Speaker 1: What's that at the foot of my bed. It's spooky
Speaker 1: and jooky. I'm pretty sure it's dead. It's coming this way.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I'm go, said.
Speaker 1: Tyros Dress. Hey Lou, it's me Roz. I'm doing good
Speaker 1: today and sending out some emails getting us some new
Speaker 1: guests for the show coming up. And I was so
Speaker 1: happy to see how many people loved this conversation with
Speaker 1: Andrea Parrin and so good news for you, there's more
Speaker 1: where that came from. So today will be the part
Speaker 1: two of this conversation, and as always, go to patreon
Speaker 1: dot com slash Roz dres Fales for little extra some
Speaker 1: bonus clips. And this week we'll be talking about the
Speaker 1: paranormal activity that happened on the set of the movie
Speaker 1: The Conjuring, and so I'll talk about what I know
Speaker 1: of some of the people involved in the film that
Speaker 1: had stories to tell. I did speak to my friend
Speaker 1: who was in the movie The Conjuring, and she pretty
Speaker 1: much just said nothing happened to her, but that was
Speaker 1: her experience. But other people said other things happened. So
Speaker 1: you can hear about that, and you can hear about
Speaker 1: Andrea's experiences when the movie was being made in a
Speaker 1: paranormal sense her spooky spooky encounters while the movie was
Speaker 1: being made. So Patreon dot com slash rosdres Falas and
Speaker 1: I want to do a listener episode, so please send
Speaker 1: me your listeners stories to ghosted by Roz at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com with the subject line listener episode and send
Speaker 1: them in quick. Okay, here we go with part two
Speaker 1: with Andrea Baron on with the show.
Speaker 2: And what I saw. What I saw happen not only
Speaker 2: solidified my faith in God as I prayed for my
Speaker 2: mother's life, but it also taught me that there is pure,
Speaker 2: unadulterated evil in the world. And it is with that
Speaker 2: knowledge that I deliberately choose to live in the light.
Speaker 2: M hmm, evil doesn't it doesn't, dare my mother? My
Speaker 2: mother was a hacked and some would say possessed, and
Speaker 2: perhaps if she was technically it was for a very
Speaker 2: brief time. But my mother was attacked at that table
Speaker 2: because a medium who obviously didn't know what she was doing,
Speaker 2: threw open wide the doors to the nether world and
Speaker 2: conjured the spirits and invited everything in to an already
Speaker 2: supremely haunted house. So to determine who the actual culprit
Speaker 2: was that is spiritual malpractice, and whatever it was that
Speaker 2: came into my mother spoke in a language that does
Speaker 2: not exist on this planet and likely never did. My
Speaker 2: mother was screaming and writhing in pain. Her body wadded
Speaker 2: up into a ball on the seat in the chair
Speaker 2: in which she was seated. I mean literally ros to
Speaker 2: the extent you would expect to hear her bones breaking.
Speaker 2: And she threw her head back and howled like a banshee,
Speaker 2: and then her chair levitated, and in a fraction of
Speaker 2: a second she was tossed in the chair from the
Speaker 2: middle of our dining room a good twenty feet away,
Speaker 2: into the middle of our parlor. And when her head
Speaker 2: struck the floor, everyone who witnessed that was quite certain
Speaker 2: that they had just watched her die.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So you want to talk about fucking childhood trauma? There
Speaker 2: it is there, It is right there.
Speaker 1: I mean, wow, wow, wow.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I don't mean to swear on your air, but uh.
Speaker 1: Oh, you can say whatever the fuck you want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, good, thank you. It's really it's an excellent word.
Speaker 2: I use it for punctuation regularly.
Speaker 1: So but I since you mentioned this, I just have
Speaker 1: to ask, I mean they were they were filming this.
Speaker 1: I mean is that they had somewhere.
Speaker 2: They had photographers taking still photographs of this. Everything. The
Speaker 2: audio came out nothing but white noise. None of the
Speaker 2: photographs came out with any images on them at all.
Speaker 2: They were all black and the two very expensive state
Speaker 2: of the art cameras that had been set up on
Speaker 2: tripods in the basement. When missus Warren, well, all hell
Speaker 2: broke loose in the house and my father tried to
Speaker 2: rush to my mother's side, Ed Warren grabbed him by
Speaker 2: the arm. My father turned around and punched him right
Speaker 2: in the face, took him to the floor, using some
Speaker 2: extremely colorful language, banished everyone from the house. Lorraine Warren
Speaker 2: panicked the medium had collapsed and gone unconscious on the table.
Speaker 2: The priest was standing in the corner of the room shaking,
Speaker 2: literally quaking in fear, and Lorraine sent the photographers down
Speaker 2: to gather up their cameras from the cellar, and they
Speaker 2: came back up about one minute later, sobbing, because their
Speaker 2: cameras were in thousands of pieces all over the cellar,
Speaker 2: as if someone had folded up the tripod. And you
Speaker 2: know in the movie signs where the pastor says, swing away.
Speaker 2: It was like, that's what had happened to those cameras.
Speaker 2: There was nothing salvageable, and they ran out of the house.
Speaker 2: Everybody ran out of the house. They lifted the medium
Speaker 2: up off the table and kind of semi carried her
Speaker 2: out with missus Warren, and the priest ed Warren's face was,
Speaker 2: you know, his nose was bleeding all over the place.
Speaker 2: It was a nightmare. I mean it was in the
Speaker 2: truest sense of the word. It was awful. And they
Speaker 2: came back again just before Halloween in nineteen seventy four,
Speaker 2: and the reason that they did was because apparently they
Speaker 2: saw that my father's car was not there. I don't
Speaker 2: think they would have come to the house if they
Speaker 2: had seen that he was home. But they came to
Speaker 2: the door, and I am certain that it was out
Speaker 2: of curiosity to see if my mother had survived that ordeal,
Speaker 2: because she was unconscious when they left, and they didn't
Speaker 2: know if she had lived or died.
