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Speaker 2: house less of a disaster in dealing with those things.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I know I'm not alone. Can you chat with.

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Speaker 4: Them or no?

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Speaker 5: I think that entry I mean when I'm in a

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Speaker 5: house and people are overwhelmed. I always start with the

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Speaker 5: entry because I feel like if you can lock in

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Speaker 5: good systems for your entry and really curb the clutter

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Speaker 5: from coming through the front door and kind of leaking

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Speaker 5: all over your house, you're going to have a leg up.

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Speaker 5: So what I always think is clutter is information. So

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Speaker 5: I don't judge clutter. I'm interested in clutter. What is it,

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Speaker 5: why is it here? What does it tell us? And

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Speaker 5: so with an entry, it's really interesting to just look

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Speaker 5: at kind of the audit of your clutter in your entry,

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Speaker 5: what gets dumped and is it getting dumped because there

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Speaker 5: is no system?

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Speaker 4: That's the first thing.

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Speaker 5: Is it getting dumped because people just aren't taking it

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Speaker 5: to where it needs to go? And then it's a

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Speaker 5: habit problem and not a system problem. But usually I'll

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Speaker 5: just do an audit and I'll say to people like,

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Speaker 5: do you have an easy place for your kids to

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Speaker 5: drop backpacks when they get home from school?

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Speaker 4: Like is there a hook at arms reach?

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Speaker 5: It's shocking how many people will realize like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 5: we don't, or like our kids can't reach it, and

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Speaker 5: that's why they're just dumping it on the floor. So

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Speaker 5: I like to get kids super involved, and I like

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Speaker 5: to say to them like, Okay, you're walking through the

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Speaker 5: front door, where would you want to put your bag,

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Speaker 5: and like show me where you can reach, and let's

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Speaker 5: put a hook right there, and like have them actually

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Speaker 5: stand with their arm out and their backpack and put

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Speaker 5: a hook in right where they can see it so

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Speaker 5: they have some buy in, like this is a system

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Speaker 5: I'm a part of.

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Speaker 4: Likewise, with like a jacket, I usually like.

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Speaker 5: To do a really sturdy double hook that can have

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Speaker 5: a jacket and a backpack. Just like school where kids

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Speaker 5: are used to having like a cubby or a locker

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Speaker 5: or some sort of system.

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Speaker 4: You just want to replicate that in your home.

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Speaker 5: So it's like you come in, first thing you see

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Speaker 5: is a hook for your drop station. Many people are

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Speaker 5: shoe off houses and they have just this mountain of

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Speaker 5: shoes by the front door. I like to really limit

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Speaker 5: that to one or two pairs per family member and

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Speaker 5: store the majority of.

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Speaker 4: The shoes back in their closets.

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Speaker 5: In our house, we're in a house that's about one

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Speaker 5: hundred and twenty years old, and so we don't have

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Speaker 5: an entry closet.

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Speaker 4: There's no mudroom, there's no system.

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Speaker 5: You walk right into our home and you're in the

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Speaker 5: living room, so I am walking the walk here, like

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Speaker 5: I have put up hooks.

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Speaker 4: I made sort of a makeshift.

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Speaker 5: Cabinet, and it is literally as simple as some hooks

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Speaker 5: for the jackets, the backpacks, the dog leash, and some

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Speaker 5: cubbies or even just basket to drop your shoes.

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Speaker 4: And the last thing is a place for mail bills,

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Speaker 4: kid art, like where do the paper piles go? So

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Speaker 4: I personally like to make it as simple as possible.

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Speaker 5: I just have a massive, pretty basket in my living

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Speaker 5: room kind of blends in with the decor. Everybody knows

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Speaker 5: if they want me to look at anything, review anything,

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Speaker 5: sign anything, pay anything, it gets dumped in that basket.

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Speaker 5: Meaning if they dump it on the counter, it's not

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Speaker 5: going to be dealt with. It's going to be thrown away.

