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Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's me Joshum. For this week's select, I've

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Speaker 1: chosen our August twenty twenty three episode on plant migration.

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Speaker 1: This one makes me a brainy boy, what with its

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Speaker 1: earth science and something that goes on under our noses

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Speaker 1: without us really realizing that it's happening. And we figure

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Speaker 1: out that there's a lot to learn about plants on

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Speaker 1: the move, which makes it even sweeter. I hope you

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Speaker 1: love this one as much as I do.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you

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Speaker 1: should know that we're all melting.

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Speaker 2: Addition, yeah, I'm just a migrating fern.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one to.

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Speaker 2: Be blowing through the forest looking for a new home. Sure,

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Speaker 2: I'm a spore.

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Speaker 1: What happens when you get their spore?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll probably grow into a beautiful new fern because

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Speaker 2: ferns are pretty party.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome, And I'll bet you'll contribute to society and

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Speaker 1: all sorts of beneficial ways that ferns that were already

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Speaker 1: there couldn't necessarily do.

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Speaker 2: I hope so there is fern stuff in here. And

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Speaker 2: I have a wonderful fern scene at my camp on

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Speaker 2: the other side of the feeder creek that goes into

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Speaker 2: the main creek. I call it. I even have a son.

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Speaker 2: This is fern forest, and it's a forest of ferns.

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Speaker 2: It's quite lovely.

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Speaker 1: God knows where they're from, because those things can travel

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Speaker 1: quite a bit, as we'll see.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be from Alabama easily.

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Speaker 1: I'm not kidding easily. Man. I've got a stat that's

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Speaker 1: gonna blow your mind in a second. Uh oh boy, Actually,

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Speaker 1: I'll just bust it out now you're ready.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, How far can a fern travel?

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Speaker 1: A fern can travel. The Tasmanian tree fern in particular,

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Speaker 1: can send it spores five hundred to eight hundred kilometers

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Speaker 1: te hundred to five hundred miles from the mother plant.

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Speaker 1: And get this, a single frond a fraud produces more

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Speaker 1: than seven hundred and fifty million of those spores. Wow,

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Speaker 1: So you can understand that ferns, I mean, you find

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Speaker 1: ferns everywhere. They're really hardy. They can actually survive cold,

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Speaker 1: colder temperatures than you would think. They also thrive in

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Speaker 1: the tropics. They're like a really great pioneer plant. They

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Speaker 1: usually are among the first large plants that show up

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Speaker 1: in like a newly cleared part of Earth. Right, this

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Speaker 1: all makes sense then, Okay, so what we're talking about then,

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Speaker 1: is that those ferns that showed up in this new

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Speaker 1: place and said, hey, let's get this, let's get this

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Speaker 1: biosphere going again, let's get this biome back into shape

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Speaker 1: after this wildfire or something like that, or there's like

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Speaker 1: a stampede because there was a really great ice cream

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Speaker 1: truck that drove through one of those two. Those ferns

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Speaker 1: have migrated. They came from Tasmania apparently all the way

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Speaker 1: to wherever the ice cream truck was. Right now they're there,

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Speaker 1: and so they actually moved in that sense, which is

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Speaker 1: really surprising because plants are what are known as sessile organisms.

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Speaker 1: They don't move from place to place individually as organisms,

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Speaker 1: but as a species they can actually move around like

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Speaker 1: inch forms. Pretty good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty cool. I didn't really know much about this.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about plant migration and the idea, well not idea,

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Speaker 2: the very real fact that just like humans and animals,

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Speaker 2: will go to more hospitable climbs as the climate may

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Speaker 2: change or just I don't know, just to seek a

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Speaker 2: better place to be. Plants and trees and things on

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Speaker 2: mass do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's all sorts of ways that they do

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Speaker 1: that too. So they do it by dispersing their seeds

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Speaker 1: or their spores in that case, fern spores or single

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Speaker 1: cell organisms. They're not like a seed technically, but they

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Speaker 1: do the same thing. Right, They show up in a

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Speaker 1: place and set up shop and they start rocking out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And ferns, you know, it depends and

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Speaker 2: we'll get all into this stuff. But how fast this

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Speaker 2: happens depends on different factors. How far these plants can

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Speaker 2: migrate depends on different factors. Why this is happening is

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Speaker 2: generally climate change. Yeah, And plants are in trees and

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Speaker 2: things are generally moving north or up in elevation if

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Speaker 2: they hit mountains.

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Speaker 1: Or south in the southern hemisphere exactly.

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Speaker 2: So that's sort of the general pattern. And we mentioned

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Speaker 2: ferns because, like you said, those spores can really haul.

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Speaker 2: Ferns also mature very quickly, and you know, the wind

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Speaker 2: can just that's why I got that's why I got

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Speaker 2: a fern forest at my camp. Probably.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so they check both of the boxes that you

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Speaker 1: need to be a fat migrating plant species. They produce

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Speaker 1: seeds or spores at a very young age, and their

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Speaker 1: seed or spore can travel very far distances right right,

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Speaker 1: so they can move around. And also it doesn't hurt that.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, ferns are adaptable. The trees and other

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Speaker 1: plants still move quite so fast. But they move, especially

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Speaker 1: if you look at the fossil record, a lot faster

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Speaker 1: than they actually should. So if you pay attention to

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Speaker 1: a single organism saying oak, those acorns don't travel terribly far.

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Speaker 1: They may get a little further away from the drip

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Speaker 1: line if a squirrel happens to bury it somewhere and

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Speaker 1: a new oak tree grows.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Ander Samberg who described acorns as

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Speaker 1: solar powered factories for producing more oak trees.

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Speaker 2: Whoaa Andy Sandberg said that?

