WEBVTT - Maya’s Slight Change of Plans, Revisited 0:00:14.996 --> 0:00:15.436 Pushkin. 0:00:20.436 --> 0:00:23.876 Hey, everyone, maya here. I hope you're settling into the 0:00:23.996 --> 0:00:29.396 change of seasons. October is Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Month, 0:00:29.836 --> 0:00:32.556 and it has me reflecting on an experience that my 0:00:32.636 --> 0:00:36.876 husband and I, along with our gestational surrogate Hailey, navigated 0:00:36.916 --> 0:00:40.156 a few years ago. Many of you know about my 0:00:40.316 --> 0:00:42.676 slight change of plans when I hurt my hand and 0:00:42.716 --> 0:00:45.516 had to give up my dream of becoming a concert violinist. 0:00:46.156 --> 0:00:49.476 This is another important part of my story, and I 0:00:49.556 --> 0:00:52.836 hope that sharing my reflections might bring some comfort if 0:00:52.876 --> 0:00:56.636 you've experienced loss of any kind. I appreciate your listening. 0:01:08.796 --> 0:01:11.676 Dad jokes that when I was like a five year 0:01:11.716 --> 0:01:14.676 old or whatnot, he'd come down to the basement and 0:01:14.716 --> 0:01:16.556 I'd be with my little kitchen set. I'd be on 0:01:16.596 --> 0:01:22.676 this pretend phone having conversations with my fictitious neighbors about 0:01:22.716 --> 0:01:26.556 my rebellious children. I'd be like, Oh, you wouldn't believe it, Karen, 0:01:27.116 --> 0:01:30.156 Little Bobby is driving me crazy. First of all, it 0:01:30.156 --> 0:01:34.036 says a lot about my assimilation that my child's name 0:01:34.036 --> 0:01:37.076 was Bobby, despite the fact I'm Indian and Rob you 0:01:37.196 --> 0:01:40.156 might have been more appropriate. But I don't think there's 0:01:40.276 --> 0:01:45.196 ever been anything more that mattered to me than eventually 0:01:45.276 --> 0:01:48.676 becoming a parent. I mean, it's just it's always been 0:01:48.676 --> 0:01:53.836 a guiding force. That's me, Maya Shunker. As you can 0:01:53.876 --> 0:01:57.876 probably tell, we're mixing things up on today's episode. Instead 0:01:57.876 --> 0:02:01.396 of coming to you as the host, Maya Shunker, cognitive scientist, 0:02:02.036 --> 0:02:06.316 I'm coming to you as just me Maya. Recently, I 0:02:06.396 --> 0:02:08.916 was on my way to finally becoming a mom, which 0:02:08.916 --> 0:02:12.036 had in years in the making. When my husband Jimmy, 0:02:12.076 --> 0:02:14.876 and I learned I can't healthily carry a baby. We 0:02:14.996 --> 0:02:19.996 explored gestational surrogacy, having someone else carry our baby. This 0:02:20.076 --> 0:02:23.796 has involved fertility treatments, freezing our embryos, and finding a 0:02:23.836 --> 0:02:30.076 surrogate match. Things were finally coming together these past few 0:02:30.116 --> 0:02:33.796 months until we were thrown our own change of plans. 0:02:36.436 --> 0:02:39.516 I never intended to share such a deeply personal story, 0:02:40.236 --> 0:02:42.476 but then I realized that's kind of what this show 0:02:42.556 --> 0:02:45.756 is all about. My guests come here to process their 0:02:45.796 --> 0:02:49.516 experiences with change out loud, and I realized I wanted 0:02:49.516 --> 0:02:52.356 to do the same. So two days after I got 0:02:52.396 --> 0:02:56.516 some terrible news, I asked my producer and friend Tyler Green, 0:02:57.036 --> 0:03:04.396 to turn on the mics and interview me. This is 0:03:04.436 --> 0:03:07.236 a slight change of plants, a show about who we 0:03:07.276 --> 0:03:09.916 are and who we become in the face of a 0:03:09.956 --> 0:03:23.996 big change. We started our conversation by talking about Jimmy 0:03:24.036 --> 0:03:27.276 and me and our search for a surrogate match when 0:03:27.276 --> 0:03:30.556 we moved out to California. That's really when our journey began. 