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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hi, everyone, it's Paul muldoon. Before we get to

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Speaker 1: this episode, I wanted to let you know that you

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Speaker 1: can binge all twelve episodes of McCartney A Life and

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Speaker 1: Lyrics right now, add free by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber.

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Speaker 1: Find Pushkin Plus on the McCartney A Life and Lyrics Show,

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Speaker 1: pedge in Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot fm, slash plus.

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Speaker 2: The Castle's last words, Yes.

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Speaker 3: Was a dare.

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Speaker 4: Justin Hoffmann said to me, can you write a song

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Speaker 4: about anything? I said, Wow, I don't know. Maybe you know,

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Speaker 4: He said, just a minute, and he ran upstairs. He

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Speaker 4: came back down with the newspaper article about the depth

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Speaker 4: of Picastle, and he said, see what Pocasta's last words were.

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Speaker 4: His last words to his friends were, drink to me.

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Speaker 4: Drink to my health. You know I can't drink anymore.

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Speaker 1: You drink to me.

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Speaker 4: Dream do my health.

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Speaker 5: You know I can't dream any move.

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Speaker 1: I'm Paul Wildon for a while now, I've been fortunate

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Speaker 1: to spend time with one of the greatest songwriters of

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Speaker 1: the era.

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Speaker 3: And will you look at me, I'm going on to it.

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Speaker 3: I'm actually a performer.

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Speaker 1: That is Sir Paul McCartney. We worked together on a

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Speaker 1: book looking at the lyrics of more than one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty of his songs, and we recorded many hours

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Speaker 1: of our conversations.

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Speaker 4: It was like going back to an old snapshot album

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Speaker 4: looking back on work I hadn't ever analyzed.

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Speaker 1: This is McCartney, a life in lyrics, a masterclass, a memoir,

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Speaker 1: and an improvised journey with one of the most iconic

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Speaker 1: figures in popular music. In this episode Picasso's last words

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Speaker 1: drink to Me. McCartney met Dustin Hoffman on a nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy three trip to Montego Bay, Jamaica, where Hoffman and

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Speaker 1: Steve McQueen were filming the historical prison drama Papillon. Hoffman

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Speaker 1: had invited Paul and his wife Linda to his home

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Speaker 1: for a dinner party, and after dinner, the actor issued

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Speaker 1: the song a musical challenge. He read them an article

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Speaker 1: that had been published in Time magazine earlier that year.

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Speaker 6: Right up to the end, picquetulst no Time. The day

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Speaker 6: before he died, I had been a day like many

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Speaker 6: others at Notre Dame de vill his Hiltop villa at

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Speaker 6: Mouja on the French Revivia. Late in the afternoon, the

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Speaker 6: artist had taken a walk in the little part that

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Speaker 6: surrounds his sprawling stonehouse, overlooking the reddish foothills of the

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Speaker 6: Maritime Apps.

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Speaker 1: It was Adare. Hoffman wanted to know if the legendary

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Speaker 1: musician really could make music from anything.

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Speaker 3: So he could write a song about that.

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Speaker 4: I did happen to have my guitar with me, so

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Speaker 4: I accord and started singing a melody to those words.

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Speaker 4: And he was FLABBERGASTU his then wife, He's not with

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Speaker 4: her anymore any I think it was.

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Speaker 3: Annie, Annie, come here? Can we listen to this? Listen, listen,

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Speaker 3: look at this.

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Speaker 4: I just came.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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Speaker 5: Listen.

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Speaker 4: He's got the song Brandoater bad less night.

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Speaker 2: He's painting.

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Speaker 6: Later that evening, Piso and his wife Jacqueline entertained friends

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Speaker 6: for dinner. Pikasu was in high spirit.

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Speaker 7: He bad us well, said night to us.

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Speaker 6: Drinking, drinking my health, he urged, drinking, drink, you know

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Speaker 6: I can't drink anymore, drink more. At eleven thirty, he

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Speaker 6: rose from the table and announced, and now I'm let's

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Speaker 6: go back to work.

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Speaker 3: You know what dream any.

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Speaker 1: In an interview, Hoffman recounted what it was like to

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Speaker 1: see McCartney write the song before his eyes.