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Speaker 1: No, Anders Sandberg. Oh, okay, he's a philosopher at Oxford.

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Speaker 2: That makes a lot more sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Andy Samberg. He ate his lime accidentally in

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Speaker 1: his Corona bottle. That's that's what he's got.

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Speaker 2: You knew he's married to, uh, Patricia Arquette Nosanna Arquette.

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Speaker 2: You've been guessing Patricia Arkette for a lot of things lately.

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Speaker 2: I feel like he's married to Yeah, I feel like

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Speaker 2: that's come up before recently. Maybe I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Her name just rolls off the tone.

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Speaker 2: I know a big fan of hers. He is married

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Speaker 2: to what's her name, Joanna Newsom, the singer and harpist.

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Speaker 1: Oh neat And if you like, if you're.

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Speaker 2: Into architecture and homes, you should seek out I don't

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Speaker 2: know if his architectural digest or something, but someone did

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Speaker 2: a spread on their home and it is really something else.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's Andy Samberg Power.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that would just checked a quick detour.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait I wasn't done.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, good, go ahead.

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Speaker 1: So if you look in an individual tree, an oak tree,

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Speaker 1: those acorns don't go particularly far away from the tree,

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Speaker 1: as the old saying goes, But the fact that they

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Speaker 1: do fall away from the tree moons that very slowly,

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Speaker 1: some of those seedlings are going to grow up a

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Speaker 1: little more northward or a little more southward than its

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Speaker 1: mother plant, and very very slowly, the whole group of

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Speaker 1: oaks can move southward or northward right.

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Speaker 2: Over hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands of years

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Speaker 2: so long.

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Speaker 1: The thing is, if you look at the fossil record,

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Speaker 1: they move way faster than that than they should. And

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Speaker 1: there's actually a paradox that was named by a guy

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Speaker 1: named Clement.

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Speaker 2: Reid, right reads paradox.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got a great, great title for.

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Speaker 2: It, of rapid plant migration. That's the full title.

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Speaker 1: It sounds almost like snake oil from the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of does.

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Speaker 1: So what is it?

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Speaker 2: Oh, okay, I didn't ever set me up. We're still

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Speaker 2: tight after all these years, for sure. So what he

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Speaker 2: found from the fossil record, like you were talking about,

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Speaker 2: and as we'll see that that one, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: a pretty good way to study this stuff, especially pollen fossils.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, because they're so hardy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So he saw that trees were migrating a lot

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Speaker 2: faster than like the rate that you would think, and

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Speaker 2: so he like those oaks. I think was one example

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Speaker 2: you gave on the British Isles after the last glacial period,

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Speaker 2: over a span of like ten thousand years or so,

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Speaker 2: they traveled about six hundred miles and it would normally

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Speaker 2: take about a million years. The seeds if the seeds

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Speaker 2: were just dispersed in a typical way. But what he

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Speaker 2: figured was that what may be happening here is like

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Speaker 2: some weird weather event happens that sent things much farther

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Speaker 2: than usual, or like some deer or something eats something

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Speaker 2: and then poops out something really far away from where

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Speaker 2: it started, and so all of a sudden, this animal

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Speaker 2: has spread it via their poopoo.

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Speaker 1: Right, And this this is how like large scale migration happens,

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Speaker 1: or I should say rapid migration over long distances, right right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the it's the unusual, not just the acorn falling

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Speaker 1: and hitting the ground. It's not just gravity assisted. It's

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Speaker 1: animal assisted, which is called zoochorey, or it's wind assisted,

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Speaker 1: which is called a nemo corey, or water assisted, which

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Speaker 1: is called hydrochory. And that's just the way that some

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Speaker 1: plants disperse their seeds. That's kind of on top of

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Speaker 1: the normal way they disperse it, which is just dropping

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Speaker 1: it from their leaves or the spores blowing on the wind,

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Speaker 1: which I guess is one type of corey.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So like if a squirrel loaded up its mouthful

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Speaker 2: of things m hm, and somehow found its way into

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Speaker 2: your camper. As you said, off for Arizona.

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Speaker 1: That would be a freak event.

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Speaker 2: Sure, it probably wouldn't be en mass, but you know,

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Speaker 2: that's a way a dree could move.

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Speaker 1: All it takes is that one that one oak to

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Speaker 1: make it sure to just survive, and then it starts

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Speaker 1: its own new part of the range.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And we Alsho should point out when when

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Speaker 2: was redoing this. This is a while ago, like one

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Speaker 2: hundred plus years ago, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a geologist. I don't know if we said,

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Speaker 1: but his reads Paradox of Rapid Plant Migration came out

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Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety nine and it was a smash hit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so people, I mean, for at least that long,

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Speaker 2: science has been sort of curious about this, this migration

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Speaker 2: happening at a rate that they would not expect.

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Speaker 1: Right. The thing is is that's really hard when you

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Speaker 1: throw in that X factor to calculate how fast and

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Speaker 1: actual species can migrate. And there's a few ways that

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Speaker 1: you can study that kind of thing. One, as you said,

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Speaker 1: is studying the fossil record, which is super helpful, but

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Speaker 1: it's not showing you what's going on contemporaneously or within

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Speaker 1: the last couple decades. This is ten thousand, a million

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Speaker 1: years ago something like that, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So if you wanted to study something a little

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Speaker 2: closer to home timeline wise, you would maybe set up

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Speaker 2: what's called a permanent vegetation plot, so just you would

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Speaker 2: mark off an area and you would go back there,

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Speaker 2: you know, every so often, like every six months or

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Speaker 2: every year or so, and just sort of chart what's happening.