0:03:30.676 --> 0:03:35.396 And it's very scary, obviously, right. I mean, to trust 0:03:35.476 --> 0:03:39.356 someone so much that you're willing to put your child's 0:03:39.396 --> 0:03:43.356 development and well being in their hands is nothing small, 0:03:43.596 --> 0:03:49.916 you know, So, I mean, the surrogacy matching process is 0:03:51.596 --> 0:03:55.236 so interesting. It feels like you're dating again, Like you're 0:03:55.276 --> 0:04:00.196 looking at all these profiles of women who can potentially 0:04:00.196 --> 0:04:04.436 carry your baby. And unlike a traditional dating profile, which 0:04:04.476 --> 0:04:07.756 is like, you know, I love playing soccer and making dinners, 0:04:07.796 --> 0:04:13.876 they're like, you know, here's my dynocological history, and here's 0:04:14.076 --> 0:04:16.236 the nature of my three berths that I had with. 0:04:16.156 --> 0:04:16.996 My own children. 0:04:17.436 --> 0:04:21.916 It feels totally nuts to be learning some intimate details 0:04:21.956 --> 0:04:25.876 about a person's medical history and to be judging compatibility 0:04:25.996 --> 0:04:30.236 based on based on these factors. It's like, hey, how's 0:04:30.276 --> 0:04:33.516 your uterine lining? Does it respond well to fertility treatments? 0:04:33.636 --> 0:04:33.836 You know? 0:04:33.916 --> 0:04:35.516 Like, that's nuts. 0:04:35.596 --> 0:04:37.476 Usually, as I go about the world, I'm focusing on 0:04:37.476 --> 0:04:40.676 people's personalities and whether I like them and whether they 0:04:40.836 --> 0:04:43.316 like me. And suddenly you're in this world where all 0:04:43.316 --> 0:04:45.956 these bizarre metrics matter more than anything else, which is 0:04:45.996 --> 0:04:48.676 this person's pregnancy history and their ability to conceive. 0:04:49.036 --> 0:04:51.276 You're like, it's not match dot com anymore, but it 0:04:51.316 --> 0:04:52.356 looks almost the same. 0:04:52.636 --> 0:04:53.756 There's all these things exactly. 0:04:54.156 --> 0:04:57.476 But wow, didn't know I needed to know that exactly. 0:04:58.316 --> 0:05:02.436 So we're sifting through all these profiles and we come 0:05:02.476 --> 0:05:12.116 across one. Her name's Haley, sorry, okay, and she just 0:05:12.156 --> 0:05:14.076 looks perfect. 0:05:14.796 --> 0:05:16.716 She looks perfect. 0:05:18.956 --> 0:05:22.356 She's smiling in her photo with Minnie Mouse ears on 0:05:22.516 --> 0:05:25.236 her head. It's a picture with her and her daughter 0:05:25.596 --> 0:05:32.356 in like Disney World. I read her profile. She's got 0:05:32.356 --> 0:05:35.876 three beautiful children of her own. She's a stay at 0:05:35.876 --> 0:05:40.756 home mom. She is incredibly artistic and creative and builds 0:05:40.796 --> 0:05:45.036 amazing things in her home. And she's also a social activist. 0:05:45.356 --> 0:05:47.876 And I still remember when I looked at her profile. 0:05:47.916 --> 0:05:49.996 You know, usually you write a paragraph about yourself at 0:05:50.036 --> 0:05:52.476 the end, to just say you know why you're interested 0:05:52.516 --> 0:05:55.316 in being a surrogate and what draws you to it, 0:05:55.396 --> 0:05:58.476 and you know, this is an opportunity for women to 0:05:58.516 --> 0:06:01.036 say why they think they'd be a great surrogate for you. 0:06:01.116 --> 0:06:05.556 And she said, I feel so self conscious talking positively 0:06:05.596 --> 0:06:09.796 about myself. I've asked my sister instead to share what 0:06:09.876 --> 0:06:12.796 why she thinks, you know, I might make a great surrogate. 0:06:12.956 --> 0:06:17.796 And it was such a beautiful description of Haley, you know, 0:06:18.796 --> 0:06:22.836 generous in such a deep way, so loving, so caring, 0:06:23.996 --> 0:06:26.276 and so loyal. And you know, at the time, I 0:06:26.276 --> 0:06:31.356 didn't know how much that loyalty trait would matter, but 0:06:31.436 --> 0:06:33.316 it did, and so I still remember it was the 0:06:33.356 --> 0:06:35.356 middle of my work day and I go into a 0:06:35.396 --> 0:06:38.436 conference room and we meet Haley over video, and it 0:06:38.556 --> 0:06:41.436 was it was like love at first sight, you know, 0:06:41.596 --> 0:06:44.796 that's the best way to describe it. I think we 0:06:44.836 --> 0:06:46.796 all felt so bonded to each other. 