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Speaker 8: I swear by all that's holy that he began singing

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Speaker 8: this song of the story that I had just told

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Speaker 8: him about Picasso. It just came out of him. Drink

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Speaker 8: to me, drink too, my health. You know I can't

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Speaker 8: drink anymore three o'clock in the morning. It's right under

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Speaker 8: childbirth in terms of great events of my life. I mean,

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Speaker 8: I was at the birth of something. The fact is

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Speaker 8: that he didn't come back the next day. He didn't

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Speaker 8: even start fiddling around. It was literally immediate I finished

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Speaker 8: the story and he strummed his guitar.

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Speaker 4: It was a sort of you know, can you write this?

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Speaker 4: It was almost he set me a little task.

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Speaker 3: And I like the words.

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Speaker 4: So then I thought, well, I've got to kind of

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Speaker 4: set it up. The grand old painter tired last night.

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Speaker 4: His paintings on the wall four wenty bad us well

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Speaker 4: and say good night to us all.

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Speaker 3: So then that's his this quote.

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Speaker 2: May I just say something about that we're talking about

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Speaker 2: drama earlier on. You know, the fact that the speaker

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Speaker 2: of the song yeah is in the scene is very important.

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Speaker 2: R Yeah, because he bad us, well, it's not he

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Speaker 2: bad them well, he bad us well. And when it's

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Speaker 2: us well. The beauty of that is I suppose that

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Speaker 2: not only is the speaker involved, but they bring in

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Speaker 2: the listener, so we're all there immediately.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I hadn't thought of it like that, but that's true. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: In recent weeks he had been working especially hard preparing

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Speaker 6: for a big show of his latest paintings at the

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Speaker 6: Book's Palace in May. On this night, before he went

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Speaker 6: to bed, he painted until three am.

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Speaker 5: Three coup in mine.

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Speaker 4: I'm getting very bad.

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Speaker 2: I suppose that one could set one could musicalize quote

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Speaker 2: unquote any sentence any English language. Maybe not any, but many.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the language has its own intrinsic musicality. I

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Speaker 2: suppose how often quote yes, how often does the rhythm

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Speaker 2: of the words themselves influence how the let's call it

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Speaker 2: the melody might turn out all the time, all.

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Speaker 4: The time, all the time. You want to get something

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Speaker 4: that rolls along naturally and that's interesting at the same time,

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Speaker 4: but that fits with the music you're hearing with it.

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Speaker 4: So sometimes you have to alter a word because it

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Speaker 4: just doesn't quite work with them either. So you look

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Speaker 4: for something that says the same thing, but just it's

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Speaker 4: an alternate word. Maybe it's now it's a two syllable

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Speaker 4: word instead of the one syllable word. That didn't work

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Speaker 4: all the other way around. But I'll be waiting for you, waiting,

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Speaker 4: I'll be waiting for you there. So, yeah, it's very

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Speaker 4: important that the rhythm sounds natural.

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Speaker 3: When it isn't, it can sticks out of the sort

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Speaker 3: of thumb. I know how.

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Speaker 1: Paul McCartney took inspiration from everywhere. Talking to him that day,

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Speaker 1: I remembered a poem by the seventeenth century poet Ben Johnson.

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Speaker 1: It had been covered by Johnny Cash, Drink to.

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Speaker 4: Me only with thine eyes and I will play with my.

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Speaker 2: Would you have been conscious of Ben Johnson's or some

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Speaker 2: version of Ben Johnson's song Drink to me only with

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Speaker 2: thine eyes or whatever it is? Yes, ancient, yes, ancient,

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Speaker 2: drink to me.

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Speaker 3: I will drink too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've heard it.

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Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I didn't think of that, because the

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Speaker 4: whole thought here was just the challenge of doing it

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Speaker 4: for Dustan, you know. So I was just concentrated on

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Speaker 4: the words he stuck in front of me, And I

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Speaker 4: think what was nice was that he obviously seeing it,

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Speaker 4: stroke heard it as melodic.

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Speaker 2: So he recognized that probably had possibility.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he recognized the I think, don't you if you

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Speaker 4: think about it. You know he's an actor anyway.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right, he's a singer, really. I mean, he's

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Speaker 2: a vocalist, vocal rhythm of words.

