Speaker 1: The terrifying moments of Russian missile strikes captured in video
Speaker 1: circulating online. The target President Zelenski's hometown. But this wasn't
Speaker 1: a military science. It was innocent families at home when
Speaker 1: a missile tore a hole through their apartment block. At
Speaker 1: least six people were killed in the attack, including a
Speaker 1: ten year old girl, and at least seventy five injured.
Speaker 1: The Russian Defense minister making it clear it's increasing attacks
Speaker 1: in response to a dramatic drone strike in Moscow Sunday
Speaker 1: hitting a building housing government offices.
Speaker 2: So the Ukrainians hit some government offices in Moscow, putin
Speaker 2: hits back at Zelensky's hometown with just residential apartment buildings,
Speaker 2: killing people, and says stated out loud, Yeah, this is
Speaker 2: retaliation for doing that. Let's get an update on Ukraine,
Speaker 2: that situation and everything else going on with the military
Speaker 2: analyst Mike Leins, who served the United States military in
Speaker 2: a variety of capacities through the years and it now
Speaker 2: respected military analyst for CNN, among other places. Hello, Mike,
Speaker 2: how are.
Speaker 3: You Kiwani guy? It's great to be back with you
Speaker 3: that back.
Speaker 2: And forth aside saw you on CNN the of the
Speaker 2: day talking about the counter offensive and how it's showing
Speaker 2: some signs of life and maybe they've found a weak
Speaker 2: spot in the Russian line. What's that story all about?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think there's a little
Speaker 3: kink in the armor here of the Russians of this
Speaker 3: long Maginer line they've created on this front here eight
Speaker 3: hundred kilometers and for Ukraine to break through, they have
Speaker 3: to concentrate their forces, and it appears so far that
Speaker 3: they've they've gotten through like the first level of what
Speaker 3: are two more defensive lines that they have to get through,
Speaker 3: these mine fere minefields as well as trenches. And by
Speaker 3: taking these two towns, Robiinsk is one of them, I
Speaker 3: know that office appreciate. Within that oblast, they now can
Speaker 3: create a shock effect and try to break through and
Speaker 3: you know, get to the sea os off and you know,
Speaker 3: separate this the southern theater for example, separate Russian troops
Speaker 3: that it would be to their west, get them to surrender,
Speaker 3: and now they threaten Crimea. So they appear to be
Speaker 3: breaking through here. We still don't know whether or not
Speaker 3: that they've made any more progress from what I've read.
Speaker 3: Now they've seem to be somewhat stalled, but if they
Speaker 3: can hold off another thirty days when abrams tanks arrive
Speaker 3: and other combat equipment arise, they might have a chance.
Speaker 2: Mike is non experts, we've been somewhat surprised at how
Speaker 2: effective the mining of landscape has been in holding the
Speaker 2: Ukrainian counteroffensive back. What's the state of the art in
Speaker 2: mind clearing equipment technology.
Speaker 3: It's difficult. There's a couple of things. There's something called
Speaker 3: a myclick that allows you to fire like a pressurized
Speaker 3: charge over an area. So let's think about it as
Speaker 3: a missile that blows up that The mines then are
Speaker 3: blown up because they've become pressurized and they stimulate a
Speaker 3: vehicle running over them. But with the Russians have done,
Speaker 3: they stacked mines two and three deep in some areas here,
Speaker 3: so that Michlik that that mind clearing technology is not
Speaker 3: going to work. So the second part to that is
Speaker 3: things that fit in front mind clearing tanks that go
Speaker 3: in front of the infantry and their way out front
Speaker 3: that looked to kind of scoop them up and push
Speaker 3: them forward so they don't clear the tracks, they don't
Speaker 3: make any kind of damage that way, that way is
Speaker 3: a much slower they get the same kind of progress there.
Speaker 3: The Ukraine military needs more of that kind of equipment.
Speaker 3: They'll use the mich looks, they'll use those mind clearing
Speaker 3: charges in some level, but what's going to really help
Speaker 3: them is both the mind clearing equipment in front of
Speaker 3: tanks as well as bridging equipment, because the second thing
Speaker 3: you could do is put a bridge over it and
Speaker 3: use that as a way to get through a minefield.
Speaker 3: As well.
Speaker 2: On that other thing you were talking about cutting the
Speaker 2: Russian forces in two I was watching me on TV
Speaker 2: and you had the arrows and the map and everything
Speaker 2: like that, and I was trying to picture, like how
Speaker 2: many Russian forces would they be able to put in
Speaker 2: a position of having the surrender. How many thousands are
Speaker 2: we talking about or is it a thousand?
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably thirty to twenty to thirty thousands along that. Yeah, No,
Speaker 3: it would be huge, And it's something I'm sure that
Speaker 3: you know the the Ukraine's not talking about because that's
Speaker 3: how many troops are in that area defending because Crimea
Speaker 3: is so important to them, and so they when the
Speaker 3: dam was blown a few weeks ago, that that kind
Speaker 3: of moved that line up further let's say east, right
Speaker 3: up up the Nepro River in a certain way, because
Speaker 3: the quickest way would have been to just afford the
Speaker 3: river there and go right for Crimea there. But now
Speaker 3: they've kind of moved it up and so they're now
Speaker 3: they've trapped potentially more Russians on the other side of
Speaker 3: that of that the salient there. So again, then if
Speaker 3: they can break through and create this boundary, the race
Speaker 3: is on too, the Sea of as Office. That is
Speaker 3: what I was saying yesterday, because if they can do
Speaker 3: that and create that kind of spot, they turned their
Speaker 3: weapons now to the west, and they've got thirty thousand
Speaker 3: Russian troops that they can easily take out or make
Speaker 3: them surrender.
