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Speaker 4: Hey Daniel, where are you recording the podcast from These

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Speaker 4: Days Today?

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Speaker 1: I'm in my office at the university.

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Speaker 4: Huh, kind of disappointed. Wanted you to be like at

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Speaker 4: the control center of the lec or right next to

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Speaker 4: where the particles collide, kind of like a sportscaster.

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Speaker 1: Nothing so glamorous, But.

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Speaker 4: I may paint a picture for us. What does your

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Speaker 4: office look like? Is it like in a dark dungeon

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Speaker 4: or is it at the top of the in a

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Speaker 4: penthouse at the corner office.

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Speaker 1: You know, something in between. I've got a nice window

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Speaker 1: here with a view outside of the southern California landscape.

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Speaker 1: But it's not like the biggest office on the floor.

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Speaker 1: We've got some real big shots around here.

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Speaker 4: You're more of a metium shot, small shot.

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Speaker 1: I'm a just right shot.

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Speaker 4: Hey, you're a podcast shot. Now. Is everything in your

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Speaker 4: office super organized or are there like huge stacks of

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Speaker 4: papers everywhere?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm not the kind of person who's at risk

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Speaker 1: for dying because his desk collapse under a huge tower

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Speaker 1: of papers. But it's not exactly like a well organized

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Speaker 1: museum or anything. It looks lived in, you know.

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Speaker 4: I think lived in is code for messy. I don't

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Speaker 4: know what do you call something that's like halfway between

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Speaker 4: being neat and messy.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm a physicist, so I would call it a

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Speaker 1: phase transition. It's like a melting point.

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Speaker 4: You're kind of like a slush like a slushy.

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Speaker 1: I'm hoping that if they crank of the ac maybe

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Speaker 1: my office will organize itself into a crystal.

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Speaker 4: And deal freeze to death. Also pre serve for future generations.

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Speaker 1: But at least I'll look neat doing it.

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Speaker 4: And you'll be pretty cool too. Hi, I'm Poor. Hey,

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Speaker 4: I'm a cartoonist and the co author of Frequently Asked

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Speaker 4: Questions about the Universe.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a professor at UC Irvine and

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Speaker 1: a particle physicist who works at the large hate John Collider,

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Speaker 1: And I like to think of myself as just messy.

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Speaker 4: Enough, messy enough for what before not be neat.

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Speaker 1: Messy enough to have that lucky stroke of insight, you know,

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Speaker 1: when that pile of notes you took three years ago

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Speaker 1: at a seminar just sort of falls into your view

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Speaker 1: and provides that crucial piece of information to unlock the

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Speaker 1: puzzle you're working on. If you're too neat and organized

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Speaker 1: and everything's tucked away and you never have that sort

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Speaker 1: of serendipity.

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Speaker 4: I see, and I assume that because you're a scientist,

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Speaker 4: you have this tested, right, is a scientifically proven like

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Speaker 4: you've done the control studies where you're really neat and

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Speaker 4: more missy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a bunch of other Daniels in the

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Speaker 1: basement and I make them be really neat and messy,

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Speaker 1: and I keep track of their careers also.

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Speaker 4: And I guess you're the most successful one because you're

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Speaker 4: not at the basement, right, so that proves your theory.

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm the only one with a podcast, which

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Speaker 1: maybe means I'm a failure as a scientist. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 4: The other ones are actually doing physics. Is that what

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Speaker 4: you're saying?

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Speaker 1: They're still doing research exactly.

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Speaker 4: But anyways, welcome to our podcast. Niel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 4: the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we try to find order in this messy universe,

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Speaker 1: this chaotic swirl of particles going to and fro weaving

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Speaker 1: themselves together into this incredible, beautiful reality that we want

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Speaker 1: to make sense of. While galaxies smash into each other

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Speaker 1: and particles annihilate each other, we step back and try

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Speaker 1: to organize all the things that are happening out there

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Speaker 1: in the universe into a crystalline set of ideas that

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Speaker 1: we can transmit along these audio waves into your brains.

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Speaker 4: That's right, because it is a pretty messy universe full

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Speaker 4: of amazing and exciting things happening out there. Are particles

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Speaker 4: crashing into each other's black holes, sucking up things. And

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Speaker 4: yet somehow we have as humans figured out that there

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Speaker 4: is a little bit of an order to all of this,

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Speaker 4: even if we aren't very ordered ourselves.

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Speaker 1: And of course we don't know if that order exists

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Speaker 1: in the universe or if it's just something we have

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Speaker 1: imposed on it. Does the universe actually make sense? Or

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Speaker 1: are we just telling ourselves these stories? A one question

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Speaker 1: in the philosophy of physics, But so far it works

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Speaker 1: for us. It lets us build airplanes and transistors and

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Speaker 1: all kinds of new materials that ruin and save our lives.

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Speaker 4: Are you saying the universe is just messy enough?

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Speaker 1: I'm saying it melts my brain sometimes.

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Speaker 4: Melts in your mouth all that knowledge.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what it would you like if the universe

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Speaker 1: melted in your hand instead of your mouth.

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, can you hold the universe in

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Speaker 4: your hand.

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Speaker 1: Only if it has a thin candy coating, right.

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Speaker 4: But you are in the universe. Also put in your

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Speaker 4: hand the inside the eminem two.

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Speaker 1: We are all eminem's. That's the philosophy on this show.

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Speaker 4: But are you the chocolate or are you the candy?

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Speaker 4: And which color is your mine?

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Speaker 1: Knowledge is the chocolate, and this show is the candy

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Speaker 1: coating that helps it go down smooth.

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Speaker 4: Keeps it from melting in your mouth or in your hands.

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Speaker 1: Exactly as you crunch on through it, or in your ears.

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Speaker 4: That would be pretty messy. You don't mind melt the

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Speaker 4: chocolate in your ears.

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Speaker 1: Are you suggesting people do or do not put eminems

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Speaker 1: in their ears? That's sort of lost track here.

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Speaker 4: I know children do, and we have kids listening.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying you know the results of that experiment

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Speaker 1: that if you what eminems in your ears, they do

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Speaker 1: not melt.

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Speaker 4: I can guess what happens.

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Speaker 1: The thing it's science is not about guessing. It's about

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Speaker 1: going out there and doing experiments and discovering what actually

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Speaker 1: happens when you make new arrangements that nobody's ever thought

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Speaker 1: of before. Sometimes it's adding weird metals to other metals.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's putting eminems in ears.

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Speaker 4: That's right, because we know the universe is made out

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Speaker 4: of particles and bits of energy out there. But as

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Speaker 4: it turns out, there are lots of different ways you

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Speaker 4: can put together those bits of matter and energy and

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Speaker 4: which gives you all kinds of different results.

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Speaker 1: And there are people still figuring this out.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 1: I'm a particle physicist, so my natural inclination for understanding

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Speaker 1: how the world works is to take it apart, is

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Speaker 1: to reduce it to its smallest, most fundamental elements. But

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Speaker 1: there are other people who work in a completely different direction.

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Speaker 1: Their basic question is how do we make some new

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Speaker 1: kind of goo? And can we make goo that can

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Speaker 1: do things that go never did before? They combine those

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Speaker 1: fundamental pieces of the universe in new ways to try

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Speaker 1: to make them dance and jiggle and do things that

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Speaker 1: no other kinds of goo have done before.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because there are many different ways that matter can

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Speaker 4: arrange itself. They're called states of matter, right. There's liquid

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Speaker 4: and gas and solids and plasma. Right, those are the

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Speaker 4: states of matter that we know of.

