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Speaker 1: In October of two thousand and five, nineteen year old

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Speaker 1: Brandon Woodroff was home from college visiting his parents. They

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Speaker 1: had just moved to a new home in Royce City, Texas.

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Speaker 1: Brandon helped them around the house, and then the family

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Speaker 1: sat down to a pizza dinner. In almost every way,

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Speaker 1: it was a normal Sunday night for the Woodroffs.

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Speaker 2: Everything just seemed to be ordinary. I mean, if I

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Speaker 2: you know, if somebody were to tell me, well it

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Speaker 2: was there one thing that was strange, was there one

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Speaker 2: thing that was odd? And I can't pinpoint anything. It

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Speaker 2: was just a normal weekend. None of this what ended

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Speaker 2: up happening was even I mean, I couldn't even have

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Speaker 2: thought that would have happened.

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Speaker 1: Two days later, Brandon's parents were found brutally murdered. In

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Speaker 1: the days that followed, Brandon was doing his best to

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Speaker 1: try and help investigators find out who had killed them.

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Speaker 2: And then they just flipped the whole table and they

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Speaker 2: were like, well we really think that you murdered your parents.

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Speaker 2: My name is Brendon del Woodriff. I'm thirty six years

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Speaker 2: old from Rockwall, Texas, and I've been wrongly convicted for

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Speaker 2: seventeen years.

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Speaker 1: From LoVa for good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie

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Speaker 1: Freeling today. Brandon Woodruff Brendan Woodruff was born September sixth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, in Rockwall, Texas, to Dennis and Norma Woodruff.

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Speaker 1: Brendan and his sister, Charla are eighteen months apart.

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Speaker 3: He was a baby. Other family.

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Speaker 1: This is Brendan's grandma, Bonnie.

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Speaker 3: Brandon was always a happy child. He just he loved everyone.

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Speaker 3: He was always happy singing when he's a little boy smiling.

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Speaker 1: Brandon describes life growing up as idyllic.

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Speaker 2: We had two wonderful parents. They kind of spoiled us

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Speaker 2: a whole lot, he says.

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Speaker 1: The family was always on the go and participating in

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Speaker 1: community events. Charlie was a dancer and had recitals and shows,

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Speaker 1: and Brandon embraced the country life. The Wooddrifts lived on

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Speaker 1: a farm in the town of Heath, just a few

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Speaker 1: miles south of Rockwall.

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Speaker 2: Kind of a small town. It's really like close knit.

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Speaker 1: And Brandon was involved in the youth agricultural organizations Four

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Speaker 1: Age and Future Farmers of America.

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Speaker 2: My mom gave me this passion for horses, and so

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Speaker 2: my mom was really there to you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: inspire me and teach me things with the horses, with

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Speaker 2: the cattle. Like she was a blue Jean kind of woman.

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Speaker 2: Most moms like cook when my dad cooked, and my

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Speaker 2: mom was out there hauling hay like a hard working guy.

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Speaker 2: And you know, she would go out there with a

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Speaker 2: postal digger and you know, go dig to put a

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Speaker 2: post and build a fence. Yeah, she was definitely like

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Speaker 2: one of the strongest women I've known.

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Speaker 1: Brendan says he and his mom raised livestock to show

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Speaker 1: and sell at markets in the surrounding cities.

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Speaker 2: We would basically get a young count and you basically

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Speaker 2: raise them up since so maybe you halter train them,

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Speaker 2: which can be hectic. And then I didn't really want

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Speaker 2: to do the market steers because then you'd have to

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Speaker 2: sell them to butcher and I really didn't want to butcher.

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Speaker 1: My animals, so Brandon would show them instead, traveling to

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Speaker 1: fairs all over Texas.

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Speaker 2: So it's a lot of hours and three o'clock in

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Speaker 2: the morning drive times to Wago, Texas and Abilene and

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Speaker 2: for war stock show and all different types of rodeo

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Speaker 2: and fairs.

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Speaker 1: So that is a life. I know nothing, but it

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Speaker 1: sounds pretty cool. Brandon loved this life, especially being around horses.

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Speaker 2: Really, I kind of wanted to be a horse trainer,

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Speaker 2: Like I really have this huge horse bug. My mom

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Speaker 2: volunteered at a therapeutic writing center called Equests for like

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Speaker 2: disabled kids and kids with like autism and stuff, and

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Speaker 2: so she used to take me out there to volunteer.

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Speaker 2: You know, it kind of opened my eyes to the

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Speaker 2: world is a little bit different than in your perfect

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Speaker 2: little neighborhoods.

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Speaker 1: Brandon was also really close with his father. He says

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Speaker 1: his dad was really funny, Like.

