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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The twisted murderer who kidnapped

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Speaker 1: and killed an eleven year old girl, Audrey Cunningham, takes

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Speaker 1: a play deal what happened to Audrey. I'm Nancy Grayson.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

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Speaker 1: here at Crime Stories and on Serious XM one eleven.

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Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this.

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Speaker 2: At this time, I sadly announced that Audrey's body was

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Speaker 2: located at the Trinity River on the US Highway fifty nine.

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Speaker 2: As a result of today's developments, I will just continue

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Speaker 2: the Amber Alert for Audrey, and I want to thank

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Speaker 2: DPS Department of Public Safety for all their help in

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Speaker 2: this alert. The information that we have gathered in this

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Speaker 2: criminal investigation is substantial. My heart aches with this news,

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Speaker 2: and I expressed with my deepest sympathies and condolences to

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Speaker 2: everyone who who knew, who cared for and loved Audrey.

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Speaker 2: The Sheriff's office we will continue to process the evidence

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Speaker 2: that has been gathered to ensure that the justice for Audrey.

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Speaker 1: And you can hear the Polk County Sheriff Byron Lyons

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Speaker 1: voice cracking after he and his whole team volunteers you

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Speaker 1: name it tried to find Audrey alive. That did not happen.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to what else Shriff Byron Allons has

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Speaker 1: to say.

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Speaker 2: Thank you to Trinity River Authority following the water levels

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Speaker 2: so that the divers could reach the area, could reach

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Speaker 2: areas of interest. Due to the lowering, we were able

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Speaker 2: to contact tra Trinity River Authority. They slowed down the

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Speaker 2: outflow from the reservoir and it allowed the water to

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Speaker 2: go down and her body was discovered there in the water.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not gonna say whether it was Harris County

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Speaker 2: or Montgomery County or equoser. It was a conglomeration of

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Speaker 2: a lot of love and law enforcement networking together that

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Speaker 2: discovered her.

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Speaker 1: I've done a lot of dive searches, but never have

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Speaker 1: I seen water actually lowered in a body of water

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Speaker 1: in order to find a body. It's the body of

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Speaker 1: an eleven year old girl, Audrey Cunningham found. Joining me

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Speaker 1: in all star panel to makes sense of what we

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Speaker 1: know now, including a man that predicted the defendant would

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Speaker 1: attack again after the defendant attacked him, did he go

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Speaker 1: to jail? Hell no, that's why he was out to

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Speaker 1: murder Audrey. Yeah, that victim joining us, but first to

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Speaker 1: Bob Price, joining us Associate editor, senior news contributor. You

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Speaker 1: can find it at Breitbart dot com. Bob, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Tell me about the discovery of

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Speaker 1: this child. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: On to discuss this horrific situation. So Sheriff Lines announced

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Speaker 3: they had recovered the body of this eleven year old

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Speaker 3: and this little girl. Just an absolutely tragic event. The

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Speaker 3: sheriff had taken mister McDougall around to various places he

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Speaker 3: had been that day. One of the places that he

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Speaker 3: took the Sheriff's department to was that bridge where they

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Speaker 3: found Audrey's body near one of the bridge pillars underneath

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Speaker 3: the bridge.

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Speaker 1: Stop right there, Bob Price, Number one. You think I

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Speaker 1: believe one thing that POC says technical legal term, piece

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Speaker 1: of crap. One thing he says, he's going to twist

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Speaker 1: this every way he can to his benefit. Hey, Bob Price,

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Speaker 1: when he was driving the police arounded, he say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's where I put her body.

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Speaker 3: So what the sheriff explained is that he just took

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Speaker 3: them to places that he said he had been that day.

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Speaker 3: Kind of accounting for your time, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: Is it true this guy backed into a tree and

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Speaker 1: left and identifying mark from his bumper on the tree

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Speaker 1: when he was disposing of an eleven year old girl's body.

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Speaker 1: I think that's how they figured it out. They find

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Speaker 1: the backpack, they see that in mark on a tree,

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Speaker 1: and they know, well.

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Speaker 3: This is the place where the body was found. That

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Speaker 3: is about five miles down the river from where the

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Speaker 3: backpack was found. But yes, he reportedly did strike a

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Speaker 3: tree with his suburban and they were able to match

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Speaker 3: what I've been told, tire tracks and his bumper marks

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Speaker 3: to that location where the backpack was found, and then

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Speaker 3: the body was found lower down the river, and the

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Speaker 3: current's moving very swiftly there. This is just below the

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Speaker 3: lake Livingston Dam, and the water is high in the

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Speaker 3: lake right now, so they've been releasing a lot of water.

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Speaker 3: The current's been flowing rapid and that's why they were

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Speaker 3: able to lower the level of the lake, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 3: the river, in order to slow the currents down enough

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Speaker 3: that the divers could get in to where they suspected

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Speaker 3: her body would be end Sure enough, they've found us there.