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Speaker 2: That's one really good way. I think they've been doing

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Speaker 2: this for about one hundred years since in nineteen twenty,

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Speaker 2: so we've got a pretty good data set there. Something

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Speaker 2: else you could do is go somewhere like let's say

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Speaker 2: you dug up some cool scientific journal from a scientist

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Speaker 2: from you know, two hundred years ago that went and

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Speaker 2: explored some island, and while they may not have like

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Speaker 2: charted everything out exactly like you would in today's science,

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Speaker 2: they may have a really nice diary about all the

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Speaker 2: plant life there and things that they saw there and

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Speaker 2: where it might be, and you could go back to

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Speaker 2: that place and it's not quite as tight of a record,

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Speaker 2: but you could still get a pretty good idea of

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Speaker 2: what's happening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, depending on whose journal you're working for, and back

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Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, a Danish team of scientists followed the

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Speaker 1: record left by a nineteenth century geologist named Alexander von

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Speaker 1: Humboldt from Germany, who was just an interesting dude in

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Speaker 1: and of himself. He called coffee concentrated sunbeams. So he's

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Speaker 1: that kind of guy.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, that's great.

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Speaker 1: They went back to Chimborazo Volcano in Ecuador, which Humboldt

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Speaker 1: studied in detail, and not only did he study the

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Speaker 1: vegetation there and he classified all sorts of new plants

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Speaker 1: that Europeans didn't know about at that point, he also

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Speaker 1: noted exactly where they were on the mountain as far

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Speaker 1: as the elevation went.

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Speaker 2: Super helpful, super helpful.

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Speaker 1: So based on this information, the twenty twelve Danes were

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Speaker 1: able to go back and recreate his trip, and then

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Speaker 1: they were able to note what plants were where, and

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Speaker 1: they found that everything, all species, on average, had moved

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Speaker 1: up the mountain by about an average of about five

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Speaker 1: hundred meters, which is significant and it's like almost a mile.

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Speaker 1: It's like eight tenths of a mile.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's the average. Yeah, there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of aeriation within that, but that's it's a long way

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Speaker 2: for sure, and what we found out and I guess

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Speaker 2: this comes up a little later, but a plant can

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Speaker 2: find more hospitable climbs going up five hundred meters than

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Speaker 2: they might by going let's just say north, like ninety

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Speaker 2: to one hundred miles. Yes, so like a much quicker

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Speaker 2: road to better climbs if you just go up that

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Speaker 2: mountain for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of two ways they move is longitudinally, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or altitudinally.

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Speaker 2: You gotta be in shape, though, Oh, for sure you

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Speaker 2: can climb that mountain. Should we take a.

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Speaker 1: Break, I think we should. But just to wrap it

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Speaker 1: up real quick, there's a bunch of ways you can

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Speaker 1: study the movement of trees. But it's so slow and

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Speaker 1: it happens over such long timelines, longer than a human timeline,

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Speaker 1: that it's harder to do than you'd think. But we

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Speaker 1: still have figured out some ways to do it.

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Speaker 2: All right, we'll be right back and we'll talk about

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Speaker 2: all this stuff in more detail, right it For this

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Speaker 2: one other way we failed to mention. Probably would have

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Speaker 2: been better to just say that before the break, But again,

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Speaker 2: still learning after sixteen years. Satellite images is another way

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Speaker 2: that you can study on the short term. You know,

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Speaker 2: the fossil pollen is much longer, and those plant plots

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Speaker 2: and things like that, vegetation plots our shorter term. But

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Speaker 2: satellite images can also help.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to catch like a venus fly

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Speaker 1: trap and the act of leapfrogging over some other planet,

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Speaker 1: satellite image is going to help you with that. Fossil

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Speaker 1: record won't show that.

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Speaker 2: Here's the thing with all this though, It's not like

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk a lot about climate change, because

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Speaker 2: that's what's spurring a lot of the movement right now.

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Speaker 2: But the Earth's climate has changed a lot over the

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Speaker 2: you know, over the years, and this is not some

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Speaker 2: new thing. There used to be periods of time where

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Speaker 2: the Sahara Desert was quite green and there was grasses

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Speaker 2: growing there and tropical plants growing there, and elephants roaming

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Speaker 2: the Sahara and wildlife living there. And they've learned that

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Speaker 2: this is actually one of the things that helped move

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Speaker 2: you know, humans around, Like humans could actually migrate through

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Speaker 2: the Sahara with much more ease than they could before

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Speaker 2: during these green Sahara periods.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so fascinating that you know, who knows when

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Speaker 1: we would have migrated out of Africa into Europe and

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Speaker 1: the ages had the green Sahara not happened, didn't that

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Speaker 1: just nuts?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like hundreds of miles. It says here that they

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Speaker 2: would find tropical plants growing where they shouldn't be growing

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Speaker 2: alongside the desert stuff that survived. So that was this weird,

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Speaker 2: sort of mixed up biome for a time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in the green Sahara period, there were a few

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Speaker 1: of them that had been documented, but they figured out

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Speaker 1: that they happened about every twenty three thousand years. We're

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Speaker 1: due for one in about twelve thousand years something like that.

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Speaker 1: And it's based on the tilt in Earth's axis. That's

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Speaker 1: neither here nor there. But the point is during these

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Speaker 1: periods where the Sahara was just a humid kind of

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Speaker 1: tropical forest, there was a mixture kind of what you

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Speaker 1: touched upon, of different like you said, a hybrid biome

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Speaker 1: of stuff that wouldn't necessarily live together under normal circumstances,

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Speaker 1: but got along just famously in the couple thousand years

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Speaker 1: that the Sahara was green and those plants were growing together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just amazing to think about.