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Speaker 2: He was kind of embarrassingly funny, Like he was a

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Speaker 2: class clown like I was, kind of. He would just

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Speaker 2: make everybody laugh, and I would have friends come over,

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Speaker 2: and he had blared Tina Turner's Proud Mary, like at

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Speaker 2: eight o'clock in the morning. He would go get donuts,

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Speaker 2: and I would come out and he'd be in the

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Speaker 2: room dancing to Proud Mary, and I've got my friends over,

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Speaker 2: and I'd be like, Dad, are you crazy.

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Speaker 1: One time, Brandon remembers he broke both his legs falling

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Speaker 1: off a horse. For the first two months of recovery,

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Speaker 1: he was bedridden and his dad was totally there for him.

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Speaker 2: And so I had a toilet next to my bed,

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Speaker 2: and I remember when I had to use the toilet,

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Speaker 2: it was so embarrassing for me. You know, I'm already

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Speaker 2: a teenager and I'm having to scoot onto this plastic

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Speaker 2: toilet to use the bathroom. And my dad literally took

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Speaker 2: off work so he could be there. So anytime that,

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Speaker 2: like I needed him, I could just say hey, Dad,

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Speaker 2: you know, and he would come in there and he

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Speaker 2: would claim the whole toilet, like, no questions asked, no embarrassment,

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Speaker 2: no belittle.

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Speaker 1: Mint Brandon says there was a lot of love in

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Speaker 1: the Woodroff household, but internally he was struggling. It started

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Speaker 1: around his high school years in the early two thousands.

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Speaker 2: I basically started to like maybe exploring my sexuality.

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Speaker 1: He had a girlfriend, Morgan, who he really loved, but

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Speaker 1: he also had thoughts and feelings about boys.

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Speaker 2: Coming from a close knit town, there wasn't too many

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Speaker 2: quote unquote gay kids at school. I think we maybe

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Speaker 2: had like one or two, and you know, I was embarrassed,

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Speaker 2: I am to say it now, you know. I was

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Speaker 2: kind of along with the group that kind of made

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Speaker 2: fun of them.

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Speaker 1: So in his world of Rockwall, Texas. Brandon kept his

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Speaker 1: attraction to boys to himself.

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Speaker 2: You know, to my friends that I showed cattle and

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Speaker 2: horses with. I knew that they'd probably not understand, and

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Speaker 2: especially the re action to gay people in my small town.

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Speaker 2: You know, they were just kind of like ostracized a

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Speaker 2: little bit. Like I said, there was maybe only two

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Speaker 2: in my public high school, and I think both of

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Speaker 2: them went to alternative school by the end of their

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Speaker 2: senior year because it would just got too much. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the people call them names, stuff like that. I really

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Speaker 2: didn't see like of the LGBT community in my neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: You know, we definitely didn't have no Pride month. We

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Speaker 2: definitely didn't have no pride parades. We didn't have none

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Speaker 2: of that. So I would actually have to drive into Dallas,

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Speaker 2: which was about thirty five minutes away to go experience

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Speaker 2: any of that stuff. What I would do is I

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Speaker 2: would kind of go out on the weekends. I'd visit

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Speaker 2: like a gay club. I visited a couple of gay bars.

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Speaker 1: Would also go online in chat rooms and MySpace groups

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Speaker 1: for gay men. He says life went on like that

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Speaker 1: for a while.

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Speaker 2: I thought my private world was going to be my

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Speaker 2: private world. Probably like mid Lake senior year in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and five, I really started getting to where I

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Speaker 2: really kind of just did a care. It wasn't like

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Speaker 2: I was advertising my sexuality. I wasn't jumping up and

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Speaker 2: down with a rainbow flag. But I wasn't hiding it

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Speaker 2: at so much because I was going in public places.

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Speaker 2: I was having you know, boyfriends.

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Speaker 1: Then one night, when Brandon was on his way out,

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Speaker 1: his dad asked him the name of the club he

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Speaker 1: was going to.

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Speaker 2: I really didn't want to tell him that it was

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Speaker 2: a gay club, so I just said a club's name

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Speaker 2: on the radio that we had heard, you know, like

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Speaker 2: repeated over the years. And the next day he said,

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Speaker 2: you know that club you went to last night was

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Speaker 2: a gay club. And inadvertently I had given him a

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Speaker 2: gay club's name anyway, And so I actually had a

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Speaker 2: kind of telling him, well, okay, you know, I just

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Speaker 2: told him I didn't know yet at that time, which.

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Speaker 1: Was the truth. Brandon was still trying to find himself

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Speaker 1: and figure it all out.

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Speaker 2: And he told me, you know, be safe, be careful,

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Speaker 2: and he said, when you find out, let me know.

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Speaker 3: Dennis would be the type of person that would accept that,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, here's Brendan's grandma Bonnie. Again.

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Speaker 3: He was accepting the people because he loved people just

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Speaker 3: like Brandon, you know, didn't matter who they was, because

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Speaker 3: he had a friend that was also gay.