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Speaker 3: I asked Sheriff Yons yesterday if there was any evidence

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Speaker 3: that the body had been weighted down or in any

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Speaker 3: other way rigged where it would stay underwater, and he

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Speaker 3: declined to answer that commed. He did not say no,

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Speaker 3: which I would think he would say no if that

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Speaker 3: wasn't the case, But he declined to answer that.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask you something, Bob Price, what is so

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Speaker 1: unique about his bumper that does he have a hitch

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Speaker 1: on it that they could identify the mark on the

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Speaker 1: tree and match it to his bumper.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure exactly how they matched that. It could

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Speaker 3: be that there was maybe evidence of the tree on

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Speaker 3: the bumper, something like that.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at it right now. There's got to be

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Speaker 1: something unique about that bumper. Maybe there's some paint on

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Speaker 1: the tree that will match up. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can forensically identify a type of paint from a

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Speaker 1: car and trace it to the year, the model, the

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Speaker 1: make the works, and then go back to his vehicle

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Speaker 1: and find, if you take the time, forensic evidence of

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Speaker 1: treat residue on the bumper. That said, joining me now.

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Speaker 1: In addition to Bob Price, Associate editor, senior news contributor Breitbart,

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Speaker 1: longtime friend and colleague, the gold Standard Mark Class is

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Speaker 1: joining me. Mark Class, founder of Class Kids Foundation at

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Speaker 1: classkids dot org, has devoted his life to finding missing

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Speaker 1: children after his beautiful daughter Polly was kidnapped and murdered.

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Speaker 1: Made that perp rot in hell Mark Class. Just so

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Speaker 1: many thoughts colliding in my head right now, because when

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Speaker 1: Bob Price, our investigative reporter joined is speaking, he's talking

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Speaker 1: about the currents and the cold water and her body

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Speaker 1: under a bridge. All I can think about is this

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Speaker 1: little girl's body going along with the current. Did probably

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Speaker 1: face down in that cold, cold water till it lodged

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Speaker 1: under a bridge, an eleven year old girl Mark Class.

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Speaker 1: Let it rip well.

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Speaker 4: Listen, Nancy.

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Speaker 5: Before he lowered her body or tossed her body into

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Speaker 5: the river, he ex exposed this child to the worst

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Speaker 5: possible nightmare that anyone could even envision. I mean, she

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Speaker 5: was taken to this place, she was murdered by this guy.

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Speaker 5: She was most likely sexually assaulted by this guy, and

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Speaker 5: he went on with his day after this. This is

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Speaker 5: a guy that has a criminal history, somebody that is

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Speaker 5: known to have caused harm, yet he was given access

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Speaker 5: to this child. I don't understand this dynamic at all.

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Speaker 5: I don't understand what the priorities were with this little

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Speaker 5: girl's family that this guy could even have access to

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Speaker 5: then commit the horrendous and dastardly deeds that he did.

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Speaker 3: It's absolutely obscene.

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Speaker 1: Hey, who's the speaking.

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Speaker 5: It is obscene?

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Speaker 3: That was Bob.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, hey, Bob, Bob Price. I was just about

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Speaker 1: to go to you. Bob Price investigated reporter joining us

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Speaker 1: from Breitbart, Bob something, and I want to go back

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Speaker 1: to mark class on this. But Bob Price, Yes, No,

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Speaker 1: isn't it true that the defendant in this case, Don

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Speaker 1: Stephen mcdougle, aged forty two, was spotted at a gas

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Speaker 1: station around nine am and at that time he did

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Speaker 1: not have Audrey with him. Is that correct?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Video evidence has proven that up to be true. According

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Speaker 3: to what we've heard, it's just absolutely obscene that this

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Speaker 3: man who was within a thousand yards of this little

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Speaker 3: girl at any time. This father is very evident, the

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Speaker 3: man that's covered with neo Nazi tattoos, Arian brotherhood tattoos, ss.

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Speaker 1: A Nazi swastika for Pete's sake, yes, all of these

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Speaker 1: kinds of things, and in pictures he's doing the one

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Speaker 1: too ab Arian brotherhood. I mean it's like a does

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Speaker 1: a piano have to fall on your head to know

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Speaker 1: this guy is bad? Stay away from him. And I'm

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Speaker 1: following up, Bob Price, thank you for confirming that, Mark Klass,

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Speaker 1: you said this and chills, arms and legs. He just

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Speaker 1: went on about his day like nothing had happened. There.

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Speaker 1: He is filling up with gas after he's been driving

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Speaker 1: around and around and around with this girl's body, probably

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Speaker 1: in the car to find a place to dump her body.