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Speaker 5: So having those clear rules like with your family of

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Speaker 5: put it in the inbox, that's what I call it

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Speaker 5: in my house. It's like that's the holy grail of

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Speaker 5: family management, is have one place where anything that needs

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Speaker 5: your attention can go, and then you just have to

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Speaker 5: show up and review it like once a week or so.

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Speaker 2: I like the massive inbox idea because it solves the

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Speaker 2: problems of like multiple piles all over the place. Plus

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Speaker 2: if you're processing it, it makes it very easy to

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Speaker 2: be like, Okay, every Friday, I empty the inbox or

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Speaker 2: whatever your day of choices and as usual, like it's

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Speaker 2: physically getting emptied. It's like we're going back to like

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Speaker 2: David Allen put your tests on a list of pieces

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Speaker 2: of paper and throw them in a thing or something

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah exactly. I like, yeah, you've got to have a

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Speaker 5: date with your inbox. And I think so many people

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Speaker 5: over organize. So a lot of my clients are like, well,

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Speaker 5: here's where I put bills, and here's where I put

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Speaker 5: things that need to be filed, and here's where I

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Speaker 5: put my kid.

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Speaker 4: And I'm like, no, it's all to dos.

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Speaker 5: So centralize your to dos would be a tip. I

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Speaker 5: would say, just make it easy. Have them in one place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, anything that has a physical manifestation. I like, exactly,

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Speaker 2: how do you contend? Like, let's say you're trying, actually

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Speaker 2: I have We'll have two step of questions. Let's start

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Speaker 2: with the easier one. Let's say you're trying to help

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Speaker 2: your family have less stuff over all, but you have

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Speaker 2: some younger family members or maybe even a partner with

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Speaker 2: very different tendencies.

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Speaker 3: Yes, where do.

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Speaker 2: You kind of like draw the line or is that

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Speaker 2: something where you're just like, I can't worry about them.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. How have you handled that?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's I think that's my most common question and

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Speaker 5: struggle for people is everybody has a different clutter threshold.

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Speaker 4: That's what I call it.

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Speaker 5: Like some people are truly unphased by clutter or piles,

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Speaker 5: they don't find them irritating or distracting. And some people

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Speaker 5: feel like they can't focus or have peace of mind

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Speaker 5: if they're surrounded by laundry and dishes and piles. So

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Speaker 5: the first thing, and I will say, like when I

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Speaker 5: married my husband, he was a total slob. He dumped

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Speaker 5: stuff everywhere. There were no systems, there were no boundaries.

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Speaker 5: And my kids are not They do not define themselves

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Speaker 5: as minimalists. So I am the minimalist in our home

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Speaker 5: right and I have very clear thoughts about how things

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Speaker 5: should be, and my family members have very different thoughts

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Speaker 5: and they're all valid.

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Speaker 4: So what to do about it? So a few things?

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Speaker 5: I think Number one is, if you are the person

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Speaker 5: who craves order and tidiness, you've got to take responsibility

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Speaker 5: for that by managing your own stuff and modeling first.

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Speaker 5: And so before you even talk to family members about

440
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 5: their stuff. I would challenge listeners to edit, organize, and

441
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 5: systematize every single thing they own without saying a word.

442
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 5: And I did that in my own home and life,

443
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 5: and there is kind of a process of osmosis where

444
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 5: your family members they're not bugged, they're not attacked, but

445
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 5: they do see things shifting, they see your habits shifting.

446
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 4: That's step one.

447
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 5: And it's hard, right because it's so easy to fingerpoint

448
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 5: and be like, well, my husband is dumping these things

449
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 5: and the teenagers you know, everywhere. But step one is

450
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 5: deal with your own stuff first. So until you have

451
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 5: thoroughly edited and organized and systematized everything you own, so

452
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 5: your mementos and sentimental stuff, all of your clothes, all

453
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 5: of your paperwork, all of your books, don't even talk to.

454
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 4: Them once you have done that.

455
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 5: What I find it really helpful to do is kind

456
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 5: of have a family meeting and for the common areas

457
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 5: in the house, define like what are the terms that

458
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 5: we're comfortable with for the house, and what are the

459
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 5: terms for our individual spaces.