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Speaker 2: I've told my dad a lot worse. I could tell

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Speaker 2: my dad anything. I could literally talk to my dad

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Speaker 2: about the bad grades I was making. Now sometimes I

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Speaker 2: would try to hide them to but at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, my Dad's going to be there for

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Speaker 2: me no matter what.

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Speaker 1: So were the bad grades worse than being gay? Is

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Speaker 1: that one of the worst things he told him.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I really think that the back grades would

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Speaker 2: have been a little bit worse than being gay. Like,

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Speaker 2: my parents were like so hands on loving that that's

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Speaker 2: the last thing that they would have really even cared about.

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Speaker 1: Brandon graduated from Rockwall High School in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: five and went on to Abilene Christian University, about three

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Speaker 1: and a half hours away. He found himself struggling in

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Speaker 1: his first semester. He was put on academic probation and

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Speaker 1: was on the verge of failing out of college. His

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Speaker 1: parents told him they could no longer support him financially

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Speaker 1: if that happened and that he'd have to come back home.

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Speaker 1: But Brandon wasn't worried about money. He would wear designer clothes,

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Speaker 1: go on shopping sprees, and eat out often, which led

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Speaker 1: his college friends to believe he came from a wealthy family,

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Speaker 1: but the reality was Brandon was acting in pornographic movies

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Speaker 1: to make money. Though he told his friends he had

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Speaker 1: taken up modeling, most of his money was coming from

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Speaker 1: making porn, but with his spending habits, he was racking

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Speaker 1: up credit card debt. In October of that first semester

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Speaker 1: in college, Brandon came home for a few days to

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Speaker 1: see his parents and help them out. His parents had

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Speaker 1: just bought a trailer home in Royce City, about fourteen

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Speaker 1: miles north. They still had some things at their place

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Speaker 1: in Heath and needed help moving.

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Speaker 2: I guess it was like a foreclosed property. So there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of stuff that my mom wanted to

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Speaker 2: do to get the horses out there eventually, and so

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Speaker 2: I was just home, you know, to help her and

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Speaker 2: help my dad a little bit.

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Speaker 1: On the evening of October sixteenth, the Woodroff family sat

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Speaker 1: down for a pizza dinner in their new place.

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Speaker 2: Everything just seemed to be ordinary. I mean, if I

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Speaker 2: you know, if somebody were to tell me, well it

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Speaker 2: was there one thing that was stranged? Was there one

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Speaker 2: thing that was odd? And I can't pinpoint anything. It

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Speaker 2: was just a normal weekend.

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Speaker 1: After the dinner, Brandon headed out for the evening. He

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Speaker 1: plans on coming back to Roy City in a few

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Speaker 1: days to take Father's Day pictures with his sister Charla,

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Speaker 1: who would also be home from school.

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Speaker 2: And so really I was expecting to see them, you know,

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Speaker 2: in four days. So what ended up happening was even

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Speaker 2: I mean, I couldn't even have thought that would have happened.

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Speaker 1: Shortly after seven pm on October sixteenth, Brandon left his parents'

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Speaker 1: home to go out with friends, first stopping by their

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Speaker 1: old home in Heath, about twenty four minutes away. A

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Speaker 1: bit after ten that night, a neighbor saw Brandon in

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Speaker 1: the driveway of the Heath house. Then Brandon picked up

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Speaker 1: some friends around ten forty pm and went to Dallas

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Speaker 1: to party with them and his boyfriend, Alex. Brandon drove

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Speaker 1: back to school in Abilene in the early hours the

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Speaker 1: following morning. Later that day, on the seventeenth, people started

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Speaker 1: becoming concerned about Dennis and Norma Woodruff. They didn't show

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Speaker 1: up to work, which was unusual for them, and no

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Speaker 1: one had seen or spoken to them since nine pm

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Speaker 1: the night before, when Norma talked with her mother on

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Speaker 1: the phone. Charla had called her parents from school at

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Speaker 1: eleven pm on Sunday night and had not heard back,

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Speaker 1: so she contacted her aunt Linda on the eighteenth, two

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Speaker 1: days after they were last heard from. Linda reached out

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Speaker 1: to a family friend to go over to the Woodruff's

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Speaker 1: new home to check on them. A couple of friends

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Speaker 1: showed up, knocked and got no response, so they opened

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Speaker 1: a window with a pride bar to see what was

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Speaker 1: going on. Once inside, they found a horrific scene. Dennis

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Speaker 1: and Norma's dead bodies were seated on their couch. They'd

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Speaker 1: each been shot and stabbed several times. This episode is

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Speaker 1: underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. AIG is

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Speaker 1: committed to corporate social responsibility and to making a positive

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Speaker 1: difference in the lives of its employees and in the

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Speaker 1: communities where they work and live. In light of the

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Speaker 1: compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and in recognition

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Speaker 1: of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform. The

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Speaker 1: AIG pro bono program provides free legal services and other

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Speaker 1: support to underrepresented communities and individuals. When investigators from the

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Speaker 1: Hunt County Sheriff's Office arrived at the Woodriffs trailer home,

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Speaker 1: they found a crime scene covered in blood, yet they

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Speaker 1: failed to wear protective foot coverings. And what's even more bizarre,

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Speaker 1: they began investigating in the dark.