0:06:48.876 --> 0:06:49.796 I'd always seen it as. 0:06:49.756 --> 0:06:52.476 Such a liability, like why can't I carry this baby? 0:06:52.516 --> 0:06:55.436 Why can't I carry this baby? And when I met 0:06:55.436 --> 0:07:01.836 Haley for the first time ever, I thought, It's okay. 0:07:02.036 --> 0:07:05.876 Knowing her and having it be her will make this 0:07:06.756 --> 0:07:10.316 We'll make this just as good, even better, because I 0:07:10.316 --> 0:07:12.196 had the opportunity to get to know someone like her 0:07:12.236 --> 0:07:15.556 and I had never felt that way before. You know, 0:07:15.716 --> 0:07:18.116 usually after a video call like that, you give both 0:07:18.156 --> 0:07:20.996 sides some time to figure out whether they think it's right. 0:07:21.516 --> 0:07:23.356 I think we just wrote to each other within like a. 0:07:23.316 --> 0:07:25.396 Minute, like we're in, the other sides like we're in, 0:07:25.476 --> 0:07:27.996 and so we might have been the fastest match that 0:07:28.036 --> 0:07:28.716 ever happened. 0:07:29.316 --> 0:07:33.836 I love that. So what happens next? 0:07:34.876 --> 0:07:38.476 We plan to do our embryo transfer in February of 0:07:38.836 --> 0:07:44.436 twenty twenty, so she comes out here. And there's also 0:07:44.596 --> 0:07:48.156 there's also this like grading system with embryos. They look 0:07:48.196 --> 0:07:50.476 at the embryos under a microscope, and so it's like, oh, 0:07:50.516 --> 0:07:52.396 this one's a six double A and this one's a 0:07:52.396 --> 0:07:56.036 two DD, And you're like, is this predictive of anything? 0:07:56.196 --> 0:07:58.556 Like I'm walking down the street being like, is that 0:07:58.596 --> 0:08:01.676 person a six double A? Like, what's Obama? 0:08:02.556 --> 0:08:05.396 Six? Triple A? For sure? Probably a seven? Just a seven? 0:08:05.996 --> 0:08:09.036 What's Beyonce? I need to know what Beyonce is? Like 0:08:09.436 --> 0:08:12.556 if Beyonce was a like three CB or like a 0:08:12.636 --> 0:08:15.596 two d D, that gives hope to embryos everywhere. Okay, 0:08:16.476 --> 0:08:19.676 So anyway, we were we chose our best looking embryo 0:08:19.716 --> 0:08:22.116 and they were all genetically tested, so we had you know, 0:08:22.116 --> 0:08:23.836 we knew that they were chromosomally normal. 0:08:24.436 --> 0:08:25.996 So we choose choose our best one. 0:08:25.996 --> 0:08:30.556 And I remember sitting in the ultrasound room that day 0:08:30.596 --> 0:08:35.636 because you know, Kaylee was She's so inclusive throughout the process. 0:08:35.716 --> 0:08:37.476 You know, I was like, do you prefer we're out 0:08:37.476 --> 0:08:38.916 of the room in the room, like at the end 0:08:38.956 --> 0:08:41.436 of the day, this is her body, and she said, 0:08:41.436 --> 0:08:43.396 I can't imagine not having you guys in the room. 0:08:44.036 --> 0:08:48.076 So we're in the room. The lights go off and 0:08:48.156 --> 0:08:48.836 I see. 0:08:48.636 --> 0:08:54.076 Them take our little girl embryo and implant her, and 0:08:54.156 --> 0:08:59.196 I I was overwhelmed by emotion and like, I didn't 0:08:59.196 --> 0:09:01.356 even I don't think of myself as that kind of person, 0:09:01.556 --> 0:09:05.476 like Jimmy's the one who cries at Disney movies, up 0:09:05.556 --> 0:09:08.596 Mulan the Lion King. Like I might get a little, 0:09:08.756 --> 0:09:11.636 you know, heary eyed. But I was so surprised, and 0:09:11.676 --> 0:09:15.076 I think it was we can cry for lots of reasons, 0:09:15.076 --> 0:09:17.796 but I think it was it was a combination of 0:09:17.836 --> 0:09:21.796 so many factors. I think one was profound relief that 0:09:21.916 --> 0:09:24.476 this moment was finally