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Speaker 1: Those are the famous classical states of matter. But as

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Speaker 1: we explore the universe and push on these things, we

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Speaker 1: discover the matter can do all sorts of weird kinds

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Speaker 1: of things. We talked on the podcast recently about quark

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Speaker 1: gluon plasma or you called it quasma.

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Speaker 4: A great name by the way. Yes, I'm still waiting

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Speaker 4: for my Nobel Price.

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Speaker 1: Well, just keep eating banasma as you wait. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that might slip with the Noble Price Committee.

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Speaker 1: But it's amazing to me all the things that emerge

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Speaker 1: in our universe. You know, one deep answer to the

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Speaker 1: question what is the universe made out of? Is to

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Speaker 1: reveal its fundamental bits. But I think it's equally important

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Speaker 1: to understand what those bits do when they work together,

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Speaker 1: because you can't explain the entire universe from the fundamental pieces.

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Speaker 1: Even if you had a complete and unique string theory

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Speaker 1: that described the fundamental theory of everything, you couldn't use

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Speaker 1: it to predict hurricanes or traffic on the four h

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Speaker 1: five because these are properties that emerge at a different scale.

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Speaker 1: When you zoom out from the universe from this hin

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Speaker 1: these little bits, you notice these incredible properties places where

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Speaker 1: we find these interesting and simple mathematical stories that we

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Speaker 1: can tell about the universe, whether or not they are fundamental.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So there are these four basic states of matter

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Speaker 4: that most people are familiar with solid gas, liquid plasma,

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Speaker 4: and we're I guess they're popular and people know them

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Speaker 4: because we see them in our everyday lives. Right, they're

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Speaker 4: sort of what how matter usually sticks together, But as

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Speaker 4: you were saying, there are many other ways that matter

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Speaker 4: can stick together if you go down into the weirder

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Speaker 4: realm of quantum physics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you stick things together in weird ways and

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Speaker 1: zap them with lasers, you can find stuff that does

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Speaker 1: things that no other kind of stuff can do. You've

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Speaker 1: probably heard of Bose Einstein condensates, for example, weird collections

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Speaker 1: of particles that act all together as a single quantum

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Speaker 1: star eight, a macroscopic blob of stuff with quantum properties.

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Speaker 1: That's another example of how you can squeeze and tweak

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Speaker 1: matter into weird configurations to do new kinds of.

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Speaker 4: Stuff and new kinds of stuff is what we'll be

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Speaker 4: talking about here today. So today on the podcast, we'll

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Speaker 4: be asking the question what are quantum glasses? Now, Daniel,

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Speaker 4: I'm guessing these are not just things you wear to

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Speaker 4: see quantum things better.

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Speaker 1: When we go to a quantum physics conference, everybody puts

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Speaker 1: these things on it's like going to a three D movie.

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Speaker 4: Right, it's for curing quantum myopia? Is that what it's

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Speaker 4: there for? Or are they for drinking quantum wine or juice?

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Speaker 4: Quantum juice?

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Speaker 1: So you can say, I'm not sure if I drink

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Speaker 1: that glass of wine or if somebody else did schroding

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Speaker 1: or drink my glass of wine.

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Speaker 4: I'm any glasses of quantum? Have you drunk today? One

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Speaker 4: and zero at the same time.

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Speaker 1: There's a probability distribution that I'm drunk quantum glasses.

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Speaker 4: So these are two I'm familiar with, but I've never

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Speaker 4: seen them together in the same phrase.

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Speaker 1: These are a really interesting kind of material. Sometimes they're

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Speaker 1: also called spin glasses, as we'll learn about later, because

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Speaker 1: they involve quantum spin. So it's a really fun topic

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Speaker 1: and something a bunch of listeners have been emailing me

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Speaker 1: about because they saw articles about spin glasses and quantum

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Speaker 1: glasses and they wanted to understand, Hey, what are these

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Speaker 1: things anyway interesting?

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Speaker 4: And can you make a spin bottle out of glass?

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Speaker 4: Is that the same thing I think you're thinking of

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Speaker 4: the game Spin the Boss Spin Right? Well, as usual,

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Speaker 4: we were wondering how many people out there had heard

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Speaker 4: of this phrase quantum glasses or had any idea of

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Speaker 4: what they are.

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Speaker 1: So thank you very much to those of you who

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Speaker 1: are willing to answer these questions. It's really helpful to

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Speaker 1: give us a sense for what people are thinking and

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Speaker 1: what they already know. If you'd like to participate for

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Speaker 1: future episodes, please don't be shy. Write to me too

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Speaker 1: questions at Danielantorge dot com and I'll set you up.

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Speaker 4: So think about it for a second. What do you

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Speaker 4: think quantum glasses are? And what could you see?

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Speaker 5: What?

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Speaker 4: He would be glad to say.

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Speaker 6: Quantum glasses, I guess, are not spectacles to you through,

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Speaker 6: but they should be a kind of material. In material science,

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Speaker 6: glasses are a class of material that are characterized by

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Speaker 6: being very disorganized. So quantum glasses should be a quantum

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Speaker 6: soup that is disorganized.

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Speaker 7: I have no idea. I don't think they are the

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Speaker 7: tiny little reading glasses that some people perch on the

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Speaker 7: end of their nose. Nor are they the tiny little

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Speaker 7: shot glasses one might use for very strong drink. Even

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Speaker 7: those are not quite quantum level, and one should use

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Speaker 7: distance glasses, if any, rather than reading glasses, and not

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Speaker 7: drink alcohol while driving a Volkswagen quantum. So I'm going

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Speaker 7: to take a wild guess that there's something that refocuses

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Speaker 7: beams of quantum particles, much like how eyeglasses and other

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Speaker 7: such lenses refocus beams of light.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely no idea what quantum glasses could be, so this

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Speaker 8: is going to be a completely uneducated guess in every way.

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Speaker 8: My mind originally went to glasses like glasses you wear,

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Speaker 8: but then I also thought of glasses as like a

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Speaker 8: container for a liquid. So my guess is that it

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Speaker 8: is some type of container through which we can better

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Speaker 8: observe quantum events events on a quantum scale.

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Speaker 9: I think quantum glasses is a system physicist use to

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Speaker 9: negotiate quantum theory. Either that or it's the glasses I

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Speaker 9: used to use when I was a heavy drinker.

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Speaker 10: I take a guess quantum glasses helps you see shortting

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Speaker 10: girl's cat exactly what that cat is doing, and it's

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Speaker 10: no whereabouts.

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Speaker 5: If I was to deduce, I reckon it's some way

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Speaker 5: of being able to utilize something to review or to

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Speaker 5: assess the way that the quantum world is behaving, similar

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Speaker 5: to how spectacles some lady to say the world. I

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Speaker 5: wonder if that's not something to do with our ability

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Speaker 5: to see or interact with the quantum world.

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Speaker 4: All right, a lot of interesting ideas.

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Speaker 1: I love the tiny, little reedy glasses.

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Speaker 4: They're like the little quantum particles you put in your eyeballs.

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Speaker 4: Is that what they're saying.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm imagining like little tiny glasses perched at the

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Speaker 1: very very tip of.

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Speaker 4: My nose m and they're there and they're not there

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Speaker 4: at the same time.

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Speaker 1: But I'm most impressed with this one guest that says

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Speaker 1: glasses are disorganized. So maybe quantum glasses are a disorganized

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Speaker 1: quantum soup that is so close to correct. I'm amazed.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like maybe they cheated or something.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if they read an article about this.

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Speaker 1: I don't know the rules are. You're not allowed to google,

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Speaker 1: so you know, maybe they just intuited it. Maybe this

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Speaker 1: person just is a physics genius.