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Speaker 4: They think, well, this is how the murderers would have

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Speaker 4: seen the house. So we're going to turn off the

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Speaker 4: lights in the house and that's how we're going to

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Speaker 4: walk around and make our crime scene video. And during

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Speaker 4: course of doing that, you know, they're knocking stuff off,

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Speaker 4: They're destroying all kinds of potential evidence of the sea.

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Speaker 4: They literally investigated the crime in the dark.

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Speaker 1: This is Alison Clayton. She's the deputy director of the

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Speaker 1: Innocence Project of Texas and the adjunct professor of the

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Speaker 1: Innocence Clinic at Texas Tech University School of Law. Allison

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Speaker 1: says that inside the trailer it's unclear what had been

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Speaker 1: disturbed by the crime or by the investigators stumbling around

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Speaker 1: in the dark, But what seems clear is that there

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Speaker 1: were strange items found laying around the house. Flavored condom

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Speaker 1: packets were strewn about, along with an extensive pornography collection

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Speaker 1: and an air mattress completely inflated. On top of the

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Speaker 1: mattress were two pairs of women's capri pants that were

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Speaker 1: way too big to fit Norma. Brandon says none of

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Speaker 1: this was there when he left on that Sunday night.

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Speaker 1: Joel Gibson was the lead investigator on the case along

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Speaker 1: with Texas Ranger Jeff Collins, and Brandon was their lead suspect.

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Speaker 1: He was the last person known to have seen his parents.

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Speaker 2: And they were like, well, we really think that you

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Speaker 2: murdered your parents. And I just I didn't know what

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Speaker 2: to think. You know, I wasn't raised a cuss out

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Speaker 2: of law enforcement officer or anything, and I just I

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Speaker 2: just kind of lost it because I thought, you do

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Speaker 2: not know what you're talking about, Like you don't know

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Speaker 2: who these people are. These are my parents, these like

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Speaker 2: are the people who raised me.

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Speaker 1: Brendan was devastated his parents had been violently murdered and

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Speaker 1: here he was being accused of killing them. And what

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Speaker 1: stung even more his sister, Charla turned on him. She

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Speaker 1: told police she thought that Brandon could have done it.

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Speaker 2: I think my sister's sentence that has been repeated over

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Speaker 2: and over, well, if you could lie about being gay,

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Speaker 2: then he could lie by killing my parents.

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Speaker 1: On November tenth, two thousand and five, Brendan was indicted

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Speaker 1: for capital murder. His grandma Bonnie was horrified.

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Speaker 3: I knew Brandon couldn't have couldn't have done anything to

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Speaker 3: his parents. She loved both his parents. He said he's dead,

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Speaker 3: was his best friend. So I know, you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: even more convinced today. I know what type of person

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Speaker 3: he is and what love he has for people and

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Speaker 3: for God. So I know Brandon Wood. As for the investigators,

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Speaker 3: I just think they were a small town and they

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Speaker 3: were a little bit lazy. They just wanted to wrap

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Speaker 3: the case up because it makes the neighborhood feel better

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Speaker 3: and say.

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Speaker 4: They knew that Brandon was the last person to see

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Speaker 4: them alive, because you know, they knew that he had

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Speaker 4: gone and gotten the pizza.

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Speaker 1: This is Alison Clayton again, and is.

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Speaker 4: The fact that there was no forced entry into the house,

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Speaker 4: so they thought that that indicated that it was somebody

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Speaker 4: that the would have's knew.

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Speaker 1: Allison says that investigators quickly homed in on Brandon not

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Speaker 1: only for those reasons, but also because the police had

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Speaker 1: discovered his secret life.

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Speaker 4: So then that was a large part of their motive.

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Speaker 4: That Brandon was leading this double life, that he was

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Speaker 4: coming home and helping his parents move on the weekend

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Speaker 4: and then going out and partying at gay night clubs,

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Speaker 4: and you know, participating in all these activities, and that

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Speaker 4: they were about to find out and his grades were bad,

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Speaker 4: and he had credit card debt, and so you know,

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Speaker 4: they were about to cut him off, and so he

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Speaker 4: was just terrified that he was going to get cut off,

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Speaker 4: and so in an act of indescribable violence, the way

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Speaker 4: these people were murdered was very, very violent. You know,

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Speaker 4: he just decides to murder his parents.

