WEBVTT - Pet Care Demand Post-Pandemic 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:04.040 Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:06.920 my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:11.520 you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:15.600 with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.479 on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.960 at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. All right, Matt, you'll 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:25.680 get this. People love dogs, especially the millennial generation. We're 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.160 Owning a pet is more common than having a kid 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.440 in any US cities. In fact, San Francisco is home 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.080 to nearly one hundred and fifty thousand dogs, but just 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:35.880 one hundred and fifteen thousand children. That's according to the 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.879 American Community Survey. So, uh, you know, I'm not a 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.760 pet person, but I know most people are, and it's 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.159 a big business. Uh So we're happy to welcome Aaron Easterly. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.200 He's a CEO. But you don't have a dog, never 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.519 had a dog, never had a pet. Your poor children, 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.319 I know, I know that's trust movie and they've never 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.720 been we've never taken him to Disney. So just failure 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.560 on so many fronts, exactly, Aaron, thanks so much for 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:02.320 joining us forgive me for not being a pet enthusiast, 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.640 but talk to us about Rover, what your company is, 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.360 what you do, and because I know you're going public soon, 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:13.600 I believe Yeah, that's right. So Rover was founded on 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.000 the premise that all people should deserve the unconditional love 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.160 of a pet in their lives, whether it be dog 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.600 or cat. And we want to make it really easy 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.839 for people to go about their busy, modern hectic lives 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.200 and half pets in their lives. So we started a 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.800 peer to peer marketplace where people can find pet sitters 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.039 and dog walkers, I mean, anything else they're looking for 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:37.920 for the pet care. So how did how did your 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:45.880 business get impacted by the pandemic? UM Well tailed two 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.400 parts of the pandemic. The first part was was brutal. 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.320 People stayed indoors, that they didn't go into work, and 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.960 they traveled a lot less. And we're largely a travel 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.160 related business of what to do with your pets when 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.280 you leave town? Sometimes let's to do with your pets 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.520 when you go into work. So our business was hit 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.520 pretty hard. But during that same period of time, um 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.720 the adoption rates of pets of the annual growth rate 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.320 in that roughly quadruple um. So everyone during the pandemic 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.280 went out and got a dog or a cat, and 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.480 so it actually increased our addressable market and we gained 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.639 material share. I think at the beginning of the pandemic 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.679 we were about six and a half times the next 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:28.720 biggest player if you look at the third party credit 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.640 card data sales data um when we started our go 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.280 public vias back process, or roughly ten times bigger. And 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.200 if you look at the most recent data or something 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:42.160 about sixteen or seventeen times bigger. UM. So weirdly, the 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.280 pandemic heard us in the short term, but actually expanded 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:49.000 our addressable market, caused us to gain market share, and 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.639 we've boom coming out of it, saying records the last 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:56.440 several months. So, uh, most people know my dog Steve 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.960 is not just my pet. He's my very best friend 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:04.359 and and uh he's you know, been all over with 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.880 me from New York to Bronxville. We live in Berlin now. 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.200 He flew We got him a business class seed. He 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:14.279 flew with me on the plane, did we really Yeah yeah, Um, 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.840 he had the kosher meal, and uh he didn't drink 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.120 any beers because you know, you had to hold it 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.440 for eight hours. But for for me, the hardest thing 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.600 is getting these services, finding a dog walker when I 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:32.440 was single, UM or finding someone to watch Steve when 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:37.280 I was going places that didn't accept pets, and uh, 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.520 I've always had to rely on a mishmash of different 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:45.800 services UM and different platforms to find this. UM. I 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.400 can understand your popularity, but I wonder if you know 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.760 the popularity of pets at this point is at a 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.920 peak because of the pandemic. Arin do you think that 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.280 we're gonna see, now you know, the need to own 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.720 a dog kind of decline? Well, I think that if 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.080 you look at the pet ownership breaks in the U S, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.240 they's continued to go up even before the pandemic, and 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:13.280 that's a multidecade trend, and the spend per pet continues 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:17.760 to go up. UM. I don't think that coming out 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:19.960 of the pandemic is going to reverse that. In a 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.839 lot of ways, I think having a dog is similar 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.240 to the emotional relationships sometimes people have with kids, which 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.320 is like, once you're in your life, you can't imagine 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.200 your life without them, And so I expect that will 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.280 be pretty similar that most people once they have their 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:37.800 furry ball of joy around them will be tough to 