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Speaker 4: Wow, maybe you should be hiring them, or maybe you

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Speaker 4: already hired them. I don't know. Did you ask your

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Speaker 4: grad students?

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I do sometimes, But these are all random Internet people.

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Speaker 1: Although you know, some of our listeners are physics grad

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Speaker 1: students and some of them aren't, So there's a pretty

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Speaker 1: wide spectrum of backgrounds.

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Speaker 4: Yes, in the end, we're all random Internet people, Daniel.

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Speaker 4: But anyways, lots of great ideas, and so let's dig

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Speaker 4: into it. What is a quantum glass? Daniel will break

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Speaker 4: it down for us.

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Speaker 1: So basically, our listener gave us the answer. A quantum

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Speaker 1: glass is a material where the quantum states are disordered

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Speaker 1: in a way. That's similar to why like a window

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Speaker 1: glass is a disordered solid rather than like an ordered crystal.

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Speaker 1: You know. That means that things on the inside are

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Speaker 1: not like arranged, so everything points in the same direction.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of scrambled a little bit.

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Speaker 10: Hmmm.

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Speaker 4: Interesting because I guess bits of matter, atoms, and quantum

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Speaker 4: particles they have a specific direction, aren't they just like

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Speaker 4: little blobs?

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Speaker 1: They do have specific directions because they have quantum spins, right,

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Speaker 1: and Luxurians are not just tiny particles with charge and mass.

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Speaker 1: They also have other quantum properties, including this weird thing

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Speaker 1: quantum spin that we don't fundamentally know what it is.

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Speaker 1: We don't think that these electrons are actually spinning because

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Speaker 1: we think of them as point particles. And even if

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Speaker 1: you account for the width of their wave function, if

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Speaker 1: they were literally spinning, then their surfaces would have to

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Speaker 1: go faster than the speed of light to explain all

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Speaker 1: of this energy. It's some other weird property. And we

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Speaker 1: have a whole podcast episode about what is quantum spin,

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Speaker 1: But for today, all we need to know is that

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Speaker 1: it can have a direction. Electrons can be like spin

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Speaker 1: up or spin down, and this is true for other

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Speaker 1: particles protons and neutrons and even for atoms can have

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Speaker 1: an overall spin, so that gives them a directionality. They're

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Speaker 1: not just points.

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Speaker 4: Right, they have a property that somehow points in a

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Speaker 4: certain specific direction in space. And you said it's just

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Speaker 4: sort of like normal glass too, Like, maybe let's start

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Speaker 4: with that. What is a normal glass?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so normal glass is something that feels solid, like

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Speaker 1: you go to your window pane and you touch it, it

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Speaker 1: feels so right. But most solids out there are not

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Speaker 1: like glass. Most solids are ordered. They're organized like a crystal.

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Speaker 1: You know. They're sort of like built out of a

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Speaker 1: bunch of tiny bricks that are all stacked together very

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Speaker 1: nicely and neatly into like a big cubic lattice. You

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Speaker 1: could think of them as like a bunch of atoms,

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Speaker 1: where the atoms all line up in three directions. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you like sort of looked down it, you could

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Speaker 1: line up all the atoms sort of like in front

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Speaker 1: of you and then along the surface and this kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. So most stuff that's out there is fairly

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Speaker 1: well organized, but a glass is not. A glass is

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Speaker 1: just sort of like a pile of stuff that's stuck together,

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Speaker 1: but it's not well organized.

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Speaker 4: What do you mean. You mean, like, my wooden desk

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Speaker 4: is neatly organized, but it looks pretty messy.

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Speaker 1: Your wooden desk is even more complicated because it has

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Speaker 1: all sorts of structure in the wood itself. But you know,

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Speaker 1: if you take it like a block of ice, it's

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Speaker 1: a single kind of stuff. It's cold, and the atoms

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Speaker 1: inside of it are arranged in a lattice. It's like

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Speaker 1: the distance between two atoms is pretty much a single number.

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Speaker 1: And that's true for most things like metals, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: But they're both solid, right, Like a piece of glass

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Speaker 4: is solid, just like a piece of ice is solid too.

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Speaker 1: That's right. A piece of glass is solid because its

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Speaker 1: volume doesn't change and its shape doesn't change. They built

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Speaker 1: just sit there, right. But if you zoomed in with

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Speaker 1: a microscope, an amorphous solid like glass, would look very

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Speaker 1: different from a crystal solid, a crystal slid. You would

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Speaker 1: zoom in and it would look like it's built out

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Speaker 1: of these little pieces that are all arrange very nicely,

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Speaker 1: like somebody stacked a bunch of legos together, whereas an

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Speaker 1: amorphous solid would look like, you know, the inside of

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Speaker 1: your lego bin. Before you build something, it would be

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Speaker 1: like a disorganized pile of stuff that's still somehow stuck together.

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Speaker 1: And you know, glass is an example of it, and

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Speaker 1: then we call these things glasses, but there are other examples,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of plastics are like this, gels are

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Speaker 1: like this. You know, sand is like this. If you

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Speaker 1: zoom in close enough, it's not like stacked up in

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Speaker 1: little bricks. It's just sort of like a big jumble.

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Speaker 1: But you're right, it is solid. It manages to stick

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Speaker 1: together well enough still have the properties of a solid.

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Speaker 4: Right, Although I've heard glasses actually a liquid, like a

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Speaker 4: really slow liquid, right, isn't it?

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Speaker 1: That is something that is said often, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's actually true. I think the people have been

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Speaker 1: misled by old windows, for example, that are thicker on

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Speaker 1: the bottom than on the top. But that's mostly because

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Speaker 1: of the glass making process at the time. Glass itself,

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Speaker 1: I don't think actually flows on a timescale the humans

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Speaker 1: can measure.

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Speaker 4: But on a long timescale it sort of does.

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Speaker 1: Right, technically, It's true that these things can flow on

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Speaker 1: very very long timescales, But most of the things where

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Speaker 1: you see it's like thicker on the bottom than on

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Speaker 1: the top is not because the glass has flowed. It's

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Speaker 1: a little bit unclear exactly what the timescale is for

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Speaker 1: a glass to flow into a puddle, for example. It

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Speaker 1: might be a very very long timescale.

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Speaker 4: Well, I guess maybe a question I have is what's

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Speaker 4: the difference between something that is a glass and something

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Speaker 4: that is not a glass? Like what makes some materials

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Speaker 4: arrange themselves into crystal structure lattices and what makes them

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Speaker 4: just stick together amorphously.

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Speaker 1: The answer is that is complicated. For some materials depends

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Speaker 1: on how they are cooled. So if you cool things

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Speaker 1: really really fast, they don't have a chance for the

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Speaker 1: crystal to organize itself. Other materials just don't fall into

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Speaker 1: a crystal because of the way their interactions work. They

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Speaker 1: like can't build a regular lattice. So it depends a

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Speaker 1: lot on the exact material, and also on how you

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Speaker 1: get it to its state. So some things can be

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Speaker 1: crystals or can be glasses, and it just depends on

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Speaker 1: how quickly they are cooled down.

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Speaker 4: Doesn't a lot of it also depend on like the

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Speaker 4: structure of the molecules in the material. For example, I know,

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Speaker 4: like maybe I think water falls into crystals because the

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Speaker 4: two h's and the O kind of form a kind

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Speaker 4: of a weird shape, and there are only so many

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Speaker 4: different ways you can kind of make those shapes stick together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I mean by the interactions of the materials. Imagine,

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Speaker 1: for example, you have a weird shape tile. A question

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Speaker 1: you can ask is like can I tile this across

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Speaker 1: the floor in a regular pattern? And that's basically what

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Speaker 1: you're trying to do when you build a crystal, is

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Speaker 1: like fill up a space with a regular pattern with

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Speaker 1: a weird shape that you have. So as you say,

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Speaker 1: for example, water has kind of a weird shape, but

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Speaker 1: it's capable of building crystal. But actually it can build

442
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,160
Speaker 1: lots of different kinds of crystals based on the temperature

443
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: and pressure of its formation. There's like ice four and

444
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 1: ice six and ice nine. These are all different crystal arrangements.