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Speaker 1: And look, he's a sex offender. He's already played guilty

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Speaker 1: to trying to have sex, taking the underwear and the

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Speaker 1: pj's off a little girl, getting in bed with her.

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Speaker 1: How did he get access to another little.

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Speaker 6: Girl, Nancy? He showed up at a donut shop across

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Speaker 6: from the courthouse, which is a mile from the jail

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Speaker 6: the next morning. Talk about nonchalant.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Mark Class, what you said just before Lanta jumped in,

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Lanta Shadwick, high profile lawyer out of Texas

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Speaker 1: who has made her way out of the courtroom to

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Speaker 1: join us. Former Harris County judge and prosecutor Atlantashadwick dot

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Speaker 1: Com also added, as she's right, Mark Class, The guy

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Speaker 1: didn't just go for gas. He was propped up at

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Speaker 1: a donut shop. This is after he is disposed of

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Speaker 1: an eleven year old girl's body in that cold water

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Speaker 1: mark class.

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Speaker 5: Well, this man has absolutely no value for any life

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Speaker 5: other than his own, or he wouldn't have been able

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Speaker 5: to do that. His conscience would have stopped him. He

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Speaker 5: has no conscience. He's just a killing machine who, for

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Speaker 5: some inexplicable reason, was out and about with an eleven

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Speaker 5: year old girl. I don't know what anybody was actually

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Speaker 5: expecting the results of this union to be, but my god,

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Speaker 5: I'm my god. If you could only turn back time.

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Speaker 7: And talk about detached.

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Speaker 6: He goes to a donut shop, which.

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Speaker 8: Is right across from the courthouse. You can throw a

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Speaker 8: ball and hit the judge's window. I mean, if down

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Speaker 8: the street from the jail, what kind of narcissist or

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Speaker 8: detached individual is this?

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Speaker 6: You're going to go downtown where the cops are.

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Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Gray, an eleven year old girl,

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Speaker 1: Audrey Cunningham kidnapped and killed. Why not the death penalty?

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Speaker 1: From what we understand, officials say that there was evidence

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Speaker 1: don Stephen McDougall, although he was charged with capital murder,

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Speaker 1: got a deal for life without parole because, as they say,

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Speaker 1: intellectual and developmental disabilities. In any event, what happened to Audrey?

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Speaker 1: Why was he allowed to be around eleven year old Audrey?

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Speaker 1: And he's out having a donut Mark Class A donut.

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Speaker 1: He's pumping his gas after driving. Don't you know he

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Speaker 1: went in all these acutest routes trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: where to hide this girl's body, this little eleven year

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Speaker 1: old girl with that big smile, and now he's got

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Speaker 1: to fill up his gas take and get a donut.

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Speaker 5: Really well, I don't know what even to say about

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Speaker 5: something like this, Nancy. I mean, one has to look

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Speaker 5: back to this guy's criminal history and to see how

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Speaker 5: he's been better in his medical history, and to see

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Speaker 5: how he's been diagnosed. I've spent my life trying to

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Speaker 5: keep people like this away from little children. You put

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Speaker 5: out the information, you educate people, you raise awareness, you

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Speaker 5: get laws passed. But still there are families that are

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Speaker 5: willing to allow something like this, allow a known monster

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Speaker 5: to have access, unfettered access, apparently to their little children.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what anybody expects the outcomes of these

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Speaker 4: kinds of situations to be. It's just it's unbelievable, it's uncivilized,

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Speaker 4: it's it's nightmarriage. It's spawned from the devil himself.

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Speaker 1: Have you looked at this guy's tattoos. I'm not trashing tattoos,

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Speaker 1: don't care. You want to ink up your body, have

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Speaker 1: at it. But when you put swastikas an Arian Brotherhood

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Speaker 1: tattoos all over your body, you're like a walking billboard.

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Speaker 1: You might as well walk down Third Avenue in New

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Speaker 1: York City with a sign that says I am a

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Speaker 1: piece of crap. Stay away from me. I mean, who

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Speaker 1: puts a Nazi swastika on their arm in playing view?

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Speaker 1: And it insists on wearing the sleeveless wife beater t shirts.

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Speaker 1: He's proud of it. Jump in.

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Speaker 9: He's walking billboard for the penitentiary system if we you

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Speaker 9: know to your point? And I think Mark is an

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Speaker 9: absolute warrior for children around this country. He speaks with authenticity,

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Speaker 9: and when we think about this guy being out on

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Speaker 9: the streets, it's just horrendous that he would have had

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Speaker 9: access to this small child.