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Speaker 1: Brandon's trial started on March sixth, two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: in front of the Honorable Judge Richard Beakham Junior, the

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Speaker 1: current governor of Texas. Greg Abbott was the state's attorney

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Speaker 1: general at the time, and he was appointed as a

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Speaker 1: special prosecutor on the case. The state presented the theory

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Speaker 1: that Brandon was living a double life, having money troubles

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Speaker 1: and failing out of school, all of which he wanted

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Speaker 1: to keep secret from his parents.

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Speaker 4: But mainly, really the state's only motive that Brandon would

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Speaker 4: have had to do this is that he was gay.

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Speaker 4: That's it.

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Speaker 1: He's gay.

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Speaker 4: His parents are going to find out about it, and

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Speaker 4: so he just has to kill them right now. And

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Speaker 4: remember again, this is small town Texas, early two thousands,

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Speaker 4: uber uber conservative, so the mention of oh, well he

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Speaker 4: was gay would have been plenty to start raising eyebrows like,

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Speaker 4: oh my goodness, he was gay.

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Speaker 1: What is shame like?

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Speaker 4: That's what would have been the sentimentality someone coming from

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Speaker 4: small town Texas in the early two thousands.

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Speaker 1: The state offered no real hard evidence against Brandon. It

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Speaker 1: was mostly speculation.

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Speaker 2: I think they got caught up in this whole story

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Speaker 2: of well, he had a double life. He was wearing

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Speaker 2: boots and jeans, and then he was wearing city clothes,

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Speaker 2: and he was, you know, like they felt like he

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00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,159
Speaker 2: was a lot more sinister, when really it was just

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Speaker 2: me being myself. I mean I would wear boots and

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Speaker 2: jeans when I was around the horses and stuff, and

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Speaker 2: then I would wear you know what they'd call like

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Speaker 2: city clothes, I guess to you know, the bars and

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Speaker 2: clubs and stuff. But your clothing doesn't make you who

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Speaker 2: you are. And your clothing doesn't make you a killer.

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Speaker 2: And you lagging guys and girls or just guys or

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Speaker 2: just girls, they doesn't make you a killer either.

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Speaker 1: But there was one thing. Brandon's girlfriend, Morgan's parents noticed

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Speaker 1: that a Western style revolver was missing from their home.

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Speaker 1: They didn't know how long it had been missing, but

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Speaker 1: they remembered that the night before the murder, Brandon had

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Speaker 1: showered at their house and so would have been able

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Speaker 1: to take the revolver.

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Speaker 4: And so police were thinking that that you know, had

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Speaker 4: corroborated their suspicions of Brandon because he would have had

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Speaker 4: the opportunity to still the gun. They viewed that as

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Speaker 4: inculpatory evidence that he had the opportunity to get what

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Speaker 4: they thought would be the murder weapon.

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Speaker 1: The gun used in the murders was never recovered, but

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Speaker 1: the state offered expert testimony that the gun missing from

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Speaker 1: Morgan's home could have theoretically been the one used to

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Speaker 1: commit the murders. One of the main things the state

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Speaker 1: focused on during trial was Brandon's cell phone records to

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Speaker 1: try and disprove Brandon's alibi that he was driving around

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Speaker 1: picking up friends and heading to a club. However, because

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Speaker 1: of a merger between cell phone companies, many of Brandon's

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Speaker 1: calls during the crucial Sunday night time period were missing,

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Speaker 1: and that didn't bode well for the defense. After both

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Speaker 1: sides presented, the jury deliberated for five hours, and.

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Speaker 2: You know, it was just the whole time, I kept

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Speaker 2: telling myself, well, Okay, everything's gonna be. Okay, everything is

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Speaker 2: gonna be. I never would have thought they were going

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Speaker 2: to return a guilty verdict ever, Like I really felt

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Speaker 2: like I was going home that day, but he didn't.

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Speaker 1: Brandon was convicted by a jury of murdering his parents

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Speaker 1: on March twentieth, two nine.

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Speaker 2: So they said guilty, and I was like, like I

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Speaker 2: really just wanted to sit down, Like I wanted to

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Speaker 2: sit down. I wanted to like just breathe. I was

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Speaker 2: really kind of freaking out.

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Speaker 1: But Brandon was told to remain standing while his sister,

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Speaker 1: Charlotte gave a victim impact.

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Speaker 2: Statement where my sister got up there and basically just

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Speaker 2: told me how I ruined her whole life and told

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Speaker 2: me how, you know, because of my actions. And that

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Speaker 2: was the hardest thing to hear because I'm sitting here

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Speaker 2: thinking to myself, I did not do this, and I

395
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Speaker 2: just had to stand there and be quiet and accept it.

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Speaker 2: And I think that was the hardest thing in my

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Speaker 2: entire life. And I will never forget.