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Speaker 1: And then in North America we have another example too,

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Speaker 1: after the Laurentide Glacier, which is way up in the

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Speaker 1: Arctic right now, down in Indiana and northern New Jersey. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and when it retreated, it took everything with it. It

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Speaker 1: took bowlers, it carved out lakes, it did all sorts

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Speaker 1: of neat stuff. But what it didn't leave behind was vegetation.

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Speaker 1: So it left it was like a giant ice cream

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Speaker 1: truck basically. Yeah, it left nothing behind, and it was

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Speaker 1: just a great place for plants to pioneer and colon ice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's why you have pine trees in

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Speaker 2: New Jersey, right.

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Speaker 1: I would think so, yeah, or in the south because

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Speaker 1: they were too far they were trapped below or yeah,

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Speaker 1: below the Laurentide Glacier down in the southeast, even though

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Speaker 1: they normally would have been growing in the north, right,

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Speaker 1: And as the glacier retreated, the climate changed in that area,

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Speaker 1: and so the trees just moved on up. So that's

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Speaker 1: an example of migration as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh wait, I thought they but I thought they

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Speaker 2: were It was more hospitable in the south for these trees,

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Speaker 2: and that migration sent them north. Yeah, that's what I said, right, Oh, okay, maybe. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The other thing we should talk about as far as

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Speaker 2: climate change goes, because, like I said, we're going to

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Speaker 2: mention that a lot is the rate of change of

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Speaker 2: the climate is increasing, as most people agree on, and

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Speaker 2: that is kind of where we are now in discussing

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Speaker 2: this is like, is the rate of climate increasing too

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Speaker 2: fast for the plant migration to catch up or in

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Speaker 2: some cases are the plants migrating ahead of that pace?

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Speaker 2: And that's really sort of you know, a lot of

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Speaker 2: this episode is about this rate of change. In the

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Speaker 2: two hundred years since the beginning of the Industrial Age,

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Speaker 2: no coincidence, the temperature of the Earth has increased more

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Speaker 2: than one degree. And again, yeah we all know now

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Speaker 2: that you know, one degree is like a huge, huge deal.

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Speaker 1: It's one point eight degrees fahrenheit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, But er point three seven of that change

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Speaker 2: over the past two hundred years has come, it's twenty eleven.

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Speaker 2: So it's people have you know, someone has stepped on

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Speaker 2: the gas here. Yeah, And it's happening much much faster

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Speaker 2: and seemingly in many cases, fasting faster than these plants

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Speaker 2: can catch up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So plants are used to migrating like they've been

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Speaker 1: migrating through our Earth's history, but these conditions are different.

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Speaker 1: It's not like it was before. Even when the Earth

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Speaker 1: was heating up after the last ice Age, I think,

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Speaker 1: did you say that it took about an average of

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Speaker 1: fourteen hundred years to increase by one degree after the

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Speaker 1: last glacial period?

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Speaker 2: No, No, that was the setup. That would have been

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Speaker 2: very helpful.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I mean think about it. So we've achieved one

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Speaker 1: degree in two hundred years, and after the last glacial

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Speaker 1: period ended, the Earth heated one degree every fourteen hundred years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's called a rapid increase.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like you said, somebody's put their foot on the gas,

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Speaker 1: and that's somebody is Western industrialized nations, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So that's one thing that's really kind of putting the

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Speaker 1: heat on plants literally is their southernmost ranges or their

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Speaker 1: northernmost ranges, depending on what I guess. They're equatorial pointing

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Speaker 1: ranges where it's hotter. Those are the ones that are

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Speaker 1: really at stake. So are those plants ranges big enough

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Speaker 1: that they'll be able to survive that change in climate

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Speaker 1: and just keep moving northward or are they going to

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Speaker 1: be outpaced by the movement of the climate because the

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Speaker 1: climate is racing towards the poles, just like the plants are, right,

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Speaker 1: So who's faster. Well, it turns out if you talk

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Speaker 1: about New England's trees, they move something I think red

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Speaker 1: oaks is what it was that this University of Vermont

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Speaker 1: group was studying. They move something like a tenth to

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Speaker 1: three tenths of a mile a year. Right. The climate

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Speaker 1: is moving something like four to six miles a year.

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Speaker 1: So the climate is really kind of showing up as

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Speaker 1: kind of the who's Usain Bolt of this race? And

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Speaker 1: I don't know the plants are like me racing Usain Bolt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that lab group in Vermont, they all have t

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Speaker 2: shirts that just say you do the math exactly. It's

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Speaker 2: very smarty, but they get their point across for sure.

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Speaker 2: There's another example of and you know, we've kind of

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Speaker 2: been talking about northern movement, which is generally the pattern

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Speaker 2: but not always. There's a researcher at Purdue name song

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Speaker 2: Lend Fay. I think Fay or Fhi. I don't know Fi.

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Speaker 2: I bet it's fine who studied eighty six species of

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Speaker 2: trees in the eastern US over about thirty years from

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Speaker 2: the mid eighties to twenty fifteen. And it depends on

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Speaker 2: what the tree is. Hardwoods, scarlet oaks, red maples, magnolia's

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Speaker 2: are moving west at about one and a half kilometers

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Speaker 2: a year because the Midwest is becoming more wet and

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Speaker 2: the conditions are good for those trees to grow. Soft

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Speaker 2: woods shortlya pines, red pines, bald cypress. They're actually moving

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Speaker 2: north about a kilometer of the year, a kilometer a year.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: Different plants and trees are moving in different directions at

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Speaker 2: different rates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's very much akin to a neighborhood that's this

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Speaker 1: old settled in neighborhood with a bunch of mix of

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Speaker 1: people that's being gentrified. It's being pushed out and separated.