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Speaker 1: Guess what I'm holding in my hand right now, guys,

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Speaker 1: a wrap sheet. It goes all the wait back to

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, possession of pot Cleveland, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and two, Assault of a public servant, don't know what

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Speaker 1: that was two thousand and three, drugs two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: assault two thousand and three, more marijuana two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: Evading arrest two thousand and six. Theft keeps on going

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Speaker 1: and meth. Now he's onto meth, and they say pot's

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Speaker 1: not a gateway drug. Okay, whatever, two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 1: Enticing child. There you go, there you go. That should

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Speaker 1: have been a child molestation, Church felony. More aggravated assault,

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Speaker 1: unauthorized use of vehicle that I guarantee you that was

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Speaker 1: planned down from a theft by receiving stolen property being

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Speaker 1: a car twenty fourteen, theft of property, reckless driving, assault

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Speaker 1: for bodily injury, harassment twenty three, resisting arrest. You know,

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Speaker 1: hold on just a moment. Why am I reading the

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Speaker 1: rap shape? I have a victim with me right now.

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Speaker 1: Elick Brian the third who was assaulted by this perv

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Speaker 1: Don Steven McDougall in two thousand and ten. Elec Bryan

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Speaker 1: the third, what happened?

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Speaker 7: Well, he started working at.

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Speaker 10: The place I was at, which was where I was

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Speaker 10: We worked in an oil change place at Crosby, Texas. Yep,

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Speaker 10: And some friends brought him over to my house and

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Speaker 10: he got a little bludger it when he was drunk

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Speaker 10: and started making comments and actions towards one of their wives.

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Speaker 1: Well well wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, Eleck

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Speaker 1: Brian the third, what kind of comment did he make

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Speaker 1: to a woman?

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Speaker 7: Oh, he was basically he was grabbing her and hitting

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Speaker 7: on her, like he was trying to do inappropriate things

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Speaker 7: with her.

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Speaker 1: Have sex with her pretty much, Yes, ma'am. Did he

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Speaker 1: touch any of her private parts? Grabber in your breast?

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Speaker 1: What was he saying?

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Speaker 7: He was just talking. I don't know if he's where

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Speaker 7: he touched her because I wasn't that part of it.

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Speaker 7: But she would come out and said that he was

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Speaker 7: groping her and that he was saying lewd things about

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Speaker 7: her and how he wanted to have sex with her.

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Speaker 1: Sure he didn't say I want to have sex with you.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he says something along the lines of I

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Speaker 1: want to f you. I gave up cursing, so sorry

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Speaker 1: about that, Elie Brian the third. And this is in

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Speaker 1: a public place with a group of women and men around.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, this was at my house.

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Speaker 1: So, Elick, if he would do that in front of

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Speaker 1: grown men and women grope a woman, what would he

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Speaker 1: do with an eleven year old little girl all alone

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Speaker 1: in his suv or all alone in her home and

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Speaker 1: defend herself. She couldn't defend herself. And in her mind,

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Speaker 1: this is daddy's friend. You know how hard it is

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Speaker 1: to get child molestation victims to speak out. They don't

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Speaker 1: even understand what's happened to them. And this is daddy's friend.

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Speaker 1: What's she gonna do? She probably thinks, well, daddy knows.

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Speaker 7: And it is that they went on vacations together.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what how do you know this? Please tell me

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Speaker 1: what you know, Elick. Brian the third, There is.

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Speaker 7: A Facebook pooch called Justice for Audrey Cunningham and there

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Speaker 7: are pictures on there of them in a vehicle, Dawn

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Speaker 7: and Audorie and a group of family members going on

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Speaker 7: vacation to Florida back.

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Speaker 1: To you getting attacked. So the woman comes out and says,

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Speaker 1: this guy is groping me. Then what happens, Well.

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Speaker 7: Her husband tries to fight him. Then I stop him

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Speaker 7: and we just throw him out of the house.

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Speaker 1: You don't, right, the husband better try to fight him.

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Speaker 1: If David Lynch didn't punch the daylights out of him,

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Speaker 1: if it were me, we'd be looking at a divorce

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Speaker 1: lawyer right now. So the husband goes in, he tries

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Speaker 1: to take a swing at McDougall. You break it up,

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Speaker 1: and then what happened?

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Speaker 7: So he basically just I just forced him out of

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Speaker 7: the house thumb he's got to go okay, and you

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Speaker 7: know he's beingligerent with me at this time. And I

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Speaker 7: pushed him out the door. And then a little time

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Speaker 7: goes by and I heard somebody beating on the door.

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Speaker 11: It's him.

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Speaker 7: He has a knife and he stabbed it at my

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Speaker 7: door trying to get back in the house.

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Speaker 1: Then what happened.

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Speaker 7: I grabbed my shotgun and I open up the front

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Speaker 7: door and he comes at me with the knife and

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Speaker 7: I hit him in the face with the gun with

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Speaker 7: the barrel of the gun and give me back out

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Speaker 7: the door, and we call the cops.

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Speaker 1: He came at you with a knife.