445
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 1: Of the same basic thing based on the temperature and

446
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: the pressure and the conditions in which it was formed.

447
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 1: So it's a really complicated question.

448
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think it also depends on what makes

449
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 4: the molecules stick together, right, Like in H two. It

450
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,360
Speaker 4: could be the forces between the o's for example, I'm

451
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 4: just giving a random example, or it could be you know,

452
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 4: the forces between the h's and things like that, right exactly.

453
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 1: And some parts of it are stickier than others, right,

454
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,640
Speaker 1: depending on the energy levels of their electrons. So it's

455
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: something that's not always easy to predict. Sometimes the best

456
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 1: way to figure it out is just to try it,

457
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 1: is just to go out and see what happens. So

458
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 1: we have people whose entire careers are just like mapping

459
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 1: out the phase diagram of various kinds of materials, understanding

460
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: what it does under certain configurations.

461
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 4: I think maybe the takeaway is that sticks together in general,

462
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 4: and there are there are many different ways for it

463
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 4: to stick together. And sometimes they stick together in regular

464
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 4: patterns like in a grid, and sometimes they just kind

465
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 4: of bundle up like randomly, right, And that's what a glass.

466
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: Is mm hm, and glasses is an example of this category.

467
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 1: You also have like plastics and polymers and foams and gels.

468
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,360
Speaker 1: These all follow the same kind of structure as glasses.

469
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,400
Speaker 1: They are amorphous rather than crystalline.

470
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 4: Right, and those are in the macro scale. There are

471
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 4: morphous materials kind of like the atom level, right, we're

472
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 4: not yet at the quantum level.

473
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are things at the atom level exactly.

474
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 4: So then you're saying a quantum glass is a material

475
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 4: in which stuff is stuck together, but it's a morphous

476
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 4: in its quantum states.

477
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I predict you're going to be pretty unhappy

478
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 1: with this distinction about what's a quantum state or not,

479
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: because in the end, all of these interactions are quantum.

480
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: Like when two water molecules touch each other and form

481
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: part of a crystal, that is a quantum interaction between

482
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: quantum particles. But when we talk about quantum glasses, we

483
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 1: mean that we're adding a new dimension to it, that

484
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: we're considering another quantum property, in this case quantum spin,

485
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: because we're not interested in how the objects order themselves

486
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: in space. We're interested in the distribution of these spins.

487
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 1: Are the spins ordered or are the spins disordered?

488
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 4: Well, I guess maybe a distinction is that like, for example,

489
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 4: for water and ice. I mean, you're talking about atoms

490
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 4: being in a kind of a lattice, right, And atoms

491
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 4: themselves don't have spin, or you know, isn't it like

492
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 4: the electrons and the atoms and the quarks and the

493
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 4: atoms that have spin, not the atom itself.

494
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: The atoms themselves do have an overall spin. It comes

495
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: from adding up the spin of all the bits, the

496
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: nuclear spin, the electron spin, and that's what's important for

497
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 1: forming magnets, for example, is the spin of the whole atom.

498
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: It adds up, so we do think about the spin

499
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: of the atom itself, not just the electrons inside of it.

500
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 4: All right, well, let's get more into it and explain

501
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 4: what exactly is a quantum glass and whether or not

502
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 4: we've actually seen them and can touch them and maybe

503
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 4: use them to read quantum books. So let's get into

504
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 4: that up. But at first, let's take a quick break.

505
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,000
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556
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558
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559
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561
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562
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563
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564
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565
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567
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570
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571
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573
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Speaker 4: All right, we're talking about quantum glasses. Are these like

574
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 4: X ray glasses that let me see through things?

575
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: They'll let you see immediately to the next big discovery

576
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: in physics?

577
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 4: I wish isn't it just called working?

578
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: What if I could just put on quantum glasses and

579
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: look at my calendar and be like, that's the day

580
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: you're going to make a big discovery.

581
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 4: Oh what would you do? Would you work harder or less?

582
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 4: I mean, you were going to make a big discovery

583
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 4: next week?

584
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: Well, I know that napping is a crucial part of

585
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: making big discoveries, so make sure to get that out

586
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: of the way.

587
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 4: First, right, right, But would you not more or less

588
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 4: if you knew your future?

589
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: Well, in future, Daniel would have already have seen his

590
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: future using quantum glasses, so that would be accounted for,

591
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: sort of like Harry Potter time travel All.

592
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 4: Right, right, I guess you're saying you don't have any

593
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 4: free will.

594
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: That's right. I'm completely determined by my calendar. I just

595
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: do whatever it says.

596
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 4: That's right. Your naps are determined by your future self.

597
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 4: It's not your fault.

598
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: If I put make huge discovery into the calendar, then

599
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: I have no choice. I have to make a huge

600
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: discovery that day.

601
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But I'm saying, like,

602
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 4: how would it affect your presence choices?

603
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: I would type that into my calendar a lot of times.

604
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 4: But anyways, we're talking about quantum glasses and what they are,

605
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 4: and we talked about how a glass is a material

606
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 4: in which all of the bits in it are kind

607
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 4: of just ordered, amorphous, not in any kind of grid

608
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 4: or structure, and the same can be said for quantum materials.

609
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: That's right. And traditionally when we talk about glasses, we

610
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: talk about disorder in the location of the atoms, so

611
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: if you zoomed in with a microscope, you would see

612
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: like a big pile of stuff rather than a nice,

613
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: crisp organized lattice. But now we're talking about something else.

614
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: We're talking about quantum properties of these objects. So you

615
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: can have something which is a nice organized lattice in space,

616
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: like a grid of atoms that are perfectly organized, but

617
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: it can be a quantum glass if their quantum properties

618
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: are disorganized, if their spin, for example, so their magnetic

619
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: moment is not organized in a very nice way.

620
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 5: Whoa.

621
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 4: So it's almost like something you layer on top of

622
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 4: other materials, this idea. It's like, you know, we have

623
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 4: this traditional distinction between glasses and crystals, but that is

624
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 4: sort of irrelevant here, right. What counts is whether or

625
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 4: not the quantum states are aligned in a pattern or not.

626
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: Exactly whether it's a quantum glass on its quantum states,

627
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: not the spatial locations. And here mostly we're talking about

628
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: things which are physical crystals. You know, their atoms are

629
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: nicely arranged in a grid, but the quantum states of

630
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: those atoms in the grid are sort of scrambled. And

631
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: you know, traditionally, if you have stuff in a grid,

632
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: the magnetic fields can be nicely aligned. So the ferromagnet,

633
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: for example, is something where all the atoms have their

634
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: spins in the same direction, which is what controls their

635
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: little magnetic moments, And it all adds up to be

636
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: a big magnet. So if you have a fridge magnet,

637
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: for example, like a nice piece of iron that's been magnetized,

638
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: as all of its spins in the same direction, they

639
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: all add up together that make like a permanent magnet.

640
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: That's a ferromagnet. That's not a quantum glass because the

641
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: spins are all nicely organized.

642
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 4: M n see right, that's what a magnet is. Right.

643
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 4: A magnet is usually metal crystal where all of the

644
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 4: atoms in it have the same spin direction, which kind

645
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: of like I guess, synchronizes them and makes them add

646
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 4: up to a giant kind of spin or magnetic pole.