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Speaker 1: Not everybody, just the whole neighborhood doesn't just move. This

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Speaker 1: neighborhood breaks up and goes in different directions. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so to ecologists in arborous like this is very concerning

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Speaker 1: because for a long time we've looked at groups of

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Speaker 1: plants as communities. Like some some plants go with other plants,

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Speaker 1: like I think, was it beach and hickory? Where is it?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I like hickory, though.

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Speaker 1: We can't leave that in there. Oh Yeah, hemlock. I

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Speaker 1: knew it was an h H tree. Beach and hemlocks

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Speaker 1: go together like peanut butter and chocolate, so too do

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Speaker 1: like firs and spruces. Right, So when you find one

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Speaker 1: of these, you usually find the other one. And there's

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Speaker 1: also a bunch of other plants that kind of interact,

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Speaker 1: and usually some types of animals that hang out in

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Speaker 1: those same types of forests. So if you've got the

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Speaker 1: hemlocks going north and the beach going west, who are

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Speaker 1: the hemlocks going to mix with and who are the

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Speaker 1: beach going to mix with when they start to set

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Speaker 1: up these new communities. And that was really troubling to ecologists,

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Speaker 1: but I think palinologists, these fossil pollen scientists have said

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Speaker 1: it's always been this way. Communities aren't permanent, they're kind

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Speaker 1: of instable. They just seem permanent to us because our

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Speaker 1: life years there are lifespans on the order of like

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Speaker 1: seventy eighty years, right, This is much it's a much

429
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Speaker 1: slower process, but it's a constantly changing turnover, so it's

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Speaker 1: not that big of a deal. But again, because of

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Speaker 1: the pace of climate change, when these hemlocks get further

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Speaker 1: north and the beach get further west, they're going to

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Speaker 1: have far less time to develop new connections and networks

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Speaker 1: with the new plants that they set up communities with.

435
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the other thing too. You know earlier when

436
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 2: I mentioned that a series of trees might move up

437
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 2: a mountain side because it's a way quicker way to

438
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 2: get to a more hospitable climate than moving that ninety

439
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: miles north. Yeah, when they and this happens in other

440
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: cases as well. It's not just like up a mountain side,

441
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: but when they get to the place where they're going,

442
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 2: it may be a better place, may be more hospitable

443
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 2: climate wise, but other things aren't so great. So if

444
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 2: you move up that mountain slope, let's say you have

445
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 2: shallower soil, and so those trees move up there because

446
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 2: the climate's better. But then they get there and the

447
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: soil isn't as great, so they get squeezed into where

448
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 2: they can grow, maybe into like a tiny little narrow

449
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 2: band that's you know, potential choking off the rest of

450
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 2: the forest.

451
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've figured out it's kind of like hiding in

452
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: a closet during a house fire, Like you're gonna be

453
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 1: safe in the short term, but in the long term.

454
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: It's not a great strategy, but it's not like the

455
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: trees have any choice. They can't go back down. It's

456
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: too hot there, they can't move further up. There's the

457
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: soils inhospitable, so they're trapped and they're eventually going to

458
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: become a thinner and thinner band until they just pop

459
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: out of existence.

460
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 2: That's right. And the other thing that can happen too when,

461
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 2: like you said, when they get to a new place

462
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 2: and they don't have enough time to make new friends,

463
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, that can open the window for

464
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: bad friends to show up.

465
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and all of a.

466
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: Sudden, invasive species are there, and then you've got a

467
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: whole other set of problems.

468
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, the ones that wear like leather jackets with the

469
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: little silver studs on their shoulders, those are the ones

470
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: you gotta watch out for. Those plants.

471
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 2: If this all seems very kind of on too long

472
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 2: of a timeline for you to care, first of all,

473
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: you probably don't care much about climate change, because that's

474
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 2: the whole name of the game there. But maple syrup

475
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: is a good example that Livia found Lyvia helped us out,

476
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 2: and she did a great job with this the maple tree,

477
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 2: which the species is that the sugar maple is one

478
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: of the two main species that we use to get

479
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 2: that delicious maple syrup.

480
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this isn't a side. Sugar maple are two

481
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: beautiful words that form an even more beautiful.

482
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 2: You are right on the money, my friend. You know,

483
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: sugar maple. It just sounds nice coming out of my mouth. Yeah.

484
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 2: They have been migrating north into Canada, and you might say, well,

485
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: that's great. Canada is a fine place to live, and

486
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: I'm sure they love their maple syrup there too. But

487
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: in Quebec, the researchers have found that they're not gonna

488
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: go beyond their current range up there because they're boreal

489
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 2: forests up there, so the soil again, the climate might

490
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 2: be better, but then they get up there and the

491
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,120
Speaker 2: soil pH and the microbe content and the soil is

492
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: is not what they're used to and not what they

493
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 2: work well with and grow well with. So they're not

494
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: doing well up there in the forest.

495
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: No, no, And that's it's the exact same position as

496
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: the trees that are trying to go up the mountain

497
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: are running into. Eventually, these trees that are moving into

498
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: the boreal forest areas. They're like they can't go any further,

499
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: like they're not adapted to that.

500
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 2: Over a long enough timeline, yeah, maybe.

501
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: Those sugar maples could, like a few of them, could

502
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: land in the boreal forest and end up surviving in

503
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 1: that kind of soil and then they would be adapted

504
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: for and they'd start reproducing. And then as the boreal

505
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: forest moved closer to the Poles or the Arctic, those

506
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: trees would move where the boreal forests used to be. Right,

507
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: Totally not a problem over a long enough time span. Again,

508
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: climate change has so drastically shortened that time span that

509
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: there's probably not going to be time for this, and

510
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: those sugar maples will just run into that boreal soil

511
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: and just they they'll it'll be like hitting a brick

512
00:27:58,520 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: wall for their species.