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Speaker 11: Yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: Then what happened?

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Speaker 7: Like I said, I hit him in the face with

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Speaker 7: the barrel of the gun and pushed him out and

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Speaker 7: slammed the door and called the cops.

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Speaker 1: Well, so far you're the only one that has gotten

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Speaker 1: justice with this guy, Don Stephen McDougall. And it seems

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Speaker 1: like even the barrel end of a gun didn't teach

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Speaker 1: him a lesson, because here he is with this eleven

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Speaker 1: year old girl. Doctor Kendall Crowns helped me out. Guys

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Speaker 1: with me. Renowned chief medical eg examin or Tarrant County lecturer,

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Speaker 1: Texas Christian University Medical School has performed literally thousands of autopsies,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us. Please give

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Speaker 1: me some good news, if there is any good news

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Speaker 1: right now. Forensically, did the cold water help us in

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Speaker 1: any way to determine cood cause of death?

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Speaker 11: The cold water will slow down the decompositional process, so

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Speaker 11: it will preserve injuries better instead of the injuries being

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Speaker 11: obscured by the body decomposing will be kept intact. So

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Speaker 11: in that manner, it'll aid the investigators with the case

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Speaker 11: because there will be west decomposition.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendll Crowns, You've perform so many autopsies. When you

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Speaker 1: see a child like Audrey laying there on your autopsy table,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, are you like me? Sometimes I don't

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Speaker 1: know to cry or be angry or just throw up,

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Speaker 1: just vomit. How do you do it?

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Speaker 11: There's always an emotional component with children, but you have

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Speaker 11: to always say to yourself, you're here to get the answers.

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Speaker 11: You're here to catch those people that have caused this stath,

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Speaker 11: or for that matter, to exonerate people that have been

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Speaker 11: blamed for it. So you're there to get answers, and

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Speaker 11: you can't let your emotions cloud your judgment, are making bias.

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Speaker 1: Ellie Brian the third who was assaulted by this same

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Speaker 1: guy Don Steve McDougall now person of interest suspect in

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Speaker 1: the brutal murder, and I guarantee you the rape. I'm

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Speaker 1: an eleven year old little girl, defenseless. My guess is

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Speaker 1: alone in the car with this guy who is living

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Speaker 1: in a camper in daddy's backyard. You are quoted saying

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Speaker 1: that he came back to your house and started stabbing

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Speaker 1: the door and the tires of the cars. He pulled

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Speaker 1: a knife on you and came at you. Most important,

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Speaker 1: you're not surprised to hear he's involved in Audrey's disappearance.

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Speaker 1: Why do you say that.

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Speaker 4: Not at all?

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Speaker 7: Because it was just a couple of years ago, I

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Speaker 7: saw it on Facebook where somebody was looking for information

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Speaker 7: on him because he was sending lude pictures to their

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Speaker 7: little girl.

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Speaker 1: Dear Lord in Heaven, slow it down, Eb. The third,

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Speaker 1: what did you just say?

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Speaker 7: Somebody had posted on Facebook about him, a picture of

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Speaker 7: him and his name, saying that he was sending lud

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Speaker 7: pictures to live.

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Speaker 1: To their daughters. Mark Class. Does it never end with

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Speaker 1: this guy?

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Speaker 7: Well, I think that's an important point.

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Speaker 5: I mean, this guy is an habitual criminal. This guy

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Speaker 5: has been doing gastardly horrible things his entire life. And

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Speaker 5: exactly where does the prosecutor get off thinking that being

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Speaker 5: light on this guy is somehow going to change it

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Speaker 5: and make it better for the next individual that has

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Speaker 5: to face him. Obviously, this guy has done how many years,

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Speaker 5: over twenty years of criminal activity, NonStop criminal activity, assault,

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Speaker 5: going after little girls, doing all of these horrible things.

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Speaker 5: Yet here he is on the street in a car

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Speaker 5: with a little girl. And who is he. He's daddy's friend,

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Speaker 5: you know what, Nancy, He's daddy's friend until he isn't

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Speaker 5: daddy's friend. He's daddy's friend until he takes her out

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Speaker 5: of the car and starts doing whatever that hell it

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Speaker 5: is that he did to her that made him believe

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Speaker 5: he had to throw her dead body into a river.

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Speaker 5: It's just pure evil. Why is this guy even existing?

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Speaker 5: Why is this guy even on the face of the earth. Certainly,

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Speaker 5: why is this guy in society?

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Speaker 1: I'm about to go to our shrink. Karen ll start

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Speaker 1: joining us out on New York Renown TV radio. Trump

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Speaker 1: expert and consultant Atlanta Shadwick set it up for me.