happening. You know, it had been 0:09:25.476 --> 0:09:28.876 years in the making, to just see it happening finally 0:09:28.956 --> 0:09:32.076 with like a real human Haley sitting there like that 0:09:32.196 --> 0:09:36.316 was overwhelming for me. And then I also just visualized her. 0:09:36.356 --> 0:09:38.396 I was like, oh, well, she have thick, curly hair 0:09:38.516 --> 0:09:40.516 like me. You know, you just have these images. I 0:09:40.556 --> 0:09:42.276 just imagine her with like you know, I kind of 0:09:42.316 --> 0:09:45.276 had just a bunch of curls shooting off my head 0:09:45.316 --> 0:09:47.356 when I was a kid, and they had There was 0:09:47.436 --> 0:09:50.036 no order, it was just randomness everywhere. I was like, 0:09:50.076 --> 0:09:53.196 I wonder, she'll have my you know, Shirley Temple spiral curls, 0:09:54.916 --> 0:09:56.956 but with like an ethnic twist because they're you know, 0:09:57.156 --> 0:09:58.396 kind of it's I have textured hair. 0:09:58.436 --> 0:09:59.916 I have to see those pictures. By the way, I'm 0:09:59.916 --> 0:10:00.556 not letting that go. 0:10:01.156 --> 0:10:04.996 I will send them to you and so. And I 0:10:05.036 --> 0:10:09.516 just remember holding Jimmy's hands so tightly and it was 0:10:09.556 --> 0:10:12.076 a beautiful moment. And you know, we left and obviously 0:10:12.076 --> 0:10:15.716 we have nerves and whatnot. And you know the way 0:10:15.756 --> 0:10:18.356 that it works, you're supposed to wait until ten days 0:10:18.396 --> 0:10:21.196 after to do the formal blood work. That Haley wasn't 0:10:21.196 --> 0:10:23.796 going to wait, so she was going to the store 0:10:24.156 --> 0:10:27.716 buying pregnancy tests. She proceeds to send us images of 0:10:27.796 --> 0:10:30.316 all the pregnancy tests she's been taking over the preceding 0:10:30.396 --> 0:10:33.956 days of the line darkening and darkening and darkening, and 0:10:34.716 --> 0:10:38.196 it's very positive. And she gets her blood test done 0:10:38.356 --> 0:10:40.476 and we're having a. 0:10:40.476 --> 0:10:41.556 Baby girl, you know. 0:10:42.756 --> 0:10:46.436 And so we're over the moon and we sign in 0:10:47.356 --> 0:10:50.996 buy a video to that first ulture sound and we 0:10:51.036 --> 0:10:54.356 see her little heart beating and in the same way 0:10:54.396 --> 0:10:56.956 that Haley was perfect to us, that little embryo seemed 0:10:57.356 --> 0:11:00.796 freaking perfect to us, too, so cute and like the 0:11:00.916 --> 0:11:04.996 nurse said to Haley and us, your little gal's measuring perfectly. 0:11:05.076 --> 0:11:08.276 Her heart's beating at a perfect rate. We're good and 0:11:08.356 --> 0:11:13.476 so yeah, we felt so relieved, you know. And we 0:11:13.556 --> 0:11:17.876 go home and it's so funny how these surrogacy pregnancies work. 0:11:18.756 --> 0:11:20.316 You know, you want to be able to control things, 0:11:20.356 --> 0:11:22.916 so you end up focusing on really small things like 0:11:23.396 --> 0:11:26.316 is her a multi vitamin? Like the best version of 0:11:26.316 --> 0:11:29.516 the multi vitamin, you know, Like how much folic acid 0:11:29.676 --> 0:11:31.596 is she getting? You know, Like you just start asking 0:11:31.636 --> 0:11:35.396 yourself all these really small things. It's a it's like 0:11:35.436 --> 0:11:37.956 that Iceberg analogy. You just see the tips. So you 0:11:38.036 --> 0:11:39.396 focus on all those things that you think are in 0:11:39.436 --> 0:11:41.916 your control, but underneath the surface there's a ton of 0:11:41.916 --> 0:11:45.716 stuff that's totally not present to you and is totally 0:11:45.716 --> 0:11:48.396 out of your control. And it's about nine thirty at night, 0:11:48.556 --> 0:11:50.916 and all of a sudden, we get a text from 0:11:50.956 --> 0:11:55.476 Haley and she says, are you guys up? And we 0:11:55.516 --> 0:11:58.516 immediately know something's wrong, because, like, why