647
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: Right. And one reason that's possible is because the spins

648
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: like to align with each other. In a ferromagnetic material,

649
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: that's the relaxed state, that's the lowest energy states. When

650
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: the spins are pointing in the same direction, it likes

651
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: to be that way. There are other kinds of material,

652
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: like anti ferromagnets, where they prefer the spins to be

653
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: the opposite directions. Where you want your neighbor to have

654
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: the opposite spin is you. And because of the way

655
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: these molecules interact and their funny shapes and all their

656
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: forces between them, that happens to be the lowest energy state.

657
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: That's the opposite anti ferromagnet, where you have a crystal,

658
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: but it's like spin up down, up down, up, down,

659
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: up down. Both of these are examples of well organized

660
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: magnetic lattices.

661
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 4: Interesting and does that apply only to metals like magnet metals?

662
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 4: Like can I take a block of ice and align

663
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 4: all of the magnetic spins in the atoms of water

664
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 4: in a block of ice to make it magnetic?

665
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: You can't do that with a block of ice. No,

666
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: a block of ice is not ferromagnetic, and it's also

667
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: not paramagnetic. Paramagnetic are materials that are sort of weakly magnetic,

668
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: and if you put them in a magnetic field, they

669
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: will eventually align, but then when you take the magnetic

670
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: field away, they might lose it. But ice is neither

671
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: of those.

672
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 4: Why not Why can't I just, you know, somehow arrange

673
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 4: my water molecules so that all the spins are aligned.

674
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: It depends on how the bits of the atom are organized,

675
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: So it depends sort of like on the overall spin

676
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: of the atom. We were talking earlier about having like

677
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: spins on the electrons and spins on the nuclei. If

678
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: those sort of all add up to an overall small

679
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: amount of spin, then there's not really much to play

680
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: with there. But if they come together in a way

681
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: that makes like a large magnetic dipole for the individual atom,

682
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: then you have spins that can get aligned. And so

683
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: that's sort of what's different between some materials which are

684
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: like ferromagnetic because they can be aligned, and other materials

685
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: that are not.

686
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 4: Do you seem like in something like a water atom

687
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 4: or molecule, all of the electrons and all the quarks

688
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 4: in it are not easily or readily aligned. They like

689
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 4: to kind of be in random positions but sort of

690
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 4: cassels their spin out.

691
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And some of these materials, for example, electrons want

692
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: to be opposite spins so that they cancel out, and

693
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: other materials they're set up in a way that electrons

694
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: can all be in the same spin, so you have

695
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: an overall spin to the atom m.

696
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 4: And so that's the difference between a material that can

697
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 4: form a magnet and one that cannot.

698
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: That's one of the differences. This whole thing is very

699
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: complicated and it's difficult to make like broad generalizations, but

700
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: that's sort of like the cartoon picture why some things

701
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: can be magnetic, and some things cannot, all.

702
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 4: Right, So maybe tell me more about these anti ferromagnetic materials.

703
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: So the anti ferromagnetic materials are the ones where they

704
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: like to be opposite, where every neighbor prefers to be

705
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: the opposite of the other, And it just depends on

706
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: their interactions whether that's the lowest energy state, so they

707
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: like to be up against each other, or whether they

708
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: like to be aligned with each other. They like to

709
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: be aligned with each other. It's a ferromagnet. They like

710
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: to be opposite with each other, it's an anti ferromagnet.

711
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: Imagine like a big sheet of these atoms. If you

712
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: want them to be all aligned, is an easy way

713
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: to do that. You spin them all up or spin

714
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: them all down. Right, if you want them to be

715
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: all antiligned, there's still a pretty easy way to do that.

716
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: On a square lattice, and every other one is up

717
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: and every other one is down, so up down, up, down,

718
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: up down. And you can imagine covering an entire plane

719
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: or even a three D grid, where every atom's neighbor

720
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: has the opposite spin as it does. Right, So if

721
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: you're up, then you see down everywhere around you. In

722
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: the lattice, and if you're down, you see up everywhere

723
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: around you in the lattice. So there's a way there

724
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: to make an overall relaxation where everybody's in their lowest

725
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 1: state and everybody's happy.

726
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 4: I guess I got a little confused, because I think basically,

727
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 4: like all materials is kind of a quantum glass, right,

728
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 4: Like ice is sort of a quantum glass because it's

729
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 4: quantum spins are in all kinds of directions, right, Like

730
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 4: my hand is a quantum glass in that sense of

731
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 4: the definition of it.

732
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: I suppose, so iceen an example, has sort of negligible

733
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: quantum spins compared to the kind of things we're talking

734
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: about here, so it's not really in the category of

735
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: things that we're discussing. We're talking about material that do

736
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: have quantum spins. Do they like to be aligned or

737
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: do they like to be anti aligned? And can you

738
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: make the material in such a way that the whole

739
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: thing is happy overall, the whole thing is relaxed into

740
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: its lowest energy state, either in ferromagnets by lining up

741
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: all the spins or anti ferromagnets by flipping all of

742
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 1: the spins. Right.

743
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,479
Speaker 4: But I think you're talking now about like, let's post

744
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 4: a little challenge for ourselves. Let's say if you can

745
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 4: find material that you can arrange in a crystal, in

746
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 4: a lattice, in like a grid, but somehow also make

747
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 4: all those spins differently or randomly directed.

748
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a spin glass is a kind of material

749
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: where the spins can't all relax, where you can't find

750
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: a configuration where everybody's happy. We talked a minute ago

751
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: about anti ferromagnets, where things like to be the opposite

752
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: spin of their neighbor. And that works in a square lattice, right,

753
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: where you have like a neighbor to both sides and

754
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: above you and behind you and in front of you.

755
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: What if, for example, you have like a triangular lattice

756
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: instead of a square lattice, and so you have like

757
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: two neighbors. Imagine just points on a triangle. You label

758
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: one point up, the next one down. What's the third

759
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: point going to be? It wants to be down because

760
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: it has one up neighbor, and it wants to be

761
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: up because it has one down neighbor. So it doesn't

762
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: know where to go right. It can't satisfy both of

763
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: its neighbors at the same time.

764
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 4: Wait, you're saying, I guess that these anti ferromagnetic I

765
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 4: guess atoms or molecules, they're sort of like contrarians, Like

766
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 4: if their neighbor is up, they want to go down right,

767
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 4: And if they have two neighbors that are up, then

768
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 4: they want to go down. I guess two questions. First

769
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 4: of all, why are they so contrarian?

770
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: Hey, some people just can be grumpy, and you shouldn't

771
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: ask too many questions, you know. It depends on the

772
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: complicated interactions between the atoms. Atoms are not simple. Objects

773
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: have a spatial extent, and they're sloshing around. They have

774
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: all their internal forces. You're closer to some bits of

775
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 1: it than to other bits of it. And the spins

776
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: of these objects interact right, and some of them like

777
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: to be spin up and some of them like to

778
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: be spinned down. I guess the short answer is that

779
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: it's really complicated, and sometimes it even depends on distance.

780
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: Like if you're close up, then they like to have

781
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: the same spin, and as you get further away, they

782
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: like to have the opposite spin. And then as you

783
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: gave them further away, they like to be the same spin. Again,

784
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: it's really complicated and depends on a lot of the

785
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: details of exactly the internal arrangements of each atom or molecule.

786
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 4: I see, but is it I guess kind of like

787
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 4: a magnet, right, Like if I have two magnets and

788
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 4: they're both, you know, have the same north pole pointed

789
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 4: in the same direction, I bring them together, like one

790
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 4: of them will want to flip over so that it's

791
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 4: opposite the other one. So I kind of like the

792
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 4: good analogy or maybe even the same thing.