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Speaker 1: Here is a with this long record. You were a prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: you're a judge. Now you're a high profile lawyer in

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Speaker 1: this jurisdiction, Livingston, Texas. You know what, every time I

401
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Speaker 1: would get a case, it could be a car theft,

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Speaker 1: it could be a nickel bag, it could be any

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Speaker 1: number of things. And if I saw the defendant had

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Speaker 1: a gun, all I could think about was my fiancee Keith,

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Speaker 1: getting murdered, and I would insist on jail time every

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Speaker 1: time I could get it. Why in the h e

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Speaker 1: double l with this guy crawled into a little girl's

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Speaker 1: bed and wrestled off her pajamas and her underwear. Why

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Speaker 1: did he get a cheap plea and walk out free,

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Speaker 1: walk out free?

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Speaker 6: I don't know what they do in Brasouria County, but

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Speaker 6: that won't fly in Pole County, East Texas. I'm just

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Speaker 6: telling you right now.

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Speaker 1: And another thing there he is I have to find

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Speaker 1: out from so Elick Brian the third that this guy

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Speaker 1: is in sending lewd which means his penis. That's what

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Speaker 1: that means, pictures to her daughters on Facebook. He's not

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Speaker 1: even trying to hide it. For Peinte's sake, that was

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Speaker 1: never prosecuted. I'm just hearing about that the first time

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Speaker 1: right now, Lenna.

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Speaker 6: Well, and not only that there was a stabbing in

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Speaker 6: August that he was being held on since I guess

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Speaker 6: Friday with regard to an aggravated assault with a deadly whimp.

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Speaker 6: That's a clue in Texas. That's what we call a clue.

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Speaker 1: That's what I call a similar transaction. David Stanley, Yes, yes, yes, yes, okay.

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, I've set it up for you with me

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00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: as psychologist Karen Stark at Karenstark dot com. That's Karen

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Speaker 1: with a C in case you need her. Karen number one.

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Speaker 1: Who is this guy? Except I hope about to enter

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Speaker 1: death row? But who are these people that kept letting

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Speaker 1: him off over and over and over.

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Speaker 12: It's impossible to understand how he was able to get

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Speaker 12: away with this. It just doesn't make any sense. He

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Speaker 12: is a psychopath. There is no surprise at all that

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Speaker 12: he was out there and committing these crimes and after

436
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 12: young girls. And he's a walking advertisement with those tattoos.

437
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 12: He's telling you who he is.

438
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: Okay, I know all that, no offense, Karen, Sorry, I

439
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: know all that. I can see all that. I'm asking

440
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,479
Speaker 1: you what is he psychologically? Who is he and how

441
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: is he managed to charm people to let him into

442
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: their lives? Nancy?

443
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 12: A textbook case of a psychopath. He has no conscience.

444
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 12: He could be out there eating a whole meal after

445
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 12: he killed her, and yes, you're right, there's no doubt

446
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 12: in my mind that he sexually assaulted her, that he

447
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 12: probably raped this little eleven year old. And he does

448
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 12: not have a conscience, just like Mark said, so it

449
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 12: doesn't mean a thing to him. He could be out

450
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 12: there and then do it again and again and again,

451
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 12: and it just is shocking. I don't have an answer

452
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 12: for why he kept getting off and being.

453
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: Allowed to be out there.

454
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 12: In addition to which, why was he living on the property.

455
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 12: How could somebody not see with the way that he

456
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 12: presented himself that he was a danger to this little

457
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 12: girl and should never have been around her.

458
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: My Price joining me associate editor, senior news contributor bright Bart.

459
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: You can find me at brightbart dot com. Bob Price, again,

460
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I understand that Audrey's

461
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: body was lodged on something underneath a bridge. Is that correct?

462
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 3: Yes, I was down there by the river, and I

463
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 3: noticed a large number of uniformed practical police officers in

464
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 3: the area. There were boats in the area, probably thirty

465
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 3: to forty people right in that one area where the

466
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 3: body was found. And that is unusual based on what

467
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 3: the previous day's activity had been at those locations. So clearly,

468
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 3: sometimes Sunday night, or excuse me that Sunday night, these

469
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 3: days are running together now Tuesday night, Monday night, excuse me.

470
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 3: The Equoshearch people we believe discovered using their sonar, discovered

471
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 3: that her body was lodged down there. The currents were

472
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 3: too strong at that point in time to get her out,

473
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 3: and so the police were there to secure that area.

474
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 3: Later on Tuesday, they declared it to be a crime scene.

475
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 3: As of this morning, we have an update that the

476
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 3: district Attorney, Shelley Sitton, has now filed the capital murder

477
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 3: charges against Donald Don Stephen McDougall. And this is not

478
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 3: the only child he was hanging around with in recent months.