is she texting 0:11:58.596 --> 0:12:01.916 us at eleven thirty her time asking you for up? 0:12:02.916 --> 0:12:06.916 We call her and she says, I just started bleeding 0:12:06.956 --> 0:12:10.756 profusely and I think I maybe miscarrying and I'm not 0:12:10.796 --> 0:12:14.876 sure what's happening. And my heart just sank and I 0:12:14.956 --> 0:12:17.316 was like, oh my god, how is this possible. We 0:12:17.476 --> 0:12:20.596 just saw the baby a few hours ago on the ultrasound, 0:12:20.596 --> 0:12:24.236 you know, looking super healthy and happy, and Hayley was 0:12:24.236 --> 0:12:26.836 healthy and happy. Like it just felt like a tragedy, 0:12:26.956 --> 0:12:29.396 you know, And to go from the highest of highs 0:12:29.396 --> 0:12:32.196 to the lowest of lows within a six hour period, 0:12:32.836 --> 0:12:35.796 it just felt cruel. Sure enough, she goes in the 0:12:35.836 --> 0:12:41.236 next morning for an ultrasound and there's nothing there, you know, 0:12:43.356 --> 0:12:45.036 like there was something there the day before, but there's 0:12:45.076 --> 0:12:45.876 nothing there today. 0:12:46.716 --> 0:12:47.676 That's what they told us. 0:12:48.076 --> 0:12:52.956 So she had miscarried and I will tell you the 0:12:53.036 --> 0:12:59.476 hardest part about a surrogacy journey is that there's a 0:12:59.516 --> 0:13:03.796 third person grieving along with you, and that's so excruciating. 0:13:03.836 --> 0:13:06.316 It's like, Jimmy and I felt like we could manage 0:13:06.356 --> 0:13:11.556 our own pain, but to see someone who was so 0:13:11.796 --> 0:13:16.156 loving and only wanted to bring us joy suffering and 0:13:16.156 --> 0:13:18.356 in pain and going through the physical trauma of a 0:13:18.396 --> 0:13:22.316 miscarriage like bleeding throughout the entire night and horrible cramping 0:13:22.356 --> 0:13:25.876 and feeling nauseated and dizzy and all the things. Like, 0:13:27.556 --> 0:13:30.396 it's so horrible. It's so horrible to have a third person. 0:13:30.436 --> 0:13:34.676 And you know, in our minds, we're thinking, because guilt 0:13:34.756 --> 0:13:37.556 is an inevitable feeling on all on all sides, we're 0:13:37.556 --> 0:13:40.676 thinking to ourselves like we're the reason Haley had our 0:13:40.676 --> 0:13:44.436 first miscarriage, you know, That's what we're thinking. And Haley's 0:13:44.436 --> 0:13:46.796 probably thinking why did this happen? 0:13:47.036 --> 0:13:47.716 Like why why? 0:13:47.796 --> 0:13:50.076 Why couldn't I make this work? And we're all having 0:13:50.116 --> 0:13:55.156 these irrational thoughts that are not rooted in real things, 0:13:55.196 --> 0:13:57.116 because you just want to find an explanation. 0:13:57.396 --> 0:13:58.236 You know, you want to. 0:13:59.916 --> 0:14:02.236 You want to blame someone, and the easiest person to 0:14:02.236 --> 0:14:04.836 blame is yourself or like who else am I to 0:14:04.836 --> 0:14:06.756 blame the universe? Like I don't you know, so I 0:14:06.796 --> 0:14:08.316 just wanted to blame myself. 0:14:09.996 --> 0:14:10.596 For everything. 0:14:11.316 --> 0:14:14.756 And so so that happens, And the reason why it 0:14:14.796 --> 0:14:17.876 was so painful, Tyler, is that it happened the day 0:14:17.956 --> 0:14:22.076 before we all entered quarantine in California, so we couldn't 0:14:22.116 --> 0:14:25.916 even grieve with our close friends and family, like the 0:14:26.076 --> 0:14:28.916 very small circle of people we had told about this pregnancy. 