Speaker 2: Mike, what do you hear about when various weapons and
Speaker 2: weapons systems might be brought to bear, from tanks to
Speaker 2: F sixteens.
Speaker 3: So that's the issue. Because the tanks won't get there
Speaker 3: until September, they're still going to have to be some
Speaker 3: training on them. They'll make an impact when they get
Speaker 3: to the battlefield. But they also the Ukraine still have
Speaker 3: got to fight combined arms. They're still fighting very serily.
Speaker 3: You saw the video the other day of a BMP
Speaker 3: or an infantry fighting vehicle going into a trench and
Speaker 3: then exposing its entire bottom half and then coming back out.
Speaker 3: They've got to fight combined arms, they got to bring
Speaker 3: an engineer with them at the same time, they've got
Speaker 3: to be shooting artillery. That's what's confusing me right now
Speaker 3: is I don't see the Russian artillery firing up that
Speaker 3: first defensive mindfields and minefield is only good if it's
Speaker 3: covered up. So again, it's going to be a couple
Speaker 3: of months before the tanks get there. I don't see
Speaker 3: the F sixteen is getting there for nine or ten months.
Speaker 3: I mean that's going to be almost a year. And
Speaker 3: the F sixteens that are going are you twenty years old,
Speaker 3: don't have the same technology. The war could be over
Speaker 3: by then if if you know the Ukrainian's kind of
Speaker 3: play this right, I.
Speaker 2: Know you've been studying this kind of stuff your whole life,
Speaker 2: so you'd be a good guy to ask. Just reading
Speaker 2: military history myself, whether it's battles in the Civil War,
Speaker 2: World War two, or whatever, and then watching and modern times,
Speaker 2: how often do plans ever work out? It seems like
Speaker 2: it's just constant like throwing the plan out the window,
Speaker 2: impro improvis improvising after you know, it's the you know,
Speaker 2: the other side gets to say sort of deal or
Speaker 2: you have a plan, but they get to react to
Speaker 2: certain way. Is it Is it as much improvation improvise
Speaker 2: improvising as it looks.
Speaker 3: Like it is. And it's about tactical improvation improvisation of
Speaker 3: you know, whether something happens something tactically like you get
Speaker 3: you know, get a chemical attack or something. We call
Speaker 3: it getting slimed, let's say. But you mean think about
Speaker 3: it in the Grant scheme. You know, the D Day
Speaker 3: invasion was a plan that went off very well. That
Speaker 3: if that has failed, you know, the world's a different
Speaker 3: place today. But in the same token, operation market Garden
Speaker 3: doesn't work. Uh, you know, we didn't get the three
Speaker 3: bridges there. That counter offensive did not work and that
Speaker 3: set us back a few months. And then on the
Speaker 3: other side of the coin determined the Battle of the Balls,
Speaker 3: their counter offensive into Belgium and World War two doesn't work.
Speaker 3: But the US and Allied counter offensive back ends up working.
Speaker 3: So I think you got to look at strategy versus tactics. Right, Strategically,
Speaker 3: what Ukraine has to do is cut Russian forces in half?
Speaker 3: And so where do they cut them in half? The
Speaker 3: tactical decision and if they can pick the right spot
Speaker 3: and get through it, they might be able to be
Speaker 3: more successful.
Speaker 2: Jack, Before I make a transition, do you have another
Speaker 2: Ukraine matter? Okay, we're talking to military analyst Mike Lions
Speaker 2: and Mike a quick personal note and then onto my question.
Speaker 2: I was privileged and moved not long ago to attend
Speaker 2: my brother's retirement ceremony from the United States Navy after
Speaker 2: twenty nine and a half years in the submarine service.
Speaker 2: And it was an amazing ceremony, incredibly moving, dignified, and
Speaker 2: in talking to both my brother and a number of
Speaker 2: his recently retired and soon to retire comrades, the the brilliance, expertise, discipline,
Speaker 2: and patriotism among these men was stunning to behold. And
Speaker 2: I'm not sure America understands the incredible asset that we have.
Speaker 2: Having said that our recruiting numbers are terrible, what do
Speaker 2: we as a country need to do to prevent that
Speaker 2: literally existential threat from getting any worse?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we have to get more into high schools.
Speaker 3: We have to get you know, the Navy, I know
Speaker 3: in particular, is trying to, you know, reach out more
Speaker 3: of the army. Recruiting numbers are down. You're seeing unfortunately,
Speaker 3: less family members going. My son's in the Navy right now,
Speaker 3: so it's not become the family business it once was.
Speaker 3: That there was a tremendous amount of veterans and their
Speaker 3: their offspring when into the service. A great question. We've
Speaker 3: got to keep the bar high, though, I don't want
Speaker 3: to lower the bar just just to make a number.
Speaker 3: There's lots of things we could do there, but there's
Speaker 3: tremendous opportunity that the military still does provide. And if
Speaker 3: and again it's just a matter of communication, and and
Speaker 3: and and and kind of caring to all the stuff
Speaker 3: about the military being woke. It's not you go to
Speaker 3: you go to that ship, you go to that stub,
Speaker 3: you go to a battleship. You'll see it's a it's
Speaker 3: a team. What you learn, the life skills you learn
Speaker 3: on that at a very early age, we'll carry you
Speaker 3: for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2: I think it would certainly help too if most of
Speaker 2: our media wasn't cynical at best about military service, but
Speaker 2: conversation for Another Day. Military anist Mike Lyons. Look for
Speaker 2: him on CNN, listen to him here and elsewhere. Mike
Speaker 2: is always great to talk to you.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Becky, Thanks for me