479
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: There's another little girl who's a friend of Audrey's. Audrey

480
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: went to her birthday party, and Stephen McDougall thinks that

481
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 3: going to eleven year old girl's birthday parties is a

482
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: cool thing to do. And these parents, who obviously know

483
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 3: who this guy is, I think it's okay for this

484
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: neo Nazi Aryan nation hate group wearing ketsure. I can't

485
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 3: even describe all this stuff, you know, for them to

486
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:25,719
Speaker 3: bring this thug, this animal to their children's birthday party.

487
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking back Atlanta, Shadwick. I want to

488
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on this. I remember when the twins

489
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: were born, they were very premature, and we have a relative.

490
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: He's perfectly nice, but he smokes. I wouldn't even let

491
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: him come in and visit the twins because he smoked,

492
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: and I didn't want. You know, nicotine can trigger sudden

493
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: infant death syndrome, and it hurt me to do it. Oh,

494
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: I love him, but he couldn't come in. So how

495
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: in the hell do you let a Nazi Arian brother

496
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: around your children.

497
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 6: Well, there's there's two theories to that, not taking up

498
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 6: for him or anything like that.

499
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 11: But there's a social.

500
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 6: Media video post of an individual who's had altercations with McDougall.

501
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 6: And she said he's charming.

502
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 7: He works for you.

503
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 6: You wouldn't believe anything. And then boom, and she was

504
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 6: in the car with them. He took a cell phone

505
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 6: away from her.

506
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: Whoa, whoa, wha, wha, wha wait wait, wait, drinking from

507
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: the far Roger first, Eli Brian the third tells me

508
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: about this guy coming at him with a knife. Nothing happened,

509
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: He walked right out of jail. Then I find out

510
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: he's trying to send we believe pena shots to little girls. Now, well,

511
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: what happened with the woman in the car. Why did

512
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: he take away her cell phone?

513
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 5: I do not know.

514
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 8: She knew she was in trouble, but she I don't

515
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 8: believe charges were filed.

516
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 6: I don't believe she went to the authorities.

517
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: But she's talking.

518
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: Now, why would he take away her cell phone?

519
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 8: That's not good so you can't use it to call

520
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 8: for help.

521
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: Okay, just having a hard time taking all of this.

522
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: In Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Don Stephen McDougall got

523
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: a deal for life without parole because, as they say,

524
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: intellectual and developmental disabilities. Are you kidding me? Because after

525
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: he was charging this, he went on social media and

526
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: declared he did nothing wrong and used every trick in

527
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: the trade to cover his tracks. You know what, this

528
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: guy was intellectual and develop mentally developed enough to cover

529
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: his tracks and have the wherewithal to lie about his

530
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: guilt and innocence. What happened to Audrey mcdonaugh, director Cole

531
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: Case Foundation, former homicide detective, host of a YouTube channel,

532
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: The Interview Ring where I found him? Chris McDonough, I've

533
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: done a lot of water searches and diving myself, but

534
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: I've never seen a body, an entire body of water lowered,

535
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: the water level lowered to get to the victim. Tell

536
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: me how it's done, because you have you know.

537
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 9: That was a great investigative move by law enforcement in

538
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 9: this case, by working with the Trinity River Authority engineers

539
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 9: and basically as we're where, there's a reservoir above and

540
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 9: so what they do is they close the what they're

541
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 9: called lockgates, which controls the flow of water downstream because

542
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 9: everybody knows water goes in one particular direction, and that,

543
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 9: in of itself then opened up an opportunity for the

544
00:32:54,920 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 9: search forensic diving teams. Maybe they've got dogs on boats

545
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 9: where sometimes you can get the scent.

546
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: And remember everybody, dogs can smell your scent, your clothes,

547
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: a dead body, you name it, even in water. Go ahead, Chris, yes, ma'am.

548
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 9: And so whenever you have a body dumped into water,

549
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 9: there are a lot of considerations from an investigative aspect

550
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 9: have to be taken place almost immediately. The first one

551
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 9: question I want to know is did she have Was

552
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 9: she alive when she went into the water.

553
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: Oh, dear Lord in heaven, why don't you make me

554
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: think about that. I haven't even considered that. To doctor

555
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: Kindle Crowns, let's follow up on what Chris mcdunna just said,

556
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: Crown's chief medical examiner, Tirett County, this jurisdiction, Texas, Doctor

557
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: Kittle Crowns in a nutshell, no Latin phrases, no medical terms.

558
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: How do you determine and if this child was alive

559
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: when she was put in the water.

560
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 11: So usually when an individual drowned, there will be changes

561
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 11: in the body that she can find, which includes uh

562
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 11: fluid on the lungs called pomery edema. They will often

563
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 11: swallow a lot of water into their stomach, so you

564
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 11: look for that. Those two are the main criteria for

565
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 11: looking for a drowning.

566
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: You're saying, doctor kimmel Kraus, to tell somebody drowned alive,

567
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: they're putting the water alive. You'd find pulmonary edema. I

568
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: thought that was water around the heart.