460
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 4: So my need is stronger than anyone else's need.

461
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 5: Right, So the deal that I got my family to

462
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 5: agree to is and we have a small house too,

463
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 5: so we're all on top of each other. So living room,

464
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 5: dining room, kitchen has a real standard where it's like

465
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 5: these spaces are going to be clean and minimal and

466
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 5: dialed in. We're not going to dump stuff, We're going

467
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 5: to clean up every night, like dishes go away before we.

468
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 4: Go to bed.

469
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 5: No piles for my girl's respective rooms. They get to

470
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 5: own what they want. They have their own money now,

471
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 5: they can buy things, they get presents. They don't have

472
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 5: to make their bed perfectly, they don't have to fold

473
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 5: their clothes perfectly. That's their domain and they can have

474
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 5: that freedom as long as they maintain the.

475
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 4: Rest of the house. Likewise, during COVID, we actually built

476
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 4: like a studio and office.

477
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 5: In our back for my husband. He has ADHD, he

478
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 5: has stuff everywhere. He doesn't have systems. He has a

479
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 5: whole different process and system for how he works than

480
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 5: I do. And so that has been like a game

481
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 5: changer for both of us because I am often working

482
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 5: in our dining room and so I need like calm

483
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 5: and quiet and peace of mind. And he's fine with

484
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 5: like three monitors and paper everywhere and coffee mugs everywhere,

485
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 5: So giving everybody their own slice of real estate, but

486
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 5: then kind of defining how can we cooperate for those

487
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 5: common spaces.

488
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 4: I have found to be the best solution.

489
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: I think that makes sense just from a mental health standpoint.

490
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, that is their domain, and as long

491
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: as we're not like having an infestation or something like that,

492
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: then it's fine. Yeah.

493
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

494
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 5: The one other thing I'll say is finding motivation and

495
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 5: buy in. Like if you're the person who wants to

496
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 5: be more minimal or more organized, I will say to

497
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 5: my kids, like, listen, I know this isn't your thing,

498
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 5: but if her house is like easy and we don't

499
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 5: have to clean up all the time, you can have

500
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 5: friends over whenever you want.

501
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 4: You can have sleepovers whenever you want. You can have

502
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 4: movie parties.

503
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 5: So they've seen the benefits of having a minimal home.

504
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 5: Is we have an open door policy. Like our house

505
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 5: is the house that all the teenagers hang out at.

506
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 5: We host sleepovers all the time. We used to be

507
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 5: part of a babysitting co op.

508
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 4: We'd have twenty kids running around eating popcorn so our

509
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 4: house is fun because it's minimal, and I think that's

510
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 4: not something you hear.

511
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 2: Super interesting and I get that, like there's more space,

512
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: it's not like if you don't have a thousand toys

513
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: to wreck everywhere, then cleanup is always going to be easier.

514
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 2: And that's super interesting how it's benefitted socially. Well, we're

515
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 2: going to take another quick break and then I'm going

516
00:25:51,760 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: to ask you about home makeovers. I guess great. All right,

517
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: we're back and we are airing this closer to the

518
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 2: new year. And so I know, I personally have set

519
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 2: goals related to organizing my home many many a time,

520
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: and often have ended up finding it much more difficult

521
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 2: than I thought or quit somewhere in that process. But

522
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 2: I know that one of your strengths is really motivating people.

523
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: I get that from the pages of your book. I

524
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 2: read Organized Living, and I'm like, this is so like

525
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: aspirational and motivating. So what would you say to someone

526
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 2: who is embarking on a project like that? And do

527
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 2: you have any suggested way of going about it if

528
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 2: you're sort of in a starting from scratch kind of place,

529
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 2: And even though I know your work goes beyond this, yeah,

530
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: more focusing on the home space aspect.

531
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 4: Sure.