513
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, another issue that can happen. And I know this

514
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 2: all just seems like doomsday stuff, kind of is it?

515
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: Kind of it though, Let's say, like the Amazon episode

516
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 2: that we talked about, when trees are moving out there,

517
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,479
Speaker 2: they might be replaced by something and it may not

518
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 2: be an invasive species, but it may just be weeds

519
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: or grasses or something. Those aren't as good at capturing

520
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: carbon as those trees were, so then that accelerates the

521
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: problem even more.

522
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: Right, And then there's another if you want to keep

523
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: talking about doom state scenarios, those boreal forests, they actually

524
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: are if you look at a map or if you

525
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: look at planet Earth from outer space. Uh, they're dark,

526
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: which means that they absorb more sunlight, more heat, more

527
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: UV radiation. Then the polar caps the ice that reflects

528
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: it back into space. So as those boreal forests advance

529
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: further and further north, toward toward the Arctic or the

530
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: North Pole, and there's less and less ice to reflect that,

531
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: there's more and more heat for them to trap, which

532
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: is just going to heat the Earth that much faster.

533
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: It's a it's a positive feedback loop that's super duper negative.

534
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, very negative. Maybe we should cover tropical things moving

535
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: north and then take a break.

536
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I got some good stuff on that, man,

537
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: I'm super exciting.

538
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it goes both ways. So you can

539
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: have like tropical plants and tropical zones like Florida where

540
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: you know, the Earth is warming, so they can move

541
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: further and further north, and all of a sudden, these

542
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,719
Speaker 2: plants that are native to tropical zones are ending up

543
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: in areas where it's you know, not necessarily a tropical zone.

544
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: I can't remember which zone.

545
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: Atlanta, Atlanta's seven B and aight a seven.

546
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: I love that, you know that stuff. But the point is,

547
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: like these these like kill kill frosts that you might

548
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: get that happen to I love that name kill frost,

549
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: like it'll get really cold and frost over and like

550
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: kill things. Maybe that shouldn't be there if that's happening

551
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: less and less and there's even less in the way

552
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: of those tropical plants moving northward.

553
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: Right, and so I guess climatologists are expecting that by

554
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: the end of the century, which seems like a long

555
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: way away. But buddy, that's like less than that's like

556
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: eight decades, seventy something years, maybe even seventy seven, you

557
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: could say to be exact, But in seventy seven years,

558
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: climatologists expect all of Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona,

559
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: and California, guessing the southern half to be tropical. Those

560
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: are subtropical.

561
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: Now.

562
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: If you want an example of what a tropical country is.

563
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: Go to Ecuador, go to Guatemala. Those are tropical, and

564
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: Alabama and Arizona are going to be like Guatemala by

565
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: the end of the century. Yeah, that's insane.

566
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 2: I know, it's really uh, and it's happening. It's not

567
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: like like they've they've shown that it's currently happening.

568
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's happening because, like you were saying, those

569
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: extreme cold events are becoming rarer and they're becoming warmer,

570
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: so the coldest day of the year is not as

571
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: cold as it used to be.

572
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 2: In other words, I think the scientific term is kill frost.

573
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: I love that. That is definitely a band name.

574
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: Oh for sure. Like what are they though, kill?

575
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: Oh? I don't know.

576
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 2: It's heavy or something, right, I don't know.

577
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: Remember Destroyer they were great, They didn't really destroy They

578
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: had like kind of like a belying name, you know

579
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: what I mean.

580
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: No, that's true, so it could be like that. I

581
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 2: think he named the band that uh for that reason

582
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: is a bit of a tongue in cheek thing.

583
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: Maybe I knew I liked that, Kay.

584
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Behart is who we're talking about, not joy Tony.

585
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 2: I know it's a dan I think right.

586
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just know a couple of destroyer songs.

587
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: I don't I want to know the guy's life story,

588
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: do I well?

589
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: Settled down? No, I wanted to look it up because

590
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: he is. He's also a part time member of maybe

591
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: my favorite all time band, the New Pornographers, like modern band.

592
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, he's on most of their albums, but

593
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: hasn't done the past few.

594
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: Who was the singer for New Pornographers? Was it Nico case.

595
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: Well, she sings and Carl Newman sings, and also the

596
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: great Catherine Calder who is the stuff you should know listener?

597
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: Oh neat Oh wow, Yeah.

598
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: I found that out and I was like, oh, I

599
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: got to get in touch with her, and I did,

600
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: and now we are email buddies. And on the last

601
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: New Pornographers show in Atlanta, she's kind enough to meet

602
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: me behind the bus as they say, in the back

603
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: parking lot, and we chatted for a while and she's

604
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: just wonderful. And she also gonna plug her other band

605
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: because she has put out a great album last year

606
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: with her band Front Person, So get front Person. If

607
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: you like synthy goodness and like a beautiful angelic voice,

608
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: then get front Person.

609
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: Speaking of cynthy goodness. That's so funny you bring that up.

610
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: Just today I discovered an entirely new genre of music

611
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: called dungeon synth. Have you heard of it?

612
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 2: What? No?

613
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: Okay, okay. It's a really well named genre. But it

614
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: is synth, super like cynthy synth, like eighties kind of synth.

615
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: I love it.

616
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: But the kind of synth that you would find is

617
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: like the score to a seventies Hobbit, like cartoon movie,

618
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: animated movie. It's super wizardy and fantasy. It just evokes

619
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,719
Speaker 1: all that stuff. It does such a good job of it.

620
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: But I've only heard one album. I can't remember whose

621
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: it was. But check out Frost. Checkout Dungeon Synth. Yeah,

622
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: Kill Frost is a Dungeon synth band.