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.640 imagine life without them. All right, again, I'm not a 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.320 pet person. I'm an financial analyst. By the way, someone 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.840 writes in and says, I didn't realize Paul hated American 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:51.359 values dogs in Disney in Disney um, But I have 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.400 a financial analystis stock analy So talk to me about 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.160 your business model. How do you make money in the 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:01.800 pet business? Sure? So we take a percentage of the 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:07.560 transactions going through rover Um, typically a small percentage in 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:12.520 the range of on average um and across all of 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.920 our services is a small percentage. I want to be 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.520 in your business. Can you imagine if your stockbrokers that 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:26.599 I'll take of every trade? Well, small, I'll say, a 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.000 minority of the dollars going through How about that? All right? 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:30.640 So give us some some of the metrics. Is that 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.560 a perchase? I mean, well, what are the metrics that 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.800 really drive your business? Yeah? The biggest thing for our 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:40.600 business is the rate of repeats. The business is typically 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:44.440 between eight and repeat business in a given month. We 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:46.919 don't have to do a lot to drive repeat business. 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:51.600 We have incredible loyalty, so that generates really strong Uh, 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.880 incremental cash flow dynamics, a new customer acquisition and the 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.320 rate of repeat are the big drivers of our business 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.279 UM and then average order value UM. So most people 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.360 when you travel out of town maybe go for three 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.720 or four night time average at the mix of some 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.880 long trips and some small trips UM. And on average 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.039 overnight cares you know, roughly thirty to thirty five dollars 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.560 daytime care like in home daycare and dog walking is 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:22.400 about twenty Is there any plans, I mean for expansion. 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.599 I could think of some markets that need a platform 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.280 like this. For example, UM, you know, if you want 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.359 to adopt a dog, pet Finder kind of owns that 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:35.280 market in America. But if you want to um find 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:40.159 a breeder, it's really difficult to uh sort through all 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.280 the web pages and understand who's reputable and who's not. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.680 I mean, it seems like there's a lot to be 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:50.760 done in this space. And obviously pets is a um 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.520 an industry in which people are just willing to dump cash. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:07:00.719 I mean, I will pay whatever it costs for Steve. Yeah. Uh, 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.840 same with mine. That dog London UM lover to death 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.560 and she owns me. Yeah. One of the neat things 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.360 about our business is that there are actually relatively few 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.520 scale tech companies in the pet space. The pet industry 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.600 was associated with dot com access about twenty years ago, 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.080 so suffered from uh, not as much investment as it 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.120 could have had. And so when you think about in 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:29.320 the US tech companies that have a direct digital relationship 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.200 with pet owners in the seven figure range, there's basically 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.320 two e Amazon and Rover, and we think that puts 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.080 us in a really nice position to continue to expand 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.640 our offerings. When we started, we had just two offerings. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.800 Both were overnight care boarding, which as you take your 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.120 dog to someone else's home and house sitting someone comes 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.760 to your home. And when we rolled out our daytime 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:57.200 services dog walking, drop and visit in home daycare. Aaron Easterly, 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:03.520 CEO of Rover, thanks very much. All right, let's turn 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.640 to cyber security. Let's turn to ransomware. We've seen a 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.760 lot of ransomware stories this year. Seems like they're running, 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:15.000 you know, much more frequently than we've seen in the past. Yeah, exactly, 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.520 even Microsoft, right, which is like if they can't defend 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.440 against the cyber attack, and who can It's exactly. It's 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.800 one thing for like the Paramount Film Studio to get hacked. 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:28.000 It's another thing for Microsoft. Patrick, I'm co founder of Ventures, 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.840 former head of trust and security at Dropbox and the 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.280 senior VP, chief Trust Officer of Salesforce joins this Patrick, 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.840 thanks so much for joining us. Is it my imagination 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:41.679 or are we seeing more ransomware stories on corporate America 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:47.960 and global uh, you know, corporations. It's not your mantros imagination. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.840 Were absolutely seeing more on this, and I would say 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.800 a lot of it is tied to just the plicans 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:55.840 of the business model. It used to be if you 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.599 were cyber criminal in the past and you steal information, 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:00.800 you have to find them a good place and sell 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.440 instimate money. But nowadays are the ransomware. It's very simple. 