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Speaker 4: And I think when he read the quote, most people

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Speaker 4: would probably think, wow, so that's what he said. But

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Speaker 4: I think Dustin, I'm guessing here, but I would guess

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Speaker 4: that he would think, oh no, this flows beautifully.

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Speaker 3: Drink to me, drink to my health. You know, I

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Speaker 3: can't drink any more. Pump pa pump pump pumpo.

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Speaker 4: You know there's like a nice little mathematical equation. Well so, yeah,

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Speaker 4: so it was a pleasure. It was a great pleasure

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Speaker 4: to do it, just to shut.

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Speaker 7: Off dem any more.

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Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffman remembered reading the article about because those last

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Speaker 1: words and talking with Paul McCartney about the famous pinter.

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Speaker 8: And I was so struck by that sentence that I thought, well,

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Speaker 8: he must mean that he can't drink anymore because he

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Speaker 8: doesn't want to get too high, because he has to

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Speaker 8: go back and work. And in some strange way, you know,

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Speaker 8: I can't drink anymore, also means it's the last time

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Speaker 8: I'm going to be doing this with my friends, because

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Speaker 8: I'm going to dine in a few hours many more.

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Speaker 4: I like that that it was probably just something ordinary

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Speaker 4: that was said earnestly, you know, farewell to his friends. Well,

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Speaker 4: it becomes his last words. Then it becomes a quote

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Speaker 4: in an article. Then Dustin reads it and makes it

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Speaker 4: more than a quote, and it suggests it's a poem,

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Speaker 4: it's a lyric, and he shows it to me, and

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Speaker 4: I agree with his suggestion, and I for music to it.

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Speaker 4: So it's a nice little way for things to happen.

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Speaker 1: Because the song starts with the story of Picasso's last words,

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Speaker 1: but after a minute or two it splinters into a montage.

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Speaker 1: Among other things, there's a clip from an advertisement for

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Speaker 1: a French tourism service offering French language programs and farm

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Speaker 1: houses available for visitors to rent. Picasso lived much of

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Speaker 1: his life in France, but it's not immediately obvious what

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Speaker 1: the connection is in the song. Why does the song

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Speaker 1: move into such abstraction. One might wager that it was

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Speaker 1: a pinterly choice by McCartney. He himself is a photographer

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Speaker 1: and pinter, and he's learned a thing or two about

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Speaker 1: abstract art from other practitioners, especially the Dutch American expressionist Vielanning.

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Speaker 4: When I started painting for years before, I'd had this

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Speaker 4: idea that it must be meaningful, the painting. It just

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Speaker 4: had to have some significance, some significant meaning, and it

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Speaker 4: stopped me completely.

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Speaker 3: I could never paint.

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Speaker 2: I'm going, what significant idea am I coming up with?

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Speaker 4: I'm looking at the garden that's lovely, but it's not

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Speaker 4: really significant.

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Speaker 3: So it stopped me, stopped me stopping.

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Speaker 4: Then I met to Cooning and I asked him about

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Speaker 4: what one of his paintings was and he said, I

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Speaker 4: don't know. It looks like a cut hut. And I

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Speaker 4: just thought Jesus, and it blew my mind open. In

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Speaker 4: this context and in the song context, this idea of

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Speaker 4: it not having to mean something is quite liberating.

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Speaker 5: HM.

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Speaker 1: We can hear this liberation in the second half of

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Speaker 1: Picasso's Last Words. The song departs from its initial subject,

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Speaker 1: veering into samples from other songs on the album Band

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Speaker 1: on the Run. The first is from wings hit single.

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Speaker 5: Jet When did you know or did you ever know?

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Speaker 3: That Jet?

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Speaker 4: Was going to be an it when it came to

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Speaker 4: Jet or Ban on the Road, I had those of

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Speaker 4: tricks that I could use that.

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Speaker 2: One of the tricks with Jet is shouting.

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Speaker 3: That works.

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Speaker 4: It's always a good opener for any song. Choose a word,

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Speaker 4: you know, run, I'm going, You've got to you better

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Speaker 4: get out of here.

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Speaker 3: Run. It works. It's the shouting.

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Speaker 2: It's funny you should say that now, because I was

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Speaker 2: reading a review yesterday, I think of a new translation

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Speaker 2: of BeO Wolf and the first word of BeO Wolf

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Speaker 2: is something like what what? And they think, you know,

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Speaker 2: there are various ideas that's what that means.