0:14:30.436 --> 0:14:33.556 And at this point, where you were you thinking, I'm 0:14:33.596 --> 0:14:36.196 sure you had actually many thoughts at this point, like 0:14:36.796 --> 0:14:40.396 should we work together with Haley again or somebody else? 0:14:41.396 --> 0:14:45.236 It's a great question. We so desperately wanted to work 0:14:45.236 --> 0:14:48.636 with Haley, and we were hoping doctors would tell us 0:14:48.636 --> 0:14:51.156 that we could, that it would make sense to Unfortunately, 0:14:51.636 --> 0:14:54.636 you know, they said, we have no reason to believe 0:14:55.276 --> 0:14:58.036 anything really about this situation, like there's a lot of 0:14:58.076 --> 0:15:01.476 miscarriages at six weeks, and we were really concerned at 0:15:01.476 --> 0:15:03.476 the time, like, well, Haley be down for this. She 0:15:03.596 --> 0:15:07.596 just went through a traumatic experience and one that she 0:15:07.636 --> 0:15:10.756 did not you know, you can sign up for this, 0:15:10.836 --> 0:15:12.796 but like do you really know what that's going to be? Like, 0:15:12.956 --> 0:15:16.156 you know, and so one thing that really touched our 0:15:16.196 --> 0:15:18.716 hearts is when she said, I'm in this with you 0:15:18.796 --> 0:15:23.916 until the end. I will do this until you become parents. 0:15:24.756 --> 0:15:27.316 And just to catch us up on the timeline, so 0:15:27.436 --> 0:15:31.516 this is this is again March of twenty twenty exactly. 0:15:31.596 --> 0:15:34.236 And then at some point you make a decision to 0:15:34.276 --> 0:15:36.116 try again or you're able to try again. 0:15:37.276 --> 0:15:42.036 Yeah, so we all get vaccinated, but we try again, 0:15:42.276 --> 0:15:44.276 and so she comes out here and we go through 0:15:44.316 --> 0:15:48.996 the whole process again. So this is August of twenty 0:15:49.036 --> 0:15:53.156 twenty one. Okay, so it's August twenty twenty one. Haley 0:15:53.196 --> 0:15:55.156 flies out here and we just had a wonderful time 0:15:55.156 --> 0:15:58.156 because it was in some ways it was as though 0:15:58.196 --> 0:16:00.436 no time has passed, right because we felt so close 0:16:00.476 --> 0:16:01.836 to her. But in other ways it was as though 0:16:01.916 --> 0:16:04.916 so much time had passed, because you could see changes 0:16:04.916 --> 0:16:08.036 in the depth of our conversation and just how comfortable 0:16:08.156 --> 0:16:09.796 we felt with each other. 0:16:11.236 --> 0:16:12.636 And so we go into the room and. 0:16:14.076 --> 0:16:16.476 I can already feel some of the light you know, 0:16:16.556 --> 0:16:20.316 PTSD feelings kicking in because this time when we're doing 0:16:20.316 --> 0:16:23.356 the ultrasound, I don't cry to do the transfer, I mean, 0:16:23.516 --> 0:16:27.636 you know, the embryo transfer. I'm just I'm holding my 0:16:27.676 --> 0:16:30.076 breath more than I did the first time. Like I 0:16:30.076 --> 0:16:34.356 feel a little anxious, you know, and you know everyone's like, 0:16:34.436 --> 0:16:36.436 just stay positive, stay positive, stay positive. 0:16:36.476 --> 0:16:38.436 So I so we stayed positive. 0:16:38.676 --> 0:16:43.196 And within two weeks we got those darkening line pregnancy tests. 0:16:45.116 --> 0:16:47.156 I told her that, you know her, her hormone levels 0:16:47.156 --> 0:16:49.156 were super high this time. So I was like, Haley, 0:16:49.156 --> 0:16:52.236 you're pregnant AF. So that was our that was our 0:16:52.236 --> 0:16:59.076 WhatsApp group name, Haley's Pregnant AF. We'll be right back 0:16:59.196 --> 0:17:12.556 to the slight change of plans. When Jimmy and I 0:17:12.636 --> 0:17:15.596 found out that Haley was pregnant again, we were ecstatic. 0:17:16.196 --> 0:17:19.116 We had transferred one embryo and we felt so fortunate 0:17:19.156 --> 0:17:21.996 it had worked. Jimmy and I would go for long 0:17:22.036 --> 0:17:24.916 walks together and start imagining what life would be like 0:17:25.076 --> 0:17:31.396 with our little Chinese Indian baby, and we named her 0:17:31.756 --> 0:17:33.676 like Karina, that's going to be our name. So as 0:17:33.716 --> 0:17:39.876 pregnant AF with Karina shunker Lee. And she's pregnant, and 0:17:42.276 --> 0:17:45.156 like clockwork, on exactly the same day, Haley gets morning 0:17:45.196 --> 0:17:49.156 sickness as she did the first pregnancy. Everything's going super well, 0:17:49.156 --> 0:17:51.196 her levels are looking super strong. 