793
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: That's the same thing for the anti ferromagnets, right, except

794
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: here we're talking about spins, but it's very similar. You know,

795
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 1: the minimum energy state there is for one north pole

796
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: to be aligned with the other magnet's south pole, and

797
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: if you try to push in the other direction, it's

798
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: going to take some energy to keep it there, and

799
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: if you let go, it will relax into the configuration

800
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: where they have the opposite directions, where the north pole

801
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: one magnet is aligned with the south pole of other magnets.

802
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 4: Okay, so now I think what you're saying is, you know,

803
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 4: we have these materials, these atoms that are contrarying, and

804
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 4: they like to be opposite the spin of its neighbors.

805
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 4: So now what happens, and if I put two upspins

806
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 4: next to it, it's gonna want to be down spin.

807
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 4: But what happens if I put an upspin and a

808
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 4: down spin next to it? It gets a little confused, right,

809
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 4: or frustrated?

810
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And that's what physicists call it. They call

811
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: it a frustration when you can't arrange the spins in

812
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: a way so the whole thing has minimum energy. Right,

813
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: in a square lattice, imagine four points on a square

814
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: could have like the top left be up, on the

815
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: bottom right be up, and the other two points be down,

816
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: and everybody's happy because all the downs have only up

817
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: neighbors and all the ups have only down neighbors. But

818
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: in a triangular lattice, you can't do that, right, the

819
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: third point has one up neighbor and one down neighbor,

820
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 1: and it can't decide which way to go. There's two

821
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: possible states there that have the same energy, and neither

822
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: of them are like the minimum energy.

823
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 10: Right.

824
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 4: It's like having a conversation between three people and one

825
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 4: of them is their contrarian. What happens that one of

826
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 4: the other people agrees with them, but the other one

827
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 4: does not. What does the contrarian do exactly who to

828
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 4: disagree with.

829
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: And so this is what a spin glass is because

830
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: the spins end up sort of like disorganized. It's not

831
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: like a ferromagne where they're all point in the same way,

832
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: or an anti ferromac in a square crystal where they're

833
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: all pointing opposite directions. It's kind of a disaster, right.

834
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: So like tense, it's frustrated, it can't quite relax, and

835
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: so where the spins end up is a little bit random.

836
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 4: Oh interesting, So you're saying that part of the definition

837
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 4: of what a quantum glass is is that kind of

838
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 4: frustration built into it. Like if I build the lattice

839
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 4: with contrariant atoms and everyone's contrary to their neighbor, then

840
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 4: it's and everyone's happy. Then that's not a quantum glass.

841
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: Right exactly, that's just a normal anti ferromagnet crystal.

842
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 4: But if you can somehow frustrate the atoms, then you

843
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 4: have a quantum glass. Because I guess everyone's frustrated and

844
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 4: what constantly flipping back and forth is that kind of

845
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 4: what happens.

846
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone's frustrated, it can't find the minimum and it

847
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: has new weird properties. So when we talk about a

848
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: phase transition that has to be like a change in

849
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: how the material operates in one of its properties. Right,

850
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: we don't say that cold water and hot water are

851
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: different phases, even though they are chemically different, because there's

852
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: no like large change in its macroscopic behavior. So for

853
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: years or even decades, there was an argument about whether

854
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: spin glasses really are their own phase of matter. And

855
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: the people who say that it is its own phase

856
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: of matter, they argue that it's unique because it has

857
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 1: weird relaxation times. Like if you take a ferromagnet or

858
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: an anti ferromagnet and you apply a really strong magnetic

859
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: field and you sort of mess up the spins, it

860
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: will relax pretty quickly when you take away the magnetic field.

861
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: But a spin glass, if you do that, it'll react

862
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: really differently. It'll take like forever to relax and it'll

863
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: never come back to its original position. So people argue

864
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: that that's enough of a different macroscopic property to be

865
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: its own kind of thing.

866
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 4: What do you mean it takes a while, like the

867
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 4: items keep switching back and forth or what there's like

868
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 4: turmoil inside of the material.

869
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have like decision paralysis. You know. It's like

870
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 1: if you go to the cookie aisle and there's like

871
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: a thousand cookies and your shopping list just says cookie.

872
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: You're like, uh, oh, do I get oreos? Do I

873
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: get chips? A hoy?

874
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 10: Oh?

875
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: Look at those fudge ones? Oh no, I can't decide

876
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: what I want and they all seem equally good. You

877
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: could spend hours there wandering around, switching, you know, taking

878
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: stuff in and out of your basket, not sure what

879
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: to actually buy. And so spin glasses are sort of

880
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: like this. If you perturb them, you give them magnetic energy,

881
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: you put them in a magnetic field, and then you

882
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: take it away. They take a long time sort of

883
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: sloshing back and forth, spins, flipping and then flipping other spins.

884
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: They can't find a comfortable situation to relax in.

885
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 4: But I guess, isn't spin a quantum property, meaning like

886
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 4: each atom has a spin that's both up and down,

887
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 4: like they win a particular direction. Wouldn't that sort of

888
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 4: collapse the wave function of that quantum state?

889
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, really interesting question. It's true that spin is

890
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: a quantum property, which means both that it can either

891
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: be up or down, but not like in between, right,

892
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,919
Speaker 1: when you measure these things, you either get up or down.

893
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: But it means that until you measure it, it's not

894
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: necessarily de ermined. So what that means is that the

895
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: whole thing has like a few different quantum states that

896
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: are all possible. Or we're talking about is what happens

897
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: when you measure it. Right, So you probe this thing,

898
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: you ask like, what's the spin over here? What's the

899
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: spin over here? What's the spin over here? And you're right,

900
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: that will collapse the wave function, so that everybody's going

901
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 1: to make a decision. But you come back another minute

902
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: later and it's made a different decision, and you come

903
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: back another minute later, it's made another decision. So you

904
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: never really see it settle and relax into a fixed state.

905
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 4: Right, So when you're talking about like this turmoil, all

906
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 4: the contrarians can not being able to decide which way

907
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 4: they're being controlling about. It's more of like a quantum turmoil, right,

908
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 4: Like it's not actually flipping back and forth, and it's

909
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 4: not like you're at the cookie aisle trying to decide.

910
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 4: It's like you're sort of in this state where you're

911
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 4: decided and not decided.

912
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: No, I think it really is decided or not decided.

913
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you can take pictures of these things essentially

914
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: using like skinning, tunneling, microscopy or other ways to probe

915
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: the magnetic field, so you can collapse these wave functions

916
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: and you can see them evolve over time, so you

917
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 1: can see these things really are flipping. It's not like

918
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: once you've collapsed the wave function, then it's happy and

919
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: it's going to stay there. You can collapse the way function,

920
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: you can come back and collapse it again and then

921
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: again and again. You can see that they are flipping

922
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: their spins. So that's the interesting property about spin glasses

923
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: is that they have these really long relaxation times. They're

924
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: basically never in equilibrium. You know. Another way think about

925
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: it is like say you sit down at a really

926
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: long banquet table and there's silverware to your left and

927
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: to your right. Do you take the one to your

928
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: left or do you take the one to your right?

929
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: You know, if everybody takes to the left, everybody's happy.

930
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: If everybody takes to the right, everybody's happy. If people

931
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: are arguing, you know, no, that one's mine, that one's mine,

932
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: then you know you can't really settle into a comfortable state.

933
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: So spin glasses are situations where like people can't agree

934
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,959
Speaker 1: about what the rules are and so everybody's just taking

935
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: whatever silverware.