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Speaker 3: But yet it's yet.

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Speaker 2: No, seriously that it was meant to represent. I think

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Speaker 2: at some level the first strum on the lyre from

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Speaker 2: the poet kicking off, but it's not a similar idea.

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Speaker 4: Jet was actually the name of a pony we had, yes,

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Speaker 4: a little little Shetland pony we had for the kids, Jim.

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Speaker 7: Jim.

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Speaker 1: The other sample is in the outro, which borrows from

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Speaker 1: Missus Vanderbilt, that upbeat track from Band on the Run

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Speaker 1: about McCartney's rejection of an aristocratic lifestyle.

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Speaker 4: We used to get asked when we're first in the Beatles.

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Speaker 4: Are you worried that you've joined the established? But we

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Speaker 4: didn't know. We thought it was a club, which it

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Speaker 4: was in London. I mean we didn't really know what

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Speaker 4: they meant. And we knew what they meant were you've

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Speaker 4: gone a bit society.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you weren't a desperate at or yeah you know

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Speaker 2: that's right.

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Speaker 9: And it was like, na, we're not, we're not. We

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Speaker 9: know a few posh people yet. But to me that

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Speaker 9: missus Vanderbilt embodied richness and she was a famous like Rockefeller.

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Speaker 9: If you needed to refer, you know, quiz programs and

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Speaker 9: give me five rich people's names, it would have been Nabelt, Rockefeller, Getty.

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Speaker 9: You know, there's certain ones you just know because they're

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Speaker 9: in the newspapers. So that was what she was.

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Speaker 4: And my idea is it's again, it's the same throwing over.

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Speaker 3: Of the rules. I don't want that.

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Speaker 4: I know it's money, it's rich andary, but what comes

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Speaker 4: with it is bothersome.

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Speaker 1: H The connection between Picasso's Dying Words, a French tourism manual,

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Speaker 1: a character based on a Shetland pony, and an American

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Speaker 1: aristocrat is not particularly clear beyond the context of the music,

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Speaker 1: the meaning is slippery, so.

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Speaker 2: They're bits from other songs. Has the notion of all

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Speaker 2: songs being one song all songs? Yeah, Well, I'm prompted

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Speaker 2: partly because in the literary sphere is strictly literary sphere.

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Speaker 2: One of Stevens thinks of his poems as being one poem,

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Speaker 2: the whole of harmonium. He calls it. It's all one thing.

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Speaker 2: It's he spent his whole life writing one big phone.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously they're discreet there by severate things, But

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Speaker 2: I mean, does it mean anything to you at all

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Speaker 2: that Stevens might have thought in those terms that you're

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Speaker 2: doing one song? Your life is about writing one song?

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Speaker 2: Or is that just too crazy and fanciful?

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Speaker 4: But you know, as a bit of a stretch for me,

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Speaker 4: because my stuff quite varied, and I think that kind

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Speaker 4: of suggests it isn't one song.

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Speaker 3: Right, It's a lot, right, a lot of them.

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Speaker 4: They don't neatly fit together, you know. If you've got

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Speaker 4: something like High Eye High next to Alan, it's quite

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Speaker 4: a difference.

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Speaker 1: Like many songs in McCartney's catalog, Picasso's Last Words doesn't

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Speaker 1: strive for cohesion. It brings together fragments to juxtapose them.

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Speaker 1: The edges between the samples are sharp. It's a form

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Speaker 1: of musical cubism, the very style that Picasso pioneered.

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Speaker 7: Hell Hell, Hell.

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Speaker 1: Picasso's last words drink to Me from Wings album Band

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Speaker 1: on the Run, released in nineteen seventy three. In the

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Speaker 1: next episode, Love.

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Speaker 4: I was being accused of just writing silly love songs

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Speaker 4: and was in danger of starting to buy into this

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Speaker 4: idea that you should just be a bit tougher and

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Speaker 4: a bit more worldly. But then ask me realized that's

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Speaker 4: exactly what love is.

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Speaker 1: It's worldly, a polemical love song to the skeptics. That's

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Speaker 1: next time on McCartney A Life in Lyrics. McCartney A

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Speaker 1: Life in Lyrics is a co production between iHeartMedia NPL

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Speaker 1: and Pushkin Industries.