0:17:51.916 --> 0:17:52.076 And. 0:17:54.716 --> 0:17:57.196 I just start I just start feeling anxious as the 0:17:57.236 --> 0:18:01.196 six week mark approaches, because it feels very irrational and 0:18:01.316 --> 0:18:03.156 like there's no reason at all to believe that if 0:18:03.156 --> 0:18:05.676 there's a miscarriage, it would happen, you know, at the 0:18:05.716 --> 0:18:07.956 six week mark, right like it could happen at seven 0:18:07.996 --> 0:18:11.076 and a half weeks, it could happen, you know, twenty weeks. 0:18:11.116 --> 0:18:13.876 You just don't know in this process. So I felt 0:18:13.876 --> 0:18:16.676 like I was getting irrationally anxious. So I kept trying 0:18:16.716 --> 0:18:18.716 to talk myself off, talk myself off the ledge and 0:18:18.796 --> 0:18:20.516 be like, there's no reason to believe this would happen. 0:18:22.956 --> 0:18:26.356 I'd set up an email address for Karina, and I'd 0:18:26.356 --> 0:18:28.676 been sending her emails along the way about the pregnancy, 0:18:28.716 --> 0:18:31.636 about Haley. It's like, hey, you know, hey little Karina, 0:18:31.996 --> 0:18:34.996 it's mom. You know, here's an update. And I remember 0:18:34.996 --> 0:18:36.836 I wrote to her the night before. I said, Hey, 0:18:38.676 --> 0:18:43.116 tomorrow is a really big milestone for us, because we 0:18:43.156 --> 0:18:46.236 get through it. Like it's one day more, you know, 0:18:46.356 --> 0:18:48.716 that next day it's one day more than the last pregnancy, 0:18:49.036 --> 0:18:53.716 and I just feel like I'll feel some relief. It's 0:18:53.756 --> 0:18:58.556 Tuesday morning. I wake up and I have relief because 0:18:58.556 --> 0:19:01.196 I look at my phone, and I'm like, there's no 0:19:01.276 --> 0:19:06.236 message from her saying that she bled overnight. And then 0:19:06.276 --> 0:19:07.876 she texts us saying, you know, I was a little 0:19:07.876 --> 0:19:10.996 scared this morning because I woke up not feeling morning sickness. 0:19:11.796 --> 0:19:13.556 She had had other days like that, so it wasn't 0:19:13.556 --> 0:19:18.676 immediately alarming. And then at ten thirty am, I get 0:19:18.676 --> 0:19:21.596 a message from her and she says, I just had 0:19:21.636 --> 0:19:24.676 a gush of blood and my heart sank. 0:19:24.716 --> 0:19:27.156 I was like, you have got to be kidding me. 0:19:28.196 --> 0:19:31.516 How is this happening again, like on exactly the same 0:19:31.596 --> 0:19:34.196 day as last time, Like it just it didn't make 0:19:34.556 --> 0:19:36.796 any sense, And so we called the doctor and they 0:19:37.796 --> 0:19:40.196 they're like, Okay, it could be a miscarriage. However, it 0:19:40.196 --> 0:19:42.276 could be another thing. It could be a hematoma. Right, 0:19:42.436 --> 0:19:44.476 It could be that there is some blood pooling in 0:19:44.476 --> 0:19:46.956 that area and it just needs to get out. Why 0:19:46.996 --> 0:19:49.076 don't we have her goat get an ultrasound? And so 0:19:49.836 --> 0:19:52.156 even though she's like actively bleeding, she goes to get 0:19:52.196 --> 0:19:58.076 this ultrasound and we're expecting the worst. I mean, I'm 0:19:58.116 --> 0:20:02.276 an optimist, so of course, until you tell me like, no, 0:20:02.556 --> 0:20:04.436 there's nothing there, I'm always going to hope. I'm always 0:20:04.436 --> 0:20:06.276 going to hold on to that shred. I think Jimmy 0:20:06.316 --> 0:20:08.116 at this point had just given up. He was like, Maya, 0:20:08.596 --> 0:20:13.396 all hope is lost. And this incredibly kind doctor is 0:20:13.436 --> 0:20:16.996 on the call and he's doing the ultrasound. He's like, 0:20:17.516 --> 0:20:20.516 there's your baby, and her heart beat's perfect, it's one 0:20:20.596 --> 0:20:23.756 hundred and sixty. She's measuring exactly as she should at 0:20:23.796 --> 0:20:27.636 six