Speaker 1: And there was no communication with them after that, No.
Speaker 2: Nope, there wasn't. And so they showed up at the
Speaker 2: door and my mother opened the kitchen door, and you know,
Speaker 2: she said, what do you want? Did you bring my
Speaker 2: notebook back? Because she had asked repeatedly to have her
Speaker 2: notebook back, and Missus Warren said, no, just here to
Speaker 2: check on you. And my mother just closed the door,
Speaker 2: she said, we're done here. She just closed the door.
Speaker 2: So you understand what I'm saying, Ross when I say
Speaker 2: that the conjuring bears no actual resemblance to the real story,
Speaker 2: because there are elements of this story that, you know,
Speaker 2: don't necessarily reflect well on and Loraine Warren. And you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think that they I personally do not think
Speaker 2: that they did anything. You know, they Missus Warren even
Speaker 2: admitted that in public that they were in over their
Speaker 2: heads when they crossed the threshold of that farmhouse. They
Speaker 2: did not know what they were walking into there. And
Speaker 2: I think that they were to the extent that they
Speaker 2: were able trying to help us. I just I don't
Speaker 2: think that they understood what they were dealing with, and
Speaker 2: so in us, in certain respect, they made matters worse
Speaker 2: because her presence certainly activated you know, we had gone
Speaker 2: through a period prior to their arrival where things were
Speaker 2: relatively quiet, you know, not dormant, but certainly quieter, and
Speaker 2: from you know, the night that she showed up, it
Speaker 2: got very active. It was almost like her energy released something.
Speaker 2: And she said to my mother the first night, she said, well,
Speaker 2: you know, we knew about this back in September, but
Speaker 2: we didn't come until now because this is the time
Speaker 2: when the veil is thinnest. And my mother's like, what
Speaker 2: veil are you talking about? And she said, well, you know,
Speaker 2: the veil between you know, life in the afterlife. And
Speaker 2: my mother just looked at her and shook her head
Speaker 2: and she said, there's no veil here. You could have
Speaker 2: from any time day or night, any time of year
Speaker 2: and had the same experience. You know, there's there's no
Speaker 2: veil here. You know, one exists at all. There's you know,
Speaker 2: there's no scrim between this dimension in the next in
Speaker 2: this house.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, when you think of the word conjuring,
Speaker 1: it almost sounds like that is when the conjuring happened,
Speaker 1: you know, it seems like there was a lot of
Speaker 1: activity and then you.
Speaker 2: More. Yeah, it's when I told them about when I
Speaker 2: told the screenwriters and they read my books, and but
Speaker 2: I had extensive conversations with them as they were crafting
Speaker 2: the screenplay, and when I told them about what actually
Speaker 2: happened at the seance, and then of course they said, well,
Speaker 2: you know, we can't really put that in there, because
Speaker 2: you know, this is about the Warrens, and it, you know,
Speaker 2: does not necessarily reflect well on them. Decisions. Big mistakes
Speaker 2: were made, you know, and I don't think that they
Speaker 2: were deliberate by any means, but they were mistakes, and
Speaker 2: one that almost cost my mother her life. And so
Speaker 2: naturally that material was not going to make it into
Speaker 2: the Conjuring, right, But it was me talking about the
Speaker 2: medium and my use of the phrase conjuring the spirits
Speaker 2: that actually they clipped and used as the name of
Speaker 2: the film.
Speaker 1: Mmmmm yeah, because I mean, in the defense of the Warrens,
Speaker 1: they you know, I think the word trailblazer gets used
Speaker 1: a lot to describe what they did, because they certainly
Speaker 1: got the word out and they certainly educated people.
Speaker 2: But when they're pioneers in the field, for.
Speaker 1: Sure, exactly, But when you're figuring this stuff out, it
Speaker 1: is you're gonna make mistakes. You know, you're gonna you
Speaker 1: gotta experiment a bit, and it's tough when you're talking
Speaker 1: about real people and real harmful situations. So it's just
Speaker 1: a bit more the activity between the time you guys
Speaker 1: moved in and the first visit of Eden Lorraine Warren.
Speaker 1: What was happening? Where do we start? Right?
Speaker 2: God, so much happened that Eden Lorraine Warren don't even
Speaker 2: show up in my books until volume two.
Speaker 1: Are we talking every day? Are we talking five times
Speaker 1: a day? What do you think? I mean, it's hard
Speaker 1: to say, I'm sure, but yeah, content it was.
Speaker 2: It was I would say, pretty chronic, pretty constant, you know,
Speaker 2: some low level stuff, some major manifestations occurred. It was well,
Speaker 2: you know, I wrote the books. The trilogy is written
Speaker 2: in an unusual and a rather challenging way. There were
Speaker 2: so many incidents for Oz that I mean, I begin
Speaker 2: the books in Cumberland before we even moved to the farm,
Speaker 2: so the people can understand the dynamics that were at
Speaker 2: play and can be introduced to my family as a
Speaker 2: perfectly normal family, and then watch every single thing fall
Speaker 2: into place that had to fall precisely into place the
Speaker 2: way that it did for us to be catapulted to
Speaker 2: the farm. It was almost like a convergence of events
Speaker 2: that had to happen exactly the way that they did
Speaker 2: in order for us to end up with that farmhouse,
Speaker 2: as though it was a cosmic conspiracy. But then from
Speaker 2: the point where we've moved to the farm, the books
Speaker 2: are broken up into ten chapters with a multitude of
Speaker 2: sub chapters, and it's written according to the type of
Speaker 2: haunting that occurred, because there were, you know, there were
Speaker 2: so many differfferent ways that they manifested that it really
Speaker 2: it requests that the reader suspend the notion of linear time.
Speaker 2: For instance, there could be one sub chapter about an
Speaker 2: event that happened to Cindy when she was ten, and
Speaker 2: the very next story could be something that happened to
Speaker 2: Cindy when she was sixteen. And you know, a pragmatic
Speaker 2: linear thinker that can't challenge that would say, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I just lost six years. Well, no, you didn't, ask yourself.