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.840 Now you point and click and crypt and you can 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.200 go directly demonetizing by using cryptocurrency. We you know, we 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:16.680 really didn't have ransomware before cryptocurrency became a thing. Although 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:20.959 I mean, you can't really hide, um where the money 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.480 is going with cryptocurrency. Everyone can see on the public ledger, 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.199 so it seems pretty dumb in a way too. But 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.000 it was supposed to be you can't trace it, but 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.080 that was never the case. You literally can trace it 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:34.760 better than anything else in the world. I mean, it's 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:40.599 like the most traceable there. There is transparency on the transactions, 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.040 and there are companies that look at tracing it, but 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.040 the wallet owners are not known, and there are third 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.720 party services called tumblers that move it through many wallets, 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.280 rapidly splitting transactions to try to anonymize them. So true, 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.880 it's like shredding a paper, but you can just if 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.840 you want to spend the time and assume, assuming the 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.240 CIA and the f I have you know, hired enough 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.880 employees you or or or you if you want to 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.120 write a program, you know, Um, it just takes another 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.319 couple of seconds to do it. It's not I mean, 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.439 it is the most easily traceable thing in the world. 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:22.640 So clearly, cyber uh, cyber security isn't threatened by crypto, right, 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.760 it's it's that these hackers have figured out a way 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.680 to get in. Why can they even get into Microsoft? 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:32.079 I mean you were running security at drop Box, You're 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:36.400 in the in the tech world. Um at Salesforce. Is 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:42.600 there anyone who's unhappable? Nobody is unhappable. Uh. Yeah, At 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:44.319 the end of the day, it's a game of statistics. 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.040 I hate to say the larger the company is, the 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.080 more likely it is that you will find that one 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.480 mistake that was made. If all you're looking for is 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.199 one mistake, is the bad guy to find that entry point. 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.599 Once you have an entry point, you start exploring extracting 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.920 information what's called loving laterally, which is broadening your access 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.200 across the network to get into more systems until you 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.679 have enough critical access that you do what you need 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.760 to do. So it's an iterative process. It takes some time, 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.360 but frankly, I think you know, even decades ago, you 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.960 know it's it became common knowledge, at least among the 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.280 cyber compassentity that there is no such thing as being 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:26.000 perfectly secure. It's all about risk management and prioritization. What 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:30.080 do you think corporations should do if it's, you know, 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.200 if you really can't prevent a hack? What should be 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.880 the strategy for some of these corporations As I think 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.760 about kind of trying to make more their systems more secure, 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.680 it's I would categorize them into two things. Number one 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:50.080 is early detection and the ability to do something about it. 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.520 When you see an early indication of a breach coming 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.760 in UM, somebody has gotten into a system, you need 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.480 to have a timely response for that after you detected, 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.199 and detection, by the way, is very difficult at scale. 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.559 My advice is for the vast majority of companies that 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:09.199 can't build twenty four seven in house monitoring UM systems 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:12.920 and teams basically outsourced the detection part. You want somebody 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:17.160 who's watching your network seven who can have early indicators 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.880 that something is going wrong and block it at that 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.360 point in time. The second thing is, you know, let's 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.280 assume that doesn't happen. You need a plan for resilience. So, 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.520 you know, let's assume they've gotten in, they moved laterally, 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.679 they've encrypted a bunch of information or whatnot. You need 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.880 to have the ability to continue your business, and that 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.920 means being able to recover your information UM. A lot 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.240 of the advice I give folks given folks even when 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.160 there was a drop box, is just store things in 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.960 like a cloud based service like a drop box or 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.560 a Google Drive or Microsoft share Point, and you know, 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.040 they can decrypt the or they can encrypt and steal 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.160 the local copy, but they won't be able to get 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:56.880 to the cloud back at the stair at least not 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.400 very effectively, So that's one element, but of BEE much 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.880 more sophisticated than that. It's really building scenarios and testing 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.760 against them to make sure that you anticipate that something 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:08.800 like this is going to happen to your business and 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.920 that you can continue operations. What are you investing in? 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.000 You you're starting a v VC fund, What are you 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:20.480 looking for? We're looking very broadly. You know, my partners 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.360 J and I started send Ventures and March efficially we 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.560 raised the twinter million dollar funds, been actively investing, made 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:31.240 for investments already. Um, honestly, you know, we we differentiate 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:37.080 because we're former practitioners. We've been running cybersecurity serve functions 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.280 inside of large enterprises for twenty some one years and 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.600 that gives a slightly different perspective. So you know, what 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:44.600 we invest in is quite frankly, you know, when we 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.640 look at it from a CAZO security leaders perspective, we're 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.080 looking stuff and say, yeah, this would have made our 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.960 jobs much easier. This is this is a company I 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.679 would have bought as a customer in the past, So 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:02.000 we're looking through the perspective of buyers ones and obviously 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.120 certain things like ransomware, super interested, but it's a much 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.800 broader landscape that we look at really from the lens 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.240 of people who have been practitioners in space for quite 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.520 a long time. All Right, Patrick, thanks very much for 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:16.520 joining us. Totally fascinating, obviously totally fascinating topic. Great to 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.760 hear from Patrick him their co founder of sin Ventures. 