weeks, and oh my god, there is that hematoma, 0:20:27.756 --> 0:20:30.716 Like there is this blood pool, and so that does 0:20:30.796 --> 0:20:34.036 explain the bleeding. Like, you guys are good. And I 0:20:34.156 --> 0:20:38.276 was just sobbing, like the relief that I felt, Oh 0:20:38.316 --> 0:20:41.836 my gosh, there's an explanation and our baby is looking 0:20:41.996 --> 0:20:44.356 great and we're going to have this child. And then 0:20:45.196 --> 0:20:48.596 he goes over the area again and he goes, oh 0:20:48.636 --> 0:20:52.036 my god, there's another one. You guys are having twins, 0:20:54.276 --> 0:20:58.196 and that one's also perfect. That one has a beautiful 0:20:58.196 --> 0:21:03.716 heartbeat and is measuring great. You guys are having twins. 0:21:04.556 --> 0:21:08.036 And Hailey was so happy, and I remember in that 0:21:08.116 --> 0:21:10.636 moment I said to her, I said, look, I'm grateful 0:21:10.796 --> 0:21:13.556 for one or two. I don't I didn't need to. 0:21:13.876 --> 0:21:17.076 I just just wanted one, you know. But what matters 0:21:17.076 --> 0:21:19.916 to me most is that it's with you. And so 0:21:19.916 --> 0:21:21.556 what I just kept saying, I was like, I wanted 0:21:21.556 --> 0:21:23.156 this to be with Haley. I wanted this to be 0:21:23.236 --> 0:21:24.876 with Haley, and it's with you, and we get to 0:21:24.916 --> 0:21:29.316 do this journey with you. And Jimmy and I take 0:21:29.316 --> 0:21:30.756 a walk at this point of the day. We're like, 0:21:30.796 --> 0:21:33.316 let's just get some fresh air. And now we're planning 0:21:33.316 --> 0:21:35.796 our life with twins. We're thinking to ourselves, if you 0:21:35.916 --> 0:21:38.916 need to buy a home, there should be like many bedrooms, 0:21:39.076 --> 0:21:41.716 and how are we gonna care for twins? And we 0:21:41.796 --> 0:21:43.796 start thinking about a second. You know, Haley had said, 0:21:43.796 --> 0:21:45.636 I guess it's time to start thinking of another name. 0:21:45.756 --> 0:21:47.596 So we're like, what goes well with Karina, you know, 0:21:47.636 --> 0:21:50.516 And we just start brainstorming and we have this walk 0:21:50.516 --> 0:21:53.036 and it's just like we're floating on air, you know it. 0:21:54.076 --> 0:21:56.076 We can't wait to tell the people who we've told 0:21:56.116 --> 0:21:58.596 that she's miscarried to that it's actually the opposite. And 0:21:58.916 --> 0:22:02.596 you're not even just getting one, We're getting two. So 0:22:04.716 --> 0:22:07.596 I go back home and I text Haley and I say, 0:22:08.156 --> 0:22:10.836 you know, I leaded the what to expect act on 0:22:10.876 --> 0:22:13.036 my phone this morning when I got the news about 0:22:13.076 --> 0:22:14.556 the blood because I didn't want to get my hopes 0:22:14.636 --> 0:22:17.076 up and I just wanted it. I wanted to remove 0:22:17.116 --> 0:22:18.756 all evidence of that of my phone and I said 0:22:18.756 --> 0:22:27.276 maybe I should reinstall it. And her response was, guys, 0:22:27.836 --> 0:22:30.556 the thing that I've been bleeding out recently, like, it's 0:22:30.596 --> 0:22:37.556 not it's not blood. And she takes a picture of 0:22:37.596 --> 0:22:40.716 it and we send it to our doctor and our 0:22:40.716 --> 0:22:43.716 doctor calls us. We're like, could this be anything? Could 0:22:43.716 --> 0:22:44.236 this be? 0:22:44.596 --> 0:22:44.676 Like? 0:22:45.196 --> 0:22:45.836 What is this? 0:22:48.116 --> 0:22:50.356 You know Jimmy studied biology in college. He's like, my 0:22:51.196 --> 0:22:53.156 MAYI that's his nickname for me. He's like, this is 0:22:53.196 --> 0:22:56.596 not a blood clot. I'm so sorry. And when the 0:22:56.636 --> 0:22:59.116 doctor looked at it, I just remember I heard I 0:22:59.156 --> 0:23:01.876 heard the sound in her voice. She's like, you know 0:23:01.916 --> 0:23:03.916 you could hear it, Like I knew the answer before 0:23:03.916 --> 0:23:06.036