532
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 5: So I think one of the biggest mistakes I see

533
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 5: people make when trying to organize their whole home is

534
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 5: trying to organize their whole home at once. And that

535
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 5: really is so common because we get excited and motivated

536
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 5: and it's like, all right, I'm ready to deal with this,

537
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 5: and then what commonly happens is people just kind of

538
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 5: run from room to room, like straightening a little thing here,

539
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 5: organizing a little thing there, and they never really see

540
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 5: massive transformation or impact. So my number one rule is

541
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 5: you must start small and specific. So if you feel

542
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 5: like you want to organize and declutter your entire home,

543
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 5: what I would do is I would make a list

544
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 5: of every room in your house or every space, so

545
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 5: it could be like your entry, closet, living dining, kitchen, bedrooms, bathroom,

546
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 5: storage areas. Then I would rank them in order. And

547
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 5: people are always like, where do I start? If you

548
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 5: don't know where to start with either your entry or

549
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 5: your bedroom. I say this because the entry we already

550
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 5: went over. It's just a high traffic zone, high impact

551
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 5: for organizing.

552
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 4: Your bedroom is where you end your day and start

553
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 4: your day, and it often does not feel like a

554
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 4: spa or a zen like place, and I think it's a.

555
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 5: Lower impact project. Like I would say the kitchen is

556
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 5: the highest impact. There's just the most stuff, the most zones,

557
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 5: the most going on there. So if you really don't

558
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 5: know where to start and you can't figure out, I

559
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 5: would say entry and then bedroom. But you want to

560
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 5: make that list and then you just want to focus

561
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 5: one space at a time and kind of have like

562
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 5: tunnel vision where even if everything feels chaotic, you're saying

563
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 5: to your brain, it's okay, brain, we have a list,

564
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 5: we've made a plan.

565
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 4: We're going to go in order. We're going to tackle everything.

566
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 5: But right now we're only doing the entry and we're

567
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 5: not touching any other space or any other project until

568
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 5: the entry is edited, organized and styled. So when I

569
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 5: work with clients, that's really the first thing I do

570
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 5: is I'm like, Okay, what are all the spaces, Let's

571
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 5: rank them in order, and then we just go one, two, three, four, five, six,

572
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 5: So that really helps people. I also would say having

573
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 5: easy places to donate. One of the things that really

574
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 5: trips people up is Okay, I've decluttered, but now I

575
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 5: just have like my bags of stuff everywhere, and you

576
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 5: have to have an easy way to get that out

577
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 5: the front door. So even as simple as just saying like, Okay,

578
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 5: where is my most easy, convenient drop off point for

579
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 5: household goods? Do I have a place for harder to

580
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 5: donate things like electronics or paint or hazardous waste? Like

581
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 5: doing half an hour of research and having your drop

582
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 5: stations ready so that once you've hit one space, I

583
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 5: would say, as soon as that entry is decluttered and organized,

584
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 5: you do your trash donate, recycle run, and now it's

585
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 5: time to move on to the next space, so it

586
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 5: really feels complete.

587
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: I think that's been a struggle for me, the oh

588
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to donate it, and then I have a

589
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: pile and like, I mean my case, we have a

590
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: large garage, so there's no reason it couldn't go in there.

591
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: But I like your idea of like making it easy

592
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: and like having a category set up ahead of time,

593
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: like this stuff goes there, this stuff goes there's automated.

594
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 5: Yes, and use your kids if you have kids, they're

595
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 5: always my runners. So I'll drive to all the drop

596
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 5: up places and be like okay, like take this bag

597
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 5: and go drop it off and come back and then

598
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 5: I'm just the chauffeur. And I think it's also good

599
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 5: to model for your family, like the letting go process,

600
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 5: the donating responsibly. But yeah, make sure you have a

601
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 5: plan to get this stuff out. And the other thing

602
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 5: I would say that people usually don't slow down enough

603
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 5: to think about is your why.

604
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 4: Why are you decluttering?