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:26.680 Now let's talk about investing in Uh well, I guess 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:32.560 anti climate change. Investing to stop climate change, I guess 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.240 is the way to put it. Gabriella Herculano, there's a 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.600 CEO of i Clama, and she joins us um with 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.120 her insights on this and got me. The interesting thing 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.760 is it's not so easy to understand how to do 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.800 this correctly, right, because if you want to raise the 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:52.040 capital costs of those people or companies who emit too 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.880 much carbon, you also end up raising their returns thereby 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.280 giving yourself lower returns. Or I guess if you want 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.160 to say, I want to take a bet that the 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.880 government is going to change regulations so that these you know, 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:08.480 carbon neutral investments are going to pay off later, that's 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.320 also not really moving the needle yourself. So what do 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.240 you do? Well? Um, Well, first of all, thank you 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.080 so much. Format for having me. What we do is 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:23.200 we look at the companies that can can really transition us, 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.680 move us away from business as usual based on solutions 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:32.200 that are um high on carbon footprint. The the motivation 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.960 behind all that we do is the idea that the 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.920 best way to reduce the carbon in the atmosphere is 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.480 by not a meeting in the first place. So what 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:44.520 are these solutions and how do we provide investors with 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.840 a direct exposure to that. That's pretty much what we've done. 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.400 It took us almost two years to put this product together. Um, 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:57.080 we think that what we've done is provide exposure to 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:01.200 a very comprehensive set of relevance visions. And we have 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:05.280 a tangible metric that allows us to determine and ascertain 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.800 and quantify that relevance, which is potential avoided emissions in 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:14.160 diggatons of field two equivalent per year. So that's a mouthful, 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.480 but it's that idea that there is a data between 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.720 the emissions that come from you driving from point A 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.560 to point B an internal combustion engine and taking an 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.800 electric vehicle tesla right for for that same need, and 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.840 that delta is the avoidance and that's where the world 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.800 needs to go towards we need to go UM to 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:40.120 satisfy our needs different UH needs for electricity and needs 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:46.080 for transportation, for food, UM, all of those relevant ways 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:51.200 in terms of mitigating climate change. So, Gabby, one of 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.960 the issues that we've heard from E s G investors 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.400 is that you know, the amount available data to make 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.240 informed decisions just really isn't that good. I mean, you know, 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.280 for typical financial analysis, you want the income statement, to 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.280 balance sheet, the cash flow statement, but for E s 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:08.560 G you need a whole bunch of other metrics and 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.720 they're not really out there or they're not consistent. How 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.440 do you guys deal with that? Well, we we took 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.639 manage in our own hands. We we we gather the 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.040 information ourselves. Where a London day is the ginstant tact 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.200 and in Europe we have what is called EU taxonomy, 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.760 the companies whom have to report what is deemed to 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:34.120 be products and services that are positive in the impact 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.439 in terms of environmental um changes and benefits. So that 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.120 very long list of what these products and services are 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:46.520 was a very important UM guideline for us. And what 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.720 we did was we we we have we developed our 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.959 own methodology because there was no, nothing remotely close to 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.639 what we wanted to do in the marketplace. So we 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.439 vertically integrate. We created our own equity benchmarks. So we 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:05.320 triangulated these these UH finding the data on what is 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.760 green revenue and what is also brown revenue, and surprisingly 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.600 that data is also not there. Investors that want to 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:15.400 negatively screen struggle to get that information. So we looked 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.920 at the universe that is in line with these products 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.639 and services that move us away from the business as 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.879 usual right like we talked about. So we quantified the 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.720 green revenue and the brown revenue, and then we we 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:32.040 quantified and estimated the potential avoided emissions, which is another 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:36.520 very relevant UM influence for us is the framework by 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:41.520 mission innovation and what constitutes UH that delta, that