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Speaker 1: That you had to sit there and listen to your

399
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Speaker 1: sister not believe you, Like what is that?

400
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Speaker 5: Like?

401
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: Like this is a person you grew up with. She's

402
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 1: supposed to know you better than anybody.

403
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I you know, it makes so many questions

404
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 2: come up, like why, like why are you doing this?

405
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 2: Like I don't know. It's really hard to just grabb

406
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 2: I mean, even to this day, it's hard to grasp.

407
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 1: At twenty two years old, Brendan was sentenced to life

408
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: in prison without parole. Even though his relationship with Charlie

409
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Speaker 1: was strained, Brendan's grandma Bonnie never let him down.

410
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Speaker 3: About every three months, we'd traveled down to see him,

411
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Speaker 3: and we'd spend the night and go early the next

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Speaker 3: morning and we'd get to stay four hours with him

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Speaker 3: and set across the table from him. He never gave up,

414
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Speaker 3: and he always claimed his innocens And I knew he

415
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 3: lifts me up. He's the type of person that lifts

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Speaker 3: you up and makes you feel better about if he's

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Speaker 3: not a person this day on all the time.

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Speaker 2: She's like my angel, She's like my rock. I tell

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Speaker 2: people that all the time. I'm like, that's my angel

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Speaker 2: right there. I mean she's never once even like faltered

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Speaker 2: from the truth. She's been like there's no way, absolutely,

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00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 2: I believe in you. She doesn't care who she has

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Speaker 2: to stand up and tell that to, including the investigators.

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Speaker 2: She's like, you know, show me proof, Like quit telling me,

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Speaker 2: y'all have proof, show me something.

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Speaker 1: With Bonnie by his side, Brandon spent years in prison

427
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Speaker 1: appealing his decision to no avail. But while he stayed

428
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Speaker 1: up beat in front of his grandmother, inside his emotions

429
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: were a different story. Prison is a hard place for anyone,

430
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Speaker 1: especially a young man finding himself.

431
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Speaker 2: You gotta have walls put up anyway. You got to

432
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: be like a different person in here. You can't be,

433
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Speaker 2: you know, to cry you're weak, or to be gay

434
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 2: you're a little bit weaker, or so you always have

435
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Speaker 2: to kind of like prove yourself. So I just stay

436
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 2: out of really everybody's a way. I don't really even

437
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: talk to too many people here.

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Speaker 1: Brendan spends much of his time in prison, taking classes

439
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: or working in the craft shop.

440
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 2: Are you wearing a wedding ring? Actually? I made this

441
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: in the crash, did so? Yeah? I started working with

442
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 2: like metal and stuff like that. Okay, we're allowed like

443
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: a few what they call in prison free world items.

444
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: So you can have a wedding band, a watch, and

445
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: then you can have like a cross.

446
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: Necklace and it can only be a wedding ring.

447
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you cannot have any other rings or jewelry or

448
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: that's considered a contrabmand.

449
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 4: There are certain red flags that we look for in

450
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 4: every single case. Brandon exhibits a lot of them.

451
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, Alison Clayton from the Innocence Project

452
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: of Texas took on Brandon's case.

453
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 4: First red flag, you don't know anything about the victims.

454
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 4: That is a good investigation. Will away start out with

455
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 4: who are these victims? Why did they meet this horrific end?

456
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 3: Right?

457
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 4: A good investigation that's bent on figuring out what happened

458
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 4: to these people and not bent on painting a bullseye

459
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 4: around someone like you've already chosen who did it? A

460
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 4: good investigation starts with the victims.

461
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: So who were Norma and Dennis?

462
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: They weren't judgmental. They weren't you know, my mom volunteered

463
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 2: for adults and children that really allot of the world

464
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: wouldn't have nothing to do with them because they can't

465
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: come sit at a dinner table, you know, normally and functionally.

466
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 2: And I mean, my dad used to go to these

467
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: drag shows for guys that would dress up like Dolly

468
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 2: Parton and Tina Turner, like the five five, you know,

469
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: and so like, I feel really really bad that the

470
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: jury didn't get to learn about who my parents were like.

471
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: They did not humanize my parents because they would know

472
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 2: that my dad's best friend from high school and college

473
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 2: is openly gay. They're basically not only accusing me of

474
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 2: killing my parents because I was gay and had a lifestyle,

475
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 2: but they're also accusing my parents of being so judgmental

476
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 2: that they wouldn't have loved their son if he was gay.

477
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: You're telling me that my parents are basically like hateful people.

478
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: In fact, at trial, Brandon's lawyers presented that Brandon's dad

479
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: did know about Brandon's sexuality. It wasn't a secret from him.

480
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: On the evening of the sixteenth, the night the Woodruffs

481
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: were presumably murdered. Dennis spoke on the phone with his

482
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: sister Kathy.