Speaker 2: Just pause and reflect for a moment, what is the
Speaker 2: point of correlation and integration between these two events, and
Speaker 2: you know, broad spectrum extrapolate out that this happened to
Speaker 2: this child over and over and over again over the
Speaker 2: course of ten years living in that house. And then
Speaker 2: the end of about halfway through volume three, as we're
Speaker 2: preparing to leave the farm, it all goes, you know,
Speaker 2: completely chronological on you again. But in the midst of it,
Speaker 2: it is a swirling mass of timelessness. And if you
Speaker 2: are able to suspend the notion of linear time and
Speaker 2: suspend disbelief, because there are stories in these books that
Speaker 2: are quite literally unbelievable, Like if I hadn't lived it,
Speaker 2: I can't tell you that I would believe it. So
Speaker 2: if you can do that and then know that at
Speaker 2: the end of the trilogy, it will be like a
Speaker 2: freaking ven diagram in your mind. In your mind's eye,
Speaker 2: you'll see the entire chronology of what transpires and how
Speaker 2: and when. A lot of my readers write to me,
Speaker 2: and they very frequently say the same thing over and
Speaker 2: over again. It's like I lived there with you, like
Speaker 2: I know every single member of your family intimately, well,
Speaker 2: like I experienced everything that you experience, like I'm part
Speaker 2: of your story and it ripped my heart out and
Speaker 2: handed it back to me healed. Now, how can that happen?
Speaker 1: Well, I definitely want people listening to this to go
Speaker 1: check out your books and where are the where's your
Speaker 1: preferred way for people to get your books?
Speaker 2: Oh, they're available on Amazon. That's the quickest and cheapest
Speaker 2: way to get them. I mean, you can download them
Speaker 2: on an e reader for I think twelve dollars for
Speaker 2: the whole series. You know, they're about five hundred pages
Speaker 2: a piece.
Speaker 1: So, oh my god. So when I think when we
Speaker 1: talk about like your family's relationship to this stuff, so
Speaker 1: your dad was skeptical for a while, right, and at
Speaker 1: what point did he come around?
Speaker 2: Well, he was actually having he didn't realize that, you know,
Speaker 2: he was. My father is a thick headed Frenchman, I
Speaker 2: mean really obtuse and difficult at times, truly, and he
Speaker 2: just was like King of denial. He actually it took
Speaker 2: him more than forty years to admit that he was
Speaker 2: terrified that he had moved his family into an environment
Speaker 2: that he had absolutely no control over at all. And
Speaker 2: before he finally admitted what was going on in the house,
Speaker 2: he had several experiences of his own the spirit that
Speaker 2: he thinks it was the spirit that was trying to
Speaker 2: get my mother out of the house and kept manifesting
Speaker 2: and you know, being very covetous of us. The children
Speaker 2: had had a thing for my father and she would, yeah,
Speaker 2: and she would touch him and stroke his back, and
Speaker 2: when he had to go down and fix something in
Speaker 2: the cellar, she was on him like white on rice.
Speaker 2: And he had several experiences with her before he ever
Speaker 2: divulged it to my mother. Number One, he didn't want
Speaker 2: to be wrong, and he had been so belligerent about
Speaker 2: you know, there's no ghosts in this house. You girls,
Speaker 2: you know have a bit imaginations. You know that's a dream,
Speaker 2: it's you know, I mean whatever. He dismissed it out
Speaker 2: of hand, which left us feeling very abandoned as children
Speaker 2: because we knew that mom was having some kind of
Speaker 2: issue and she obviously wasn't sharing it with her little kids,
Speaker 2: and we didn't have a father that we could go
Speaker 2: to with the experiences that we were having, because if
Speaker 2: he didn't believe Mom, he wasn't going to believe us.
Speaker 2: So the first couple of years were really tough, and
Speaker 2: you know, several things happened, major, major manifestations occurred in
Speaker 2: the house, and the last huge one that turned him
Speaker 2: where he couldn't deny it anymore. My mother had had
Speaker 2: an experience and he was laying right beside her, lying
Speaker 2: right there in bed, beside her in what she could
Speaker 2: only describe as a trance like state, like she was
Speaker 2: convinced that he was dead and she was next because
Speaker 2: she could not wake him. And the whole room filled
Speaker 2: with all the spirits of the house, and a number
Speaker 2: of them were pounding lighted torches on the floor. It
Speaker 2: was so loud she had to cover her ears, and
Speaker 2: they were, you know, just staring like blank vacant stairs,
Speaker 2: and even the children of the house were standing around
Speaker 2: the bottom of her bed, and one of the spirits
Speaker 2: emerged from the group and leaned over her and said,
Speaker 2: twas mistress, once afore ye came, and Mistress, here will
Speaker 2: be anon. We'll drive you out with fiery broom. We'll
Speaker 2: drive you mad with death and gloom. And the incantation
Speaker 2: went on and on well the next morning, and the
Speaker 2: clock stopped at five point fifteen am, which it always
Speaker 2: did whenever there was a major manifestation in the house.