605
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 5: Why are you wanting to get organized or make a

606
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 5: change in your home? That is where I always start,

607
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 5: and it really is the most important step, because if

608
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 5: you don't have a why, you're not going to stay motivated,

609
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 5: You're not going to stay energized, and you're just going

610
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 5: to be moving piles around. If you have a clear

611
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 5: and motivating why, like I want to save money to

612
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 5: save for a trip, or I'm so exhausted from losing things,

613
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 5: I want to improve my quality of life, You've got

614
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 5: to have something that keeps you energized throughout the process.

615
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: I like that you can put it on your phone

616
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: background screen motivate or something like that.

617
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 4: I love that.

618
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: And you know something really interesting that I hadn't heard,

619
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: which was edit and then something and then style. Can

620
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: you go through those edit organized? Is?

621
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 4: Yeah?

622
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 5: So the process I outline in my first book, Minimalista.

623
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 5: It's a five step process. You can apply it to

624
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 5: any space including your junk drawer, your basement, anything.

625
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 4: So step one is clarify why are you doing this?

626
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 4: What are your goals?

627
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 5: Step two is edit. That's always what you want to

628
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 5: do before you organize. Is you want to let go

629
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 5: of the clutter, let go of the things that are

630
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 5: not serving you. Then organize, which I make organization very

631
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 5: very simple. It is grouping similar things together and every

632
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 5: category has a home.

633
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 4: And then elevate, which.

634
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 5: That's what I call kind of like the cherry on top,

635
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 5: which is I want to now invest in beautiful drawer

636
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 5: liners or matching hangers for my closet, or beautiful baskets

637
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 5: for the laundry room. So elevating is kind of the

638
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 5: fun part for people, and I have put it intentionally

639
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 5: at the end because it's the reward and you don't

640
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 5: want to try to elevate before you've edited and organized.

641
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: It doesn't make any sense. And the last step is maintained.

642
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 5: So because life isn't static, kids are growing out of things,

643
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 5: gifts are coming in. You've got to have systems in place,

644
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 5: like even as simple as a donation bag in your entry,

645
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 5: your mudroom, or in the closets, having a one in

646
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 5: one out process, doing a seasonal cleanse before holidays or

647
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 5: birthdays so that you can kind of maintain that balance

648
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 5: that you've achieved.

649
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: Awesome, I love it. I'm feeling more motivated already.

650
00:32:58,840 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 4: Oh good.

651
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: I want to tell listeners Shira's Organized Living book is

652
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: amazing and now I'm super excited to get my hands

653
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: on the first one. But her third one is coming out,

654
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: and I wanted to give her a chance. So that

655
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 2: one is like, it's like a lot of these principles

656
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: but applied very broadly. Is that right correct?

657
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 4: Yeah? So what happened is so minimalista.

658
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 5: My first book really breaks down my entire toolkit for

659
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 5: how to edit, organize, and style every room in your house.

660
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 5: And when I finished that book, I've been an organizer

661
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 5: for fifteen years. So I have all of these friends

662
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 5: who were organizers, and whenever I would go to their homes,

663
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 5: I would be really nosy and I would say like, oh,

664
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 5: can I see how you organize under your kitchen sink

665
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 5: or in your medicine cabinet?

666
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 4: And I would always come away with.

667
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 5: These new, fresh ideas and inspiration, because every organizer is different.

668
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 5: So my second book, which was really the experience of

669
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 5: a lifetime, I got to travel around the world interviewing

670
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 5: twenty five of the top organizings in the world and

671
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 5: touring their homes.

672
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 4: And through this process of.

673
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 5: Learning the systems and the habits and the methods of

674
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 5: twenty five very different organizers, from minimalists to maximalist people

675
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 5: that focus just on paper, or just on pantry, or

676
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 5: just on closet. I had this epiphany towards the end

677
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 5: of writing that book where I realized all of the organizers,

678
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 5: including myself, had three things in common, and the three

679
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 5: steps were volume, systems and habits. And so I started thinking, Okay,

680
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 5: if we can apply this to any home, like automating

681
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 5: systems implementing good habits to create a home that functions.