569
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 11: Water around the heart would be in the paracardial factors

570
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 11: of spects surrounding the heart. But you wouldn't see any

571
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 11: water in the heart. You'd see water in the.

572
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: Lung water or fluid. You mean lake water, late water,

573
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: lake water? Okay, just question, why did you say she'd

574
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: have pulmonary edema? Ay? What is that? Two? When you

575
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: so easily said she'd have late water in her lungs?

576
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 11: Well, because if you're alive and you're thrown into the water,

577
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 11: when you're alive, you'll be gasping and inhaling the water,

578
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 11: so you would pull that into your lungs and into

579
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 11: your stomach or into your airways. And into your stomach.

580
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 11: You would find that in the autopsy.

581
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: How do you examine the lungs to determine there's water

582
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: and how do you well, I mean too into still

583
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: equals four. How do you determine that water was from

584
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: the lake or do you really even have to?

585
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 11: So you can do it with the autopsy, the lungs

586
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 11: will be heavy and full of fluid, and then on

587
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 11: histology or microscopic examination you can look for debris from

588
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 11: the lake water in the ways.

589
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 1: Yes, debris from the lake water. How do you get

590
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: the water in any debris therein out of the lungs

591
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: in order to analyze.

592
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 11: It, Well, you wouldn't get it out. You would actually

593
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 11: take sections of the lung at autopsy that then would

594
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 11: be processed and turned into microscopic sections to look out

595
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 11: under the microscope, and that debris would still be there

596
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 11: because it would be entrapped in the airway.

597
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: My price is joining me investigative reporter, Associate editor, senior

598
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: needs contributor Breitbart Bob, I know that there was a

599
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: recreational lake. Is she found in the lake or is

600
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: she found in the river that feeds into and out

601
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: of the lake.

602
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 3: So Lake Livingston is the second largest lake in Texas,

603
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,439
Speaker 3: and she was found below the dam in the Trinity River.

604
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 3: The lake is a contributing waterway to the Trinity River,

605
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 3: about five miles downstream from where the dam is and

606
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 3: from where the backpack was found. So it's still unclear

607
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 3: at this time if she entered the water or was

608
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: placed in the water near the dam and floated downstream

609
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 3: and became entangled in the bulk in the pilings of

610
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 3: the bridge, or if McDougall, because he said he went

611
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 3: to that bridge that day that area, did McDougall place

612
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 3: her there and trap her in that area where her

613
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,720
Speaker 3: body would, hopefully, on his part, never be found.

614
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: Mark Klass joining me, founder of Class Kids Foundation class

615
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: kids dot org. Mark, let me talk to you about

616
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: the defendant. You've dealt with so many child killers. Do

617
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 1: you think this guy intentionally put her in the river

618
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: so her body would travel far from the disposal spot?

619
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 5: Yeah?

620
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 12: I do.

621
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 5: I mean, I think he was trying to disappear her.

622
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 5: I don't think there's any question about that. But I wonder,

623
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 5: listening to this guy's history and listening to what this

624
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 5: guy's been allowed to do, if this little girl ever

625
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 5: had a chance. I mean the minute this guy stepped

626
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 5: on that property and was allowed to stay on the property.

627
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 5: I think that this child was doomed. And I think

628
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 5: that the supervising adults around her should have understood and

629
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 5: realized that, and they didn't. They failed their child in

630
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 5: the worst possible way. It's absolutely unbelievable. Who lets with

631
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 5: Neil Nazi live on your property? A Neil Nazi lets

632
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 5: a Neil Nazi live on their property, particularly somebody that's

633
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 5: got the uniform that proudly wears the swasti because it

634
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 5: proudly carries his criminal history that looks forward to more

635
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 5: Mayhem and more mayhem. And it's always escalating, Nancy, these

636
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 5: things always escalate. And at the end, and we talked

637
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 5: about this hundreds of times, at the end, there's a

638
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 5: dead little girl or a dead little boy and we

639
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 5: all go, well, gee, how could this have happened? Well,

640
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 5: sometimes it's inevitable, you know.

641
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: Mark, You're right, inevitable. I feel like Audrey never had

642
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: a chance. The twisted murderer who kidnapped and killed an

643
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: eleven year old girl, Audrey Cunningham, takes a play deal.

644
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: Why not the death penalty? From what we understand. Officials

645
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: say that there was evidence. Don Stephen McDougall, although he

646
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: was charged with capital murder, got a deal for life

647
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: without parole because, as they say, intellectual and developmental disabilities. Again,

648
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: a child disappearing related to a route to school is overwhelming.

649
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: The evidence reveals so much intent to commit a heinous act.

650
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: Sometime there just ain't no justice. Goodbye friend,