Speaker 2: And the next morning my mother's hands were trembling. She
Speaker 2: was trying, you know, just frantically to draw everything that
Speaker 2: she saw in the room that night. It was horrific
Speaker 2: for her, and my father insisted that she see a psychiatrist,
Speaker 2: and she was, you know, absolutely opposed to it. She's
Speaker 2: like I'm not crazy, Roger, you know, I you know,
Speaker 2: don't even don't even intimate that I'm crazy. You know this,
Speaker 2: just because you don't believe in spirits doesn't mean they
Speaker 2: don't belong in you. And your belief in them isn't
Speaker 2: you know, their existence is in contingent upon your belief
Speaker 2: in them. I mean, you know, I mean they really
Speaker 2: went at it, but you know, she finally acquiesced. You know,
Speaker 2: he tried to explain as out of his concern for
Speaker 2: her and that he wanted to hypnotize her. And my
Speaker 2: father learned hypnotism when he was in the Navy, and
Speaker 2: he you know, he didn't use it much, but he
Speaker 2: knew how to do it. And he took her to
Speaker 2: a friend of his who happened to be a psychiatrist
Speaker 2: that he knew from the business world, and hypnotized her
Speaker 2: in his presence so that he would have a witness
Speaker 2: to what happened. And my mother, you know, my father
Speaker 2: will be the first one to tell you, you can't lie
Speaker 2: under hypnosis. You can't. And he brought her all the
Speaker 2: way back to you know, every experience that she had
Speaker 2: at the farm, including the one that had most recently happened,
Speaker 2: and she quoted lying for Lyne word for word the
Speaker 2: incantation that she had chanted at her, and his doubt
Speaker 2: was gone. He knew she was telling him the truth
Speaker 2: and that she was telling him. You know, she had
Speaker 2: told him everything that had happened in the house and
Speaker 2: had told him everything that had happened to us in
Speaker 2: the house, and so there was an emotional disconnect, kind
Speaker 2: of a cognitive dissonance that happened for the first couple
Speaker 2: of years in the family, and frankly, we didn't have
Speaker 2: the same level of trust in our father to have
Speaker 2: our backs because we felt a decided sense of abandonment
Speaker 2: around this issue, like we were on our own, you know,
Speaker 2: the six girls mother and her five daughters were on
Speaker 2: our own. He wasn't going to do anything, or not
Speaker 2: that he really could. But he told me when I
Speaker 2: was writing the books, and cried when he told me.
Speaker 2: He said, Annie, I was scared. I was scared. I
Speaker 2: didn't know how to handle it, and the best way
Speaker 2: to not handle it was to deny it.
Speaker 1: So, you know, what kind of toll is this taking
Speaker 1: on you and your sisters going to school and you know,
Speaker 1: just being kids. You know, was it really did it
Speaker 1: become just a normal thing or did it? You know,
Speaker 1: I know your sister said she was always in fear,
Speaker 1: But how was that for you guys?
Speaker 2: Well, we all dealt with it differently, Roz, every one
Speaker 2: of us dealt with it differently. I became like the
Speaker 2: surrogate parent. I was like, you know, parent number three,
Speaker 2: because I had to step in. My mother was wasting away.
Speaker 2: She was living on coffee and cigarettes. She was constantly agitated,
Speaker 2: in a state of heightened anxiety, always watchful, looking over
Speaker 2: her shoulder. She didn't know what was coming next. She
Speaker 2: didn't know what was going to happen to her kids.
Speaker 2: You know, there were literally life threatening events that happened
Speaker 2: in that house, and she tried everything she could to
Speaker 2: get us out of the sale. She you know, contacted
Speaker 2: our family attorney and had him research, you know, if
Speaker 2: there were any other cases of hauntings that were so
Speaker 2: extreme that, you know, purchase and sales agreement could be
Speaker 2: null and voided for it, and there weren't. There were
Speaker 2: only two cases in Rhode Island in the history of
Speaker 2: the court, and both of them were laughed out of
Speaker 2: the court. You know, the last time that anybody even
Speaker 2: tried it. The judge said, you know, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 2: if I can't see it, I'm not ruling on it,
Speaker 2: you know. And so we just didn't really have a choice.
Speaker 2: And then also it was it was like it was
Speaker 2: like what conspired to get us there likewise conspired to
Speaker 2: keep us there. The economy was tanking, housing prices were plummeting,
Speaker 2: the cartel was founded in the Middle East, and oil
Speaker 2: prices went through the roof. You could only buy gasoline
Speaker 2: every other day, depending on if you had an odd
Speaker 2: even number on your license plate. It was a ridiculously
Speaker 2: difficult time to live through the early seventies. It was rough,
Speaker 2: you know, Plus all of this other you know stuff
Speaker 2: is happening in the house, and you know, the house
Speaker 2: had a bit of a reputation, so naturally when people
Speaker 2: discovered that we had moved into it, they wanted to
Speaker 2: know is anything happening? Is anything happening? Plus, you know,
Speaker 2: we were raised to be honest children, and when we
Speaker 2: made friends, we started sharing things with them, and then
Speaker 2: the rumors started and that virgeoned into something. It got
Speaker 2: so out of hand that I was called into the
Speaker 2: principal's office one day. I think I was in the
Speaker 2: tenth grade in the college Accelerated program, and I was,
Speaker 2: you know, I was a goodie two shoes, pretty much
Speaker 2: straight a student. And I got called to the principal's
Speaker 2: office and threatened with expulsion by the principal, who said,
Speaker 2: if I get one more phone call from one more
Speaker 2: parent whose kid came home and started talking about your ghosts,
Speaker 2: you shut your mouth and stop lying, or you are
Speaker 2: out of here and I'll make sure you don't ever
Speaker 2: get into another school. I mean, he was absolutely horrible
Speaker 2: to me. I mean like physically abused me that day,
Speaker 2: pushed me up against a wall both of his hands
Speaker 2: planted in both of my shoulders and pushed me up
Speaker 2: against a wall and said, you shut your mouth. And
Speaker 2: that was the last of it. I was, you know,
Speaker 2: destined for college. I had big plans. I was going
Speaker 2: to be a professor. I was going to you know,
Speaker 2: I already knew what I wanted to do with my life,
Speaker 2: and and talking about what was happening at our house
Speaker 2: threatened all of that. So I shut up, and I
Speaker 2: told my sisters to do the same thing.
Speaker 1: And your family was there until eighty one, Is that right?
Speaker 2: No? We left in June of nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1: Eighty and so so you move out and you go on.
Speaker 1: I mean, did you at what point were you more
Speaker 1: comfortable talking about all of.