682
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 5: What if we took those same things volume systems and

683
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 5: habits and applied it to our life. And so my

684
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 5: third book, Lifestyled, which is coming out very soon, basically

685
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 5: takes this and applies it to things like your schedule,

686
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 5: your relationships, your finances, your health and wellness, your community service.

687
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 5: Like I really tested this in my own life and

688
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 5: found it to be hugely helpful. I'm a person where

689
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 5: it's really easy for me kind of effortlessly to edit

690
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 5: and organize my home, but my life was feeling very

691
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 5: full and overstuffed and chaotic, and everybody that I talked

692
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 5: to was likewise feeling like they were drowning with the

693
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 5: endless to dos and the responsibilities and so much kind

694
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 5: of clamoring for their attention. So in this book, what

695
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 5: I really dive into is how do you create a

696
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 5: more intentional life.

697
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 4: How do you make the tough cuts the edits not

698
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 4: just your home but your life.

699
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 5: How do you learn how to set boundaries and say

700
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 5: no and clarify what your biggest yeses are? And how

701
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 5: do you figure out how to create this volume system's

702
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 5: framework in every part of your life. So I apply

703
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 5: it to finances. I talk about how I run a

704
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 5: minimalist business. So I've applied all of these tips that

705
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 5: I've outlined for the home to business, to finances to relationships,

706
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,959
Speaker 5: like how do you cut the relationship clutter? It's hard

707
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 5: to edit friends, but it's important right to decide who

708
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 5: are the people that are really worthy of my time

709
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 5: and my energy and my attention Because that's precious, Like

710
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 5: our most precious resource is our time, and so this

711
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 5: is a book that really gets into this.

712
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 2: I love the extension and I love the fresh perspective

713
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 2: on some of those topics we love to talk about

714
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 2: all the time anyways, So that's great, super exciting. Yeah, well, Shira,

715
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: tell listeners where they can find you and learn more

716
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 2: about you, and remind everybody your book coming out and

717
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 2: the name and everything.

718
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely so.

719
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 5: My website is kind of my hub for all things

720
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 5: including you can sign up for my substack, where I

721
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 5: have subscribers from all over the world and every one

722
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 5: of the fifty States, and we're all kind of simplifying together.

723
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 5: It has my three books, so Minimalista, Organized Living, and

724
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 5: Lifestyled and you can follow me on Instagram at Shira

725
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 5: Gill for tips and inspiration on how to simplify and

726
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 5: streamline home and life.

727
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 2: Love before we go, and I forgot to warn you

728
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 2: this part, but don't worry, it's not scary, not scary.

729
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 2: We do a Love of the Week every week and

730
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: it can be anything, can be a product, can be

731
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 2: like a TV show you just watched. It could be literally,

732
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 2: I mean the weather. I don't care not the weather

733
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: where I am, because I'm in South Florida and it's terrible.

734
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 4: Weather where I am.

735
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the weather where you are is probably amazing.

736
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: So I'll go first to give you a minute to

737
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: think of yours, and I'm going to share. Charity Navigator

738
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: is a website where you can like So we're recording

739
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 2: this a little ahead of schedule, and there's been a

740
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 2: lot of weather disaster recently, and I was like wanting

741
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 2: to donate, yeah, but I wanted to make sure I

742
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: was donating to something that like seemed like a good,

743
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 2: well run organization. It was going to go to the

744
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 2: right people and stuff. So Charity Navigator you can actually

745
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 2: search by cause, so if you wanted to donate for

746
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: even like a certain storm or certain whatever, it'll give

747
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 2: you all the charities that are linked to that with

748
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 2: like ratings and information about them and that kind of thing,

749
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 2: and then you can actually donate, like through their platform,

750
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: but it still goes directly to the charity.

751
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 5: So yeah, wow, I love that, Like, how do I

752
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 5: beat that?

753
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: No?

754
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 4: A lot of times about my favorite water bottle.

755
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 2: Don't worry. Last week it was like Emily in Paris,

756
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, not always it's it's we Are. This is

757
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: just a mixed bag, but that just happened to be

758
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 2: useful for me this week, so I love it.

