1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: The terrifying moments of Russian missile strikes captured in video 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: circulating online. The target President Zelenski's hometown. But this wasn't 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: a military science. It was innocent families at home when 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: a missile tore a hole through their apartment block. At 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: least six people were killed in the attack, including a 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: ten year old girl, and at least seventy five injured. 7 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: The Russian Defense minister making it clear it's increasing attacks 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: in response to a dramatic drone strike in Moscow Sunday 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: hitting a building housing government offices. 10 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 2: So the Ukrainians hit some government offices in Moscow, putin 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: hits back at Zelensky's hometown with just residential apartment buildings, 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: killing people, and says stated out loud, Yeah, this is 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: retaliation for doing that. Let's get an update on Ukraine, 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: that situation and everything else going on with the military 15 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: analyst Mike Leins, who served the United States military in 16 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: a variety of capacities through the years and it now 17 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: respected military analyst for CNN, among other places. Hello, Mike, 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 2: how are. 19 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 3: You Kiwani guy? It's great to be back with you 20 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 3: that back. 21 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 2: And forth aside saw you on CNN the of the 22 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: day talking about the counter offensive and how it's showing 23 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: some signs of life and maybe they've found a weak 24 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 2: spot in the Russian line. What's that story all about? 25 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think there's a little 26 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 3: kink in the armor here of the Russians of this 27 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: long Maginer line they've created on this front here eight 28 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 3: hundred kilometers and for Ukraine to break through, they have 29 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 3: to concentrate their forces, and it appears so far that 30 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 3: they've they've gotten through like the first level of what 31 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: are two more defensive lines that they have to get through, 32 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 3: these mine fere minefields as well as trenches. And by 33 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 3: taking these two towns, Robiinsk is one of them, I 34 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 3: know that office appreciate. Within that oblast, they now can 35 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 3: create a shock effect and try to break through and 36 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 3: you know, get to the sea os off and you know, 37 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 3: separate this the southern theater for example, separate Russian troops 38 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 3: that it would be to their west, get them to surrender, 39 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 3: and now they threaten Crimea. So they appear to be 40 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 3: breaking through here. We still don't know whether or not 41 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 3: that they've made any more progress from what I've read. 42 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 3: Now they've seem to be somewhat stalled, but if they 43 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 3: can hold off another thirty days when abrams tanks arrive 44 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 3: and other combat equipment arise, they might have a chance. 45 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: Mike is non experts, we've been somewhat surprised at how 46 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: effective the mining of landscape has been in holding the 47 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: Ukrainian counteroffensive back. What's the state of the art in 48 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: mind clearing equipment technology. 49 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 3: It's difficult. There's a couple of things. There's something called 50 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: a myclick that allows you to fire like a pressurized 51 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 3: charge over an area. So let's think about it as 52 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 3: a missile that blows up that The mines then are 53 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 3: blown up because they've become pressurized and they stimulate a 54 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: vehicle running over them. But with the Russians have done, 55 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 3: they stacked mines two and three deep in some areas here, 56 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 3: so that Michlik that that mind clearing technology is not 57 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: going to work. So the second part to that is 58 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 3: things that fit in front mind clearing tanks that go 59 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 3: in front of the infantry and their way out front 60 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 3: that looked to kind of scoop them up and push 61 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 3: them forward so they don't clear the tracks, they don't 62 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 3: make any kind of damage that way, that way is 63 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 3: a much slower they get the same kind of progress there. 64 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 3: The Ukraine military needs more of that kind of equipment. 65 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: They'll use the mich looks, they'll use those mind clearing 66 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 3: charges in some level, but what's going to really help 67 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 3: them is both the mind clearing equipment in front of 68 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 3: tanks as well as bridging equipment, because the second thing 69 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: you could do is put a bridge over it and 70 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: use that as a way to get through a minefield. 71 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: As well. 72 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: On that other thing you were talking about cutting the 73 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: Russian forces in two I was watching me on TV 74 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: and you had the arrows and the map and everything 75 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 2: like that, and I was trying to picture, like how 76 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: many Russian forces would they be able to put in 77 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: a position of having the surrender. How many thousands are 78 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: we talking about or is it a thousand? 79 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, probably thirty to twenty to thirty thousands along that. Yeah, No, 80 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 3: it would be huge, And it's something I'm sure that 81 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 3: you know the the Ukraine's not talking about because that's 82 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 3: how many troops are in that area defending because Crimea 83 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 3: is so important to them, and so they when the 84 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 3: dam was blown a few weeks ago, that that kind 85 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 3: of moved that line up further let's say east, right 86 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: up up the Nepro River in a certain way, because 87 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 3: the quickest way would have been to just afford the 88 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 3: river there and go right for Crimea there. But now 89 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 3: they've kind of moved it up and so they're now 90 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 3: they've trapped potentially more Russians on the other side of 91 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 3: that of that the salient there. So again, then if 92 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 3: they can break through and create this boundary, the race 93 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 3: is on too, the Sea of as Office. That is 94 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: what I was saying yesterday, because if they can do 95 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 3: that and create that kind of spot, they turned their 96 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 3: weapons now to the west, and they've got thirty thousand 97 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 3: Russian troops that they can easily take out or make 98 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: them surrender. 