623
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: Nice work, all right, Dungeon Synth and the front Person

624
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: album their most recent Parade.

625
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: Is great, very nice. I think time for a break.

626
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take a break. We'll be back with more

627
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: album reviews right after.

628
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: This, So Chuck. One thing you can say about humans

629
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: is that we are action oriented. Sure, in a lot

630
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: of ways, I will give you that. We sit around

631
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: in bicker and complain and moan and undermine one another.

632
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: But when the chips are down, we can invent our

633
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: way out of a lot of problems. And invention doesn't

634
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: have to necessarily mean that we, you know, put some

635
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: metal on metal and made it go on its own.

636
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: It can be something like inventing new areas for species

637
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: that are in danger of being lost to climate change

638
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: to settle and make another part of their range out of.

639
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 2: Well, sir, it sounds like you were talking about forest

640
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: assisted migration by God, I am. That's right, and that

641
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: is basically and we'll talk about the good, the bad,

642
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: and the ugly of this. That is human being scientists

643
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 2: getting involved in the ecosystem and nature and spreading seed

644
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 2: and sort of getting ahead of the pace if the

645
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 2: pace isn't where it should be to keep up with

646
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: climate change, saying well, let me give you a little

647
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 2: little help forward. And this can be kind of thorny

648
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 2: because it's it's humans, like I said, getting involved in

649
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: the ecosystem in ways that science has long said, let

650
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: nature work it out, and that's the best way to

651
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: do it, because you don't know what can happen once

652
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 2: you start messing around.

653
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, like nature finds a way, it does these guys

654
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: are saying. The people who are in favor of this

655
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: are saying that made sense before July twenty twenty three,

656
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: which is probably the hottest month in Earth's history, at

657
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: least as far as since it cooled basically, and that

658
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: followed the hottest June ever, right sore. These ecologists that

659
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: are like, no, we need to take much more of

660
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: an active hand in this, are saying like it's our

661
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: obligation to do something. Not doing anything is going to

662
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: be more destructive. It's like saying like, yeah, we shouldn't

663
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: move these people out of this house that's being bulldozed

664
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: over because we don't know what they're going to do

665
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: in their new neighborhood, so we're just gonna stand there

666
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: and watch them die as the bulldozer crushes them inside

667
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 1: of their house. That's the That's a pretty good analogy.

668
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: If I do congratulate myself here, it's very much akin

669
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 1: to that. And so those ecologies have a pretty good point,

670
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 1: Like it's like, yeah, it's not a great, perfect solution,

671
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: but it's way better than doing nothing.

672
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: And they're not doing it willy nilly though they're very

673
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 2: aware of the potential pitfalls, like you know, spreading disease

674
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: and introducing something to an area that could be really

675
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: bad for other things in that area. So they're not

676
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 2: just out there, you know, with a seed cannon blasting

677
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: stuff all over the place, like like tall lungern or something.

678
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: Wearing bike coat shorts.

679
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 2: There's a couple of different kinds though. There's there's forest

680
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 2: assisted migration. The one that's really sort of thorny is

681
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: assisted rains range expansion. So like if you're if you're

682
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: spreading something within the zone where it might still normally

683
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: grow in like two hundred years, that's one thing. If

684
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: you're moving something completely out of that range, Like you know,

685
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: they do forecasting and stuff, and they're like, what might

686
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 2: this area look like one hundred miles from here one

687
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 2: hundred years from now. If they're moving something completely out

688
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: of a range that it would even potentially grow, that

689
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: gets way way tricky. And I think there's less of

690
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 2: that happening, right.

691
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: Yes, for sure, Like, but you hit it on the head.

692
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: They're saying, like, Okay, by twenty one hundred, what is

693
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: this area going to be, Like is it going to

694
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: be like where these red oaks like to live now?

695
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, and if so, maybe we can

696
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: give them a head start and hope that some of

697
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: them will survive and adapt and start colonizing there. Right, Yeah,

698
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: it's even pricklier than assisted range expansion. There's another, even

699
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: more radical one called species rescue or assisted species migration,

700
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: and that is where you take a plant completely out

701
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: of its normal range, out of what you would even

702
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: predict would be its normal range, and just move it somewhere.

703
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: It would never be right.

704
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: This is considered the riskiest of the three by ecologists

705
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: because you can easily take something that's totally innocuous and

706
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: benign under normal circumstances and make it into an invasive

707
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: species when you move it. And the critics of this

708
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: typical point to the monterey Pine as a good example.

709
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. It's endangered in California. It is native

710
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: to California, but they have introduced it in Australia and

711
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 2: it's it's I don't know about wreaking habit, but but

712
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: it's damaging the it's an invasive species on Australia.

713
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. They consider it a weed and when

714
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: they see it they pluck it. They do not like

715
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: those in New South Wales. And Victoria. I believe states.

716
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: Now that's a weed, right, I don't know.

717
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: No, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that.

718
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: I think you just you just came up with a

719
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: brand new type of accent. Frankly, yeah, can we hear

720
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: it again? No, okay, I'm just gonna go back and

721
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: replay it.

722
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 2: You know. It's funny, though, is I use the lady

723
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: on my phone that talks to me. What's it called

724
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: on Apples? I don't use Siri, but I still have

725
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: a voice for maps and stuff, and I use a

726
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: I usually go between an Irish woman and a Kiwi

727
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 2: A New Zealander. Oh yeah, and the New Zealander says

728
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 2: ry and it always cracks me up.

729
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: That sound like Matthew McConaughey.

730
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: It does. At the next street, take a rye.

731
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: I gotta hear that. Yeah, I didn't know you could

732
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: do something that. Gee whiz to an Apple iPhone make it.