potential 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.359 avoiding inities. So we quantify. That's why it took us 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:48.440 two years because we quantified. We went through all the filings, 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.560 all the public information for each of the companies are 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.359 it's about hundred and sixty nins in our universe, and 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.240 we quantify that information for each one of them. What's 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:58.880 the name of the e t F you're launching later 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:05.359 this month? UM. We we launched last Wednesday, UM launched too. Yeah, yeah, 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.359 so launching one on New York Stockaching is great. Launching 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.439 too is fantastic. UM it's called i climb a Global 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:17.560 Decarbonization Transition Leaders and the iclimbate Distributed Renewable Energy Transition Leaders, 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.439 which tells what we think is the most exciting story 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.520 within clean energy space, which is the decentralization of our 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.359 power systems. So we launched both least Wednesday. All right, 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:30.840 all right, we'll pay attention to those certainly going forward, 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.240 and certainly is G investing is a growing, growing part 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.000 of this marketplace, a lot of investor interest. Gabriella Herculano, 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.240 CEO of I Climate, joining us again talking about E 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.840 s G investing, and as I said, a lot of 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.520 folks are really interested in this UM type of investing, 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.640 and they're really pressing the companies that they own, whether 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.320 it's in their mutual funds and their et s, about 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:56.240 those companies UH efforts on E s G and again 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.840 there's lots of metrics, lots of grades. Even on the 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.080 Bloomberg terminal under the f A function where you have 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.120 financial analysis, you have income statement balanchee, cash flow statements, 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.840 all that kind of good stuff. Uh and bloombernk also 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.800 in that function has E s G data, so we're 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:17.399 a big part of that data process right there. You know, 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:21.040 I'm looking at Tesla t s l a U S 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.199 Equity and then I hit b Q to get that 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.119 Bloomberg quote. It's my favorite quote on the terminal for 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.040 security because it gives you just a snapshot of everything. 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.199 And I'm looking at Tessa right here, and it's up 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:34.760 on a trailing twelve month basis, but it's down more 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:36.959 than six percent here on a year to day basis. 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:38.840 So it feels to me like a stock that's looking 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.040 for a catalyst for that next move. And they we 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.200 have earnings for the company and for the close, and 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.080 so let's get a preview and there's no one better 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:49.720 than Dan Ives for that preview. Dan Ives as a 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.679 managing director Equity Research at web Bush Securities. He is 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.360 a proud alumnus of the Penn State University. Matt so 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.800 goes goes against your buck eyes every year. Dan, thanks 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:02.520 for joining us here. Again, I'm looking at the stock, 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:05.240 you know, kind of not doing much this year. What 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.280 do you think is the next catalyst for this name? 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.240 And will that catalyst come after the close tonight. Yeah, 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.000 I mean it's really been about the China story because 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.240 China is such a windpin to the test of both pieces. 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:22.399 That's about deliveries going into next year, and China was 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.800 chopping at this quarter in terms of pr issue safety. 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.800 That definitely had, but I'd say a negative impact on demand. 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:33.640 Tonight's really about Musk hand holding investors through the rest 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.720 of the year in terms of the trajectory, what China 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:40.360 looks like and alternately, what deliveries could be. I view 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.760 it as a positive catalysts. The stocks really under perform 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.120 this year after what was the story to Yere last year. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.040 My view to three years out in the green tidalway, 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:50.720 this continues to being one of the best ways to 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:55.640 play it. You know, I look through um your recommendations, Dan, 0:21:55.880 --> 0:22:00.679 and you are just crushing it on every other stock 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:03.879 that that you cover. You have a big universe and 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:09.639 you're beating your peers almost across the board. The only 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:12.960 I mean, you're still beating your peers on Tesla, but 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:16.480 still it's down and you have a thousand dollar price target. 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:18.520 What do they do wrong or were they not do that? 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.680 You expected? What was the unexpected move from Tesla. Yeah, 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:25.080 and I think when we make these calls and over 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:28.040 the last you know called twenty plus years, I I 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:30.320 don't like to look at stocks over a quarter or two, right, 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:32.879 it's the longer term thesis. And I think when you 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.240 look at tests for the first part of the thesis 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:39.040 played out last year, but so far this year, China 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:41.720 is underperformed. And that's why the stocks on the perform 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:43.960 as long as you know, when when you have all 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:47.040 these competitors coming in the e V landscape, from the 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:50.960 traditional the GM, FORD, b W to the startups, that's 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:54.960 put a perception almost an overhang issue comes down to China. 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:57.960 And I think what's been a bit surprising is what 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:02.800