936
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 4: Well, then you say, eventually it settles down, and so

937
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 4: what does it settle down into solid force or main course?

938
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: For That's the interesting thing about spin glasses is that

939
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: it's very hard to predict. You know, when we try

940
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: to understand the macroscopic properties of these things, we do

941
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: so by starting from the microscopic we say, okay, crystals

942
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: made of these little bits, and then we expand our

943
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: understanding from that basis stacking them together to make the

944
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: macroscopic properties. That's really hard to do with spin glasses

945
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 1: because they're so crazy and unpredictable. They're basically never in equilibrium.

946
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: So a lot of the mathematical tricks that we use

947
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: to understand crystals don't really work for spin glasses, which

948
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: led to like invention of whole new categories of mathematics.

949
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 4: Hmmm. Interesting. All right, Well, let's get into those new

950
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 4: categories of maths and what these materials are good for

951
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 4: and what we can.

952
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 12: Learn from them. But first, let's take another quick break.

953
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954
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955
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956
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,600
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957
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958
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959
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960
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961
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,319
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962
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963
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964
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,480
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965
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966
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967
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968
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969
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,839
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970
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,680
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971
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972
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986
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1001
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 4: All right, we're talking about quantum glasses, which is one

1002
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 4: of our listeners said, is where you take shots of

1003
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 4: quantum whiskey or tequila.

1004
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: One electron at a time. Man, it's quantam that'll take

1005
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: forever to get drunk. That's the point man, moderation in

1006
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: all things.

1007
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 4: I see one atom at a time. All right, So

1008
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 4: it sounds like there are materials you can put together

1009
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 4: in a crystal that are unhappy basically at their core

1010
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 4: because all of the atoms can't find a good arrangement

1011
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 4: of their quantum spin. Everyone is sort of in this

1012
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 4: state where they don't know whether to go up or

1013
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 4: down in their spin, and so you create material with

1014
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,479
Speaker 4: a lot of frustration in.

1015
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: It, exactly. And a lot of these spin glasses are

1016
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 1: not just like one kind of material in a lattice

1017
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: where they're all contrarians and it's arranged in a way

1018
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 1: where they can't be happy. A lot of the times.

1019
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: It's a few examples of something that is magnetic inside

1020
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 1: a larger crystal. So you'll have like a non magnetic

1021
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: material like gold or silver or copper, and you sprinkle

1022
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: into it a few percent of magnetic atoms iron or

1023
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 1: something else. And because of their interactions depend on the distance,

1024
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: whether they like they have the same spin or the

1025
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: opposite spin, depends on how far apart they are, you

1026
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: can end up with these disordered spins.

1027
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 4: You're saying, that's how you make a quantum glass. You

1028
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 4: embed magnetic atoms into a regular metal.

1029
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: Exactly, and then you cool it down and you see, like,

1030
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: how are they frozen in?

1031
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 4: Hmm? Interesting, Like you bake in the frustration of the

1032
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 4: magnetic atoms.

1033
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: You freeze it in. Yeah, exactly.

1034
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 4: All right, Well, I guess a good question for me

1035
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 4: is what are these materials good for? Or why are

1036
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 4: we interested in them.

1037
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 1: So these things don't have an immediate practical application. It's

1038
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: not like with spin glasses you can make quantum computers,

1039
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: or you can build a better transistor, or you can

1040
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: take tiny shots of hot cocoa or something like that.

1041
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: There's no immediate application. But it's an interesting and tricky problem,

1042
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 1: and so people have been thinking about it and you know,

1043
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: sweating over it and trying to figure out, like, can

1044
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: we describe these things mathematically? Is there some way to

1045
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: figure this out? I mean, this is one of the

1046
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 1: deep questions of physics itself, you know, because again, since

1047
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: we don't have the fundamental theory of everything, all the

1048
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: theories that we develop are what we call effective theories.

1049
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: They're like mathematical stories that we tell that describe the

1050
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: things that we see, but they're not like written into

1051
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: the fundamental firmament of the universe. You know, Aliens, for example,

1052
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: might not come up with these same effective theories. They're

1053
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 1: just sort of useful descriptions. But it's incredible we can

1054
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 1: find them. But sometimes they're harder to find than others.

1055
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: You know, for solids and for liquids, we have found

1056
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: mathematical descriptions that are useful for spin glass. It's been

1057
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 1: much much harder because their interactions are more complicated and

1058
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: less regular. But it's inspired people to come up with

1059
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 1: all sorts of new mathematical tricks, one of which people

1060
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: think is the reason why we discovered the Higgs boson.

1061
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 4: Ooh, I guess maybe a step us through that a

1062
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 4: little bit more. What does that mean? Like we have

1063
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 4: an effective theory to describe like a regular magnet? Is

1064
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 4: that what you're saying? We have like a mathematical way

1065
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 4: to study and model how regular magnet works, but you're

1066
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 4: saying we don't have one yet for these crazy frustrated materials.

1067
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: We've been working on. We've been making progress. I mean

1068
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: by we, I mean all the other physicists. We're not

1069
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: goofing off making podcasts. We you know, as the general

1070
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: group of humans thinking about these kinds of things, have

1071
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: been working on this for a long time. And I

1072
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: think it's always interesting when it requires a new kind

1073
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: of math. And so there's an Italian physicist, Parsi, who

1074
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 1: won the Nobel Prize for this in twenty twenty one

1075
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,240
Speaker 1: because he came up with a new sort of mathematical

1076
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: strategy for dealing with this complication. You know. One of

1077
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: the real problems is that these things and arrange themselves

1078
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 1: in lots of different ways, and when you poke them,

1079
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: you know, you give them a little bit more magnetic energy.

1080
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 1: So you scramble all the spins and you watch them relax.

1081
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: You wonder like, why does it land in this configuration

1082
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: and not that one? Can we predict this kind of thing?

1083
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: Can we come up with some sort of mathematical way

1084
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 1: to grapple with this and predict what's going to happen?

1085
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 1: It can't be completely random?

1086
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 4: And I guess what do you mean by a new

1087
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 4: kind of math, like a new kind of like adding

1088
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 4: quantum to old math, or what does that mean?

1089
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: The way mathematics makes progress is that sometimes they need

1090
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 1: to develop like a new kind of tool, you know,

1091
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: like they find differential equations, and here's strategies for solving

1092
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: that kind of problem, or here's algebra, you know, like

1093
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: the people who figured out how to write equations down

1094
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,959
Speaker 1: and solve them to get understanding. We're able to solve

1095
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: certain problems that other people couldn't. And for example, Descartes

1096
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 1: made a lot of advances in geometry because he was

1097
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: able to figure out how to use algebra to tackle geometry,

1098
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: Like if you could write down the equation of a circle,

1099
00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: then you could solve systems of equations and understand geometric patterns.

1100
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: So here they've done something similar. They've invented sort of

1101
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: like new mathematical tools, and these mathematical tools are really

1102
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: thinking about the symmetry of the problem, Like you have

1103
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: this huge complex tree of options that a spin glass

1104
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: can do. It can flip this way, you can flip

1105
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: that way, you can flip the other way. So what

1106
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:18,919
Speaker 1: Parisi did was come up with a way to think

1107
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 1: about this in sort of the larger context, Like don't

1108
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 1: just think about the one spin glass you have. Think

1109
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: about all the other spin glasses you don't have, like

1110
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: replicas of that system, and try to organize them into

1111
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: like branches, say like, oh, these guys are all similar

1112
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: in this way. Those guys are all similar in the

1113
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: other way. Think about like the choices that were made

1114
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: to get to this spin glass from the higher energy

1115
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: spin glass. And he found these ways to like organize

1116
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:48,320
Speaker 1: these and use symmetries to like break down the problem

1117
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: into smaller pieces and to organize this complexity, and that

1118
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: helped them make sort of like approximate statements about which

1119
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 1: kinds of spin glass final states were more likely than others,

1120
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 1: Like if you started here, you were likely to get

1121
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: to neighboring final states where you weren't going to make

1122
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: a big jump to something all the way in the

1123
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: other side of the sort of symmetry organized set of states.