759
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm trying to think there are so many things

760
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 5: I've been loving and paying attention to. I mean, I

761
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 5: recently rewatched the documentary The Minimalists, which yeah, is just

762
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 5: always kind of a good refresher for me. They you know,

763
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 5: it's the Too minimal Lists, who many people are familiar with,

764
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 5: and they have a podcast, but their documentary is quite

765
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 5: old but really not outdated, and they interview a lot

766
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,720
Speaker 5: of people who are doing life differently, who are taking

767
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 5: the path less traveled of like living in an airstream

768
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 5: trailer or living in a tree house, and some of

769
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 5: it's quite extreme, but it really paints a picture of

770
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 5: like how our consumption has gotten out of hand and

771
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 5: a real actionable antidote and that. And I also love

772
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 5: watching Tiny House Nation, which is also like kind of

773
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 5: an outdated resource, but I just go back to it

774
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 5: again and again, and whenever I watch it, I feel

775
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 5: so inspired to declutter, even like another layer deeper, and

776
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 5: it really shows all of these different people motivated by

777
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 5: simplifying their life, saving money, living with more freedom and autonomy.

778
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 5: So those are two things that I suggest and I.

779
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 4: Personally just go back to again and again for kind

780
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 4: of like a little boost of inspiration.

781
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: I love both of those, like cause it's not even

782
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: necessarily like I'm going to live in a tiny house,

783
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 2: but it makes you realize that all the things we

784
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: take for granted as normal, like how many of them

785
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: are not actually necessary? So I think I watch that.

786
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 2: I think that's great. I love that idea.

787
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I also just did on my substack today so

788
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 5: readers can find it. I literally did an inventory of

789
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 5: every single thing I own in my house. That's fun,

790
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 5: which is like a little bit insane, but I always

791
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 5: have people saying, you know, like well, how many clothes.

792
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 4: Do you have? And how many books do you have?

793
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 5: Like as a minimalist, people are so curious about it,

794
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 5: and especially because I'm a mom and I have teenagers

795
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 5: and I have a husband and we have a dog.

796
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 4: So that is a resource that I will share too.

797
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 4: That's on my substack.

798
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 5: You can if you like knowing things like how many

799
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 5: things people own. I literally detail every single thing that

800
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 5: I own, And the comments section is pretty fascinating too,

801
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 5: with other people responding about what they own and how

802
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 5: different it.

803
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 2: That is awesome. I think we probably have twelve hair

804
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 2: brushes in my house. All right. Well, on that note,

805
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 2: I am not winning the minimalist, but I'm super inspired. Shira.

806
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: This was a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on.

807
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having me.

808
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: Well we were back. That was great.

809
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: Sarah interviewing Shira Gill, author of the brand new book Lifestyle. So, Sarah,

810
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: here's our question for the week. Where do you put

811
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: tasks that you want to do soon but you don't

812
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: know the specific timeframe yet.

813
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. I've been obsessed with task management recently because I

814
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 2: feel like everyone has their own system for this, or

815
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 2: they like think there shouldn't be a system. I don't know.

816
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: There's just so many hot takes on this, and yet

817
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 2: I feel like whatever I'm doing works really well. So

818
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 2: I want to share that in the way that I

819
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: cannot to say that there's only one way of doing it.

820
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: But for anything that is soonish, I have the fairly

821
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 2: low friction method of pulling out my planner picking a week,

822
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: maybe not this week, but like maybe next week if

823
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: it looks kind I'm okay, or maybe the week after

824
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: that if it looks kind of okay, and just writing

825
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: it down on the column on the left hand side,

826
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 2: so it's like assigned to the week. It's not getting

827
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 2: a specific calendar slot. It's just like, eh, this week,

828
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 2: this should be a priority, so that when I go

829
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 2: to planning to day that week, that will be one

830
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 2: of the options to get it done, and that way

831
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 2: I know I won't forget it. This wasn't asked in

832
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: the question. But if it's more like something very very

833
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: important or a constrained timeframe, then I'm more likely to

834
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 2: actually just put it on a specific day and give

835
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: it its own schedule item.