Speaker 2: This twenty oh eight. Really, I never mentioned anything about
Speaker 2: it for ever to anybody. Even my best friend from
Speaker 2: college didn't know that I was still living in a
Speaker 2: haunted house when I was off at college. I mean,
Speaker 2: I just didn't talk about it at all because people
Speaker 2: are judgmental, and you know, if you think it's a
Speaker 2: taboo subject, now, you know, go back fifty years. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was January of nineteen seventy one that we moved
Speaker 2: into that house. That was fifty years ago, and it
Speaker 2: was fifty years in January, and you know, it was
Speaker 2: not something that was discussed in polite company. You know,
Speaker 2: it doesn't surprise me that mister Kenyon didn't want to
Speaker 2: discuss it with my parents, even though we feel certain
Speaker 2: that there was a reason he left the lights on
Speaker 2: every single night lived there with his wife for many years.
Speaker 2: They raised a son there, and I feel certain that
Speaker 2: things happened in that house, and that the reason that
Speaker 2: the lights were on was either to hold them at
Speaker 2: bay or to at least see what was coming at you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So when did the movie? You know, the
Speaker 1: talks of the movie start happening. I mean you, so
Speaker 1: you write the books. Did they approach you because of
Speaker 1: your books or no? It was because of the warrant
Speaker 1: They were going to make stories.
Speaker 2: About the war. Warrens wanted permission to tell our story.
Speaker 2: And I had already started writing the books, but the
Speaker 2: first one wasn't even published yet. So, you know, I
Speaker 2: have a lot of budding, hopeful screenwriters that contact me
Speaker 2: all the time. Can you put me in touch with
Speaker 2: a movie company. I'm like, you know, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers came to me. It wasn't the other way around.
Speaker 2: I didn't go seeking any attention for this. I was
Speaker 2: just starting the books when I got a call from
Speaker 2: a movie producer that had actually called the woman who
Speaker 2: owned the house at the time, and she called me
Speaker 2: and said, there's a movie producer that wants to talk
Speaker 2: to you about, you know, telling your story, and can
Speaker 2: I give him your number. She has since lied through
Speaker 2: her teeth about that, but that's exactly what happened, and
Speaker 2: so I said yeah, and I spoke to him, and
Speaker 2: it turned out to be one of the executive producers
Speaker 2: of the Conjuring And that was in twenty oh seven.
Speaker 2: That was in September or October of twenty oh seven,
Speaker 2: and I started writing the books in August of that year.
Speaker 1: Now, did those people that moved in after you guys,
Speaker 1: did they have stories like this as well?
Speaker 2: Not that they're willing to speak of publicly.
Speaker 1: M interesting, Yeah, but now, what was it about that
Speaker 1: time of you writing the book that you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's time.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I really don't. I mean, I had
Speaker 2: a you know, I had a pretty good gig going.
Speaker 2: I was a clinical I worked in a clinical capacity
Speaker 2: as a counselor at a private school. I was a
Speaker 2: member of the theater company of Rhode Island. You know,
Speaker 2: I did stage plays at night, worked all day and
Speaker 2: went up to the theater and rehearsed all night.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, she's a theater queen.
Speaker 2: I am a theater total theater geek. I am. It's ridiculous, same,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, really, honestly, Oh God, could we talk?
Speaker 1: Why did they put you in the movie? Now, I'm mad?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no. I didn't want any no.
Speaker 2: I I guess I knew that it wouldn't be an
Speaker 2: accurate reflection of my family or our story. And I
Speaker 2: just know I was a consultant on the film.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how much were you involved?
Speaker 2: I told them a whole bunch of stuff. They used
Speaker 2: what they wanted, and I went out to the set
Speaker 2: once with my family, minus my mother, who backed out
Speaker 2: on the trip at the very last minute. And interestingly,
Speaker 2: you know, everybody that was involved with that film was
Speaker 2: out on the set except my mother and Lily Taylor,
Speaker 2: the two matriarchs. Lily did not come out to the
Speaker 2: set that day. She did not want to meet my
Speaker 2: family before the film was over.
Speaker 1: Well, it's so interesting because, like it is based on
Speaker 1: a true story, which anytime I see based on true story,
Speaker 1: I always say, well, so my wigs are based on
Speaker 1: a true story.
Speaker 2: Okay, right, you know, is it a grain of salt
Speaker 2: or is it a pound of salt?
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know exactly. So, I mean you
Speaker 1: you were and you before the movie came out, you
Speaker 1: were ready, you know, did you guys have conversations with
Speaker 1: each other and go, you know, this is it's not
Speaker 1: going to be exactly you know, it's it's it's we're
Speaker 1: very we're inspiring this because its also weird because they
Speaker 1: use your real names and stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had permission to do that. And basically, you know,
Speaker 2: we were told by one of their attorneys, we're making
Speaker 2: this movie. Whether or not your names are attached. We'll
Speaker 2: just tell the story and change the names if you don't,
Speaker 2: you know, want any part of this. So you know,
Speaker 2: I already had two of the three books out. You know,
Speaker 2: what the hell was I supposed to do? You know,
Speaker 2: I just I told them, Yeah, I said, but I
Speaker 2: want I want input, you know, I want input. And
Speaker 2: so I co ordinated with producers and executive producers, and
Speaker 2: you know, they listened to me and then they did
Speaker 2: precisely what they wanted to do. And but you know,
Speaker 2: and like I said before, I don't mean to criticize,
Speaker 2: because they they did something that was impossible, you know,
Speaker 2: to compress a story that big into one hour and
Speaker 2: fifty two minutes is you know, of an impossible feat
Speaker 2: And frankly, I wouldn't be one of the very best authors,
Speaker 2: you know, best sellers in paranormal had it not been
Speaker 2: for the conjuring. You know, nobody would know our story.
Speaker 2: My books would be languaging and obscurity like so many
Speaker 2: other millions of books do because you know, no feature
Speaker 2: film was ever made from the premise, you know, so
Speaker 2: I'm very grateful to the conjuring. But there were a
Speaker 2: cosmic kiss there, you know, the the universe told me
Speaker 2: this is okay. And for a number of reasons, rus
Speaker 2: there were several things. So the first time I saw
Speaker 2: that film, and you know, the New Line Cinema, Warner
Speaker 2: Brothers crew brought me out to California three months before
Speaker 2: it premiered, and I brought my sister Cindy with me,
Speaker 2: and Lorraine Warren was there with her son in law.