99 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: Mike, what do you hear about when various weapons and 100 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 2: weapons systems might be brought to bear, from tanks to 101 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 2: F sixteens. 102 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 3: So that's the issue. Because the tanks won't get there 103 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 3: until September, they're still going to have to be some 104 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 3: training on them. They'll make an impact when they get 105 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 3: to the battlefield. But they also the Ukraine still have 106 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 3: got to fight combined arms. They're still fighting very serily. 107 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 3: You saw the video the other day of a BMP 108 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 3: or an infantry fighting vehicle going into a trench and 109 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 3: then exposing its entire bottom half and then coming back out. 110 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: They've got to fight combined arms, they got to bring 111 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 3: an engineer with them at the same time, they've got 112 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 3: to be shooting artillery. That's what's confusing me right now 113 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 3: is I don't see the Russian artillery firing up that 114 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 3: first defensive mindfields and minefield is only good if it's 115 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 3: covered up. So again, it's going to be a couple 116 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 3: of months before the tanks get there. I don't see 117 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 3: the F sixteen is getting there for nine or ten months. 118 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 3: I mean that's going to be almost a year. And 119 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 3: the F sixteens that are going are you twenty years old, 120 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 3: don't have the same technology. The war could be over 121 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 3: by then if if you know the Ukrainian's kind of 122 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 3: play this right, I. 123 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 2: Know you've been studying this kind of stuff your whole life, 124 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: so you'd be a good guy to ask. Just reading 125 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: military history myself, whether it's battles in the Civil War, 126 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: World War two, or whatever, and then watching and modern times, 127 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 2: how often do plans ever work out? It seems like 128 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: it's just constant like throwing the plan out the window, 129 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 2: impro improvis improvising after you know, it's the you know, 130 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: the other side gets to say sort of deal or 131 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: you have a plan, but they get to react to 132 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: certain way. Is it Is it as much improvation improvise 133 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 2: improvising as it looks. 134 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 3: Like it is. And it's about tactical improvation improvisation of 135 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 3: you know, whether something happens something tactically like you get 136 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 3: you know, get a chemical attack or something. We call 137 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 3: it getting slimed, let's say. But you mean think about 138 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 3: it in the Grant scheme. You know, the D Day 139 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 3: invasion was a plan that went off very well. That 140 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 3: if that has failed, you know, the world's a different 141 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 3: place today. But in the same token, operation market Garden 142 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 3: doesn't work. Uh, you know, we didn't get the three 143 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 3: bridges there. That counter offensive did not work and that 144 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 3: set us back a few months. And then on the 145 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: other side of the coin determined the Battle of the Balls, 146 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 3: their counter offensive into Belgium and World War two doesn't work. 147 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: But the US and Allied counter offensive back ends up working. 148 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 3: So I think you got to look at strategy versus tactics. Right, Strategically, 149 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 3: what Ukraine has to do is cut Russian forces in half? 150 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: And so where do they cut them in half? The 151 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 3: tactical decision and if they can pick the right spot 152 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 3: and get through it, they might be able to be 153 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 3: more successful. 154 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: Jack, Before I make a transition, do you have another 155 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,119 Speaker 2: Ukraine matter? Okay, we're talking to military analyst Mike Lions 156 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: and Mike a quick personal note and then onto my question. 157 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: I was privileged and moved not long ago to attend 158 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: my brother's retirement ceremony from the United States Navy after 159 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: twenty nine and a half years in the submarine service. 160 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: And it was an amazing ceremony, incredibly moving, dignified, and 161 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: in talking to both my brother and a number of 162 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: his recently retired and soon to retire comrades, the the brilliance, expertise, discipline, 163 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 2: and patriotism among these men was stunning to behold. And 164 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 2: I'm not sure America understands the incredible asset that we have. 165 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: Having said that our recruiting numbers are terrible, what do 166 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: we as a country need to do to prevent that 167 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 2: literally existential threat from getting any worse? 168 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we have to get more into high schools. 169 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 3: We have to get you know, the Navy, I know 170 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 3: in particular, is trying to, you know, reach out more 171 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 3: of the army. Recruiting numbers are down. You're seeing unfortunately, 172 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 3: less family members going. My son's in the Navy right now, 173 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 3: so it's not become the family business it once was. 174 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 3: That there was a tremendous amount of veterans and their 175 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 3: their offspring when into the service. A great question. We've 176 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 3: got to keep the bar high, though, I don't want 177 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 3: to lower the bar just just to make a number. 178 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 3: There's lots of things we could do there, but there's 179 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 3: tremendous opportunity that the military still does provide. And if 180 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 3: and again it's just a matter of communication, and and 181 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: and and and kind of caring to all the stuff 182 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 3: about the military being woke. It's not you go to 183 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 3: you go to that ship, you go to that stub, 184 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 3: you go to a battleship. You'll see it's a it's 185 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 3: a team. What you learn, the life skills you learn 186 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 3: on that at a very early age, we'll carry you 187 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 3: for the rest of your life. 188 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 2: I think it would certainly help too if most of 189 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: our media wasn't cynical at best about military service, but 190 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 2: conversation for Another Day. Military anist Mike Lyons. Look for 191 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: him on CNN, listen to him here and elsewhere. Mike 192 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: is always great to talk to you. 193 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 3: Thank you, Becky, Thanks for me