1124
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,919
Speaker 4: And you're talking about math that sort of analyzes one

1125
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 4: of these grids, right Like you're looking at a grid

1126
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 4: of these atoms, these frustrated atoms together and you're trying

1127
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 4: to figure out, like, you know, are they all gonna

1128
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 4: go up or down? Or are they going to alternate,

1129
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 4: or are they gonna you know, how often are you

1130
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 4: going to run into an upspin atom?

1131
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: And you're wondering, if I poke this thing, how likely

1132
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 1: is it to change to another configuration, or how likely

1133
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: is it after I've poked it to come back to

1134
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: this configuration, Or how many spins are going to be

1135
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: flipped after I poke it? Is it going to be

1136
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,240
Speaker 1: every single thing is flipped or just a fraction or flipped.

1137
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: So those are the kind of questions people are interested in,

1138
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: just like what are the behaviors of these things? So

1139
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: Prese's math give us sort of like a map for

1140
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: all those different configurations. He said, like, okay, this configuration

1141
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: is the spin glass. You can put it here on

1142
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: the map. And he was able to sort of organize

1143
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: and create this idea of a distance between one spin

1144
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: configuration and another. This distance is sort of a mathematical

1145
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: way to calculate like how many spins are similar or not.

1146
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: And he was able to organize it in such a

1147
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: way that he showed that if you poke this thing,

1148
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: it was more likely to end up in a nearby

1149
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: configuration than a distant one where the distance here is

1150
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: something that he defined. There's his strategy for organizing these

1151
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: different configurations.

1152
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 4: So this is a pretty interesting kind of material. I

1153
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 4: guess kind of to go back a little bit to

1154
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 4: my earlier question is you know, like, let's say I

1155
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 4: make a piece of quantum glass and it has these

1156
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 4: interesting mathematical properties. What could I do with it? Can

1157
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 4: I like make actual glasses out of this glass?

1158
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 10: Well?

1159
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 4: What happen if I see through it?

1160
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: Only if you can see through solid gold or silver

1161
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: or copper. You know, there's not anything that I'm aware

1162
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:48,919
Speaker 1: that you can like do with it in your life

1163
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: other than impress your physicist friends, which you know has

1164
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,240
Speaker 1: its own inherent value.

1165
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 4: I mean it is sort of a quantum object, isn't it.

1166
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 4: At the end of the day, this glass is a

1167
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 4: quantum object. Could you do quantum things with it? Or

1168
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:02,760
Speaker 4: computations it? Possibly?

1169
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: I'm not aware of any applications for quantum computing, but

1170
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: I think with the most interesting thing is just the

1171
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: math that it makes us think about. It made these

1172
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: guys think about symmetries and patterns in new ways and

1173
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: come up with new mathematical tools. And whenever we develop

1174
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: new mathematical tools, we always find out that they are

1175
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: useful in other places. So people have been thinking about

1176
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: these kinds of symmetries and crystals for decades and decades.

1177
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: In the field we call condensed matter the study of

1178
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: you know, dense objects like crystals. And because of that

1179
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: mathematical foundation laying in condensed matter, there's a lot of

1180
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: work on symmetries, a lot of which informed Peter Higgs.

1181
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: When he was thinking about why particles get mass. He

1182
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 1: came up with this idea of another field in the

1183
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: universe that imparts the mass. But this field had to

1184
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: be really weird and different from any other field. He

1185
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: had seen before. It would have to settle and relax

1186
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 1: into a non minimum energy state. As we've talked about

1187
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 1: in the program a lot of times, the Higgs field

1188
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: has some weird energy bound into it. It can't relax

1189
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: to its lowest energy state. It relaxed to this weird

1190
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: intermediate state. And so thinking about the symmetry of that

1191
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: problem helped him think about the symmetries and the broken

1192
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: symmetries of the Higgs field and really inspired that whole

1193
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: direction of mathematics and particle physics. Mmm.

1194
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 4: And that kind of worked out right for Peter Higgs

1195
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 4: and press of humanity. But Peter Higgs didn't know about

1196
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 4: these quantum glasses, right, you're just saying that they sort

1197
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 4: of us the same kind of math, and that's why

1198
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 4: it could be important.

1199
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: That's right. Quantum glasses weren't well understood when he was

1200
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:35,919
Speaker 1: talking about this kind of stuff and he was thinking

1201
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: about it. But the mathematics that underlie condensed matter and

1202
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: understanding these symmetries led to both a deeper understanding of

1203
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: quantum glasses and of symmetry breaking and the Higgs field.

1204
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting that there is a connection, right, I mean,

1205
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 4: there's a connection between the such a fundamental particle in

1206
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 4: the universe and maybe all particles and what happens at

1207
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 4: these kind of macroscopic levels, right, maybe the idea that

1208
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 4: the universe there's a lot about symmetry in the universe.

1209
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: There is a lot about symmetry in the universe, and

1210
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: also about these emergent phenomena. We've talked several times on

1211
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: the podcast about things we call quasi particles. These are

1212
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: weird materials that have states in them that look sort

1213
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: of like particles that act sort of like particles, you know,

1214
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: like phonons are waves that pass through a lattice in

1215
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: a crystal, and they're sort of similar to photons, but

1216
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: instead of moving through the fundamental electromagnetic field of the universe,

1217
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: they're moving through a crystal lattice. So we see these

1218
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: same kind of properties emerging in condensed matter that we

1219
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: often see also in the quantum fields of the universe.

1220
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,959
Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of connections between the mathematics

1221
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: of solid objects and the mathematics of space time itself.

1222
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 4: Does that inspire you to make your office more symmetric?

1223
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 4: Are do you work in at constant state of frustration

1224
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 4: as well?

1225
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: No, I'm always asking my department ary. I'm like, can

1226
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: I get a bunch of gold bricks? I'd like to

1227
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: build a really strict, nice lattice to study their symmetry,

1228
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 1: But so far having gotten a single time delivery of

1229
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:01,439
Speaker 1: a single gold brick.

1230
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 4: And you just need to lend him your quantum glasses

1231
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 4: so he can see the future as well.

1232
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: Or maybe he's just going to send me microscopic quantum

1233
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: gold bricks, but are either here nor there.

1234
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 4: Here's one atom of gold, good luck.

1235
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: In this economy, I'd be very happy for even one atom.

1236
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 4: All right, Well, this is an interesting new kind of

1237
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 4: material and with interesting properties that we're learning more about.

1238
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 4: And it sounds like it's just another example of the

1239
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 4: weird things we can find in this messy universe. You know,

1240
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 4: like maybe twenty thirty years ago, we would never have

1241
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 4: imagined that we can make a material that is magnetically frustrated.

1242
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and despite all the mess that we find around us,

1243
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: we can still seek order and find patterns and mathematical

1244
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: tricks to analyze it, which turn out to not just

1245
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 1: help us understand the stuff around us, but also reveal

1246
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: the mathematical patterns that seem to be inherent in the

1247
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: universe itself.

1248
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 4: Well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us,

1249
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 4: Go have a shot of some quantum.

1250
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: Drink, have an electron on me.

1251
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 4: See you next time.

1252
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1253
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1254
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,640
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1255
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:34,040
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