Speaker 2: So the four of us are sitting in the big
Speaker 2: VACUUMUS theater on the Warner Brothers lot watching this film
Speaker 2: for the first time. And there's a scene where the
Speaker 2: camera pans around into what was my bedroom and there's
Speaker 2: a folk art drawing of a white cat that's propped
Speaker 2: up on the mantleboard, and I'm staring at that picture
Speaker 2: right now. They had no idea. I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's paint by number or if it was just something
Speaker 2: popular in the seventies that they found, you know, in
Speaker 2: their props department. But why, out of everything that they
Speaker 2: could have chosen. Did they choose this picture that's hanging
Speaker 2: here in my office that was given to me when
Speaker 2: I was thirteen years old and we lived at the farm,
Speaker 2: and I've had it all these years. I've had it
Speaker 2: for forty nine years. Wow, And there it is with
Speaker 2: a wooden peace sign hanging next to it that I
Speaker 2: also had. Now, you know, I didn't know the set designer.
Speaker 2: I didn't know. You know, I never told anybody. They
Speaker 2: never saw any interior shots to my knowledge of the farmhouse.
Speaker 2: And yet they chose, out of more than twenty five
Speaker 2: thousand wallpaper patterns, they chose the exact one that we
Speaker 2: had in the farm.
Speaker 1: That's bad easy.
Speaker 2: You know that Cindy goes, you know, little Mackenzie goes
Speaker 2: running through the house holding a pair a set of
Speaker 2: wind shines that were identical to the ones that we
Speaker 2: had hanging on our front porch. You know, what the
Speaker 2: hell is that?
Speaker 1: How you really didn't see any pictures? Because when I
Speaker 1: was watching you guys on Kindred Spirits going back to
Speaker 1: that house, I mean again, I've seen them. I love
Speaker 1: the Condrag movies. I've seen that when at least five
Speaker 1: times in my life, and so I kind of have
Speaker 1: an idea of what it looks like in the movie,
Speaker 1: and I feel like it kind of like looks like
Speaker 1: the real one, right, I mean, I'm sure for you
Speaker 1: living in it, you can figure out all the time
Speaker 1: it doesn't look.
Speaker 2: Like it at all, not even because we were in
Speaker 2: that house and it bears no resemblance to it whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Well, I saw pictures it used to be white, right
Speaker 1: when you look, it used.
Speaker 2: To be white, mm hmm. And yeah, no, the house
Speaker 2: that they used in they had to go up into
Speaker 2: the trees and pull out all the Spanish moss because
Speaker 2: of course Rhode Island doesn't have Spanish moss, and it
Speaker 2: had a river running behind it, and we had a
Speaker 2: river running behind our house, so you know, they shot
Speaker 2: for some element of authenticity. It's had the same kind
Speaker 2: of spooky feelings as our house did, but it really
Speaker 2: didn't in any way look like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I just felt like kind the essence or
Speaker 1: like maybe the basement or I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: kind of got a vibe where I was like, this
Speaker 1: kind of seems like it, but yeah, it.
Speaker 2: Does, it really does. But no, they never they asked
Speaker 2: me for two photographs. They asked for a photograph of
Speaker 2: our entire family together, and we didn't have one because
Speaker 2: we were the ones taking the pictures. So the Easter
Speaker 2: before we moved to the farm in nineteen seventy, we
Speaker 2: had picture of the five of us, my sisters that
Speaker 2: either my mother and my father took, and then I
Speaker 2: took a picture of my mother and my father and
Speaker 2: they kind of spliced it together and made the Paring family.
Speaker 2: So because they wanted to have, you know, an original
Speaker 2: picture of our family is close to when we moved
Speaker 2: to the farm as possible, and that's you know, the
Speaker 2: photographs that I sent them, the original photographs, and then
Speaker 2: when they were done with them, they sent them back
Speaker 2: to me. So that was a leap of faith sending
Speaker 2: the only copies of those photographs out to California, and
Speaker 2: I was very grateful to get them back in exactly
Speaker 2: the same shape that they left's.
Speaker 1: So, what is it like when you go back there.
Speaker 2: To the farm? Yeah, oh, I love it. It's the
Speaker 2: only place that has ever felt like home to me
Speaker 2: my whole life life. Every place else feels temporary. It's
Speaker 2: the only sense of permanence that I've ever had on
Speaker 2: this planet.
Speaker 1: And how often do you go back.
Speaker 2: As often as I can. But there was a real
Speaker 2: breakdown between the previous owner and myself when the film
Speaker 2: came out, and you know, she basically denied, you know,
Speaker 2: after years and years and years of dragging one paranormal
Speaker 2: investigative team after another through that farmhouse, when the movie
Speaker 2: came out, she went on national TV and said, go away,
Speaker 2: no ghosts here. The parent family made it all up,
Speaker 2: which was, you know, a bold faced lie and she
Speaker 2: knew it. And she just wanted people to stop trespassing
Speaker 2: on her property. And I get that, but you don't
Speaker 2: need to make you know, my family the scapegoat. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, she was on ghost Hunters okay back in
Speaker 2: the like, you know, decades before when that show first premiered.
Speaker 2: I didn't call them and send them to her. She did,
Speaker 2: you know, So I mean I could. I could go
Speaker 2: on for an hour about that, and it's negative and
Speaker 2: I don't want to. You know, she doesn't live there anymore.
Speaker 2: The new owners have been very gracious to me, have
Speaker 2: given me complete total access to the house. I've been
Speaker 2: there probably five or six times since they bought it.
Speaker 1: Well, they certainly you know, support you, you and your
Speaker 1: family's claims. I mean, I happen to know that their
Speaker 1: daughter is really big on TikTok for the kids, and
Speaker 1: she talks a lot about how haunted the house is
Speaker 1: and they open it up to people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's awesome.