483
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 4: During that phone call, is whenever Dennis told his sister,

484
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 4: you know, Brandon told me that he likes boys, and

485
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 4: he told his sister, you know, he was okay with it,

486
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 4: that he loved Brandon, and he's fine with it. It's

487
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 4: just he was worried about Brandon because that can be

488
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 4: a dangerous lifestyle. So this entire idea that his parents

489
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 4: would have rejected him because of his sexuality, there is

490
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 4: no basis in fact for that.

491
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: Alison goes on to outline a key part of Brandon's

492
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 1: defense at trial, his alibi. We know Brandon was out

493
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: of his parents' house a bit after seven pm, because

494
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: cell phone records show he called them at seven thirty

495
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 1: six pm, indicating he had already left the house.

496
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 4: But after that, Brandon wasn't really with anybody after the

497
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 4: time he left his parents' house until much later that

498
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 4: night when he met up with his friend back in Dallas.

499
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 4: So it's not we have somebody who can say, yes,

500
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 4: he was with me, this is what we were doing.

501
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 4: So in those instances, normally we would go back to

502
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 4: the cell phone records.

503
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: But remember there were missing records during the crucial time

504
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: because of the cell phone company merger, so Brandon's team

505
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: relied on piecing together other people's records, people who he

506
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: said he was on the phone with. Allison says this

507
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: timeline is the most important part of the case.

508
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 4: The first time in Brandon's phone records that we have

509
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 4: really anything is whenever we have that pang at ten

510
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 4: forty six, where he's around I thirty and six thirty five.

511
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: This intersection is about twenty minutes away from both of

512
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: Brandon's parents' homes. A neighbor had seen Brandon down at

513
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: the heath House just after ten pm.

514
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 4: He would have been about twenty minutes away from them

515
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 4: at ten forty six, which means he would have left

516
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 4: from either Royce City or Heath at around ten twenty

517
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 4: six that night.

518
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: And Norma spoke to her mother on the phone that

519
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: night as well.

520
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 4: If the last time that anyone spoke to the Woodruffs

521
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 4: was that call between Norma and her mom from nine

522
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 4: to nine twenty, then you look at everything else. In

523
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 4: my analysis, I look at everything from nine to twenty

524
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 4: that evening until ten twenty.

525
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: Six, leaving Brandon with just an hour where he could

526
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: have killed his parents. But the timeline shrinks even.

527
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 4: More during that time. You've got the call at nine

528
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 4: twenty seven from Brandon to Alex, nine thirty two to

529
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 4: Morgan nine forty one with Morgan nine forty nine, with

530
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 4: the room that he was taking back, ten ten to Morgan,

531
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 4: and then that's that. So you've got five phone calls

532
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 4: during that hour, and between those phone calls, I'm terrible

533
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 4: with math, but it's looking to me like, I mean,

534
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 4: there's about maybe ten minutes, ten eleven minutes tops that

535
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 4: you have in between any of these phone calls.

536
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: Allison says that in such a short amount of time,

537
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: it's unrealistic, if not impossible, that Brandon would have been

538
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: able to pull all of this off, shoot and stab

539
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: both of his parents, shower, change his clothes and shoes,

540
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: hide his clothes and shoes, clean the bathroom, clean the

541
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: knife and gun, ditch the gun and hide the knife.

542
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 4: A man who has zero history of violence, so either

543
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 4: he is, i mean, just committing a vicious crime against

544
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 4: his parents in really really efficient style, which I've never

545
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 4: seen anyone inflict the number of wounds that these people

546
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 4: had on them in ten minutes time. Or you're assuming

547
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 4: that he's in the course of murdering his parents, he

548
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 4: gets a phone call from Morgan and you know, hey, Morgan,

549
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 4: how's it going. Everything's fine over here? What are you doing?

550
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 4: Or you know, you hang up and you go back

551
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 4: to murdering your parents, and then your boyfriend college you're like, oh,

552
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 4: hey Alex, yep, I'm going to be there later on

553
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 4: this evening. Yeah, I've just got to finish up here

554
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 4: and we're going to go and we're going to party

555
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 4: in Dallas all night long. And then you hang up

556
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 4: and you keep on murdering your parents. Neither one of

557
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 4: those scenarios makes sense to me.

558
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: So Allison has a different theory. It wasn't Brandon, and

559
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: she says the crime scene points to that. Remember the

560
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: air mattress, the women's parts, the porn, and the condoms.

561
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: I know for a fact that my dad has a mysectomy,

562
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 2: because he's actually told me that on multiple occasions. In fact,

563
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: you know, he had told me so much it became

564
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: a joke. And so I tell myself, like, why would

565
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: you need a condom if you had a mysegnamin?

566
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 4: And then the pornography collection, why would you have a

567
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 4: pornography collection out there's it's just there feels there are

568
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 4: some very overtly sexual elements that are a part of

569
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 4: the crime scenes. I think there's definitely something going on there.