733
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 2: Talk about okay, some some regular old thing.

734
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: I don't do. I'd like sounds. Digital sounds are one

735
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: of those. Like I don't have mesophonia, but if I do,

736
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 1: it's for digital sounds. Like when I get a new computer,

737
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 1: the first thing I do is turn off all sounds

738
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: on it, like anything have to go. Like I have

739
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: to change my text sound every month or so because

740
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: I'll just get like anxiety from it. I can't stand

741
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: text sounds, so I have to come up with a

742
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: new one. I do not like them.

743
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: Well, do you know what I do? Is I record?

744
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 2: I record my own text and phone rings and stuff.

745
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I record my voice. Like when my

746
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: phone rings, I never have my ringer on, but if

747
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 2: it ever does, it's me going ring, ring, ring ring,

748
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 2: that's all. And if I get a text, it's me

749
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 2: going text. Man, that's great. Yeah, I get strange looks,

750
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 2: but who cares?

751
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: Can I just use yours?

752
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll set them to you if you want, thank you, yeah,

753
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 2: or you can, like you can make one specific for

754
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: you me, which is like maybe just your sweet voice

755
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,919
Speaker 2: saying hell, hello, my love.

756
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: I used to have a ring tone with her singing

757
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: that part from What's Love Got to Do with It?

758
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: That?

759
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, But she just kept saying that over and

760
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: over again. It's pretty great.

761
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 2: I'd love to hear that. It's also kind of maddening.

762
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it never was. Actually I never got sick

763
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: of that one. I think that says a lot.

764
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 2: But it's better than delu doo de lu doo doo.

765
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, you just stressed me out. Sorry you got

766
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: anything else?

767
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 2: Uh? Now, I had a joke about your dislike of

768
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 2: digital sounds, but your love of craft work flies in

769
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 2: the face of that. But I won't even say it.

770
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: That's more a statement than a joke.

771
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is true.

772
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: It's quite accurate. I think that's it, Chuck.

773
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing else. This is this is a good one.

774
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 2: Look out, you know, if you're in if you're in

775
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 2: New Mexico and you see a palm tree growing, then

776
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 2: watch out.

777
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: That's right. It means that you've gone tropical and you're

778
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: in trouble now.

779
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, not in a good way.

780
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,919
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about plant migration, there's

781
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting stuff out there on the internet

782
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: to read and go do that and maybe go become

783
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 1: an ecologist and figure out how to save the planet.

784
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 2: Please I agree.

785
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: Since Chucks had agreed, it's time for a listener mail.

786
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 2: This is from William Lloyd. We did a shorty on

787
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: the NATO phonetic alphabet and what we didn't consider was this, Hey, guys,

788
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: being a pilot and prior Air Force. I was glad

789
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: that you did one on this topic. It's not a correction.

790
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: You guys did a good job, but you miss what

791
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 2: I think is the best part. The numbers. The NATO

792
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 2: alphabet is kind of a misnomber because it actually also

793
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 2: includes number zero through nine, but you can't really make

794
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 2: a word starting from a number, so it's purely pronunciation.

795
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 2: Most numbers are the same, with a notable exception of niner.

796
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: We use niner instead of nine because over garbled radio

797
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 2: it sounds like five, but mainly because NATO countries speak

798
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 2: German nine no. In German, three is pronounced tree to

799
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: not be confused with the antiquated prefix three s r

800
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 2: I four is two syllable syllables rhymes with lower, so

801
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 2: you would say four sounds kind of funny to differentiate

802
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: it from you know, fo r and five is five

803
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,959
Speaker 2: to keep the word fire distinct in some dialects. Huh,

804
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 2: this is good stuff. I feel dumb that we miss that.

805
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 2: That's all interesting, but you're probably thinking, does anyone actually

806
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: say it like that? It depends. Niner is pretty universal.

807
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 2: Plus we think it makes it sound cool, which it does.

808
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: Of course. The rest are much less common, but ending

809
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 2: where you are in the world and what dialects are involved,

810
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 2: they're useful from time to time. Signed Tailwinds Decker.

811
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: That's awesome and also what a great nickname too. I

812
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: hope that's your nickname and your parents didn't actually name

813
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 1: you tail Wings.

814
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 2: Well, no, no, no, Decker is the name. Tailwinds was the

815
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: Oh the sign?

816
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, the cheers are the one love exactly. So Decker's

817
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 1: the first name.

818
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know it just a decker. Decker may

819
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: be a call sign.

820
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: Actually, right, Well I love that. Thanks a lot, Decker,

821
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: much appreciated. I say niner whenever the occasion arises, you know,

822
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: I like that.

823
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 2: You know, our our good friend, Joe Randazzo, formerly of

824
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: The Onion and at Midnight Fame, our our comedy writer friend.

825
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: He signs his emails yours with a comma Joe Joe Endezer.

826
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: That's great.

827
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 2: That's very I think yours is. It's very very warn

828
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: as is Joe.

829
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 1: Sure it's perfect for him.

830
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: And as always high to the kids. Yeah, Joe's kids,

831
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: sou Yeah.

832
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: The Randazzos, they're listening family, the Flying Randazzos. They're trepeze artists.

833
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: Family just waiting to happen.

834
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: They should be.

835
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: Well, we'll see a lot's gonna happen by the end

836
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: of the century apparently, so who knows.

837
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: That's right.

838
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: Well, if you want to get in touch with this

839
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: like Decker did and confuse me with your sign off,

840
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: I'd appreciate it. So with Chuck too, he loves that

841
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: kind of thing. You can wrap it up, spend it

842
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: on the bottom, and send it off to Stuff podcast

843
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot com.

844
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: You Know, Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

845
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

846
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.