Speaker 1: Both of the kids are because they are paranormal investigators,
Speaker 1: so they get it, and and it's cool that they
Speaker 1: give people an opportunity to stay there.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, they've really opened it up to the world.
Speaker 2: And you know, that's kind of a double edged sword
Speaker 2: because you know, they've copped a lot of criticism for
Speaker 2: doing it, especially from the previous owner. But to me,
Speaker 2: if it's done responsibly and if it's done respectfully, then
Speaker 2: I think it's fine because it gives people an opportunity
Speaker 2: to feel the energy of that place, to experience that
Speaker 2: place in a way that they couldn't, you know, in
Speaker 2: any other capacity. And also, you know, not for nothing,
Speaker 2: but every time somebody catches one more piece of undeniable evidence,
Speaker 2: it just serves to validate and vindicate our story. Not
Speaker 2: that I care, because I know what we experienced. I
Speaker 2: know there's something beyond our mortal existence.
Speaker 1: I just look at that time, and you've been so
Speaker 1: generous I feel like we should probably wrap it up, but.
Speaker 2: I would just like to wrap you in my arms
Speaker 2: and give you a squeeze.
Speaker 1: I hope you and I become friends, and I hope
Speaker 1: that when you.
Speaker 2: I thought that already happened.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course, no, yeah, don't.
Speaker 2: Pass tense me. Yeah, future tense me. You know.
Speaker 1: Well, when you're out here, I would love to take
Speaker 1: you to lunch or something if you have the time.
Speaker 2: But wonderful, you know.
Speaker 1: I want to say that a big part of doing
Speaker 1: this podcast and having fun with it and talking to
Speaker 1: people of all walks of life that have had these experiences.
Speaker 1: I really like to advocate for people that have that
Speaker 1: have had these experiences and the trauma that comes with them,
Speaker 1: and especially you know, people telling them that they're liars
Speaker 1: or you know, just anything that they're crazy, that they're
Speaker 1: making it up, whatever like that really is they can
Speaker 1: really do a number of people, and of course also
Speaker 1: the activity that people can experience, and so I think
Speaker 1: it's so powerful to have people speak up about it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's, of course, it's up to people whatever
Speaker 1: they want to do with their stories. But I really
Speaker 1: appreciate the fact that you are so vocal and so
Speaker 1: open to sharing about this stuff.
Speaker 2: I couldn't written the books if I cared anymore what
Speaker 2: people thought, because I knew that I would be opening
Speaker 2: myself and my family up to all kinds of you know,
Speaker 2: criticism and scrutiny. I don't care. You know, I'm not
Speaker 2: here to convince anyone of anything. I'm not. It was
Speaker 2: time to tell this story. It was time to put
Speaker 2: it out into the world. There are millions and millions
Speaker 2: of people that have been touched by spirit in this world.
Speaker 2: And you know, the three most powerful words in this
Speaker 2: language or any other, are I love you. But the
Speaker 2: second most powerful are I believe you. And writing this story,
Speaker 2: writing this trilogy of books. And you know, my endless
Speaker 2: readers that find me, that seek me out at different
Speaker 2: events around the country, they they weep in my arms.
Speaker 2: I mean, they'll literally come and give me a hug
Speaker 2: and start crying and thank me for having the courage
Speaker 2: to tell our story because it has liberated them to
Speaker 2: tell their own, you know, And that's powerful stuff. And
Speaker 2: I don't care who says what. I don't read, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't read the comments on YouTube. I don't read
Speaker 2: you know, I don't I don't care. You know, ninety
Speaker 2: nine percent of these people I've never met, I don't know.
Speaker 2: They don't know my family. You know, everybody's got an opinion.
Speaker 2: I don't care. If I did, I wouldn't have been
Speaker 2: able to do what I did around this, you know.
Speaker 2: And and those that say, oh, you did it for
Speaker 2: fame and fortune, Yeah, it took me a decade to
Speaker 2: become an overnight sensation. First and foremost, No, I'm not rich,
Speaker 2: you jerk. And you know, on top of that, I
Speaker 2: don't see why if I did this work, I shouldn't
Speaker 2: be compensated for it and be allowed to sell my
Speaker 2: books in the world. You know, what's what's wrong with that?
Speaker 2: Why does that make me different than any other author?
Speaker 2: You know, it's just wilful ignorance on the part of
Speaker 2: some people. They got too much time on their hands.
Speaker 2: And I don't. I don't give a damn. I you know,
Speaker 2: I'm like Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
Speaker 2: But you know I will tell you this. You know.
Speaker 2: The upside to this is that I have met so
Speaker 2: many extraordinary people, raz yourself included, that I never ever
Speaker 2: would have known had I not been brave enough to
Speaker 2: sit down and tell our story. And for those who
Speaker 2: say that my family is lying, let me tell you,
Speaker 2: this is probably the most well documented haunting, not only
Speaker 2: in American history, but probably in world history. There are
Speaker 2: mentions of this story going back more than forty years
Speaker 2: in books that have been written starting in the nineteen
Speaker 2: eighties that we didn't even know about. You know, Rosemary
Speaker 2: Ellen Guiy wrote about our story in the Encyclopedia of
Speaker 2: Ghosts and Spirits, and I didn't even know about that
Speaker 2: until twenty ten. You know, this is an extremely well
Speaker 2: documented story, and I found that where it had been
Speaker 2: documented there were inaccuracies, and I thought that it deserved
Speaker 2: to be told truthfully, authentically, honestly and organically, and so
Speaker 2: that's what I did. And for anybody that thinks that
Speaker 2: I tend myself to a computer for seven years of
Speaker 2: my life to the exclusion of all else in the
Speaker 2: prime of my life to concoct one big, fat, elaborate
Speaker 2: lie is delusional. So I give no credence to their commentary.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm inspired. Can you tell people you know where
Speaker 1: to find you? Because I know you have a show
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, I'm going to be on it at
Speaker 1: some point soon.