836
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just choose a random date right like when

837
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: I think I will get to it, and then when

838
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: I come to that in my calendar as part of

839
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: my planning, so I'm looking at it like a week

840
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: or two before I will see it, and then I

841
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: can make a decision like am I actually going to

842
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: choose that as a priority for the next week, or

843
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: am I going to punt it forward to another future date,

844
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: you know, another week or two in the future, another

845
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: three months in the future, if it's not urgent, you know,

846
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: who knows. But the upside, you can choose a date

847
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 1: for something, even if you're not planning on doing it

848
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: on that date, as long as you have a system

849
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: where you will see it, right, yes, And that is

850
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: the key part, Like you have to make sure that

851
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: you have a system you will trust that you.

852
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 3: Won't lose that thing.

853
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: So I've been doing this for like a book I

854
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 1: want to read that the author hasn't gotten out yet,

855
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: Like I want to read it when it comes out,

856
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: but I keep like punting it forward another six months

857
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: to check, like has this stupid book been released yet?

858
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 2: Because I'm it's obscure enough that I.

859
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 1: Don't know that I will see it like in regular

860
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: media that I consume.

861
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 3: So you know, I just like six months I come

862
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 3: up with it. I'm like, huh, look is it out?

863
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: Nope, not out do another six months in the future,

864
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 1: but you know, I haven't forgotten about it yet without

865
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 1: it taking up too much mental space.

866
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 3: It's kind of like checking in on the dentist or something.

867
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: A benefit of doing it your way is that is

868
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 2: actually more a minimal to about how most digital systems work.

869
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 2: So like in Google calendar, you can't flip forward and

870
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 2: assign something to a week, but you actually can assign

871
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 2: it to a day, so people who are digital only

872
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 2: might really love Laura's method as well, even though she

873
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 2: does it, I think on paper.

874
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And because it's on paper, I just put it

875
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: on that calendar page which has a whole week. So

876
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: sometimes I will put it on the Monday of the week,

877
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: like we actually write it on the Monday. But sometimes

878
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: I'll just put it across the top because I'll see

879
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: it either way, and then the Friday before or two

880
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: fridays before to pick because I usually look forward just

881
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: a week or.

882
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 3: Two, I will see it.

883
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: And because I know I will see it, I can

884
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 1: then make a decision at that point.

885
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 3: But yeah, figuring out how to send notes to.

886
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: Your future self is like a key part of time

887
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: management and planning because there's so many things that the

888
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: obvious trigger for you to think about them is not

889
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: a useful trigger. Like if you want tulips in your

890
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: yard in April, you need to plant them in the fall,

891
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: like the bulbs need to get planted in the fall.

892
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: And so people think about this in April when they say, oh,

893
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: look at my neighbor's pretty tulips, right, that does nothing for.

894
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 3: You because you can do nothing about it at that moment.

895
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 1: But you can put a note on a page in

896
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: October in your planner, or put choose any date in

897
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: October in your digital calendar and say plant bulbs, and

898
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: then when you get to October you will see that

899
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: and you can either put it on your priority list

900
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: for that week for another week. You could not do it.

901
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 1: You can decide you don't actually care. You'll be happy

902
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: to be the yard without the tulips come April. But

903
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: at least you're not going to not do it because

904
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: the obvious trigger wasn't the right one.

905
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,959
Speaker 2: So simple and so effective and yeah, I just love it.

906
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 2: It's like, don't lose it, don't lose it?

907
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 3: All right? Well, this has been best of both worlds.

908
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 1: We've been talking about getting more organizing, styling our life

909
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: with Shira Gil. We will be back next week with

910
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: more on making work and life fit together.

911
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the

912
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,439
Speaker 2: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,

913
00:45:58,800 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: and you.

914
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This

915
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join

916
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: us next time for more on making work and life

917
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 1: work together.