570
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: Not only that, but Norma was found with long blonde

571
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: hairs in her hands and those hairs were never tested

572
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: for the original trial.

573
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 4: They did not test the hair in the dead woman's hand,

574
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 4: which is just befuddling to me. You know, if you're

575
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 4: truly investigating, truly trying to find out who did this that,

576
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 4: what would you do? Like, you don't have to be

577
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 4: an investigator, don't have to have FBI training or anything advanced.

578
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 4: What do you do? You test the hair in the

579
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 4: dead woman's hands? But they didn't do that, so to

580
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 4: this day, we don't know who that hair belongs to.

581
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: Since Alison and the Innocence Project of Texas have taken

582
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: Brandon's case, they have actively fought for DNA testing of

583
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: the hair and any other items that exist from the

584
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: crime scene.

585
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 4: Is that evidence still available for us to go look at?

586
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: I don't know. We filed requests with you know, law enforcement,

587
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 4: with the DA's office. We're trying to figure out, you know,

588
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 4: where's the hair what about everything else. I don't know

589
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 4: where those things are at. I don't know if they

590
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 4: have been maintained. They should have been, but i mean,

591
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 4: come on, at Texas. Just because it should it doesn't

592
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 4: mean it happened.

593
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: While Brandon waits, he concentrates on the future he'll have

594
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: when he's out.

595
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: You know, growing up, I've always wanted to adopt a kid,

596
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: like I've even told you know, my girlfriend at the time.

597
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, you know, if we ever have kids,

598
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: like I would rather have like one on my own

599
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: and adopt one. In college, I was a part of

600
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: the Big Brother Little Brother program, and so that really

601
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: opened my eyes to you know, there's a lot of

602
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 2: kids and you know, a lot less fortunate places and situations.

603
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: Now I look, you know, looking at myself now, I'm like, okay,

604
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 2: you're thirty six. You might be thirty seven or thirty

605
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: eight before something, you know, goes on with your case.

606
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: And then at least for a couple of years, I

607
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: want to just hang out and spend time with the

608
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 2: people who took care.

609
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: Of me, especially his grandma Bonnie.

610
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: My grandmother's like a very avid traveler, and I'm just

611
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: like me and me look one day when I come home,

612
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: we're not going to sit down like I don't want

613
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: to be idle. I've been idle for too long now.

614
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: But in thinking about all the people who were there

615
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: for him, Brendan can't help but think about the people

616
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: who weren't, like his sister Charla.

617
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: You know, it's been over ten years and I can

618
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: still remember some of the things she said, and yet

619
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: I still love my sister. So it's it's really, you know,

620
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: a torn, torn feeling right there.

621
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: Brendan says that although his parents are gone, they're always

622
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: with him, and that inspires him to keep going.

623
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: It's a lot more personal than what a lot of

624
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 2: people think. People are thinking, oh, well, you know, the

625
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 2: truth is going to come out one day, but there's

626
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: you know, there's not justice for me right now, but

627
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 2: there's also not justice for my parents either, And so

628
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 2: I told myself, you know, I'm gonna make this count.

629
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: Like my parents need, you know, justice, but they also need,

630
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: you know, some change in Texas. Something good can come

631
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: from this, and maybe that can be like my parents'

632
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: legacy is to help what needs to be fixed in

633
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: the justice system. I don't want this to just be

634
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: like Okay, Well, he's innocent, he's free, and we're going

635
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: to let this go. I mean, I think there needs

636
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: to be at least some change, because this should never, ever,

637
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 2: ever have happened to me, and it definitely shouldn't happen

638
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 2: in the future.

639
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: To learn more about Brandon's case and show your support,

640
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: visit Freebrandon dot org and you can sign a petition

641
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: for his exoneration at change dot org. Next time, on

642
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling, Deb Nichols.

643
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 5: You could see the emergency lights since we were coming

644
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 5: up the street, and I got out of the car

645
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 5: and started rounding around the corner and it was my

646
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 5: house and it was on fire. I was literally terrified,

647
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 5: and my brain was like, I just I need to

648
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 5: get to the back and make sure the kids are okay.

649
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please

650
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: support your local innocence organizations and go to the links

651
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: in our bio to see how you can help. I'd

652
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: like to thank our executive producers Jason and Kevin Wordis,

653
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea, producer Lyla Robinson,

654
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: and story editor Sonia Paul The show is edited and

655
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: mixed by Annie Chelsea, with additional production by Jeff Cliburn

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Speaker 1: and Connor Hall. The music in this production is by

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Speaker 1: three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to

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Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at

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Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as

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Speaker 1: well as at Lava for Good. On all three platforms,

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Speaker 1: you can also follow me on both Instagram and Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a

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Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal

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Speaker 1: Company Number one