Speaker 2: Oh, you are going to be on it. I already
Speaker 2: booked you. Yes, It's called The World Awakening and it's
Speaker 2: on my Andrea Perrin YouTube channel. I started it again.
Speaker 2: I used to do it several years ago with George Lopez,
Speaker 2: the sit down comedian, and it was just a blog
Speaker 2: talk audio, but now it's video. I'm on streamyard. My
Speaker 2: producer is Tony Rathman, and I bring on a very
Speaker 2: wide variety of people in the field, a real eclectic
Speaker 2: mix of people. It's just it's delightful, it's de lovely,
Speaker 2: it's delirious. And they can find me just all they
Speaker 2: have to do is google my name. Just google me.
Speaker 2: I know that sounds dirty, but it's really not. And
Speaker 2: I'm everywhere omnipresent like spirits. I have five Facebook pages.
Speaker 2: You can find me at Andrea parn Facebook. My fan
Speaker 2: page is called the Buttercup Brigade, where the good deed
Speaker 2: doers that wear rose colored glasses. It's a really cushy, nice, soft,
Speaker 2: fluffy space to land in cyberspace. And I have a
Speaker 2: website which is really stale and old, and I'll tell
Speaker 2: you when I update it, but it's House of Darkness,
Speaker 2: House offlight dot Com and I have book pages for
Speaker 2: my books In a Flicker that I wrote with George,
Speaker 2: which is very dark and if you're into Jack the Ripper,
Speaker 2: it'll blow your mind. It's his story. I just you know,
Speaker 2: put it in print for him. But he I could
Speaker 2: never have come up with it, Roz, it's so brilliant.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, he's so brilliant. But it's called In
Speaker 2: a Flicker and it's about time travel and Jack the
Speaker 2: Ripper and it's really fabulous. And so I have an
Speaker 2: Inflicker page. I have a House of Darkness, House of
Speaker 2: Light book page, book and author page on Facebook, and
Speaker 2: I have a page for my new book which I'm
Speaker 2: re releasing, called A Wonder to Behold, and you can
Speaker 2: only buy it privately from me for the first edition,
Speaker 2: but I'm coming out with the extended edition with extra
Speaker 2: photographs and extra material and hardbound this year. And it's
Speaker 2: all about extraterrestrials. And so the next time I'm on
Speaker 2: your show, we'll talk about what my mother refers to
Speaker 2: as my little friends.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, because we haven't even gotten to
Speaker 1: We didn't even touch it. It was so much because yeah,
Speaker 1: like in Amy Brunie's book, she talks about you conjuring
Speaker 1: UFOs in front of her. I mean, there's just so
Speaker 1: much and I would so appreciate if you ever wanted
Speaker 1: to come back. I would love to talk to you.
Speaker 1: I mean, you certainly keep busy, and you also do
Speaker 1: all the conventions and stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh I do, yeah, you know, until COVID. But you know,
Speaker 2: I'm heading back out on the road. I'm fully vaccinated.
Speaker 2: I'm ready to go. You know, our cases are dropping
Speaker 2: nationwide and it's been a very introspective, reflective year for
Speaker 2: me to spend at home doing a lot of writing
Speaker 2: and you know, getting on the internet and going all
Speaker 2: over the world on Zoom, you know. I mean, we've
Speaker 2: humans find a way and thank god we had the
Speaker 2: internet and it didn't crash, you know, when the whole
Speaker 2: world shut down because of this virus. But yeah, it's
Speaker 2: been it's actually been good for me in that respect
Speaker 2: because I am very much a homebody and you know,
Speaker 2: but when I get back out in the world, I
Speaker 2: take people out by the hundreds and thousands out into
Speaker 2: you know, areas that are open where the sky is
Speaker 2: completely open, and I sing that's you know, I just
Speaker 2: sing to them, and they come in numbers that you
Speaker 2: could not even wrap your mind around. And I'm not
Speaker 2: just the old ghost lady. I'm the ET lady too.
Speaker 1: What's your favorite song to sing for the UFOs.
Speaker 2: The nearness of you?
Speaker 1: Well, you should hear the theme song to this show.
Speaker 1: They might like it. It's me. I recorded it myself.
Speaker 2: Oh, excellent, excellent. I'll put it in my ET playlist.
Speaker 1: And I hope that I would. It would be so
Speaker 1: great to see you doing some theater.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, no, no, you're done that. No, I'm all done,
Speaker 2: not unless my asses in the audience. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: you know no. I did it for twenty almost twenty
Speaker 2: five years that I was a stage actor and you know,
Speaker 2: really into musicals, although I love doing straight plays as well. No,
Speaker 2: I'm done playing other people now. I'm just me.
Speaker 1: I love that. Oh. I love Andrea Baron. So happy
Speaker 1: we met and hopefully she'll be back because there's so
Speaker 1: much more to talk about. And again, thank you to
Speaker 1: Patrick Keller for connecting us. And go to patroon dot
Speaker 1: com slash ros dresfales for a little bit more and
Speaker 1: for you know, all months and months of content videos,
Speaker 1: bonus clips, all that stuff. It helps me out a lot.
Speaker 1: And yeah, please read the show five stars on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1: And you have a ghost story, you could leave it
Speaker 1: there in a five star review. Maybe I'll read it
Speaker 1: on the show. You could also send me a ghost
Speaker 1: story on the Facebook group. Ghosted by Roz dres Fales.
Speaker 1: I want your listener stories for Listener Episode extravaganzas, So
Speaker 1: email those two ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com
Speaker 1: with the subject line listener episode and please spread the
Speaker 1: word about the show. Tell your friends, tell your family,
Speaker 1: Tell that that weird person you know that is in
Speaker 1: your life that would appreciate the weirdness that happens here.
Speaker 1: I love you all, both living and dead. But if
Speaker 1: I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me.
Speaker 1: Came back
Speaker 2: A podcast a podcast network